How Poison Ivy Works

are finally moving. Um. You know, we've been in this building since you and I and Jerry have been here, actually since how Supports has been around, right, I think it started in North Carolina. Well, no, I mean Marshall Brain's kitchen. No, no, I mean the Atlanta version. I genuinely don't know, but probably. Yeah. So we've been in this building in Buckhead, Atlanta. That's not super exciting. And our first office was kind of cool. This one is

decidedly not cool. We call this one the call sent there. Yeah, it's really it's just not a creative space. And so, um, when we were sold by Discovery Channel this summer, our new parents, Blue Cora uh said, let's move you into a cool creative awesome new space and we are all super excited, um, except for you probably with the commute. Yeah, but I mean it's still it's pretty cool. I mean there's gonna be an easy Kiah downstairs. Yeah you know. Yeah.

I think it's the same people that developed Chelsea Market, yeah, in New York City, so they're doing something here too, and we're moving into it. Yeah. It's called pot City Market, and um, it is the old Sears building from the early nineteen hundreds, which I used to go to as a kid when it was Sears in the nineteen hundreds. Very funny and what was the nineteen hundred nineteen eighties? Oh wow, not bad, you were thinking nineteen twenties though,

I know where you're going. So we're we're trying to have a bigger presence in Atlanta and to be a little more visible in the world and the world, and so we're gonna have a cool new office space and it's just awesome. So thanks to our boss Jason and Jerry for working so hard on all this, and Michael and Izzy and everyone's done a great job. And we're moving in like we're to do the last like six shows or so. We're recording here ish, Yeah, until we move into our new new place. Yeah, so I just

wanted to say that we're super excited. That was nice. Chuck. Yeah, hats off to you too, killed a few minutes. So that has nothing to do with poison ivy uh at all. No. And as a matter of fact, I'll bet there's not much poison ivy around pot City Market. No, I hope not. It seems like the kind of place where they would keep the poison ivy under control. Yeah, and I imagine this also, by the way, it will be a show where there will be many people scratching themselves. I did

while I was researching. A matter of fact, I just scratched my ear while you said that. Yeah, but that had nothing to do with poison ivy. I have a poison ivy story for you, alright. Um So, actually, when I lived in the Highlands, um, let's see, not too far from Pont City Market, you mean, and I had this house we're reading, and it had a pretty substantial poison ivy vine growing up this big oak tree in the front yard. Front yard. Yeah, you probably wouldn't have

seen it the back. Um, I for some reason had a suspicion that I was immune to poison ivy. Dude, I remember this. I don't know why I thought that, but I did. Even still, I took, you know, some precautions. I wore, like gloves and a longsleeve shirt and jeans and boots and everything like you're supposed to um. And then I went out and decided to like take this

thing out. That's when you were in your homesteading days, right, So first things first, you have to shop the vine, right, Because the like grows alongside the tree, like latches onto it to grow up. It can so um when it when it gets its meat hooks onto the tree. I think that's a technical term for it. Um Like, it's kind of tough to pull away, so you want to chop it off first, and then you pull it away from the tree. And this thing was growing way up

this oak tree. It was a substantial poison ivy vine. So when I pulled it down, not only did a lot of the poison ivy detritus fall down onto me, the whole vine, like a twenty ft vine, just fell down on top of me. And I'm I'm looking up as the stuff's falling down. It's going into my face, it's getting under my shirt, it's going into my mouth, my eyes, it's everywhere, right, And I'm thinking, man, I'm really glad I'm immune to poison ivy. Still, I don't

remember why I thought this. I'm picturing he's standing there with your mouth light up pretty much like Wow, it's a lot of poison ivy that just came down. Um. And so I'm standing there, I'm I'm starting to clean it up, and I'm as no rash is coming around. I'm like, awesome, I am immune to poison ivy. I was right, because it's been like two minutes and no response. Well fast forward to like an hour or two later that it was pretty quick. I was like, oh no,

I told you too. I was like, I'm immune, and she was like, you need to get out of those clothes and take a shower. But it was too late, And I guess you remember I do. It was. It was really bad for like a couple of weeks. Yeah, I have always still thought I am immune, and I maybe because I've still never gotten poison ivy at all. That is really surprising. Yeah, and I've been in contact with it plenty as an outdoors enthusiast in a camper

and hiker um. But I remember I was telling Jerry uh in between my father used to get it like crazy. Like one of the memories I have a child as a child is my it seems like he constantly had poison ivy and that pink uh is that calamine lotion? Yes, just constantly slathered on his body and a lot of um myths being bandied about, like I would catch it from him or don't scratch because he'll spread it. Yeah,

neither one of those things are true. No. Jod Apatow's wife lied and Big Daddy did she say that in Big Daddy? Yeah, she was like the little kid was scratching and she was like, don't let him scratch. Here, put this uh like frozen broccoli on it. It will spread the rash if if you scratch it. Not a lie, So knock wood. I still have not gotten poison ivy. Um. And that was one of our best intros ever. That's a good one. I'm I'm itchy now. Yeah, so um,

let's talk about poison ivy. Chuck. That was like a good story where one of us is a bone head. Man. I can't believe it, and I think it was just from like having been outside and not like getting a rash poison ivy. But I guess they just hadn't come into contact with it. Well, no, or we'll learn that you could have been immune for a while and developed UM after a repeated exposure. Yeah, that can happen too, but usually it goes the opposite way that the more exposure,

the less it happens. Yeah, which is why a lot of adults like basically age out of UM an allergy to poison ivy if they come in contact with it enough to I'll have to ask my dad actually, next someone to see him. So apparently back in the day, poison ivy UM was used as an ornamental shrub or vine because it comes in both varieties UM. And then they were like, something that causes this much of a reaction in humans has to have some sort of medicinal benefits.

And actually there was at least one guy who really researched UM poison ivy and as a medicine, and supposedly he cured skin ailments. He made like some sort of tonic that he rank and said it cured like a stomach ailment, although it made him sweat and urinate more than usual. UM and this guy was a real urinator too, so that's something he was. But he apparently was one of the only people who really looked into it, and other scientists were like, we're just leaving that thing alone, right,

I did not see that, Okay. I think I saw that with it from medicine, which shouldn't be surprising, you know, because they had a lot of homespun sciences. They had it figured out, sure, but um, it was a It wasn't until I think, like the well the early twentieth century that a Japanese researcher by the name of Majima isolated what it was in poison ivy that um makes us allergic and which is why it has a Japanese name. Correct, Yes,

that's exactly right, which is urushiol. You are you s h i O L. Yeah, after the Japanese erushi, which means laquer. Yeah. Uh. And basically it is um. It is the chemical that is in the sap that is what causes the rash. And apparently the rash is actually called poison ivy as well. Oh really, that's what it says here. It's this poison ivy is the red itchy rash caused by the plant that bears its name. Oh yeah, so I always just called it. Well, people say you've

got poison ivy. Yeah, that's right. I never thought of it like that. Actually, that's exactly right. So what a breakthrough. That's amazing. And the way you get poison ivy is by coming into direct contact with this erusio Um. It's in the plant, it's in the leaves, it's in the roots, it's in the stems, and uh, you can get it. Not only well, you have to come in contact with that,

but it doesn't mean from the plant. It can be on a garden ray candle or a football that you throw in the woods, or your animals fur but um, it's still has to be that actual chemical compound and it's got staying power to suppose the the rush all can um stay potent for years? Yeah, I saw that like a rake from last summer. If you pick it up the next year, you can still get it. Yep, that's insane. So chuckers, if you are immune to poison ivy as you claim, you fall into the lucky of

people estimated who um are immune to poison ivy. But for the rest of us, we are allergic to arushi al yeah, and it doesn't take much. Um they they say, here one billionth of a graham is all it takes sometimes. And this is not just poison ivy. We should point out there is also poison sumac and poison oak and western or eastern and western poison oak, which which are all part of the same family. That I'm not going to try and pronounce. Uh, let me give it a try.

And a card dish c A man I said it like out loud while I was studying, and it didn't take And a card a c A anacardius say, Anacardius say, okay, that sounds about right. Would you see any vowels? It's very difficult. Yeah, The A C E A E at the end really kind of messes yep, but a C A yeah, so anacardius c A yeah. I think that's right. I did it one day. We're going to practice these things twelve times before we record instead of on the

air nex for Riveting podcasting. Uh So, like I said, it's in the stems, the leaves, the roots, the whole shebang. If you want to avoid the rash, you have to avoid the plant. And just because the old saying leaves free leaves three, leave it be. It's true in a lot of cases, but not always. Homer Simpson says, leaves a four eats some more. I think I remember that. That's so funny. And you said that it's found in

the roots, the stems, the leaves, the whole shebang. Um. But even after the plant dies, arushiol can stick around. That's how That's how tough this stuff is. Sure, Like you, um, you killed that vine in your front yard, and what you do? Did you leave it there? Did you eventually get around to h I cut it and pulled it right down. It was a potent as the day is long when I cut it. No, But what you do after it was laying there on the ground. I just

cleaned it up. I was immune. Remember, Oh so you did? You finished it up and put it in like a garden bag or something. I was all it was, like, I might as well have just rolled in it naked. You probably thought, though, you were like, yeah, I showed you. Yeah. I think I probably was cursing it as I was pulling it because it was hanging onto the tree so much. Oh yeah, man, that stuff is like cement um. But the point being, even after you had killed it and

chopped it up into tiny pieces. It still has that active ingredient. And like you said, it doesn't take a much like a billion of a craym. That's right, that's not very much of this stuff. That's like a drop let than the drop um. So we said, Um the leaves three is a good rule to go by. The center leave is usually larger, but not always. Um. Here's some other ways to identify it though. It's generally in low uh, in a cluster like a low weed like or a vine like you said, that can climb right,

So it's either along the ground or it's climbing. This isn't helping difference, you know, it really isn't um by river banks, in the woods, moist areas, if you go hiking a lot or camping, you're gonna see it everywhere. Uh. And the leaves are smooth and have a little teeth sometimes serrated. Yeah, like a serrated edge a good way to put it. Their color also changes, which makes it difficult. I didn't know that. I don't really remember that either. I had no idea. I thought i'd just turned brown.

I thought they went from green to brown when it went dormant. Torment. Apparently it's a seasonal thing, like a reddish than green than yellow. Yeah, which is another reason why they were sold as ornamental vines for a while. That makes sense. But yeah, people are like, no, this, this is just foolishness. Uh and white berries apparently, and um, well, let's take a message break and then we'll talk a

little bit about the oaks and sumacs. Oh boy, right after this, all right, oaks and sumas, my friend, they are uh a little different in appearance. Ah yeah, so as poison oak is called that because it grows into a shrub. It's thought about that, right do you walk along You're like, oh, look at that's cute little oak tree. You're gonna be so big, and you put your face all over it or whatever. You got poison oak on

your face, you dummy. Don't ever get too close to an oaks, apply because it could kill you and your whole family if I wanted to. That's right, And they can be from a foot to six ft tall and um on the west coast and in the south although I don't think we said that you're gonna find poison ivy everywhere, but it says southwest. But I looked at a map and it looked like kind of just California.

Oh really, yeah, I mean it kind of squirted out a little bit there into Arizona some like in the desert, but then other parts of Arizona obviously you're gonna find it um. But most of the country you can get your poison ivy except Alaska Hawaii, because those are great place. I'm surprised Alaska. I'm surprised Hawaii doesn't have it. Everything grows in Hawaii. Yeah, but I don't know why does

it strike me as like woodsy. It seems more like, oh, there's a lot of woods there, lush and palm trees like rainforest e right, but I mean this stuff grows in moist areas. I don't know what to think anymore. Well, this is the thing, like you can't identify it. It grows everywhere, even the places they say it doesn't grow. I mean, it's it. We're in trouble basically. So the oak, the leaves um can also be in threes, but they

are thick, green and hairy on both sides. I think the hairy thing is what's the dead giveaway with the family uh and a d C A yeah, yeah, And then the sumac. You're gonna find that in swamps, uh or in the northeast and midwest along the rivers. And it's a woody shrub. I love that word sumac. Yeah do too. It makes me think of like a Native American like just rowing a canoe of their own making, like down a river. Wow, sumac, that's what it evokes

in my my mind's eye. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Uh. And they have stems with rows of seven to thirteen smooth edged leaflets. It doesn't look anything like poison oak or poison ivy. No, And you know, you should know what this stuff looks like pretty much by now. But if you if you're a city dweller and you're gonna like go to the country looking up online, just look at some photos. Can you identify poison sumac? No, but

poison ivy for sure? Yeah? I usually can, or if I have a question about it, I just assume it is poison ivy and steer clear. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen the sumac. I haven't either until this, uh, this article. There's a little I mean it's kind of pretty. Oh that is pretty. They'll just put your face in this destroy you so um, chuck, I guess let's let's stop beating around the bush here. Okay, uh terrible yeah, Um. What exactly is going on when poison ivy and specifically

arushio comes into contact with your skin? Why do you break out in a terrible, terrible rash? Well, it's pretty much the same if you remember our allergy podcast, the same kind of thing is going on. From what I can tell, it's like a mistaken response correct to something that shouldn't give you a rash, that's all right, which is why you see animals eating it like crazy and rolling around in it because they're like they're they're not dumb humans with dumb immune systems, right, Like this stuff

really is no big deal. Yeah, your immune system when it encounters arushi all turns into like some like bone head at the bar who's like got this heightened like responsive to a girlfriend and like wants to fight everybody. That's what your T cells do in your immune system.

So the arushiol, because of the way that it it's um it's formed the compound that it is, it makes it through the skin pretty easily, and as it has absorbed your body, your skin actually um metabolizes it and breaks it up into little components and presents it to your T cells, your immune system cells, to say, are these guys cool? You recognize these guys? And again your T cells are like, well, no, I want to fight

this guy. And he calls his boys the Cite of Kings, right, Yeah, the Site of Kings come along and they're like, yeah, let's fight. Yes, look at those white blood cells because they are some tough dudes, right. And the white blood cells come in and they're huge, and they turn into my macro fages, that's right, and they eat stuff, They eat the foreign substance like crazy, and in doing so,

that's where you get your your rash. It damages the tissue, yeah, because they're they're not just focusing on the arushiol, because they're indiscriminately just messing the whole place up. The whole bar just goes to pot because there's like classes broken and stools thrown and everything is just messed up. Yeah. It's like the movie Hooper, uh with Burt Reynolds. Yeah, I haven't seen that. One one of the great bar

fights of all time. Oh, I gotta see it. Yeah. Um, So that's what's going on basically, it's that's where the inflammation comes from. It is just like an allergies with hay fever. It's a mistaken response to that pollen in hay fever skates, and it's just your dumb body not knowing that it's really shouldn't be a big deal exactly, which is why, over time, over repeated exposure to poison ivy, even those lunkhead t cells figure out like, oh, your pal, I don't have to mess with you, right, I know,

my girlfriend's pretty, it's cool. I'd look at her to write. They calm down over a while, you know. Um, So eventually, I guess if you just rubbed poison ivy on yourself enough times, your your response wouldn't occur at all. Yeah, but the there's a myth that you can eat poison ivy to develop that immune response. Do not do that. Don't do that because you could die, like seriously, right, So what we just described can happen on your internal

organs rather than your skin. The macro files has come in and indiscriminately just start eating everything and damaging the tissue. That's one thing. If it's on your arm, it's another thing if it's on your esophagus. You know. Yeah, you could think it's swell shut or it's just as bad your lungs too, which is another reason why when you destroy uh poison ivy, Yeah, you don't burn it, because when you burn it, the suiall vaporizes and you can

inhale it. And that's really really bad. That is really bad. Um. You mentioned that you thought you were okay after a few minutes. Uh. There can be something called delayed hypersensitivity. That it's always that Yeah, because yeah, you're not going to rub it on your skin and get it in seconds later. That's immediate hypersensitivity. Um. If you have delayed hypersensitivity, it could take hours. Um, it could take days. You might think you're all good in a few days later

you're gonna get it, which is one of the reasons. Um, the myth of if you scratch it will spread it happens because you might see it popping up on other parts of your body days later, and it's not from scratching or spreading. It's because just that delayed response. Yeah, but you know more about that, right, Yeah. So the whole thing what what we found out people called poison ivy.

The rash is technically called allergic content dermatitis. You can get it from all sorts of things like laundry detergent or like an itchy like tag. It's basically a skin irritation from an allergic reaction, right and with the delayed kind, Yes, it takes anywhere from you know, hours, two days, but it's gonna happen. Um. There's also a media which is like say a beasting or like a peanut where like

you within minutes like you're in big trouble. H And actually if you do start to deplay display the same kinds of symptoms that you would with like an immediate reaction, you really need to go to the hospital. Like if your throat swells up from poison ivy, or your your lips turn blue from poison ivy, or you have a fever that's like over a hundred degrees from it that those are all signs that you need to go to the hospital. This isn't a normal reaction to poison ivy.

If your lips turn blue at all in life, go to the hospital. That's just Dr Chuck jiming in. So we're gonna bust some more myths than all that kind of jazz um, right after this. Okay, So Chuck, Yes, I said that we would bust some more myths. That's right, let's do that, okay. So one of the things you said is that, um, poison ivy doesn't spread it like if you have it. Remember when I had it? Yeah, Uh, if I brushed up against you, you wouldn't have gotten

poison ivy unless I had some sureiall on my skin. Correct. So the poison ivy rash itself is not contagious, no, but if it is still on your body, you could spread it like if I was. If you and I were in one of our famous camping hiking retreats, sure yeah, and we were in the woods and I got out on my hand and then like slapped you on the back and told you what a good pal you were. And of course you hike shirtless, so you might get it because I actually have the compound on my hand.

If it could make it through the thick matte of hair on my back, then yeah, I might catch poison ivy from that. Well, you're hairy on both sides, just like the poison oak. Right. Um, But let's say you do come into contact, you're out in the woods, you're camping, and you know you're like, oh, man, crap, I've been avoiding it, but I just got it all over my foot and I realized I did that. What you want to do is just act super fast, UM, get it in the creek or wash it off if you have

water immediately with just plain water. Um, the quicker you do it, the better your chances. I'm not having that response. And you also want to use cold water to warm water is gonna open your pores, which will allow that sure you all to be absorbed that much faster. It's no good. Apparently warm our hot water will help after you've gotten it though with the itching symptoms, like a really hot shower, but not at first. You rinse off that skin, take off all your clothes that have come

into contact with the plant. You're gonna wash those is quickly. Spots doable um as well. So you're now you're naked out in the woods. You're naked and afraid. Um, you're washing your clothes. You want to wash your skin at that point with this open water, after you've already washed it off initially, Yeah, rinsed it and then um, if you have if you're at home, get some isoprople alcohol in cotton and then do that next. If you're out

in the woods, you probably won't have that. Yeah. So, like you said, if you act fast, you might be able to prevent a reaction. And that's because you are washing the um, are sure you all off before your skin absorbs it. Once your skin absorbs it, you have a very limited amount of time to take some sort of steroid like a corticosteroid um that actually reduced the body's immune response naturally. Um or like an anahistamine is a good a good example of that, yeah, or a

topical if um. If you're super allergic, you may even have a prescription for something like this right which you want to take right away. But if not, uh, just you know, get the cord eight or land a court and rub that all over your body like my dad did.

Look like a weird pink beast. But the problem is what these windows closed pretty quickly because once once the sure re all is absorbed, and once your body mounts this immune response, once those macro fasts go in and do all this tissue damage, your body has to heal from that no matter what, even if your body is no longer responding to this foreign invader that's actually harmless. Yeah, the damage is still done. And you've got yourself this um,

this dermatitis that you've got to deal with. Yeah, and it's gonna itch and they you shouldn't scratch it, not because you'll spread it, because you can actually get infected. And I don't remember were you did you scratch a lot? Are you pretty good about it? I mean I wanted to what were some of your little like, uh, I know when someone that's infected like that with something as an adult, they do all kinds of things like I'm not scratching, I'm just like rubbing my face on my

pillows saper hard right now. I Um, I used a lot of um, a lot of self control, a lot of smacking, Like you can smack the thing um and it won't scratch. And the whole reason you're not scratching is not again, you're not gonna spread it by scratching.

But what you're gonna do conceivably is, um, you're gonna open up these sores because they can get like full on blisters, right, and if you break one of these blisters and you've got like poop under your fingernails you can infect the blister and get up like a skin infection and end up with scars. It's not a good jam. So if you smack it, you're not gonna scratch it or you're not gonna break the skin, but you can still alleviate that itch that's generated by your skin repairing itself.

Because you never know when you might have poop under your fingernails exactly, So just defer to the smack. I'll bet there's a substantial amount of the population who has poop under their finger nails at any given point in time. I don't want that weird stat not at all. Uh So, how shower once you have them. The rash can help sue the itching a little bit. Um calamine lotion can help. Baking soda paste if you're into more natural things, baking

soda and water just mixed together. Basically rub that on there and the old oatmeal bath with any kind of rash will sue things a little bit. I think I used just tons of calamine lotion. Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, I think I blocked a lot of that out. Then would you mean just walk by chicken her head at you every time she tell you she took good care

of me. But yeah, it's good. Yeah. You can also just kind of get around the whole thing by using something like ivy block, which uses something called that's like if you go camping and you know your allergic, you can take something beforehand that's a preventative. That's what's called Yeah, bend o quatum. Bento quatum. Basically, it's like acts as a shield that prevents this stuff, the osrei off being absorbed by your skin. Interesting and it works to to

degree supposedly. Uh, if you do want to get rid of it at your house, you should do what Josh did sort of uh, And that you wore boots and long sleeves and gloves and all that stuff, so you're on the right track. Just don't gaze upward in wonder as this stuff falls down onto your face. Mouth agape. Man, that was just bad, not good. But um, if you do dress up like that and cover yourself, you want to pull it out by the roots, get it all

out of there. And um, because it's a I mean like it's a viney and vines can establish themselves pretty easily with just the slightest fragment of living plant. That's right, don't burn it. No, no, no, it's not just bad news for you, it's bad news for all your neighbors too. Yeah, I imagine, Uh, you got anything else? The old man clark over, there's burning his poison ivy. You're right, I

got nothing else. I don't either. That's poison ivy. If you want to know more about it, including seeing pictures of poison ivy and poison Sumac and poison oak before you go camping, you can type in poison ivy at the search bar at how stuff works dot com. You know, bring up this great article. And since I said search parts, time for a listener and mail. I'm gonna call this

part two of Scientific Method from a scientist. Hi, Josh Chuck and Jerry J. E. R. I. I feel like I'm not getting her name right, So I'm sensing that these scientists are um there. They don't feel good about their spelling abilities, no, but they're doing a great job. They are just her an episode on scientific Method and want to say, you guys did a pretty good job with it in its history. And I say this as

a practicing scientist. Uh. And he had a great long email, but um, I'm gonna have to edit for content, but he talks a little bit about the woes of current science. He said, it is a problem that many young academics spread about. The problems are real, but I want to underscore the fact that in many ways it is a golden age of science right now. So much good work is getting done. It just happens to be a terrible

time to be a scientist. A more funding would help alleviate some of the strain academia is under, but as you point out, there's some systematic reforms that need to happen as well, and many are discussing just what a workable solution is. I have tried to stick as close to the scientific method as possible in my career and haven't been all that productive because of it. I'd rather publish something solid than put something out there this potentially

wrong or flawed. Um. Being able to publish negative data would be good. But even more to the point, science almost works well as improv which is the yes and approach where scientist proposes a hypothesis and supports it, and another scientist picks it up and says, well, yes, if so, then this should also be true as well, and extends the original work, so he's a collaborator. The scientific method is a huge part of our lives and needs to be taught to all. I say we need more science literacy,

not more scientists, but it can be tricky. Science and nature are truly amazing, and yet we're not willing or able to support all those who'd want to make it a career. He gives us the cheers. That is Ian Street PhD. Nice job, you know, knows a great email. Yeah, and good for you for sticking to the scientific method, even to your detriment. Hang in there. I hope you uh write a great paper one day that gets you

accolades and money with great spelling too. That's right. Uh. If you want to be like Ian and talk to us, you can tweet to us at s y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and as always, you can join us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.