SYSK Distraction Playlist: How Jim Henson Worked

was great. Yes, people, because we worked for corporation, we have things like sensitivity training, and in those trainings you get shown video examples of various forms of harassment and they are the best, most fun things to watch. Ever, they're pretty overt. Yeah, I could watch those all day long. I was wondering how much that production company made from that. You know they did, but like five little vignettes they I'm sure they paid the actors like literal peanuts. They

were bad actors. They were like, there's the peanut bucket over there, you can pay yourself. Yeah, the old The one that really got me was the Actually they were all really funny, but the one with the old guy in the in the factory loading boxes like a shipping warehouse, and they were giving the old man a hard time

about everything because he was old. Yeah, because he's old, and you know, he'd they were giving a hard time, so he'd, uh he was out of work for a while and they had to cover for him, the old man, and he had the back brace on, did you know what? I said? And he just looked on his face. He just kept getting a little more like pouty the whole time. I was like, dude, that's good acting. Stick up for yourself. Tell these young kids, you know what to do. The

back brace prevents him from it. Anyway. I just had to bring that up because I just think that stuff is so funny, And what's funny is people really do that, some of that stuff that you're like, what, there's some creeps out there. Um, that was a really weird set up for Jimson because he's the least harassing guy he was probably ever. Yeah, he certainly comes across that way.

He's a genuinely good dude. It's not one of these stories you hear about, like, uh, maybe some of your favorite children's books writers or cartoonists or something, maybe we're kind of bad people. No, apparently not at all. Um, he was not. Only so there's a lot of quotes in this article. John no John. I thought John Strickland wrote it. It turns out that's not the case. I'm surprised, um, because he's friends with or down with at least one of Jim Henson's kids, I believe lives here in Atlanta.

And but in this article, it's one of those things where everybody who compliments Jim Henson, who worked with him, they go to the trouble of complimenting him in a way that's not just like, oh, he was such a great guy. They all back up just a little bit because they're cognizant that that doesn't get it across, and they want you to understand that they're talking about more than just the great guy. Like, oh, he's dead and I'm not going to speak ill of the dead, and

he was a great guy. And that's a really thoughtless, polite, inoffensive thing to say. So, like Frank Oz said something like he was a he was a great guy, but at the same time, you know, he was a human, but he was still a really great guy. So like what you're thinking of as a great guy, get rid of that and actually replaced it with a genuine human great guy. Yeah, because as a filmmaker, he's a puppeteer obviously, but he was a filmmaker first and foremost, which a

lot of people kind of forget about. Um, oh yeah, that's a tough, tough job, super stressful, and you and I have seen it can make good guys and good ladies be real jerks and you under stressful situations. You know, it's it's it's a tough thing. There's a lot of money on the line each day, and uh, it's like everybody relaxed. It's just millions of dollars. But frank Oz, I think that's the point he was making, like even when he would get frustrated in a stress like that,

it was he was still a good guy behind it all. Yeah, and I read a read an I guess there was a book review of biography about him that that showed that it was all somebody said it was all just play to him, like work was play. Even though he worked really hard, he was able to commit himself like that to his work because to him he was having

the time of his life all the time. And apparently like there was just there was no line between work and play, which now that we've seen that sensitivity training could have gotten him in a lot of big you know, a lot of trouble, but he, Um, he just enjoyed the life that he had. From what I understand, love cars. He had like a lotus that was the same color as Kermit the Frog. Um, he had a role is Royce early on from his work. Yeah, Um, let's talk

about let's talk about the guy. Yeah, I mean, if you haven't, I just need to go ahead and say, if you haven't listened to the episode on the Muppets, Um, this is a what I consider just a more in depth part two on the man himself. But that's one of our favorite all time episodes and from feedback, one of the great all time fan episodes. Yeah, it was a great episode. Yeah, it was just a lot of fun. And so I hope this augments that one. I hope

you do it justice. So, um, that's actually one of the reasons why we can do this episode because we already did a Muppets episode and they tweeted about us. Do you remember the Henson Company did? Yeah, they did, which was they approved, got their actual approval, right, man. That was something. Um, the the Muppets episodes, it's own thing.

It's about Muppets. This is about Jim Henson. And it's appropriate that we're doing this because he was more than just the Muppets, even though everybody pegs him with the Muppets and like that is a huge thing. He was more than that. Like you said, he was a filmmaker, but originally started out as it a puppeteer, but kind of a reluctant one. Yeah. He was born in uh ninety six September James Marie Henson, m A U r Y in Mississippi, and his grandmother, maternal grandmother was a

painter and a quilter and a needle worker. And apparently it was a big inspiration to him, uh, just to seek out the creative in life, right, which is pretty great, um, and one of the one of the things he got into. Well, he was originally a kind of a fan of ventriloquism a little bit, but he he said later on in life that he was never he was never like obsessed with puppets or anything like that like you would have

expected him to be. And as he went to college I think in Maryland, he uh, he got into he started out as a studio artist, that's what he was studying. Yeah, he loved television above all else. From the time he was a little kid, he was just transfixed by the tube. He almost kind of made himself destined to be on

television by being obsessed with it. But um, he kind of stumbled into puppetry uh in college, and he started out as a studio art major and ended up graduating with a home X degree because home X was the only degree that offered puppet making courses. Yeah, he he majored h or He took a puppetry course at first, and h then a bunch of textiles and crafts courses, which is a great way to you know, start building and making your own puppets. Right. So, but he graduated

with the home X degree. But by the time he graduated, he was already extremely successful. The UM the Rolls Royce that I mentioned he bought in time to drive to his college graduation because he had already created successful shows UM in his town. Yeah, I think he was in high school. He was on the local TV station doing little guest spots and then uh, in nineteen fifty five, the show Salmon Friends debuted and that uh. You know, he also did work on the side making money with UM.

I think he did some of the like really cool concert posters of the day, really color colorful silk screen posters, and salmon prints did really well. Uh, but he still wasn't quite sure, Like I still don't know if I wanted, you know, I'm a filmmaker. I did. Did these short films really sort of weird abstract short films, live action experimental that totally experimental. Did you see the time Piece? Yeah, that one was pretty cool. It was great, um, and it's way and did you see the Cube? I watched

parts of the Cube that was did you see the end? Now? Oh, you've got to see the end. I skipped the middle because I was like, Okay, I get where you're going with this. Yeah, well we should just set it up real quick. The Cube was a show on NBC. It was a one hour show um in nine. The name of the show NBC did was called Experiment and Television,

and it was a different thing each week. And he had one week's installment called The Cube, which was a guy just stuck in a white room but other people could come in and out of the room, but he could not write yes, and he starts to go kind of crazy and it has the look and feel of a color TV ad um, like all lots of overacting and like Carol burnettesque characters and stuff like that, but the sentiment behind it and like the everything behind is really neat and it really gives you a good, an

eye opening example of like what Jim Henson was capable of, but also like what he was into, because you know, when you think of him, you think of muppets and Sesame Street in particular. Sure, and these are weird abstract art films, um not unlike you know, you watch like a Jim Morrison art film him from film school and it's kind of the same style. You know, that was what was going on back then. And he actually got

nominated for an Academy Award for time Piece. Uh. I think Jim Henson had Jim Morrison beat by a mile as far as experimental films. When yeah, I'll agree with you there. Um So, like I said, he wasn't quite convinced that puppetry was his future because he was a filmmaker and he was like, puppets are still kind of kids stuff. But post college he did the Old Tour of Europe, and in Europe, puppeteering is a whole different business. It was a lot more serious um and a lot

more um. I guess it was treated his art, Yeah, exactly, and he said, you know what, I Am going to give this a shot. Came back to the US, married Jane, and even though he and Jane separated, they never divorced. Oh really I thought they did. No, they never uh

fulfilled the divorce. They just stayed separated and um. Then he started making TV commercials and formed his own company in nineteen sixty three with I don't know if he formed it with Frank Oz, but he hired Frank Oz and Jerry Jewell, who ended up being obviously legendary puppeteers and lifelong collaborators of his. Yeah. Yeah, But he started out making a basically a puppet based commercial ad agency

in New York in nineteen sixty three. Yeah, and they weren't making funny commercials back then, so he was really pretty revolutionary at the time. And they, I mean, they

did pretty well for themselves. And one of the smartest moves he made early on was all of his contracts said that he retained the rights to any of the creations he made for these companies, So he was creating what some of the things that would later become famous muppets, Like the Cookie Monster was originally made for a chip maker, and it was this puppet that couldn't get enough of these chips. Yeah, he was the wheel steeler and he stole cheese wheels. Yeah, okay, that's what it was. Um,

And he ended up being the Cookie Monster. The reason he ended up being the Cookie Musters because Jim Henson retained the rights to that creation. That was he was a very savvy business guy too. Yeah, and he was he was using somebody else's dime, these these advertisers like Budgets to kind of hash out and form and make his muppets. Yeah. Rolf the Dog started out on Purina commercials and was later a sidekick on The Jimmy Dean Show in nineteen sixty three, which I remember that from

the Muppets episode Wolf was the first big Muppet. Then it's he's such like a bit character now that you know. It's just mind boggling to think he was the one that started at all, even before Kermit, before Big Bird, it was Rolf. Kermit kind of stole the show. I think. Yeah, we'll talk a little more about Kermit and where he came from, right, after this. Alright, so it's nineteen sixty nine and a very very big thing happens to Jim Henson.

He was invited to be on the pilot of a show created by the Children's Television Workshop called Sesame Street. He did not create it, some people think he did, but he did make his mark by creating most of the iconic characters. And if you were a fan of the old Sesame Streets back then, all, not all, but many of those little short films, the little claymation ones, are the live actions. He directed those as well, which is pretty cool. I never knew that. I think I

knew that, did you? Yeah, he was he was our restive. Yeah he was there. Rustivick, that's right. Russevick is ours. That's right. So um chuck. Uh. The whole thing that changed everything for him was Sesame Street. He's not a he wasn't a creator of Sesame Street. They's hired him on and they actually kind of went him over because remember, one of the things that Jim Henson always struggled with his whole career was he wanted to explore places that

puppets had never really gone to. In themes that they hadn't gone to at least not in the modern age. Um. But he was fighting against them not being taken seriously. Yeah, it wasn't like he was anti puppet by any means. He was or anti kids because one of the big reasons he signed on with Children's Television Workshop was their goal to educate kids meant a lot to him. But um, like you said, I think to merge those worlds successfully was a big part of his goal and struggle for

a little while. Russ Vic, by the way, made the little intersticial things for the stuff you should know television, the animation, which is why I reference him. So the Children's Television Workshop, which is now called the Sesame Workshop. From what I understand, they want him over big time. He makes all of these characters from like Big Bird, and I think Kermit came before Sesame Street, and he started out I think we talked about this in The

Muppet episode two. He started out looking really weird, not cool at all, like really kind of freaky, which is something that I now that I know a little more about Jim Henson, I think maybe he might have even

been going for. But one of the things that Sesame Street allowed him to do was to really kind of explore something that he'd long been obsessed with, which was television and where it converged with puppets, which was all new territory, and Jim Hanson was at the bleeding edge of it because if you think about it, when you go to a puppet show live, you know, you're you're looking at what's essentially a mechanism for hiding the human and there's just a little area that the puppet can

move around in. Yeah. So Jim Henson stepped back and said, Okay, the television is that little tiny area that the puppet can stay, can move around in. But it all so opens up the whole world for a puppet because you're using camera angles and there's editing, and it's not in person. Yeah, just frame out the people. So and again we talked

about this in the Muppet episode. He created something called platforming up to where the the puppeteers no longer had to like crouch down and in to to to maneuver the puppets. Because he was a tall guy, yeah, tall and lanky man. He was skinny. Those running shots and time pieces because he was in it, they were hysterics. Yeah, and he weighs about seventy pounds somehow big lanky legs. But um, so yeah, the performers could stand up, which

was a huge weight off. But at the same time, because you're working with cameras and stuff like that, and they have the whole universe to move around in and Jim Henson wanted him to move around as much as possible,

it also put him in some weird positions. Yeah, if you ever well, some people might think it's like kind of ruining the thing, but I think it's really neat if you if you just look up on Google images, mupp Spot, Muppet Show behind the scenes pictures, and it'll show the stage sets you know, like uh, six ft off the ground and all the people standing beneath. Um. I think it's awesome to look at. But some people don't, like you know, they want to keep that illusion alive.

So depending on what kind of person you are, either seek that out or don't. And we gave that warning in the Muppets Episode two, did we. Yeah. I think they're really cool pictures because you know, a lot of times they're looking at they're looking at video monitors. UM,

standing there contorted using both hands. Um, like the way puppeteers work together, to me is is just a miracle because they're acting as the puppets, but they're moving still moving among one another as humans underneath, which can be really complicated. We, in fact, we know some really really talented puppeteers here in Atlanta. Yeah, the Center for Puppetry Arts is yeah, I think the nation's largest puppet puppeteer organization. Yep. And that is where we had our TV show debut party,

premiere party. Like, it was a really cool experience, Like emmett Otter and the gang are right there on display. I think the Hintson and Kermit cut the ribbon for the grand opening back when it opened, and UM ended up donating like five hundred puppets and muppets to the Center for Puppetry Arts. So if you ever visit Atlanta, people always email us and say what should we do?

Highly recommend going and checking out the Center for Puppetry Arts. Yeah, because they have a museum with, like you said, emmett Otter, like a full size life size s yeah behind glass, scary as you can imagine. Yeah, But I was talking about Raymond Carr, our friend who I hate to keep bring up the TV show, but it all kind of overlaps.

He was a production designer for Stuff You Should Know on Science Channel, and he and his friends Brandon and the Gang are amazing puppeteers and they're doing some really really leading edge, like cool stuff here in Atlanta, Like these giant puppets operate, like, you know, fifting foot tall puppets operated by like six and eight people. Have you ever seen the spaceman that they do. No, man, it's unbelievable. It's really cool. It's like, I don't know how tall

he is. He seems like he's twenty ft tall. And they, you know, do these at parades and stuff, and it's just really really cool stuff. That's awesome. Yeah, but Hinton is a huge inspiration to them obviously. Oh yeah. I think anybody who works even remotely in puppets has got to be inspired by Jim Um. One of the other things that he came up with was that was based

on putting muppets or puppets on TV. Was using softer materials. Yeah, everything else is like up to that point, stiff wood marionettes, ventriloquist dummies, that kind of stuff. He used like foam and it allowed the puppets themselves to have more expressive faces, which was great for close up on TV. Yeah. Absolutely, and it also I mean now looking back, he just are like, well, yeah, of course, it's what puppets do.

That's what I know. But that was Jim Henson that came up with that, and it changed everything because it took something like, I mean, imagine, how do he dot? It was like, yeah, it's cool, you know, it's how do he doty? Or whatever? But whether close up or far away, he looked exactly the same. It was like a wood head with like a moving lower jaw, and you know, he gave you nightmares. But with the Termit,

the frog or something like that. The fact that he could have different expressions and react differently, and and his emotions could be shown on his face, that made him that much more popular, that much more approachable, uh, to people who were into him, absolutely, which is everybody. Yeah, yeah, show me someone who doesn't like muppets in any form. I get it. If you don't like it anymore, maybe, but your heart is cold and dead inside um for

a while. And this is something I don't think I knew. Uh. He dabbled on Saturday Night Live in season one, h Lauren Michael's got him a deal to perform some sketches and ultimately it wasn't a huge success and it wasn't the greatest marriage, but it was pretty cool that he was uh seeking out, you know, different avenues to get those puppets on television. It was and his big break came, um in nine he had it. He wanted to make

The Muppet Show. And he had a lot of trouble in the US still, even though he had his various successes on commercials and stuff. Uh. So he had to go to London and a TV producer named Lord lew Grade gave him a deal with grades A TV Studios and said, you know what, you can make your show. Uh, and the Muppet Show was born. Oh yeah about it being about a boom, that was it. That was it.

And um you can really see Jim Hinson's love of variety shows and just kind of um, well, just the stage uh in The Muppet Show because if you think about its set, the whole thing set backstage at a variety show. It's such a great idea when look back at it. Let me take it for granted a little bit because we were kids, but now as an adult, it's like, what a perfect way to frame this world is It's basically like thirty Rock or thirty Rock was

the Muppet Show? Right? Well, the Muppet Show started all that. Yeah. I don't know if Carol Burnett was before the Muppet Show. Yeah it was before, was it? So she did a lot of backstage stuff, didn't she. I wonder if who started that. I don't know. He hurts was more sketch, Yeah, but some of it was like backstage, wasn't I believe So I don't remember that. I'm hallucinating right now. They to have a good old fashioned variety show again, Yeah,

they don't have those anymore. Those are big back in the day, you know, like the host comes out and then their sketches and singing and remember our cabaret, No, it was in cabaret. What was it the episode we did? Oh burlesque burlesque? Yeah? Yeah, how that started out in vaudeville and burlesque cad that's where stand up comedy came from.

That was an interesting episode. Yeah. I missed those variety shows though, like the Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton and uh Cail Burnett all the van drell sisters, although Kenny and Dolly could just sit on a couch and stare at the camera for an hour and I'd watch that the best great entertainers too. Um. Alright, so where are we in our timeline? Well, Chuck, the Muppet Shows just hit. Things are going pretty well. They happened going pretty well

already for Henson. Apparently in nineteen seventy, rubber Ducky hit number sixteen on the Billboard charts. And for those who don't know, uh, Ernie is voiced by Jim Henson. So Jim Henson sang a song rubber Ducky that made it to number sixteen on the Billboard charts. And that was nineteen seventy, a year after The Cube, before the Muppet Show even happened, before Sesame Street even right, No Mystery was same year as The Cube. That's good, it's did a new touchstone for his life. The Cube yea PC

and BC. Um. So the Muppet Show was. It was a huge hit. It won uh you know, a lot of awards, It connored critical praise and won the hearts of children all over the world. But it was also for adults too. Oh yeah, I think that's why he was able to pull it off in Great Britain because they have better senses of humor. Yeah. And speaking of adults, Uh, he got into some more serious themes with his next great show, Fraggle Rock in I never saw a second

of that show. Oh man, really it wasn't an HBO. Yeah. It was one of the first HBO original series. We either had showtime or we didn't have HPOU. It was awesome. Fraggle Rock was great, and uh, the idea there is you had the the Fraggle Gang, and then you had well, you you had three different groups. You had the home of Doc who was an inventor in his dog's procket um. You had the Fraggles who share caves underground of Fraggle Rock with their neighbors the Dousers, and the Gorg's and

these gigantic creatures, uh that are in Gorg's garden. And the whole point of that show was to show how different types of people can live together and work together in peace. It was really cool. Didn't know it at the time when I was, you know, twelve years old, but what I was learning about was acceptance and uh.

He won three Cable Ace Awards. Uh. Five International Emmys, and Fraggle Rock was one of the first big hits for HBO as far as TV goes, great, great show, lots of great songs that I mean, he had every kind of like reggae, rock, country, bluegrass. He was all over the map with the music and Fraggle Rock, and he I mean, he wrote a lot of songs too. I think he wrote rubber Ducky. I'm sure he wrote a lot of the stuff on Fraggle Rock. It was

just yet another thing he did, was right. M Renaissance man Um the other show that he came out with in the eighties, in the mid eighties that I was big time into his Muppet Babies. I never saw one second of that, and I love that show. Yeah, we're just enough apart in age, where like certain things I saw you, I was you were too young for, and then certain things I was too old for. You know, it's weird though, I'm just gonna say this, so you

me and I are the same age. Her sister is like five years younger than us, and I used to love Muppet Babies. You mean's sister used to watch Muppet Babies. So you mean it was like, why were you watching Muppet Babies. If my younger sister was watching babies, now, she watched like Donna Hue or something like that. I watched the Muppet Babies. I'm not ashamed anymore to say, Well when was that in four? I was thirteen, so yeah, I was just I was starting to be a teenager.

Muppet Babies didn't appeal. I think it was on for like four or five seasons, so maybe I was watching it at the beginning of the series and it was watching it. That's what I've been telling you. Me and eighty four, you would have been what eight? Oh yeah, that's perfect age for Muppet Babies. So I think I think we just saw it on different ends of the series, is what it was? Is that what it is? Um? But have you ever heard of Ron Funches? Uh? Yeah,

the comedian. Yeah, yeah, he has a little bit about Muppet babies. That's pretty hilarious. Yeah he's awesome. I love that guy. Yeah, we saw him live. He's just a beautiful human being. Um, Muppet Babies was cartoon though, right right? It was not live puppets. Correct, it was cartoon, Okay, it was so cute. Were they just the regular muppets as babies. Oh, we'll have to watch that sometimes. Yeah,

and they like use their imagination. Like Gonzo had a thing for Indiana Jones, so he was frequently like exploring caves and like swinging on vines with the Indiana Jones Fedora on and that kind of stuff. Well, see, I would probably enjoy that, now you would. Yeah, definitely. All right, I'm gonna go get Muppet babies, chuck. He did even more TV that we'll talk about in a second. Okay, okay, okay, okay, and we're back and we're still in the eighties, that's right,

And you were talking about other TV. As we said, the man loved television and filmmaking, and so he got away from the muppets and puppets every now and then. Uh collaborated with Raymond Scott, who was an electronica pioneer actually on shorts called Ripples and Wheels that go h and he did that for the Montreal Expo in sixty seven. And I know we're jumping around in time, but we're just trying to paint the full picture here, not going

necessarily in order. And then he also did this cool thing called the Floating Face, which was a sketch that was on the Tonight Show, on the Mike Douglas Show in the sixties. Um, which did you see any of that a little bit? It was a little weird. It was like two eyes and a mouth and they were like these invisible wires and background images, and it was definitely a little more on that surreal tip, the Hinson

surreal tip, not kid oriented necessarily. But he got into the movies with the Muppet Movie, which was a big hit. It still holds up, man, it's still so great. And if you want to know more about that movie, into some of the cool facts from it, go again, listen to the Muppet episode. As a matter of fact, pause this, go listen to the Muppet episode and then come back to this one. Probably enhance your experience, agreed, or listen

to him both at the same time. But he followed the Muppet In nineteenade two he made The Dark Crystal, Yeah, which was puppets and it was based on m some drawings by fantasy artist Brian Froud, and um, there were no humans. It was all puppets. And I don't think it holds up as well, but it still looks pretty good. Well, yeah, I think it actually is probably better received now than it was originally. I think critics appreciated it, but it didn't do so well at the box office. But now

it's become like kind of a cult classic for sure. Um. And one of the reasons why it didn't do that well at the box office because audiences didn't quite know what to make. They heard Frank Oz who co directed it, Jim Henson, uh and puppets, and I think they went expecting the Muppet movie this and they they got the Dark Crystal instead, which is really dark. A lot of the like the theme is, you know, good versus evil, and it's the evil and it is really really evil.

And the stuff that happens to some of the puppets is, including really cute puppets, is really horrifying. And um, I read this awesome quote by Frank Oz and basically he says, like Jim thought it was okay to scare kids. As a matter of fact, he thought it wasn't healthy for kids to never be scared, so like he purposefully was trying to scare kids, and he wanted to take the tradition back to like grim fairy tales, which were very very dark graphics, good that's what he was going for

with The Dark Crystal. Yeah. I think it was ahead of its time for sure. If you look at some of these, uh, like some of the C G I movies today, I think that Dark Crystal was a precursor a lot of those. Uh. Then he went on to make the movie The Labyrinth with Bowie, right, Yeah, David Bowie and a very young Jennifer Connelly. Now that was

a legend. Okay, um, good movie. But this was written by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame and then rewritten a bunch by a bunch of other people, including executive producer George Lucas. Um. Labyrinth was okay, not bad. Again, not a huge hit for Hinson though as far as movies go. But he was still out there exploring these cool fantastical worlds and fantasy worlds. And he still had

a lot of credit. Um, even in the late eighties. Uh, if you think about it, his heyday was the late seventies early eighties with The Muppet Show, the Muppet Movie, and then after that it was like, yeah, I'll try this with Jim Henson. I'll try this with Jim Henson. Um. And even even still he had like a He was on a pretty eight streak and at the end of the A d C had two TV shows on the Jim Henson Hour and Storyteller. The Storyteller, Yeah, the Jim

Hinson Hour. He was always pushing the boundaries. The Storyteller looking Back Now, I'm sorry, Jim Hinson Ower looking Back was really different from what you were getting at the time because it was it was all over the map. You had certain shows that were like, you know, four or five sketches in one and then three of the episodes were full on one hour little mini movies from yeah, from beginning to yeah. That's a good point actually. Um. One of the little mini movies was called dog City,

which was great. It was narrated by Rolf and it was I remember watching this. It was like a film noir gangster thing with puppet dogs. Uh and the main character, A s U was the guy who did Elmo. Kevin Clash did the character of a s U and that was fantastic. I think Dog City went on to be a TV show in its own right too for a little while. But it was really good. I mean, it's total like gangster crime, film noir, but it's you know, Rolf the Dog, the Gang. I love it's really cool.

Um the Storyteller I hadn't seen before. I was, I guess aware of, but I don't know why I wasn't watching it because it would have been like right there for me because I would have been twelve. But I watched one today and it was really good. It's like human um puppet interaction, which is and it's just seamless.

Like There's one of the things from studying this that I've realized is like we take for granted and expect our puppet human interactions to be so seamless that we don't even realize that we're looking at puppets right then. And the reason why we expect that is because of Jim Henson and the people he worked with in and inspired to work so hard at creating that illusion. Well, yeah, the illusion that these are living, breathing things. Uh, he would go I remember Kermit as guest on talk shows.

He wouldn't go out as Jim Henson. He would go out as I mean, he did those appearances as well, but Kermit the Frog would be a guest on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson or host or host the night guest House, The Night Show and Larry King. Yeah, and it was all a part of this um goal of making these real people or real living things not people. Yeah.

Apparently somebody who was working with Jim Henson was I guess the director of the Muppet Show would be giving Jim notes on Kermit, and Jim would just respond, like, let Kermit respond, and the director said, eventually you're just sitting there. You turned and you address Kermit like he just forced you into like interacting with the puppet, even during a note session. Yeah, and probably without feeling silly

or stupid or anything. You know, it probably seemed like a totally normal thing to do eventually once he forced you to do. Uh. He also pioneered the Henson Performance Control System and won an Academy Award for that, and that was a remote control system that helped puppeteers out. So he was always pushing technical, visual, um stylistic thematic boundaries as far as he could UM, and they didn't always work. You know, the movies weren't aside from the

Muppet Movie, they weren't the biggest hits UM. The TV show a couple of you know, neither one of those lasted very long, but I think he was. He was just intent on doing something different he uh, and he did too, and he died in of us staff infection. Organ failure brought on by a staff infection. Did you know that? Yeah? I think pneumonia had something to do with it, too, didn't it. Not that I saw, I really I saw organ failure caused by a group a

strep infection. I'm sorry. That's staff. Very sad. And if you're ever in the mood for a good cry, watch the Jim Henson memorial We're Big Bird sings It's not easy being green. Yeah, tough stuff people. His children, His legacy lives on through Jane, his wife, formed founded the Jim Hinson Legacy to preserve his contributions chairing with the public, and like I said, he donated five puppets to the Center Puppetry Arts and uh. There is also the Jim

Hinson Memorial in Muppet Museum and traveling exhibits. And his sons and daughters help run his foundation, and some of them are themselves and run the company. The company has changed hands a lot um. I have sort of the boring history. When he was still alive, he was going to sell it to Disney for a hundred and fifty million because apparently he believed in Disney's commitment to characters, so he thought like that would be a good place

for the Muppets to live. Yeah, and Disney went he bought it, but he did not get that deal finished. But it turns out a hundred fifty million with chump change because in two thousand his children sold the entire company, including the Sesame Street characters, to a German media company for six and eighty million, And then I believe that company fell on hard times and they bought it back in two thousand three for eighty four million. Isn't that crazy?

The Hanston children are smart. And in between all that there are various exchanges of percentages of steaks with other companies and rights of certain characters. Uh, it's a little doll to go over all of that, but needless to say, they made up pretty well, and eventually Disney now does uh, they do own all the Muppet studio. They own the Muppets.

Apparently the Henston company sold the rights to the Sesame Street characters to Sesame Street, which is pretty yes, and the Jim Henson Creature shops still builds the Sesame Street Puppets and Muppets. Yeah, since they sold the rights of the Muppets and there in the Big Blue House characters, which I'm not familiar with that one, nor am I, but Disney wanted. I guess that's sort of the the player to be named later that's included in the in

the baseball trade. Man. I'm proud of the Henson kids. Yeah, they're great and uh, I hope we get tweeted about this one. From then they seem he seemed pretty great, Brian and Cheryl and the gang. He seemed like they're doing right by the dad. And there's other siblings too, and I think they're all involved, super involved. And sadly Jane passed away I think in two thousand thirteen at the age of seventy eight. I would have loved to have seen what kind of work he did later in

his life. Oh yeah, the fact that he died still had like a couple of TV shows going. I'm years old. Yeah, he hit a lot of left in. Uh. If you want to know more about Jim Henson, go listen to our Muppets episode. And while you're looking that up, you can also uh search Jim Henson on the search bar at how Stuffworks dot com and we'll bring up this great article and us since I said search parts, time for a listener mail. Uh this is I'm gonna call

this sophomore smart sophomore. Hey guys, my name is Matt and I'm a sophomore in high school. Smartphomore. I'm a newer fan of the show, and I listen while I do everything. I just wanted to say the Dark Ages were only dark in Europe. The life expectancy in the Dark Ages is actually a little longer than before, but mostly because there were smaller wars. But things were certainly brighter in the Islamic world. In fact, people in the

Middle East were really enlightened during this time. Within about a hundred years, they conquered a lot of new land, including Spain. Also, the Arabic language grew to be the language of philosophy, medicine, and poetry, and Baghdad became the world center of scholarship. They translated almost all of the famous Greek philosopher's work into Arabic. Muslim Muslims developed algebra to simplify inheritance laws, and they made important strides in

trigonometry to help people find a way to Mecca. Architecture grew to the Great Mosque in Spain. We took roughly a year, while medieval cathedrals took hundreds of years to build. So the Dark Ages weren't that dark. And the Enlightenment came earlier than most think. And that is from Matt. Thanks Matt. That is enlightening stuff, my friend. Yeah, our numerals are Arabic. Yeah, it's true. We should, we should

hit on some more Middle Eastern topics. Let's do it. Yeah. Uh. In the meantime, if you want to suggest some Middle Eastern topics for us, you can tweet them to us at s I s K Podcast. You can post them on our Facebook page at Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and as always, hang out at our beautiful home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com For more on this and

thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot com