Should Advertising to Kids Be Banned?

dot com Sunday afternoon, one pm January. Bye bye. Welcome to Stuff you should know from the house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there. It's nice and cool in here in the Studiosdo one a it's a it is, Yeah, don't tell us what happens if you're listening to this after Tuesday the right spoiler free zone. Hey, feeling nervous tents by the puke? Nope, none of the above. Well, good man, you look like

you're jelling like a felon. Chuck that means, don't you remember those? Uh, that doesn't matter. Um, do you remember being a child? Uh? Sure? Do you remember? About two weeks ago when we released our action figure episode do Well, we talked a lot about being a child and about toys, and we even touched on advertising and deregulation, which we will get into again a little bit here. But um, if you were a child and you watch television, basically at any point from the nineteen forties on, you were

probably advertised to in some form of fashion. But early on it was kind of clunky, right, Like the first day, I think the first dad ever on TV was a bull of a watch ad and it just showed a bull of a watch ticking off sixty seconds. Say what more do you need? Apparently nothing? Right? And then they thought, well, hey, people love to tune in to watch the hosts, so we'll have the hosts just pitch you know, coult brand firearms or whatever. You know. I thought you could say

malt liquor. You know that came later first? Is the firearms well together? Actually one makes the other go off? Uh? So they would have like hosts read this stuff. So when kids programming came into the fold, that it followed that kind of natural progression where like an ad was just this, uh, the host suddenly saying like, hey, kids, by the way, you will love these firecrackers that have my picture on it. Right, who was that kind of

kind of hockey there was? Actually I found this one really great UM article on retising to children, and it talks about this nineteen fifties show called Miss Francis is Ding Dong School and Ms Francis she would like read to the kids, talk to them like they were kids. But just basically it was a cute little kids show from what I can gather. Then every once in a while she would take kids, it's time for a very special message. Go get your parents and bring them in

to hear this special message. And the kids would run and get their parents and bring them in to see the TV. And uh, Miss Francis would fool everybody by pitching an ad basically. So these are like the early ads, right. It wasn't until I think nineteen fifty two that the actual first ad for kids product, a toy by the name of Mr Potato Head, first hit the airwaves. That's right, Uh, you know, fifty ninety two wasn't that long. Ago. But um,

things have really really changed since then. And one of the big reasons why it's changed just because companies and corporations and toymakers and fast food chains and candy, candy ears, candy Yeah, sure is that a word. Sure it is now, taffy makers. They all know that. Kids. There's a lot of money, not only in what kids want to buy for themselves, but the influenced kids have on their family

and what they do. It's blockbuster. And not only that, but like you know, we talked we're gonna talk about this a little bit later, but indoctrinating these kids at a very young age as brand loyalists because like, get them while they're young. Yeah, and if you you, if you do that, you're kind of like planning seeds that will hopefully grow into something where you're like, well, Colgate toothpaste love me. I remember that from being a kid. So when I don't want the cartoons, I want to

be loved by mother Colegate. Yeah, so that's what you buy as an adult. What was the uh we put holes in teeth? Remember that vaguely? I don't know who might have been a little before your time, it was I don't remember the toothpaste may have been Colgate. No, I think it was the Crest team, but it was just a full on super hero team of cavity fighters.

I remember them wedged into cartoon programming. Yes, I remember that, and uh, you know as well, we'll talk about it, but I couldn't tell the difference between that in the cartoon I was watching. I remember being at school and being taught how to brush my teeth with those same guys. Yea, the Crest Cavity Fighters or something like that. Yeah, and

of course we're talking about fighting cavities. And as you'll see in some of this material, like sometimes these brands try and push things for good, but they're still pushing their brand. Yeah. That's the thing. Man. It's so easy to just be like, oh, wow, Colgate really does love my children or Crest really does care about my kids teeth. No, they don't. They do not. They don't love you or your family. They don't actually care about your kids teeth.

They care about creating this kind of relationship between the brand and your family. They care that your kids have teeth. There you go, because they could sell toothpaste. It's true. Uh So when we talk about influence, um, you found, um a study from about eight years ago. Yeah, this is the this is the most recent stuff I could find. Some of it seems a little old ish, but this is as as new as I can find. Man, I'm sorry, that's right. So the influence basically is what we're talking

about of kids over their family. These um, these little power wielding monsters, three foot tall, power wielding monsters. Ye know that apparently of the time they will influence, um, the breakfast choice, the lunch choice, going out to eat, of the time you're gonna go where your kid wants to go, And thirty four per cent of kids have a say every time, which okay, all right, I think

was just casual family meal. What's the difference mean that in the choice of restaurant, So like I want to eat hamburgers or specifically I want to eat, you know, in an out burger? I think no. I think with the thirty four percent of kids, every time the family DESI to eat, the kid has to say in thirty percent of families, whereas overall percent of restaurant choices have a kid saying it. Okay. That doesn't mean every kid gets that say every time. It's a bit it's a

bit confusing, maybe even unnecessary. One could argue, I think we could just agree that kids have an undue amount of power software. Seventy percent at a time, they're gonna influence what kind of software you're buying in the family, and sixty percent a time what kind of computer. Family outings, family trips and excursions. That's a pressing staff. I didn't have any choice of where we went as a child. No, I was told where we were going on vacation. I

was never asked. I don't remember being asked to either. I mean, like they my parents mostly planned family trips that like we would enjoy, but I remember them being like, do you want to go here? Here? It was like this is where we're going? Yeah, and I was. I mean, it was always camping for us, and a lot of times in Florida or uh mostly in Florida. Well yeah, you grew up in Georgia, Florida. Why a lot of beach camping. But um, yeah, we certainly never got any

say like I want to go to Disney World. You wish in one hand, yeah, exactly. So you take that influence that kids have over their parents purchases, and you combine it with their actual like allowance or lawnmowing money or whatever, the money that they actually spend from their own pockets. And what you have is called kids buying power, and it is staggering. Right back in two thousand, kids buying power equaled about five hundred billion dollars a year

in the United States. It's just got more and more, higher and higher. Two thousand and five it had gone up to seven hundred billion, right jump change. You want to hit him with the two thousand twelve stat and this is this is almost five years ago. Now one point two trillion dollars. That's how much money kids directly or indirectly spent in the United States. It's amazing, it is. So there's one more factor too that makes advertisers really

want kids. They will eventually grow into adult consumers. There are already kid consumers. They're already influencing their parents buying choices. But they'll eventually grow up. And like you said, if you can hit them young, can get that brand loyalty developed, then they will grow up and remember that that affiliation to it, that nostalgia you know, and you will you will buy that product throughout your lifetime. I think I used crass toothpaste. I still I still go to Colgate. Yeah,

that's what I was raised on. Uh. So I looked up something. UM it's called pester power. Have you ever heard of that? That is, Um, well, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's it's how kids manipulate their parents into getting them things, and it's by pet bothering them. Uh. And they did some uh some the you gov Omnibus Parents survey got some stats and UM, fifty seven percent of parents I think their children are successful persuaders. And the top tactic from a kid, according to seventy one

percent of parents, is verbal negotiation. Uh said they were. They were bartered like I'll do more chores. I'll get better grades if you get me this stuff, whereas it should be like, no, you should get better grades anyway. You know, not really gonna buy you this garbage. Uh. Create wish lists. That was big when we were kids.

I that was one of the funniest things to do. Um. All those kids always look so happy in there too, you know, do you I've showed you that like wish book web before, where they just go through scan old catalogs. Talk about nostalgia. It's John Hodge. Won't even look at that, and like I would see a slight tear goes down his cheek and then drop a blood goes out of his ear, right, and then that tear turns to acid and then burns through the floor. He's like, stop, no,

I won't give him. Uh. Parents say, some kids list pros and cons or write letters or power point presentations of kids. Right, power Point presentations, that's the lobby for a gift. I'd be like, good for you, buddy, you're learning some future skills. You're gonna be a salesman, a road warrior. And apparently of parents said that they buckled and bought the item at an average purchase cost of two hundred and thirty three dollars. Whoa talk about pestor power?

I would I would make a power point presentation for a two dollar item, but first you have to lobby for the power point software. Right, you can make your presentation to get your garbage toy. That reminds me, um, you me told me when she was a kid she made this basically this menu of stuff that her parents would pay her money for. It would be like, didn't put salt on my food at dinner. You give me

fifteen cents, not penalties. It was stuff that she was doing and then they would just pay her for it. And her parents looked at it. We're like, this is a really great idea, except, like you said earlier, you're supposed to be doing this anyway. We'll tell you if you can put salt on your food. We're not going to give you money to not put salt on your food. You just can't automatically, no money involved. But yeah, pestor power, do you know what my allowance was? Do you remember

what your allowance was? What? Five dollar or a month? Well, this is back in nineteen seventy six, right, yeah, seven, Well that's like a hundred thousand dollars today. I should look that up. I'm curious what that would be in today's dollars. Five dollars a month bucks a month, That does seems small. What did you do with it? I think I probably saved it if I remember correctly, and

saved up to buy things I was. I mean, I got my first job when I was thirteen, who because I was like, I want my money to buy things, well, to buy Star Wars and my own stuff. I knew that you know. I mean my parents were teachers were In fact, at the time, my mom wasn't even working. It was a single parent teacher household. So we we were fine, but we didn't They didn't throw money at a lot of stuff. So those socks are good, just sew them together and make a new sock and rugal.

And they didn't give me a hundred dollars a week. And oh yeah, I had friends that got allowances like that, and I was just like, that's not Even when I was a kid, I remember being like that seems wrong. Yeah, like why why are you getting that? You're not doing anything for that money? Like the kids who got the hundred dollar a week allowances were the ones who did the least of all. Yes, you know, liked I worked around my house. I'll tell you that, I'd sit on

my face all the time. I didn't get a hundred dollars a week sweeping that chimney. All right, So all this equals a lot of spending, And then on the flip side of that, you're gonna have a lot of spending on advertising. UM In the US, in two thousand nine, company spent seventeen billion dollars on advertising directly at children and kids in America. This is horrifying. Kids in the United States today see forty thousand ads a year. Wow, so seventeen billion. That sounds like a lot, and it

is right. But in nine eight three, just in nine eighty three, they spent a hundred million dollars on ads. It jumped up that much since three. And we'll see why in a little while. That's a hundred and ten adds a day that kids are seeing. Could that be right? That's a hundred and ten ads that are out there on on kids programming. It doesn't necessarily mean they see them all. They're just there for them to see. Oh. So when it says kids see an estimated, that just

means they're out there for So here's something. Here's something that I'm I've run across. There are there's a huge body of research on advertising to kids that will get into There are also some figures out there where it's like I've seen this, but then I've also seen that. Yeah sure, you know, so, like you said, a hundred and ten adds a day, Yeah, that's that's there's no way that any kid has ever seen a hundred and ten ads in a day. I don't know, man, think

about it. But we've willboards internet commercials. I guess that's entirely possible. I guess that's possible. You might see twenty five ads on your way home from school, but I have seen that forty thousand ads a year thing all over the place. For sure. I could buy that so ads in school, which we'll get too. So yeah, so there's there's this whole idea that yeah, oh man, that's that's a lot of ads, or that's a lot of

money being spent to advertise to children. Maybe we should tone it down, or maybe we should think about how we're doing this a little differently. No, say some people. There's a particularly a group called Commercial Free Childhood Campaign for a commercial Free Childhood, and they say kids should

not see ads at all. Yea, even the say the good ones that say eat this healthy thing or a brush your teeth, don't Because what they're saying is is if you teach kids to identify with products through the kind of advertising, which is basically celebrity endorsement, whether that celebrity is Don Mattingly or um Tony the Tiger, like a made up celebrity, it's still a cult of personality that the kids buying into not Oh, these carets actually

are good to me, are good form me. It's don maddeningly says that I can be a world class home run hitter if I eat these carrots. You know what I'm saying. So the focus is still on mindless consumerism, even if they are being leaned towards like good commercial or yeah, good good product or whatever, good habits or whatever. Yeah, this one selection that you pulled here was really telling. It says, um, advertising in and of itself is harmful

to children. Marketing targets emotions, not intellect, trains children to choose products not for the actual value, but because of what's on the package of the celebrity, undermines critical thinking, promotes impulse buying. Yeah, that's like it says it. All that was Susan Lynn of the UH campaign for Commercial Free Childhood makes a lot of sense. Don't regulate it, get rid of it, exactly. And there's been a lot of pushes over the years to do just that in

the United States. Other countries have done it. Um And as people have kind of battled over this this, a lot of study has been and done on what impact advertising has on kids brains, and we'll dive into that right after these messages, all right, before we broke Uh well, earlier we were talking about I was saying I couldn't when I was a kid. I remember the Crest Cavity Fighters, and I just thought it was another cartoon. Um, that's not because I was a dumb kid. It's because if

you are. They've determined, this is through scientific study and inquiry, that if you are under four years old, you literally cannot tell the difference between a commercial and the program you're watching. No, like, not at all, even if they use commercial break techniques like we'll be right back after these messages or whatever, right which they have to use. You notice you don't see that between you know, commercials for Seinfeld. You know, No, it's true, we'll be back

right after this. Can you believe? But you have to have that stuff in kids programming, even though if you're under the age of four does no good. No Like, the kid literally cannot discern between the program they're watching and the ads. That That's nuts to me. I didn't realize that until I started researching that. Did you know that? Uh well, we talked about it in a couple of weeks ago, but yeah we did yeah, okay, um between

four and five. As you start to get a little bit older, you might be able to tell a difference categorically, but you're still it's it's more along the lines of, well that's shorter, that that cartoon was really short, or it was funnier yeah, or look different or whatever. So you can tell the difference, but you still don't know you're being you know, shoveled and add on your tiny

little throat. Ye. And there's two there's two things that children lack that you need to be able to understand and add at its basis right, and one is you have to number one, be able to differentiate it from the program. So you have to be able to say, oh, it's an AD. When they said after these messages will be right back, it means that the show went away, and now what i'm seeing is an AD. That's step one.

Step two is that you have to be able to understand that in any kind of ad you're being advertised to, you're you're being persuaded, and that the message that's coming at you is biased and therefore you should take it with a grain of salt. That comes even later than understanding the difference between an AD and the program. Right the the idea that you're you're being advertised to doesn't come until at least seven. From what I've seen, you don't even know what grain of salt means. You don't

know what that expression means. You have no idea because you can't even say, as a parent, I would take it with a grain of salt. At an AD, they'll go, what are these words? What I like salt? Uh? There's a Center for New American Dream and um, this is frightening. They said. Babies he's young as six months old, conform mental images of corporate logos and mascot's. I didn't find what that's how they figured that out? Was it like

your baby draw draw dome? Manningly, what has he ever endorsed? Promoter? Right now? Is he? I don't know what years is? Okay? Uh? And brand loyalties can be established by the age of two and um, yeah, that one that's crazy to me. And apparently in the British study at least they found it. You have to be close to a teenager up to about twelve is when you can finally really discern an AD from content and its intent on an adult level. Yeah,

it's about where. And what's interesting thing is the the group that that conducted that study and concluded that was an advertising lobbying group. So even they are like, yes, kids under the age of twelve are mentally incapable of discerning the intent and content of ads. All they get is the the overall message of the ad, which is you want this, Go tell your parents that you want this, Go make your parents pastor power exactly use a power point. Yeah.

And the American Psychology Association they had this task force in two thousand four and they basically looked at all the available literature over the last like, you know, several decades. I think it was the sixties where they really started looking into it. Um and the a p A basically concluded, yes, kids are kids can't understand advertising. It's unfair to advertised to kids. This is the position of the a p A. Like, if it were up to us, it would be banned. Yes,

they suggested that it should be banned. Kids under the age of at least seven. I think the a p A said should not see ads directed towards them, But like I say, not up to them. They can only recommend and be laughed at corporations with hippies pocket on a commune hippie. Uh. So when it comes to nutrition,

this is a really big deal. Um. There are a lot of advertisements for candy and junk food and fast food that are rammed down your kid's throat from a very early age, and there's been You can't provide a direct uh causation. Of course, everybody's like, give it to me, but there's a lot of correlation that watching these commercials and seeing these ads, uh, correlates to your kid eating more of the stuff and maybe gaining weight and maybe

affecting overall childhood obesity. Yeah. And again, remember the advertising on or the money spent on advertising to children in a hundred million dollars, it went up to seventeen billion in two thousand, nine hundred millions. Yeah. Yeah, but even still I think, I think it was still considered kind

of paltry. Ishi, I mean, especially if you adjust for inflation, it's still nothing like seventeen billion, right, And if you go back over time and look at the rates of childhood obesity, it tracks along the same the same UM graph. So it's one of the factors. Can we just say

agree on that. Yeah, and uh. Studies have found also, so not only are your kids being exposed to a high percentage of the ads that they see are junk food ads, but it's we've also it's been shown that if you show kids junk food ads and adults to actually but it really works on kids, they will eat more junk food while they're watching the ads. It's basically, um what's called the priming effect. The kid will be

sitting there seeing an ad for Twinkies. Well, there's no Twinkies in the house, but there's a box of twigs. I'll eat the box of twigs. And actually a box of twigs. If I used see a box of twigs, my mom would hide it around the house. So when I found him, I had to eat the whole thing because I knew that she'd find that I found them and hide them. Even better, you never knew where they were going to end up. That would just be eating

them like a little fat squirrel. Uh. So it's two thousand and ninth study found that kids who watched a program with commercials um a more calories than the kids who watched the same program without commercials. So the actual presence of the commercials gets kids to eat more food. And the food that they usually have at hand and they're being primed to eat is junk food. Well here's a study, boy, this is study. Instead. I thought you'd

like that. It's got my juice flawing kid. Uh. In Quebec, America's had one part of America's had, they have the opposite effect. They for the past thirty two years have banned fast food advertising geared towards children online and in print. And that providence says the least childhood obesity in Canada. It's actually it's even older than that. I said, correct that was that they and yeah, they just said no, no, yeah,

no more like America's pants. Uh they said no way a yeah, no, I come back, they said in French. She said no, okay mate, no, no, doc. But I mean, how can you look I know there are still other factors, of course, but how can you look at these statistics and not just run screaming down the street like a crazy person. I don't know, like companies are trying to make your kids fat? Yeah? Yeah, again, we come back to the Dorrito. The book should read it, because if

you read it, it's like even with me. It's taken malicious intent off the table. It's more just like this is just the way it is. These people, these companies have products and they make money selling the products. So they're going to advertise the product. Your your kids going to love it, and if you don't want your kid to eat it, tell your kid no, you lazy parents. Well yeah, which we'll get into later. Uh, this is what we should point out to. This is not just

in traditional advertising. Product placement has been booming for the past past decade for sure, but even before that. Yeah, I think it really started in the eighties. But I mean it's really like product placement is like it's never been before. Uh. They did a study in two thousand eight. Why has every study in the same at least eight years old? I couldn't find anything new or it's crazy.

Gig Ridge came along and some cut off funding for it. Well, I think we can say everything's worse than these studies, then I would. I would guess in two thousand and eight there were nearly thirty five thousand food, beverage and restaurant brands and primetime TV programming. And that's not in commercials. That's product placement. Yeah. Yeah, Apparently kids on average of a hundred coke product placements throughout the year. Uh during two thousand and eight, that's about three to four a week.

And that's just in a movie that you're watching, in a TV show that you're watching. That that's on top of all the ads that they're going. It's literally like indoctrination. So not only are your kids incapable of understanding what ads are, um, the ads are having a pronounced negative

effect on their health. Is speaking through correlation, right. It's again there's no smoking gun that where some kid was like that oreo and just made me eat this oreo everybody, and then he was whisked off to John Hopkins to be raised in a cage for the rest of his life. That has not happened yet. We can only hope one. But the correlation, uh is is definitely there. And they're also becoming more and more ubiquitous. Right. Um. So there was this Yale study from two twelve, Chuck, not that

long ago. In two thousand and twelve, they looked at um fast food, fast food marketing to children, fast food advertising specifically, and they found um that McDonald's was far and away the biggest spender on advertising the kids, specifically with their Happy Meal brand, which is basically now a sub brand of McDonald's. The Happy Meal is I think I remember when the Happy Meal is invented. Yeah, and the Happy Meal that was seventies or eighties, right, And

it was not invented for adults. No, no, no. The toy tie ins Ronald McDonald's were not things that they developed to sell more hamburgers two adults or because the adults make the choice of where to go eat. It was for kids, right, It was a specific choice to sell more fast food to kids. Yeah. And in this two thousand and twelve study, in just that year alone, um McDonald spent forty two million dollars on advertising just the Happy Meals in two thousand twelve. Here's one that'll

shake you to the core. The average US child between two and eleven saw one hundred and eighty five Chicken McNugget Happy Meal commercials on TV last year hundred and eighty five ads for chicken McNuggets and then so that's a lot. But to really put in perspective, the number two advertiser to children for fast food was Burger King. They had a Kid's meal. Um kids saw an average of twenty three point four of those per year, not

a hundred and eighty five. Twenty three was the second place contestant, which is why Burger Kings never in first. They're not spending enough on advertising the kids. There's a Burger King execut of right now that just made like pulled over, made a note spend more. Uh. I remember how they got I don't. I'm sure they still do this. I haven't, like, I literally haven't looked at what a happy meal is. And it's nothing like kids. Remember it came in the box and like is it not it's

in a bag, a paper bag? Is it a special bag? But like puzzles and you have to be a kid to really recognize it as special, you know what I mean? Where the boxes like it's its own thing. Yeah, it was a little gift. Um. But how they really got us back then, I don't know if they still do this is uh, you know collect all four they still do that. They do now it's like collect all sixteen. So it would be I remember some stupid little car that you would put a penny in. Oh, those were

great penny racers. Yeah, and you would like pull it back and it would spin or something or Papa wheee or just take off like a rocket and collect all four. So it's like it's not even an enough, Like it's

hard for me to not visualize the devil. And in an advertising room going like, yeah, well, we we can sell this this meal to kids more if we can include a toy, and some other guys saying, oh, well, how about if there's four different toys and they have to go back four different times to get a different color each time. Yeah, And I remember the drive through people would be like, you got what you got, you

have to go through and buy another Happy Meal. If you want a different you have to keep you weren't guaranteed to get that. Yeah. So yeah, way more than four trips to get your Happy Meal. What a time to be alive? Oh yeah yeah. Um so advertising has actually gone down and on on some ways kids kids by fractions of personage a little bit, yeah, but for the most part it's trending upward. And apparently there's um nowadays little tots that go on to websites to play.

Some of these websites like happy meal dot com. Not to pick on McDonald's, but man, they definitely have spread it out enough so that they're a a an enormous part of this. Dude, McDonald's had a website for preschool children Ronald dot com. They shut it down finally, but they literally had a website for preschoolers. I know, it sounds like it was clown heavy happy happy meal dot com and two dozen twelve had a hundred thousand monthly uniques.

I don't even think how stuff works has a hundred thousand monthly unique and happy meal dot com does, right, And these are little kids and they're going on and doing their thing, having a great time playing on happy meal dot com. But this whole website is one big ad, right, And even outside of happy meal dot Com, on other websites like cartoon network dot com or nick dot com, like Nickelodeon's website, you're going to see ad placements, banner ads or whatever kind of ads on these other websites

for happy me. They're all over the place. Yeah. Of the top twenty five advertisers, nineteen of those twenty five increased advertising to preschoolers. Uh, Domino's Pizza. I guess they're more than pizza now, they're just Dominoes now. Kinds of stuff, right, Domino's increased advertising to children. I think when was this between two thousand nine two thousand twelve. Wendy's by and McDonald's is the only restaurant that advertises more to children

than teens. Are adults more, they advertise more to kids, all right, hard to believe. Plus also there's I was looking at this, there's some apps now too, So beyond the websites, you can also download apps that again, if you're a kid, you're just playing, you're on the mic play app. But if you go onto the mic play app, so like their their toy giveaway. The big tie in

now is the Trolls movie. It was recently, and you would get your troll character out of the happy Meal box and you would scan it with your phone and upload it onto your mcplay app, and you could make your troll character the little real one that you have in real life, go play in the troll game. And the mick play app was the troll game like McDonald's Wonderland or something. Yeah, but it's also the Trolls movie. So you're being like hit with this advertising, this joint advertising.

God knows how much the Trolls production gave to McDonald's to host this whole thing. So there there's this. Uh, there's the average ads are not even ads anymore, don't even websites anymore, they're games. I I don't mean to get worked up, it's just astounding like that, when you start digging in, you just feel like you're drowning. And I think once people listen to this, you start to

notice things a little more around you. Like even reading the stuff over the past few days, I just start to see it everywhere all of a sudden, like, oh my god, some I'm paring out there was like Mick play, I get it, now, give me that phone. Uh. Here's something we mentioned earlier that is, um, well, you think that school would be the one place where your kids can go for eight or nine hours a day and escape this onslaught of advertising. But no schools are Uh.

They have budget cuts increasingly across the country. And so who sweeps in but corporations to say, hey, we'd love to get a computer center for you. We'd hate for your school to fail. Yeah, so how about the new um uh Jack in the box computer center. Well, we'll Jack in the box be there to cut the ribbon on the first day. Well, sure you will. I think it will be homeless man dressed as Jack in the Box will be Well, every kid get a Jack in

the box and tin ahead. Oh, I think they will. Uh. So that's what's happening is corporations that they either have partnerships or they have vending machine contracts. Um, and that you make I don't know where you got this particular part. This was very well put together, by the way, but um, they make the point here that you've got a captive audience. Kids are like prison. You're stuck there, can'tie there's a

cop that's making sure they stay there. Well, I didn't have a cop in my schools, but I don't think they're They came along about my era. Okay, Um, we had our guy. He wasn't a cop, but he was the resource officer. Yeah, I don't know. We didn't call him that, just Barney five sort of. He just basically kind of walked around the parking lots with a billy batt looking for looking for kids smoking or or leaving in their car or doing whatever. I remember. He was

always very easy to evade. Only so much ground you can cover as one single man, single board man um and this is before cell phones. Do I imagine that guy? Now it's just like park somewhere playing on this mcplay. I love this trolls again. Uh, but not only they are captive, but that it implies the endorsement of the

teachers and the educational system, which is huge. Yeah, yeah, and so much so that, Like I remember, we were talking about the Crest Cavity team, and I learned about like oral hygiene but those two words put together awful, by the way. But I learned that through Crest, right, and it came with free toothpaste and a tooth Crest toothbrush and all that. And there's like an activity book, and yes, I was learning about this stuff, but it

was Crest sponsored. But in my little brain, I'm like, well, I guess my school that thinks Crest is great, therefore Crest is great, you know. Or they might come out and a bunch of out of work actors dressed up as the Crest Cavity team might make an appearance at your school. Yeah, if you go to like Hollywood High or something rich school, that's pretty funny. If you've ever seen Hollywood High, it's like not very rich looking. Nope, there's rich kids that go there, right, Dylan, And now

that that was Beverly. That's what I mean. That's what I meant. Okay, that is a rich school. Yeah, I'll take you about Hollywood High next summer in l A get a lath it's right there in the middle of the town. I think, right next to the In and Out Burger. I'm not mistaken. Uh, that was Bukowski stumbling out. So what else are you gonna get in school? You might get a Craft healthy eating kit again, maybe trying to teach you about eating healthy, but got their logo

and and products all over it. No more than five boxes of Kraft brand macaroni and cheese a day. What else? Um, there's exclusive contracts with companies. Were like your high schools a Coke high school. You're not gonna find a pepsi vending machine in this high school district, you know. Um, and those are probably fairly lucrative. Straight up advertising on buses. Yeah. Uh, we didn't have that when I was a kid, but apparently they do. Now, how about this a reading program? Uh? Book?

It brought to you by Pizza? Hut? I did that? Did you? Oh man? Reading enough to get a free personal pants. Is that what the deal was. I was like, just give me some books. See. And that's the thing though, It's like they're incentivizing reading. That's a good thing, but incentivizing reading to eat their garbage food product. And it was like the focus of the summer to to to get to that point where you would get your free personal pan pizza certificate? Man, how did you prove that

you read the books? I was an honor system. We were all very honorable kids, apparently. Uh, all right, should we take a break here, Yes, all right, we'll pause for this ad. The irony is not lost on enough. We'll be right back, all right, Chuck. So, if this kind of stuff is making your blood boil, some people out there totally understand it. Are saying, hey, man, we live in a capitalist country. Should be able to advertise the kids. You've got a product, to sell, sell it

the best way you can. Okay. Other people out there are just so mad, they're trembling in their barking stocks. Yeah, that's actually not that's terrible. Uh, they're just uh, they're just upset at the thought of all this, right, and it does seem very overwhelming and unfair. Um, and for a while. Now in the US, we've got a long standing tradition of groups coming up and trying to fight the advertisers, getting almost somewhere and then failing. Yes, that's

the history of it here. Yeah, we talked a little bit about this in the Action Figures podcast. UM, and we'll go over some of it right now again the well remember that inspired this episode. Yeah. Uh. Nineteen seventies, the f c C Communications Commission, Um, they said, you know what, we should ban advertising to young kids. But they said, all right, well, maybe we shouldn't completely ban it.

Maybe we should just limit it and limit the kinds of how much they see in the kind of things you can say and do right, specifically hosts selling like Ms Francis in her little Ding Dong hour, stopping and selling something that was off limits. Now, that's right. Then later on in the late nineteen seventies, UM, they once again, the f TC, this time considered banning all the advertising the kids, citing all the evidence that's always been out there all over the place that in the direction that

kids can't tell the difference and unfairly takes advantage. UM. And Congress said, well wait a minute, now, we we helped. We we got here based largely on you know, Crest. They got deep pockets and they funded us as a whole, our congressional election campaigns. Right. Uh. So they stopped it.

They put a stop to the FTC and the FCC said, fine, fine, do what you want your Congress, but we're going to take a parting shot saying if you look even cursorily at the at the medical literature on kids in advertising, you will see that this is wrong and it's a public concern and should remain that way. And this is

on you and they who cares. Uh. And you talked about groups popping up, there's one called Actions for Children's Television Act, founded in nineteen sixty eight by Evelyn Sarson and Peggy Charin Sharin char she's the boat keeper on the river sticks, the guy, the boat rower who would row you over to the world. Yeah, I believe so, oh man, I hope so. Uh. I thought it was um old skippy. I mean, if you knew him, you'd call him that if you were a neighbor boy. Um.

They're a big deal now, uh, twenty thousand members. But back in the day, when they were just getting going, they were a pretty small little grassroots unit and Romper Room, of all things, was squarely in their sights at first. Yeah. One of the first ones they took on, Romper Room was like the least harmful, nicest show ever. I loved it. I did too. Um, isn't that what Mr green Jeans

was on? That was Captain Kinger. Oh, yeah, you're right, Yeah, I don't remember Romper Room then, I just remember I loved it. Romper Room was one that had the magic magic mirror, and at the end of the episode, the lady would look into the mirror and say like, I see Joh, Should I see Jerry? You just sit there and being like, oh, my name and I didn't get many chucks? So did you say, Charles? Did you count

yourself for that? I don't remember. It was sort of that feeling you get when you go to the anything that had like the names printed key chains with the little license plates, and it was always like, why is it my name Mike or Josh? Yeah, I'll just go with the number one astronaut one, the generic one, not the chuck is so random. But I didn't see it a ton. Sure you don't hear a lot of chucks these days. My name is out of fashion. Now, Yeah, that's cool. It's it's not though it's a retro. I'll

take it. Um So, what did they do with Romper Room? They said, your host selling. Yeah, apparently they had their own line of toys. And one of the things was I guess she'd look in the mirror and say, I see this brand new line of toys that you're gonna buy, and the a C he said, hey, this is against the rules. And they didn't even go to the FEC. They went to the station that produced Trumper Room and knock it off. Yeah, we're made, and they listened to him.

That was I think their first real victory. Uh. So Ronald Reagan, we talked about in the action figures when this is when things got real in the eighties. When Reagan specifically appointed Mark Fowler as Commissioner of the f SEC, everything changed. Yeah. Because Reagan he liked the regulation, sure, he believed in free markets, uh and he appointed Fowler, who believed in free markets just as much as Reagan did.

Fowler had a um A saying as the FCC chairman, which is pretty rich frankly, because the FEC had long been tasked with basically overseeing broadcasting for the public interests. Right. It's one of the big reasons why UM broadcasters got licensed. They had to like have public interest programming certain amount

of week. UM they were looking they were supposed to be looking out for people, right, And Mark Fowler said the public interest would be decided by the public's interest, meaning that if somebody started doing something nefarious under this deregulation where the government wasn't paying attention anymore, well, then people would stop watching that network and they would go under the market would decide it. And advertising to children fell squarely into this this purview or this this worldview

of his. Yeah. And between nineteen four and nineteen five, and this is what we touched on in the Action Figure show was cartoons featuring license characters increased by three hundred percent. It became the new Well, I mean, I don't think there almost were none that didn't have a

tie in. No, there was there. Yeah, and before that, just a couple years before, there was none that did because there was a rule against what are called program length commercials, which was what Jem was and My Little Pony and pac Man and and ThunderCats and he Man, all of them were these these shows that were created to sell the products, and they tied into the products and it was just like open season on little kids minds. Yeah,

I mean you're you loved he Man, right, Sure. I definitely did an ThunderCats, Jason the Wheel Warriors, like all that stuff. And I was just a total sucker for Smurfs, although I don't think Smurf's I think they started out as an actual cartoon and then like their whole product line was launched as a result. Six months later, they were like, weren't we selling these things? I was gonna

ask you that. Uh In f CC finally had some rules pushed through that limited the airtime to ten point five minutes per hour on weekends in twelve minutes per hour and weekdays for kids, programming and host selling was officially prohibited. Yeah, that was the Children's Children's Television Act, that's right. Um. They also the idea of having to break for commercials with we'll be right back or now a word from our sponsor that came out of that as well. Yeah, although I seem to remember it before

maybe not. All right, So you mentioned earlier that other countries are doing this, Um, Australia, Canada, Sweden, the UK, they all have regulations on stuff like this. Yeah. By doing this, you mean actually doing something, yes, yeah, correct. Yeah, there's a whole spectrum, right, Yeah, that has to do with how a country approaches advertising to children. The US actually represents one radical end of it, which is actually nothing. Yeah. Yeah.

On the other end, there's countries that have banned it, like Quebec, which again is a province, but yeah, it's also occupied countries. Uh in Norway and Sweden. Big surprise there, Nordic countries coming in there, swinging the bat of justice, right, swinging the rack of justice. They completely banned marketing the children under the age of twelve in those countries, right.

And then a little more in the middle, you've got like the UK and Australia, where there's far more regulations than there is in the US, but there's also a large measure of self regulation among the industry too. Yeah. I was really hardened to hear that in the UK.

A lot of these aren't necessarily laws. They're just sort of unspoken rules among advertisers that you don't uh suggests that a child is lacking in loyalty, or you don't encourage them to pest or their parents or I mean that's a big one, you know, like a commercial that shows a kid like, mom, can I have this? Right?

There was this um oh, I think it was like Itchy and Scratchy was up for an Emmy on The Simpsons once or something, and they were showing the other cartoons that it was up against in the category for Best Animated Special, and one of them was like the Action Man Holiday Special how to buy Action Man, And this showed some kid go, I want it and the parent looks at the boxes like it's a pretty it's

basically right there. Yeah. Another one in England they say you don't make a child feel inferior, unpopular for not buying a product. Yeah, that's a big one too. Yeah, And apparently these are just things that they think are decent that you shouldn't do, because I remember too. Like with with advertising, I don't remember seeing too many like Polo ads. I was very much aware of Polo, but I also knew that Polo was a great brand because

my peers knew it was a great brand. Right, So there's that peer pressure that starts from a young age, especially with things like clothing. So did to remove that out of the equation a little bit by not letting average tisers like make a kid feel smaller inferior for not buying a product. I wonder how much it mitigates that at all. Yeah, hopefully some you know, our own TV show might not have come around if that hadn't have been for the conscience of our director and leader.

What do you mean Chad? Our director was he went and started his production company because he was an ad dude and he was on set one day. I remember telling me the story selling a doing a commercial for a garbage junk food product for kids, and was just like I had one of those moments. He's like, what am I doing? What am I doing? My life? And he quit it, quit his job and went and started his own production company. H to where they make as Now I'm just kidding, that's why I started it. Yeah,

nice where you go? Chad? Yeah, he developed, he didn't develop a conscience. He had a conscience and it was agitated and it was agitated. It's pretty Yeah. So in our TV show came, uh what about online? That's the big sort of new brave, new not so brave new world. Yeah, like those apps who were talking about Yeah, they're like all over the place, right, Yeah, they're all over the place.

But they're also they're interactive. So your kid is actively participating in something that has to do with the brain on the couch. Yeah right, But they're interacting with that brand, you know, in their in their head. They're also immersed into a branded environment for long periods of time. Plus also, um, a lot of the advertising, if not a hundred percent

of it, is um targeted. Right. They're using metadata based on the your kids other play habits, search history, other apps that's downloaded where your kid lives, any demographic information they can get to make the add like even more targeted to him that works on its Yeah, I can't imagine. It must be like utter magic on a kid. I'll buy you can be like, watch, I'll make that kid get off the couch right now, watch this. I'll send him this ad. The kid gets off the couch and

goes to the fridge. You know. Yeah, there's a very Truman Show element to it. Yeah, it seems like um, but then again, you you like you said, you hear the companies and the food industry and people saying there's just consumer demand. It's up to the parents like, say no, don't let your child pester you into buying something, be a good parent. And that's definitely that seems to be

their position. The counter to that is, well, if you guys think that the parent really has any kind of say over this, how why are you spending eighteen billion dollars a year advertising directly to children. Why don't you spend that money on me? They're like, oh, we like a good fight, right, we don't like money like the way we're trying to be see a good competitive situation.

Plus also, these these um the advertisers have a tremendous amount of our when they're going directly to a kid to go around the parent and apparent it's any parent just by definition as harried as far as a human being goes, right, So they don't have time necessarily to keep up with everything their kids watching, encounter every argument and every pester session that their kid comes at them with, and advertisers know that, and it's it's I mean, it's

that's unfair as well. Yeah, it was a lot easier back in the day to regulate and monitor what kind of content your children were made available to because you had TV and there were three channels you know pretty much. Um, and there was something called outside. Yeah, alright, so how you combat this? Well, again, if you can find time in your harried life, there are some techniques that you

can use, apparently magically talking to your kid. Yeah. Kids are smart, Yeah, they unless it comes to discerning ads. We always joke about dumb kids, and that's always a joke because kids are very very smart. Kids get things. And if you talk to your kids about what buying things means, and what advertising is and the difference between wants and needs and how marketing works, like on very basic levels, you can have these discussions from an early

agents and um, the value of of spending smartly. Right, So that's actually there's a tech. There's something. There's a concept called media literacy. And up until fairly recently, this was the prescription for combating advertising the kids, among parents, and it was exactly what you just described, sitting down explaining them like why do you why do you want that? Do you want it? Do you need it? Um? Yeah?

Like what is there something better that's less expensive or the same thing that's less expensive, and just teaching them that that's media literacy, and it's teaching them to create a cynical filter that when they're being advertised to they're being manipulated and they need to take it with a grain of salt. And then you have to go, Okay, this is what a grain of salt means, to take a step backwards, right. Cynicals is such a bad word,

though it's maybe discerning. That's another word for sure. The problem is is people like the Campaign for a Commercial Free Childhood says, again, what you're doing is teaching kids to be good consumers. You're focusing on consumerism. You're teaching them everything there is to know about consumerism. Let's just remove kids from the equation of our consumerism. So media literacy has kind of fallen out of favor in the last few years. Yeah, I mean it may be impossible.

That's the conclusion I came to, Like, our kids aren't living our childhood life, and you can't expect that, you know, No, it's and it's true. Like if you're like, no you can't watch TV, or no you can't play video games, or no you can't like use your YouTube app or whatever, like would your kid have anything in common with any of his her peers. I wanted you to be a complete outcast. Yeah, an interesting one, but no one will know how interesting and charming you are because they won't

talk to you. Yeah, they're like, but just wait when you're in your thirties, you're really gonna blossom, Like what, Yeah, you're gonna have a four oh one k already? Yeah, no thanks, You're gonna be a real catch. Uh. Setting limits on this exposure is is obviously kind of a no brainer. Screen time and phones and gaming and internet and all the things are inundated with um and limiting your own screen time it's that's a big one. Yeah,

it's tough to tell the kid. You know, if you're constantly staring at your telephone as a parent, you know you can't see that stuff. Shut up, Barney Miller's on on your phone. Yeah, I guarantee you can find where your own Barney Miller on a phone some way. Well, my Barney Miller app doesn't feature full length shows. Oh it doesn't, just video clips, just clips. And there's a game too. It's fun Mcbarney Miller. Um what else? Apparently

there's a book called The Barren Stain Bears Get the Gimmis. Yeah, have you read that one? I don't remember that one. I read the barren Stein Bears get the gimmis. Okay, well this is at an alternate universe. Uh no, I never heard of that one. Apparently it's all about teaching. It's it's teaching kids how to um not be a little brat's right, and to just chill out and be happy with your two sticks that your parents gave you

to rub together. Uh. This last one or this last bit I think was pretty interesting on how to how to be involved in what they're watching. The three ways co viewing it just means you're not even discussing it. You're just sitting there and watching it with them like menacingly, menacing overlord. Just cross your arms and look at them. Everyone, So just relax. Do you feel like you should be

watching this? Active mediation or instructive guidance is when you are watching and discussing things and saying, you know, like what we're talking about talking about these ads or whatever the content is. And then there's restrictive mediation, which is you can't watch that. Yeah, And apparently active and restrictive mediation has been shown to decrease kids asking for stuff, which is ultimately what the parent wants it's like, I don't care how b should get. I just don't want

to hear you ask for another thing. That's what we're really after. If you get thin as a byproduct, great, you got anything else? I don't think so either. Oh. I did think this final bit was pretty interesting that you had in here that um they found that things the tactics to sell kids junk food have the same effect. So if you put carrots and celery and McDonald's rapper, the kids are going to be more apt to eat it than if you just gave them carrots and cellery.

Though that's frightening, and I guess good, I guess, But again it goes to that heart of that thing where it's like you're just teaching kids. McDonald says, eat these carrots, not carrots are great in and of themselves. All right, Well that's advertising. The kids make of it what you will. Yeah, I'm gonna go walk out into traffic. Uh. If you want to know more about advertising to kids, well dig

into the internet, because it's all over the place. I found a great site called the PBS Kids Don't Buy It, and it teaches kids how to discern ads at a younger age. It's neat you might want to start there. Uh. And since I said PBS kids, it's time for listener. Man, I'm gonna call this first time writer from a new listener. Hey, guys, new listener, first time writer. My boss used to work for Kinner in the eighties and the early nineties had

some interesting tidbits about Star Wars toys. Kinner had a robin Hood Prince of Thieves collection, remember with the weird accent, that kind of it was a little British sometimes a little southern California kind of came and went. I have to say that I love that movie. When it came out. It's terrible, but it wasn't as good as Men in Tights. Oh, I remember robin Hood and Point Break came out that same summer. Yeah, I don't know why I remember that.

It shoul remember him either. Whatever the heck of a summer. Uh of the robin Hood Prince of Thieves line was repurposed. I can't imagine why. Uh into the rerun of Return of the Jedi and at the time New Power of the Force line of toys, most notable, the Sherwood Forest Place set was simply rebranded the Ewok village and the robin Hood Battlewagon. Uh was altered slightly in the Ewok Battlewagon. It's pretty smart when you think about it. They're all

forest bandits. Um. Also, there was one figure of the robin Hood line. That one figure that was reported repurposed from the original eighty three Return of the Jedi line. The Friar Tuck action figure was a more smooth out version of the Gamorian Guard, the pig like guard in Java's Palace, remember, with a new head plopped on. That sounds about right. I had another listeners send in um a video of Rick Springfield's Star Wars collection that No, I haven't seen it yet, dude, I saw the email,

haven't seen the video. Rick Springfield is the most avid collectors of Star Wars figures, Like he literally has one of a kind figure, the only known one in the world he has. Is it that Boba fette with the missile launch? He does? He has several of those? Apparently He's like I used those toilet paper. Um. Yeah, everyone's while just up, but um, it was. I was impressed

and he was. He's like from the time I was a kid, I collected him and I, uh, it was a little bit older when the Star Wars things came out, Like he always collected things, but when Star Wars came out, he was older, so he started not opening them because he was over playing with them. But he really just loved the packaging. I thought they were beautiful and cool and has this amazing collection. How do you recommend? Just YouTube Rick Springfield Star Wars. There's some really big Star

Wars magine there too. There. It's very jealous of Rick Springfield, right, did I had Ricky's collection? All right? Anyway? That was from He just says, cheers from Cincinnati, Ohio. That doesn't count. That's dup. Well, thank you anonymous listener who apparently he's worried about being fired for revealing Kenner Cincinnata. If you want to get into to this, you can tweak to us at Well. You can hang out with me at Josh M Clark on Twitter. You can also go to

s Y s K podcast. You can hang with Chuck at Charles W. Chuck Bryant and at Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email the Stuff podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. That's always joined us to her home on the web. Stuff you should Know dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it How Stuff Works dot com