SYSK Selects: How Immigration Works

of the Legend. Yeah, the classic podcast, classic audio. Yeah, look at us. Yeah, we were. We were called pioneers before on iTunes. Do you remember that? Then year one we're like the Milton Barrel of podcast and now we're already classics. I wonner. Next year will be on the way out if you just die already, husbands, I think that's what it will be. Come Well, you're referring to we were We were named the number seven podcast of the year in the classics category. We were ahead of

or behind our Glass. Well as always, you know, I've I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't feel comfortable being ahead of Ira Glass, you know, I just feel like I'm walking around with the big target on my back or something. No, no one does, No one is stands alone. Yeah, so Chuck, Yes, I wishould probably mention um while we're at the top of the podcast. Facebook stuff you should know and on Facebook, come join us. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, give

yourself a little Christmas treat. Yeah, and uh on Twitter, follow Josh's Twitter feed s y s K podcast. Yeah, but you run the show there for the most part. You do a good job of filling in the blanks. Buddy, rarely, but thank you, Chuck. Josh. Hey, have you ever heard of the Dream Act? I have as as of uh, I mean not as of today, but today big news. Yes, the Upment, Relief and Education for Alien Miners Act, which is basically like s CHIP for illegal immigrant kids, but

without the health care right right, Yeah, yeah, um. It was passed in the House today by a vote of to sixteen. And uh, that's kind of a big deal. It moves on to the Senate. Well, it's getting a little hinky because the Senate may kill this thing. Oh yeah, Well, I mean this is like breaking news, so who knows what's going to happen. In the next hour after we record.

But that's the word on the street. Wow. But basically, this, uh, this act provides a path to citizenship for kids who were brought to the United States as illegal immigrants and have grown up here. Well yeah, and who uh qualify in certain ways, like they've been here five years, they've attained obtained a high school diploma or a g e d. And demonstrate a good moral character, so they're not just

willya neilly handed out citizenship. And if you're a little kid right now and you were brought to the US illegally as a child, go star volunteering at homes. That can only help your case and the nursing home people will enjoy it as well. Well. This one guy they mentioned in here quickly, Caesar of Vargas, is of course they pick out like the one shining star as their example. But he's going to graduate law school with a three point eight g p A and wants to serve in

the U. S military, And potentially this is blocked. He won't be allowed to do so, no, which is you know, it's kind of sad. We need willing and able bodies, smart guys and gals, hard workers. We do need. I mean, actually, most of our immigration laws, as I understand from researching this article, um, are kind of structured around the economy. Yeah, you know, like our are the order of preference for the types of immigrants that we give visas to are

are kind of like how's your back right right? You know, feel exactly strong? Well, come on it. Yeah, Well they did say that the Dream Act UM, the Congressional Budget Office said it would actually cut the federal deficit by one point four billion dollars how and increased revenues. I would guess by adding people taxes and people to the workforce will increase revenues. That's what they say, at least over a decade. And that's with offering them tuition in

state tuition to college. Right, Yeah, yeah, that's pretty big. Okay, Chuck, let's talk immigration, shall we. Yeah? This is way more dense than I thought it was gonna be. I knew it was going to be sort of complicated, because becoming a citizen is is sort of complicated, but I didn't know there were so many ways to do that. We should say spoiler alert here, naturalization isn't even in this podcast. And it's that dense. Yeah, I wondered about that. There's

no citizenship classes, there's no nothing. The word green card doesn't appear in here either. Just immigration. That is correct, my friend. Remember Happiness, one of the characters was an immigration naturalization teacher. That's your favorite movie. We'll chuck. Let's start at the beginning. Okay, Back in the seventeen seventies, there's a guy named Samuel Ellis, and he had a little island in New York Harbor. Yeah, it was very important.

In eighteen twelve, it was an important defensive position. After the British left, we said, you know what, let's just use this to immigrant people. Let's just funnel them through here, build up a nice little building and change everybody's names. And that was Ellis Island. Yep and uh. From eight to nineteen fifty four, dude, twelve million immigrants passed through that tiny little island, and of our population in this country can be traced back to an immigrant from Ellis Island. Yeah.

And I think, without slanting anything or um leaning one way or the other, I think it behooves all of us while we're listening to this podcast to kind of bear that in mind, then maybe your relatives were immigrants at one point. Yeah, so, Chuck, let's talk immigration. How do you Let's talk legal immigration first. Yeah. Well, we should point out beforehand though, when he said that we should remember bear in mind that a lot of our

ancestors were immigrants. There are nativists that believe that, like, you shouldn't let any people into the country anymore, right, And those aren't to be confused with Native Americans, who are actually the ones who were here originally. Big difference. These are people who are descended from immigrants who are saying that we shouldn't let anybody in the country. Yeah. But I would encourage any nativists to attend a naturalization ceremony. That's all I'm gonna say. I've been to one, have

you really? Yeah? I worked on a little documentary on Jane Seymour's naturalization. What Dr Quinn medicine woman. Oh, she was naturalized. Yeah, I thought she made a documentary called naturalization. No, no no, no, she was naturalized And they hired a

camera crew to follow her around. And I worked on that and I went to a ceremony in Los Angeles and it was you know, it's easy to get down in this country when you hear about dosing citizens with LSD and other hinky science experiment human sperimentation and stuff. But you go to one of these things and it's a genuine reminder. And I don't get hokey like this much, but I was misty eyed for sure. Yeah. I mean an auditorium full of people at the Congress uh Congress Center,

what's it called? An l A Staples Center, the Staples Center, the Hollywood Bowl, you know, the Hollywood Bowl, Jerry Sucker's house. But all these kids and and uh and adults just uh, you could just see it on their faces. They were so happy to be citizens of the US and took, you know, said the allegiance and it was really really cool. Yeah, you're like, those people know more about civics than the

average person who was born here right now, darn straight. Alright, so let's go ahead, Jane Seymour Class act, Chuck, And before we move on, one of Dave Letterman's top ten signs you're in a bad fraternity. Every Saturday night is Dr Quinn Medicine woman Night. Is that for real? That's good? So Chuck, um, you're done. You're ready to actually talk about legal immagant. That's my mini rant against people that say close up shop. I like your rants. They're very

non offensive, thank you. Yeah. Um. There are a few agencies that are charged with um immigration, and let's make the distinction, chuck. Um, you've heard of immigration and immigration with an irony. So immigration with an eye means that you are going into a country. Immigrating means that you are leaving a country or exiting with an e. That's how I would remember. That's a good one. Um, I remember it like I am nauseous to you, Chuck, because

I make you feel nauseated. That's how I keep immigrant and immigrant. That's an interestingnemonic device. Do you like that? So it used to be I N S. Who is in charge of immigration? And uh, these days it's Department of Homeland Security. Right, pretty much ever since two thousand one in the Department of Homeland Security was organized after that, UM, I N. S is not. It's pretty much taken a

back seat, if they're even still around. And under the Homeland Security is the obviously the Border Protection US cups of Customs and Border Protection in the US Citizenship and Immigration Service, they handle a lot of the paperwork, right, Customs and Border Protection handles like the law enforcement aspect of it. Yeah, right, that Congress passes the laws, right, and Congress is up to there in charge of all

immigration policy. The president can have an agenda that he tries to push through Congress, but it's up to Congress. The one thing the president does have a direct hand in is creating refugee policy. And we'll talk a little bit about refugees. But I propose right here and now that we do a podcast on refugees at some point in time. Yeah, we'll handle immigration and we'll do refugees. Later agreed to layoff ue. Um, chuck. Yes, there are

plenty of different aliens. Yeah, there's the illegal alien if you've heard of there's the legal alien, the most famous one being sting in Englishmen in New York. Um. And there's a lot of other words that get bonied about. I get the impression that alien is not quite um acceptable once was. It's more it's just immigrant now. But it's not an offensive word. It's actually still a very

um it's a it's a legitimate word to use. Yeah, you have a resident alien who is your not assistant or national, but you have the right to live and work here. So um or nonresident alien is like if you have a travel visa you're here for you know, you're an Australian. You're allowed to live here for a little while. You're an Australian. Let's face it. Um naturalized, not to be confused with spiritualized, but naturalized means that you are a citizen. But you you became a citizen

after birth. You weren't a born citizen like Jane Seymour right class act. Yes, she's married to, by the way, Stacy Keach's brother, Todd Keach. Or was it Stacy No, Stacy Keach's brother Todd. No, it's not Todd. I can't remember. But that's her husband who's a filmmaker and he made the film about her becoming a citizen. It's awesome. Well I started bring that up. So basically they rode off about six months of their life. Yeah, and he is he acted for a short time. He was in vacation.

Remember when the officer pulls him over for killing the dog, dragging the dog. Yeah, he that's him. That's him, James Keach. Really okay, full circle, Yeah, that's good stuff. Checking all right, Um, there is the the end all be all of before being naturalized, the lawful permanent resident, which is basically like kick back, relax, get a job, have a drink out, do whatever you want, just just start. Just apply something here or there. But you're allowed to live here for

the rest of your life. You're not necessarily a citizen. Don't try and vote, don't you dare try and serve on a jury, right, right? Right? But pretty much everything else right? So how do people get here? Well, you have to apply for a visa. That's the first step in all of these processes, is the old visa. Yeah, and and it depends on where you are right where you go apply uh yeah, or or where's what your

status is? Right? Well? Sure, if you well, if you are in a country, let's say you're Swedish and you're like, I am so sick of this minimalist furniture crap, right, I want to get to the U S. And then no crime and then in the gorgeous scenery and the women that are blond and tall, I want to leave all that, right, okay? Um, and moved to Detroit. Yes,

you want to move to Detroit. What you would do is you would go to the U. S. Consulate in Stockholm or wherever you find the closest one to you in your country of origin and say I want to move to Detroit. And after a few minutes of them like thinking you're joking, finally convince them you're you're telling the truth. They're going to start the process of applying for a visa, right, yeah, and this has to become a permanent resident. This isn't like a work visa or

a student visa. Those are all temporary, right, This is if you want to stay here forever in Detroit. Uh. And you but but this visa is not. This is a This is basically your ticket to get from your country to a port. Yeah, not even in the United States. No, which is confusing to me. And you're setting yourself up for an almost immediate um let down because the consular officer who's going to eventually interview you after you fill out your application can say sorry, we we don't want

your type in Detroit. Yeah, or they could interview and say great, and then you could have another awkward encounter when you get to the port of entry because they don't have to let you in either know, the the the the port authority agent can be like, no, no, I don't really like the looks of you. Don't like your mustache. I don't like that cable knit sweater. Go back to sweeten. I hate Ikia. Yeah is that Swedish? Yes? Okay, I always I think it's Swiss for some reason. Everything

over there that's over here Sweetish? Okay. So, uh, let's say you do get here to the port of entry. They will ask you a few questions when you get to that port of entry, like where you're from, what do you want to do here? Is anyone sponsoring you? Do you have family here? Or that kind of thing? Right?

And um, there are different kinds of visas. I get the impression that there's the like, wink wink, nudge, nudge, let the Swede in, he wants to go to Detroit, no criminal background, just let him in type of visa down to the um, we're not entirely certain that this guy is not a criminal visa so like really scrutinized him, right. Yeah. They give out four hundred and eighty thousand permanent resident

visas every year. That's for family. Yeah, yeah, if you want to join a family member that's in the country, right, sorry, right, So you maybe you got married to an American Joe or something like that during the war or Jane sure um, or you're you have dual citizenship. You're because you're you were born somewhere with two different parents, for parents from two different countries, so you have dual citizenship. You chose

the other country. Now you want to move to the US and your parent lives here, that's probably pretty easy, especially again with the economics, if you're twenty one and unmarried, right, because you're going to come over here, probably make babies with an American girl, so you're gonna take care of her, and you are going to get a good job, so you're going to spend money raising your kid here and you are going to do nothing but be an economic

driver rather than a drain. Yes. Well, put so if you let's say you do have a family member here, Uh, you need to prove your relationship. UM. I would guess beyond just saying I promise you it's my father, and uh, you need like you have to have an affida affidavit of support UM that says that you can support this person at a d above the poverty line, which is like nineteen grand it's not much. Basically saying you're you're not going to be a drain on the system. You'll

barely eat by if nothing else. But as long as you can eat by, as long as you can EATU buy. Then it's got to get approved by the U s c I S. Yes, again, the kind of the bureaucratic arm of immigration, right right, Then the Department of State checks to see if a visa number is available, Uh, if you might already be in the US, so you can apply to have your status change to that that

awesome lawful permanent resident. After you get a number, or if you're outside and you get a number, you go to the US to where they tell you to go. You go to the consulate and and finish the process there in Detroit, right and and no in in your country still or outside. So basically the whole key to immigration is is down the middle. Whether you're doing this outside the country or inside the country, there's basically two different sets of you know, it's like a choose your

own adventure book. Right, If you're inside the US, you know, turn to page thirty two, and then you know, apply for lawful permanent resident status. If you're if you're still in Sweden, go to page twelve and go to the consulate. It really does get a little convoluted. And I don't I don't think they make it hard on purpose, but I think you just hit We should totally see o A. This is in no way legal advice to anybody who is listening to US in Australia or Sweden especially. Um.

We're just using you as an example. If you actually do want to immigrate to the US, we hope this inspires you to do it lawfully and to go contract and immigration attorney, or at least do a lot of heavy lifting research on you know, um, Department of State, the Department of Homeland, securities websites or the very least by immigration for dummies, right, or I just don't guarantee is out. Just do something in addition to listening to

this show. Yes, that's what I say. Or if you do, just listen to this show and you you become a lawful citizen from it, we want an email from you about that. Yeah, in firmness on Facebook. Yeah that's so cheap. Uh So where are we here? The family sponsorship? Should we go through that? The preference? Yeah, we talked about

the preferences, right, So let's let's spell them out. Um, provided your at least twenty one parents, spouses and unmarried children of U S citizens, you don't have to wait, Like if they are citizens, you don't have to wait for that visa number. No, you can if you're if your visa is approved or if your petition for alien relative is approved. Um, you can just come on over and become a lawful permanent resident. Right. Yeah, and that's

if they're a citizen. If you're relative as a citizen. Right, if one of your relatives has made it over and has become a lawful permanent resident, Uh, then you can start to come over to right. But there's there's different preferences for that. It's a spouse or an unmarried center daughter again probably of one of twenty one years of age or older. Yeah, that's first preference, not too old, right.

The second preference is spouses of lawful permanent residents. Uh, they're under one under twenty one, unmarried children and unmarried children of lawful permanent residences I'm sorry, residents. Third preference married children of citizens, and fourth preference siblings of adult citizens. Wow, yeah, siblings of adult citizens. It's like, yes, you've got a

bunch of visas left over. You really need your brother over here, I mean really, Yeah, you're thirty and you gotta have your brother over here, right, or you're seventy, right, you know. So, yeah, it gets a little convoluted for sure. Um, chuckers, there have been There are other ways to do this. If you were the first of your family and you are starting on the path to citizenship, right, Um, there's some other ways to get in the country to get

the ball rolling number one. One of the best ways to do this is through a the diversity lottery program hit the lottery. That means that you are living in a country where immigration to the US is really not that bulky. Not a lot of people are not not a lot of Swedes coming over to the US. Necessarily

they probably get shot at it um. And so the State Department sets aside fifty five thousand visas visa numbers every year, and actually a hundred and ten thousand is what they really set aside because a lot of people don't complete the process. They basically say, hey, you want to come to the US. Not too many people are coming over from your country. We are the great melting pot over here. We're missing a little bit of your spice. So how about applying huh? And um, the Kentucky Consular

Bureau is responsible for this. And in two thousand eleven, Chuck, did you know that nine New Caledonians and one Lichtenstinian among the we're among the five thousand who came over really one Lichtenstinian, Wow, and one person from the French Arctic Lands, which I don't even know what that is. Uh. And if you're if you're lucky enough to hit this lottery, Josh, you can live here and work here forever. You can bring your family. You can bring your family, you can

bring your unmarried children. They're under twenty one, they're one, then they're on their own. Right, you become a lawful permanent resident who who can become a citizen under that. But it's like a huge not just like uh, it's like the express lane. Yeah, you're in there. Another way to do it is through employment, right. Yeah, I didn't know about this one or the next one. No, this is alem that this is how we got the Nazis

over here to start our rocket program through Operation paper Clip. Okay, Immigration through employment yeah, so yeah, that's when the employer kind of sponsors you and they submit a labor certification requests certification like that. I like that. What was the other when you said to the residences and I'm all over the place, out of faded or besides a Yeah, I'm all thick tongue today, UM an honor of you.

So you submit that to the Department of Labor. Uh. If it's granted, then the employer then files for a petition for alien worker considered by the U, S U S S C I S. Again. Then if that's approved, then you can get the immigrant of visa number from the state department and basically say go to work. But that's reading the little qualifications there. Uh, the the like

the types of workers, the preferences. Yeah, so you've got UM e B one which is priority workers, which is we need a rocket program to get to the moon fast. UM e B two is professionals with advanced degrees or persons with exceptional abilities. Basically, if you live in Bangalore, India right now, that's you. Yeah, you're coming over here. Problems UM EB three skilled or professional workers. I think a lot of that strobably a lot of yes, a

lot of roofers UM made their way into Florida. I imagine through that immigration status and there's EB four special immigrants. You know what that is? I have no idea. I can't even begin to think of what kind of job that would be. We need someone on the inside, if you know, if you work for the State Department, let us know what a special immigrant is. Yes, and then there is the what what you could call the yellow brick road to citizenship. Yeah, this is the the cherry

on top. Basically, if you have if you have some money you want to throw around and invest in in the American dream, you can. You can buy your visa. It's ten thousand investor visas every year made available. And uh, you have to there's you know, a few different ways to do it. You have to prove basically that you're gonna make an investment in a commercial endeavor that's approved and that you're going to create ten, ten or more

jobs through this endeavor. Right, and this is half of those half of those tenths and investor visas are set aside for this pilot project called um OH Regional Centers, which is basically it's a rural area struggling business. It's it's a part of the US that needs some investment. Need some new businesses. Right, Detroit, here we go again. Uh. You can also get that same visa, Josh, by starting

a business or purchasing a business that's not doing so hot. Uh. You can also Yeah, if you purchase a business, you can't just purchase that. You have to show that you can inflate its revenues by and keep everybody on staff, right, or the golden ticket. If you just have a lot of money, if you have half a million dollars, you can say I'm gonna invest that in a rural area. Or if you have a million dollars, you can just

invest in some other venture anything. And and the best part is if you invest that million dollars correctly, not only do you buy your visa, you might make a substantial amount of money back on your investment. Yeah. So that Yeah, if you've got a lot of dough, then you can become an American citizen. A come on in, it'spend your money, right. Yeah. And I have to say, I know you don't print out the pictures. You're missing

out on this one. There are some cool maps that are like inflated and and exaggerated and anemic and colorful. The United States based on based on immigration to countries. Interesting, and then there's also one where refugees are it's really neat. I recommend going and checking. The South and Central America are skinny. America is bloated. Yeah, that is cool. Yeah, and so so is the Middle East? Very very big, now is it? Uh? So let's talk about asylum. This

is pretty convoluted as well. Actually, yeah, if you remember one thing from this podcast, a person seeking asylum is called in ASSAILI that's it. Can we just stop there, yes, let's go to sleep. You know what asylum is, Josh, it's obviously it's when you're protected, um from if you're fleeing persecution from your country. You can come here and

say I need asylum because I live in Sudan. Do you remember in the Rules of War podcast we were talking about World War two changed everything basically brought the whole world together, uh, to say we need to come up with some like rules not just for war, but for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that was pastor

ratified UM. Countries of the world said, as a human being, uh, people have the right to seek and enjoy in other countries asylum for persecution, which is basically like it's some horrible stuff going on over here. You have to take these people if they come to your country. That's a basic human right to be free from that. Because there's

other parts of the world. Yeah, yeah, or at the very least in the case of the United States, you you can go to another country that we have a deal with an asylum deal, like, hey, you might like Canada, right. Not only that, if they yeah, if they come to the U. S and they're like, we I'm seeking asylum, we can be like, you are approved for Canada, and we can just take you there, like we'll give you a bus ticket even But yeah, it's it's kind of

funny because we have asylum treaties with other countries. It's interesting. Yeah, there are no quotas or limits on on this kind of visa. You just have to demonstrate a well founded fear for your life basically, yeah, of persecution in his or her home country, right, and you make that case um at a point of entry. So basically, if you're seeking asylum, here's the difference between in assyli and a

refugee again inside or outside of the country. Right. So let's say that you are fleeting fleeing Sudan and you've made it to Egypt, right, You're like, I don't really want to stay in Africa any longer. I really want to seek I want to I want to seek asylum in the US, but I'm doing it from Egypt, your refugee. If you leave Egypt and come to the Port of Savannah and say I want asylum, you're in Asia. It's just where you're doing that. But it's the same thing

for the same reasons. You're being persecuting your home country and you're seeking comfort and freedom from persecution in another country. Gotta you know you've heard of the Is it the Lost Boys of Sudan? The Child Soldiers? Why am I thinking? Is that the Lost Boys of Sudan? Right? It sounds right. Yeah. One of those guys works at Twains Indicator. He's a former child soldier I think so, that's and he was just very happy to be bussing tables at Twains. I'm sure.

I mean, everyone loved this guy. I don't know if he's still there, there has been a couple of years since I've been there, but uh, yeah, it was really neat. I mean he was you know, the news stories all over the place about these guys, and he worked there and was one of the U was the word I'm looking for. People loved him. He wasn't a mascot, but he was. He was almost like people would come to Twains and like everyone said hi to him and and he was he's very nice guy. Mascot's not the right word.

Save it for the refugee podcast. Um, because we're talking about asylum here. Yes, so, Chuck, if you're fleeing persecution, that's kind of specific. You can't be like, no one in my home country likes me, right, that's not persecution, right, No, no, No, it's um persecution based on race, politics, nationality, religion, membership in a social group. So if like the US turned on the nights of Columbus, they could go to like Europe and seek asylum. Or if you're in a book club. Yeah,

I'm not sure what that means group. Okay. Um. There are two apes of asylum gestures affirmative and defensive asylum. And from what I get, affirmative is when you arrive here at a portive entry. You within a year of being here, you submit your application, it's filed, and you have an interview. They call it non adversarial. It basically means doesn't take place in court, right, It's gonna take place in a friendly office and everybody's gonna be smiling,

and uh, they're not detained. You can live here while your case is being considered. Um, but you can't work. Isn't that right? I believe that is right. And actually, if you do this the right way, like the US is set up, we actually have an act from night called the Refugee Act, and if anybody can ask for asylum no matter what your alien status is, and we actually have mechanations, mechanization mechanisms will go with that one

in place, um to kind of hasten this process. So if you do this correctly, you can have this whole thing buttoned up in sixty days and be kicking back in Detroit. Yeah. If it never goes to uh before a judge and it just stays nice and affirmative and non adversarial, yeah, then you're you're in like flint in no time. Right. So basically what you want to do is within a year of landing in the US, you want to go to a port and ask for asylum. Yeah.

I would do that on day two. Why not after I've gone out and like, I seen what nightlife has to offer America. And then there's defensive asylum, and that is when you are you were in danger of being deported and you're trying to get asylum. Yes, so that's not like you came here and you filed all the correct paperwork. That means they're saying, now you need to go home, and you're like, no, I don't want to go. Right.

That means like if you waited two years, yeah, and you go, they're going to be like, oh, well now you're now you're in defensive asylum, dummy, Why didn't you do this a year ago? Right? Or if you weren't granted asylum, you can still try and get in through defensive asylum, right if you've gone through If you went through affirmative asylum and we're didn't ide, your next step would be going through defensive asylum, which is adversarial, meaning

it's in a court. Everybody's a little stern talking to you, a little mean, there's lawyers and all that stuff. Um, and we should say here, if you were caught without correct documentation, if you um forfeited your alien status anything like that. Uh, it doesn't just apply to illegal immigrants. It applies to illegal immigrants who can again demonstrate a quote credible fear of persecution or torture. This is asylum. It just applies to those people. Yes, right, yes, and

then there's expedited removal Chuck. Yeah, that's if you're busted basically with no documentation coming in coming in and you're just like, oh, I just thought you needed a plane ticket. Is that not good enough? Here's my luggage receipt? And actually this is pretty cool. The immigration officials, which I imagine include the customs um Agency, right, yeah? Uh, which

we did a podcast something, didn't we Yeah? Okay, um, they have to ask four questions of anyone they catch, uh trying to make it into the US illegally, right. They have to ask, oh, why did you leave your home country? Uh? Why? Or do you have any fear concerned about being returned to your home country? Uh? Would you be harmed if you were returned to your home country? Do you have any questions? Anything else you'd like to add?

It's actually in here. Uh so it basically anybody who wants to seek asylum can say I'm seeking asylum, and that's gonna start off this process. You're they're not gonna be like no, yeah, anyone. If you come here and you want asylum, you're at least going to be able to speak with someone about that. You're not just gonna be turned away at the door. But if you're busted getting in, you're going straight to defensive asylum. If you make it through and they can go to a port

right and say I'm seeking asylum, they'll that'll be affirmative asylum. Yeah, people like I was are probably like, what so confusing? Yeah, just go to the port and say asylum and that'll that'll kick start something interesting, that will start the process for sure. Uh. So we're not gonna talk too much about refugees, but um, the two thousand nine World Refugee Survey puts that number at about thirteen point six million

worldwide refugees. And in uh last year, God, that's up a lot because this article was written I think in like two thousand seven Silverman. Did you notice Jacob Silverman made a Bruneo reference. Um, he said that in two thousand and five there were nine point five million UM refugees at the beginning of that year. We're up to

thirteen million. That's what it said, and uh, last year, the US admitted sixty thousand refugees and the next closest was Canada at about eleven thousand, and then the assees said about nine thousand. Wow, there's refugees from Canada. No refugees that Canada said, once you come on here to the great right North, we'll let you know. They admitted the refugee. And that's you know, refugees are looking for

at the very least temporary protected status. And that's when you're like, all right, we'll take care of you for now and then we'll work this whole thing out in a minute. But you're safe. Is that all on refugees? And listen, do you do you want to do a podcast? Lot? Yeah, yeah, let's do one later. All right, Well, let's let's move on to the the sexiest business of all of this, Yeah, controversy, illegal immigration. Yeah, it's hard to say, obviously how many

there are. The numbers are kind of all over, but the Department of Homeland Homeland Security said that, uh, there were ten point eight million last year, which is down a full million from oh eight and that's the largest drop in thirty years. Yeah, well, of a pretty big recession times are tough here. I don't really think about that. That's exactly why I would still think that it would be better than being in Warez. Well, I'm glad you brought up Warez because I had a question about that

about se you, Dodd Warez. Do you like my Spanish? Yeah? But I was talking about war as the place. But go ahead, that's what I'm talking about that too. Oh is that the full name of it? Yeah, it means Warrez City. Like I wasn't talking about see you, Dodd Warez. I was talking about Warez City. I don't know who that dude is. But think about it, Like, I think more than six thousand people have died in July. This

past July hit the six thousand mark. Not have died, we're killed right, Okay, we're killed in war Is alone since January two because of the real deal drug war. Right. So if you're fleeing that across the US border, what's how is how can you not seek asylum? Is it that you could conceivably go south and deeper into your home country and be relatively safe? Yeah, I don't know.

I was hoping you would. Yeah, I don't know if asylum is just for Yeah, I mean that would definitely constitute a fear of fearing for your life, for sure, your persecution for sure. That's a good point. But that is that does kind of pose a problem for people in Warez fleeing north, you know, because the US is

right there. Warez is in the middle of a real drug war and it's a very dangerous place right now, maybe they don't think asylum, They just think, you know, across yeahs illegally and uh so, m I should clue him in. Yeah, And before we were you were talking about the controversy with illegal immigration, and we mentioned the recession. It seems like they're there. That's pretty much. I don't think too many people have problems with peaceful refugees seeking

asylum in the US. It's when economics are brought into it. There go nuts, right, Um, that always goes back to money, right, it does. But I think first we should kind of we're we're up here, like, oh, well, they're coming in down south and the border, right, Um, we should probably point out that for a lot of people who are

making these border crossings illegally, it's extremely dangerous, right. Silverman who wrote this um This article cited three thousand people who have died since trying to make the trek between the Mexico California border. Just Mexico California. Yeah, since we since we erected the fence. They're interesting. Yeah. Um. Also coyotes who you pay to get you across the border, especially if you're coming out of warez Um. They basically

double as drug transporters. They use illegal immigrants as mules, basically like, well, here, carry some drugs and I won't charge you. And the person will say, well, now, I'll just pay you, and the guy pulled out a gun and goes, no, you're going to carry these drugs. So these people are not just getting busted coming into the country. They're getting busted with tons of dope on them and

they're going to prison. Well, and then that gives the argument to the native of sand See, they're just coming in here bringing drugs. When it may be traced back to this one drug runner. It is making these hundreds of people smuggle in their drugs. And I think there's a lot of confusion going on. But yes, it's it's not good down there right now. No, it's not so uh.

Illegal immigrants as most people know a lot of times will come to this country, join up with some of their family who may be here already legally, and do jobs that Americans don't want to do for low wages. That happens a lot of times. It's not legal, You're not supposed to hire these people, but it happens. Yeah,

it wasn't there. Um, I think Colbert did it. There's a a group in New York State who were offering this farm hand like I think fruit harvesting job to anybody who wanted it, any American born American you wanted it, and no one took him up on it. Yeah, Well that kind of goes, uh to the guest worker program, which is something George w was in favor of and that has not been approved, but it's been bandied about

a lot. And basically that means if you can't find any American to do a job that you want, you know, to hire someone for, then hire a foreigner for about you know, to be a term limit like three years. Um, track them through the system, make them pay some taxes while they're here, and then give them an incentive to return home, like hey, we'll even give you retirement benefits which you can collect in Warrez after your term is done, after you've worked for three years. And I didn't know

this had a little digging. There was actually a program from ninety two to nineteen sixty four called called the Bracero Program that Roosevelt put in and it was basically that it was we need a lot of labor, so let's get some of the Mexican people up here to do this work. And it was a nice exchange. But in the middle of this and then we were like everybody get out. Well it was still nineteen sixty four.

But in nineteen fifty four, in the middle of this program, the I n S ran a program no lie called Operation wet Back What that was the name of it what? And their goal was to round up one thousand aliens per day and get them out and in the end more than one million Mexican nationals. We're taken back to Mexico courtesy the US, and not just taken back to Mexico, but like eight hundreds to a thousand miles deep into

Mexico to discourage them coming back to the US. Was this program headed up by Don Johnson, So no man, but that was the name of it. I mean, you can google it so anyway, that's part of our our lovely history too here. Wow. But um, until the guest worker program is for real, then it's just an idea

that some people say might not be a bad one. Yeah, Like, if they're here working, why not see if we can Because the reason a lot of people get mad, we should explain it's like this is fun, I'm watching you tap dance is a They're not paying taxes, is what the people against us say, and be they most times are sending money straight back to their homes. Yeah, so

they're not even putting money into the economy. Remember when we were in Guatemala, we found out that tourism number two, agriculture number three, remittances was the number one driver of their economy while we were there. Unbelievable. That takes a lot of people off, right, But I think that that's kind of a flash point, um for I don't think it encapsulates the whole thing. Is something the beginning and the end of the problem with immigration, No, of course

not right. Yeah, um, chuck. A lot of people say, you want a guess worker program path to citizenship, that is amnesty, and we don't do that in the US, right, yeah, actually we do. We've given amnesty to it a lot of people. Uh. In nineteen eighty Uh, Fidel Castro opened up the Merrielle Port Havannah and a hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans said see you later and showed up on mass in Miami. Amnesty seems to have gone in big waves here. Yeah, which is what a lot of

people say. That's why we shouldn't do it, because it just encourages people to come here illegally in hopes that there will be another big amnesty. Right. It rewards illegal behavior, It's federally mandated rewards for illegal behavior. I totally understand that argument. Um, it's a slap in the face to all the people who came here legally and went through this hard kind of grueling process legally. Um. And you

know all the other problems as well. Um. But I guess my point is we have given amnesty to people before and hasn't been the end of the country. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Um. And by the way, that that Cuban migration in that's what Scarface starts out. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And the Delta Force came to Atlanta actually because a lot of the immigrants were moved to federal prisons just to hold for a while until

the government figured out what to do with them. There was an uprising in the Atlanta Federal pen attention and the Delta Force showed up to quell it. Wow, well that's kind of what happened in Scarface, right when there are a big uprising in there in tournament camp. Yes, yes, great movie. So obviously we well we didn't really talk about the border patrol. We could do a whole podcast on that, but yeah, we did with customs, Yeah, we

talked about that. We can say that that that virtual border fence that was u controversial and full of issues, technical issues and delays. Obama put it into that in March and said this thing is we could use our money better than this. It's not working. But there is a fence. There's five and eighty miles of twenty one ft fence along the border, pedestrian and vehicle fencing. So I mean they're they're working on it. I don't know.

I mean, they can clearly never build a fence along the entire border, but the Minutemen Civil Defent Defense Corps is trying to do it on their own, not very successfully though. They talk a lot. But apparently they did a report on their fence and they basically said it's a cattle fence. I once interviewed the guy, the guy who founded that. I can't remember his name right now, but I talked to him on the phone. And you

just start him talking and he'll talk. It was very interesting, interesting conversation to just basically sit there and take notes on Well, I mean, I guess I see what they're trying to prove. But they were, you know, their goal was a ten mile stretch of fence, and come on, ten miles. I mean, you can walk that in an hour and go around it ten miles an hour. You're gonna have to be jogging running okay, two hours? Okay?

What do you walk about? Four miles an I walk about a mile and a half an hour because I stop a lot and lay down. Well you're a stroller? What else, dude? Um? Well, that's it. An amnesty you want to talk about some more high it's to amnassy. About a million Nicaraguans were given amnesty through the Central

American Relief Act. UH hundred and twenty thousand Haitian refugees were granted amnesty on mass and all of that is because of the Night six Immigration Reform and Control Act, which gave amnesty to about two point eight million illegal immigrants. And the president who did that, one Ronald Reagan. Looky there. Yeah, it's funny how things work. He was such a dichotomous president. Man. Yeah, okay, I got nothing else. I don't either. I think that's

the end of immigration. We don't ever have to talk about it again. Yeah, we can do refugees, We can do naturalization at some point, Yeah we could. Well just how about this, We'll just play selected clips from Jane Seymour's naturalization documentary and just be like, oh wow, alright, got that's something, and then we'll, uh, we'll make sure to get a out of you crying. Okay, so chuck.

If anybody wants to learn more about immigration, very dense article, well written by one Jacob Silverman who used to work here. You can type in immigration that's two MS in the handy search bar at how stuff works dot com, which means it's time now, or listener mail Josh. I'm gonna call this, uh shout out requests that we don't grant often, but we are in this case. Oh, this is a big one. Don't we get pay for these now? No,

in Karmen, we do, guys. My name is Eric Ericson, and I've been listening to your show for some time now. I was actually shown them by my friend. Uh, how would you pronounce I l O in a Elona? Alona? Elona? It's like Alona, which is why I'm actually emailing you guys for her birthday this year. I'm trying to do something really, really special. I've been emailing her favorite actors and musicians to see if they could send an autograph

or a short message. So far, I've gotten messages back from Andrew Bird and of and Priscilla On who was another singer who I don't know, and they both got back. So I felt that's the only reason I did this. I thought, well, we can't be the jerks who don't do it. Do you know how many of these we're going to get? Now? No, don't bother. We're gonna do like a happy birthday segment. I figured it'd be really awesome if you two can maybe give a shout out

to her and the listener mail sections. So that's what we're doing here, Eric. It would mean a lot to me if you could do this. It doesn't matter when he didn't tell us when her birthday was. I'm just hoping she doesn't listen to it before I get for the rest of the things. And he still doesn't tell me when her birthday is. Huh, So we're ruining this for you, Elona that I'm very sorry. If you get back to me sometime, it would be super awesome. And uh yeah, I just want to tell you U why

Alona means so much to me. So that is very sweet. Eric with a c K and I hope, I hope this gets and whatever you're seekings then Eric with the c K. You can't trust Eric who spell her names of the C and A kay, it's one of the other. You should just throw a T on the end of that. Just today, he's very middle of the road, I'll bet yeah, so you can see your side, but I can also see your side. I'll bet this immigration podcast just made

his head exploit well. He can clearly neither one of them are going to get through this, so I'll just think that we blew them off. Well, thanks a lot, um. If you want to say happy birthday to somebody, apparently, it's the the border is open, everybody's streaming through. It's not let us know why we should say happy birthday to somebody. Wrap it up in an email and send it to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. For moral on this and thousands of other topics, visit

how stuff works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, Click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The how stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes.