Short Stuff: Jack O'Lanterns and Sleepy Hollow

dangling from behind you. That's right, nicely so dumb, I know, I think we explained Jack Lanards at some point. We didn't know we did. We did a Halloween episode that we could either redo or re release. That was good. Yeah, but we definitely talked about Jack Lenerds in that one. I think, well, we're gonna do it again, okay, uh yeah, because I don't really recall the story. But the whole idea of Jack o Lanards is that they're based on a Irish legend of a man named Stingy Jack who's fascinating,

but you probably wouldn't have wanted to be friends with him. No, not Stingy Jack, which is how I read it in my head. Four times until just now when I said stingy No, I finally figured it out, because it's pretty obvious where he gets that name. But it was still very thick headed and saying stingy Jack in my head. But Stingy well, he was stingy because his legend has it. Uh, Stingy Jack was hanging around, said the devil comes walking by and he says, hey, devil, let's go have a

cool one. You could use that. And the devil said, sure, let's do it. So Stingy Jack at the end of this, uh, this little drinking sessh says, I'm a little light devil, I don't have Uh, I forgot my wallet. If you could help me out here, uh, turn yourself into a coin so we can pay and get out of here. So the Devil's like, all right, no harm, no foul, I'll turn myself into a coin. And then Jack says,

I've got you. I'm gonna put you in my pocket and I'm going to put you next to that silver cross and you were just going to stay there as a little coin. Sorry devil. Yeah. No word on how he got away without paying the drinks in the first place, but he got his drinks, and he got to keep the devil coin. Uh. And then finally the devil's like, come on, dude, I have things to do. Please let me out of your pocket. And stingey Jack said, okay, I'll let you out, but you have to promise not

to bug me for a full year. And the devil said, fine, whatever, I don't care, and Sol said, you invited me for drinks, right, He said, well, I didn't realize you're gonna bother me. Um. So the devil, being a fine upstanding devil, uh, said I will honor that agreement and left Jack alone. Uh. Sometime around the next year, Jack got in touch with this old friend devil, who by this time I had forgotten that Jack had kept him trapped as a coin in his pocket. Said hey, you want to hang again?

Devil said sure, And I guess somehow stinge Jack got it in the devil's head that the devil should climb a tree and pick him a piece of fruit. And that didn't go according to plane as far as the devil's concerned. There did it? No, it didn't, because the devil climbs up the tree and checks like, I got you again, devil. Look, I've carved the sign of the Cross into the tree bark, so you can't come down, and um, how about this, don't bother me for ten years? Right?

And not only that, if I die, you can't take my soul. And the Devil's like, good Lord, this guy really drives a hard bargain. But okay, fine, I'll agree to all these terms. And not only will I agree to him, being the devil, a fine upstanding devil that I am, I will honor these terms. I will not go back on my word. And he didn't. He didn't because Sinci Jack died and the devil didn't try to take his soul. As a matter of fact, wouldn't let him in Hell, and God wouldn't let him in heaven.

So Cinci Jack was left to roam the earth. That's right. And if you're wondering what all the us rigamarole has to do with Jack A Lanard's, he was sent off in the dark, had, like you said, couldn't go to heaven, couldn't go to hell, stuck in between, and had a burning coal to light his way, and he put that coal into a carved out turn up. And he was known by the oirish as Jack of the lantern. Yes, but the Irish never said the word of in their

entire lives, the entire history of the Irish. So that's where we get Jack a lantern, that's right. Uh. And that turnip. Depending on where you were in the world and this legend moved around, that turn up might become a potato, it might become a beat if you're in England or or if you're in the United States. One thing, we have a lot of us pumpkins. Yes, so when you're carving a Jack o lantern, you're paying homage to a double dealing satan advantage taking uh Irish guy named

Stingia Jack. Okay, I love it. So there's part one. We're gonna take a break and we're gonna mix it up just a little bit and go tangentially. Tangentially that's absolutely right, Jack Leonard related right after this. Okay, Chuck, we're back and we're talking about now nothing that has to do with check. Well, I guess a little bit like you said, tangentially um one of the better, well not better, one of the first ghost stories in American history, I think one of the I mean, there's of course

been a lot of great ghost stories since. But the legend of Sleepy Hollow is great. It is great. But if you've read other Washington Irving short stories, he's actually written much scarier stuff than that. That's a little more tongue in cheek than some of the other scarier stuff he's written. All right, fair enough, it's fine though. Uh So, the legend of Sleepy Hollow concerns the Headless Horseman. And I think, if you're a kid um, even if all you ever saw was that Disney cartoon, the idea of

the Headless Horseman is utterly terrifying. Yes, totally, absolutely, one of the more terrifying figures in American history American lore agreed. Uh. And it takes place in the real Sleepy Hollow in Westchester County, New York. And it is about a new man in town, the sort of lanky, goofy schoolmaster, Ichabod Crane, who is in love with in courts Katrina or all

thinks he's in love with Katrina von Tassel. Uh. And when he is rebuff at a party by Katrina, he that headless horseman appears seemingly out of nowhere and chases him down. Uh and he vanishes. Yeah, Kabob Crane has never found or heard from. Um, there's that jack O Lanard because you know he's he throws that flaming jack O Lanard in the cartoon right. Well, in the story, the headless horseman throws his head and connects with Akabod

Crane's head and knocks him off of his horse. And um, all that's found near the spot the next day is a smashed pumpkin. So it's not entirely clear whether it was a headless horseman or somebody playing a prank or whatever. But um, if it was all in Iikabod Crane's imagination. But the upshot is is that he was never heard

from again, which is pretty mysterious. Um. The thing that's so cool about the legend of Sleepy Hollow though, and what makes it so interesting is that Washington Irving, like kind of inner wove fact and fiction to come up with this tail um quite brilliantly. Actually. I think it's one of the reasons why it is so so creepy is because you hear like, oh wait, there's a real town called Sleepy Hollow in New York and stuff like that. You know, I wonder if you go to sleepy hollow.

If there's a any sort of touristy things you can do, oh, I would guess. So I wonder what they do. I don't know, but I guarantee there's a there's a headless horseman. Yeah. And I'm not sure if it's a thriving tourist industry but all but it's a pretty respectable tourist industry they got going on there, especially this time of year. Yeah, but you're right, he wove a lot of real things in their real locations. The old Dutch church, um, the churchyard,

Major Andre's Tree. Uh. There may have been a real Ichabod Crane. I mean there was. We just don't know if there was any connection. I think the New York Times said there was a Colonel ichabad B. Crane who was alive at the same time as Irving, who was a marine. Uh enlisted in eighteen o nine and served for forty five years in the Marines. But they really don't know if they met each other, or if that name was just sort of a weird coincidence. I don't

think it was a coincidence. Um. Apparently Washington Irving was a bit of a collector of weird Yankee names. Um, and one of his stories he mentioned an actual New Yorker named preserved Fish. But I think they would have pronounced it preserved fish. But it's preserved fish when you see it written down. Um, And so they were all. The other kind of bit of of info that that connects them is that they were both stationed at Fort Pike,

I believe around the same time. So they may not have ever met, but um, Washington Irving probably did find the names, Like I am using that at some point. Yeah, and he's, uh, you know, there've been stories of headless horsemen through the years. I think the Grim Brothers, which we did a pretty great episode on two years ago. Yea was that a two parter. Well, one was on the Grim Brothers, the other was on folk Tales in general, I think yeah, yeah, Um, they wrote about headless horsemen

other writers in other countries. I think, um, in Holland and I think in Ireland there were other legends of headless horsemen. So it's definitely something that he you know, he had his influences. Uh. He was also a friend of Sir Walter Scott, and in Walter Scott wrote The Chase, which was really just sort of a adaptation of a German poem The Wild Huntsman by Gottfried Berger. Uh, and this was I think there was a headless horseman in

that too, right, Yes, there was. He UM had he was chased around by the hounds of hell for all eternity basically, So it wasn't like an entirely new thing. But one of the things, one of the other things that makes it so creepy is that Washington Irving took a piece of actual like history of local New upstate New York history, UM and used that as the basis for his headless horseman. He said, it was a Heshian mercenary, and there were Hessian mercenaries fighting in the Revolutionary War

alongside the English. Wasn't it the English they were fighting with? I think it was. Yeah. Well, actually they're probably fighting on either side because they were mercenaries and they didn't really care. But um, in this case, there was a Hessian mercenary who, at the Battle of White Plains around Halloween in seventeen seventy six, got his head taken off by a cannon ball. And it was such a remarkable, unlikely event that UM people wrote down in their journals

about this. I can imagine the entire battle stopped and everybody went over and looked because that was just such a nuts so thing that happened. But that was an actual event, and Washington Irving used that as the basis

for his Headless Horsemen. That's right. Uh. And all of this to say is that maybe one reason why it was so popular to begin with, because he was weaving in these stories of folklore that other people had known, all these real places from the region that people knew were real places, and that probably made it just a bit more interesting than your average ghost story for the time. Definitely, And it is a great ghost story, everybody, So go read it. Okay, Okay, are you asking me? Okay, I'm

looking for some support here. Yeah, everybody go read it. Do what Josh says. So, since Chuck said that everybody short, stuff is out. Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.