Jealous much?

It's just obsessive, like theater acting, sort of fantasy league thing. Am I the the dummy in it? Like? Are you just I'm Josso. Yeah, I figured I figured you did that in your underwear in the mirror every mornings. It's really good and the numbers like we're rivaling our own show now open people love it. I'm surprised that hasn't overtaken it yet. Wait, it's that one. Oh I didn't know that was you? What. There's probably people out there like,

oh my god, I gotta hear this. Let's get to it showing enough of this riff raff crap enough, Okay, Chuck, You're ready. October this month? Uh is National apple Jack Month, National pickle Peppers Month, National Breast Cancer Aware this month. Did you notice the Delta Stewards and Stewardesses pink everywhere? I love it. It's National Mental Illness Awareness Month, National Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual History Month. And just so happens that

we're recording this on Pride weekend, which makes sense. Um, it is National country Ham Month. Really, there's a lot of October is a big month that kind of overshadows Breast Cancer Awareness Month, Country Ham. It depends on the country Ham. I would say, uh, And then I guess most apropos to this podcast, which I wasn't aware of, but I don't think you were either. Um, It's National Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Really, yes, And I say it's a propos of this podcast because this is a podcast

on jealousy. Jealousy is one of the more widely recognized triggers of domestic violence. Did you know that? Did not? But it makes sense? Um. According to a two thousand three alone I study um in relationships that were domestically violent, it was male on woman domestic violence, and there is such thing as the other way around, um, women who

were abused. As long as it was attended by jealousy, it was perceived by the battered woman as um less negative and that deserves but less negative than um non jealous violence. Interesting. Yeah, um, which is it's very interesting, and it's really weird because it kind of goes it speaks to our perception of jealousy. It's a it's a weird, undesirable, unflattering emotion. Um. And yet it also shows we care in certain ways. Right, Clearly, domestic violence is far far

beyond any level of caring. But it's so it's it can even spill over that far the idea that jealousy equals caring, that it can it can reach violent levels. That is one of the more messed up things I've heard in a long time. And because as I can hear the scenario of well, he was just jealous because I was talking to that guy at the bar, which means he loves me, which is like, that's so messed up. It is very because I josh am of the belief.

Before we get started, here's Chuck's oppinion rant. These are the two things that Chuck says about jealousy. This is not backed up in any scientific way. I believe that A there is no place in jealousy in any healthy relationship. In the article, it says like jealousy can be good as long as I don't agree B. Because of that, I think jealousy pops up when you when there are trust issues should never be trust issues. When there is an unhealthy dependence on one another should never be that.

And when one or both of the parties is really really insecure with each other. I disagree. All right, then I don't disagree to like a polar opposite degree. Um, but I do think I did agree with the article where it says towards the end, the psychologist that was um interviewed for this article suggests that a certain degree of what's called normal jealousy is healthy. UM. I don't think it's possible to have a relationship that doesn't have

some sort of trust issues you're looking at it. I have zero trust issues, zero jealousy, Emily, I've never had anything like that. That is fantastic for you. I am of the opinion, though, that jealousy in small measure to a certain degree is symptomatic of a healthy relationship. Really. Yeah, all right, let's get into it. Okay, you're ready. What is jealousy Chuck? First of all, jealousy envy same thing.

Uh No, not at all. They're in fact quite different because envy, Josh is when you want something that you do not have that someone else has, right, usually an object near or whatever. The job, jobs, an object is it if you write it down, if you draw a picture of your job, it becomes an object. Whereas jealousy is a fear of losing something that you have to someone else, like a job or an object. So you want something that somebody else has an envy and jealousy

you already have something, but you fear losing it. Yeah. And like you know, relationships are usually where you talk about jealousy, So you basically fear that you're gonna lose your mate to the dude at the bar. And jealousy, Chuck is an emotion. So let's talk briefly about emotions. But they're um, primary emotions like fear, disgust, anger, joy, uh, and a couple others okay, um, And these are found in just about any animal with the brain, right, um.

And then there's secondary emotions that are self conscious emotions that include jealousy, right, jealousy, shame, guilt, embarrassment, pride, um. You have to have a sense of yourself and awareness of yourself in relation to others to experience secondary emotions like jealousy, because jealousy, you can't be jealous of anything if there's not another person or another something. It takes

two to be jealous, right. Yeah. And Ralph Hopka, he's a professor of psychology at cal State Long Beach heap I know, was interviewed for this article and he put it really succinctly. He said, jealousy is an anticipatory emotion. It seeks to prevent loss. That really sums it up right there. But it also makes jealousy really really unusual because think about it, like all relations or all um emotions are reactionary. Really, there's like a stimuli or stimulus

and it you react to it. You feel fear because of it, you feel joy because of it. Jealousy is the prospect of of experiencing something, so that makes it an antecedent to other emotions like anger or fear, right it comes first. Yeah, Yeah, it's weird, it's unusual, and what our emotions chuck if not motivators, right, Fear motivates you to like move away from the man coming at you with a knife. Joy motivates you to like do

that again or break out in song? Right, Uh, and then I guess jealousy motivates you to take measures to prevent that loss. Interesting. Yeah, all right, this is gonna be a fun one, alright, because rarely do we come at it from different angles. Uh. Since we're talking about m V, do you want to talk about your penis? Uh? Sure, that's one of my favorite things talking about Uh. Freud. Sigmund Freud, the psychoanalyst UM came up with the concept of penis envy and I had a general idea of

what it was, and it wasn't very far off. But it wasn't until this article that I read what penis MV is. It is defined the psychoanalytic concept in which a female envyes male characteristics or capabilities, especially the possession of a penis. Right, Yeah, what's that gonna do with jealousy? It doesn't, but it is interesting and I didn't realize I didn't understand why this um was put into this either. This is one of the more feminist articles on the site. Yeah,

I thought so. Um. But in in this little sidebar, penis envy? Um. Basically what Freud came up with was that all women want to be men, and all of their accomplishments and feats are the result of a sense of competition with men, or they're trying to make up for their shortcoming of lacking a penis interesting. Obviously this has been generally discarded, but pertinent to your your your

question of what it has to do with jealousy. Nothing, because that's envy and we've already cleared the air between what's envy and what's jealousy. I just thought it was an interesting side it is. Can we talk about jealousy? Sure, Chuck, Uh. There are there have been studies. It's kind of a difficult thing to study, um, because you know, you want to study if gender has an even to do with it, if age has anything to do with it, if ethnicity

has any to do with it. And it's hard for like age, because you'd have to interview someone at the age of fourteen as an adolescent, and then again in their thirties and then their fifties, and that's sort of a hard study to pull off. Yeah, the same person

you'd have to interview. One of the reasons why it's so hard is because, well, it's a longitudinal study, but with jealousy specifically, it's so um contextual, culturally contextual that as the culture just expectations of what might make someone

jealous change as well. Sure that was the reason at least given in this in this um, in this article, but other longitudinal studies have been carried out, and it could considerably be carried out, but apparently no one's done it on jealousy, right, Yeah, but there have been some really cool studies just about different aspects of jealousy and they have found some pretty cool water cooler things that

you can wow your buddies tomorrow. And the cubicles. Um. Women they've always thought have showed jealousy a little more than men do. And we'll get into the emotional and sexual jealousy in a minute. But one study revealed that women when they're jealous tend to aim their ire more often at the rival, whereas the male will aim the ire at their partner a fisher. Interesting, yeah, great example of that's really great example, Um, what lies beneath fatal attraction?

Glenn posts yeah, although she kind of came after the family wholesale energy. Yeah. And then there's always the lorrain of Bobbitts who just fly in the face of that, and and the woman who run who ran over her husband in Texas member with her daughter in the car. Right. Yeah. So I mean I'm gonna end up saying this, I might as well say it. I think it's all very personal, Like it's hard to do a sweeping study of jealousy and say people say this and people do this because

everyone's different. Yeah, and this other um, this supplemental study from two I think that you came up with kind of underscores that it supports that idea, Chuck. I think jealousy is far more personal than it's been treated in the past as well. Um, for the most part, it was viewed as um, it was divided by gender, and there are there are studies that support that that women

tend to be more jealous than men, right. Uh. And that's I guess you have to be very careful with your wardening there, because it's really easy to uh skew that idea the wrong way. It doesn't mean that women experience it's jealousy more than men. Necessarily. It just means that women display jealous characteristics more than men according to

these studies. Well, yeah, and they say that one reason might be that they're not more jealous, they just are more open and honest with expressing that the men um. Since you brought that study though, it is pretty interesting. They there's long been the belief that, uh, men are more upset about sexual infidelity, women are more upset about emotional infidelity. Actually that is true, but they always thought that it was evolutionary in its basis because men, ah,

and this is pretty interesting. There's no way to for men to have proven that they're the father of a child, right, So men were always very like guarded about sexual behavior. Well, they guard their mate because they my wife, my you know, Tuktok is pregnant, and I don't know if it was you know me, or if it was Ringo star over there. Oh that's from caveman, and I don't know if Tuktok was. But and women are more com admitted to raising a family and having a partner, so like an emotional betrayal

would be you know, more devastating to them. But the scientist at a Penn State said, well, what about the fact that there's men who are really upset about emotional betrayal just like women are, Like, how do you explain that? And they did some studies and they found that it's not necessarily evolutionary and nature right, No, it's uh. What they came up with was that it was much more

personal and specific. UM. Basically, what these two these two researchers hypothesized was that UM, men tend to be more sexually jealous and women tend to be more emotionally jealous or jealous over emotional betrayal and sexual betrayal. UM because men are more likely to detach from personal relationships as

a defense mechanism. That was their hypothesis, And they carried out the study and they found that their hypothesis was really correct, that men who are detached from relationships, which they theorize as a defense mechanism, are more likely to report that they would be turned off or made jealous

by a sexual betrayal than an emotional betrayal. But what they found and what I think they were trying to point out, was that their their hypothesis explains the why there's a population of men who are in securely committed relationships who consistently report that an emotional betrayal is way worse than a sexual betrayal. So it's they're saying, like, there are there there is a division of jealousy by gender. But here's why it's not because you know, men can't

prove that that that's not their kid. That it's actually much more personal than that. Did you know that? Men? One of the most common reactions that a man has when they first find out that their wife is pregnant is whose is it? Even in committed like awesome marriages, It's like a very common psychological reaction to think like that can't be mine? What? Yeah, where did you read this? I read it? That's it. I can't remember. Yeah, I did so many sights I want to rag on right now. Alright,

chuck um Well quickly though about that study too. It also points out that the person's history has a lot to do with it, So right, it's a defense. Yeah, Like, I'm not a jealous person at all, like I said, and I have no trust issues, but if I had been cheated on a bunch of times, I might sure, and I throughout this podcast or I'm going to refer to nameless friends of mine, And I do know this one couple who the guy had a history of cheating and the girl had a history of cheating. They hooked up,

they got married, and they're both pretty jealous. Oh yeah, I mean it's and they've been mary happily married. It's not like they're they're not a good couple, but they're both just inherently jealous because they're both cheaters. Right. It's kind of goes back to that, um judge not less you be judged, or when you point a finger, there's

three pointing back at you. The concept that actually encountered the Yeah, the concept that if you have cheated, um, you are aware that people can do that to other peopure. And on the same coin, if you've been cheated on, you're acutely aware that that can happen. And I think both of those situations can lead to jealousy too. I think that's what that past state study was was saying that, like you said, it's much more personal than of evolutionary

origin divided along gender. Right, Um, so, Chuck, let's let's um. There have been other studies too that are some are hokey, some deserve rim shots, some deserve sad hombones UM. But apparently some studies have focused on jealousy as an individual um emotion, not necessarily needing another person that it um

is or it originates in the self right. And one of the things that they found was men who are tall and women who are average height tend to be less jealous than um men who are short or women who are shorter or taller. And basically the point is is that they know everybody wants them well. And I think beyond that, it goes back to what I was saying. I think the root of a lot of jealousy lies in the insecurities of a person. And you know, short guys are often insecure. Okay, So if jealousy is an

insecurity we're breaking new ground here, are we. Yeah, it sounds like it, Okay, Jealousy is an insecurity insecurity based emotion, right, I believe so, Yes, And what we're finding is that it can be It can originate from the self feelings of insecurity based on appearance, um, height, attributes, what have you, or it can be inflicted by another person e g. Cheating or being cheated on, or doing anything to break someone's trust right right, trust breaking dude, we get our

pH ds today, Chuck, Yes, Uh, should we talk about adolescent jealousy for a little bit, Yeah, adolescent jealousy, Josh is um kids are pretty jealous. Like, there's some of the more jealous creatures on earth. If you sit around and watch kids, there's two types. There's one that is inherently wants to share a lot and it's very kind and giving. And there's one that doesn't want to share. They want what you've got, They want your Lincoln logs, they want to break your toys. And uh. Kids often

display this, and especially with siblings with sibling rivalry. But they say rivalry whatever, and they say that's a really normal behavior though, and not to get too worked up about it as a parent, and to kind of stay out of it unless you know it gets violent and let them figure it out on their own. But that that makes you wonder, like our kids more jealous or are they just more emotionally honest? Well, maybe have they?

Have they not learned that you need to kind of keep a lid on that kind of thing that or not emotionally mature. It depends on how you look at it. Jealous either way, is that right? Were you did you happen to be extremely lonely or extremely insecure. I think I was insecure in my high school relationship and that

made me really jealous. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, so check that that's actually kind of normal to experience jealousy as far as friendship, jealousy is an adolescent according to a study that was produced in uh, well, not produced but published instead in developmental psychology, right, and I basically found that kids who are insecure or lonely, or experience insecurity

or extreme loneliness tend to um be jealous of friendships. Right, So when they get into a friendship, they are jealous of their friends friends to the point where it can erupt and physical aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness where they're, you know, ignoring their friend and their friend has no idea. Why. Yeah, that's basically another way to put it. It's high school. Yeah,

like you know, and I was. I sort of became friends with a popular crowd in about the tenth grade, and I never remember being jealous because I was just so excited to be in the cool club. So I was never jealous. I was just like, yeah, I like everybody, and everybody likes me, and it's all great, but it was the girlfriend that I was jealous of, but I had reason to be. I think I think it's pretty normal too. I think high school is how do you? How do you ever make it through there? Don't know.

I always feel so bad for kids that like take their own lives in high school because it's just like just just hung on a couple more years, you know, gets so much better. Believe me, Yeah, we can message that out to our high school friends. If you're lonely and depressed out there on so much better. High school is really the anyone who who's high school was the high point of their lives, they are the sad people

in your past eventually exactly. Um so chuck uh. The that study I was talking about in developmental psychology, it was pretty comprehensive. They interviewed ninth graders and asked them about hypothetical situations and found, um, it was reinforced that girls tend to be more jealous than guys. Um, which is something that I think psychology is having a lot of trouble like addressing because it's just such a m It's a misogynist finding girls are jealous. It's so cliche.

It's so the other word I'm trying to think of. Um, but it apparently is this open secret in psychological research into jealousy, right, or again, like you're saying, or are girls more emotionally Uh, what's the word? Um? Honest? Expressive? Honest? Yeah, but when it comes down to a study, there's no distinction. Yeah, that's true. I mean it's open displays of jealousy that you're looking for, or at least honesty in whether or

not you'd be on jealous right. And I could see a lot of high school boys not being in a study like this, not wanting a cop to it. Yeah for sure. Yeah, Um, you're talking about types of jealousy. Adolescent jealousy is racked with sibling rivalry, right. Um, that's just I was second fiddle to my um middle sister, like my whole Still to this day, I'm like the baby of the family. I'm like, oh, you know, I'm going to be on TV next week and everybody's just

like whatever, So, Mandy, how are the kids? Uh you know about my my handsomer, thinner, smarter, older brother. Yeah, he and I correspond pretty regularly these days. He guys writing each other, does that make you jealous? Does uh? He he is was always better than at me school and you know, better looking, and like I said, he's

in better shape. But we were I was never jealous of him because my parents were always really good about just they didn't you know, Scott was good at this and you're you're good in other areas, and they were good about building me up, and you're good at growing facial hair. Yeah, exactly, Well, actually that is where I beat him. Yeah, he's he's a little he's he can grow a little goatee and a little stash, but he struggles in the facial hair department. Good. Maybe he's jealous

of my facial I bet he is. He would never admit a chuck, but he is okay take it from me, and he never rubbed it into That can make you jealous, I guess if he stuffs it in your face. But we just always got along really great. Yeah. And you were saying did your parents stay out of it? Um? Yeah, I mean they stayed out of fights when we had him, and they definitely didn't say, Well, look at Scott's report

card compared to yours. He got a's and you've got bees. Yeah, Well, who does that unless you're like a sadistic out there,

that's crazy. Um. Yeah, my parents stayed out of mine and my sister's relationship to UM, And apparently that's the right, that's the that's the way to UM single handedly pretty much, but that's apparently the way to go according to some uh child psychologists, like stay out of it, let them handle it themselves, because um, not only are they learning how to, but you might also actually like one more

than the other. And then you come through loud and clear to the one when you unconsciously side with the other, right, UM. So apparently let your kids as long as they're not beating the tar out of each other, you're all right. Right. So that was a sibling rivalry, which is also called family jealousy. UM. And then I imagine there's other types of family jealousy to like, um, apparent one parent being jealous of the other because they're getting all the attention

of the kids. But that exists, um. And then of course there is well there's all sorts of complexes at a pole electoral, just all sorts of crazy family dynamics going on. I got older sister too. I never talked about Michelle. I should mention that she's six years older, so there was no there was no jealousy between like the sexes. We were all our own people. How how how much older is your brother? It's three years in six years, so three three and three romantic jealousy, Josh,

you wanna talk about that? That's really the big one. Yes, this is the one where apparently everyone else on the planet, but you and Emily experienced this. I know plenty of couples who aren't jealous of each other. Yeah really, yeah, is that news to you? Yeah, I've I've never ever had a relationship that, like, didn't have some jealousy here. There wasn't a constant, it wasn't a thread, and it

wasn't debilitating by any means. Right, I've never I've never been in a relationship that didn't have that didn't exhibit some form of jealousy somehow. And I don't I don't know that I would feel comfortable in one that doesn't. I wonder if it's over sharing. But that's how that's how. Well, let me ask you this. You go to a party with you me, you split up, and you see her over at the beer keg because you know the keggers were good to see at this age just talking to

some guy. Would you immediately feel jealousy or just think she's just talking to some guy? Um? Honestly, UM, I would say that in that situation because I trust her, I would assume that she's talking to some guy. But I would eventually go over there if it like continued or if she saw her talking later on or something like that, And UM, it wouldn't be for her. I wouldn't be trying to intervene toward her. It would be like, hey, guy, she's got a boyfriend kind of you know what I mean?

You want to go? I know her and I trust her, Um, and I don't know that guy, right, And I know that I don't know the guy and the guy doesn't know I exist or whatever, although knowing you me, he does know I exist. So that just makes me more app to go over and be like take a hike. For all you know, he could be dropping a roofy in her in her That's exactly right, And this is why I think that there is it is healthy to experience some form of jealousy, because if I was totally

not jealous, I wouldn't have gone over there. I wouldn't have cared, and you know, I would have had my back to my girlfriend, which whatever, I don't think that's a good thing. I guess that's me then no, No, But here's the thing, Chuck, I guarantee you. I guarantee you. We're going to get listener mail supporting your view and supporting my view. I don't think there's a right or

wrong view. I think you should you know, when there's an uncomfortable amount of jealousy in your relationship or a bunch you know, you know, and if you're getting beat up because your husband or boyfriend's jealous and you don't know, go get help because you that's too much. Well, you may not know if you're really jealous, though, because a lot of people might think, well, that's completely normal to be abnormally jealous, right, Well, we're here to tell you.

And again this applies to women beating up. Man. If you're getting beat up by your significant other out of jealousy for any reason, really, that's not okay. That's that's wrong. Like no other people who also listen to this podcast think that your relationship is wrong. Everybody out here thinks that what's being done to you is wrong. It's a good way to put it. Uh. They did find that

romantic jealousy is uh. Usually the first fight that a couple will have is over some sort of romantic jealousy, whereas later on in life it's all about money, money, and if you're if you're lucky, it's about money. As long as you're not fighting about trash, who takes who

takes the trash out, you're fine. Really. Yeah, the once you start finding about the little stupid things, that's a big problem, you think, so, and my experience, we should start a relationship show people just like what we think about things. All right, let's get back to the science, shall we. Uh. There is work jealousy, of course, and that is a really ugly thing to have in the workplace.

And that is obviously when people are buying for the same jobs, are looking for the same promotion or the same pay raise or the same whatever, and other people are getting it and or a person gets that raise over you, and it's just it's it's one of the uglier types of jealousy that I've seen. It is And you know, what I think is cute? What's that? And this is how I feel about you? If I'm ever jealous of you. It falls much more into the sibling

rivalry than work jealousy. I thought you're can Sara romantic. I was about say, thank god, thank god. So what more sibling rivals than work? Yeah? Well that's because we're we're peers, and we wish the best on each other. Like occasionally we'll get individual opportunities, not often, but sometimes, like you write for HuffPo, occasionally. I didn't think you

cared about that. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. Well, that's what my point is is that we're real supportive of each other's Like I wrote for Cosmo last week, you wrote for HuffPo. You wrote for Cosmo. I should be jealous because HuffPo Cosmo. No, no, no, you wrote for Cosmo. Yeah. You didn't tell me this, What are you jealous? No? But I'm proud of you. You're supposed to tell I was kind of like, you know, Cosmo,

I wanted to know about stress, and that's awesome. It's like being mad at your boyfriend gives you pimples and stuff. That's awesome. Chuck, not as heady as hufbo. Hey, Well regardless, Chuck, I'm proud of you, so you sent me that link after this, Okay, well when it publishes it well, and pride is a self conscious emotion. Uh. And then Josh, we've talked about this kind of off and on. But abnormal jealously is I think what they called it many things,

psychotic behavior, delusional, morbid. It's also referred to largely as neurotic jealousy neurotic where it's a habitual, possibly unfounded or at the very um detrimental to the relationship. Yeah, and they said it could be uh for a lot of reasons. Um insecurity of course, always back to that immaturity again and being a control freak, which I thought was kind of interesting. It can also be um the result like we said, of having your trust broken, Chuck, or having

feel like the trust was broken even when it hasn't happened. Right. But I think if you've broken someone's trust, you know it, like to a debilitating degree, you know it, right, And there's actually a lot of help out there. Are you people who if you've broken someone's trust and you don't care to find out how to rebuild it, probably just move along. But if you do care, then there's actual like steps to rebuilding trust, and we actually did a

little digging around and found something right. That's right. So UM, we found that I think anybody who says seven steps to rebuilding trust in like ten minutes, it's not going to happen. One of the things that we found in our research was that if you're rebuilding trust broken trust, it's always going to take longer than you think it's going to I would like triple what you think you can't I I think even that would probably fall short.

I think once you start thinking about how long it's going to take, you've lost focus and you need to

refocus on rebuilding trust with the person. So the first thing that you have to do is tell your partner, whether it's your friend, your spouse, your UM, the love of your life, your co host on your podcast, your workmate, whoever you broken trust with UM you you you want them to know that you understand their feelings, that you're wrong them right, and that you're sorry, and that you feel totally cool with the fact that they hate you right now and you're completely responsible. You have to own

that completely, I would think totally. Because some people break trust and they kind of try and put it back on you a little bit, which is a natural human emotion. I think to try and deflect blame, but it's always better if you just keep it yourself. Well, you don't want to heap it like you want. You want to have a conversation, and yeah, you want to accept responsibility for what you did. Some of the things you don't want to do is withdraw, um, attack back like you

were saying, or offer excuses or explanations. You want to do that and apologize, not attack back, but you want to offer an explanation and apologize in reverse order. After you've said, I understand that you're mad, and all of this might not take place in like a ten or fifteen minute conversation. This could take place over months, depending on how badly you've hurt the other person. Right, Um, but yeah, after you have said I know I've hurt you,

and I take responsibility. Um, you want to apologize. You want to explain your point of view. Basically, you want to say, this is why I did this, even if it's as wrong as because I'm a selfish piece jerk. Selfish jerk. Um, that's an explanation, right, It's how the person understand why it happened, which I think is a big part of it. Right, Yeah, I would want I would just recommend stopping short of trying to defend your

actions though, because there's a difference. Right. Right, You're not saying it was right, you're saying why you did it. Those two are separate, or why it's right is layered on the explanation. Right. And you want to make promises, Actually you want to go out of your way to make promises. You you don't want to say I make no promises. This changes our relationship. You can't expect anything from me. You make promises by saying this is you know what you can expect of me in the future,

and it can be Um. One of the examples that was used in this was, um, if you if you lie to your wife so you can go play golf with your buddies on a Saturday morning, which is wow. Um, you want to promise to spend you know, every Saturday for the next two months with your family, or you could just a little maybe, or you could go to your wife to begin with and say, hey, I'm gonna play golf on Saturday, right, or even can I depending on your relationship, but yeah, lying to your wife to

go play golf with your buddies. It's like a Bob Hope short from the fifties or Kevin James sitcom. Have you got anything else on trust there? Um? Well, yeah, you want to make promises. One of the things you want to do is not over exert yourself with promises.

You don't want to make fantastic promises because the worst thing you can do is not follow through on your promises, and you just broken trust again, right, And you also want to make promises that are not just agreeable to the person that you have who's trust you broken, but to yourself as well, because if you're like, well, for the love of God, I'm like, you know, I've lied about playing golf with my buddies and now I have to go get some moon dust because I promised I would.

You're gonna probably resent your partner. So you want to come to a consensus about what's okay. Um, And then, like we said, you want to keep promises, and then you want to kind of discuss how things are going. Um. There's a lot of steps to this, but again the rule of them is, um, apologize or say you understand why their feelings are hurt, and take responsibility apologize, explain, make promises, follow through on the promises, and just keep

an open dialogue. Try to hustle the other person. Yeah, if you're a male right now and you're thinking all those steps come on, that's called being in a relationship, right and it does take a lot of work in a lot of steps, and it does if you're gonna be in a happy one, dude, that's what you gotta do. And you will know when it's worth it. Oh, sure you'll know or when to cut bait, So chuck, I guess that's it. Oh well, no, no, we got I

got a few more things. We never finished on. Abnormal jealousy actually, uh, because there's a switch that happens sometimes between normal jealousy that leads to abnormal and dr Hoopka says it's not always easy to spot and define when that happens, but you should be aware of it if you're in a relationship because it can't get really bad. You know if when they throw acid on you, or hey, someone to throw acid on you. Did that happen? Yeah,

there was a picture in the article. Yeah, really weird. Uh. He says that a few things you can look for though, if for abnormal jealousy is if, like, you go out or something, you're given permission, or you just go out with your friends and your mate is always calling to check in on you. That's something that you should look for. Or if they're going through your telephone book or your like text or your address book, that's probably abnormal jealousy too.

It is. And I have other unnamed people I know it's a friend of mine. Who oh sure, the wife says, you can go out with your friends. Oh, no problem, I'm so cool. It's so cool. And then they get out in the whole entire timet texts in a couple of hours to the point where we just go why you even bother coming out? Man? That's supportive, that's supportive. What should I say? That's awesome? No, but I mean, like, why you even bother coming out? That's kind of I mean,

I don't know. I can't wait to meet your unnamed friends, like you're unnamed friend number two. I don't think they listen to the podcast. They don't know, so I feel pretty comfortable. Uh. And then one more two more things green, Yeah, the ancient Greeks, right, that's what did you recognize that? What do you mean recognize it turning green? Um because of bile. Remember the four humors we talked about happiness

audiobook that's hitt hint. Yeah, uh yeah. They think that came from a build up of bile when you're jealous or envious and would actually turn your skin greeny. Yellow bible will turn your skin green. I think I think it would be green bile. Yeah, there's a but well there isn't. There's yellow bile, black bile, blood, and flagm were the four humors. I like black bile. We're we're both black bile and a little bit of a blood. We're both sanguine and melancholy. And can we talk about

animals real quick? Uh? Animals actually show jealousy, forms of jealousy. They don't know, they don't chuck this if you read this. A sense of fairness does not indicate jealousy. And what's more, the the animals may have envied the other animals treat The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences did a study where they tested dogs to give them treats when

they would shake, you know, as a reward. Yeah, And they saw that if another dog was getting a you know, a treat a piece of food afterwards, the other what wasn't that the dog that wasn't would eventually, after a couple of times, would be like, I'm not shaking right until I get some uh some food. And they tested that in monkeys, and they found that the monkeys got

jealous over the kind of treat, even jealous. The ones that got a cucumber were like, at first, oh, this is great, I get a cucumber for a treat, And then they noticed that their buddy was getting a grape, which tastes a lot better I cast to a monkey. And the monkeys would actually just stop performing because they didn't get a treat as good as the other monkey. You know, it's weird. That came up when we were doing research for our super Stuff Guide to the Economy

audio book. Oh that's right, I knew that sounded yeah, familiar. It was that your key's at the emery down the street. Um. See, the thing is, Chuck is that's a sense of fairness. It's not the same thing as jealousy. And I don't think that the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science has got it wrong. I think MPR did because sometimes MPR and gets things wrong much has it pained me to say it five times per podcast? We get something wrong? So for podcasts for podcast uh, you know, you might

say jealous, Some say elephants get jealous. Elephants can remember. It's hard to tell with animals because you can't ask well. Currently, the prevailing scientific way of looking at it is animals don't have a sense of self enough to have to experience secondary emotions like jealousy or shame or embarrassment. You have to have a conscious sense of self. I think animals do. But science is like, we'll prove it, and we haven't figured out how to prove it yet. So

that's where we're standing. You ready, I see you've got a fine piece of listener mail right there. Yeah. Do you have anything else? Nope. So if you want to learn more about jealousy, trust all that kind of stuff, you can type jealousy or trust into the swing and search bar at how Stuff works dot Com. Since I said that, I think now nowadays it's time for listener man. It is Josh. I'm gonna call this just one of many polygamy emails. We got it blew up, it really did.

We got something from we got one from lou Bega. Did you see you know? We got two emails from lou Bega. And I wrote him back the first time because he said, Hey, guys, I'm not pumping gas. I'm I'm slicing meat at a deli, just so you know. And I wrote him back and said slice at then lou And then he wrote back again and said about the Mormon one of the Polygamy podcast, Yes he was. He was defining. Do you think I'm kind of leaning

toward it, dude. I wrote him back today and said, listen, if this is the real loup Ega of hit song fame, they'n I'm gonna need photographic of it. That's what I was thinking too, But I didn't have time to email him, So I'm glad you didn't want a picture of blue Bega. You'd see see me on these That kind of makes me jealous that I don't see see you on fanmail when it's lou Bega. It depends on who it is. Okay, we'll see seeing me on the rest, but especially if

you send in photo of it. What's funny is he's going to send a picture himself. You're gonna be like, wait, what the hell, little lou Big it look like now I remember, he looks like what if he doesn't wear po door? I wonder in the Delhi if he's like a little bit of turkey, a little bit of pumper nickel. No, some rye, oh dear. So this one, like I said, we heard from a lot of um people from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. A lot of people said, it's really great, you got it right.

A lot of people said he got it all wrong, or they said we didn't distinguish that enough. I disagree. I think we said quite plainly that that most Mormons don't do this, and that this is the fundamentalist Mormon, and like with a capital at fundamentalist Mormons. Well, and a distinction between the Church of Latter day Saints and Mornerism. Right, maybe that's what the distinction wants. Maybe we'll have a whole another bath. This is from Susan. Hey, guys, have

said it before, I'll say it again. You guys are awesome. I just had a few clarifications about the Mormons concerning their practice of polygamy in your recent podcasts. I myself am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and a history buff on this topic because a few of my ancestors were early members who practice polygamy. Polygamy was not a blanket requirement for being a good member of the Church of Jesus Christ of

Latter day Saints. It was only practiced by a small portion of the membership of the church, and was only done so at the discretion of the president of the church. You couldn't just decide to do it yourself unless you wanted to be excommunicated and or seriously disciplined. Uh. Those men who were asked to practice polygamy were mostly leaders of the church, and all parties were willing and gave

their consent to the marriages. You mentioned that after the church stopped practicing give me, they promised to excommunicate any who continue to do so. But even when they advocated the practice, it was selectively practiced among the leaders of the church. I have to say, in this day and age, I would be hard pressed to find a good reason to practice polygamy, at least in the Western world. Back in the pioneer times of wagons and gas lamps, I

could see some benefits. My great great great great grandmother who was a second wife. Uh said that not second wife is in second of two active wives. I think that's what she means that in a lonely, dreary, dangerous part of the wilderness that she and the first wife settled with their children and husband, it was comforting to have a close friend and neighbor who she knew would help them any moment for any reason, and there were no other neighbors around for hundreds of miles back in

the day. As a member of LDS Faith, I appreciate your respect in discussing the issues that are close to my heart and in accurately representing facts that are so often misreported and misconstrued. If you guys decided to do a podcast on the LDS, I would recommend you visit the church's official websites and access material there for clarification of practices and beliefs. So uh, and she said, I'll give you any help you need to, because I got

the nine one one nice before one one nice. That's Susan B. Thanks Susan B. That was very kind of you to take the time to write in and to say we cheated it respectfully. We thought we did as opposed to some people who did not think we did. We tried to totally aside from the Swinger intro anyway, UM, thank you very much for that, Susan, and everybody who wrote in with their opinion one way or the other. That's very cool, Um, and thanks for the bit of

history and research Susan. We always appreciate that if you have a story about your best country hand month, we want to hear about it. Wrap it up in a podcast. No, wrap it up in an email, right? Or I guess you could record a podcast on it and then email that to us. He could do, or a link, uh and send it to Chuck in Jerry and Me at stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff

works dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page. M brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you