SYSK Selects: Can Your Grandfather's Diet Shorten Your Life?

house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and I'm Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and I'm Josh Clark. And that makes this stuff you should Know? Right. Yeah, So this is our podcast. We've been doing it for a while, and um, are you welcoming new listeners? Yeah, here's another one. Okay, all right, and actually I'm pretty excited about this one. I've been wanting to do this one for a while.

You've been bugging me. Epigenetics do it. Let's do it. The cutting edge of research of human of of our understanding of life, not just human, of all life. My mind was blown. It's a pretty big deal, real big deal. So, Chuck, you've heard of the genetic revolution. Charles Darwin, he had a long beard. He loved sea turtles, that kind of thing. He used a vacation in the Galapagos, right. He um wrote on the origin of the species, and it was

a pretty groundbreaking book, I would say. So it's basically what he came up with was we are driven by our genes. Right, we have genetic code and our DNA, and that makes us red headed, it makes us timid, it makes us courageous, prone to cancer, right exactly, and it makes us thick tongued alright sometimes yeah, and we are slaves to these genes, right, there's nothing we can do to alter and we get him from our parents.

But you know, if if we find out that over time, being thick tongued is um say, advantageous to human survival, we're all going to talk like me. But millions of years from now, at least hundreds of thousands, it definitely does. And I just look for it in the future, Okay, when we're all running around with robot bodies. Um, there was another guy, and actually Darwin, just to show off, once came across a type of orchid, right, the moon orchid,

I believe it's what it's called. And it had a very very deep um I guess pistol pistol or statement. I can never keep those things apart. And the nectar was down in there. And he looked at that flower and said, you know what, there is an organism out there, probably a flying organism that it has a probosist that fits perfectly into that flower. It was a um hawk moth. And sure enough a few a few years later, at some point in time later, they discovered the hawk moth

and it was pretty much literal really made to fit. Right. So there's another guy named Jean Baptiste Lamark, who I know you've heard of as well, right, all and all his lamarky and stuff. Right, he was he was about sixty to eighty. He was working about sixty or so years before Darwin. He had his own ideas based on giraffes. Right. Yes, he said that giraffe's next grew to reach the food, but it was just over the course of a few generations, right, right,

And that's kind of flies in the face of Darwin. Yeah, sure, who said it takes hundreds of thousands of years with this stuff called epigenetics that we're about to talk about today. Suddenly people are starting to go back and look at Lamark, who was kind of dismissed as a quack. Yeah, um, and say, you know what, Lamark may have been right in this one. Yeah, prepare for your minds to be melted. Let's all I have to say. Let's talk about epigenetics,

Chuck and go. Josh's first talk about the genome. I heard a computer reference analogy that I thought was was pretty spot on. If you think of the genome as computer hardware, then the epigenome would be the software that tells the computer what to do and when to do it. But in this case, the epigenome tells your cells what to do, what kind of cells to be, when to activate or deactivate. So, like I guess every cell or yeah, the d n A in every cell in the human

body has the exact same DNA. Yes, you have like half of your mother's and half of your father's and it comes together and gives you your d n A. Right. Um. And if you look at the DNA and every cell from a uh, the kind of cell that makes up your fingernail, what would that be a carat in a site okay, to a sperm cell, right, very very specialized type of cell. They all have the same d n A.

They have the same genes in there um. But what makes them different and what makes a carat and a site and a sperm cell those things are the the tag on those genes. So some are turned off, some are turned on, and in a specific combination, you have either a kratinosite or sperm cell, or a neuron or a cell that makes up your eyeball, all of that stuff. Yeah, So it's essentially it's a chemical tag that literally changes

the physical structure of your genome. So it'll bind tightly, let's say, to an inactive UH gene make it unreadable, or it'll stretch out an active gene and make it really accessible, physically changing it. And epigenetics means above the genome because these tags, these they're called methyl tags, which is what one hydrogen and two carbon carbon and hydrogen bundles. Yeah, okay, so it's a group. It's a really simple um compound um.

But they they they attached to the gene and a place where other proteins or enzymes normally would attach to activate it. So basically what they do is block a gene from being active beaded, and they can silence them. Yeah. So it's like a light switch. Literally you can turn off sun jeans and turn off others. Um. And the uh, the honey bee actually is is a pretty good demonstration

of this. Did you read about honey bees? Okay, so you've got a worker bee, right, which is a sterile, kind of mindless dumb bee that just does what it's supposed to do, no offense agreed. Hey, I'm all down with may Day all right? Uh? And uh with um a queen bee, you have this, Uh, First of all, she can reproduce, she goes and kills other rival queens, she does um kind of all sorts of other stuff that a worker bee isn't capable of doing. Um. And

what they found was a queen bee. Queen bee larva are raised in this royal jelly, right, which worker bees secrete from their their heads. It's a nutrient rich jelly, so the larva grows in it. And what they found, Yeah, it sounds kind of good, doesn't it, just because of the jelly part. What they found was that um, the royal jelly has it adds a methyl tag to the queen bee Larva's d n m T three gene. And

this gene is like literally the on off switch. If this gene is on, it goes to the default worker. Be right right. If it's off, then all the genes that that make a queen be a queen bee are able to be turned on. Crazy, isn't it so? Epigenetics happens in bees as well? And mice. Yes, the they've done a lot of studies with mice. Obviously in the a goody gene in these mice, and they would they experiment with um with these mice affecting basically turning on

and off the epigenetic switch. So an unmethylated gene would affect the mouse's size and weight and then and then coat color. It makes them real fat and like yellow, yeah, instead of skinning and brown. Have you seen one of these things? Yeah, they're huge. They should all be named Wilburg. The cool thing is though they showed the difference between

the skinny brown one and the fat yellow one. But then they also did experiments where they did half and half, like turned on half of them and turned off half of them. And they literally showed him in a sequence. I don't know if you saw this picture, but they went from fat yellow to skinny brown, and in between they got thinner and with spotted coats along the way, crazy like yellow and brown spotted coat. Yeah. It's that specific. Yeah.

And the one of the ways that they have found that they can manipulate these what is it a goody Yeah, the goody gene and these mice that I guess our bread specifically for this gene to be easily observed or something, Yeah, manipulated to UM is through diet. Right, So they've actually taken a goody jeen mice mothers who are pregnant fed

him a bunch of UM B vitamins in their diet. Yeah, and soy right, yeah, soy is a really easy easy grab for B vitamins, U belief, right, UM fed these these pregnant, big fat yellow, ugly mice B vitamins and their kids came out that that healthy, skinny brown right. Um. They had identical moms with the same like a goody gan, same upbringing, same everything, just fed them in the normal mouse diet without vitamin B and they had the big fat yellow kids. So diet is a really big factor

in epigenetic changes. What Chuck and I are talking about right now is that science has found evidence that you can change the genetics of your children by eating be vitamins or by being abused when you're pregnant. Well, see, that's what gets me. Some of the diet like makes a little bit of sense, But the fact that an environmental stimulus placed on your mom or even your grandparents can affect your children or grandchildren something you didn't even

experience at all, it's kind of unfair. And actually, I have to tell you, the more I study this, the more worried I am for my own child or children. Like. Really, what they're finding is the decisions that you make, especially at a youngish age, are going to affect several generations because these what you're doing is adding metal tags. What we're talking about is pretty much the definitive answer to

the nature and nurture debate. And what we're finding is both you have nature, which is your genes and they're very much active, but you have nurture, which is the environment. Whether it's diet, whether it's stress, um, whether it's lack

of exercise. Your body responds to these changes by saying, okay, all right, Well, then we need to if you're gonna lay around and be fat, then we have to we have to deactivate this Chaine, we will punish your grandkids, and your grandkids who are trying to be normal are going to be fat little kids that live you know, shortened lives. And this is where it came from, right, Chuck, Wasn't there there was a study in Sweden that kind

of broke this ground. Yeah, didn't they find that? Um, it was a very isolated group of people in Sweden and at the time they were very isolated at least where they couldn't get help from the outside world, very very readily. And I think they studied the famine in that right, Well, they the famine affected the generations afterwards. Well, they had like feast or famine. It was like an

agricultural town. And they looked at these agricultural records that this town kept for some reason, like really detailed records for throughout the nineteenth century, and some years there was nothing and people starved death. The next year there was everything. And they found that the grand parents, the grand fathers, um who feasted and starved within a year of one another. Um, they're grandkids lived in average of thirty two years shorter

or less. Then it's the same the grandkids of the same people who didn't have that kind of feast or famine experience in the same town right around, with the same socio economic conditions. So yeah, that's three generations right there, right. Yeah. Did you hear about the Angelman syndrome and the Prodavadi syndrome? No, totally they I saw that. Actually, it was a PBS documentary. The it's called The Ghost in Your Jeans. Did you watch that, dude? It's on YouTube. It's in five, I

think five or six sections of ten minutes apiece. It's a full show. Mind blowing. Uh. They found that there's there's these two day print syndromes and I won't get too deep into what they are, but Angelman syndrome and uh Proda Villi syndrome is what it's called. And they found the sons Italian prodovity. Sorry I dropped the ball there. Uh. Basically, what causes each of these is a missing piece of

DNA and it can cause two different disease. Where they found it and cause to these two different diseases, they're completely unrelated depending on which parent it came from which missing uh, part of the gene it came from. So basically, uh, it's as if the gene knew where it was coming from. Like gene imprinting, the gene had a memory that, Oh, it came from the father, so you're gonna have Angelman syndrome, or it came from the mother, so you're gonna have

prida evilly. Right, And this is a relatively recent discovery. We were talking about them looking at agricultural records of the u nineteenth century in Sweden. That was a doctor named h Dr Lars olov Bygren, but he was working in the mid eighties and he didn't really start to lay the foundation of epigenetic research until the mid to

late nineties. So this is a very new field. But what they're finding, and what Chuck was just saying, is that your parents can pass on these epigenetic changes that happen within themselves, right, Um, and your grandparents can too. But this isn't supposed to happen. What happens when an egg and a sperm meat, right, and it's like, hey, here's half, here's my DNA, here's my DNA, and then

they get together. Um, there is actually a process where these specialized cells go through and basically clean the d n A of methyl tags. But they found that not all methyl tags get cleaned off, so diet can affect certain genes. These methyl tags can be passed down UM and and with abuse as well. H Have you heard about PTSD? Yeah, we passed down. They covered that in the in that special as well. They did tests with pregnant women who were in New York at the time

of nine eleven. Did you hear about this one? Yeah, that's really recent study, right, Yeah, And they basically found that pregnant women the experience that were pregnant at the time the Towers came down and experienced post traumatic stress disorder. They found that their babies had lower levels of cortisol just like their moms did, which helps you deal with stress,

helps you how you deal with stress. So these little babies inherited, basically inherited post traumatic stress disorder from their

mothers in the womb in utero and um. Cortisol it's a hormone and it would be produced by a gene or expressed by a gene, and how much or how little is express depends on whether that gene is silenced whether it's altered, and that alteration comes from methyal tags which can be passed down, So PTSD can be passed down, right, Yeah, and they're what they're speculating now that and this is obviously speculation because these kids are still young, but they're

speculating that it's gonna happen to their kids as well, and that's gonna be the real like gold nugget right there there. They do go away eventually, they think mental tags, well, they have in like fruit flies. With fruit flies, it's like four generations, but fruit flies have a generation every like five minutes and now um, and then I think with mice it's like forty generations or something like that. Um. And with humans, they expect it to be somewhere around

three maybe a few more. And then yeah, because what's happening is our bodies are responding to environmental cues to change. And then after those environmental cues go away, the body's like, okay, well we can go back to normal now and get rid of this methyl tag. So we've got nutrition. Right. You are what you're You are what you eat, You are what your parents eight, you are what your grandparents eight?

Uh and then there's um things like stress. Yeah, which parenting right, And Yeah, I think they found with mice mice mother's it didn't nurture their kids, um or nurse their kids, uh, raise kids, produced kids that were kind of jumpy and um, I guess had the mice version of PTSD. And they theorized that the the body had undergone an epigenetic change to prepare these mice for stressful life where they need to be on guard. You know which, if you think about it, chuck a blog post about this,

it's possible. What we call PTSD is an epigenetic change that says you live in an environment where you can't just you can't relax, so we're gonna make you jumpy, you're gonna be edgy, and you're going to have flashbacks so that you're always you know, on point. And it's the result of an epigenetic change from a stressful event. Yeah, and the same Yeah, I think you mentioned abuse earlier. They found that one out of every five suicide victims

was a victim of child abuse as well. So they're still kind of theorizing now, but they think there's a positive correlation are between like you said, stressful upbringing in an epigenetic change. So what else? Uh, well do you I mean? And we're gonna talk about the good What could be good about this? Potentially, yes, because it could be really good. We're talking about and it's still early going.

We're talking about potentially curing things like Alzheimer's cancer, um, mental disorders, uh, multiple sclerosis, you name its, thick tonguedness, potentially being able to cure this because you can't. They found that it's really hard to fix like a cancer cell. And so what the doctors are thinking now is it's really hard to fix a cancer cell, but it's a whole lot easier to turn these epigenetic switches on and off,

which may in turn help defeat cancer. Like you want to get a tumor suppressing gene going yeah, and then but you want to get a cellular growth gene turned down a little bit right like that, and that you just cured cancer. Yeah. This This one doctor put it like this. He said that, Um, it's almost like a diplomacy instead of a war, Like you'll go tell the cell, hey, you're a good human cell. You don't need to behave this way. You should not be behaving this way. Yes,

it's called as a citadine. It's good to me as a citadine. It was originally marketed for UM something else entirely, probably Alzheimer's. Everything was uh, and then they come up with they figure out that it's actually UM turning down these growth cells are these growth genes, and they say, hey, how about we use this for leukemia? Right boom being there you go. Yeah, people all of a sudden in remission where they hadn't been before. So it's pretty pretty startling. Yeah,

it's still in the early stages though, right. Uh. The other thing too is you can you can. It's it's easier to fix the epigenome. That's the good news. As we move forward, it's also a lot easier to mess up your own epigenome diet and smoking and things like that. Yeah, there was a the guy who was studying Sweden hooked up with a guy who proposed, uh, the entire field of epigenetics in and then they got together with another

researcher who was running that. You remember the framing Framinghamton Farmington. Is it farming him, farming him, framing him, framing him that the Massachusetts study, the Heart study Umber forty years long or something, right, remember Great Britain's version of It's like the Avon Longitudinal study. Okay, so this guy had a friend who had access to these these files, and what they found was that one and sixty six fathers

in this study had started smoking around age eleven. Uh. And so they started looking at these these guys and found that their kids were shorter and fatter and just generally unhealthy or than other kids, even controlling for other factors as well. So smoking is a problem. Drugs are a problem. Cocaine addicted mice past memory problems onto three

generations of their offspring. Yeah, it said that cocaine, especially tripp triggers epigenetic changes that affect like hundreds of genes at the same time, which because memories just such a complex process. So don't do cocaine, no, and don't smoke. It's just a bad idea, especially at a young age. And Chuck, there's a project underway, you remember, the Human Genome project, completed in March of two thousand, which is

now that they're kind of like exactly. There was a did you read this time article at the end of it that the author is talking about the epigenome project. That's the big daddy, right, And he was saying that the Human Epigenome Project is going to make the Human Genome Project look like the homework that sixteenth century school kids did on their advocate this. Think about this. What they found in the Human Genome Project is twenty seven

thousand genes that are mapped. Right, Um, just just fiddling with these combinations increases the map that needs to be created exponentially, right, Like Domino's Pizza has twenty seven ingredients they produces they do. I went counting, the produces eighty eight million different combinations from twenty seven I imagine twenty seven thousand ingredients. How many different combinations is that produced?

This is the scope of the Human Epigenome Project that's underway. Now, what what about Pizza Hut with all their like stuff crust and eat it backwards and the ingredients are underneath your pizza and probably even more stuffed. Yeah, but I think Dominos has more pizza because they've got like the Philly cheese steak one, and they have like the cheeseburger, the bacon cheeseburger, which yeah, they did, like the Ruben sandwich pizza that would be very good, would be good.

So epigenetics is changing everything I think, and it's core. It's going to it's going to point out that all of our understanding of medicine is just an odd way of describing an epigenetic change, you know, like psychology, psychiatry. I predict that our future and complete understanding of humanity is going to be a combination of sociology and epigenetics. So we we thought we were onto something with me

or neurons, but forget what we said. Not just kidding, Actually I think that you could probably explain that epigenetically and with sociology as well. Have you heard of this guy, Dr Bruce Lipton. He is, he's got a documentary out called The Living Matrix, And at first I was reading and I was like, Wow, this guy's really onto something. But then I started reading other people saying this guy's a quack. Oh yeah, yeah. He basically he's a big

epigenetics guy. But he thinks that your brain can essentially change your genetic expression by manipulating the epigenome, like concentrating. He thinks the placebo effect could potentially be explained by this, and like spontaneous remission and cancer, spontaneous combustion. Spontaneous remission obviously is when you go into remission with no known cause,

not from you know, any treatment. And he says this is explained because you're you have a profound change in your perception of your life and what life is all about, and that can potentially alter the epigenome. Well, you could also make a case that this guy, what this guy is talking about is decreasing stress, which stresses freaks havoc on us and could create methtyal tags and alter gene expression. So maybe he's just using a quacky way of describing

lowering your own stress levels by increasing self confidence. It's interesting when you see these people, though, and you watch a YouTube video and you think, oh my gosh, that's the secret to the future, and then you see all these other people go that guy is such a quack. Yeah, but at the same time you could you could say, well,

maybe those other people are unmagenitive. Good point. So if you want to learn more about epigenetics, I strongly recommend University of Utah's website it Um, have you been on a chuck Why didn't you recommend that to me? Did you see it? I don't think so. I did. There's like a month ago when uh, yeah, you can turn up gene expression turn it down. It's like, um, a lot of foods that you should eat if you want

to alter yourself epigenetically, especially if you're pregnant. Or go to YouTube and watch the Ghost in your Genes PBS. It is literally mind blowing, well not literally, people always say literally. It's figured talk about changing your genetic expression. And if you want to read some very beautiful prose on epigenetics, uh shock full of flight simulator references, read uh how epigenetics works by typing epigenetics in the handy search bar at how stuffworks dot com, Which means it's

time for listener mail. Yes, indeed, Josh, Josh, you remember Sarah the amazing eleven year old fan it's not eleven anymore, who captured our hearts when she first emailed early on in the days of podcastings to do like she was one of the first fans. Actually, yeah, Sarah the amazing eleven year old fan is now Sarah the amazing thirteen year old fan. Gosh, I feel so old. Now. We shouldn't do this a while? Well, yeah, and we should keep like once a year, we should update people on

Sarah's age. And then when she graduate, if we're still doing this in five years, when she graduates college, we should go like a high school. Yeah, you should go to her graduation ors, we should give the commencement speech. She should I call valedictorian. Well yeah, and then the prince would be like, who are you guys? Can we get security in here? We'll say I'm the valedictorian. He's a salutatorian. What do you mean? Uh? So this comes from Sarah. She checked someone that's from time to time,

and she's still just as cute at thirteen. She's not all bratty now that she's a teenager. Hello to some of my favorite people. Today, I earned some strange looks from people about my knowledge of legos or Lego bricks. I also tried making a sphere of Lego, but I couldn't figure it out. Also, today's my birthday. I'm really excited that I'm finally a teen Yahoo. Do you remember what I asked for and what she asked for? She's got a blog now, and she asked if one of

us could comment on her blog. And I went to her blog and commented. And her blog is basically her and her little friend talking back and forth to each other about stuff. It got their eyes with hearts. No, well, I don't think you can do that, but it is really, really cute, and I'm actually gonna encourage people to go to her blog. I hope she gets mad traffic and her blog Josh is Sarah loves Australian commercials dot webs

dot com. And here's the clincher. It is s A s A r w h. There's no www right now and she missed spells Australian all over the place. Um she spells it A U S t r A I l I A n. So it's like OUs trail I N hey I A n right, so spell the whole U r l h t t P colon slash slash s A r A h l O v E s A U S t r A I l I A n c O M M E r c I A l s dot webs w e b s dot com. And I hope people come right there and check it out.

I hope so too. Um. So she turned thirteen, she says, by the way, can you please not tell Kristin, Molly or Katie that I think you guys are better than them. I think that would be kind of like bragging. It would be kind of like bragging, which is why we would never do. We would never tell them, and they I'm sure they don't listen to our shows, so they'll never know. And then she closes and this is Emily

just thought, this is the cutest thing ever. Well, so long, farewell, our al vetter saying goodbye, a do a do to you and you and you, and then in print the scene she says, in case you didn't know, that was from the sound of music. Ye, so long farewell. Yeah, and that's one of Emily's favorite Well, you should sing the rest of it. Do a doe doe do? You? And you and you so Sarah, happy birthday. You're awesome. You're a dedicated fan. We just think you're super cool.

And good luck with the blog if you do learn how to doe eyes with heart. We want to know, Sarah, Happy birthday to you. If you want to become a fan who's captured our arts, send us something interesting. We want to uh, we want another super fan and be a cute little kid. Otherwise you're not gonna culture that helps as well. Broken English doesn't hurt too true. Uh. You can send an email to stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands

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