Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and it's just us and that's okay because we can support one another and ourselves. We're grown men and we feel good about things, especially us, well not especially, but equally with us. And this is TI.
I mean, you told me, you sent me a text very early that said put on your big boy pants today.
Yeah, because Jerry's not showing up.
Yeah, So I got them out my breeches.
Yeah. Are they green jeans?
Oh? I've got on green cords?
No, I do?
We do?
These are kind of my favorites. Actually, these forest green chords great for this time of year.
I don't remember those. I remember some like brownish topey, kind of shiny tope ones. Am I making up?
No? I have chords of many colors, much like Joseph.
Are they the thick whales or the thin whales?
The thins?
I don't get into the thick stuff anymore. That was nineties, Chuck.
Probably, Yeah, but I'll bet they're going to make a comeback.
I bet you.
Okay, I think we should start talking about this because we probably have some non regular listeners who have military backgrounds, who are like, what the hell is this? Who want to hear about Operation Paul Bunyan, which is the point of all this. And I'm guessing just from the title, there's probably a lot of people in the military who know what we're talking about. Already. It seems to be a fairly widespread, widely known incident that took place in
nineteen seventy six. We're just going to call it an incident at the DMV DMZ that was totally unintentional, an incident at the DMZ. That's where we're going to start out calling it. Well, eventually, maybe refine that over time, but we should probably talk about what the DMZ is in the first place. Right.
Yeah, And by the way, I'm looking real quick, because I could have sworn this probably came from someone, but I usually make a note and I'm not seeing that. But I am seeing that pop Tarts came from Nelson Reynolds. So sorry for that, Nelson.
Sorry Nelson, ah ha.
But yeah, the DMZ, I guess we should set up just sort of the deal between North Korea and South Korea and the United States post World War Two was the Soviets and the Americans got together and said, all right, Korea and Korea obviously got involved and said, we're going to be two nations. Let's confuse everybody and call the communists North Korea inside the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and called the democratic South Korean side just the Republic
of Korea. And if you've ever heard of the thirty eighth parallel, that's the famous dividing line between these two.
Yeah. And North Korea and South Korea got divided after World War Two because there was a power vacuum and the Communists were fighting in the North and they were fighting that US friendly South Koreans, and the North Koreans were like, this can't sting it. We want the whole peninsula, and they invaded and the Korean War broke out, like
you said, and it lasted for three years. I always thought it was Americans who were fighting in Korea, but it turns out there were plenty of American troops, mostly American troops, but they were part of a UN command that was actually fighting the North along with the South Koreans. Yeah.
I think it's like ninety percent American forces. And you said it lasted three years. I think the Korean War is one of those that technically never ended true officially, because I mean that's kind of one of those nitpicky trivia questions. That's a good one that you know, there was never an official treaty ending the war. They came to a truce or an armistice because of a stalemate basically after three years. But I think you know on the books, the Korean War never technically ended.
Yeah, that's that's my understanding too. Well. Good point. So one of the big things about this armistice agreement was that it was like, okay, you guys, we need some separation here, and they literally separated North Korea from South Korea. Like you said, the dividing line runs roughly along the thirty eighth parallel, But on either side of that border of North and South Korea there's a buffer zone, the
demilitarized Zone the DMZ I was referring to before. I think it's two point four miles wide total one point two miles on either side, and that is like effectively the de facto border between North and South. No one's supposed to come into that no man's zone, no man's land, the DMZ. But inside the DMZ. There's a little tiny village called the panmu JOm and I know of that from Billy Joel.
Yeah, I knew he was going to come up.
That was it. And then some of the other Korean town names that came up, like Kaesong and all this. I'm like, how do I know these? How are they so unfamiliar? And then I realized watching mash with my dad, Oh yeah, And it's this little tiny militarized spot inside the demilitarized zone, and it's it's where North Korea and South Korea actually come together physically, can come together in this what's called the JSA, the Joint Security Area.
Yeah, so if they over the years have to meet to negotiate anything, that's where they meet. That's where the governments go. There's a very famous bridge there separating the two, the Bridge of No Return. It's very dramatic if you look at pictures of it. Yeah, it's literally like, you know, on one side is one thing, on the other side as the other. And that's where they do prisoner exchanges
and stuff like that. And these days, you know, it's well, largely because of this incident, I think it's not the same as it was back then.
No, it's very separate.
Back then, the Joint Security Area was you know, there were it was jointly patrolled, like you know, North Koreans and South Korean soldiers and American soldiers were patrolling the area at the same time that face to face contact. They would try to intimidate one another. They would you know, curse at one another, maybe spit at one another. The Americans would play hopscotch on the bridge. The North Koreans would you know, drive a truck really fast toward them
and slam on the brakes. They would sneak up and bang on their checkpoint barracks at night and stuff like that. It was crazy to think that these kind of shenanigans were going on without any further you know, sort of war breaking out. They all kind of seemingly took it in stride.
Well that's what their orders were. The UN Command troops and the Americans in particular, had specific orders to like, if you had to defend yourself physically because you were getting beat up, okay, but you did not shoot. You had to be shot at to draw your side arm, and that was the most powerful weapon that anyone patrolling the Joint security area had They were often outfitted with
axe handles, maybe baton's, and that was about it. So the Americans had strict orders not to take the bait, and North Korean troops had essentially strict orders to provoke the Americans into attacking so that they could start a war again and it would be the American's fault exactly.
And this came largely from the guy in charge. I mean, you know, it came from on high, I'm sure, but it was filtered down through Captain Arthur Bonifas. He was a Vietnam vet. He was the JSA company commander. He was thirty three years old. He was a big dude. He was six' three, apparently super, popular like a father figure as far as his command. Went and the camp there at JSA's Name Camp boniface after, him so you
may see where this is. Headed but, he you, know he believed in standing your ground but not taking the. Bait like you, said like he wanted big guys down. There he wanted to kind of, intimidate but the orders were always to back off if it came to. Blows and sometimes it would like you, know you could get beat up or something and it would not escalate, further which is just crazy to think.
About it is it's hard to. Imagine you said that bonifass was into intimidating without you, know doing, it like just being physically. Intimidating, yeah if you were assigned to PATROL. Jsa this is a really really high stakes area still is. Today Bill clinton toured it in the nineties and went as far as out under The bridge Of No, return and he said later that That Pamu jam is the
scariest place on. Earth that's a president saying that he's probably been to some scary places and at least knows about. Them so that really says quite a. Bit so if you're assigned to this, area it's a big. Deal and so you had to be over six feet, tall but you also had to be laid back by nature and rather cool, headed like even when, provoked like they really tested the people who were a signed.
There, yeah they'd walk up and they'd slap you and see what you.
Did they would apparently while they were interviewing you that you'd have no. Idea they'd just start shouting at you out of the out of nowhere to see how you. Responded were they Really, Yeah, Oh. Wow, yeah there's a really that's a great chance to shout. Out there's an atavist article Called axes Of evil written By Josh dean and it's it's a really great detailed look at this whole thing that we're talking about. Today that would be.
Axe yes in this, case right, yep very clever, hmm a.
Bit of a uh what do you call?
It it's we're recording, early SO i can't think of the word the. Foreshadowing, yeah maybe that's a play on words a. Pun foreshadowing is probably Yet. OKAY i think people are probably concerned BECAUSE i couldn't think of.
FORESHADOWING i couldn't think of chemistry the other day and intro of me crazy.
Oh, Man, yeah aging is real, yeah and a, privilege as they, Say uh so before this incident they were about to talk about, there there was one example we should mention When North korean troops were kind of must in the hair of a soldier Named William henderson and he.
Did not take it.
WELL i guess he was into his hair or. Something he got, mad took a swing and got A i guess a throat chop or, something and got a busted. Larynx and such That boniface wrote his wife and, said our mission here is to take the verbal abuse to kicking the, shoving but to not let it go any. Further Major henderson lost his cool and blew. It it's a natural, reaction but he should have known.
Better, yeah and it was a big. Deal SO i also saw That henderson was provoked by a journalist who spat at. Him When henderson stood, up the journalists hit, him and then Finally henderson hit him, back and all of a sudden a bunch Of North korean troops jumped on. Him but the fact that he took the bait was a big deal because he was a. Major that means you're a big deal at a camp, already like you're fairly high. Up so him fighting back Was, yeah that was a big. Deal.
Uh maybe an early early ish break here seems like a good dividing.
LINE i think we.
Should, well we'll take a break and we'll come back and talk about the tree that started the whole, thing all, Right.
All, Right josh didn't pick up on my bad pun of the dividing. Line oh what was? It AND i, said it's a dividing, line like you, know the thirty eighth.
Parallel it just is so natural that it's. BAD i totally missed. It it's also early for me.
TOO i couldn't tell by the.
Way that short stuff that you sent that we're going to record later had a bunch of puns in, it AND i didn't know if that was intentional or.
NOT i can think of, one and it was. Intentional there were a. Couple, okay you got to point them.
Out, yeah, boy what a little tease of a whole different. Episode you're such a. Tease so all, right now we get to The Paul. Bunyan what instigated The Paul bunyan incident or? Operation which was this tree that you Mentioned that was a. Tree it was a poplar tree near The bridge Of No. Return and the thing you need to know about this, tree, well there's a few, things but one is that it blocked the view of the
line of sight between these two un command. Checkpoints and that was a big deal because you needed an open line of site between these checkpoints because you, know there were incidents of like kidnapping and stuff like that and other, shenanigans and you just you had to have that line of sight.
OPEN. Yep so they said the unc was, like we got to get rid of this.
Tree so they sent a couple of Unarmed South korean workers down there to just sort of figure out the best way to remove. It and the first sort of reaction was The North korean guards chased them. Away so that was sort of the line in the sand was get out of, here get away from that.
Tree.
Yeah apparently they tried again a couple days later and got rained, out and then finally On august, eighteenth they were, like, okay we're just gonna go ahead and do. This those first guys got chased, off so we're gonna essentially assign a few men to escort. THEM i think a fifteen man team went over On august, eighteenth led By Captain, bonifas and they started pruning the, tree just to. Prune
at this, point, yeah they're just pruning it. Back they just want to make sure that even during summer they can See checkpoint, three the loneliest outpost in the, world,
because like you, said it's very dangerous to man. That so they're just pruning it, right and very, quickly The North koreans came over The bridge Of No return because, remember mind bogglingly The Joint Security area was, open like the border didn't exist in The Joint security, area So North koreans AND Un command could just go wherever they. Want so The North koreans show up at this, site at the poplar tree while it's being, pruned and they're
led By Lieutenant. Pacchoule he was known As Lieutenant bulldog by THE Un command troops because he was very, confrontational had provoked confrontation in the past plenty of, times and so he showed. Up so you just immediately knew that this could go south pretty. Quickly.
Yeah and apparently he, said you, know they wanted to keep that tree pristine Because Kim il sung personally planted it and nourished it and it's growing under his. Supervision so, apparently or at least they said it was a special tree and to stand.
Down, yes Because Kim il sung was the he was the first deer. Leader Kim jong un is his. Grandson. Yeah, yeah and so the idea that deer leader planted that. TREE i don't know if that's. TRUE i never saw. THAT i just saw it like stated here or. There but at the very Least pacchool said, that, Right, Yeah.
I'm not sure IF i buy, that given what we now have sort of suspected about this being a, provocation which we'll get, to but that sounds to me, like, hey let's tell him, that you know it's a special.
Tree, Yeah like he's like puck chool seemed like the kind who would just load you up on bs just to mess with.
You.
Yeah, Yeah so he called for even more. REINFORCEMENTS i think about thirty More North korean guards showed. Up he Ordered Captain boniface to, stop but he turned his back on, him WHICH i think, was you, know a pretty big
insult on top of everything. Else and as the story, goes one of The american soldiers Saw poc take off his wristwatch and put it in his, pocket which IS i guess a cain to Like pansie taking off his leather jacket like it's about to, happen and tried to Warn, boniface but it was too late by that, point And pack ordered the attack basically by, saying LIKE i think he, said kill the, bastards.
Right. YEAH i saw in nineteen seven twenty Seven Army War college report on the, incident and that's what they, said So i'm prone to believe them, yeah but he said In korean, obviously. Right but right after that they the men attacked and ACTUALLY i Saw Lieutenant pocchoul Assaulted Captain, bonifas who had again his back To. Pocchool, yeah he hit him with the karate chop in the back of his neck and Dropped Captain boniface and very very, Sadly
Captain boniface never got to his feet. Again, Yeah, like immediately he was set upon BY i saw five to Six North korean troops just started being beaten by. Them AND i guess the people who were cutting the tree had a couple of, axes these, civilians and they dropped their axes and, ran and The North korean troops picked up the. Axes and here is where the reason that this is called THE dmz ax incident. Begins that's.
Right So boniface was bludgeoned to death by these guys attacking. Him and you can watch this like it was on. Film it's very. Chaotic you can't really GET i, mean it's kind of from far, away so you can't get a lot of, detail, right but you, know there are still shots in film of this stuff going. On so he was bludgeoned First Lieutenant Mark barrett was also beaten to.
Death he was chased.
Down over a retaining wall and you know sort of THE i, mean it's sad enough as it, is But bonifas was due to go home to his wife and three kids in three, days so it was made, it you, know sort of especially.
Brutal, yeah and not like for a, visit like this was his last three days In. Korea, yeah where he was murdered by an axe By North korean. Troops it's almost like a, Parody like it's almost too crazy to believe that that's how close he was to leave In. Korea he was also going to be promoted to major, too like he was his life was like looking up when he was.
Murdered, yeah really.
Sad so this was a really really big. Deal as you can, imagine this is the first time that any un command true hoops and Any americans had been killed In korea since the end of The Korean. War it was a huge provocation and there was a big question now on the, table what is The United states military going to? Do, yeah that two of its officers were murdered by acts By North korean troops totally. Unprovoked this
was one hundred. Percent The North korean's doing this so much their fault, that like you, said it almost seems like it was possibly set. Up we'll talk about that a little bit. Later and so there was a, big a big question that needed to be answered and answered really, fast and that was how are we going to respond to?
This, Yeah so on THE us side at the, time we Had Henry kissinger as The secretary Of state Under President Gerald. Ford like we, mentioned it was seventy, six so it was the election year Between ford And Jimmy, carter And ford learned about the incident when and he was at The Republican National, convention and obviously As secretary Of, State kissinger was kind of in charge of figuring out
what to. Do calls together The Washington Special Action, group which was a task force that was formed in sixty nine out Of vietnam to deal with like sort of any emergencies like this that came. Up and It's Henry. Kissinger so he's, like would we should bomb the, Barracks like he wants to flatten the barracks of the guards that attack them and react really strongly and sinto you, know a big message that this will not stand, YEAH.
I, MEAN i can kind of understand that. Impulse he was apparently the only one in The Special Action group that wanted to respond with a violent, action and the reason why was because this is such a flashpoint still, today but at this, TIME i, mean it was like we were still in the middle of The Cold. War so to, us not only was This North, korea this
is Also china and THE ussr right behind. Them. Right oh, Yeah so if you sent a missile into THE jsa against The North, koreans there was a better than even chance probably that you might spark a Nuclear World war. Three, unluckily cooler heads. Prevailed But kissinger he was probably a little. PARANOID i would. Guess he's very widely, reviled including by, me So i'm pretty sure he was at least a little.
PARANOID i, mean he started out in The nixon, administration for goodness, sake but he was Also his position was also that this was a provocation by The north to Test america's resolve because it was an election, year they were trying to interfere with the. Election to make the point Of Gerald ford's, Opponent Jimmy, carter who was, saying we need to get troops out Of. Korea we don't
have any business being there. Anymore So kissinger thought this Was North korea doing this to basically show that The americans didn't belong here, anymore just to get out wasn't worth, it. Basically, Yeah AND i get the.
IDEA i, MEAN i was but five at the, time not super into politics, yet BUT i get the idea that Getting american troops out Of korea was probably a pretty popular idea That carter was laying.
Out, yeah and you Know.
Vietnam, yeah, well And kissinger was still ticked off About.
Vietnam so he was, like if we don't do, this it's going to send a message that to Other asian countries and THE ussr In china that we have no resolve and that we're going to stand. Down and you, know he wanted his Guy forward back in there, Obviously so he was out, voted like you, said, thankfully but he was, like all, right we still need to show a,
force like we need to do. Something and the one thing that everybody in the room agreed, on even if it WAS i, MEAN i know it was somewhat, strategical but it was also. Symbolic they were like we're cutting that gd tree. Down no matter what anyone else, Says we're going to cut that thing. Down and they were all like haharump for.
Umph so, yeah they, Decided, okay we're not going to actually destroy, anything we're not going to fire any, missiles we're not going to kill, anybody but that doesn't mean we're not going to show them that we could do that if we wanted, to, Right and what they came up with was known As Operation Paul, bunyan which is one of the better names of any Operation i've ever. Heard, yeah.
Totally it was under command Of General Richard. Stillwell he was the commander in chief of THE un command, there and the, message like you, said was to sort of, intimidate show that we could do something if we wanted. To they had forty thousand troops over there that WERE i, Mean dave says here it was raised To defcon, three which is somewhat counterintuitive because it's raising a number even though it's being, lowered, right.
Yeah, yeah right in the middle between one and, five and one's the. Highest it is very.
Confusing, yeah so you're raising deaf, coon but the number goes. Lower it took me a second to figure that. Out BUT i have seen, wargame SO i know how it. Works and a digit see The house Of. Dynamite have you seen that, yet the New Catherine bigelow. Movie, no IT'S i think it's. ON i think it's A netflix movie about sort of a modern you, know what would happen if nuclear arms were, Launched like what would we? Do so it's a very tense thing and there's lots of deaf con talk.
AND i liked a lot of. It, YEAH i might say THAT.
I can get. THAT i think she's directly funded by THE. Cia On Catherine, Bigelow, yeah.
She definitely has her, niche you. Know, yeah for, SURE i would recommend. IT i didn't care for the third.
Act that, much But house Of. DYNAMITE i think that's what it's. Called.
Great, Nay, YEAH i mean you Get Idris elba as the, president so that's always a good.
Move, Oh i'll say.
That, wait you're talking about. That he's in it With John. Cena John cena is The American president And Idris elba's The Prime minister and they actually end up being like action.
Heroes, No Idris elba is The American, President John cena is he's nowhere to be.
Found i'm thinking of something you think it's.
About, Anyway Operation Paul bunyan is set up. FOR i, MEAN i Know i'm Saying, bungyan but that's just because my weird. Accent It's. Bunyan august twenty, first this is three days after The axe. Attack and what they were going to do was mobilize sort of the largest mobilization of our forces and defenses on The korean peninsula since that fifty Three armistice with some pretty heavy artillery and airships and sea.
Ships.
YEAH i, mean remember When Captain boniface went to escort the tree trimmers there were fifteen. People now there's eight hundred men involved in this tree trimming and it's not even a tree trimming at this. Point right, now they're aiming to cut the tree.
Down, yeah they hate this tree at this. Point they want that tree.
Dead especially if they think that dear leader planted. It, right this tree has now become super. Symbolic blood has been shed to prune this. Tree and you said that there was a ton of artillery armaments as part of the show of, force and, boy you got it.
Right, YEAH i, mean they had flying overhead and clear view so everyone could, see you, know what was going. On they had Twenty huey. Helicopters they had Twelve cobra, GUNSHIPS b fifty two, bombers tank, BUSTER f Four phantom fighter JETS f one to eleven strategic. BOMBS i mean they're pulling out all the stops and off the. Coast they had THE USSS uss DID I sa three s's or TWO uss, midway four frigates and a cruiser and aircraft taking off flying. OVERHEAD i mean it was a real show of.
Intimidation.
Yeah THOSE b fifty twos that take the intimidation even further were flying Inside North korean airspace not too far From. Peonyang they were also strapped with. Nukes there were nuclear missiles in this theater, now not just THE b fifty twos carrying, them but THOSE f one to elevens were also carrying nuclear warheads as. Missiles so the idea is, here as part Of Operation Paul bunyan is to trim the tree or cut the tree down now and also Show North korea, like do you do not want to
mess with? Us DO i ever do anything like that? Again and to be prepared that If North korea did do, something if they were provoked by this tree cutting, down that they would just be essentially wiped off the map as a as a. Nation, yeah for.
Sure and you know the whole AFTER i was studying all, this right in the middle of, IT i got weirdly very sad for this.
Tree.
YEAH i saw that tree in all of. It i've seen other people refer to as the poor.
TREE i, know because in the middle of all this, STUFF i, mean these you, know bombers are flying, overhead and these troops are massing these heavy artillery on each side of the, bridge AND i just picture, that you.
KNOW i Know i'm.
ANTHROPOMORPHISING i always say that. Wrong say it for me.
Anthropomorphizing you, said you just said so, lowly.
That's, right this.
Tree BUT i just pictured this poor tree sitting, there like, MAN i JUST i just want to be a.
TREE i WISH i were a.
SHRUB i want to Start World war three or be cut.
DOWN i know that tree did not get their.
Wish oh grow, SLOWER i promise.
Right, HERE i can just shed a few.
Limbs So Major General john Singlab dave helped us with. This found a quote that just showed how serious this, was and he said it was my estimate shared by many of the, staff that the operation stood a fifty to fifty chance of starting a, war and that would have Been World war, three.
Absolutely a nuclear. War this tree cutting operation could have Sparked World war, three no. Joke, again that is how tense things are at THE dmz even still to this.
Day all, right should we take a.
Break, yeah let's take a, break and then we're going to talk About Operation Paul bunyan. Commencing, So, chuck this is not a reckless. Thing as a matter of, fact this was really. Calculated you Mentioned General, stilwell who was in charge of Every american troop In. Korea he personally came up with this plan and he was not a, warhawk but he also it was a really good, plan especially if all of the troops like followed orders and nobody tried anything provocative and nobody took any bait from
The North. Koreans it was a very good. Plan but The United states was not reckless in. This in carrying out this, plan they actually got in touch With china and THE ussr and basically basically, said, hey you, know we're thinking about doing something like, this And china and the USS a both signaled that they were not going to do anything If North korea started, fighting That North
korea was on their. OWN i think they've blinked twice and pulled their left ear lobe and then touched the bill of their, cap and The United states is, like, oh we. Gotcha so now it was a little less, tense even though it could still start a war With North. Korea at least we had this idea That china and THE ussr wouldn't immediately. Intervene.
YEAH i immediately thought Of Doctor, strangelove AND i could.
Just Hear Peter sellers on the phone, going.
Well, dmitri you see there's this tree that's, Perfect it's so. GREAT i think we didn't mention too that the actual tree cutting was going to be done by unarmed military.
Engineers that they sent.
Forward.
YEAH i, mean the fact that they weren't armed is kind of neither here nor, there because there were so many. ARMS i think the people actually on the bridge supposedly just had like, these you, know clubs and axe handles and side, arms but both sides of the bridge were
stocked with heavy artillery from both. Sides AND i also saw that The Korean South korean faction that was assisting, us they rolled in and blocked the, bridge AND i don't think they were supposed to have anything more than just, pistols but they unloaded a bunch of sand bags and had a bunch OF m sixteens hidden that they took.
Out, yeah they also showed that they had claymore mines land mines strapped to their chests and they had the detonators in their other hand and were daring The North koreans to come get them because they would blow themselves up in The North. Koreans and this had not been passed by THE Un Command force or anything like. That no one had any idea that The South korean commandos were going to do something like, that because, again we're trying to not let this, be you, know any more
tense than it already. Is and all of a sudden there's essentially suicide bombers on the, scenes like mocking The North. Koreans so that definitely altered things a little. Bit playmore With. Claymore oh, YEAH i forgot. THAT i knew that from being a. Kid where where'd you hear? That is that just from the military and it trickled.
Out, NO i thought it Was The, simpsons wasn't.
It. NO i think it was like a maybe in a rambow or something. Like there's no WAY i would have known that as a.
Kid, Otherwise, OKAY i can't remember WHERE i heard it, first but at any, rate it's a very tense.
SCENE i think we've setting that.
Up and, again you, know we had orders not to, provoke like our mission is to cut that tree, down but all hell's going to break loose if anything. Happens and like you, Mentioned North korea had some pretty decent incentive to kind of start some. Fighting they didn't Want World war, three but they wanted, to you, know they Wanted South korea still at this.
Point.
Yeah plus Also Kim il, sung The Dear, leader the First Dear, leader he was A communist guerrilla fighting The japanese In World War. Two he was battle hardened and. Tested, yeah so he was totally into. Fighting he wasn't like a dove or a diplomat at. All.
Yeah AND i think we didn't mention too that the previous tree, trimming supposedly we had told them that this was going to, happen and so the whole provocation to begin, with if they knew about it ahead of, time then they came down there with that, knowledge because they didn't raise any. Objections apparently that we were, like, hey were going to trim this tree so we can have a better line of sight and you'll have a better line of, sight and no one said, anything you, know to the.
Contrary so the whole thing was really provocation by The North.
Koreans.
Yeah, absolutely that was the first time When Captain bonifass And Lieutenant barrett got, murdered.
Right, yeah, exactly which again made it sort of seem like it was planned to begin.
With, yeah for. Sure so at oh seven hundred, hours that's seven am On august twenty, first nineteen seventy, Six Operation Paul bunyan, commences and like you, SAID i mean basically what we described there was there was an order not to. ENGAGE i mean, essentially if The North koreans started unloading with sniper fire or machine, guns then, yes we're going to. Engage and it was a very tense, operation but they got in. There the military engineers cut
the tree essentially down to a ten foot. Stump they were USING i Read vietnam era issue chainsaws that weren't in very good, shape so it took him a little. While but it took him about forty five minutes to complete the whole. Thing and they should have sent out Leather. Face he should.
Have he could have gotten that done in ten.
Minutes, Yeah but they left this big stump with a two like it was branching at the, top and one of the soldiers who was at the scene said that it had looked like somebody raising their arms in, surrender like The North koreans were. Surrendering, YEAH i saw.
That kissinger tried to get a carving artist in there to shape it in the form of the middle.
Finger.
Right those guys are, great the chainsaw. Artists, Man, yeah it's pretty. AMAZING i don't know if the intent was ever to cut down the entire. TREE i don't think that that was the, plan even in the second, time even In Operation Paul. Bunyan but they left this. Stump everybody on THE us side just went back. Out they just. Withdrew the operation was, successful but things were still quite.
Tense it's not it wasn't clear Whether North korea was going to respond, still just because the operation was done and now there weren't a bunch of Troops america or THE Un. Command they just kept patrolling The Joint Security area like it was any other day because that's what it was supposed to. Be even though this operation had, commenced it was now, over so things were supposed to go back to, normal but we still had no idea What North korea was going to.
Do, so you, know pretext to this was they were very unapologetic about the whole incident leading up to, that like After Captain boniface And Lieutenant barrett were, killed but After Paul bunyan they thankfully backed off that there wasn't like an expressed, apology But President Kim il sung did express regret for those, deaths so they clearly were sort of backing down at this, point you, know much to everyone's.
Relief and it was this incident that basically everyone was, like, hey you know, what.
Maybe this maybe we didn't think this through.
How this thing operates with these guys all being here in the same place at all, times and so it's set up much differently. Now so the actual line that runs the link of THE dmc is the actual dividing line even through THE gs THE.
Jsa, yeah that dividing, line the military demarcation, line that is the actual border as far AS i, understand Between North korea And South korea with THE dmz buffers on either side of, It and they just ignored it in THE, jsa but then they started enforcing. It so now The North korean troops and THE u And command troops do not, intermingle even though their posts are feet away from one. Another, yeah it would be a really big deal for one to attack the other because you would be crossing the.
Border now there's no free fight. Invasion it would be an enormous. Deal it'd be an international. Incident and in,
fact there was something like that in nineteen eighty. Four there was A soviet exchange student who was on a tour with The North koreans who ran across the border to defect into The west and a firefight started that resulted in the deaths of Three North koreans and ONE u In Command South korean, Soldier and it was a, huge, again an international incident because some of The North korean troops had run across the demarcation line to chase after the. Defector, yeah for.
Sure so everyone is like pretty happy and considered it a success except For. Kissinger of, course The North koreans back down really, quickly so it really didn't give him any chance during this election year to kind of tout some big victory Of. AMERICA i, mean it was a, victory BUT i don't think it was like some huge international news thing he. Wanted he still wanted them to have blown up the barracks or to taken out like a warship or two as like a big show of.
Force so everyone was pretty stoked except For Old.
Henry so they left that poplar tree there as a,
reminder a monument of. Sorts, actually until the tenth anniversary of the axe murder incident On august, eighteenth nineteen eighty, six they pulled the tree, out stump and, all roots and, all and replaced it with a Memorial and there's a plaque on it that reads on this spot was located the yellow poplar tree which was the focal point of the axe murders of Two United nations command, officers Kept Arthur bonifas And First Lieutenant Mark, barrett who were attacked
and killed By North korean guards while supervising a work party trimming the tree on Eighteen august nineteen seventy, six and it's just so plainly put without any flowery language that it also just kind of gets across the horrible absurdity of the whole. Thing, yeah for.
Sure and just a few years, ago in twenty twenty, two that was a sort of a.
Joint show of.
Not, friendship but like maybe we should kind of literally put this to rest by planting a. TREE i think the presidents of the two countries got together in THE jsa to plant a pine tree of, peace and they took, turned shoveling soil from each, side watered it with rivers from each, side and the pine tree Of peace became you, know and right now is sort of a big symbol of kind of what happened there and maybe let's try and just chill things out a little.
Bit. Yeah what made it even more significant was that The South korean president Moonjay in was actually one of The South korean commandos who took part in. Operation, yeah it's. Crazy and then there's one other little note THAT i found pretty. Interesting there's a one whole par three well.
GOLF i don't think you could call it a, course but it's it's like an astro turf part, well a par three that's surrounded by land mines now where the poplar tree used to, be and it's called the most dangerous hole in golf From Sports.
Illustrated, yeah and we never really, said you, know we kind of hinted around that this might have been all planned to begin.
With and there is circumstantial evidence.
That suggests that that whole attack was pre planned to begin, with, right you, know BECAUSE i mentioned that we had gotten in touch with him and, said, hey we're going to prune this, tree and no one really said, like, no don't do, that and so that attack seemingly came out of. Nowhere but one big clue, WAS i think three minutes after this incident, Occurred Radio, pyonyang which is The North korean state, radio they broadcast a very biased report on,
this like right after it. Happened so it seems pretty clear that it was pre, planned but analysis later on seems to indicate that The soviets did not know about it and they were kind of acting on their. Own.
NO i saw one other piece of circumstantial evidence too that kind of is pretty, definitive is that within five hours there was a non aligned, nation which where the
nations during The Cold war who didn't choose. Sides all of them were meeting In, korea and within five, Hours korean delegates were at that meeting handing out memos describing this the axe murders and totally blaming it on The, americans like had completely flipped it around in an effort to kind of drum up support to get The americans. Out so that's it does seem pretty likely that The North koreans planned the axe. Murders, YEAH i, agreed you got anything?
Else got nothing?
Else this is a good, one. Man hats off to the the person or people who suggested, it and maybe listen out for a future random episode where we thank you for.
IT i couldn't find. IT i might have found this on my.
Own i'll help. You, look you know.
WHAT i. THINK i was looking for live show topics and came across.
This oh, Cool, yeah this would have been a good. One but there's there's a lot of downers. Too, yeah not a lot of, jokey ridiculous. Stuff, yeah do you have anything? ELSE i do? Not, Okay well that means it's time for. Listener.
Man i'm gonna call this the pain of, preemption because that's What michael called. It, hey, guys Love Saturday Morning cartoon. EPISODE i was born in eighty four and watched them well into high. School your episode covered a, lot but you left out one, thing the pain of. Preemption local channels carried the big networks would often cut off the cartoons to show.
Golf baseball or other.
Sports and as a, KID i, KNOW i never knew when this is gonna. Happen just, suddenly the joy of cartoon was abruptly halted show a golf match that no kid would care. ABOUT i never got to see The christmas Special, christopher The Christmas, tree or the last episode Of Ultimate. Muscle you haven't heard of any either one of.
THOSE i haven't, Either BUT i still feel for, him he.
SAID i don't want to bring down the, room but it's important to remember that those wonderful mornings could be broken at any. Time thanks for making such a great. Show that is From michael j. Crandall AND i forgot to Mention. Michael his initial salutation was Dear mike And.
Josh, wow he's got himself on the. BRAIN i. Know, well that was a great, Email, michael and thank you To mike for reading.
It, Okay i'll Be.
Mike, no you're Not, mike Your. Chuck everybody knows.
That that's my brother's middle name, too, though so that was a plat Yeah, Scott.
Mike oh, no, no, no that's his first.
NAME i forget my brother and my sister their middle name is their, name which is.
Interesting i'm not sure why that.
Happened this has gotten so confusing to.
Me He's Michael, scott is he?
Really? Yeah that's. Awesome why are you calling him that all the?
TIME i don't, KNOW i probably.
SHOULD i, mean that's the office, guy, right, yeah, yeah, YEAH i never have thought about that until right.
Now well that's What i'm going to call him from now. On all, Right, okay if you want to be Like michael crandall Not Michael scott and send us an, email we would love. That please. Do you can send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.
Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio for more podcasts my Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows