Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck, Ben, Dave gid Yo.
All right. So this is one that is a little frustrating because I found over the years, I think we both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow ups to legal matters. Like there's a lot of hay made when a lawsuit is put out put out there or introduced or whatever, but then it's always so hard
to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that in July twenty twenty two, a man in California filed a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of skittles, and because specifically an additive called titanium dioxide class action lawsuit that has health risks. And I tried to find a follow up and what I saw that that was dismissed.
Oh was it? I didn't see that.
In November twenty two without prejudice, and that which means a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer last year, in twenty twenty three, like a year later again in California, has sued again, and I don't know the status of that one.
The reason they're picking on skittles in particular, it seems like is because back in twenty sixteen, Skittle said to the world, while I should say, Mars Zinc said to the world, Hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore. We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles. And here we are in twenty twenty four and Skittles still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't
even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant f you to all the people who filed lawsuits against Mars for that.
What I don't get is why they would make some big announcement about getting it out of their candy and then keeping it there.
I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was in charge during that period is no longer there.
I bet you're right.
They were like, uh, we have bad news, like we can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.
And he said, what, so should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes, all right. Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust. It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium. But when it reacts interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent. Yes, and a lot of processed foods. Not this is not we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit. But this stuff's in a lot of stuff.
It is. And the reason it's a whitening agent is because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light. So it appears white, but it reflects it so well. It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen, and it's used as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen UV protected in other stuff like makeup and toothpaste. Right, so it is everywhere. The thing is is titanium dioxide. It's a naturally occurring thing.
Like you said, titanium is natural, So titanium dioxide it's just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen.
Right.
The problem with it being used in the food industry and personal care industry is that it's used in a specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles, and we're talking like nano nanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide of appear in your food. Are about one hundred nanometers across. Your hair is eighty thousand nanometers across. And because they're so small, they can scatter light. Right, that's the appropriate response to that. They can scale. The smaller they are,
the more effective they are at scattering lights. So that's why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But the concern is because they're so small, it can go to all sorts of different parts of your body, and if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit.
Yeah, they can get in the bloodstream. What I want to know is what does that stuff do for a skittle.
I don't know, because it's not like Skittles is white?
No white skittle?
No, I think there actually is a white like special skittle, like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Yeah, maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know.
Okay, So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the blood stream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean any organ but especially when you're talking about when of your filtering mechanisms in your body, like your liver or your kidney. If you're trying to filter things and more bad things are going in, that's a problem.
Yeah, So we should say specifically, there is no pure viewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your liver or your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's no evidence whatsoever, and that's what the Titanium Producers Association says. They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association website says there's nothing that says that food grade titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to
put that out there everybody. That's what they say.
But yees.
So it makes sense to be skeptical because while we're talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively mouse studies, and they do cause damage in mice for sure, and they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you
eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on the human body, as well as the corporate history of food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem. So it's it's good to use your brain. But also you know, no, like there's no like smoking gun here that says yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your
liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet, but it's it's possible enough that people are like, just get that out of there. Who cares how extra white you're You're well, you're not eating tide, but your your colgate is you.
Just co o a, you did it both sides, co o A. That's amazing.
That explains why I feel faint.
All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh some smelling salts and we'll be right back. As why why sk tough?
You should know, definitely should know.
I'm not childs of each.
Ski.
All right, So you're probably wondering, well, we have an FDA. What do they say about all this? Oh?
Yeah, they're great.
The FDA says that, uh, titanium dioxide is a food addits of the food. Great stuff doesn't exceed. If it doesn't exceed one percent of the food's weight, then it's all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In twenty fifteen, Dunkin Donuts said, you know what, we're gonna use titanium dioxide anymore. Uh, and our powdered tuggar toppings. The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying
we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it, let's pan it.
They are always a person in line saying that can harm people who we care about.
Yeah, exactly, dang socialists, nanny state. So, uh, you mentioned that the Titanic, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey, you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in such small levels, it's not a big deal. And like, you know, you'd have to be a real small kid to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't know kids who eat skitt holes.
Right, Yeah, that's a big one. So the Environmental Working Group released a paper a little while ago that said that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets, is an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more impact that accumulation's probably going to have. And it has been shown to make it through the gut, like it does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system.
But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food grade titanium or yeah, food grade titanium dioxide called E one seven to one. Uh, it can't have more than four of titanium dioxide to it in the nanoparticles, I should say, and that I guess poison dot Org, which is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that.
I thought that was the band's website. Is that not right?
No, there's this poison. So the National Poison Control Center says that one tenth of one percent of the titanium dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just one percent of the food by weight, So a very very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it into the rest of your body. So there's just just again two ways of looking at this. It does get out of your gut and into the rest of your body, where it may accumulate if you enough skittles or starbursts
or something like that. But there's no studies yet that show that it actually causes any harm.
My whole deal is like, just why just don't put it in there and no one will ever notice or care.
Frankly, if don't Donuts can do without it for their powdered donuts, then you can do it for skittles, because there's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer. Everyone else says it's a color enhancer, so maybe it has something to do with the flavor of skittles. I don't know. I also saw that if it is used as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard, and I don't remember any mustard flavored skittles.
Gross.
That could be pretty gross. It could also be great. I haven't decided yet, but yeah, I'm with you. I don't understand why it has to be in there anything, Like.
I think it's one of those things where no consumer would notice. And of course I say that, and then a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid, weird lump, like a pebbly brick, right with hair.
Growing on it?
Like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I mean I don't need skittles anyway. And Ruby didn't eat a lot of candy. Uh, it's weird.
Yeah, I've always like candy. I like fruit candy, I like chocolate candy. I do like skittles. I love star bursts. They have it in there too, So yeah, I mean I'm probably riddled with with titanium dioxide.
I think you'll be right.
You got anything else?
I got nothing else?
Okay, Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now, and short stuff is out.
You Know.
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