Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is the podcast. As just mentioned, we call it Stuff you Should Do. And by the way, we should say to any new listeners, we're not saying you should already know this stuff, so don't be hostile toward us about that. We're saying we think you should know this because it's so interesting we want to tell you about it.
Yeah, we could have changed the name of the show to Things that you might find interesting, but then again you might not as well, But that didn't have a ring.
Yeah, there's no implied dummy in the title of our podcast.
Okay, we're the dummies.
So I'll tell you somebody who wasn't a dummy as far as it comes to being a world class liar, maybe England's greatest liar ever. It was a spy from the World War Two beginning early Cold War era named Harold Kim Philby. And if that name rings a bell, well to sit back and enjoy this episode on a British spy. If you don't know who Kim Philby is, sit back, and enjoy this episode on a British Spy.
Your voice is going up like you were going to say something else. Is that it?
I just wanted to replicate it perfectly.
So big thanks to Dave who helped us with this. But Dave also wanted us to shout out, and we
want to shout out. A book by Ben McIntyre, A Spy among Friends Colon Kim Philby and The Great Betrayal, and also a mini series that I have not watched that I think I probably will now as six parter on Amazon MGM called A Spy among Friends from twenty twenty three, starring the winsome guy Pierce Oh Yeah, as Kim Philby or Harold Adrian Russell Philby as He was born in India in nineteen twelve because his dad was a colonialist. I can never say that word, right.
I think he nailed it, Philby Kim. He was nicknamed Kim because there was a Rudyard Kipling's story, a book I think about a street urchin raised on the streets of India who becomes a spy.
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah? It really is.
Because he got this nickname as a kid, like before he knew he was going to be a spy.
Right, He wasn't out in there like we're I call you Kim from now on. He Yeah, he grew up to be a spy. And he was nicknamed after a boy who grew up to be a spy, so it is pretty interesting. But everyone called him Kim Philby. And he was born in India nineteen twelve. His dad was a colonialist, like you said, his sympathies actually lay with India. He eventually quit the service and went to become a I think an advisor to the King of Saudi Arabia. Eventually, oh wow.
Well, at any rate, he was born to a well old family. His parents were gone a lot. He was raised by his Indian nanny. He went to Cambridge, so he was sort of on that track of not you know, royalty or anything, but probably aristocracy, you could say. And when he went to Cambridge it was the early nineteen thirties,
pretty rocky time. The Great Depression was happening, and that's when the fascists, especially in Germany and Italy, saw their sort of opportunity when people were wrecked by poverty, to step in and start controlling things.
Right. So communism became a thing among young Cambridge and intellectuals at the time, and communism was viewed as the antidote to fascism, which was on the rise at the time in the late thirties. And the reason I was, like, why, I don't understand that, because my geopolitics is seen through the view of an eighties American kid who lived through the end of the Cold War. Yeah, but communist is all about class and social equality. One of the defining
characteristics of fascism is a rigid hierarchy. So of course the aristocracy of Great Britain would be fully on board with a kind of ideology that said, yes, you're at the top, you deserve to be at the top, you should stay at the top. And so they aristocracy at the time definitely had sympathies with the Nazis because of their fascist leanings, and that did not sit well with these young Cambridge intellectuals who had bought fully into communism as the ideology to spread throughout the world.
Yeah, and it was especially a way for you know, kids to rebel against what their parents loved, which is a classic thing that kids and teenagers and young adults do. And in this case, these like you said, these young Cambridge elites were like, hey, communism is where it's at. Forget this. I was about to say patriarchy, but it was really you know, everybody, the upper class altogether. And you know, as far as Philby is concerned, he didn't.
He wasn't out there calling for a revolution or anything and let's go burn it down. He apparently never officially joined the Communist Party, but he was. He was a Communist through and through, like up until the very end. He was very committed to it, something he did not grow out of like his parents. I probably hoped he would.
I mean, out of all of the Soviet spies in the UK at the time, he was probably the most committed Communists.
Yeah, and as you'll see, there were plenty of chances to go a different way, and he never did.
No for sure. So he was at Cambridge and he met with a professor. And with this professor he said, hey, I really want to help communism, you know, spread throughout the world. What can I do? What as a young aristocratic Cambridge grad due to help communism? And this professor said, I so in Vienna right now, they're they're battling the commun and his comrades are battling a dictator named Engelbert Dolphus, and Dolphus is a fascist dictator, and you can go
to Austria and help. I don't know how, but just go to Austria and figure it out. And he did.
Yeah, he was like, oh, I was thinking a letter campaign or something, but but sure, I'll go to Austria and find a ruthless dictator. While he was there, he went to be in a lovely town, by the way, one of my favorites in Europe. He fell in love with a woman named Alice Lizzie Coleman, who was another young communist. They became a co revolutionaries and they you know, hooked up also in you know, in a more romantic way,
hugging and kissing that kind of thing. Okay, and Dolphus, the fascist dictator, said all right, we got to get rid of these communists and we will do so by whatever means we need to. And that Lizzy woman was on that list. She was pretty well known or you know, well known as far as the insider fascist dictators go. And they said, all right, we got to get out
of here. They realized the writing was on the wall, so they got married, they fled to England and in London he finally Kim Philby got in touch with a real Soviet operative at a secret meeting in Regent Park that was arranged by one of Litzi's communist friends, and it was game time. It was on from that point forward.
Yeah. So this real life communist was a Czech academic who was undercover for the Soviets as basically a spymaster. His name was Arnold Deutsch, or at least that's what he told people. I guess it's where Germany comes up in this one. His code name and what he used to communicate with people was auto Otto. Apparently it was huge insecurity. He would make Philby take like three taxis at least before they would meet. And this guy was like, okay,
I can do something with you. You're a like an aristocratic You're a member of the upper crust of British society, and right now, the upper crust of British society is if you're from them, you have total trust across the board. Let's take advantage of that.
Yeah, he was pretty ideal for that position. But he was like, how good of an actor are you though? Because that's what really matters if you're going to get into this. And Philby said, well, let's just say this one day, Guy Pierce is going to play me in a streaming series. And he was like, what does that mean? That makes no sense at all. He said, Okay, I'm a pretty good actor, and a good actor will eventually
play me. He's really got to fall into this part, you know, in such a perfect way that obviously no one's going to find out. That's the ultimate goal of being a mole is to be a great liar, and he was really really good at it. One of the things he had to do, though, was find a job to you know, as cover. And he's like, the perfect job for this would be a journalist.
Yeah. But one other thing he had to do, too was he had to he had to become, at least outwardly, what he despised the most, which was the quintessential English aristocrat.
Yeah. Right wing yep, right wing.
Fascist sympathies that aren't particularly well hidden, super conservative, very loyal to the British crown. Yeah, essentially everything you think of when you think of like a guy wearing a bowler hat in the forties in Great Britain carrying an umbrella on his forearm, right, Like, he did not like these people, and yet he now entered their world where he would stay essentially as a mole for years to come. And I mean it's I don't really sympathize with him
because of who he was and what a trader he was. Yeah, but I do sympathize with him in the idea of having to live your life like that around people you despise and have to pretend like you like them for years on end, or you are one of them for years on end. That had to be that had to definitely be rough on the old soul, you know.
Yeah, you know, here's the thing I never thought about. Seen so many stories on this kind of thing. We've read so many books and seen so many movies about double agents and people you know, lying for cover. But I always think about, like, oh, yeah, to live that lie and to keep that up, that must be hard.
Until we did this episode, I never thought about how hard that would be to just like be sleeping with the enemy essentially full time, and like all your friends, all your social circle, everything that comes out of your mouth, like has to be the thing that you hate the most. Right It's incredible. I never considered how hard that would be.
Right, So you said that he was told he needed a job, Yes, and he became a journalist.
Jo, you are in al That's m right.
That was his job. And the reason why it was such a great profession for him is that you can go all over the world as a journalist and you're just like, yeah, I'm covering the running of the bowl, so here i am. Or this Olympics is amazing, isn't it.
Yeah, Octoberfest, let's do it right.
Nobody's gonna question why you're in this country because you're covering something. That's one thing. Another thing, too, is if you are covering like elite people, you're kind of considered a member of the club just in and of itself. Right, So people let their guard down around you because you're an aristocrat, you're one of them. They know you won't say the things that they are saying off the record.
You won't print those in the paper, but you could sell them to the Soviets.
That's exactly right. So he gathered all sorts of off the record secrets and all this stuff from interviewing people at the highest echelons of power that they were sharing with him because he was one of them. He was just turning right around and giving it to the Soviets, like you said, So his career as a journalist to start out was it was a great choice.
Yeah, and it's just further reinforced the more he does it because he's not printing that stuff. So they're like, oh, Philby can really be trusted because it's taking off the record stuff and he's not printing it. This guy's great, that's right. So to sort of bulk up his cover, he got this job at the Anglo German Trade Gazette, which was a British newspaper, but it was at least in part financed by the Nazis and it was about just trying to get trade relations between Britain and Journey.
It was like a friendly newspaper between them. Yeah, so he had to you know, play this role of sort of quasi Nazi sympathizer and lose all of his friends in his life because all of his friends were these you know, sort of fellow ideologically aligned people, fellow leftists. Maybe not all of them communists, but he wasn't hanging out with these people until he started doing this this right wing sort of Nazi sympathizing group.
Yeah, he essentially pulled a Christopher Hitchins and just completely transformed from one way to the other. So at the time civil war broke out, this is in the thirties as well in Spain. Have you ever seen the orphanage? Yes, very creepy in the time of the Spanish Civil War.
Yeah, that was good.
Yeah, it was. On one hand you had the Fascists led by Francisco Franco and they were fighting the Communists led by Franco Francisco, and he was supposed to be a war reporter for the London Times, and I mean he was writing for the Times, but really what he was doing was working his way into the good graces of the fascists so he could spy on them for the Soviets, who would then in turn tell what agents to do what to undermine the Fascist side of the civil war.
Right, do you think there was ever any confusion about those two leaders?
Oh, I made that.
I thought you did very subtle though, thank you. I was trying to sniff you off the case, but in a way that made me look as less least dumb as possible.
Well, that's why you're the best all around boy.
Oh man, stop it, so we should mention, you know, sort of neither here nor there. But he and Lizzy had been divorced by this time. He was married four times total, but he would do things like strike up affairs in order to get into the places he needed to be. In this case, he had an affair with
an older woman Franco's inner circle. But while he was there, his car was bombed essentially not a car bombing, but just hit by a shelling during a bombing raid, and all three passengers in the car that were not named Kim Philby died and he just had minor injuries. So he was actually awarded the Red Cross of Military Merit from Franco himself gave him this award.
Yeah. One thing I saw real quick is that Kim Philby received the highest military honor possible from the Spanish, the Soviets, and the English, all while here was a spy for the USSR.
Wow, that's crazy.
So he gained so much access, like he was friendly with the highest levels of the fascist side of the Spanish government that the Soviets were like, we could just have him off Franco at this point, and they decided like, now we're just going to use up a valuable asset, and frankly, I'm not sure that that guy could do it. Yeah, so they didn't have him kill Franco, but he really proved his worth by infiltrating the fascists in the Spanish
Civil War. And by this time, well should we take a break and then come back and talk about his next round of stuff? We got a break, Okay, Well we'll be right back to talk about his next round of stuff. So, Chuck I was saying that Philby proved himself a very loyal communist spy and an effective one too. So Auto is like, hey, man, you got any friends, and Philby says, yes, yes I do. As a matter of fact, I have two very close friends from my Cambridge days who I think would fit the bill perfectly.
One of them was named Donald McClain. The other was Guy Burgess Burgess. I'm not sure which way he said it. I also saw a lot of conflicting information that Guy Burgess recruited Philby, and YadA ya YadA, But I think that the way that we've said it is correct.
I think so so he how he gets Don McLain not American pie Don McLain. He gets Donald McLain on the on the dole is he goes to dinner and he sort of hints around, you know, like hey, you know, what do you what do you think? And McLain was like, I'm all in, buddy this, I've been waiting on this. So he he had to do the same thing Philby did, was, you know, like leave all his sort of leftist friends
behind publicly come out in favor of fascism. And his other buddy, Guy Burgess, saw this happening and was like, Hey, what's going on here, dude? This is really fishy. I want in on this, Like I see what's happening here. And Burgess was not. I think McLain was a pretty decent fit for a spy, but Burgess was very loud, apparently a pretty obnoxious guy, and he was a barely closeted gay man at a time where homosexuality was illegal.
It was a crime in England. All that to say he was not a real sort of low key, under the radar, you'll be a good spy kind of guy. But the Soviets are like he's fine.
Yeah, it's crazy, Like he was a loose cannon if there ever was one, but they still recruited him anyway.
Yeah, and they became known as the Cambridge three. I think eventually there would be a Cambridge five in total though, right.
Yeah, there were two others that were kind of brought on, one of which was this lone wolf who was kind of acting independently. But what they had in common is they'd all five gone to Cambridge or instructed at Cambridge.
Right, and ended up being Soviet spies.
Oh yeah, that part two. Yeah, So when World War two broke out, the Soviets were like, oh, this is great. We're allied with England, you know, nominally, and we've got this guy on the inside. Let's have him join military intelligence. And just like everything else, military intelligence was run by the upper crust, the aristocracy of Great Britain at the time.
And so just like he went to that lefty professor at Cambridge and said what can I do to help the Communist cause, this spy version of Kim Philby went to the British aristocracy and said what can I do to help the Crown? I would really love to get into intelligence. They're like, well, come aboard to I six. We don't need to vet you. We'll look at your background and see if there's anything that pops up. Nothing did great, come aboard, here's every secret that we have in the entire nation.
Yeah, Like later on they literally asked, like about the vetting, and like how could this get past you? And they're like, yeah, he came to the right family and we knew the same people basically, Yeah, and this is how it was back then. By the way, look for a little preview. We got an episode on I six coming out at
some point. Nice looking forward to that. But he's all of a sudden working for six is in the perfect position to be a double agent because of where he worked, but also because he was I mean, this is why they get Guy Peers to play this guy. He was really really charming guy apparently just very smart, very quick witted. Apparently he would just make you feel like you're the only person in the room. People really really loved him and thereby trusted him very quickly. And a legendary drinker.
He could drink anyone under the table. And if you're in a cocktail party and you get people a little tipsy on whiskey, on that fine Scotch or British whiskey. They're gonna start spilling some secrets, and he's like Karen Allen in the First Raiders. You know, she could drink that guy under the table. So don't get into a drinking contest with Kim Philby or Karen Allen.
No. I think that Dave put it best though, when he really brought it home for me, at least to describe how charming this guy was. He said, Dave compared him to peak Hugh Grant. I almost web my pants when I read that. I was like, God, that's charming. That's how disarmed I was. I almost just peeded.
I haven't seen heretic yet. It looks good, though, I heard. It's pretty good.
Oh have you seen talk to me?
What's that?
It's another A twenty four horror movie? Hmmm?
Maybe what's it about?
I don't want to give it away. It's about where you can you can hold this this mummified hand and speak to the spirit world. You've not seen it. It's Australian.
I have not seen that.
Oh, it's so good.
I remember that.
You're going to love it.
Do you've become quite a horror movie guy over the past years.
Yeah?
No, I mean you like all kinds of stuff, right, does you? Is you mean into these scary movies?
Oh no, she'll she'll hang out on the couch with me and watch them. But she's not. She doesn't watch them, although I think she would even like talk to me. It's just so well done and there's only a few parts that are like scary scary. Yeah, it's just a really well thought out horror movie. It's really cool. It's good.
Well, and you're a You got an A twenty four tattoo on your lower back, so I know you're an adherent.
Yeah. They really are great.
All right, where were we? We were at Hugh Grant and we were talking about the drinking. All right, I guess let's talk about what was going on then with the Cambridge Three. This is a very successful well, all the Soviet spies combined were really successful, including the Cambridge Three. They over the course of their work, they sent the Soviets more than ten thousand documents during World War two.
Just World War two.
Oh yeah, and like the D Day invasion, advance notice stuff about the Manhattan Project, like some really big fish. They were getting fed this information and sometimes this would you know, this would lead to people dying because of information shared by Philby and others.
Yeah, so, Kim Philby. He wrote a memoir as We'll see you later on, but he showed zero remorse essentially for any of the lives that he that he cost essentially. One of the really good examples of this is some members of the Catholic resistance in Germany who were fighting the Nazis during World War Two. They approached the British Intelligence we should say six. I don't know if we said, that's the British equivalent of the CIA and America.
Yeah, is it military based? Because you said military intelligence. I thought they were just like the CIA. Yeah.
I don't know if their military intelligence or not.
I guess we'll find out when we do our am I six episode.
Exactly great point. But they came to MI I six, Some of these resistance leaders came to I six and they said, hey, we want to make friends with you because we think the Allies are going to win. We're fighting to make sure the Allies win, and afterward we want to build a Christian democratic Germany that's going to be super friendly with the West. So let's work together
after the war. Okay. See TATA for now and Philby, as a member of I six, found out about this, told the Soviets and basically the names and addresses of these people, and the Soviets went and killed them all because the Soviets wanted Germany to be Communists afterward, not open and democratic and Christian. So after the war, when I six went looking for these Catholic resistance leaders to help rebuild Germany, they were gone. They'd all been killed during the war thanks to Kim Philby.
Yeah, so that's just one example of many where lives were lost due to, you know, his intelligence gathering. After World War Two, this is when obviously the Americans and the Brits sort of turned toward the Soviet Union and the threat of Communism as the main enemy, and you know, kind of pre Cold War stuff. And you would think that this would be a tough thing all of a sudden, because Philby is really the enemy. But he was so
good at what he did. It was he just had an inside position, so it was not easier, but all of a sudden he was like he was really in the mix.
Yeah, and he was so good at lying. He was so good at playing this part sleeping with the enemy, like you said year after year after year that even when the Soviets were the enemy, now like he just he just coasted right through it like it was nothing, like there had been no change whatsoever for him. So he actually had a stroke of genius in nineteen forty four. He said, Hey, we really need to start worrying about
these Soviets. I'm worried that there's Soviet spies and six and I think we need to create a counterintelligence section for six dedicated to rooting out Soviet spies. Oh, man, do you know the wavos? It takes I know, man to suggest something like that when you're a Soviet spy, But at the same time, it really just shows Yeah, that was his mo. He would be like, you can't possibly suspect me because I'm the one suggesting this. That's
what he did. And they were like, great, idea, let's get somebody not you to do this, and they hired a guy named Felix Cowgil.
Yeah, exactly, get that old boy Cowgill on it. And Philby was like, Oh, that didn't go down like I wanted because I really need to head up this organization and not have this guy Cowgil. All of a sudden sniffing down my neck. So he starts a whisper campaign to sort of get Cowgill out of there. That's exactly what happened. And within a few months Philby is standing there, you know, at the ready to take over, a Soviet spy all of a sudden, in charge of the Soviet
counterintelligence for six. So McIntyre in his book, this is a pretty fun quote. He said the Fox was not merely guarding the hen house, but building it, running it, assessing its strengths and frailties, and planning its future construction.
He sounded like Hankazaria and mystery men.
This spins great. I'll take that.
I think that's a great quote too. He definitely yelds it. So this is what But that's the reality now, Like Kim Philby is the in charge of rooting out Soviet spies, yet he's a Soviet spy for six and yeah, so things are going along smoothly for I don't know, a couple of months, and then there's this really big deal that happens. There's a defector who worked at the Soviet embassy in Istanbul. His name was Konstantin Volkov, and Volkov
went to the British Embassy in Istambul. He said, hey, neighbor, get this. I know the names of dozens of Soviet spies embedded in British intelligence all throughout, and I will tell you their names if you give me fifty thousand dollars and they're like fifty thousand dollars in twenty twenty five money. He goes, no, no, no, fifty thousand dollars in
nineteen forty four money. That's a lot more. If you give me that and you help me and my wife defect to the West, I'll tell you all these people's names. And here's a little here's a little bit of sugar on top to get you interested. One of these spies is the head of a section of the British counter Espionage Service in London.
They said, oh boy, that's quite a Sweetenah. So Philby hears about this and instead of like, you know, freaking out, he was like, no, no, no, I've got this. He said, you know what this this? If it's that inside, we need to get an interview with this guy. Somebody needs to go interrogate Bolkov and how about I do that? And they're like cow only because no, exactly, and he said, you know, I should do this, and they, you know, they trusted him so much at this point, they're like, yeah, sure,
like who better to send? Right, He goes to Istanbul to meet with Volkov, but he never showed up because the Russians took care of that, right.
Yeah, he told the KGB that there was this Volkov defector in Istanbul and they needed to take care of him. So he looks totally innocent and legit like he's the head of I six Soviet counter espionage department, so it makes sense that he would go interview him one but it also just makes him look so innocent. Why would you go all the way over there to meet with somebody who knows not going to be there. Of course he's innocent. He went to the Stambul to meet the guy.
The guy just disappeared, that's all. And it was just another master stroke like that. I'm just I mean, I don't take my hat off the liars very often, but rats guy, definitely, he deserves a hat tip for coming up with this this stuff.
I mean, he was always one step ahead of things, so much so that you know, the Soviets eventually thought that he might be like a triple agent or double crossing them or something, because you know, they were like, how's this guy moved up so quickly and all of a sudden he's running the Department six. That's to like, it's pretty genius, comrade, but it's all very suspicious to them, and they were a pretty paranoid bunch at that point.
They probably still are, and they always wondered what the deal was, but like his information always checked out, it was always golden, so they really had no choice but to go along with things. He would eventually go to America. He was assigned I six chief and DC. So if he was like a charming guy in England with that accent and his drinking ability, he was like, just multiply that times one hundred in the United States as far as the charm factor.
Goes, right exactly. So yet again he's done some amazing maneuvering. He's in DC's hanging out with the most connected embedded members of the CIA, the FBI diplomatic circuit from the State Department, Like everybody who's anyone in DC this guy's partying with. And you said that he was well known as it's just like a he had a hollow leg.
He was just such an amazing drinker. He could drink as well as anybody, like maryon from Where's the Lost Arc You said, Apparently he could get so drunk that he couldn't engage in a conversation, but he was always listening and he could still type up a pretty great report the next day for his handlers based on the stuff he'd overheard while he was blackout drunk. Essentially, so
this really jibed with America. Like the Americans at the time, they loved drinking like that, just like the Bricks, maybe even more so. So he would just drink with everybody. Okay, but close to tide at least you can agree. So he would just drink with everybody. That's how he became a trusted confidant. Apparently, also he was a genuine friend, Like he met some people along the way that he really became friends with, and I think later on he
said that he missed some of them. But that combination of being one of them in the intelligence community, being able to drink as well as anybody so he can have fun at cocktail parts, being charming, and then also being in a legit friend, he really got his hooks into people over in the US as well.
Yeah, for sure. One of the guys he really butted up with. His name was James Angleton. He was a counterintelligence chief of the CIA for two decades, so good guy to know. They had already met apparently from when they were younger in England, so they were you know, hooked up again and became really really close, and so he thinks they're like really good friends. So he's just
spelling everything to Philby because they're buddies, right. One example is he told Philby about a military operation called Operation Valuable, where the Brits and the Americans were going to overthrow the dictator of Albania to keep them from joining the Soviet block, and they were training exiles to sort of
mount this fight, you know, against against their dictator. And Philby passes this along to Moscow, and before you know it, these Albanian authorities are like ready and waiting when this uprising happens and just slaughtered all these foreign trained exiles and basically quashed everything. The revolution was no more.
Right, and so there's a whole bunch of heads also on Philby as well from that.
Yeah, we should probably take another break.
Yeah, yes, let's take a break, all right.
We'll come back and talk about well Kim Philby right after this. All right, so we're back here for act three. It is now nineteen forty six, and we're going to talk a little bit about something called the Venona decryption. That was you know, everyone had their secret codes that they used to encrypt things in those days, and they
still do. But nineteen forty six, American cryptologists cracked that code that the Soviets were using, the Venona decryption, and they said, hey, let's just not use this going forward. Let's go back and dig through all the stuff for World War Two and see if we can get anything out of that. And in nineteen fifty they decoded a message from the past that identified a Soviet spy. No,
not Yuri, It's not wild. I was about to ruin no Way out a movie that came out like thirty something years ago, but I'm not going to do that. I'll just say Uri because it's a really good movie and you should see it if you haven't. But they identified as Soviet spy named Homer who worked at the British Embassy in DC in nineteen forty four, and Philby was like, oh man, I'm reading this thing. Homer's McLean. It's my friend, right and if they get him, then
my cover's blown. And you know, right now he's in a good spot because everyone thinks he's like me, just a straight up Cambridge boy who's doing God's work for the crown. But more evidence started coming out, and another decoded message came out saying that Homer's wife was pregnant and staying with her mother in New York. And he was like, it's really obvious it's you now, So I gotta kick this thing into action.
Yes, so I guess as an example of what kind of friend he was, he took it upon himself to get in touch with the KGB and be like, McLean's blown. He needs to get out of here. But just McLean, Because if just McLean had to flee and it seemed like it was just McLean who was the spy, he could weather that pretty well. He could be like, I can't believe this. I was as duped as you were.
If his other friend, the other member of the Cambridge three, guy Burgess, also fled, it would be really hard for Kim Philby to be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe my two best friends or Soviet spies, but not me. So he told Guy Burgess, like, McLean's leaving, you cannot leave. You have to stay here. We're going to ride this out together. Just we'll be okay. And Guy Burges said, yes, absolutely, and he dipped with McLean two, leaving Kim Philby to hold the bag.
Yeah, and he was holding the bag because he didn't know this was coming. Moscow didn't say that was going to happen, so word gets out. It's pretty clear that there's a third man que the zither and that had, you know, said hey, Moscow, here's what's going on. So the writing's on the wall. He knows he's about to be found out, even though he had all this protection as the Cambridge boy, these other two guys being Cambridge gentleman being moles and just sort of disappearing. You know,
it could be anyone. So he knew that the writing was on the wall. He's everyone's starting to remember, like, wait a minute, all three guys were super leftists, like communists in college, and they really turned, they really changed their mind on how they felt about things ideologically really quickly. And then there's also the Volkoff Affair and Operation Valuable and like all the things that Philby's assigned to are going tits up.
Yeah, well put he he could have fled too. He didn't though, He's like, I think the best thing I can do is stay here, and just by having the guts to stay here, it'll make me look all the more innocent, like it will back up my claim right, like what person in his right mind would be a Soviet spy? And when he's basically outed, stick around to say no, I'm not a spy. And that's exactly what he did. And am I sick at the end where they said, okay, we'll believe you, and they circled the
wagons around him again because he was an aristocrat. But the CIA, the FBI, M I five, which is like the UK's version of the FBI, all of them were like this guy, Kim Philby, he's the third man, he's a Soviet spy and I six would not hear of it. And there is actually a riff that developed between six
and the other agencies. But the reason why I six was willing to do this was because, like we said, he was such a good friend, that is true friends who were left who weren't spies came to his defense, and they staked their reputations on Kim philby not being the third man, the Soviet spy that was still embedded in the in six.
Yeah, and those were James Angleton, who he talked about, the CIA guy for twenty years. In a guy named Nicholas Elliott, a career guy at mi I six, so they him from being prosecuted. He couldn't still work at m I six. He was forced to resign. They couldn't save his job. But when this all came out, he should have been it should have been like over for him,
but he held it again. The Wabels. In this guy, he holds a press conference at his mom's house in London and like live on camera, just very openly and convincingly answers all these pointed questions from reporters, saying like my two friends deceive me. Everyone ended up believing him. And while this made him like technically a free guy, he didn't have that job anymore, and he thrived on that job. So he was pretty miserable at this point and drinking way way too much.
Yeah, for not the last time in his life. He almost drank himself to death between nineteen fifty one and nineteen fifty six, when he was just totally unmoored in a drift. He was no longer an am I six. The Soviets had cut off contact with him, and his friend Nicholas Elliott, one of those guys who would stake their reputation on Kim Philbey not being a Soviet spy.
He he pulled some strings. He used to be this I six station chief in beay Root, and he got in touch with some friends at the Observer and at the Economist and said, why don't you take this guy, Kim Philby as one of your reporters. He's a longtime journalist. He used to be a journalist and covered the world. Why don't you put him to work in Beyroot? And they did. They put him in as a Middle East correspondent for both of those papers.
And while this happened, or sort of shortly after this happened, Elliott said, and you know what, you can start working for MI I six again, just on the down low, right. We'll throw you some bones here and there you can go to work. So now Philby has this once again. He's a journalist again. He's quietly working for I six again. And he could have just you know, played it straight from this point forward and been like, all right, I
got back on track. But he calls up through Ruskies and he's like, guess what, oh, boys, guess who's back in and immediately, you know, because of his love of Communism is one thing, I think, but the author of that book, Mackensire, also makes a point that and I think a good one, that he was sort of addicted to this kind of lifestyle, the deception lifestyle of drinking
and philandering and leading these two lives. Like he seemed to really thrive off of that subterfuge and could not give it up right.
So he was back in and again he was happy to be alive once again. And I think this lasted for about a year. A woman named Flora Solomon came forward. She had been reading some of Philby's articles in either The Observer of the Economists or both that were unflattering toward Israel, and Flora Solomon was dedicated to the cause of Israel and did not like that. So she said, you know what, I've had this thing in my pocket
for thirty years. Kim Philbey approached me when we were back at Cambridge and asked me if I wanted to become a Soviet spy and I said no, and then I just let it go for thirty years until he ticks me off. And so this was this was it, Like she said, this guy is a Soviet spy, told an editor at one of the papers, either the Economists or the Observer. Again they turned around and told six, and Kim Philby was in again in trouble, and this time he had nobody to swoop in to help him out.
He was he was basically cooked.
I feel like those kind of loose ends don't happen in intelligence anymore, Like, oh, this woman who you tried to recruit as a spy is just out there with this information.
I read why Why Because m I six at the time was doing something called negative vetting. They would look at your record, your file, whatever they had on you, and as long as nothing no red flags popped out, you were in, rather than positive betting, where they conducted an actual background like a background investigation on you. That they went to the trouble of like doing research as long as there's no problems your wow. So that was one reason why it changed.
Okay, well that makes sense. Thank glad you knew that. Thank you. So where were we? Okay, So he was in trouble. He couldn't deny, you know, what was going on any longer. His buddy, Nichol Nicholas Elliott was pretty upset. Obviously, he volunteered to go to beir route and get a confession out of Philby, and he tried to deny it to him still, but Elliott was he was super upset at this point, and he was like, you're you're my friend. You pulled a charade over my eyes. The blank the
charad over my eyes. The wool the wooly blanket has been pulled over my eyes, old boy, and he was, he was, he was ticked off. And finally he was like, hey, listen, give me a full confession. I can make sure you're not prosecuted for this. Philby knew that like even if that happened, he wouldn't be like a free man. Like the m I six was all of a sudden going to put the thumb screws on him to try and
get all the information he ever had about the Soviets. Right, the Soviets were probably going to try and snuff him out right. So he's like, I gotta just leave. I got to get the heck out of here.
Well, he compromised, so just this past January they declassified the confession that he gave to Nicholas Elliott, and in it he basically said, yes, I spied for the Soviets, but only while they were allies to the UK, just in World War two yea, and in nineteen forty six I stopped. So he compromised. He had to give them something, but he also didn't give them enough that the Soviets would want to kill him.
Right right, well, hopefully right.
Exactly, and that Nicholas Elliott had a great quote when he went to bay Rude. He said, I once looked up to you, Kim, My God, how I despise you. Now. I hope you've enough decency left to understand why.
Yeah, so painful.
Philby's sitting there, He's doing three days of interviews with Nicholas Elliott, and on the third day he's like, that's enough. I'm out of here. And he vanished from be Root in January of nineteen sixty three, shortly after telling his wife he'd meet her at a diplomatic dinner party that evening, and he hopped on the Soviet freighter and slipped away so easily that even the KGB was like, We're pretty sure Nicholas Elliott let him slip away.
Yeah, And he may have, because just to let him quietly leave was a lot less embarrassing for England than to put him on trial and to go through this big public spectacle where all these people are trotted out and ask like, how did this guy get away with this for so long under your watch? So he left. He lived in Moscow for the rest of his life. Yeah, twenty five years. You can google pictures of like an
elderly Kim philby walking around Moscow. He eventually would die in a Russian hospital in nineteen eighty eight, and never said a bad word about the reign of terror from Stalin or anything like that. He got the Order of Lenin, like you said, was awarded the highest honors in three different, very opposing places.
Right exactly.
He was so good at lying in his spycraft.
He also, I mean, he was considered, i think still to this day is considered a national hero in Russia. He was featured on a postage stamp in nineteen ninety as part of the Soviet intelligence Agent series of postage stamps. And I think he got full military KGB honors when
he was buried in Moscow. And yet I read this blog called Cipher Brief and they basically say the big problem they did, in an addition to all the lives lost because of him, was just the damage he did at creating paranoia in all of the intelligence agencies which tore themselves apart looking for Soviet spies because they found
out that they were not just three, but five. And they tore themselves up for decades to come looking for that fifth one because they didn't know who it was, and it turned out it was a guy named John karn Cross. And then there was another one named Anthony Blunt, who was the art curator for the Crown, but he was a trader at any rate. That was one of the big lasting legacies Kim Philby left behind him was just utter paranoia.
Yeah, I mean, if it could have been them, it could have been anyone. And it was also this sort of this bedrock thing of that up until then had been you know, if you come from the right family, if you come from the right world, then you're to be trusted as an insider. M h. It rocked them to the very foundation.
Well put chaps, you got anything else?
Well no, But since he said chap, I think you know what that means.
It means that I've unlocked less than her mail.
That's right. This is from it says Emily. But there's a little is it an accent? Al goo or grove which is the one that goes from northeast to southwest? Like I know, okay, that's above the east. So I'm not sure how Emily pronounces the name. There might be emil.
No like you would pronounce the e. If it has an accent. There's something to it, eh Mel. Thank it all right?
Hey, guys, been listening since around twenty eighteen provided me much comfort, entertainment, and knowledge, So thank you. I'm from Montreal and I love your poutine short stuff episode. I'm somewhat of a poutine super fan and purist. It's been on my mission to try and rate as many poutines as possible throughout Quebec to find my favorite. I thought i'd share my personal poutine rating system with you because I've found it to be a rigorous method. Nice poor criteria.
Number one cheese kurt how squeaky? Are the kurds too big or too small?
Okay?
Number two? Gravy sauce too sweet? Tomato e not salty enough? Too runny?
Tomato we.
Eh, I don't know, okay. Uh, French fries too limp ugh? Is the cut tooth thick? Are they tasteless? Oh?
Yeah? Do they taste like Wendy's tasteless fries?
Oh not on the Wendy's fries?
Huh No?
Pretty good dipped in a frosty though, Yes. Assembly is the cheese gravy fry ratio just right? That's a big one.
Yeah.
Is the portion too big or too small? And bonus fifth criteria the value for money.
Oh that's a good good extra one there at the end.
Yeah, pretty good. Even though poutine is a simple dish, Guy's the beauty of it is so that it can be adapted to everyone's own personal taste. Thank you very much for the podcast. To all the team have a nice day.
That is from Emele, Thank you very much, Emilay Emily. That is a great test, a litmus tests, if you will, for poutine. In my opinion, it would be really tough for the gravy too potato ratio to be too much gravy. It'd be easy to be too little gravy, but too much gravy would be hard to achieve.
In my opinion, that could lead to a soggy fry, though.
That just means you're not eating them fast enough.
Good point.
All right, Well, if you want to be like Emily and send us your own personal litmus test for something or other, we love that kind of stuff, you can send it to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.