How Magnets Work

I am so excited about this podcast. I knew you would be, so much so that I'm worried about it because, as you know, in anybody who even like occasionally listens to the Stuff you should Know is aware of the more excited I get about a topic, the poorer job I do at explaining it. Yeah, so you already did it. I should have said, the poorer the job I do. Yeah, it's true. So I'm just gonna try to remain calm because all we're talking about magna. It's after all, you know,

And that's the way I feel. We usually balance each other up nicely like that. But you don't think that there is some a certain cash to walking around understanding how a magnet works? Do you realize what percentage of the population you're a member of for knowing that maybe maybe, and this is a guess like point zero zero to

nine percent of the human populations how magnets work. I don't know anybody else until we selected this and started reading it besides Tracy Wilson, who knew how magnets work. I think you are underestimating the curiosity of the general public for people to look up this stuff on their own. All right, Um, I would like to hear from people if you already knew how magnets act. Like if we don't tell people this and they're just dumb dummies walking up,

I don't think that. That's not at all what I think. But I will get corrections on this, and I think that will prove that people know this and more. If you're if you're a is a cyst whose specialty is the electro magnetic crack in their knuckles right now and listening, then yes, we're gonna mess things up, it's true. But we have a general, good, well i'd say, fairly detailed idea of why magnets exist. That's right, and we're gonna explain that to everybody. But nic not in any way,

shape or form in a condescending manner. No, no, no, no, because all we did was research and it's right. It's not like we're making magnets here. No, we're just talking about them. You know, they discovered these in Magnesia in Greece. Did you know that what magnets like natural magnets? Yeah, like loadstone in Magnesia increase. Is that really a place Magnesia? Absolutely, you're not pulling my leg Nope, okay, but it was loadstone,

a type of magnetite. It was magnetite because that's the strongest naturally occurring magnet, right, Like you can attract a paper clip just with this rock. That's pretty cool. Yeah. It is even cooler, though, are the ones that humans have conquered and mastered and own. That's right, because all the magnets you come in contact with on a daily basis, maybe a weekly basis, um have been manipulated by humanity.

I never come into contact with magnets. You know something, It's hard to find a decent magnet these days in an average store, Like you have to like mail off for him. Yeah, And I don't have a refrigerator magnets because you know, the stainless steel uh fridges, you can't put a magnet on them. That's so weird. You can

put on the side. So we have a few. You know, you get magnets over the court of your life, whether it's like the pizza delivery guy has, like we have one in the shape of a pizza slice with their number on it, you do, and that's on the side, and like our vet, like we have a vet magnet in this shape of a pizza slice the number and then like you know, random random people have given me magnets here and there, which I'll throw up there on the side. That's good. Those are nice me mentos. You

mean you did, Yeah, that's nice. That's great. So anyway, I don't have a lot of magnets or experience with magnets, but I understand them now now that you say that, I realized that I have more experience than I realized with magnets, because we really you mean, I do have a pretty good magnet collection fridge um. But yeah, it is. It always struck me as weird that like stainless steel wouldn't you couldn't put a magnet on that. I understand

why stainless steel is not a fairest metal. That's right. You have to have a fairest metal, like something to say iron nickel, cobalt aluminum. Even really, I think so because there's a type of male magnet called the Alnico magnet, and that's aluminum, nickel, cobalt alloy. Yeah, that have If you've got a really good guitar amp, you might have

an Alnico seker. Yeah, they're they're pricing. Oh yeah. I can imagine like you can buy the speaker separately and like switch it out in your amp to make your amp some better, which I have been meaning to do for years. But they're just kind of pricing. It's like foucks just for the speaker. But how's this sound? Well, I'm told it's great. But music guys here much more than I do, like real real music guys. They're like, can't you have the difference. Then I'll be like, yeah, sort,

are these music guys also al Nico speaker salesman? Yeah? Probably? So all right, So let's get so this is what I like about this article. It goes like basic, too specific, and you can start with the basics about magnets. They attract specific metals, as we said, typically fairest metals. Uh. They have a north and south pole. All magnets do. There's no north and east polled magnet, and the Earth is the biggest magnet of all. I guess it is,

at least on Earth. Opposite poles attract one another like poles repel one another. They hate each other. That's right. Magnetic and electrical fields are related. And we're going to explain why I'm so excited. And magnetism I think I said electro magnetism earlier, so you can put your email away because I'm correcting myself. Is one of the four fundamental forces of the universe. Right, that's right, with gravity and the strong and weak nuclear forces. That's right. That's magnets.

That's a great intro um magnets the object itself or a magnet is an object in itself, Uh, that produces a magnetic field, and it's gonna attract like you said, ferrous metals, and uh. There can be permanent magnets um a k A. Hard magnets and they always have a

magnetic field going. And then you have the temporary magnets a k A. Soft magnets, and they just produce a magnetic field when they're in the presence of h or when they're in the presence of a magnetic field, and only for a short time and then for a little bit thereafter, like once it's gone once yeah, and then electromagnets. When you apply an electrical current to some magnets, they become magnetic. That's right. And if you have a doorbell,

you probably have an electromagnet in your house. Yeah, the doorbell, I looked it up. It's it's more complicated than you would think. It's it's like a contract. It's like a Rube Goldbergesque contraption that that is apparently pretty standard uses electromagnets. It's the Actually, if you're interested in that, there's an

article how doorbells work on how Stuff Works dot com. Yeah, isn't it weird that the door or maybe it's just me as a missing throw, but like the sound of a doorbell, now it's not like, oh, I wonder who's here? It's a crap who's here? Right? Because no one just drops by anymore? Right? Either that or like they know yeah, yeah,

so chuck um. The magnets that you typically have, like your pizza pizza boy magnet um or like the circle ones that are probably the best example, just a ring, that magnetic ring that you see, yeah, and grew up with those are a specific type and they're called um ceramic magnets, and they're probably the weakest magnets commercially available, except for the pizza slice ones, right, because that's almost like a sticker. Yeah, I mean it's connected to or it's got a you know, a topper on it with

printing topper. That's that's there's the topper, the pizza slice toper. But with the ceramic magnet, it's um. It's magnetic material mixed with ceramics and it kind of cuts it um and it makes it a little weak, Yeah, but good enough to stick on the fridge, which is all you're

looking for. And it's cheap, very cheap. You already mentioned the Alnico magnets, which are more expensive and like you said, aluminum, nickel, and cobalt, and they are stronger than ceramic obviously, but not as strong as the ones we're about to talk about, like uh neodymium magnets or sammari um samarium. You gotta be kidding, Samariam, Okay, Samariam. Both of those magnets incorporate rare earth metals which are extremely magnetic or when combining

an alloy, can be very magnetic It's true. And now they even have uh and this is something I never knew. They have a plastic magnets called magnetic polymers uh. And I guess those are pret used in just very certain applications like cold cold temperature applications, or maybe that's what's on your pizza slice magnet or it says they pick up very only very lightweight things like iron fillings. So I wonder if that's what you use with like your uh.

You remember the little little toy kids thing where you could had a guy's face and I had the little iron fillings and you can move it around and make a beard or a mustache or whatever. I bet that's what that is. What was that call? I don't know, old timey toy number two seventy three a sketch, not a hugo, something like that. And why was it that anybody who had a beard. From the nineteen forties to the nineteen sixties, any child's toy was like the most

disturbing looking creature you could come up with. You think, oh, yeah, have you ever heard of rushed in dolls? They had They were this very successful toy company and they came out with a line of hobo dolls that were like the scariest things you've ever seen in your life, like they were meant to damage children. Obviously, we'll keep them from hopping trains probably, I guess, you know, yeah, play with it at home on the road, Yeah, if you

hop trains. Interesting. Uh, let's see. Oh, I made a blog post actually called twenty seven and the most unintentionally terrifying dolls you've ever seen or ever created. It's like almost every doll in my opinion. You should see the slides. It's pretty good. I'll check it up. Okay, So let's talk about making magnets chuckers. All right, Well you talked about load stone, uh, form of magnetite, and that is, you know, the natural strongest natural magnet You don't have

to do anything to it. Um. So, I guess the discovery of loadstone and the fact that it attractive metals made people start to tinker around with it. And um, I guess around the twelfth century people figured out that if you took a little iron pin and he took some loadstone, and you petted it in the same direction, preferably in a north northern direction, like you, you could magnetize that iron filling and if you suspended it in

something like water in a leaf. For anyone who's seen that movie with Alec Baldwin and um Anthony Hopkins, the edge they magnetize like a needle and put it in like a water filled leaf and it they figure out which way is north through. I knew had seen that before. So that's uh, that's basically magnetizing a pin using loadstone. That's how the earliest compasses were made. Very cool. So what's going on here, and this is sort of the basis, and we'll break it down to, like you said, a

more molecular level. But what's going on here is something own as a region called a magnetic domain, and it is actually part of the physical structure of any uh, ferromagnetic material. So we're talking again iron, cobalt, and nickel largely, and each one is like its own tiny little magnet right there. It's got its own little north pole, its own little south pole, and um they if it's unmagnetized, then this stuff is just gonna be random and pointing

in all different directions. Right. The domain has its own north and south pole, but it's not necessarily aligned with the north and south pole. On Earth, right, they're just kind of a skew. If it's magnetized, they're all pointing in the same direction, right, Yes, that's that's pretty much all you have to do is figure out how to um get all of those magnetic domains to align in the same north south line, yeah, because if they're not,

they're just canceling each other out exactly. So, um, the more domains that you have pointing in the same direction, the more powerful magnet you have, UM, and the in each of these little domains you can just kind of I almost see it as like a little pocket in the molecular makeup of this, like an iron. Um. The north pole of one domain flows into the south pole

of the domain in front of it. If they're all aligned and you add a bunch of these up, they produce one large magnetic field for the magnet as a whole, right, Yeah, which explains why if you you know, if you do the old trick in elementary school, or you bring one magnet close to the other one, it'll either repel it or you know, snap it together like one larger magnet, right, Because the force, this magnetic force is going into out of the north pole of the magnet and into the

south pole of the magnet in front of it. Very dirty, it is right. Um. Or if you take the north pole of one magnet north pole of another magnet and put them together, they were polling another because their magnetic forces are flowing in opposite directions and pushing one another apart. Which is kind of funny because this is how magnets work. But it bears such a striking resemblance like something they would have come up with in the fifteenth century, like

the force flowing out, this invisible force. It's witchery. And this is why magnets won't be brought together. Like people would come and drag us out of here and toss us in a lake to see if we float that. Uh. So we could stop there and you would have a pretty good idea of things, but we won't know. We'll continue on. Okay, we'll go a little a little more

in detail. Huh. That's right. If you want to make a magnet, you have you have to get all these magnetic domains flowing in the same direction, just like we were talking about earlier. When you rub the needle on the magnet, uh, you expose it to this magnetic field and we're getting these suckers to align in the same way and then boom. That is one way that you can get a magnet, right, And there's different ways of doing this. Um you place it in a magnetic field

in the north south direction. You can hold it in north south direction and hit it at the hammer. That's crazy. It is a little crazy, like you're physically jarring these domains into alignment. Yeah, okay, I'll point this way then um. Or you can pass an electrical current through it. That's kind of a cheap. And they think that this is where um loadstone came from. Either it was when this

rock formed the magnetize formed um from a lava. It was aligned with the north south pole of the Earth, so it became magnetized, or it was struck by lightning, so an electrical current paths through it. That'd be pretty cool, and it became magnetized as a result, And it seems likely right, um, But today the most common method of of making magnet is to place them in a very strong magnetic field and by a boom, by a being, their domains start to to wind up. But yeah, there's

gonna be a little delay though. And I saw this like on a on a YouTube video of this guy. There's a really good one. I can't remember what it was called where the guy broke it down. Whateverage stuff I don't understand. I always type kid science and then then I look and see what videos are A yeah, yeah, no,

it's it really helps out. Um. But there will be a delay called hysteresis or hysteresis, and uh that that's basically just the time it takes for these for the field to change direction and I'll align itself right, Because when you get these domains going, um, the ones that aren't already lined up on a north south pole, Um, they just rotate around and do a little crazy spinning until they land on it. And the ones that are already aligned north south, Um, are they grow bigger, Yeah,

become more robust, I guess yeah. And as a result other ones, the walls between um, smaller domains will shrink, and so you have large north south domains and then even the smaller ones are now probably polarized along that that north south line and you have just created a magnet. Yeah.

And here's what I think was one of the really cooler aspects of this is how strong your magnet is depends on how hard it was to get these domains to move in that direction, and the harder it is, the longer it will stay magnetized, which sort of makes sense.

It's almost like that it was so stubborn to get going, but then once you got it going in the right direction, it was then stubborn on doing it at that action right, which kind of makes you wonder like if over enough of a time span, well, any magnetized material eventually lose its magnetism just left alone. Huh, that's a good question. Uh, you there are things you can do to de magnetized things. You could take a magnet and put it in a

magnetic field that's polarized the opposite direction. It's kind of mean. Yeah, you can. You can boil it alive, which is also very mean, and uh, heat it to the point where it loses its magnetism. Yeah, the cury point. The guy

in the video tested this. He had a paper clip on a string tied to the table and then the magnet was like a foot off, so it was just like doing and then he took a Jerry Lewis and then he said, Dean, bring me a lighter, and uh, he got a lighter and heat it up the paper clip and then you see it start to shake and then eventually it just poop fell. That is a weird story. He demagnetized it using the Curry point. Um. So, okay, again,

we could stop here. I think everybody understands how magnets work, right, Like, there's little magnetic domains that are in all kinds of crazy directions, and then when you expose them to a magnetic field, they line up together and they produced their own magnetic field around that magnetic material, and then there you go. It flows out of the north and into the south. Magnets, right, I would like to see a survey.

I wish you could take an instant survey of people that you know, half of them are going go, go go, and half of them are like, I'm good. Right, that's all I need to know about magnets, right know. I think our listeners are pretty curious folk. Okay, so we're going deeper. And Tracy Wilson, m who are site manager here of stuff you miss in history class? Now, she wrote this one, and she's so thorough. She has a very nice little pun in this section called shipping magnets

get it ah shipping magnets. Yeah, I got it now. I didn't notice that before. Yeah, it's a pun um. What she's talking about in this section though, was interesting in that very large magnets present a lot of problems because they're super strong and you can't just throw it on a truck. Uh, and you know, drive it across country.

You know, it'll disrupt everything. So very uh specific precautions have to be taken when delivering large magnets used for certain like industrial applications, one of which is they have machines that because it will pick up all this fairest material along the way, they have machines when they get

there to remove all that stuff. Yeah, and I mean a manager if you're shipping it in like a truck, and the truck is made of or has some sort of iron alloy in it, and you have a huge industrial magnet, how are you going to get that off of the truck? You're not exactly, So they magnetize these materials on site typically, right, That's what I understand. Or else they just rely almost exclusively on electro magnets, which become magnetic when you pass the current through ather. You

can say manpower, right, American ingenuity. That's how you do it. It stuck, sir, right, um, Well, speaking of sticking, we're going to break it down to the electrons, which the atomic level. This is about to happen because that's really where it all starts. Well, we're I was just saying, like electro magnets, they become magnetic when you pass the field of electricity through them, or current, And all electrical

current is is a flow of electrons. Movement of electrons produces electricity, and electricity and magnetism are are very much related. And this is why because on the atomic level of a ferrous material, iron, nickel, cobalt, right, because are the big ones. It's called the big three. Well, let's let's talk specifically about iron in In an iron atom, there are around it's its orbit. In its orbit, there are electrons moving around the spin downward or or upward, and

typically they're paired. And when you have a pair of electrons, one spinning upward, one spinning downward, there's there never any other way. There's no pair of electrons that both spin in the same direction. Is always opposite. Yeah, it's called the poly exclusion principles. Just not possible, right, exactly. Um, So in iron, you also have four unpaired electrons that all spin the same way. Now, those ones that are paired in spinning the opposite direction, they cancel one another out.

But these four spinning the same way produce a magnetic field, a very very very very very tiny magnetic field, but a magnetic field. Then the last, right, and this is very unusual for these unpaired electrons to be spinning in the same direction. That's why it only happens in things like iron, cobalt, nickel, right exactly. That's what makes them ferro magnetic materials. Yeah, potentially magnetic because they have these unpaired electrons that are spinning in a certain direction. Right.

And then because these things are spinning in the same direction, they attract other atoms to kind of line up that are spinning in the same direction, to line up nearby, and then those create what domains well, what a moment they have a moment? Oh yeah, I forgot the moment. It's called the orbital magnetic moment. And I get maybe that's just when they realize, hey, we're all we're all partying in the same way, we're all spinning downward, and

we all like slacks. Yeah, and hey, we've got a magnetic field all of a sudden, small, but let's get a bunch of other ones and let's create a larger one, right, And that moment is um. It's a It describes the force, the I guess, the power and the direction of the spin. Yeah. So yeah, when you have a bunch of them having the same moment, they kind of line up around one another. When this when iron forms, that's right, And then that causes the domain or that creates the little magnetic domains

and in the material that's right. Uh. And if you notice that um materials that make good magnets are the same materials that magnets attract, then uh, it's because they attract unpaired electrons that are spending in that direction. It's it's the same thing. And you can also have something called die magnetic, which are unpaired electrons creating a field that repels instead of attracts. And then some materials don't

react at all with magnetics, like pine straw. I think now is the time for a word from our sponsor. All right, back to magnets, because there's still some more to go. I mean, now everyone's listening to this understands magnets on a an atomic level. It's the spin of electrons. It's physics. Yeah, my favorite thing. Yeah, this one actually appealed to me more than usual phys physics one is here.

You know, remember the physics is surfing I do. Alright, So people measure magnets to see, you know, how strong the magnetic field is using something called a goss meter, and um, flux or Webber's are the um what would you call that? You measure? Okay, so flux is a line of magnetic force coming out of it, but I botch, that's all right, Okay, So the density of the flux is measured in either tesla or goss, with Tesla being ten thousand goss, which is pretty cool that you get

a unit of measurement named after you. If you're Tesla, you better if you're tesla stuff. Uh. And you can also measure it in Webber's per square meter, but really who wants to do that in Canada? Probably, And then the magnitude of the field is measured in Ampire's per meter or something called or stead. Yeah. I like Courstead. I'm a fan of Oorstead, and I also like flux and Testa's pretty awesome too. So where do we use magnets besides pizza reminders or doorbell um word of course speakers,

we use them too. If you were in the cassette tapes back in the day, brother, you were into magnets. Yeah, um, we also used them again, encompasses, burglar alarms, electric motors. We use them to provide torque. Yeah, car spetometers. If you have an old fashioned cathode rate tube television set, you're using magnets. Did you listen to cassettes? What sure? Man? It was I grew up in the eighties, Okay, I was just I wasn't quite sure. You know, you're a

little younger, but I didn't know. I was a late adopter of cassettes, well know of everything, because what I would do is I would have a big collection and then be like, I got all these records. So I was late to cassettes, and then I had all these cassettes. I didn't want to switch to CDs until all my cassettes got stolen and I was like, all right, I guess I'll get CDs now. Let IM going CDs. Yeah, yeah, No.

I was there for the big transition from cassettes to c ds, remember, like they were across the board, twenty dollars in the big box to waste. See look at that maglev trains. Yeah, we talked about this. We have a cool one of our little one minute um live action shorts online. We we uh and maybe I'll post this when we release this. But the maglev train system and a lot of roller coasters and things like that

use super magnets. You don't remember that one. Yeah, the maglev train uses it to propel the train forward, and roller coasters use magnets for breaking a lot of times, like new ones. Yeah, the good ones. You don't remember that one. No, we did like a dozen of them in four days. I don't remember that one. I'll send it to you, thank you. The magnetis sphere is a part of our atmosphere. I guess it's outside of the atmosphere, but it surrounds Earth in a protective layer that protects

it from charged ions known as solar winds. And when these solar winds come in contact with the magnetosphere, you get something that's called the northern or southern lights. Ah, that's what that is. I knew. We talked about that at some point in another short that's right. Um. And then our favorite, of course, the Wonder Machine, would not be possible without magnets because it is magnetic resonance imaging, right, you know, and just be resonance imaging without it. Yeah,

and there's no fun in that. Uh. And then doctor sometimes use pulse electro magnetic fields to actually heal broken bones that haven't heal correctly. It's amazing. I looked into this. They have no idea how it works on a molecular level. All they know is that if you expose bone or tissue. I think bones more more bone and muscle maybe are

easier to grow to an electromagnetic pulse, it grows. Even if it like it hasn't healed under after surgery or any other procedure, if you hit it with an electromagnetic pulse, it'll you'll get a reaction. And they're figuring out how to put this in garments for astronauts. Yeah, because you have you you suffer substantial bone loss on a very

long microgravity flight. Um. So they're figuring out how to weave it into their clothes so their clothes can get can blast them with an electromagnetic pulse to make sure their bone density keeps up. That's pretty cool. But they don't know why it works. They just know it works. Cows are pretty happy they're magnets because there's this horrific thing called traumatic you know, we'll just call it hardware disease. And this is when when cows eat small metal objects

that are in their food. And it's pretty awful that that happens. But luckily they have a cow magnet to feed them, and I guess gathers up all this stuff and then they poop it out. Uh they I'll bet that's horrible to poop out, isn't that what happens? Or punctures the magnet? Yeah, the magnet out. I don't know it. He surely doesn't just stay in the body, does it. I don't know. All right, I'm gonna have to look into that some more. And people are known to put

their arms into cows rears. Yeah, now we we that some some of them have a hole cut in their side, remember, so they can examine their stomach. Yeah, the one with the poor hole. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. I'm going to try this one. Traumatic reticulo pericarditis. You practice that beforehand? Well done, so nothing wrong with that. Yeah, some people might think practicing hard words before you do a professionally released audio program a good thing. Um. If if a

human swallows a magnet, that's not good. Yeah, you don't want to do that. Cows intestines and stomachs are different than humans. Intestines and stuff mix. And if we swallow, especially more than one magnet, they will basically clamp your entrails together and you will be in big trouble and you'll have to undergo surgery to have them removed. So that's no good. The parents be caution to when your kids are playing with magnets because kids like the swallow things.

You shouldn't swallow. Yeah. And since we talked about electromagnetic pulses being um capable of spurring bone loss man spurning growth, thank you. Um. You would think that people wearing like magnetic bracelets or magnetic insoles are getting some sort of benefit, there's no there's no study that's ever shown that there those things actually help. Although there's a lot of people out there who believe in static magnetic therapy, which is

just a magnet on your skin. There's no pulse or anything going off, and they think that possibly the people who are adherent to this, I think that it's either attracting iron in the hemoglobin that kind of makes sense to improve their sculation, or um, it has some sort of effect on the cellular structure in the body. Uh, and that that's why it helps your back. Insoles help your back, or a bracelet helps your authorritis. Yeah. Um, but again there's no studies that suggest this. Well, it's

big money. Um. Americans alone spent about five million per year on this kind of thing, um, and worldwide about five billion dollars a year on magnetic treatment. So the b Yeah, that's a lot of dough. Uh. And then there was one more thing. Magnetized drinking water is a thing now to treat ailments. And I think that they have not shown in clinical trials that that's been proven either. Most of the minerals in drinking water are not pharo magnetic, so to begin with, we didn't have anything to do

with it. And they they found that UM in clinical trials, a lot of the positive benefits come from placebo maybe or a passage of time, or maybe the fact that these insult cushionings are just better made, more padded. To begin with. There's also apparently um a device that removes um hard water minerals from water using magnets, but apparently, again, it's not really doing anything as far as Consumer Report says in a two year study. Yeah, we had a

water softener when I lived in Yuma. Yeah, and I've never heard of that. I was like what, And it's like, you know, it's in the garage. Just sort of looked like a hot water heater and it's soft in the water whatever that means. Yeah, do do you know what it did? It's soften the water. But I think I remember asking my sister what hard water did and she was like, oh, you could tell the difference, Like I can't remember your skin real dry, I think, And I think, yeah,

I don't remember. So that's hard water everyone. If you want to learn more about that, type the word magnets into the search bar at how stuff works dot com. It will bring up this awesome and exhaustive article. Also, if you're interested in doorbells, type that word in the search part you And since I said search part twice, it means we go straight to listener mail. Yeah, I'm gonna call this military shout out. We don't do shoutouts that often sometimes we do. We get a lot of requests.

I don't feel bad people if we don't do your shout out. Um, this is from Trevor. Hey, guys, my name is Trevor, and yes that it's spelled with to be and not a V. And that is a long story that I'll tell you you would like, but that's not why i'm writing in. I'm currently serving in the US arm Forces and I am in stationed overseas. My wife and I recently welcome my daughter into the world.

Congratulations Trevor and wife, and I got to spend some time with them, although not as much as I would like to obviously, before I had to come back overseas. It's been a really long tough trip being away from them, and even harder on our marriage. I work long hours and when I come home to talk to my wife, I really dread talking about work, and she really hates talking about herself all the time. So that's when I bring up topics that you guys talk about on the show.

I've listened for years and I have turned her onto them as well. And I just want to thank you guys and ask if you could give a shout out to her and listener mail. Her name is Tony with an eye. So Trevor and Tony, Trevor, thanks for your service obviously, and both of you thanks for hanging in there. As a military couple. It's stuff when you're away for that long and uh, it's quite a sacrifice. My sister and her husband. He's a career marine helicopter pilot as

I mentioned before. Yeah, he's been to Afghanistan, right, Yeah, and they go for you know, long tour six and eight months at a time, and you do enough of those in your life and you realize you're spending years away from your husband or wife totaled up and family and the daughters and sons, and so it's tough stuff. So shouting out to you guys hanging there. Yeah, thanks Trevor and Tony. Um, that's pretty awesome that we're like

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