How Personalized Medicine Works

all over the country eventually probably all over the world. Yes, and you can get tickets. You can just go to s y s K live dot com. It's our square space powered site and they were powering our tour and they were they're powering me on a daily basis. So we will see you guys very soon. Welcome to Stuff you should Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua m clark. There's Charles w Wayne, Chucker's Chuck Tran Bryant Chuck Trand I

remember that and then that one never even made sense. No, who said that me? Yeah, I don't get it. It doesn't mean anything. That's why I never made sens. And then there's Jerry Chairs, Jerome Rolling, Jair Tran, and Josh Tran. Yeah, the trans I'm excited to record this and then leave because I just quickly on my phone saw that Billy Joel did Ado performance in the commercial break of IT talk show and the video was up. Oh yeah, so

I got things to do. Okay, well, let's go personalized medicine. Chuck, huh, So let's take it back. Let's take away back. Okay, let's talk about medicine in general. Right, are we way back machining it or no? No, no, no, all right. So there's this idea that um two best understand how to treat a person, you should understand. Critique said, it's far more important to know what person the disease has

than what disease the person has. Boy, that is smart for back then it is you know, and I think that this was the original idea behind medicine, that we we can understand a disease, but when you apply it to a person, it's going to be different than when you apply it to another person. And that is the heart of personalized medicine, is that understanding. Unfortunately, for many hundreds of years. Well actually for a shorter time than that.

But in Western medicine, the idea has been that if it works for most people, it will probably work for you, or that's good enough for us. Yeah, it's called a trial and error approach, and that should scare you to death. Well I get it, because until we until the Human Genome Project, we didn't have a lot of choices as a society other than to do our best for the majority.

You know. Well, yeah, like that changed everything. It did, but even before that, it was it was like, that was what two thousand, two thousand one, something like that, the Human Genome Project. Yeah, I mean before that, there were some precursors to personalized medicine, like let's look at family histories and stuff like that. Yeah, but even like it's that's not that old. It wasn't until World War Two that people started noticing huh. You know, different people

have different reactions to different kinds of medicine. There's actually an anti malarial drug that was given to troops in World War two, American troops, and um, if you're an African American, there's a high likelihood that you might develop anemia after you were given this anti malarial drug. But that wasn't that didn't show among um. White troops and

doctors thought, what's behind this? And they went and looked and saw that genetically speaking African Americans were less likely to have a gene active that produces a protective enzyme that keeps you from developing anemia when you're giving this particular anti malarial drug. And that in the middle of the twentieth century, it was the first time we really started in the Western medicine tradition thinking that no, people have different reactions to different types of treatments and can

have different experiences with different types of disease. Did they do something about it in that case? I don't know. I was curious. It depends on the time period in this country. Shamefully, they might have said, like, yeah, but who cares. Yeah. At the same time, the Tuskegee Um, yeah, exactly, Yeah, the Tuskegee experiments were going on. We're also infecting people in Guatemala with syphilis. Crazy crazy stuff. Um. So you

mentioned Hippocrates, um, more than two thousand years ago. He was pretty advanced for thinking that jerkxes needs bleeding, but uh uh Zeus does not. Zeus never needs a bleeding by that, But it was lightning bowl at the problem exactly. But he was way ahead of his time to be thinking that way back then. Um, some other pioneers since then, I think we talked about these two, Reuben Otenberg and

Ludvik hick Thorne job. I don't know that was not good hicktoin uh in nineteen o seven, and I think in our blood episode we might have talked about this. That was such a good episode, it was a really good one. I think, Um, they were the first ones to say, you know what, people have different blood types as it works, so that's why people keep dying. Well, now we're putting this blood into someone that doesn't have the same blood. So that was land Steiner who came

up with the idea that way. It wasn't blood types. These two were the ones who first started to match people, like, well, let's match these people. That's the that's yeah, that's a pretty good first example of personalizing medicine on the most basic level, like let's not kill people with blood right uh.

And then like I said, um, family histories and such, they finally started saying, hey, you know what, maybe we'll look at your father and your mother and your grandparents, because if they have this disease, you might have it as well. But everything changed when the Human Genome Project came along, and UH, all of a sudden, we found out we could learn a lot more about our predisposition

for certain diseases. Yeah, because if you think about it, um are reactions to different diseases, and also the same medicines that treat different diseases. UH, can be traced down to the to the genetic level, to the molecular level, to whether a gene is turned off and expressing a certain kind of protein or enzyme um or whether our genes are going to allow for a tumor that expresses

a certain kind of protein that can be tracked. If you conceivably can look at a person's genome sequence, the whole thing, analyze it, and then look it what genes are turned on or off, what proteins are being expressed, that kind of thing, then you if you also know that a certain kind of drug attracts a certain kind of tumor that's associated with that type of genome or genetic sequence, then you can put patient and drug together under its ideal form. Dude, we should stop and just

walk away. That's a mic drop statement. I don't think we need anything else. Okay, I'm gonna go watch Billy Jolson do up. All right. So, if you think you go to the doctor and you get personalized medicine, in a sense, you sort of are. But what we're talking about is what Josh has said, which is your own individual biology being the most overriding factor in how you were treated. Your biology, not just you know, you're a human being. Yeah, this works on human beings and horses.

And your mom had cancer, your grandma had cancer, so you might have cancer. No, we're talking about looking inside of you to find out what your likelihood to get these things are, and like you said, matching you with the best treatment plan, right, one of those UM one of those courses of study. There's a lot of different things that really kind of fall under personalized medicine UM. But one of those sub fields is called pharmacogenetics, right.

And that is again, if you can take a person's genome and then uh analyze it, you can say, well, I see the sequence right here would react very well to this particular drug. That's pharmacogenetics matching the drug to the person, right, yeah, which is the opposite of hey, it works for eight out of ten people, and if you're just one of those, the T S T S and that seriously, that is the basis of western medicine as it stands right now. It's it called it's a

trial and error approach. And they don't usually stop at ts. No, they just say like, oh, you survived that round of drugs, but it didn't Let's try something else. Maybe maybe this other one that doesn't work for it tends to work for that might work for you. And then it just goes on and on and on until they finally hit upon that drug hopefully that that doesn't work. I say hopefully, because within that trial and error period a lot of

people die. Sometimes that first time, that first trial results in a fatal error, and those are called a d S or adverse drug UM events. There's seven hundred and seventy thousand people in the US alone they either die or are injured by an a d E every year in the US alone, almost a million people, seven hundred and seventy thousand people every year. You give that person

a drug and they might die. And the one of the goals of UM of pharmacogenetics is to avoid a d e s so that you can say, before you give anybody a drug, like this won't kill you, Yes, exactly, this won't kill you. We know that because we scanned your geno. We're not guessing here. We know you genetically will not die from this drunk. Yeah, I think we should caveat here when we say things like guessing and like I don't want to paint the medical industry is

you know, just throwing darts with a blindfold. They've done They did the best job they could, I think, to treat massive amounts of people in the most efficient way possible. But things are getting better now because of the human biome or the human genome and what we've learned about it. Like when I look about the future of medicine, it

is like it's super rosy. Yeah, I agree, you know, like a hundred years from now, it's it's gonna be amazing what we're gonna be doing, maybe like thirty Like we're right there on the cusp right now, where we went through a fairly dark age as far as medicine goes, where we were taking shots in the dark, figuring things out as we went along, and now we are right there at the age where we're about to just take off like a rocket and really understand health and wellness

and treatment of disease. All right, well, I feel like we're on the cusp of the message break as well. I think you're right, So, Chuck, I was talking about pharmacod genetics, right, there's actually some examples of pharmacogenetics already taking place. This isn't necessarily in the future, like this is already starting. Yes, I think it started in the nineties, right, yeah,

And and we'll get to this later. One of the big reasons that things are cooking now, cooking with gas, as my dad used to say, is because the massive drop in cost for mapping your genome. Yeah, like assive. In fact, i'll go ahead and tease you here and uh, the first time it was done to James Watson in two thousand seven, that was two seven, not even the human genome that was two thousand one. Two thousand seven was four. A time they mapped the person in full

cost a million dollars. Now you can get it done a good A good one, not a full You know, you can't map out the entire genome for this amount of money. You can, you can you can sequence it. You can sequence it for that's the caveat less than two dollars, and pretty soon it's going to be about fifty. And then from what I saw in that, I think that was like a Business Insider article, there was a

dude who gave this this really interesting lecture. Um. He very strongly asserted that they were pretty confident by thanks to economies of scale, Uh, genome sequencing will cost about a penny. Yeah, they won't. Won't cost a penny, Like you won't pay a penny. I guarantee you that. No, No, but it'll be but it might be like fifty bucks and someone will be makingfit. No. The I think what he was saying was if you take all of the genomes that are sequenced in a year, ultimately that's what

it will have cost. It's about a penny each, right, But they it's gonna pop up in in different ways than what you have now. Like this is a pretty common thought that you will pee into your toilet, and your toilet will have a genome sequencer attached to it, and when you pee, your urine will be analyzed for any changes from that morning or the night before or anything like that, so that your baseline health is monitored

on a like a several times a day basis. Right, if my toilet starts telling me to cut down on my drinking, then I'm gonna start peeing outside. I imagine that you can probably set it to kind of take it easy on this area, you know that kind of And when I say start being outside, I mean full time. I p outside almost every night, off of my deck.

Sometimes you even stand up. Yeah, that's Raymond mcaulay, by the way, he's the bio technology and bio and for Maddox chair Singularity University, what's their mascot, the uh fighting curs wild. So he's a smart guy, and he's the one that is saying that this is just getting cheaper and cheaper. And when you look at the graph in two thousand seven, it took a nose dive in price,

Yeah it did. He compared it to Moore's law, where um Moore's law is like the amount of computing power doubles every eighteen months or something like that, twenty four months. They can't remember, um. And it was pointed out that genome sequencing was actually moving in a rate of five to ten times the rate of Moore's law. That's awesome. That is awesome as far as genome sequencing concerned. The problem is computing powers still following Moore's law. And here's

the big problem. This is why we're not all getting our genome sequenced right now. Because it might be very cheap to sequence human genome, it's still very expensive because it requires a lot of computing power to analyze that genome. Yeah, that's the main stumbling block is you can't sequence your genome, stick it in a machine and have it say you'll get cancer. Yet. That's the future, but not too far off. No,

that's like Gattica. Yeah, but the I mean this guy Macaulay was saying, probably in about ten years they will have machines like that. Yeah, which is what we need. That's the main stumbling block right now is there's so much data that computers can't even keep up. So right now you could conceivably get a decent genome sequenced and analyzed for like fifteen grand, which is not I mean, that's not all the realm of it's not the reach

of everybody. You have to be people that, Um, the the the big change will come when all of us get our genome sequence basically for free. And the holy grail in the not too distant future is to not only have a genome sequencer and analyzer in your toilet, but also you'll be wearing like a wearable or have an implanable something, yeah, but or maybe something that's under the skin that is like fitbit, but that's analyzing everything, um,

including your hormone levels things like that. So you're not only analyzing your p you're also analyzing your body in a moment to moment basis. And all this stuff is run through an app you have on your phone that is tied in to your health records and other kinds of medical data um that you control and you share

with your healthcare provider rather than the opposite. That's another big change coming that we talk sucked about in Will Computers Replace My Doctor episode, that that medical information about the person is going to be wrestled away from healthcare and healthcare providers and insurance companies and placed in the hands of the individual. And that's going to be a huge change that will probably come from this personalized medicine

exactly one of the positive changes. All right. So there have been some early stories that have given us all hope for the future when it comes to looking at these biomarkers UM for potential of disease, and one of them, there was a drug called U k A l y d e c O kellidico kalitico I think so UH in two thousand twelve to treat a rare form of

cystic fibrosis UM, which is a deadly lung condition. And the FDA here in the U S approved this drug UM basically because they found out certain people have genetic markers, these biomarkers that they wouldn't respond to other drugs treating UH cystic fibrosis. So they said, this is a new drug that will work for you. Success story boom, and this like this is the future of personalized medicine all over the place. Right. It covers about four percent of

cystic fibrosis patients. So in the US, it's people that the drug was targeted for, right, because you would think I'm just cynical, but you would think that's so few people that somebody be like, a why bother, I'll bet it costs a bunch of money for the drug, But yes,

you're right, UM. And then secondly, it also kind of shows how personalized medicine shifts our understanding of disease to right, the reason these people with cystic fibrosis didn't respond to regular medicine is because their cystic fibrosis was developed because their genes didn't that regulated salt and water movement across the surface of their lungs were mutated and not functioning properly. So this specific drug that targets these four percent of

cystic fibrosis patients goes in and messages with that gene. Well, if you do the other ninetent of cystic fibrosis patient, their salt and water um movement is just fine. That's not why they have cystic fibrosis. So it changes your understanding of cystic fibrosis. It's not like you have cystic fibrosis. This is why you have it. This is how your body is showing that you have cystic fibrosis. You have cystic fibrosis, and you can have all these you can

have it under these different mechanisms. That's what personalized medicine is changing too. It's changing our understanding of disease itself. Same with cancer, right, certain tumors express certain proteins and although yes, you have an out of control growth that makes a cancer. It really doesn't bear that much of a resemblance to this other kind of cancer. And the more we dig into how people respond differently to cancer treatments and how they can host different kinds of tumors

is changing our understanding of cancer. And a lot of people are like, cancer is too big of an umbrella. These are really almost different diseases. Yeah, And I think the Macaulay guys said the hope one day is to stop cancer before it even starts at such a small molecular level with these advanced Uh. I guess like a

blood test. Yeah, basically the blood test will be so advanced that let's say, you know you're going to develop cancer in five years, Like we can tell that already, So let's just stop it now before there's a yeah, or before it gets big enough that it's a problem. Yeah, exactly. Uh. If you have type one diabetes, I think it is um good news. There is a new system. It's a basically an artificial pancreas device and they are wearable and the clinical developed by u v A and Harvard Go

Cavaliers and Crimson, the Crimson Smarties. That's Harvard. Right, they're not the Crimson Tide too, are they? No, not the Tide, They're just Crimson's the Crimson. I think you guys left part off their Harvard. Well, they do have a mascot, I think, like John Harvard, but it's not like it's just a square of Crimson. I don't know. I think so maybe they're above it. They don't need a Crimson Knights Crimson Knights. No, is that Rutgers. That's Scarlet Knights. Anyway,

uv A and Harvard developed this thing together. Uh. And it starts clinical trials in like the next month or two. Uh and for six months, two forty people are gonna wear this thing, this artificial pancreas to tell your body, uh, exactly when you need the optimal level of insulin in your body at all times. Well, and introduces that optimal level. Oh does it? Uh? Huh? How so? So it's like it's monitoring your blood glucost level. Yeah. And you you know,

if you have diabetes you have to inject insuline. Yeah, this stuff, say, is connected to report in your chest. Oh. I don't think this one particularly is this is just a wearable monitor. But I think eventually they're gonna have what you're talking about. I guess I'm just getting ahead of the ahead of myself. That's that's actually regulates, not monitors in the future, I think is what you're talking about, or injects like an optimal dose regulating your glucose so

you don't have to do it. I think this is just a wearable monitor so you could just like press and say, okay, what kind of how much insulin do I need right now? And it tells you the exact like milligrams, so you still have to like a dope, go and inject it yourself, right, I think so. I don't see how it could be wearable on your arm and also be attached to your body like the insides of your body through like a an ivy. Yeah, I

don't think that's what this is. All sounds like there's two different things, but it's still monitoring exactly what your blood glucoast level is. Absolutely and it's your blood loose coast level ergo, it's personalized medicine, that's right. If you have tendus like our buddy Aaron Cooper. Aaron Cooper, he probably didn't hear that. I'll heard it was a ringing. He just hurts. UM. They're working on customizable devices that adjust the audio signal that's unique to your own ear.

In other words, hey just put this hearing aid in there that may or may not work for you, right from what I understand it actually so, UM, you know noise canceling headphones, Well, it kind of works like those. I guess it figures out what pitch you're hearing that tonight is that, and it just gets rid of it. I think that's neat. I do too, UM and then check. There's another early example of a good a big win. UM. There's something called herceptin, and the FDA said, yes, go

ahead with this. UM. They figured out that this particular drug worked for a specific group of people UM whose tumors expressed a specific protein, and it was a breast cancer UM tumor targeting drug. But like again, it wasn't like, oh, you have breast cancer, here, try um her septin, it'll work for you. It's we we we believe that you have this kind of tumor because it's expressing this kind of protein. So her septin is going to treat this

orray for her septin. Yeah, Well, let's take another break and we'll get back and finish up with some of the obstacles in the future. All right, So this all sounds rosy, but there are some obstacles we already talked about. One the previous biggest one was cost. This article itself is m way out of date because it said seventeen thousand dollars a person, and now it's already like two hundred bucks. I think that might be though with the

with analysis. Oh really, yeah, I think that's what they're saying. Okay, oh yeah, follow up on the data. Yeah, all right's announced down to fifteen grand, So it's up by two thousand dollars. So it was written a week ago, all right, But the cost of the genome was a previous hurdle. Now that's coming down. Another hurdle is that we mentioned was just processing the data. And then another hurdle is

just overstating the impact of this of the findings. Um, just because and it's a slippery slope, Just because you are susceptible to something doesn't mean you're gonna get it. No, And that's actually there's something called the Jolie effect, that Angelina Jolie effect. Oh boy, I've got eight thousand jokes. Have you heard about that now? So do you remember when she did genetic testing and found that, um, she was there was a likelihood that she would develop breast cancer.

I think perhaps like her mother may have had breast cancer. I'm not sure, but she was convinced that there was a good chance she's going to get breast cancer. So she went ahead and had a double mestectomy without breast cancer, no tumors, no nothing. She just preventatively had mossectomies. Angelina Jolie did yes, and it created what's called this Angelina Jolie effect. And Christina applegated something like that too. Well,

she had breast cancer. Angelina Jolie didn't have breast cancer, believed that she would conceivably get breast cancer, so it just had her breasts removed and the right um and it created what's called this Angelina Jolie effect, which is this idea that UM, the more we know about our bodies, the more UM focused on all the things that could conceivably go wrong, hype pathetically could go wrong, that we

may take radical steps like like prophylactic surgery. Basically, you know, to prevent something that may or may not even happen. And this is a big concern among bioethicists about this kind of understanding that will come from personalized medicine is are we gonna all become obsessed with our health? Well? I think people that already are. This will just be

the next step of that. Yeah, But I could see if it could bring more people into the full I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't think about their health just because they don't have that kind of awareness. But if it was in their face, like, hey, buddy, here's your genome, Look at this crazy stuff that could happen to you. Do you may start thinking about it even if you weren't predisposed to it before. But you would have to go get that done to begin with.

Well that's another question too. So right now, if getting your genome done costs seventeen grand right, um, should that be just the providence of the rich or that a human right to know what your genome says? If anybody can know what their genome says, should everybody? I predict that the answer will ultimately be yes to that, then there's a right, and the government will probably fund a program for every American get to get their genome sequence years.

Another big problem is the f d A is just overtaxed, you know, it's it's a rapidly moving field and they just can't keep up at this point, which you know, because there are a lot of new things that come along with new drugs, new devices that the FDA has

a test. Well, not just that the understanding of it as well, Like they used to have this open database from the Human Genome Project to where all of these anonymous subjects, genes or genomes were just sitting out there for anybody to go and data mine, right, and then somebody proved that you can actually find you can d anonymize these people because again this is their genome and figure out whose genome you're looking at specifically, And the FDA had to shut it down, but they shut it

down after somebody proved that this could already be done. So they're they're having to react rather than being able to keep up with the changes in the field. And that's one of the other huge slippery slopes in the future is um Well, a couple of things. How insurance companies deal with this um A. Can they deny someone based on a biomarker um right, now there's legislation that has been signed into law that says no, you cannot.

It's called biological discrimination, which is profoundly insightful or foresightful for the government. Sure, I'm really surprised by that one. Uh. And you know what, Canada is the only G seven country that doesn't have this protection biological discrimination, and it's a big deal. There's a lot of people that are going like, why are we the only one where Canada? Uh? Predict Trudeau will change that. Well, there's a big push

to for UM. And it's funny when they voted in the what was the act called uh them Genetic Information Non Discrimination Act of two right um. It passed by a vote of to nothing in the Senate and four fourteen to one in the House. Who is the one? It was Ron Paul of all people. Huh. I'd be interested to know what his his thinking was. I've got

it because I was I thought the same thing. Here's his thinking, because it doesn't make sense that he's because he's pretty obsessed with the government staying out of your bills. He said, uniform federal mandates are a clumsy and ineffective way to deal with problems such as employers, and one of the rubs is either you'll be denied insurance or maybe you won't get hired for a job or promoted if they know that you might, you know, keep the buckets soon. That guy can't push a broom. He's got

a defect on his G four eight gene. But it says right here in his experience, and he can push your broom genetics. He said, uniform federal mandates are clumsy and ineffective way to deal with problems such as employers making hiring decisions on the basis of the potential employees genetic profile. Imposing federal mandates on private businesses merely raises the cost of doing business and thus reduces the overall employment opportunities for all citizens. Huh. Yeah, I see what

he's saying, but I don't know. It's kind of surprised. It seems like something you'd want to protect, um, but it passed by the widest of margins regardless. Yeah, that might be a record. No, I'm sure there's been unanimals one of the I would like to know what those were, you know, like honoring girl Scouts on Patriot Day or something. Now, there was one person's like no, No, that was Bernie Sanders. I choked on a on a tagalong once, never buying

them again. Um, there's another obstacle, Chuck, and it is gathering the information, like yeah, to get this understanding of you know, what kind of genes lead to certain kinds of diseases so that we can treat people in an individual basis when we stumble across that same genome and a person later, you have to under you have to have a big database of genes. So where do you get it? Twenty three and me, that's apparently where you go get it. It sounds like forever twenty one, like

a mall store and me. Uh yeah. They are a company now and the leading company I think for the personal genome test market, and how they're making their money now is not by selling these test kits which is ninety nine bucks, which supposedly they were selling at a loss, right, so they could eventually have this database that they could then sell to whoever, not whoever, but namely like form

of companies and people doing research. So the twenty three and me amassed a database if I think about eight hundred thousand people, six hundred thousand people who took the twenty three and me test and paid ninety nine looks for it, agreed to donate their DNA, their gene, their genome research to research. Right. So twenty three and Me said, thanks a lot, guys. Now we have six hundred thousand

individuals genomes just sitting there waiting to be analyzed. And very recently they closed to deal with a company called gene Tech. Gene Tech paid twenty three and Me sixty million dollars just to analyze three thousand people with Parkinson's genomes. That's why they were selling the kids at a loss, Yes, because they knew the big payoff was in something else entirely. Yeah, and um, they're they're from what I read in the UM A M I T. Technology Review article. Um, the

twenty three and me. You shouldn't paint them, And I don't mean to paint them as nefarious or anything like that. But there's a guy named um Charles Seife who writes for Scientific American. In two thousand thirteen, he called the idea of a private company amassing a private database of human genomes yeah terrifying. Yeah, I mean it definitely is like the stuff of science fiction movies. I couldn't decide

whether or not it was bad or not. I think what people are most concerned about is like, well, what happens in the future, or what if it becomes just like Facebook, where they have the rights to sell your personal information to whoever wants. It's exactly what it is. So Facebook data minds your behavior that you get to use their application for free. Twenty three and Me analyzed your d n A and sent you some stuff back for bucks, and their data mining your genes. It's the

same thing as Facebook. It's just instead of behavior, they're analyzing genes, their data mining or amassing a database of it for sale. But right now they're saying, but yeah, we're selling it to researchers who are out to make medicines to make people better. Yeah, and that's you can't really argue with that. It's just the potential for it. Can you can understand how somebody could make it. It

could could be made very uncomfortable by that. Yeah. The evil overlord, son of the current head of twenty three and me is one will do it well. The founders. The founder used to be married to Sergey Brynn of um of Google. Yeah. I think they since split up, but she still is the founder, and I believe the person who's running twenty three and me hopefully she subscribes to that Don't Be Evil thing too. Seriously, if you want to know more about personalized medicine, we should probably

revisit this every six months, I think, Chuck. Um, you can type those words into the search bar at how stuff works dot com. You should also check out these um awesome episodes. Your limbs torn off? Now, what can can your grandfather's diet shorten your own life? Um? And yeah, blood, that was a good one. And then, um, will computers replace my doctor? If this episode floated your boat, you will love this too. And I said float your boat, which means it's time for listener mail. That means it's

almost time for Billy Joel doo wop. I'm gonna call this Satanic Panic Movies. Hey, guys, my wife Jody and I just listened to the episode on Satanic Panic and we loved it and reminisced about our childhoods. We were both children of the eighties and uh, she remembers all the daytime talk shows about Satanic panic. We both had no idea it was taken so seriously by so many people. For me, I always assumed that stuff was just legend.

Although there was a Devil's Drive Street in my own town growing up that kept all its ten year old spooked into our teenage years. Uh and it was a rite of passage when you finally got your license to drive down that street. Mostly, I remember Satanism through movies and pop culture, though given your pinchamp for cinema were cinema tangents, we were both expecting to hear more on that topic in this episode. Agreed. Here's my top ten

list of mainstream eighties satanic Bannock movies. Number ten, drag Net, number nine, The Golden Child. He said this one does not hold up well. I'm supposed to hear that they didn't hold up well. Number eight Children in the Corn uh. Seven, Witches of Eastwick, Eastwick six, Every popular horror movie in the eighties right thirteenth Night around Elm Street elloween. I take issue with that Man's not samar in Elm Street by the third enth is certainly not see pans are

just creepy killer guys. Slash your boots come one. Number five, The Burbs, Yeah, number four, The Evil Dead Series, No. Number three, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom ritual sacrifice. Not give him that. Yeah, I'm not satanas. I think he's just broadened Number two, Poultergeist. No, no, not even close. Number one. I don't think he asked which ones are you gonna say? Don't belong Number one young Sherlock Holmes. I love that movie, but I don't remember much about it.

Oh yeah, there was a whole It was very It was more like Indiana Jones and the templeo Toom was like a ancient egypt worshiping Victorian cult. That was cool. I saw it like in the last year or so. Really, I remember enjoying it when I was red. Where did that guy go? No idea, I was wondering that myself. Uh. Thanks for an amazingly delightful and consistently entertaining podcast. Guys. We came out to your Boston show and absolutely loved it. Happy New Year. That is from Brian Gladstein of Framing

m Massachusetts. Thanks Brian, thank you for half of that list you send as well. We appreciate it. If you want to get in touch with us, send us a list that we may or may not trash. You can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast to how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us at our home on the web, Stuff you

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