How Central Park Works

over nothing. You're just over there grumpy like I was just doing my thing, and then all I heard from you was nice job, Jerry, So like you conceded, Well, sure you gave it to her. I mean, Jerry one. My friend, uh Billy, the one who I passed away from MS that I talked about. He and I used to do with staring contest. But it was a certain face we had to make and you had to not laugh. That was our staring contest. So we both make this certain face that he invented in the first one of

us to break and laugh, which was always men. Can I see the face? Uh No, okay, that's fine, I've retired. I understand. Um. Okay, Well, thanks for the story. Oh, by the way, very special listener mail coming up today everyone, so stick around for that. Whoa Sarah the amazing eleven year old fans. Yeah, and she's reappeared, everybody. Gosh, so delightful to hear from her. All right, so wow, let's just get through this then, kind of in Central Park.

Central Park. It's huge, it's a New York year. It's square, it's rectangular, Charles, all right, So let's talk about New York. In between eight and eighteen fifty five, the population of New York grew four times its size over that thirty four year period, from people to sixty and they were crowded and people started moving further and further worth like like that was a funny joke I just made. But you just said that the population of New York quadruple

over thirty years. Thirty four years, and you know, New York started at the south as far as people living there, and kept going further and further north. And Manhattan wise, sure, sure, yeah about New York State. Come on, no, no, but I mean there's Brooklyn too, and Poughkeepsie No, no, sure, all the boroughs. Yeah, we're talking about the island of Manhattan. Uh, and things got so crowded that people would gather in cemeteries to socialize. Yeah, that was really weird. So we've

talked about that before. We were like, I don't remember what episode it was, but we saw this stuff. It might have been the subways or something, park or pizza. It might have been tombstones or something. Because we talked about the cemeteries being designed to be park like because

people would go have picnics and stuff. All the material that has to do with Central Park makes it sound like that's all they had available, were cemeteries if they wanted to go hang out and have picnics in green space. So I'm not sure if it was involuntary or if it was designed that way. You're both, but they it was either a tenement or a commercial district or the

cemetery that was what you had if you were outdoors. Yeah, and I think I think it's not necessarily that's all you had, but like maybe all you had that was close and accessible, like the cemetery is, you know, six blocks from my apartment. Um. And also, as you will learn, much of not Northern Manhattan, but yeah, County, Northern Manhattan, Central Manhattan, where Central Park now is was gross swampland swampy rocky. You're not You're not hanging out there anyway. Yeah,

forget the twenties. Let's go back two point six million years ago. Chuco. There was an ice sheet over New York State um that was two miles thick, and it just so happened to terminate the termination edge that that the well, the edge of it went right through the bottom of Manhattan, went through Brooklyn and actually like all the heights and hills and in Brooklyn, that's because that's actual hills, right, because a glacier pushed the ground up there,

because that's where it stopped growing forward. But as these glaciers were moving down south from the north, they were pushing boulders and rocks and stones everywhere and where they ended up and then finally retreated from they left all that stuff, which is why they're boulders in Central Park. There used to be a lot more boulders there, so much so that the land was just basically considered virtually unusable.

Yeah they weren't. That area was not being developed anyway, which made it made it a um a difficult task, but it made it sort of the only place if you wanted to build a seven hundred plus acre park, that was kind of the place to go, right, And so they did want to build a park because again, if you wanted to go outside and hang out and have a picnic, you had to go to Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn. That was basically it. So the people who were living in New York wanted this, but then also

the um upper society, I guess, the super wealthy. We're like, yeah, yeah, this will put our town on the map. Man, London's got Hyde Park, Paris has one. All the great cities have a great park, but there's not one in the United States. Let's build it in New York. Yeah, you know that was was later Like initially they there was no call for a park. I mean, it took forty or fifty years of lots of inhabitants to get this idea. Um the original city plan in eighteen eleven had no

mention of any park. But for you city planning nerds, I know you know this already if you're a city planning nerd. But John Randall Jr. He was the man who laid out that the grid for New York City very famously. I saw a documentary on it. Yeah, it's amazing. He drove these iron I believe iron bolts into the ground with his fingers, his bare hands. It was a surveying bolt and it was to map out that that grid, like every block. Can't you see one? Still there's one

in Central Park that they found it. Don't think they found any other ones in Central Park. But it has nothing to do with Central Park because this is like a good fifty sixty years before they even thought of forty years before they even thought of Central part. It was like maybe this is part of the grid, the street grid. So there's one in a boulder that Um, I mean, I'm not gonna say where it is. You

gotta go find it. Huh. Well, that that's they try to keep it on the download as far as the actual GPS coordinate, like these people that hunted it down and found it. It's like a speakeasy, but sort of just a bolt in this it's a bolt in the stone, and you will become the king of New York if you can pull it out. Oh you should not, dare, nothing should be there for eternity. But there's there's supposedly more of them. Uh, And there are people that go

around and try and find these is kind of neat. Yeah, it is neat, So I guess I'm a city planning at heart. I have to say, Um, I came across the great site called the Femeral New York that documents like all the New York that's been lost and built over and changed over the time. They have a great website. Go check it out because we got some of some

good stuff from them for this episode. All right, So where we left off before my nerdy segue was you were talking about wealthy New York are saying we want to park. Um, there's a more cynical view that was we want to park and that would also greatly increase increase the land value around the park. Um, where we own houses. Yeah, because just like today, the area around Central Park was very well healed um well in some places,

in other places not at all. In the place where this where what Central Park is now, there was a lot of, um, very low income people living there. So you have very rich people surrounding very low income people, which I'm guessing made the low income people very nervous and eventually justifiably so, because the low income people are the ones who had to move to make the park initially for the rich people. Should we go and talk

about that, Why not Seneca Village? Yeah, and well they're Seneca Village and then they're largely Irish and German immigrants in Seneca Village. Uh, well, and all over Seneca Village is only one small part of this immigrant housing that was sort of around the park that. Uh. Of course, when you know, you know what imminent domain is. If the city wants to build the park there, they're going

to get that land one way or the other. Yeah, the New York legislature, the state legislature said, yep, New York City, you can exercise eminent domain over that and take whatever land you want. You got to pay them fair market value, which is up for debate if it was actually fair. But those people have to move, whether they like it or not. Right. So Seneca Village was founded in eighteen twenty five. There was a couple in eighteen twenty four named John Elizabeth Whitehead who bought Now

they owned farmland. Oh that okay, all right, I did. I thought they'd in the land for a long time. Now. They bought farmland between eighty two Street and then between eight and eighteen thirty two started selling it off, and they sold fifty parcels of that land, half of which went to UH people of African descent, which was very unusual at the time to say the least. It was um and so like. Basically, out of this, out of this sale of lots, over this period of time, the

Seneca Village started very quickly. Um. The people who lived there built a house or school, UM, churches, a couple of churches, houses, um and like, this village developed, this community. So there's a couple of things that was remarkable about Seneca Village. One, these were African American landowners, which was very unusual at the time because even at this time slavery was still on the books legal in New York.

And these were um freed or unenslaved African Americans who owned land, which meant if they owned two d and fifty dollars worth of land, they could vote, which would have made them um like like there were a hundred African Americans who could vote at this time, because that's how that's how how few of them actually owned land. Ten percent of those people lived in Seneca Village. So

this is a really unusual spot. But It was also unusual because it was a place where African Americans and European settlers or European immigrants lived together, like lived in this community together. Yeah. Um, but should say you also had to jump through certain other hoops to vote. Wasn't quite as simple as owning land, because that would be, um, I guess too easy for them back then, which was

to say, not easy at all. But they still said, no, there's some other things you still got to do to vote. That we mentioned the other stuff too, uh And big shout out to Andrew william He was the first man of African descent who bought land that would become Seneca Village in September eight Um. But like you said, it was Irish and German immigrants moved in there as well, and they were welcomed and it was by all accounts a multi cultural society that um got along well with

one another, went to the same church. Yeah, that's enormous, pretty amazing, buried in the same graveyard. There was a midwife there who lived in the village and she delivered babies of any ethnicity or race. Yeah. No one knows why it's called Seneca Village on most maps. It's known as Yorkville. Oh, I thought that was a different place. That the Yorkville people moved up to Seneca Village after they got moved out. Wow, Yorkville, there was another york

town that I'm thinking of. But this was on maps as Yorkville. And no one knows if it was a distortion of Senegal or if it might have been code for the underground railroad. It's another theory. Another theory is that it was derogatory somehow because areas where African immigrants would live they would call bad names. Just whatever I see, So who knows. No one knows for sure where Seneca Village came from the name. At least it was interesting. So it sounds like Seneca Village is great. It was.

It must have had fortune smiling on it throughout its time, right. Not true? So Seneca Village was in the way of this this proposed park, right, so let's get We'll just go ahead and cut to the chase here. Seneca Village was. They had to move, which is sad because the community ended. Then when the when the state and the city moved in and said this is this is city land. Now you guys will have to move here some money for your land. Um, the community broke up, it didn't resettle

a reform elsewhere. Was like ephemeral, like that ephemeral New York site. It was. It lasted for a few decades and it was peaceful and harmonious, and then it was gone because they had to move to make way for Central Park. Yeah, it took a couple of years of fighting the law, but eventually the law went out and uh and it was a this called in this article a violent clearing of Seneca Village. Um. Like they basically sent cops in there with their batons and like physically

removed people. Yeah, and there was a a big kind of um media blitz in favor of moving everybody out. They were, you know, derided as a shanty town of squatters and stuff like that, despite the fact that most of the people who lived there are a lot of people who lived their own their land in their houses and had for decades. Then, Um, they were they had just as much right to be there as anybody else.

But the popular opinion of the public at the time was they were just squatting and they should be forced to move. And it was totally justifiable to come in with police batons to clear them off the land. Uh. In two thousand eleven, the sort of weird silver lining is the Institute for the Exploration of Seneca Village History got permission after ten years of trying from the Central Park Conservancy to excavate a couple of sites in the village.

And they went in there and excavated, excavated two different home sites, and on one they found some artifacts, but it was clear that it had been already buried under Central Park. Um, whatever we've been when they built Central Park, right, they had already dug it up when they did. The other one, though, was original, and they found the original soil of Seneca Village at the former yard of Nancy Moore.

Pretty neat and they have two fifty bags of material to analyze now and soil samples and some artifacts to see what life was really like back then. So pretty cool. So they better get to it, that's right, Um, all right, why don't we take a break and then come back and talk about the park? Is it in Boston? Now? Yeah? What happened there? All right? Chuck? So um, I think by eighteen fifty three their head. I think in the eighteen fifties there is like this drumbeat to have a park.

Everybody wanted a park. Yeah. William Cullen Bryant was one of the big names who edited the Evening Post, which is now the New York Post. UM and he was a well known poet at the time and a beloved figure, but he definitely used the Post as a platform to advocate for this green space. Now again, there's a lot of um understanding in this day and age that the wealthiest New Yorkers wanted this park for themselves. Basically, they wanted their new city that they had built to to

rival Paris or London, and it needed a park. They wanted to go show off their carriages in the park, but they also advocated publicly for the park for the working classes, the middle class. They should have a place to to come and hang out. And this is you know, this is America. Of course everyone will be welcome. It's a public park. It will be America's first landscape public park. And so people really kind of got on board with this, and by eighteens, even though that was kind of a lie,

it was at least at first um. But by eighteen fifty three I believe work started. There was a central park that had been designated land had been designated for the Central Park by then, that's right. And they had a contest. Uh. I believe it was the first design contest in the country. A lot of first that said, designer park, you gotta have a parade ground, you gotta have a principal fountain, you gotta have a lookout tower, you gotta have a skating arena. You gotta have four

cross streets because people still got to get through there somehow. Uh. In a in a palace, I'm sorry, a place for or a palace, why not for an exhibition or a concert hall? Very specific rules for this design contest that that was one by two gentlemen, very famous now gentleman named Frederick law Olmstead and Calvert vote or vour vote but definitely not vox vox x is always silent um. Yeah, those two submitted something called the Green's Word Plan and they won. I like that name. And they won for

a couple of reasons. One um uh uh. Frederick law Olmstead was the superintendent of Central Park at the time. Probably didn't hurt no, um, but he wasn't a shoe and I believe his boss I can't remember like what position his boss would have had his boss submitted a plan too. Apparently he and vow um they're playing this greenswere plan that they submitted was just so obviously head and shoulders above every other design that was submitted that it was just clear like from the outset, Yes, these

guys should win, and it was. It's considered a work of art still to this day, although they actually went on to design Prospect Park in Brooklyn. That's supposedly their masterpiece over Central Park is Prospect Park. I mean, I love them both. Yeah, they're both great. I've never been to either of them. That's not true. No, I swear to God, I've never I mean I must have before.

But I mean what we were so okay, I walked like fifteen paces in Central Park, right, it was just like we weren't in there for long, right, That's that's that's really the only thing. Yes, And I've never been in Prospect Park. Boy, I have explored there's so much of it, But I bet you I've explored of the

bottom of Central Park. I haven't been over like Street a lot north of that, but that's where it gets a little more wild anyway, Um, and not wild like the parties coyotes, but a little more, a little more wild as far as the design goes, well, very purposefully, yes, right, Okay, I'm glad you said purposely because supposedly the bottom half of Central Park, so the part of the park itself is meant to evoke New York State. The bottom half is much more urban refined. Um uh, trimmed, I don't know,

And it's meant to reflect New York City. And then as you get further up in the park, it's a little more wild. There's parties and coyotes all. Uh, you know, Poughkeepsie. You've never been to Bethesda Fountain. I don't believe I have. I've seen never been skating, drink so many episodes of Order there I can't distinguish reality from fantasy. Man, I'm like, so like, I'm going into my memory. I'm like, okay, turn,

You're right. Is Lenny Briscoe standing there from TV? Well, I've never seen an episode of that, so I guess we're even what Yeah, you've never seen an episode of the ten thousand episodes of Law and Order. Oh you're missing out, Chris North and um, what was Briscoe's name? Jerry or Bach those two together. Ye, Benjamin Bratt was a close second to the Chris North Jerry or Bach thing. And then it just keeps going on like they were so good at all of them were just amazing. But yeah,

a lot of stuff took place in Central Park. So I feel like I've been there. Here's what you do, man, next time we go to New York. I know that we typically stay downtown. Um, stay up by the park. Well let's stay then, just like get out in it. I've developed a taste for the Upper west Side, but but not the park, like the right You're so close, I will go out. I'll take a helicopter, I will go out of my way. I like Lower east Side and Upper west Side are my two favorites in New

York in Manhattan. Interesting, Yeah, what what you like? Lower east Side? I like it? Oh man, Well, I mean, my very favorite part of New York is the West Village for sure, But I like the Lower east Side. I like it in the East Village still a little grungy. Is there such a thing as the Lower west Side? That wall street? No? Like? Well, I mean wall streets

all the way down. But I would say, like if I mean I don't think it's called the Lower west Side, but like the meatpacking district okay, yeah, like like the high Line that's probably Lower west Side. There's some really great art galleries in the meat package. Oh man, boy.

When I first started going to New York, that was when it was still shady over there, and like you would walk through like blocks and blocks of industrial meatpacking plants to get to like the one bar was open that knowing had heard of, and then Juliani came in clean the place up. Well, just thank god for him, right, Um, So the design of Central Park, the Greensward, Oh yeah, like if you have so much information to go over, I know, should this be a two parter? I don't know.

Let me ask you. Has our podcast gotten more conversational this question aside, hasn't it? I don't know. Okay, I think I think we've always been conversational. Yeah, but I mean, like this seems like a binnacle of conversation. Well, let me say this. I think episodes one through four fifty we're less conversations than But what about what about I

don't know? All right, Uh, the Greensword plan. If you didn't know anything about Central Park, you may be under the misconception that they just sort of squared it off and rake some things around and that, and it was like there's the park and like, let's just protect this green space. But it was highly highly, highly designed, and apparently they used as much explosives as would later be

used at the Battle of Gettysburg. You supposedly more to blast away rock and move that rock, because I remember the glacier that moved all that rock down. That's a big problem when you're trying to build a park, like planted hundreds of thousands of trees, swamps that they couldn't drain. They just building further to build likes. Yeah, so it was and I don't think anyone really thinks that like, oh, they just walled it up and said, now we have

a park. But I don't think I even realized how highly it was designed because and which is probably a testament to their design, because when you walk around, you're just like it all fits right, that's I mean, that's the thing. Like there, they went to a lot of trouble to make it look so naturalistic that you just assume that that's what the land always looked like in Central Park is actually highly managed, highly designed green space that exists in a rectangle that when you're in the

center of it. From my from what I've seen, i'm all in order. You can't tell that you're you're like in the middle of the city and like that, Like the roads none of them are straight, they're all meant to curve. Um. There's meadows that kind of like go out of sight, and there's woods, the ramble, like the whole wood walk and all that. Um, all of it's designed to just completely take you out of the city

and PLoP you into this this world. But it's just so well done and so natural that it seems like that's just what this patch of land always looked like. Well and cool that like even in an era today where that land is the most valuable land on the planet, maybe that they have protected those uh eight hundred plus acres now and said, you're not I don't care how much money you have, you're not gonna lop off. Just no,

why don't we started at nine Street instead? And like, what's it gonna hurt because we could really use that area, but no, it is protected. Um, did you hear? Like the dude bought a two eight million dollar penthouse in Central Park. So yeah, I can't imagine what some infensive house right ever sold in America. So Bethesta Mountain before we before we leave that beautiful, beautiful um work of art. Yeah, Bethesta terris Uh. It is a two tiered um that's

kind of one of the cool things. It's like it sits low and you can walk from from the top half of it and just kind of gaze out upon that in the pond right behind it, and then walk down the stairs and hear live music almost every day of the week, it feels like. But that was designed um uh by Emma Stebbins, an America artist was called the Angel of the Waters, and she was awarded that commission a very famous sculptor, and we gotta gotta acknowledge her.

It's beautiful. One of one of my favorite places in the world. I've seen it. They found a body there one of the episodes of Long So I feel like I've been to the John Lennon Memorial you or was it with you me? Because I'm almost certain that I've been to that. I don't know because the only time I definitely was in Central Park with you. I will um we went with a former co worker who kind of baby sat us on an early marketing trip. Remember

that person. Yeah, that's the only time it was with us, which would explain why you tried to block it from your memory. Did we go to Strawberry Field? I don't remember. Well, then I believe I have been another time and it would have been with you me. Then I think we did not, because if I remember correctly, it was more like this other person was just like, where can we get a pretzel? That kind of thing. All right, So back to the design, before we get to the building,

they needed those four roads. Yeah, this is a big one, which was huge because Olmstead and vow Uh. They sank their roads eight ft below the surface of the park, which really, um, I mean doesn't completely hide them, but they use trees and things to sort of obscure these roads so it wouldn't just be like this another just straight you know, cross street. Uh. And it really blends in nicely with the park, and in fact, one of the lovelier things you can do is drive through the park.

I saw that. I didn't even know that you could, but I went on a Google street view of the road and I was like, oh, yeah, totally. I get it now, like I I got it from reading it. But then I was like, am I understanding this correctly? And yes there are sunken roads through the park, which was another reason why Olmstead and vow one because like so a couple of other designs that I saw. One was, um, all the continents in meadow form interesting okay, interesting, but

also terrible. And then somebody just draw drew a pyramid on a piece of paper, and apparently it was like boom, there's my there's my submission. So like they didn't have the most competition. But when they again, when they were like sunken roads, meadows and stuff like that, it was it was very clear that they had the right vision. Uh you know the movie Arthur, the Dudley Moore movie. Yeah,

they drive through the park. And at the beginning of that movie, because he says, drive through the park a bitman. You know I love Jerry's laughing. You know, I love the park. So do you mean Russell brand? God, you know Hodgman was in that one. That's right. I never saw that it couldn't do it. I saw the Hodgman Park. Just cue that up. No, I just went to the movies waited went in watching Hodgeman. Uh. Twenty thousand workers UM worked on Central Park. UM, Irish laborers, German gardeners. Uh,

stone native stone cutters, native born stone cutters. And uh what do I say? How many two and trees and shrubs were planted? Yep, they moved at the beginning, they moved like a six million cubic feet of earth in and out. Um. Yeah, just the the number of trees and shrubs that were planted is just mind boggling. And UM, it was extremely expensive to UM. There was something like a five million dollar price tag just to acquire the land.

Supposedly that's three times higher than what they projected the actual park was going to cost. Yeah, so that's like a hundred and fifty million dollars today. This is at a time when you know that was that was a bunch of money to back then. UM, But it was also I believe there's a financial panic that really made people say, like, what's this is a crazy amount of money,

what are we doing? But they pressed on. UM. The Civil War broke out during during this the construction, and so construction kind of tapered off a while, and they went and fought the war, and then everybody came back, and when they came back, they brought with them uh an understanding of explosives, so that they were able to blow away rock a lot more easily than they were before the war. Yeah, for sure. And there is a false uh rumor or a myth that is that what

bridge is it? One of them was supposedly made of cannonballs. Yeah, the heart Bridge, I can't remember what it was. Something bow Bridge, the bow Bridge, the bow Bridge? Is it? The bow Bridge? Yeah, it was supposedly up until like nineteen seventy four, like every book you could read said they had giant cannonballs. That has found as as its foundation. Yeah, it's like ball bearings because it was like expanded and contracted so much because of the winters. No cannonballs. They

did a renovation on it, so they're building this thing. Uh. They finally in eighteen fifty nine, in the winter of eighteen fifty nine is when it first opened for public use, and by eight that park received more than seven million visitors a year. There's a lot, but like you said that we need to follow up on. At first, they had a bunch of rules in place that kind of kept it for the wealthier New Yorkers for sure. So like the history of Central Park is actually a history

of class struggle in New York big time. And when it when it opened, initially it was kind of like thanks for the park, chumps, appreciate the taxpayer money. Um. And it was like if there was any kind of event or orchestra or band or anything like that, it took place from Monday to Saturday, because if you were a labor if you were part of the working class,

the only day of the week you had off was Sunday. Um. Carriages were very much welcomed and they made up something like, um, fifty or sixty percent of the visitors arrived in carriages in the first decade were in carriages, but like five percent of New Yorkers were wealthy enough to afford carriage at all, right, exactly. Um. So basically it was just kind of like a stay out kind of thing. They had a ban on group picnics. Yeah, that was a

big one. So like all these you know, big immigrant families that love to get together in large groups, none of that couldn't do it. I go to the cemetery. You couldn't ride around in a work card, so like yeah, like if you had an ice truck, yeah, sorry, Like you want to just put your family in it to take him out for a Sunday drive. Nope, none of those. You had to have a nice carriage. So there were always all these rules, um that were enforced for a

little while. And then finally, um, the rest of New York, the other New Yorkers said this is b s. Yeah, let's let's loosen these up a little bit, and they finally petitioned for some changes in Central Park. Finally, in the eighteen seventies became a true public park. Yeah, Like little by little, that's when it started ease on some of these rules. Um. Apparently Olmstead was not a fan of children trapesing all over the grass, so he would have been none too pleased with family picnics and all

of it on the Great Lawn. Um. Obviously that changed over the years as well. Uh. And since you know, mid eighteen seventy five and on, it's been a series of um, progressive minded people that have opened up the park and democratized it over decades and decades. But it's also been kind of this push and pull, like, okay, how much for the people, should we add some like a swimming pool, yeah yeah, or like some like should

we put the baseball stadium here? That was a proposal at one point in time, and they're like, no, let's not do let's not go that far towards the people. It's fields, and they said, okay, maybe one or two of those, and then it would kind of go back, you know, like, um, you know, the people have screwed it up a little bit, so let's take it over

and make up some more rules. And it just keeps going back and between too much for the people, and the people are taking it for granted, too too strict, and we need to kind of loosen it up a little bit. Just kind of went back and forth like that, and it's still doing that today. Yeah. And also I think, um, like the greensword plan was so revered. It was sort of like the Constitution. It was like for decades and decades they would go back to that original plan and

think about, like, well, this isn't what they intended. Yeah, until Progressive sort of got on board and we're like, well we can actually alter this, keep the spirit of the park and just make it more accessible because softball fields are great there's a really good um example of all of this in uh, the Casino story. Yeah, so there was this thing called the Ladies Refreshment Saloon. I think there was an original Calvert Vo building, one of

the buildings he built. It looked like, um, an upstate New York cottage, a very like a wealthy person's cottage house in New York. Is beautiful little house. And originally, if you were a woman who was unescorted by a man to Central Park, this was the place you could go and like get a drink and relax and chill out because no men were allowed. It was just the Ladies Refreshment Saloon, right, And then over time men started to be allowed and it became like an actual restaurant.

And then in the twenties, I think New York got a mayor who was basically a gangster named Jimmy Walker, gentleman Jimmy Walker, and he was not Jimmy Walker, different Jimmy Walker, um. And he was super in favor of speakeasies and like gambling and all this stuff. And he helped make the casino or the this refreshment saloon into what was known as the Casino. There wasn't actual gambling there. But it was like the hottest nightclub in New York

was in this original eighteen sixties building UM in Central Park. Yeah, he said, let's take the Ladies refreshment salon and make it the opposite of that, right exact. And so during the day it was a restaurant that was open to all, but it was basically like a Neiman Marcus cafe, where like the prices were so outrageously high that the average person couldn't afford this stuff. It was like coffee for forty cents a cup at a time when coffee was

like a nickel everywhere else. So, you know, eight times the normal rate for just a cup of coffee, which is kind of like what's not good for a public park. But it was open everybody until night came, and then it was an exclusive nightclub, like you could not get

in unless you were on the list. And there was like partying like this for years throughout the Roaring twenties, and then finally when Jimmy Walker was no longer mayor he was toppled for corruption, the casino became a symbol for the people taking back New York and their park, and so UM Mayor LaGuardia appointed a guy named Robert Moses who became the parks commissioner for decades, and Robert Moses lobbied to tear the casino down. Yeah, he did

a lot, Robert Moses. He built twenty playgrounds on the periphery. He renovated the zoo that I think had been around since eighteen seventy one, and it was and still is very popular. Um he was the first one to accommodate automobiles. He had an athletic fields, UM benefactors private benefactors in the fifties and sixties, which was during his tenure. Um helped contribute to the skating rank, the woman rank, Alaska ranking pool, the boat houses, the chess and Checker's house,

ball fields on the Great Lawn. Like he really made a lot of changes for like the people, right, So, yeah, they took the park back and he actually he was a huge UM advocate for the park and it had kind of started to fall into decay around the turn of the twentieth century, and when he came in in nineteen thirty four, he just completely turned it around, like you said, added all this stuff, but also renovated it and Sally restored it back to its original glory. And

so Robert Moses was great. He saved Central Park the first time, the first time, but when he left in what did you say, Um, the park really sorry to follow the pieces because there was no champion there like Robert Moses. But there's also no plan in place, and there was also no money. New York. Basically, the way that I saw it, New York abdicated its stewardship of Central Park. It basically said this is whatever, We're not paying attention to this anymore. And it went to poop

very quickly. All right, well, let's take a break there, uh, and we'll come back and finish up from ninety to today, don't alright, so the park is going downhill in the nineties, sixties, and seventies. Um, we mentioned a few reasons. Another big reason was that there was no no ownership. No one had ultimate responsibility. Like I feel like the buck was being passed all over the city. No one was happy about it, but there was no body in place to say, no,

this is we gotta fix this now. And if you look up pictures of Central Park in the seventies, man, and I mean it was like all of New York. It wouldn't looked like a waste land. It was like the warriors in there. Yeah, like these classic places like the boat House and the Skating Rinker, like graffitied and likes everywhere. It's just hard to believe broken all the place, the being vandalized. It's like it is, it's it's so sad.

It is. It's sad to see, but it's also unbelievable to see now that you know what Central Park looks like, just how bad it was in the seventies and eighties

and the sixties. It was actually there wasn't like a Robert Moses champion and it was starting to go downhill, but it was nothing like it was when they finally in the seventies were just like whatever, forget it and um it was kind of like that broken windows theory of like policing, where once once you once you reach this tipping point, as it were, um, it just kind of all just turns to garbage. And that's Central Park in the seventies and eighties was a great example of that.

And it was considered like a really dangerous place that you did not want to be after dark. And there was that very famous Central Park five case, and everybody just found it so easy to believe that some teenagers had brutally attacked a woman and left her for dead because it was Central Park. Yeah, I mean, you can't even be in there at certain hours now, like they

cleared the park out. Uh. And I know this because I spent the night in the park for Shakespeare in the Park tickets and you you line up, you hang out and party with people in line until I can't remember what time it was, but something like two am, and the cops come around and they say, everybody get up, and they walk you in order out onto the sidewalk right there on. I don't know if it was the east or west side, but they basically moved the entire

line out of the park. And then then you're sleeping on the sidewalk all night, and then in the morning they come back and they move you all back into the park in line, and everyone just does it must have been a hell of a Shakespeare play. It was the most legendary. What was it, the Seagull? I never told you about that, The seagull. That's like Chekhov or something. Yeah,

it doesn't mean everything is Shakespeare. It's just Shakespeare in the Park kind of makes it sound like it would be No, that's just the name of the program, but it's uh this Yeah, And it was The Seagull with Kevin Klein and Meryl Streep and John Goodman and Christopher Walking, Philip Seymour Hoffman, George the Call, Natalie Portman Wow, and there was like two more directed by Mike Nichols. It

was like one of the most legendary performances ever. And that's the one where I saw James Lipton wearing a inside the actor's studio jacket. It's like, you don't need to wear that. It's like Glenn Danzig walks around wearing Danzig shirts. Did you know that? Oh, I'm sure sleepless Danzing shirts. So anyway, that's what happens. They move you out at night, so it's kind of fun. I highly recommend everyone doing that at some point in their life. That's a heck of a play man. Yeah, it was.

It was really something else. So, uh, Central Park is in Decay And in nineteen seventy four, UM a man named George Soros who was saved the day the devil to some people in this country. George Soros and Richard gilder Um under working with a Central Park Community fund, underwrote a management study in nineteen seventy four by E. S. Savas, who was a professor of public systems management at Columbia. And this was a big study that basically came away

with two big clear initiatives. One was like, we need a CEO essentially like one person, one person in charge so everyone can't go like I thought, he was gonna fix the thing. One person who who has like not unchecked authority, but just basically like their their boss, their decision is final. Yeah. So that was the first thing. And then the second thing was a central park board of guardians to oversee all this stuff. Um the guy suggested the Guardian Angels, but was shouted down, Oh man,

we should do one of those guys. Uh. Nine. Though, Elizabeth Betsy Barlow, who is now UM Rogers was a Yale educated urban planner and writer, became that central park administrator, which was essentially the de facto CEO that they were looking for. UM. And then she is the one. So many people did so much great work over the years, but she really did. She was the first one to create a public private partnership. UM too get well healed

New Yorkers involved. Yeah, and they apparently were um bolstered by early successes. Like they went in and one of the first things they did was they created a zero tolerance policy for graffiti, garbage, anything broken. If the if anybody saw anything wrong with the park, you were supposed to phone it in. And they just responded immediately and fixed it, like literally phone it in, not just phone

it in right right, right, yeah, I'll be right there. Um. They and they would fix it, and they they very quickly. It was that kind of thing where like, if the park's already clean, you're probably going to be less likely to litter or less likely to spray paint. But if it's already spray painting, there's already some garbage, you maybe a little and then you hit that like snowball thing.

They kept the snowball from ever growing by being just completely vigilant and they attracted a lot of attention, improved like, oh, this actually will work, and so it's more money started coming in to kind of resurrect the park. Yeah, And in nineteen eighty um she uh brought together a couple of groups, the Central Park Task Force in the Central Park Community Fund to finally merge and create the Central Park Conservancy, which was that citizen based board of guardians

that they called for with that initial study. So they have a plan in place. Now things are getting way way better. UH. And then in n UH an arrangement between the Conservancy and the City of New York UM formalized that public private partnership. UH. And there was a man named Douglas Blonch Blonsky, the blons who assumed her title of administrator, and he was the one that created

this really innovative management. Innovative in its simplicity, I think, because he was like, here's what you need to do, is we need to make it smaller. So he divided Central Park up into forty nine zones, and every single zone had its own gardener and its own staff. And if you look at the size of Central Park, it that's like probably a few two or three square blocks maybe per team. Anybody can handle that. But that's the

way to do it, you know, you make it smaller. Well, there's also accountability, to have the accountability at the top. And then ever since then it's been humming. There's a UM. The big thing moving forward is a three hundred million dollar. Um, what do you call it, like a like a fund to keep it going in definitely, Yeah, which is funny because that's double the original price in adjusted for inflation.

That is funny. And in March of last year, uh, Elizabeth Betsy another Betsy Betsy Elizabeth Betsy Winberg Smith became president CEO of the Conservancy. And all of these people that do us do it because they love the park. I mean, I'm sure she's paid and stuff, but they're not volunteers. But it's not like uh, I mean, it's a good position to be in if you want to be among the elite of New York. But all of

these people were nature lovers and like park advocates. Yeah, I mean, clearly, that's kind of the proof is in the pudding, because I mean they've they've done a pretty great job in bringing Central Park back, especially if you go look at those pictures from the seventies and eighties and then think about it today. Yeah. Man, Yeah, you see a picture from five, you see a law in order from totally different. I just got one more thing.

Sheep Meadow used to have sheep. Yeah, the tavern on the Green, the restaurant used to be where they housed the sheep, and they were put there very purposely by Olmstead to keep the grass cut, but also for aesthetics. Yeah, he said, all this green everywhere, bring in white and black sheep. They're like as opposed to you know what's funny he he made his his arc is a master landscape designer. He was like a journalist and a farmer. That's what his background was. He became the Central Park

superintendent because he needed a job. Amazing, that was it. I have one last one. The Central Park Zoo started out as an animal menagerie because people would take unwanted exotic pets to the arsenal and they just ended up starting accumulating pets. I think it started with some swans and a black bear cub is how the whole thing started. If you want to know more about Central Park, there's a ton of stuff. It's so much. This could have

been a three parter easily. You could do a lot worse than going to ephemeral New York and looking or go to the park. Yeah, I guess you could do that. Um. And since I said ephemeral New York, it's time for a very very special listener mail. Yeah, this is long, and I'm gonna make it shorter, even though I've already made it shorter. But you might remember, many years ago we had Sarah, the amazing eleven year old super fan. We got a lot of letters from read some of

them money air. Then Sarah disappeared from us, and uh, in those ten years, we would remark occasionally like whatever happened to Sarah? She got in touch last week and it was literally one of the more exciting emails I've ever gotten. Uh. She says, Hey, guys, listen to can you can your Grandfather's Diet Short in your Life? And this was from a while ago. It's like ten Yeah, but that was a select episode. She heard it as a select and said, and heard the thirteen year old

version of myself get a shout out. Well, guys, I'm now twenty one. It's been entirely too long, and I owe you an explanation. Um. She said, her iPod broke way back then, a likely story, that's like the modern Yeah, I broke, so her iPod broke. Um. It took a while to get back to get the smart phone. Once she got the smartphone, she listened here and there, but she said she was really busy with school. She's like, I lost my self proclaimed title of super fan, even

though I dearly loved it admired you uh the entire time. Um. The fun facts I learned throughout the years also came incredibly handy during my quiz Bowl career and throughout high school. So yes, I am very much a nerd ha U. Currently I'm a senior in college, which is even crazy for me to say back to being a regular listener. And boy did I miss you guys. I am so sorry we lost touch, um, she said, I just want to sincerely thank you for continuing this podcast and consistently

bringing new topics to light. You were also kind to that a little eleven year old version of myself. Uh. You inspired me to pursue every opportunity I was given to learn. You showed me that there is always a story behind everything, and then I should always ask questions and she she got it. Man. Uh. That has always stuck with me and greatly shaped the person I am today.

It's been amazing to watch you all achieve what you have. Um. So she graduated in two thousand fifteen, went on to study English and psychology at a small private liberal arts school. She traveled to Ghana. She traveled to Scotland to study literature. The Scotland Ghana you want she set. Aside from travel, I had a chance to lead on our campus. Was elected student government president. This is all leading to a like, Hey, this is what happens when you listen stuff. You should know.

This is advice for kids. Um, weirdly have to thank you for spurring the beginning of that leadership. It might seem like a weird thing to attribute to your podcast, but I truly have to thank you for helping develop my critical thinking skills early on in my education. You guys truly fostered uh a mentality within me. The education is always a strength. So how about that man that's she's going to grad school now? She doesn't know where. She's applied all over the map, and she says it's

a little scary. She'll do great. She says, I feel like you're all old friends that I've lost connection with and I'd love to fix that. Sarah, twenty one year old super fan, thank you so much for getting back in touch. She gave a little picture, she said, a picture like this is me now, just adorable, adorable. Thank

you very much. For writing in Sarah, And I would say, if you're like Sarah and you want to get in touch, but nobody's really like Sarah, but the original eleven year old super fan now turned twenty one year old successful um fan. Yeah, it just goes as well. One day we will read an email called Sarah the middle aged super fan and I will be like a million close to sixty. Yeah, which is so weird. I won't be sixty now, you'll be just a few years behind me. Well,

thank you against Sarah. And if you want to get in touch with us, so let us know how we impact your life. We'd love hearing that. Stuff. You can go on to Stuff you Should Know dot com. Check out our social links. I'm at the Josh Clark Way dot com. You can send us an email the Stuff podcast how stuff Works dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is that how stuff works dot com? Hm, hm,