Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and there's Jerry, and dats here and spirit and this is short stuff, which should be spelled exactly like it's spelled right now. Yeah, Should another simple spelling movement come along, Chuck?
Yeah, although they may drop an F.
Yeah, you're right, although that could be stuff, but there is no such word as stuff, so I guess it wouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, But that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the idea that English is a really tough language to learn, and that there have been many movements over the years to simplify things and spell things out a little more phonetically. And back in nineteen oh six, none other than Teddy Roosevelt, who was president, got into this idea, and he was a very very popular president who had some other very famous people on board at the time as well.
Right Andrew Carnegie, Mark Twain, William James, the father of
psychology and named Supreme Court justice. Basically, a lot of thinkers in America came together to basically put their might behind this what was another progressive movement at the time, and Teddy Roosevelt was an enthusiastic supporter of it, He issued a what he later called an experiment, an executive order to the printer of the United States, the official one, and said, all federal documents from now on have to be printed using the simplified spelling of these three hundred words,
and gave them a list. And it ended up not going very well at all.
Yeah, I mean, this kind of just goes to show you that you can be super super popular as a public figure or as even a politician, and if you come up with an idea that people think are dumb, even back then, they turn on you pretty quickly. Because people hated this idea. He was all over the newspapers being made fun of all of a sudden. And this is a guy got like a lot of great press, right. He was in you know, political cartoons. It was one where he was laying knocked out in a boxing ring
with a anthropomorpize dictionary had just knocked him out. And Congress certainly didn't like it because they he had sidestepped Congress with this executive order and they were not having it.
No, not at all, Like you said, he was mocked for it, and his political opponents in Congress just jumped all over this because he was a beloved president, like you said, and there wasn't a lot that they could use against him, and this was great. So because there was an election coming up, He's like, Okay, I'm backing off you guys win. We'll just stay with the dumb rules of grammar and spelling that English has, and let's talk about that a little bit.
You want to, Well, they actually even brought a bill against him where they cited Websters like, they demanded that all federal documents be written according to Webster's or other generally accepted dictionaries of the English language, which is ironic because Webster himself was a proponent of making spelling simpler at one point, and it was also something I know that we've talked about. Benjamin Franklin had also championed this earlier in his career.
Yeah, and both Noah Webster and Benjamin Franklin had already found out that people don't like the concept of simplifying English for some reason, even though there's reason after reason to do this. Chuck, you want to talk a little bit about how English is kind of screwy.
Well, yeah, I mean, anyone who's ever learned the English language knows that the spelling doesn't make a lot of sense a lot of times, and the rules contradict one another all the time. It's a tough language to learn. And you can look no further than the final three letters G H T at the end of words like kought and though and draft and drought to know that there's just doesn't seem to be any rise, rhyme or reason.
You know, if you learn English and learn how to spell in English, you're basically just taught, like you just got to memorize this stuff. There are no rules of which are going to help.
You out exactly. And that is the reason why I didn't realize this. But spelling bees are almost entirely an American phenomenon. They're almost entirely in English speaking phenomenon because it's so tricky to spell English words, and that even countries that do hold spelling bees typically hold them as English spelling bees. Yeah, which is really saying something about how difficult it is to remember all this stuff in spelling the English language.
Yeah, although to be fair, they're spelling, they're not spelling things like draft, you know.
No, No, they're spelling anti disestablishmentarianism.
Yeah, I think that one's not too hard.
Actually no it's not, but it's the one that always gets thrown out because it's fun to say.
The hard part for me would be, uh, doing it in my brain. I would have to write it down, I think Itily was a champion spelling bee.
Kid, as was my gal.
Yeah, so they're both great spellers. I'm an okay speller, but yeah, I would have to write it down. I have a hard time doing that in my brain.
Yeah, way hard. It's much harder to do it just in your brain, for sure. I think you have to be like a visual person to be able to kind of see it in front of you too. That's got to help. Yeah. The thing I think that I don't know if we said it or not, but the group with Andrew Carnegie and Mark Twain, they founded what was known as the This is Official the Simplified Spelling Board.
And what the Simplified Spelling Board was trying to do, as far as they were concerned, was just kind of hasten what was already an organic, naturally occurring process of making it easier to spell English words. And a really good example that I saw was that in Elizabeth in England or Bethan, depending on where you are speaking English. Fish was spelled fyshe and at some point, naturally, there was no board telling everyone to do this, which I
think ultimately is what people's problem is with this. It's somebody saying we're going to do this now. Just naturally, it happened that people started spelling fish fish instead. It makes way more sense. It is easier to spell f y. She was clearly the invention of a madman, so that
happens anyway. I mean, that's also the reason why in the United States we don't spell like honor or color with an ou like they do in the UK or Canada or Australia, or we don't spell program with an extra me at the end, because at some point the people in the United States said, we're just going to start spelling this. It's just easier this way. And so what the simplified spelling board was saying is like, we're just trying to move all this along to its inevitable conclusion.
Do we have to wait like a thousand years before it just happens on its own.
No, but we do have to wait a very short time while we take a break and then short stuff will be right back.
So again, this is not the first and only time people have proposed simplified spelling. There have also been other initiatives to not only simplify the spelling of English words, but also to kind of straighten out some of the weirder rules of grammar too. And there's a guy named
James Ruggles. He was an Ohio teacher, and he said, we're gonna spell no k n o W the way that it should be spelled n oe in the present tense, like I know chuck is great, but instead of k n e W for past tense, we're gonna say nod, like I've always knowed that chuck is great.
Yeah, So you know, they're in presents part of the problem. If you're a literate human and you look at something phonetically or say something like I knowed that it makes you sound like you're, you know, maybe not so smart, right, So you know that's that's kind of the issue, is that the people always pushing for this are probably like the hyper literate, and they're not gonna push for something that looks like it's not well.
Yeah, but what's weird is you do have occurrences of people in history like Mark Twain and Andrew Carnegie like it's weird. Yes, there's like a roadblock in that. Yes, people who are well versed in English literacy do do see this as kind of like there's something wrong with it. But those are also the same people who have kind of started initiatives in the past. So I don't know what the deal is. I don't know if we're ever going to do this to you.
I don't know. I mean, what I wonder is how far Twain and that board was pushing things, because it's one thing to spell you know, thought or though thcho, which is how people do it on text now or thhoe maybe, and then to say like I knowed that guy, you know what I mean?
Yeah, No, I do know you mean.
Yeah, one's a little further I think than the other.
Well, so yeah, I'm not exactly how farther or pushing it either, but I do know that they backed off big time after Teddy Roosevelt got his his campaign hat handed to him by Congress, right, Yeah, So it just died down for decades, and it wasn't until the seventies that it came up again from a guy named Edward ron Thaler, and he was the chairman of the American
Literacy Council. He not only saw a need to simplify spelling for the sake that it could be simplified, he traced the problem of having trouble learning English and a literacy rates to dropping out of school and then turning to a life of crime. So to him, simplifying English would actually help alleviate America's crime problem, which was a big deal from the seventies to the nineties.
Yeah, and he thought, like, the computers are coming along now, this will be the perfect time to make this transition because we can have computer programs sort of just convert this stuff automatically into the simplified form, and then before you know it, everyone will just sort of, you know, adopt this as it becomes the regular thing in computers.
Right, So, America seems to be doing pretty good. There's a ninety nine percent literacy rate among Americans. That seems to be like fairly where it is throughout the English speaking world. But something that I didn't realize check that that just talks about basic literacy, like just being able to read, like you can sound out words and read, you understand the basic building blocks of English grammar. Ninety
nine percent of Americans know how to do that. But when you talk about functional literacy, it drops precipitously.
Yeah, this number surprises me me too. Apparently twenty one percent of Americans are functionally illiterate, which, yeah, that's that seems high, but you know, if that's the stat that's the stat.
Yeah, And to be functionally illiterate means that you can read, but you have trouble navigating life as an adult in the English speaking world, say like reading tax forms or something like that, because you're basically literate but not functionally literate. Yeah. Twenty one percent of Americans, by the way, equal seventy one million people.
Yeah, that's a lot of folks. So yeah, I mean there's a case to be made. I think people are doing it on their own a little bit, like I said, through texts, But I don't I don't think, like you know, proper graded spelling is ever going to change that much. I think that ship has kind of sailed.
Yeah for sure. Before we go, thank you very much to History dot Com, Time, Paleo, Future, Smithsonian, Uh, and the Uncle John's Bathroom Reader, who is takes this to me, Oh god, when I was probably fifteen. We're finally getting around to do it.
Shocking. Yeah, this is how many years later is that? Oh?
Like Tony?
Okay, great, Happy birthday.
Short stuff is out.
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