Is the Pied Piper About a Real Historic Tragedy?

her job is threatened. Is today the day I die? Oh? Jeesus? Hoping Jerry knows it. Can't we at least get these two in the can first? Yeah, well probably unless something really crazy happens in the next hour and two. Yeah, that'll give me time to get in touch with like the five people I have on my list to replace you. I know, the five Bano right, Obama? Right, Michael Stipe, Michael Stipe, Bobby Fisher. I think there was one more. I can't remember, Bobby Fisher, the chess player. Yeah, that's

a little random. Well, I want to correct that episode and Optimus Prime that's the fifth one, that's right, yea. Uh, Chuckers. Have you ever heard of fairy Tale before? Yeah? We uh we did two very good episodes. Oh, if you say so yourself. No, these were good. I don't often say that, but in November of two thousand fifteen, we did it back to backer with the dark origins of fairy tales and how the Grimm's fairy tales work or the grand Brothers. We had fairy tale fever. We did,

but man, we licked it. So did you go back and listen to them and you're like, wow, these are good or you just remember them being good. I remember them being good, okay, and being especially kind of proud of those too. Really, that's fantastic. That's how I feel about your limb is torn off? Now? What? That was a good one good title about reattachment surgery. Remember that? Yeah? I think that that titles all you. That's a Josh Clark title. You've got some good titles out there too.

What's the deal with blank? You know who's really good at coming up with titles? Bono? Yeah, where the streets have no name? Right? Where the where the streets have no drums? M dude, you just did it. So we're talking about fairy tales today, specifically, specifically, we're talking about the fairy tale of the Pie Piper of Hamlin, And as far as fairy tales go, it seems to be

a little different than other fairy tales. And the reason why it's a little different is because, horrifically it's people think scholars, not just you know, average truck like, real deal scholars think that something actually happened that formed the basis of this fairy tale. Right Whereas with Hansel and Gretel it wasn't based on some witchy lady who ate children, No, but that one might have had some basis in fact too. How about like rumpel Stiltskin, probably not based in fact? Right?

You remember the little guy who, like you, trick him into saying his own name back? The little I don't think he had a big heart. He had an insatiable sexual appetite, is what it was. Oh, the little girls. The big heart was Bono, right man. We're gonna get so many emails from people being like, layoff Bono. What's what's with the bono references? Who's Bono? They must work with that Bono guy? I wish so chuck Um the

pie Piper. The reason why we say it might be based in fact is because there's actual, like historic evidence that kind of supports this thing, and you can find it in this town of Hamlin, which is a real place. It's not a made up like fairy tale land. Like you knows your first clue. Yeah, most fair detales are not set in an actual place, right, I don't know,

are they know? They're just made up, or they're in a very vague place, or they take place in a larger place like oh, in Germany one day, or in Bavaria one day, not like in this town that actually existed at the time we're saying it did. Which is another thing too, because if you look at the actual fairy tales we'll get to in a second, there's like a specific date that also is very unusual for their tale. So the more you dig into it, the more you're like, yeah,

this might have actually happened. And then what you think, oh, this might have actually happened, then you're struck with some of the greatest dread human being can experience, because it's something bad happened, is what happened? Let's talk about it, all right, Well, let's get into the original fairy tale, The Grimm's Brothers Tale of the Pipe Piper. Not even

Irish um. Jane McGrath, good old Jane from back in the day wrote this one, and she points out that it is a tale, a cautionary tale about governance as well as taking responsibility for financial agreements. She's right, but it putting it that way, it seems a little funny. But it is twelve eighty four in Hamlin in Germany, and there was a rat infestation in the town at the time, and the mayor and this is the fairy tale, you're gonna right, yeah, yeah, And so that the mayor

of the town didn't know what to do. The burgermeister, Oh yeah, maister Burger. Uh, the stranger comes into town and war and I didn't know what pid even meant. I didn't either. What is it? Multi colored? Yeah, he wore multi colored clothes, pied multi colored clothes. That's all he was. He was a piper who wore colorful clothing. Had nothing to do with eating pies or I thought walk king on his feet, you know, he thought that's

what it meant. Yeah, why because I think like a like pedestrian comes from pied p well, but I think it's like maybe Italian or something that certainly makes more sense than me having no clue. Yeah, but I was way off, so it doesn't matter. He walked. He did walk. That was the other reason I thought that too. So his outfit looked a little weird. Apparently multicolored people didn't

dress like that. I reckon. I saw though that it was also like um, like a splendid outfit that he attracted a lot of attention, and people were like, I wish I could, I wish I had the Cohonans dressed like you pie piper dance around with a band. Uh. And he had a called it a musical pipe or some kind of flute, not a smoking pipe. Heads no uh. And he hears about this rat problem. He comes into town. He drags his fingernails along the chalkboard and gets everyone attention,

and the down meeting says, I'll kill that shark. Oh, you gotta do it, but no, no, no, I'll kill the rats. Yeah, but in the voice, I can't do quint well, whatever, you can do anything. You're like the rich little of this this company. Jerry's laughing at us for no reason. She's so sick of this man, she's really tickled today, Jerry, are you stoned? No, she's been smoking her own magical pipe. So they agree on a price to get rid of the rats. Piper takes out

his his little his little hand flute. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if that's what's called. But the price is important. Can I go into the price for a second. So he initially said that he would get rid of the rats for a thousand florins, which is either coins or money from Italy or France or the Netherlands, but money a thousand a lot of the time, thousand pieces of money. And this this town of Hamlin was so overrun by rats. Apparently all their cats had died. Though yes they got

they beat the cats. I didn't see explained what happened to the cats, just that the cats died, and that's why the town is over rung. Okay, which is a weird little thing, don't you think. Yeah, because my first thing was like, why a pie piper just get some cats? The cats had all died, all right, good thinking, chuck um. But they they say a thousand florins will give you fifty thousand florins if you get rid of these rats. Our problem is so bad, and he says done. But

was that a facetious offer? I think it was a desperate a desperate boast. Okay, But the pipe piper was like, all right, I'll agree to your terms. I just wanted a thousand, but fifty thousand it is, and they went I think we ever spent. I regret saying that. You should hear the guy. So he pulls out the instrument

he um starts playing. As the story goes, all the rats congregate around him, and he leaps about and dances through town into the Weser River, which the rats drowned, which is complete um fabrication, because rats are very good swimmers. They really are. I thought about that too. I even looked it up. They're good swimmers, not just rats you've seen it's rats in general. Yeah. I mean the first thing, honestly, when I heard that, the first thing that made me

think that was like, wait a minute, first blood. He's in that abandoned mind chat. Those rats are swimming all over the place. So I looked it up. I was like, is that true? And apparently rats are really good swimmers, better than others. It's in there too, So this fairy tale stinks of bs already, okay, But the the story goes that the rats followed this guy in a trance

to the river, whereupon they drowned. Maybe they were in the trance and that was why they couldn't swim, because they were just so lulled by his his hand flute, his smooth jazz. Should you take a break there and finish the story after, Oh, it's quite a cliff banger. All right, let's do that, all right, Chuck, We're back to lay it on them. Man, that was that was high class. Well, they drown all the rats. The pie

piper is successful. Everyone parties German style, which is to say they probably got hammered on eight eight ounce beers. Have you ever been to Germany? You ever had the beers there? The big Yeah? I mean they've got big old beers there for sure. And they have lids on their their mugs too, because you know, there's so much of it you can just set it down, save it for later. But I don't think they save it for later. The beer garden I went too did not have the lids.

Maybe I've just seen in those on TV. But what they did have was a four and a half foot tall woman with popeye sized four arms, carrying six of those giants, like like a pro, not like a bro. They were pros well too. It's probably sold to the beer garden at a young age and was raised. Please tell me that's not the case. Um alright, so, uh where are we? Townspeople are partying? They're they're getting hammered, they're singing, they're they're they're prosting, singing your German beer

hall uh songs as they are one to do. And then dude says, uh, what's up with that? All those florins? Yeah, he's like, everybody, I'm really glad you enjoyed my work, but now it's time for me to go pay me. And did they just stiff them or did they say, well, let's go back to the thousand. Uh, they said, we're not giving you fifty thousand florins. What you We thought you were going to get rid of these rets through

hard work. You just played some flute, Like that's cool that you can do that with the flute, but that's not really work. So no, we're not gonna pay you fifty thousand florence. He's like, well, in a thousand florins at least that's what I originally agreed to. And they're like, how about this. We're gonna give you fifty and if you're not happy with that, then you're getting nothing. And he was still so mad that they're like, fine, nothing, get out of town. And he says, you will regret

you know what that's like. That's like highering the critter remover because you have a raccoon in your attic. You agree to a price. He comes over and shoots the raccoon and says game over, and you're like, wait a minute. I expected a little more like uh, like you were going to hypnotize him or or coax him down from the roof with your smooth jazz. Right, not just shoot it. Anybody could shoot it. I thought you're gonna like step on it or something. Yeah, Like I would have shot it.

Looking for a peaceful, less solution right in place, I have a bullet hole in my house. Now have you ever had to call one of those people a raccoon remover? Well, I'll just you know those dudes, just like you know, I'll do snakes and raccoons or whatever. I haven't either, but a lot of my friends do that. I'm over one. I think I mentioned with cockroaches right now, and it's just it's getting bad still, Yeah, dude, because I don't know what to do. Hire an exterminator. Yeah, but we're

not into the poison stuff. But I think it's like, we gotta do it. I think there's green exterminators that are not quite as deadly. Jerry's nodding, But will they kill all the cockroaches? Probably? Probably? You probably with their magic flute, and I need to do something. It's gotten out of hand. Yeah, you got to do something, like I almost I'm gonna tell you what happens, but I feel like people judge me on how disgusting it is.

We can always edit it out later, all right. I'll go in and and this is not like it's not like food is out. I will clean the kitchen. I will go in there to get a glass of water. At midnight, I'll turn the light on and a dozen will scatter. Jerry's geting, Nope, like I will just I will hear them going, sure, Yeah, that's one of the creepiest things. And they you know, as soon as they see that light, they're gone. And it sounds like we live in filth. But it doesn't matter. We're infested. They're

just like, I don't know what to do. Yeah, well, um, I think you may want to call an exterminator, but fine, one you live into cator. I'm sure you'd be hard pestifind an exterminator that did use deadly You throw a rock indicator and you'll hit a dust So I yes, I think it might be time. All right, Sorry about getting sidetracks so much. They offer him, what fifty fifty not even not fifty thou or a thousand fifty? And so what does he say? He says, but he did

that little everybody. You can't see me, but you know where you flick the underside of your chain, that feel like that's Italian? Well, I mean this is Germany, it's Lower Saxony. It wasn't too far from Germany. But is that Italian? I was just wondering. Yeah, it feels like a very like Italian thing to do. Yeah, okay, right exactly. You gotta say it like that, all right. So he gives him that number and says I'm gonna come back.

Does he even warn them and say I'm gonna come back and get your kids or I'm just gonna it depends on it's all good, you'll see me again. It depends on the story. Some say, yeah, he vowed vengeance. Some say he came back a month later. Some say he came back a year later. Some say he just immediately started playing his flute. Some say, and I think the brothers grim version is that he waited until the town went to sleep, and then came through the town

and started playing again. All right, but this time he's wearing Hunter's clothing. Did not see that anywhere? Oh? Really does that? Bs? Well? I don't think it's b S. I think this story has just been added to so many times over there. But yeah, I shouldn't have ever been to anything. All right, So he comes back regardless of what he's wearing. Let's say he's buck naked, which makes it even more fun. Well, you just added to the legend just there. He starts playing this flute again,

but this time the children are entranced. He leads like a hundred and thirty kids supposedly, Yeah, paying attention to a number. It seems a little specific, doesn't it does. He leads a hundred and thirty children out of town up a mountain to a cave. They supposedly enter and are never heard from again, right, And the mountain has a landslide and covers up the cave mouth, and supposedly it was a magical door that opened in the mountain

that revealed the key. They go in, doors closed, landslide gone, never heard from again, like you said, And the townspeople are like, there goes our labor pool, there goes my baby, there goes their labor pool. Who's going to service at the beer gardens? And supposedly there in one version, at least um there was the mayor's grown daughter was among that group, and this feels like a specific jab at the mayor, like even though your daughter's grown, I'm gonna

and transfer with my flute as well. Yeah, well I don't think that was in the original Grand Brothers one either, But but two children survived correct or they come back, I think. And the Grimm Brothers version is just one. Sometimes it's up to three. But there there's in a lot of retellings, there's a kid who either Um is deaf and so can't hear the magic flute song, so

it's not entranced. Um has some sort of physical disability, and so he or she can't keep up with the rest of the kids and survives from that um or I think it's blind and can't see their way. Either way, some kid who had some unique characteristic that kept them from being um entranced or whatever. Uh is like the eyewitness that comes back and tells the parents what happened, or in another version, is just a skeptic child skeptic. This can't be happening. Louis the child's skipt um. That's funny.

So all right, so let's get into this. It may not to be fictions, as it turns out, because a lot of historians and scholars have looked into this. You talked about the specificity being a little weird. One thing we do know is that at one point there was a stained glass window in the in the town church um that depicted and this was what around thirteen hundreds is after it would have happened, but I mean sixteen years in memory, living memory, it was when they first

erected that window, which kind of makes sense as a memorial. Uh. And on that window it said on the day of John Paul, I'm sorry John and Paul. One thirty children in Hamlin went to Calvary were brought through all kinds of danger to the copin mountain and lost. Yeah. So the Calvary thing that I thought was another word for Heaven, isn't it. I'm gone, I'm going to Calvary in that was like in that like the hill where was crucified. If I know this, surely you know used to know this.

I know it looms large and and Christianity, but I can't remember exactly. I think it's like shorthand for I'm going to meet my maker. I saw elsewhere that they referred to the mountain as cavalry. Yeah. They also referred to the area that the children went to Calvary as the execution place. I never saw any explanation of that. And then the copp And Mountain. I don't understand why that would be also named Calvary, and they would mention at the same place twice with two different names. So

it's a bit of a mystery. But the point is, about fifteen sixteen years after this event supposedly happened, or the fairy tale takes place, the town of Hamlin, Germany in um Lower Saxony or West Falley, I think is what it's called now, put put up of stained glass window commemorating this and the window did not survive, but apparently there are accounts of that window, yeah, like in

more than one place. Yeah, and it was I mean you can understand that it would be because it was in the town church for hundreds of years before it was destroyed. No one knows how it was destroyed, but there is documentation that this window existed. Obviously, no living historians saw it with their own eyes, but there's enough, um documentary evidence that it seems to be. Yes, there was a window that was erected in That is a very weird thing to do to just make up right,

very weird, um, especially in the church. Yeah, you don't why you go to hell for that? So that was that was the first documentary evidence, right. The next one I saw comes a hundred years later in four and um it's in the Hamlin Town Chronicle for that year, and all it says is it is one hundred years since our children left. Yeah. Kind of weird. And what is that just a blurb? I guess so you'd think a hundred year commemoration they might add a little more

than that. Yeah, and what is this the Luneberg Manu's script This was about a hundred years after the window. And this was a monk who wrote it, Heinrich of Hereford, and he says, he writes an account and says a man about thirty years old came to town playing a flute and lead the children out. Yeah, pretty simple. Yeah, but what's noteworthy about that one. There's a couple of things. Um, So the the piper doesn't show up in the first in the window, right, but he does show up in

the Lumberg manuscript. He mentions the piper. But no rats in any of these, right, not yet. But the other thing about the Lumberg manuscript is that it Looomberg is a nearby town. So there are other towns that are talking about this event that happened in their own chronicles. Right, it was one of the reasons why. But it supports the idea that it's real, because if it's just this one town that's deluded, even if other towns are talking about it, they'll probably be by the way, they're all nuts.

But other towns chronicles seemed to be verifying that this happened or recounting this story in like a credulous way. So something happened in twelve eighty four, and the evidence is starting to mount. Um. But the other thing about the fact that this is another town is that this town Loomburg and other towns. Um cited that Hambling came to be known to commemorate things counting backward or forward from the date of twelve eighty four. So, for example, they put up a gate in fifteen fifty six in

the town. This is what they inscribed on the gate, chuck uh In this year of fifteen fifty six, two hundred and seventy two years after the magician led a hundred and thirty children out of the town, this portal was erected. That's like saying, like this, we're putting up the sewer two hundred and sixty two years after our children were led out of town by a magician. Enjoy the sewer. Like, that's a weird thing to inscribe in something. And apparently the town became known for that kind of thing.

What just these random inscriptions about this weird, like mysterious event. Yeah, just like dating everything from twelve eighty four on based on their their children leaving. And again you'll notice it mentions a hundred and thirty children. Things changed over the retelling. But the one thing that's remained the same is the hundred and thirty children leaving. Even before the piper shows up in the story, a hundred and thirty children are cited each and every time. Yeah, but in what we

don't know is that, like some symbolic things, that all metaphor. Um. Should we take a break and get to the theories, all right, let's do that, all right. The theories are varied, Um. One of the common ones makes that makes a lot of sense is that there was some disease that killed all these kids, and then this story is some sort of metaphor for what happened to their children. And the fact that rats come into play at some point have

led people to speculate that it might be the bubonic plague. Yeah, there's a guy named um, Count Froben Christoph von Zimmer. Can you say it like that? Frob Now? I don't know, but I know that that guy will steal your soul in the middle of the night if you're not careful. Yeah, so, Count Froben Christoph von Zimmer. You can only say all of his names, You can't her. He wrote a chronicle in five from another nearby town and he was the

one who seems to event produced the rats. And so at that point the piper goes from just a weirdo magician to ratt and fonger, Yeah, rat catcher, Yeah, which was a job, it was, And I mean like like this town would have had rats, Any town would have had rats, So it would have been, like, it's understandable like that the rats would come into it, and it's not like that's just, you know, a totally outlandish addition

to the story. But the fact that it doesn't show up until fifteen sixty five, and this has been documented for hundreds of years up to that point, seems a little fishy. And it certainly seems weird that it would have been the plague because the play couldn't come around yet, right right, And it also seems fishy that it doesn't mention anything about adults and any sort of rat carrying or diseased rat would it seems like it wouldn't just affect kids. No, it doesn't make any sense, No, it doesn't.

But the idea that a hundred and thirty kids were taken from the town in one four or fashion, you could say, well, it's like some sort of disease. One of the other diseases that got um put up was Parkinson's I believe or no, Huntington's I'm sorry, which is a stupid theory. It's a terrible theory. Huntington's disease is an inherited disease, so that would mean that every kid in the town had inherited Huntington's from their parents, who

apparently weren't showing any symptoms. I don't know, I couldn't find it, but it's a terrible one. And then the idea that so it's not infectious, it's rare, and everybody's symptoms coming on at the same time in dying. The reason why they said that, though, was because supposedly um the shakes from it, the palsy, would account for the dancing of the children. It seems like a pretty dumb thing to zero in stretch Huntington disease were crossing off

the list all right. One of my favorites is that the children left on their own as part of one of the crusades. And apparently the one thing that doesn't quite align is the timeline, because a few decades previous there were in fact young people children probably teenagers, doctor were like eight year old participating in the crusades, one of them would have a vision from God and say, you know, we should totally cover the crusades. I don't

think we have we done that? No, not yet. There's a really good article on the site too, would be it's a pretty dense single. Yeah, we might do too. Two part are on the crusades coming. Uh, So you would you know, one of those kids would have a vision from God and then all the kids would follow and say, all right, when we take our broadswords that we can barely lift and go fight the good fight. Right. So that's one theory, and that's actually a pretty uh

it's that that's a little more rooted in reality. Like, yes, there were children's crusade before documented. It's possible it happened a decade or two later. Like if if it was in the area and well known, some other kid could have been like, okay, let me try my hand at it, changes his name to Jim Jones and says follow me to Jerusalem. Right, So that that one could have happened. It's possible. Um the other one, and this is supposedly

the most widely held theory. Chuck was that this is all part of the oh sedlung o S. This is a tongue twister O S T s I E D l u n G, which is basically an exodus or an eastward expansion from Germany to Transylvania, Romania area which was being newly settled by um Western Europeans after conquering,

like the whole Dracula era. So the idea is an adult came and said, hey, kids, why don't you come with me and we'll we'll go like populate eastern Europe pretty much right right, so um, and there is evidence that this this did like this definitely happened, right, there was a migration eastward. Um. And the big thing about this one is that they were misinterpreting the word kids or children that it could have been the town's children.

But it's like their their children, they weren't kids. They were you know, young adults who were who would have represented like, you know, a lot of the workforce. So that would have been a big deal had they left. So that's a that's I think the most widely held one right now. Well, one of the traditions you're hanging onto is uh and I kind of teased it with that dumb bano jerk jerk, poor Bono, he's like that

bono joke earlier is uh today still Um. The street where this supposedly all happened, um is called the bungalowsan Sasa street with no drum, street without drums, And to this day they won't allow people to play music or dance on that street. Right, the rest of the town and including that street, but really the rest of the town is the whole town is dedicated to this legend. Um. I thought you dedicated to music and dancing. Well, I'm

except for the street they do. There is a musical called Rats that's put on in the town seriously, um. And there's there's like a pie piper statue and recreations every Sunday in the summer. Oh yeah, it's huge tourist town for this. Um. There's like a I think a Rats blug cocktails that they serve. I saw. It's like a mental falss article. I mentioned that. But Um, the town is dedicated to this. But there's there's the fact that they're still talking about it is not just legend,

it's um. It's like they're they're still telling that story to an extent, you know what I mean, keeping it alive, not just for tourist dollars because it looms large because this is their ancestry. Well, they definitely, Um. There are some more um theories that haven't gained as much traction, Like there was a pedophile that came. Um, these children were just maybe just simply sent away because they're very poor. Because that happened. That's my theory that that was just

sort of the regular thing that would happen. Is we're also poor, you go away and live a better life somewhere. Yeah, And that's where Hansel and Gretel is kind of rooted in reality, the idea of child abandonment. Remember we talked about that. I believe in the in one of the fairy Tale episodes from before that like if you fell on hard times, just taking your kid out to the woods and being like, best of luck. It was a

viable thing to do during the Middle Ages. And it's possible that this town, basically said it would be like a combination of the guy coming from Romania and saying follow me, and the parents being like, maybe you should go with him, And then that would explain why the whole thing is written in like such vague, flowery language. To me, that indicates that they're they're working out guilt.

There's guilt by this town vague. They're not direct. Other towns are talking about this legend in much more explicit terms, But in the town of Hamlin, it's all very like like flowery and and poetic and vague, And it makes me think they're they're covering something up that they have to get off their chest, but they're still they can't bring themselves to actually say what it was. Well, that sort of jibes then with um, this dude, he's a

children's poet named Michael Rosen. He sent that one article. He actually went to Hamlin and hooked up with a guy named Michael Boyer from the tourism office there, and Boyer says that he thinks the rats were added and this this makes sense with your theory. Was that just sort of an attempt to wash away what he said, we're bad memories, like a ever up to draw attention

away from this awful thing. They're like, hey, let's tell this rat story, right, But if you'll notice also in that story with the rats there there is guilt by the town. The town is guilty of something and they lose their children as a result. So if the rats were actually part of the original story, even if it wasn't documented, even if there weren't real rats, it still is putting some veneer of guilt onto the town. It wasn't something that just happened to them. This thing befell

them because they did something wrong. I don't I feel like there could be a deeper mystery though, Yeah, I think there is. Like, for real, I think there's something really happened in Hamlin in twelve eighty four and they lost a hundred and thirty kids somehow, and the town it was psychically damaged by it. Are you going to title this one pie Piper colon cold case? That's a good one. Actually not? Okay, you got anything else? No? Now I want to know more. I know I got

sucked into this. I can't remember which of the articles I sent it got me, but I don't remember how I came across it, but it was it was like, oh, I've never thought of this, And it's not like you can do this with every um fairy tale. Right there's you know, there's there's probably no rapondola and probably no rumple Stiltskin, Hansel and Gretel's just so vague. Probably happened to multiple children, but this one, this happened in Hamlin

in twelve eighty four. Something happened. We may never know what it was, but it's pretty interesting. My mind goes really dark and thinks, like, what if there was just a mass murder? Well, one more thing, one more thing.

I'm glad you brought that up. So the execution place that the Coppin Mountain or Cavalry Mountain or whatever it was, supposedly that was where they buried people too, So they were saying that could be code for a mass grave where they would have buried people, which would suggest a

mass death that happened in a short period of time. Man, can you imagine if there was a discovery made of children's bones in a mountains somewhere north of Hamlin to be neat nor because it's mountains, I just think that means they're north. So one more you keep bringing up this awesome stuff, dude, you ready, I'm ready. They recently discovered I think they discovered it a while back, but they recently publicized that the discovery of a and believe

it was. It was definitely in Peru. It wasn't Incan. It was one of the Incan's rivals, the Inca rivals Um. But it was a mass sacrifice of hundreds of kids that all happened on one day, one after the other. It was and like they found this and you're reading it, and you're like, this probably has never happened in the history of the world anything like this, Nothing like this. I mean this they were probably child side or they were definitely child sacrifices, but they would do it like

once in a while or something. But imagine a town gone that berserk that they just let their kids, Like hundreds of kids just killed in a day in one area. It was. It's really rough, man, it's but reading about it, it's I mean, it's just too you can't help but pull yourself back into that day and just see it and want to be like, stop, what are you doing? You've lost your mind? You know. And if it happened once,

it could happen again. I guess you know, maybe the parents were all uh, maybe they all drank bad beer one day. Yeah, it made him temporarily insane. That'd be really bad. It sounds like a a Blumhouse movie to Come. What is that? It's just that production company that makes a lot of the horror movies. Now what like what I think they did get out among many others? Good? Okay,

you've got anything else? Now I got nothing else, Jerry, No, okay. Well, if you want to know more about the pie Piper and all that stuff, you can type that word in the search bar how stuff works dot com. And since I said that, it's time the listener mail. I'm gonna call this a double Keen Signeta reply because you heard from a couple of people with some good insight. First, Alexandra, longtime listener from San Juan, Puerto Rico, loved episode on

Kensaneta's It's usual. You did a great job approaching a cultural tradition but it's not your own, while providing a balanced information, well rounded and textualization of the celebration and its influence. She's like in parnhses it was the opposite of the episode. Oh man, we've gotten beat up about that. For my own Keen Signetta, my mother gave me the option of the traditional coming of age party or a trip.

What do you think she chose? I'm guessing a trip yeah, I chose to travel and spent a month in Germany this summer I turned fifteen. Looking back, it's amazing that she trusted me enough at such a young age travel on my own, although I did stay with family. She's like, it's the greatest regret of my young life. I wish I would have partied. Uh. I just wanted to clarify a few things you brought up. Um, l A T I n X is pronounced, she says, Latin X. Uh.

It refers to those from Latin America or Latin American descent. Hispanic refers to Spanish speaking persons. Oh and your pronunciation of kintanana was great, as the r a is a soft our sound. Um, no need to read this on the podcast, sorry, Alexandra. Uh. And then this other follow up I want this guy says, this is tiban Plinsky. I recognize that name. I think he's on Twitter or something.

Oh really, yeah, great name. He's local, is she said? Disclaimer, I'm a white person from Georgia, so I have no authority here at all, but we'll be referring to the opinions of actual Latino Latina Latin X people I know or have read the writings of I personally only heard that word pronounced with confidence in the following two ways, latin X and latin X. However, some people say latin X or latins Latino X sounds right because it's Latino Latina latin X, Yeah, that makes sense, or LATINX rhymes

with sphinx Um. I don't think that's right, or something else entirely, as evidenced by this Twitter poll and he shared the Twitter poll, which was from a media brand for Latino millennials. Interestingly, there appears to be backlash against the term by some who view it as an attempt intentional or not to anglicize Spanish. They say this is part of a larger movement to paint Hispanic, Latino, Latina

latin X people as sexist and ignorant. Mexican American person who introduced me to the term was still sorting out their feelings about the whole situation. Uh so that's where we step steps into uh taibon plinsky. Uh. If you want to get in touch of this, like Tie and Alexandra did, you can tweet to us. I'm josh Um Clark and at s Y s K podcast and Chuck's at movie Crush. You can join Chuck on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and slash

Stuff you Should Know. You can send us all an email. The Stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com