Hypnosis: You're Getting Sleepy

it's classic. It's not red nick I've always heard it from redne All read Nicky's classic. So wait, what accent was that? It's like Internet Italio serbian. You're getting more and more refined, buddy. Um, Chuck, did you see the Stopwatch I have do? I went to to stare at a Chuck Am. You're getting very drowsy, Chuck Am. You're laying in a field surrounded by little rabbits. I love rabbits. Y's the rabbits love you too, Chuck. Chuck. Yes, keep your eyes open for me, Yes, yes, Chuck, I want

you to bark like a dog. When I snapped my fingers, ready, Wolf, very good, Chuck, that was excellent. No, Chuck, I'm gonna bring us out of this this horribly uncomfortable segment. When I snapped my fingers, I'm gonna count to three. And when I snapped my fingers, You're not gonna remember any of this, just me and the people listening to this. Well now, okay, okay, one, two, three. Oh hey, Chuck, I'm not sure what happened, but I feel lame. You

feel you should feel lame. You have every reason of Philiams, so do I, Chuck Embarrassed, I suddenly realized I just bestowed upon you like a really great gift that you can't remember what just happened. That was like the worst intro we ever did it. It is so just thank you lucky stars. Chuck. That is a great intro. Josh. Because we're talking about hypnosis, well, yeah, it would have been a little weird for Australian frogs, right, that'd be weird.

So I'll go ahead and kick start this, my friend by saying that hypnosis has been around for a couple hundred years and because it has to do with the brain in the mind, we still don't know a ton about how it actually works. I'd like to kick start this one by saying that hypnosis is complete. I don't agree because I have been hypnotized and we will get to that later. Really, yeah, have you really? Yeah? Sort of. Well, we'll talk about it. I'll walk you through my experience later.

That would be great. You've been hypnotized twice. Now you realize that you don't remember it. But I don't know what you're talking about. I know you don't, but you've been hypnotized twice. So technically speaking, buddy, a trance like state is what hypnosis is. And um, it's characterized by relaxation, heightened imagination, and extreme suggestibility. And they compare it to daydreaming.

You're actually hyperintentive. You're not asleep, you're hyperintentive. And uh, they like in it sometimes so when you get lost, like in a movie, and nothing exists outside the movie and you are moating with the movie and you kind of believe what's going on is real. And not only was it compared to in this article by poor Tom Harris um to watching a movie, uh, it was also compared to driving, reading, and mowing the lawn. Was it. Oh,

you didn't see that. This is awesome illustration that shows you all the things that you can kind of self hypnotize with, and one of them is apparently writing a lawn tractor. Well. Milton Ericsson is a expert in the twentieth century of with hypnotism. He says that this happens on a daily basis to everybody. Yeah, and I know what he's talking about. Like, Um, I've definitely driven unimpaired

before and been like how did I get here? I've done that too, man, And you realize you're so focused on a thought or a problem or it's just something you're trying to work out, that your body's just taken over. And you can do it in a stick shift too,

it's not just with automatics. Yeah. You know what usually triggers my realization that that's happened as I realized some awful, awful song has been playing that I would never listen to, like one second of like like Bad of the Bone is on and it's like the bud you mean George third good and the Tea Birds that now the t Birds it's different. George Thirders, you didn't like Thur're good? He used to go to the Hollywood Wide by the way, the same we're on the same workout schedule for a

little while. Awesome. He like his old bones on the treadmill. He looks like he's about to die, So I'm sure he was. I hated Bad to the Bone, and I maintain that. Okay, So if you are listening to Bad to the Bone and you realize that it's like the end of the song it's been on the whole time, that's clear evidence that you've self hypnotized exactly. And there's also a school of thought that all hypnosis is self hypnosis.

We'll get to those explanations later. That definitely makes a little bit of say to me, mesmerized even do you want to talk about Mr Mesmer? Yeah, mess that The name actually comes from a guy named Franz France Mesma, and he was an Austrian physician in the seventeen hundreds, and he was one of the early proponents of hypnotism.

He thought it was a mystical force though, and it um was early early on, it was a known as mesmerism, right, and then that just eventually became like mesmerizing, right, And and Mesmer's whole bit was that it was animal magnetism flowing from the hypnotist like sleep, right, that guy coming out of his fingers, in his eyes like into the subject, and the hypnosis was the hypnotist exerting his will on the hypnotized person um, and that was largely abandoned in

the nineteenth century I think was Yeah, a Scottish surgeon named James Braid coined the term hypnosis, and it came to be seen as a stage that the person went into guided by a hypnotist, right, gotcha, Well, that's definitely what happens um when you're under hypnosis. It's always that you talk about the suggestibility. You you think that that's reality.

So the example they gave in the the article, which I thought was appropriate for us, is if they say, like, your tongue is swollen, you believe that, and so you might start talking like you do with a thick tongue.

That's nice. Or if they say you're drinking like a cold soda, you might like feel the bubbles or the cooling effect on your throat even right, uh and Chuck, I think it's not that you think it's real, it's that you are in much the same way it was like into watching a movie or a TV show, Like, do you ever watch a TV show and you like it cuts the commercial and all of a sudden you realize, like you're really anxious, like you're about you're in trouble

for something, and you don't understand why, and you realize it's because you've attached to what's going on in the show so much that you're kind of empathizing with the characters. I think it's like that, like the idea that a dramatic play going on inside a little box can evoke emotions in you. That's what hypnosis say. Is this you don't think it's reality because you're not thinking, yeah, you're well, well we'll get into the brain of it. Then I guess this is probably a good time to do it,

right the subconscious mind? Well, yeah, that this is this is really where I started to zone out, and really I was like, how did I lose the last hour? The school of thought, for the most part is that hypnotism is a way to get into your subconscious mind.

You say hypnotism, hypnotism hypnotism, uh taps into your subconscious and if your conscious thoughts are the things that you have to consciously think of in a day, your subconscious is still like hard at work doing all the things Like you don't think I'm going to get in my car and pick up my key to insert it in you just you know your subconscious knows how to do all that, right. Um. Harris used the example of like losing your keys, right, you're sitting there in your conscious mind.

I guess in this respect, and I have to put this claim around I don't I think conscious and subconscious concepts will be around for much longer. But I don't think so. Um. But from the from the viewpoint of psychology, your conscious mind is what's what realizes that you are missing your car keys, and all the ramifications of not being able to find your car keys, like you're gonna be late to work and this is gonna be a problem,

and where did you leave it last? And all that, and your subconscious mind are all of the different mechanisms there. It's governing all the different mechanisms, bringing them together so that you can have these thoughts, worries and access memories, most importantly, so that you can remember the last place you put them. So what seems to you like a sudden flash of insight like there's the car keys, that that was a series of mechinations by the subconscious mind

that brought you to your conscious mind to that point. Well, that's very pertinent here because psychiatrists think that the deep relaxation and the relaxed state relaxed, that the relaxed state that you get into it is um allows the psychiatrist or the hypnotists to tap into that subconscious because of the state that you're in, tap that subconscious, tap it.

There may be a little bit too that too, right, there could be, but um, we should probably say, chuck before we get into that that um, what the subconscious mind is responsible for some of the big things, and that that this is what right right, you've got the

sensation uh, bodily sensations, memories right, um. And with memories, especially if you're getting in there and you're you're going directly to the source where these things are stored, retrieved and experienced, right, then you have a lot of responsibility if this is actually real, um, by to to not manipulate these the person in the state absolutely because apparently

you're dealing directly with the subconscious. So with the talking about repressed memories, specifically, it's easy to create false memories inadvertently, so you definitely have to be really careful. But yes, you are right that there is some um evidence. There's some scientific evidence that there's something going on here when

people are in a hypnotic state. Right. Well, yeah, the conscious mind is the inhibitive component of your body, so it's it's the one that's like putting on the brakes for things, and the subconscious is the more impulsive and imaginative one. So it makes sense that you see those stupid hypnosis shows live on stage where adults are like barking like dogs and walking around like chickens and stuff, they're still there. I was in Vegas a couple of

weeks billboards. People love that stuff that, Um, I'm just not one of them. But that does sort of make sense that if they're tapping into into the subconscious and leaving the conscious mind out of it, then that's why they're uninhibited and feel free to do all those stupid things. Right, So there's something to that in theory just by looking

at it, right, and there there is, um. I guess people have slapped people into e G. Machines, given them electro and cephalography scans, yeah, to see what's actually going on the brain, right, and there is something like there's no there's no change bodily aside from and Tom Harris did a good job making this point. People are relaxed, right, but that's actually from the suggested relaxation that's not from

the state of hypnosis itself. So like your heart rate might slow down and stuff, but it's not because you're hypnotized. It's just because your chill. Um. But with the with the brain scancer, I can't remember what we were talking about sleepwalking. I think you're talking about brain waves right, Um, yeah, we were. And the low frequency waves associated with deep sleep tend to show up more when you're in a hypnotized state, and the higher frequency waves associated with being

fully awake and alert um slow down something. They don't disappear, one doesn't take over and the other one goes away like when you're actually in deep sleep. But there the they're skewed differently than a normal person would have while they're awake, and so they're there. Tom also points out to that that's not like proof of anything, but it

is a nod to like, well, this is actually going on. Um. The same with the study, the cerebral cortex and hypnotics showed or hypnotics subject showed reduced activity in the left hemisphere and increased in the right. And the left hemisphere is where the logical control center is and the right is where like the imagination and creativity is. So that kind of supports the idea as well. But again not like hardproof, Chuck, how do you? Um, that's my problem

with us. There's no hard proof whatsoever. Um. How how do you as far as against psychology psychiatry goes, and this is in widespread use or vegas, how do you hypnotize somebody? Well, there's some different ways, right do you can do it? There's the old school way where you like wave the watch in front of someone that you've seen in the movie. Yes, that's called field gaze induction or eye fixation, fixed case, fixed case. What I say field gaze? That makes no sense. It hypnotized you to

say that wolf? What was that? Nothing? Uh? So that's um idea there is that they're just getting you to focus on something and tune everything out and then they lull you to sleep with their tone. And that's sort of the old school way, and they don't do it much anymore because apparently it doesn't work that well, Yes, because people are too smart. And what's the other one? Uh, there's another one called rapid which I like this one.

It's like, Chuck, sleep Chuck, Chuck, you're hypnotized, Chuck, listen to my voice, you're sleepy, Chuck, focus on me, Chuck, Chuck. What. Yeah, Well, and that's what they do in the Vegas shows. And they kind of prey on the fact that you're up on stage, you're out of your element, and you're nervous, and they supposedly that would make you more susceptible to that kind of suggestion. Right, that's too then there. Well, there's another one called progressive relaxation and imagery, where someone

might suggest that you're laying in a field. That's the one that was used on me, or surrounded by bunnies. Where was this? I okay, I'll go ahead and just tell the story. I went to a hypnotherapist about four times before. I didn't go back and he, uh, this

guy would. It was in his house over there off Monroe and this dude's apartment and he was sort of creepy and like the whole situation was a little unnerving, and uh, but I did want, Like they say one of the things that you have to believe that you can be hypnotized in order to be hypnotized, Like you can't go in there as a skeptic probably and like

cross your arms and say wave your watch. But um, I believe that, you know you could do this because my friend went through the cigarette hypnosis and it really worked for him. So he had me look at a this huge painting that was on his wall and just like focus on that. And he had this like new age in your music playing softly and the lights were dim. That's a little creepy. And he lulled me with too

with his voice, you know, and all that. And I went three times, and I guess I was looking for a hypnosis experience where I didn't remember what happened and I was like out of it. But from reading this, it's not like you're out of it. You're just in such a relaxated, relaxed, relaxated, relaxed state that you can go there or something. And the only success that I will say is for one of the sessions I got. It's sort of like meditation. Have you ever meditated too much?

Going on, Yeah, well, you probably wouldn't be very good with hypnosis. Plus I can't get into the lotus position to save my mon. Well, you don't have to. Um. It's sort of like meditation though, and that this one time, I really really was lulled into this like super relaxed state, and we talked about some stuff, and then afterwards I came out of it and he was like, all right, how do you feel. It's like, I feel really relaxed and good. He said, how much time do you think

that took? I was like, I don't know, about fifteen minutes. He went, look at your watch, it was an hour and twenty minutes. Dude, right to check, right, No, he just went through your talking. Uh so it's sort of worked, man, I mean I felt did you feel better? Well, yeah, I didn't go back. I think I went back one more time and they went, it's not for me. You went back for that fourth pity visit exactly. But I felt bad for the guy and then I just quit

like returning calls. Basically, he's like, please come over, but I won't charge you. I haven't seen another person, and so I know he kind of gave me that feeling I hope he didn't listen to the show, but um, breaking me out, man, Like the passage of time definitely weirded me out to where I was like I lost an hour somehow. So you know, I was not saying I believe in it, but it was pretty real. Well you,

I guess we're probably yeah, debunk it. Well, the problem is you You totally nailed the not just why hypnosis isn't necessarily real, but why psychology isn't necessarily real? Chuck, have you heard of the Dodo Bird effect? No, Dodo

Bird effect? It was there was a psycholog just in I think the thirties and I can't remember his name, but he figured out and it's it's been proven time and time again that no matter what psychological orientation you're using, whether it's um, Freudian psychoanalysis, UM or behavioral cognitive behavioralism, whatever, as long as the patient believes that he or she can be healed, believes in the therapist's abilities, and the therapist believes in that orientation, there's going to be success.

It is powerful, but the mind of the patient is powerful. Right. What is described by the Dodo Bird effect, and it's based on some part of I think through the looking glass or whatever, the Dodo bird decrease, everyone's a winner. It's the placebo effect. That's what hypnosis says. It's a placebo effect, but more specifically, it's a socially or cultural bound placebo effect like voodoo. Remember when we talked about voodoo, and it's there's a well we when we talked about zombies.

I don't think we touched on it and voodoo. But with zombies, it's like, if you live in a culture that believes in zombieism and steps are taken to make you think that you have been afflicted and and and made into a zombie, you're going to act like a zombie.

Most likely. That's what hypnosis does in my opinion. Well, and I sort of agree with that, But he also makes a point to when I was reading this, I'm glad he made the point in the end because the whole time I was thinking like, yeah, but if the end result is the same as hypnosis, isn't that the same? Like it's kind of splitting hairs, And he makes that point, what's the difference if the placebo cures your ills? Well, the differences is like if you can tap into the

placebo effect. That's what optimal because you're letting the body take over and take care of itself. The problem whom is is when you write a check to somebody, okay for something that you could have done yourself. Or there's an entire field of study like psychology that entire other fields of study like economics or well let's just go with economics are based on the findings of and those findings aren't right it's all placebo effect. Then you've got

a real problem. Yeah, I guess it's a solid point. It is, so I think if we identify the placebo effect, you have to identify it. But the problem is if people know that it is a placebo effect, then it kind of ruins its effectiveness. Usually well, because you gotta believe in it going in. Yeah, for sure. One of the ways they use it is um habit control treatment. And that's what I was talking about. My buddy Johnny Pindell,

who quit smoking. What's your buddy's name, John Pendell? Johnell. Yeah, he sounds like he should be wearing like a Jeane jacket, might deaf Leppard and black like marker on the might be and he might be as you met Johnny. He was the guy in New York that's all guy in the back of the van with us. Oh yeah, I like that guy. I could totally see him in a

jean jacket with death leopard on the back. He U he went through the cigarette program and a lot of times it's like overeating or smoking and they'll basically what they'll do is hypnotize you and reprogram your subconscious to like you're you're gonna feel nauseous every time you smoke a cigarette. And it, you know, with varying degrees of success. It's worked on some people, including John I think he smokes now, but that was years ago. Again, though, I mean,

did it really work. It worked for a little while. If he didn't work because he believed it there It's not just that though. I mean a lot of cancer patients apparently undergo hypnosis to get through uh chemotherapy or to try and heal right period, and a lot of people swear by that. Um. Same with childbirth. UM. Then there's somewhere you're getting in some areas where it's like no, no, if this is a placebo effect phenomenon, like we shouldn't

be using this at all, Like for sick. Yeah for sure. Yeah, because we talked about implanning false memories, there's a likelihood of that. Yeah. What they'll do in forensic is they'll they'll get someone who has like a suppressed memory of like an awful crime, and they'll hypnotize them to bring out these like details of the crime scene. But that's really controversial when it's used at all. Um there's also

um oh, isn't there another one, Chuck? Well, just regular psychotherapy if you have like phobias or h fears, you know, subconscious fears, which is much like the habit control hypnotic treatment, except it's more usually more um guided towards things like phobias rather than quitting smoking. Right, But it uses a lot of the same tricks, like rather than you'll be nauseous, the next time you get afraid of flying, right, it

will be it would? It would? I guess kind of instill in you self confidence or something like that, like you are you don't need to be afraid of this plane wreck. You'll it'll be over eventually. This is gonna be a email generator. I think I think we'll get both sides of the coin on this. A lot of people are gonna say, no, dude, I was hypnotized and it was real. Or I went and saw that Vega show and you don't know anything. It was hysterical, right, Or I think it's bunk and I'm I'm a skeptic.

I think skeptics you're kind of wired that way. You're either skeptic or you're more inclined to believe things. I changed. I've done a complete one eighty. I was thinking the other day how much how surprised I am and what is skeptic I become? Did you at least I love everything that like without thinking Like I I used to think Genghis Khan killed like one point eight million people in an hour. I thought it because it was awesome.

It was an awesome thing to think. And now today I was reading it was actually today I was reading this hypnosis article and I was like, this is bunk, Like I can barely make it through this article. Yeah, And and I realized, just like how much I've changed in that respect. I think you get older and you get a little more cynical and less prone to buy

an to stuff. Do you want to hear any more? Um, there's there's like a whole slew of cultural cultural bound culture bound mental illnesses that are like if you live in a culture that accepts this as fact. There's one that I just want to tell you one, but if you're ever interested, you should go check out culture bound mental illnesses. There's lots of sites that have lists and descriptions of them. But there's one called CORO and it

afflicts Malaysians possibly Indians. There's like, there's large populations that believe in this that under certain circumstances, like after you've had sex with the prostitute or engage in masturbation, if you're feeling particularly guilty about this, you may suffer from CORO. And CORO is the belief that your genitalia male and female are shrinking into your body. It can also happen

from eating unclean food or whatever. So the idea is that if people really believe this, then it will happen, or they just believe it's happening, and so that's what matters. They believe it's happening, and that's what matters. This is why it's classifies a mental illness because it doesn't actually happen, but they'll take steps to prevent it from happening, like putting hooks into their breasts to pull them back out, tearing off their son's penises to keep them from keep

it from spreading. Yeah, so, but that's culturally bound. Like if you did that in the US, everybody be like, you're absolutely nuts. You do it there, it's like, oh yeah, koro, Yeah. I think that's what hypnosis says. It gives you in the United States. Carte blanc two act in ways that you would be embarrassed by normally because you're hypnotized, So the rest of us aren't judging you interesting. I don't think that makes you skeptic. Thanks, thanks man, because I

started to hate that little rotten pardon me skeptic. So if you want to learn more about hypnosis or find out the fate of Chuck based on the fixed gaze induction that he underwent, Yeah that time, you can type in hypnosis h y ke and oh a I s in the search bar how stuff works dot Com. It's the plain old vanilla search bar and how stuff works dot Com and um, I understand it's well, let's just do the listen to mil thing or do we have a plug fest thing? Now? Listen to mail this is

a special announcement time. This is a plug fest. It is plug Fest uh in October. In mid October and Atlanta, Georgia. We're gonna have a couple of things going on. One is an officially sanctioned trivia night at the Five Seasons Brewery West Side. Can look it up on the internet. It's gonna scene. Is it on Mary Et or how All Mill? It's on Maryatt I believe, but look it up. It's easy to find sorted near Georgia Tech. It's right by where how A Mill and Marriot to come together,

I think at that point. Yeah, so they have a cool scene there on the roof and it's gonna be awesome. We're gonna have our all star Trivia. We have got some celebrity guests booked. We have Mr John Hodgman of The Daily Show, author and actor John Hodgman. Yes, who I am sure. I would say a hundred and forty of our audience is a huge fan of Yeah, don't call him the PC guy. I've actually had to stop myself last two guys time. Actually, he's he's very cool

about that. He's very thankful for that job. So it's not like he's like don't call me that. Yeah, I don't ever want to discuss that again, right does that's our Hodgman impression? It sounds nothing. We have the guy who used to play um Bow Duke and the classic seventies TV show The Dukes of Hazzard, Mr Joe Randazzo. He's going to be joining us now. He is the editor in chief of the Onions. Yes, he quit The Dukes of Hazard. Gotta get work somewhere. America's finance a

new source. Joe was coming down from New York with John. I wonder if they were going to ride down on the same planet. Uh. And Dave willis local legend from Adult Swim on the Cartoon Network. Dave was a co creator of Aquitine Hunger Force, squid Billy and the Awesome squid Billy said he seen squid Billy, it's so great, and uh, we land a day and we're like super super psyched that he's going to be here for this.

So what we're saying is you can come to Five Seasons Brewery in Atlanta no matter where you are on October three, which is the Wednesday. It's a work night, but just take the next day off trivia you will be worth it to play us Hodgement, Randazzo, Willis and possibly a couple of others in trivia for free. Just come, you buy your own drinks or whatever. And apparently have you seen the menu at this place? Oh it's good, awesome, that's where I had the cow cheek cheeks are the taste.

He's part of any animal that I didn't care for it really then it makes me stay and I've been like it. We'll get you some sweet print sometimes. But you can come and hang out with these guys and yeah, they're all very approachable. Yeah, and we'll just play us in trivia. See what you got, bring your books, your John Hodgman books. He's got a couple of books out that I'm sure you'd be happy to sign. Probably will

do that again. Uh, if you have an email about our trivia event, yeah, we have the other it to the non sanctioned event though. Oh yeah, go ahead. The night before trivia Tuesday, October twelve, our buddies, the Henry Clay people are in town. Yeah, at just Drunken UNI. Right by chance, they are in town. Uh, doing a headlining show this time, which is awesome at the Drunken Unicorn on Constant Leon Avenue, and I imagine it'll be sort of a late show. It's one of those kind

of clubs. But you're gonna be there, right Oh yeah, yeah, Josh and Umi will be there, and Emily and I'll be there, and Jerry. We're gonna make you come even if you don't want to. And I think hopefully Joe is going to be in town and go with us. We'll see day before and we asked John if you would be there too, so we'll see and um, yeah. If you're not familiar with the Henry Clay people, they had a song on Gossip Girls. Did you know that? Oh really? Yeah for them, camera what it's called. But

that's a big time make a little coin. Yeah, I'm sure probably not. I'm sure they're They're label is just like, yeah, here's some tires for your road trip. So that is a non sanctioned, non official event, but we want to encourage people come out to that show, hang out with us, hang out with the band, give Jordan the keyboard player or some Greek for having line disease. You picked it up at Chuck's house from be a good time. We want to pack it out for those guys. Uh, it

won't be hard junking Unicorn holds like fifty people. So yeah, you're right. So again, Chuck said that was a non sanctioned event. I guess marketing was all over and for that one, just being you just c O A c O A buddy. Thanks man. If you want to send us an email about our Atlanta event, you got any questions anything like that, you can um post it on Facebook, uh, Facebook, dot com, slash stuff you should know. You could ask

me on Twitter as Gus. We tweet at s y s K podcast and you can also email us at stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page. M hmm. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready, are you