Selects: The Disappearance of the Yuba County Five

this episode. So if this one strikes your fancy, go check out the Yuba County Five podcast from Mopac Audio. And in the meantime, I hope you enjoy our episode on it. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. So this is stuff you should no. Yes, how you doing, Chuck? Do I look tired? Do you seem a little a little LOGI tired? Man? What's going

on with you? I've just been waking up like too early for no reason, going to bed too late though, because if you go to bed early and wake up early. You're fine, well, going to bed late, sometimes not getting enough sleep, then going trying to go to bed super early to make up for it. But I don't know about this making up for a sleep depisode. I don't buy all that. I feel like we talked about it before that there's that that that doesn't actually work. Yeah,

I'm just tired, that's all I can say. Sorry, man, Sorry, I'll live all right. I'm glad we killed some time before we got into this very mysterious sad story. It's a good one, though, isn't it. It is extraordinarily sad, probably the saddest true well, I don't know it's up there as far as true life true crime. Disappeared his go um, and it's the one about Gary Matthias. That's what they call it. They call it the Gary Matthias disappearance.

But that really doesn't do it much justice, or it doesn't serve it well, because it was a lot more than Gary Matthias involved. Yeah, I've seen it more so called the Uba County five. But you know, I guess it just depends on where you're looking. I had not run across that. Oh yeah, Oh god, that makes me, wonder what all stuff I missed? Well, you know there were five guys, what so, No, there actually were five guys. There were five friends. Um, Gary Matthias was one of them,

and there were four others. There was Ted Weir who was the oldest, he was thirty two. There was Jackie Hewitt he was the youngest, he was twenty four. There was Jack Madruga. I'm not sure what Ah was, but he was definitely between twenty four and thirty two. I'll tell you Bill Sterling. And then again Gary are Matthias And those five guys were a set of friends and they met at the Yuba City UH Vocational Rehabilitation Center for the what you would call today UM cognitively impaired

or cognitively challenged. Yeah, because three of these guys, UM. Of course, this one article you have from nine seventy eight doesn't use appropriate terms anymore. But three of these guys were intellectually disabled UM or developmentally disabled. Not an exact like it's kind of hard to get an exact DIA diagnosis from these terms, really, but h. Madruga was undiagnosed. But according to his mom, uh, he was generally thought

of as she said, as quote slow end quote. And then Matthias was the only one not diagnosed with a developmental disability, but he was under drug treatment for schizophrenia. Right, So all five of these guys had some sort of

challenge going on in their life, right, exactly. So, so there's a lot of details you can kind of glean because you're absolutely right, Like reading the really great Washington Post article, which is basically the comprehensive document on the case from UM, you can kind of glean uh an idea picture of these guys. So they're just five friends,

thickest thieves. Even within this this tight little group of friends, there's subgroups of even tighter friends like um Ted Weir and Jackie Hewitt were particularly close, and Bill Sterling and Jack Madrugo were particularly close. Um. They had like they were just these these five guys known as the Boys, right. They all lived at home with their parents. They were

always going to live at home with their parents. It was just what what the plan was, um, Like I think Ted ted Weir had a had a job, um as a janitor and then later on as a snack bar clerk. Um. Basketball, Yeah, that was another one, and they actually all played together on the basketball team for the Vocational Rehab Center, basically like their hang out, the place where they hung out. They played basketball on that team.

But um Jack madrew God's worth saying head a driver's license, whereas three of the other ones didn't, although Gary Mathias did as well. So these guys, they just they were friends. They like had a tight kinship together. They had very normal, reliable lives that were basically home centric, and when they were out doing stuff, you could expect them home for dinner kind of thing, like it was just a given. Yeah,

I think that's that's super worth pointing out here. Early on, as they saw them more than one place, they said they referred to their lives as very predictable and scheduled, which is why this interesting. The events that occurred on February nineteen seventy eight were very very unusual. Right, So on February eight, the boys that's what their families all call them, because apparently all their families were at least in touch, if not friendly, with another. Yeah, I think

they kind of supported one another. It sounds like as much as anyone did in ninety eight. Uh So, on this night, February twenty four, there was a Friday night. Um, the boys left their homes around Maryville and Ubis City in California, and they traveled I think about fifty miles north to cal State Chico which is now called Chico State University, and they went to go see their team. The cal State l A team beat up on cal State Chico and cal State l A actually eighty four,

which would have pleased the boys tremendously. So they went to the game. That much is known, and then they left the game. That much is known too, because around ten o'clock when they left the game, they went to a convenience store called Bear's Market and they bought some stuff. Yeah, apparently that they were trying to kind of close up, and so the clerk was a little bit annoyed that

they showed up. And these are the kind of details that aren't so important, but it just shows that, you know, they really did their investigating pretty thoroughly, including well, we'll we'll get to sort of the the lead investigator in a minute. But yeah, they bought just a few things. They bought a Hostess cherry pie, um, a Langendorf lemon pie, snickers bar, a Marathon bar, a couple of pepsis, and a court and a half of milk, which is to say,

it's not like they were stocking up on food. They just got some uh some some snacks, right exactly for the drive back home fifty fifty miles about an hour. Yeah. The thing is is they they would have been fully expected back home, not just because there was you know, this was it wasn't like any of them to spend the night away, right except Matthias. He he had friends and he would stay out with friends sometimes. But um, the other four like they slipped in their bed at

home every night. That's just what they did. So their families fully expected them to come back. Um. And another reason why they expected them to come back was because the next day, Saturday, they had a basketball game for their vocational rehab team, the Gateway Gators, and they they apparently were all extraordinarily excited about this game. Yeah, which again is just another point being made that there was these guys had every intention on coming home super excited

about the game. I think Matthias even was kind of driving his mom a little batty, saying, you know, don't let me oversleep. Got this big game. Apparently the guys had their clothes laid out. Uh, and they were all super excited about this basketball game. Uh. And then they don't come home, and you know, these parents and grandparents start waking up at various points in the middle of the night or in the morning and start getting in touch with one another, you know, all verifying like your

kids not there, your your kids not there. And they started to freak out. And by eight o'clock that evening, I believe the mother of Madruga actually finally called the cops. Yeah, and the cops, um, we're kind of I don't have the impression that they were like, well this is I'm sure, this is fine. I think they got involved pretty early on. But things really picked up when I think on a Tuesday, that was that was Saturday night that they finally called

the cops. And on Tuesday, Uh, Jack Madruga's car was discovered, and it was discovered in a very very unusual place, right, Yeah, what was this thing in old Mercury, Montego Yeah, sixty nine Montego a land yacht is what it was. And they found it. Um. And this was, by the way, this is Jack Madruga's prized possession. Like no one else drove the thing. He took pristine care of it. It

was like his baby. His car was right, So to find it abandoned with the window one of the windows rolled down up a mountain road, which was, um, I think, seventy miles away from the basketball game, in a different direction away from their house. Right, so the basketball game was north of their homes. This was east of southeast of the basketball game and up a mountain road. It was extremely bizarre and also I'm sure quite worrying. When the families were already worried, I think finding this car

like this probably really set them into panic mode. Well yeah, and here's where, uh in this article is very clear to say from that point on, nothing made any kind of sense. So here's a few things about the car that definitely don't add up. You might think, all right, there, you know, there was a snowstorm, so they drove up here and they got stuck. Apparently that is not true.

The car stopped at about the snow line, and they said they did confirm that the wheels had spun some, but the car wasn't stuck, and these five dudes could have pushed it free pretty easily. Apparently, right, this thing number one, thing number two is that it had a quarter tank of gas still, so they didn't run out of gas. Right then when the cops hot wired the car, the keys were gone. Uh. And when the cops heartwired the cars started up immediately. There wasn't any engine trouble

or anything like that. Yeah. The last thing they found were all these maps of California and um, so it's not like they had no way of knowing where they were. And then they found all the you know, all the rappers from the food items. Uh. The only thing, ironically that wasn't fully eaten was the marathon bar um, living up to his reputation. Right. See, I guess the toughest candy bar to get through. Yeah, that's that's how they build it, some weird cartoon cowboy. Yeah, so you know,

that's the deal. The underside of the car wasn't damaged, which they say was pretty interesting because on this road, apparently there were a lot of deep, deep ruts. This thing kind of hangs low anyway, has a low hanging muffler, has these five dudes inside, these grown men. Uh. And there was no damage under the underside of this car,

which means, you know a couple of things. If you kind of are surmising, which is the either the driver kind of knew where they were going and drove through the darkness with a lot of precision, or they just maybe drew drove really slow. Yeah, I think it was the ladder because I think Madruga did was probably would have been very unhappy that his car was on this road now. So I just took it slow and took it super slow. I saw somewhere that there wasn't even a large mud spot on it. It was they had

taken it that easy. Yeah, And apparently Madruga uh didn't like the cold, he didn't like camping, so he wouldn't have known that road. It's not like there's a lot else to do up there but that, right, And evidently, uh, none of the boys were big into outdoorsy type stuff. Oh yeah, that's a really good point, Chuck. So like that none of them had any connection to that, to that area, and certainly not to that mountain. One of them, I think Sterling, Bill Sterling had been had gone camping

with his family there eight years before. Yeah, and he didn't even like I think they went back again and he was like, no, I don't want to go right, So he didn't like the outdoors, he didn't like the cold. And then I think ted uh Ted Weir had gone deer hunting or something once with friends way west of the area. Um but still, I mean enough that you could that was it was a lead that the cops

were to chase down. Um. But but then too, he didn't enjoy himself and he didn't like the woods either, So there was no let's go hang out in the woods kind of thing going on here. Just everything about the fact that they found this car and where they found it, in the state they found it in was really bizarre and really worrying. Should we take a break? I think we should. Man, all right, you and I are going to go hang out in the woods and we'll be back right up to this. So I've never

swept the woods before. That was really interesting, right, It's not spick and span out here. So um, So they find the car, and when they find the car, Chuck. I think it was the next night after they had gone missing, a storm blew into the area and it dumped like almost a foot of snow on the mountain. This is February in the mountains in California. UM, I would guess the Sierras, is what it sounds like, right, So, yeah, Cheek is in the Chicos, in the Sierra Nevadas. I

think it's north of Sacramento. So it would be very very cold and the snow would be pretty tough to get through. Um So, but they still tried. They got guys on horseback, they got helicopters out, they looked for him, but they found nothing. They found not one bit of of um and not a single trace of these guys after just the car and that was it. Yeah, the snow certainly didn't help anything because it would not be

until June. On June four, after this thing, you know, the mountain faws out somewhat when these uh Sunday you know motorcycle bikers, they'll go right around the mountains. They went into an old Forest service trailer camp at the end of a road and said, do you smell something that smells like perhaps a dead body, And sadly it

was Ted Weir. And this is where things get even stranger. Yeah, so the I think the trailer caught their attention, but what caught their attention even further was that a window had been broken to get into the trailer and then yeah, like you said, what really called their attention was the smell in the sight of of ted weirds decomposing body. But what got what made it very, very weird is one he's wrapped in sheets tucked under his head in a way that like he couldn't have possibly tucked himself.

So somebody had tucked him in like that and he ted weird been a portly fellow. Um. Cynthia Gorney, who wrote the Washington Post article on this this case in calls him, um, beer belly handsome, which I've never heard those words put together in my entire life. I think that's what I am. Sure, sure i'd call you beer belly foxy. Okay, okay, so um, but he was beer belly hands he was. He was a thick guy. He's

like five ten, two hundred pounds. He had a few extra pounds on him right when they found him, though, he weighed about a hundred and twenty a hundred to a hundred and twenty pounds, which means that between the time that they went missing and the time that he died, he'd lost anywhere between eighty and a hundred pounds. Yeah. A couple of more interesting tidbits. He his leather shoes

were gone and missing completely. Um. On the little night stand by his bed was his his own ring because it had his name engraved on it, his gold yeah, ted his gold necklace, his wallet with money uh. And then weirdly a watch that was not his. It was a gold Waltham watch that had a missing crystal. Uh. And all of the families said that this No, none of our kids had this watch. So that's one interesting tidbit.

And the other is that he had a big, full beard that indicated that he lived in that cabin for anywhere from eight to thirteen weeks. And what's really really underving about the thirteen week one thirteen week number is that if he survived thirteen weeks, that means that he would have died just days before for his body was found. Is that right? Yes? Did you did you do the math?

I did the math because think about so they disappeared on February and he was found June four, So you've got a I really really hope I call on the Saints that that not to have been the case, like that he perhaps died a couple of days before. Yeah, that that he he would have expired like like weeks before that. There was just no chance for him, like if he was destined and doomed to die. I really hope it wasn't a couple of days before they found

his body after starving for thirteen weeks. Yeah. And to cap it off, I don't think we we've mentioned yet, this cabin was almost twenty miles from their car. Oh yeah, so in the middle of the night. Uh. And at this point, this is this is all we know is about Ted in our story, he walked or ran almost twenty miles in four to six ft snow drifts to go to this trailer, where he spent the next two to three months slowly dying. Yeah. So okay, that's pretty

weird in and of itself. And they found that his feet were terribly frost bitten, right, which is why his shoes were off. But again his shoes were missing. Um, what gets even weirder. And this is just where the

case truly turns. Bizarres, one of the Yuba County Sheriff's deputies are under sheriff, called it Bizaar's Hell is like the quote of this story, Um, this this the trailer, the cabin was actually like a forest Service trailer and it was an emergency trailer from what I understand, and it was fully stocked with a year's worth of food that would have kept all five of those boys alive for a year. It was built to keep you alive, yes exactly. And they found it, but they didn't put

it to use. Now, let's not to say that they didn't find the food. There was. There were twelve rations like um sea rations like army meals opened and eaten, but that was it. The other stuff wasn't touched. There was a whole locker of other dehydrated food and like fruit cups and stuff that hadn't been touched at all. Okay, and bear in mind, this is all right here while Ted ted Weir is starving to death. Yeah, so all

this food is there. Uh, they found out The investigators determined that there had not been a fire built, even though there were paperback novels, there was wood, furniture, there were matches, like everything was there to build a fire. And not only that, but there was a propane tank that all they had to do, Uh, it was in another shed outside. All they had to do was open this thing on and they would have actually had gas heat, yes, Het, right,

they didn't. They also didn't even um cover up the broken window that they used to get into the trailer. It's just weird, just bizarre decision after bizarre decision, right. Yeah. So there's one other thing in the trailer that that is, um pretty interesting. They find Gary Matthias's tennis shoes. So Gary mathias Is tennis shoes are there, and um, Ted Weir's shoes leather shoes are missing. Uh. And what they think possibly is that Gary Matthias was in the trailer

with Ted. Ted had terrible frostbite. Ted would have had bigger feet than Gary. Gary probably had frostbite too, so he used Ted's shoes to put them on and go back out into the wilderness. Yeah. I mean they pretty much determined that probably all five of those guys were in here at one point. Okay, so I have to say that's that's I don't think that's true really because that's what I saw. So I think so what I saw was that they so, okay, we should probably tell

everybody that the we should continue on, Chuck. But the like, I think a day after they found Ted Weir, they started looking around the area and they started finding the

other boys remains. Yeah, and you know this is thanks to what I said would be sort of the lead investigator, uh, Uba County Lieutenant Lance Ayers, who actually had gone to high school with We're uh didn't know him that well, but he was really consumed by this case UM and seems sort of obsessed with trying to solve it to the point where he was chasing down leads from psychics.

At one point, Yeah, apparently he met with a psychic who um I told him that the boys were in Araville or had been murdered in a red house either brick or stained in Oraville with the house number UM either four four seven to three or four seven five three. And Lance Ayers was so consumed with this that he actually drove every street of Oraville over a two day period trying to find that house based on the tip

of a psychic. That's how Upset TV came with this case. Yeah, so we've put a pen in our were they all in the cabin debate? We're coming back to that right right, All right, So now we pick up a story of a man named Joseph Shoens, and this is where things get even more odd. So this guy was fifty five years old. He got in touch with the cops because, you know, some strange things that had happened that night

of the disappearance. He was gonna go camping with his family, um on you know, up that road, and so he decided to take his little Volkswagen Beetle um around five thirty that evening just to check out the snow line to see if it was passable and if it was going to be safe to take his family camping that weekend. He found out it was not. Yeah, he got his his car stuck right right above the snow line. And this was to be about fifty yards further than where

that mercury would eventually be found. Right, so he has um he gets out to push a push his Beetle right and has a heart attack. He's he's fifty five in this nine, which means he he lived on nothing but scotch and steak. So you can imagine that that was the outcome, right when you have to push your Volkswagen Beetle and um, he's like in a bad spot right there. He's a phone in the wilderness at the snow line of a mountain eight miles away from help.

That the place that he had stopped to actually get a drink probably of scotch on the way up the mountain to check out the snow line had been eight miles back in the other direction. So he very wisely like leaves his car running with the heater on and just lays there and tries to collect himself and gather himself. And that is a mild heart attack, we should point out, but enough that if you, Joseph shown, you are probably freaking out on not trying to u diminish like his

danger level. But it wasn't like, uh, he was like laying there near death like he would eventually hike eight miles out right after this heart attack. Yes, so he but but while he was laying there trying to like

gather his strength again. So this happened about five thirty And he said a couple hours after that, some um a car at least one but probably two cars, and one of them would have been a pickup truck, came up and had their lights on, and he saw the silhouettes of some men and a woman with a baby, and he said he called out to them, and they ignored it and turned off the lights, and he got back in his car, and he said he laid there for another few hours before he heard some whistling sounds

and some flashlight beams a little further down the mountain, probably about fifty yards. Uh. And that would have been a couple of hours, probably about five or six hours after his um his heart attack. And they think that the second group at least was the the five boys with Gary Matthias. Yeah, and well I think at this

point they were right outside his car window. Yeah. So again he gets out, calls for help, and the whistling sounds stopped, and the flashlights get turned off, and so he goes back in his car and lays back down, and he's like to two groups of people have come up this mountain. I'm having a heart attack here, and somehow calling for help has chased both of both of

them off, both groups off. Yeah. So that that Volkswagen Beetle, like I can tell you from experience, had of like an eight gallon gas tank, so it eventually runs out of gas. Um it Also now they think about it doesn't have a very efficient heating system, like, uh, my first Beetle didn't even have a fan. We just called it the ankle burner, Like if you when you turned on the heat, it literally just opened vents on the floorboard that like came straight off the engine. Wow, that's

that's sharp design. So you wouldn't even like you had to be moving for there to be actually a hot air running through it. Man. But I do know that I had another Beetle that had that did have a little fan end. So let's just presume that Shans had the fan. I'm not going to I'm going to presume the opposite, Okay, I'm going to presume that this was a hellish experience for him in every way, all right.

So eventually the car runs out of gas. Uh, it's still dark, and he manages after this heart attack, like I said earlier, to walk eight miles to a lodge called the Mountain House. Is that where he had gotten the drink? Yeah? All right. So he comes back and they're like Showans, and he's like, don't shows me. You have no idea what I've been through. Uh. It turns

out it's pretty serious. And on the way out he passes this Montego sitting empty in the middle of the road about fifty yards further down the mountain behind his car, where he stopped at the snow line. That's right. So Showance doesn't think much of this. He just is like, Okay, well there's a car in the middle of the road the snow lines here. I'm not the only one who got stuck last night. Those guys are jerks for not

coming to my aid when I shouted for help. And he he doesn't think much of it until all of a sudd on the news he starts seeing these reports of these five guys who went missing the same night that he had his heart attack on the same road, in the same mountain, and he came forward and the cops figured out like that, Joseph Shohnes was probably the last person to see those five guys alive. Uh. Well, yeah, they're silhouettes at least. Yeah. Uh should we take a break?

I think so. Man, all right, we're gonna take a break and get to some more uh sad discoveries right after this. Okay, we're back, Chuck, we are you promised, more said discoveries laid on him. All right. So the next day, after Weird's body had been found, you know, the search is really on at this point. Uh, they found a few things. They found the remains of Sterling

and Madruga there on different sides of the road. Uh, that same road that led to the trailer, but about eleven and a half miles from the car, right, so presumably another what nine miles from the trailer, Yes, which is why I think that they never made it to

the trailer. Put a pin in that. Uh. Madruga had very gruesomely been partially eaten by animals, of course up there on the mountains, probably after he had died though, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it sounds like all of this was they succumbed to nature and then the animals kind of took it from there, right. Uh, So they dragged his body to a stream. Uh, he's laying their face up, they said,

with his hand curled around his watch. And then Sterling was in the woods and very gruesomely they said that his remains were, or his bones I guess, were scattered over about fifty ft yes. And then I think a day or so after that, there was another search party that was launched, and Jackie Hewitt's father insisted on being a part of it, and Jackie Hewitt was still missing, and very sadly his dad was the one who discovered his remains. He found um, his son's I think spine

is what he came upon. Yeah, in the same road, a lot closer to the trailer though, but he right, like just a quarter mile or something, right, Uh yeah, I think that's about right, something very very close to it. And they also found, um, his his clothes. They knew it was him because he was His levies and his shirt were also found nearby, and so were um. He was wearing very stylish platform shoes called get Their's, which

I had to look up and they were actually pretty fresh. Yeah, not nothing the kind of shoes that you want to be hiking around the snowy woods in. No, definitely not. I mean again, platform shoes. They're like, um, you know that that uh that rubbery sold thing that like you find in like Clark's, like Clark Wallabyes, like the thick rubbery so I think it's called crepe sold They were like those, but platform shoes and like a rippley bottom. Yeah,

probably look at these things. Yeah, they're probably the worst, the worst hiking shoes you could ever imagine what these would be good for actually catching ladies? Probably, right, I guess. I mean they're pretty they're pretty cool that that wavy soul though looks so strange. Well I look that up. It's it's to keep your center of balance when you're way up there. Okay, yeah, well that makes more sense. Then. Yeah, there were there was a lot of thought put into

those shoes. Uh. And then finally the next day there was a skull discovered about a hundred yards downhill, and that was the final remains from Jackie Hewitt. So they found everybody, every dy that is, except for Gary Matthias. He was still missing and he's he still is. Actually, if you go on the Yuba County Sheriff's website on

their missing person's page, he's still listed there. Yeah, his shoes were inside again and that trailer um, which you know that They can't say anything for sure, though, but it suggests that he was in there at one point, and they surmised that he may have, like you said, taken them off to where the leather shoes guests, presumably because they were warmer, or his feet were frost bitten and had swollen, so he needed the bigger shoes um

to strike out back outside like he was. He was like, I can't go out there barefoot, and I can't get my tennis shoes on any longer. Yeah, And so to deal with Matthias, like we said, he was under treatment for schizophrenia. UM. He was in the army in Germany, and apparently UM had occasions post war where he had become violent. He was charged with the salt a couple of times. But UM all accounts say that for the at least the last two years he had really been

on his meds. He had been working in his stepdad's business. He was They called him one of the our sterling success cases, as doctor did. Yeah, and they were really, you know, he was really coming around and hadn't had any what is his dad he said, he called them haywire episodes. Yeah, I hadn't had one of those in in a in a couple of years. And the stepfather

said that he had. He had been taking his meds the week he disappeared, right, and his stepfather would know because his stepfather owned a gardening business, and um Gary Mathias had been working with him side by side for a couple of years by that time. So he he also didn't seem like one to really mince words or bs. So I take him for his word that his his son was fully medicated and his schizophrenia was under control.

It sounds like so. Um, the problem is is he hadn't taken his pills with him, so if he did survive, Um, he he had, he had gone without him. He left him at home, and the reason why he left him at home is because he fully expected to be back home a couple hours after he left for the basketball game. Yeah, no more evidence that, Like, it's just really bizarre that they went anywhere but home, and that raised a lot

of questions for the families. Um. Back in the day, the I think Madruga's mom, Mabel, was very vocal about her belief that, um, somebody had either tricked or threatened her son and the other boys into going up that mountain or um it was somebody else was was responsible for for this series of decisions. Yeah. So they learned a few things afterwards that are sort of clues but never ended up solving anything. Um. One is that a snow cat for a service snow cat had been up

that road. I think what the just the day before Yeah yeah, I think and packed in a path of snow so it was walkable. So they you know, it led up to that trailer, and they surmised that the boys may have this might have been the only walkable path forward, so they might have followed that path to

the trailer. Uh. They hired a water witcher at one point and uh he was in Paradise, California, and he said that he fixed his little uh is it dibbening or divining divining rod to pick up human minerals and traces of humans. That led them to another cabin where they found a disposable lighter and this was about three quarters a mile from the trailer where they found the body. And all the parents said, no, like, they didn't have

a lighter like this. The guys didn't carry a lighter, right, So there were a lot of dead ends like that. And then like that, for example, that watch that had been found with Ted weird that it was sing it's crystal and you know, all the families said, that wasn't any of our boys watch. I mean, it could be totally meaningless. It could have been a forest ranger who had left the watch behind because it had broken or something like that. But that's most of the evidence in

this case, or just those just little dead ends. Yeah, that Gary Mathias apparently knew some people, and they're really just sort of reaching at this point new people in Forbestown, which is about halfway between Chico and Uba City, And apparently the turn is easy to miss, and there was some speculation like maybe he was taking his buddies to go see these people he knew got lost, but apparently those friends were like, we hadn't seen him in years,

and it would be really like unlikely that he just would have randomly come to visit. Yeah. I could also see the other boys not wanting to go along with that too, because they had that basketball game in the morning that they all wanted to be um fresh as a daisy for it too. Yeah. And and like Gary Mathias had been badgering his mom, I think, like you said, to make sure he didn't oversleep the next morning because

he was excited about that basketball game too. Yeah. So the thing is, though, Chuck, is even if let's say that is the case, Let's say that they all got a wild hair and they decided to go see Gary Mathias's friend and they started up this mountain because they got lost. They missed the turn off and ended up on a mountain road at the snow line. I thought the car was stuck. What why why would all of them, all of them collectively and individually, say well, let's go

up rather than back down. Let's go up into the snow. Supposedly the snow driss for six eight ft um and even if it was packed down with the snow cat, it doesn't make sense to go forward unless they thought, well, the last side of civilization behind us was too far right, Maybe there's something up here which is a thing that's a that's an economic theory called sunk cost, where you're so invested in something, you're so far along that you don't want to just stop and turn back or or quit.

So it's possible that that was that aided in their decision making. But again, okay, so then let's say that they're like, okay, the snow cat track is gonna lead us to safety or something. When they get to the trailer, like why not eat the food? Why not make a fire? I can I can even see missing the propane tank, just not being you know, um, just with it enough from the harrowing experience that you could just totally miss the propane tank. And I even think that your trailer

is going to have that kind of thing. But the food that you've already started to eat, that you already show you have a can opener and know how to use it. Like, how do you just starve to death after that? Well, I mean the food. The other food was in a locker they never opened apparently. But like, if you're there, especially for two to three months, like you're turning over everything, You're lighting a fire with whatever you can get your hands on. Those plenty of stuff

to make a fire. Uh. What's up with the supposed woman and the baby? That could be chalked up maybe pretty easily to uh what was his name? Snopes, shoots shows, Shans Snopes snoop talk that could be chalked up to him in the state of a heart attack in the middle of the night, just sort of seeing things could have been or could have just been an entirely different party of people who had nothing to do with it or everything to do with it, But it could have

They could have been there too. I mean it was you know, it was a mountain. Some people lived on it. Some people apparently like camp there, which is what Shones was scouting for. You know, how did Matthias never get found at all? I don't know I saw him. I think, Uh,

I think. At the end of the WAPO article, um Cynthia Gorney, the journalist, says that, um, probably, you know, he laid there on the snow somewhere that they just didn't find or overlooked, or he got buried in the snow, and then when the thaw came, he sunk down to the ground and was covered over by some some mountain vines. I guess so. But it seems like after all these years a bone or one of those leather shoes or something would have been found. Yeah, you'd think both of

those would still be intact. Yeah, I mean, what I did not see was any sort of speculation that he had had any nefarious like actions. Um, but we did put a pin in something. I don't remember what it was. I saw a couple of theories that they they speculate that all of these guys went to the cabin at one point and maybe, uh, we are wasn't doing so well, so they all set out independently to go look for help and each died or maybe in pairs, maybe since the two guys were kind of found together. But I

don't know. I mean, it's all just speculation. You saw that they don't think they were all there? Yeah, what I saw was that um Jackie Hewitt and um Bill Sterling and um Jack Madruga hadn't had never made it to the to the trailer, that they would have split up on the way up. No, No, that they were, That they had um or died during that twenty mile hike. Yes, interesting. And then Ted and Gary had continued on upped and made it, made it to the trailer, and then what

I think happened after that was Gary nurse Ted. Gary had been in the army and the can opener that was there was actually a very simple thing called the P thirty eight, but you kind of had to have been in the army to to know how to use it, and Ted wouldn't have been and Gary would have been, So I think Gary may have stayed, probably fed both of them, and then like you said, seeing Ted was not doing so well, set out again with Ted shoes and died um going off to get helps somehow, That's

what I think happened. Yeah, I would have think they get split up on the way up though, Like I just don't even know, like these guys would have died that quickly on on the way on this twenty mile hike, I mean six to eight foot snow drifts. That's cold. Yeah,

but they're also on this snow packed trail supposedly. Sure, but they also have like they're dressed for mild weather, Like they didn't have jackets, sweaters, their shoes were like like like converse kind of things, aside from the the platform shoes that, like I did, it's entirely possible that

twenty mile hike up a mountain they succumbed to the weather. Yeah, And you also, like it was hard to determine what level of intellectual impairment these boys had, so I don't know how much that plays into it, if at all. Like when they get to this cabin, like did um Matthias is because you know he didn't have his meds after that, did he start kind of breaking down with with some episodes of schizophrenia and leave? Did the other guy not fully understand? I mean at that point, he's

exhausted and maybe hurt and scared. Was he not even able to figure out maybe to light a fire light of fire or how to use that can opener or maybe he felt he couldn't get out of bed because of his feet. Yeah, and he he was just stuck there after Gary struck out to go get help that there was nothing he could do, and the poor guy starved to death. But what were they doing up there

to begin with? That's the basic root of this whole thing. Yeah, but that's that's why they call this the American diet law pass Right, we gotta do an episode on that one too. But because there's some there's like a mystery within a mystery within a mystery, there's so many many like other mysteries. Yeah, that that just kind of um crescendo from the first mystery, which is what were they

doing there? Yeah? Well, like and like you said, some of the parents firmly believe like they witnessed something at this basketball game and we're then chased up this mountain. Yeah, Like I don't even know what that means, like like they witnessed a crime, I came after him or something.

That's what Ted Weird sister in law always believed. And speaking of Ted Weir, you got anything else on this, no, except to only say if that was the case, then why was the car seemingly driven very slowly and carefully up this road? If they were being chased. Oh okay, So you make a good point. And I think I saw that elsewhere too, that that like that virtually proves that they weren't chased. If anything, it shows that they that that says something happened to them and somebody ditched

their car. Who who knew the area? I think more likely um Jack Madrugo. It just would have driven extraordinarily slowly because this is his, his baby car. Yeah, it's all just very sad. I think it's just one of those. It's probably like Okam's razor. It's probably the most simple explanation is you know, maybe they just went on a little joy ride, got a little lost, got turned around in the woods, and succumbed to nature. Yeah, so I find this. I said at the beginning that this is

just a very sad story to me. And one of the things that got me was in that Washington Post articles called five Boys Who Never Come Back by Cynthia Gorney. You can find it online. But um they she describes Ted Weir as you're ready for this that Ted got a good chuckle out of phoning Bill Sterling and reading from newspaper items or a ball names from the telephone book like that's what he was into, that's what made

him happy. And I'm sure Bill Sterling thought it was hilarious too, But like they were just this group of friends and can't you just imagine my kid, we're like going through the phone book looking for silly names and going and picking up the phone and calling his friend Bill Sterling and saying, Bill, get a load of this one, and Bills just laughing on the other end of the line, and like that they just had like this such a pure life, like almost like an enviable life in a

lot of ways, and that they died so horribly is just just bitterly sad to me. Yeah, I mean, they weren't troublemakers and even um, even the one who had had gotten convicted of assault a couple of times. Gary, Yeah, Gary, it seems like all signs point to the his mental illness is playing a big factor in that which he had gotten in check, right, exactly. All very sad. It

is very sad. Well, if you have any theories on the what you call him the Ubi City six five, Uba County or Uba City five, Ubis City five, um, we want to hear him. You can find all of our social media connections on our website Stuff you Should Know dot com and if you like, you can also send us an email to shoot it off to Stuff Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. Wait, we haven't done listener mail, have we know? You're just gonna let

me keep going, weren't you? You know? All right? Well, hold on, everybody, hold on, don't stop yet, don't stop yet. Since I said some stuff I'm not supposed to say, it's time for listener mail. Yes. And speaking of which, this listener mail is rated rated R. Okay, that's all I'll say. Use the S word no, but it doesn't use curse words. It's just um talks very frankly about sex and it's good. P s A though, so we know the stuff. Uh. And this is from Emily, not

my wife. Hey, guys, listen to the Select episode on condoms the other day. Thanks for all the great info. Appreciate you covering topics maybe slightly controversial or divisive and do so with such grace. I wanted to throw a little extra P. S A in there though, for your listeners. Most people are aware that you can and should use condoms to prevent pregnancy and or s t I S when a penis is involved, but there's far less awareness about protection when you've only got vaginas in the mix.

Although you certainly can't get pregnant, it is possible to spread or contract an s t I from sex between two women or other vagina having people. But you can greatly reduce your risk of this by using a dental dam. It's a sheet of latex placed over the bulba or anus for oral sex. That's all, uh, And that's all there really is to it. If you don't have one on hand, you can safely d I Y one by unrolling a regular condom, cutting off the clothes end and bam,

it's a dental dam. In the case of digital sex, not as in computers, as in fingers, latex gloves are perfect or perfect for the job. Of course, these can also be used by absolutely anyone. There's a lot more awareness of protection for heterosexual and male homosexual couples, and not a lot for queer women. Well that's my stuff you should know, and now you know it. Thanks for consistently great work and outstanding effort and educating and entertaining

us every week and Happy Pride month. Uh And she wrote back, I just realized I gave an incomplete d I Y instruction. You would cut off the close end of the condom uh, and the ring on the open end, then cut down the middle and now it's a flat sheet. Bam. So that is from Emily. Thanks a lot, Emily, Happy Pride Month. Indeed good info. Uh yeah, it was good info. And if you out there want to send us good info, I already said it. I said it once and I'll

say it again. You can find all our social stuff on stuff you should Know dot com, and you can send us an email to stuff podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.