How Apartheid Worked

people can't tell me what to do. I think your African or um is a little rough, you know, on the edges, especially compared to your Italian. Sure that's easy though, but um, that's no problem. So do you want to say a word in African er? I think I know that you know one apartoteid yes, and it means a partners in Africana and yeah in Afrikaans, sure, which is the language? Yeah? Well where did I get African er? Uh? That is the person is an Africana the speak Afrikaans.

So in Afrikaans, apartheid means a partners and you capitalize it. And the reason you capitalize it is because for about fifty years, a little less than fifty years, it was a national policy in South Africa and it was brutal and awful, and the whole world said, you know what, South Africa, we judge you, and for good reason. Yeah. I remember being a kid, and we'll get to this later. But the artist against Apartheid was the first time I ever heard that word as a young teenager, Bano telling me,

don't play some city. Sun City was built in eighty one. Okay. Sun City, first of all, is a resort in South Africa. And you know, little Stephen Van's aunt of the Sopranos and the E Street Band wrote the song called Ain't Gonna play some City, got all these people to sing on it, sort of in the It was like you two to Curtis Below, to um Africa Boombada to Peter Gabriel did like so many people are on that song, all these Miles Davis was on there like everybody was.

It was a good song. Um, it was a good ish song, Okay, but it was like I ain't gonna play some City. And not only was it a song, but it was like a movement and in an agreement, like a creed that you were kind of signing. So who played. I saw that Elton John and Queen and Linda Ronstadt played during apartheid, Sinatra played. I mean yeah, they knew ahead of time that there was like a you know, Sun City was not a good place to

be and it was in apartheid. It was a good place to be if you were in a pro apartheid South African with a lot of money, because it was a very nice resort and you want to gamble and they would get big name acts. But um, if you went there and played there and made money there, even if you didn't make money there, actually, um, the you when had an anti apartheid unit and they kept track of who was playing there and they would publish a blacklist and there was a huge, huge um backlash against it.

Most people were just like sorry, sorry. If you said publicly, I'm very sorry that I went and played Sun City, I'm not gonna go to apartheid South Africa again. Um, as a performer, they would take you off the list, but it was still like that. It's really smacked of McCarthyism because they used a blacklist for suspected communists in the entertainment industry. And this is the same thing, but in this case, in this case they were on the

side of right, the black listeners were. But but yeah, so, um, if you went to Sun City, you ended up on this list. And actually, really interestingly, Tim Reid Venus fly Trap, he went down to South Africa with Howard Hussman, Johnny Fever w Carapean Cincinnati because w CA Arapian Cincinnati was

a really huge hit down there. Yeah, so they had Venis and uh and Johnny Fever come down and Tim Reid is one of the first African Americans invited to apartheid South Africa to not perform like this was just a publicity tour, and he spent the whole time speaking out against apartheid. And he still ended up on the UN's blacklist because he received like a per diem or something during his his publicity tour there, and he uh,

he spoke out. There's a Chicago Tribune article from the time, from like night six that interviews him and he was a really smart guy speaking out against this blacklist, or at the very least, like how um clumsy it was that they weren't using a scalpel at all. They were just like, oh, you went to South Africa and they gave you some money and now you're blacklisted. He's like, I was speaking out against apartheid, Like you get what are you doing? So let's talk. Let's talk apartheid. Let's

where did this come from, Chuck. I mean, it's it was instituted in but it was way older than that. Yeah, racial suppression was going on sort of from the seventeenth century on in Africa, or at least in Southern Africa. And it wasn't South Africa at the time. We should point out. We'll get to that though. Um. But the Dutch came there in the seventeenth century just as a little stop off station. They wanted to set up on

the Spice Route Dutch East Indy Company. They're like, we need a place to kick back a little bit and rest on this trip. And so I was about to say, they said, do you mind? They I don't think they asked. They did not. They just sort of set up shop there. And they were not there to colonize um. Initially, it was just just to set up a station and um. But the because they were Europeans, they did bring um along with them. The thought that white people are supreme

to black people with them, that's right. Um, So that notion is immediately set up, like, hey, we're better than you. You can't tell us what to do. We have guns, and uh, we're more quote unquote advanced if if you following those European lines of what advanced is. And because they were Europeans during the Age of Exploration, they said,

let's colonize anyway, let's do it. So they did, um, and they started setting up settlements that weren't united but we're basically the Dutch and then later on the British into a much lesser extent of French. UM basically saying just undergoing a land grab that involved basically taking land from the indigenous people there and then setting up farms. Sounds like another country. It sounds really familiar, doesn't it. Yeah.

They basically would try and negotiate for land and if that broke down, they were like, all right, we're taking it, right, and then they would take the land, turning and turning the land into plantations, start growing stuff for export, and then the people would say, um, we're starving out here, and the Dutch people would say, well, come on in and work for us for like next to nothing at the very least, you'll live long enough to till our fields.

And that's how the whole thing began. Yeah, basically they would end up killing the fields that they at one point owned themselves or used themselves as slaves. And this was the Dutch at first until about the mid seventeen hundreds.

Then uh, British activity picked up in the region and um they uh you know at the time, it was I think you said, just like various separate societies farming, live in a grarian lifestyle, ranching, hunter gathering, and then the Dutch and then the Brits came down there with their own slaves and took the land and said, you know what, We're gonna battle with each other over this area.

And eventually Britain gained control in the early nineteenth century from the Dutch even but the Dutch were still there sort of running things. Is that how it worked. Yeah, there were way more Dutch settlers than British, but the British had managed to gain control of it and know it was a British colony and they said, but slavery is not legal, no, but you can be uh you you are a servant. Basically and we're going to codify this. And now for the first time in this area, UM,

blacks were legally subservient to whites. So instead of master slave, that was master servant. But big. And even though the British it was a British colony, it was still basically run and operated by the Dutch. That's right, UM, And some Dutch didn't like that, so they pressed further and further inward and UM ultimately uh, creating more and more of an area for the future South Africa by dominating

these tribes with guns, germ, steel, you know that whole thing. UM. And then around about eighteen sixty something really big happened. A little bit into the interior. They discovered diamonds and gold and said, oh, we're staying. Yeah, and they said, you know, we know you love farming and all that good stuff, but we think you'd be much happier working in a mine for next to nothing. At the very least, it would make us happier if you were working in

our minds, that's right. And you know what we're gonna um brutalize you. We're gonna segregate you. Uh, We're gonna give you the most dangerous shot and humiliate you and do cavity searches and you know what, Now you have to have a passbook to go to your job as a minor, and uh, you're gonna be paid a lot less. And the passbooks. The reason we mentioned that is it soon became a staple that you couldn't go anywhere you

weren't supposed to go without a passbook. Right. It was initially started as a work thing though in the in the minds of South Africa, that's where apartheid was born. And a lot of the apartheid techniques like like you say, pass books, um, and just the general degradation of blacks in South Africa area. Um, it all began. I mean it was already in place, but just the brutality of it, I take it really picked up in the minds. Um. So that was what the eighteen sixties and that was

pretty much the way it was. Um. It was a British colony in South Africa. It was. It wasn't South Africa yet, but it was a British colony, Dutch re ruling it. The blacks, Um, they're the African the indigenous indigenous natives, um were on the losing end. Of all of this in a very brutal fashion. And then in the early nine hundreds and I think nineteen o eight, um, the people who were running this British colony, the Dutch, said hey man, we want a little more authority here. Yeah,

And they were at this point they were Afrikaaner. Like in the past century, they had changed a lot. They had this weird hybrid language that developed, and they were not they were Dutch in heritage, but they were starting to become a new people in southern Africa, which is African or they probably felt about as Dutch as like you and I feel British, right, you know, yeah, that's a good point. But yeah, so yeah, they were like

a whole new, whole new group. But the basis of this was that they were a whole new group who had grown up in charge of another group and they wanted to make sure that they had a free hand in dealing with these other sub classes. Um. And also I want to say, like, any time you hear me say subclasses, I'm making air quotes, everybody. Yeah, and when I say big difference between master slave and master servant,

I was being sarcastic. We're anti apartheid, yeah, okay. Um, so the the these Afrikaners running the show sent a new constitution to Britain, and Britain said, okay, go ahead, Um, we're gonna go ahead and grant this. It's going to be called the South Africa Act of nineteen ten. And with that, British decreed that the state of South Africa was born phil British colony, but it was officially under African or control. That's right. And uh, oh yeah, one

other thing black people can't hold off as ever. Yeah, that's like the first of what would be many, many, many restrictions. And that's a huge one, because all of a sudden, you have an all white boye made up of white people who feel that this is their white man's burden to keep you from being shiftless and lazy and thieving and just killing yourselves and cutting off your own hands and killing one another. It's up to the

white man to make sure you don't do that. And we're going to keep you, keep you safe by subjugating you. And the first way we're gonna do that is to just have an all white government. That's right. And uh and the second thing we're gonna do is we're gonna take your land because even though we only make up of the population as white people, we need the land. So we're gonna shuffle seven I'm sorry of the people on to seven percent of the land, really crappy land,

really bad land. And UM. That was under the leadership of General Louis or Louis or Louis both a first Prime Minister of South Africa, and the Native Lands Act of nine basically was when they said, you know what, We're gonna move all these communities. If we kill you along the way or you die, no big deal, if your whole life is just didn't no big deal. And we're essentially going to shove you onto these tiny parcels of crappy land. So that began what's called the segregation period.

But you can't go here, this is white land. UM. And after during the segregation period between the Nine Lands Act in the fifties or UM, a bunch of other things happened for the UM the blacks who are who came to be called Bantus Indigenous Africans UM. They lost the right to vote in the thirties. In the twenties, they had lost the right to unionize and basically they're just being pushed further and further out of a meaningful

participation in society. Yeah. They they they tried to hamper their access to education even early on, and fired them from jobs even if they were totally more skilled than a white worker. Yeah, if you were a skilled craftsman and you had apprenticed, you couldn't you couldn't carry out your craft any longer. But legally they could go in and be like, you know what, there's a white guy who we think is better for this job, so you're fired. Yeah,

because that was the government, right. Um, and this was even before the African or Nationalist Party. This is before apartheid officially. That didn't come around until Wayne Again, with an all white government that had been in power for thirty five years. This extreme right wing, basically a fringe movement, the Afrikaan or Nationalist Movement, came to power and they

officially instituted what we call apartheid. There are apartheid policy starting in ninety eight, but really kicking off in nineteen fifty with the what the Population Registration Act, right, Yeah, and this was under Prime Minister DF Malin at the time, and with the Population and Registration Act is when they created officially the Bantu like you said, and named the

indigenous black population. Uh. There. So there's Bantou, there's white, and and there's colored, which is mixed race, and you have to register yourself and be legally classified as one of these three races. Everyone was everybody. If you're white, goodness for you, Yeah, because you've got of the land. Yeah. If you're Bontu or uh, mixed race, then bad luck

for you. Right and then um at first Indians were left out and Indians, I guess because it was a British colony, uh, since India was also a British colony. South Africa was kind of a place to be force for Indians, including Gandhi, who was one of the early protesters of the segregationist idea um and was imprisoned for I think twenty years in South Africa. Yeah, he was, or he was imprisoned while he was there for twenty years. He spent part of it in prison for protesting segregation

of course. But then so ultimately Indians were excluded as foreigners. But then just to keep problems from happenings, to keep the bureaucracy going, they were added as a fourth race. Um, you could not get married between races. If you were Bantu and loved with someone of mixed race, you couldn't even marry them. Very restrictive. And then next came another act called the Group Areas Act, and this really escalated the segregation um because now you needed past books essentially

passports to go from one area to another. Some you weren't even allowed in. And um that even went further in the Bantu Homelands Homelands Act of ninety one, which basically said, you know what, wherever your your area is in South Africa, that is now your homeland. And you're not even South African anymore. Yeah, if you're if you're bannt to you live in this area. If you're a banned too married to a colored person, the your colored spouse lives in a different area. Yeah, your family's just

ripped apart. Now, well they took away. Basically they said, you're not in South Africa. You're and we're allowing you to stay here. Basically if you stay in this one area that your past book says that you can stay in, right, because you can't stay here because you're not alone, you're

no longer a member of this country. Believable, Like I drew exclamation points next to that one, just because like they literally moved in, took over these people and then said, you're not even a part of this country right that we have established. So they have they've been pushed out of participation in society. The um. Anybody who's not white,

Um is now forced onto a reservation essentially. Um. And then they really kind of started indoctrinating the next generation with the Ban to Education Act of nineteen fifty three. And basically if you were banned too, you would be put into a school where the student teacher ratio was about fifty six to one on average. You went to school three hours a day. Um they did in two shifts.

A teacher would see two different classes, Um, three hours for one and three hours for another, and you would be taught basically how um they the history of your people was that you were you were kind of dumb and meandering, and you hadn't really done anything with the land before and um, how you were reliant on the white people who came to rescue you and your people. Um. You were taught how you could work in a factory.

And that's about as good as it got for you. Um. And basically they were taught to be servile and better servants to the the white um afrikanners. Yeah. Well that was the plan at least, but it backfired because in the nineteen fifties and sixties, instead of becoming more docile, they rallied and became uh more upset uh and basically

he raged against the machine. In the nineteen fifties and sixties, at the same time that the U s Civil rights movement was going on, the same thing was kind of starting to happen in South Africa, and it was the beginning of what would be you know, thirty years end of apartheid. Yeah, I guess you could say, yeah, um people got mad, yeah, and rightly so. Yeah. And this

wasn't just uh indigenous people. There were also white liberals at the time, just like here in the US, that were very much against apartheid and also you know suppressed when they tried to like you know, raise awareness or fight back. Right because one of the things about um, the apartheid government, it wasn't just racial segregation. Um. They were, like I said, extremely right wing and they were very

much into isolationism. They kept a very tight control over what their their population, white or non white, UM had access to as far as the news went music music. Have you seen searching for sugar Man. It's a good one, UM, and it was you saw what they did with like there was a record on there was a song on his record Rodriguez yea and m. He scratched the song the vinyl so they couldn't be played. They did stuff

like that. UM just won the Academy Award. And we don't want to spoil anything though, because it unfolds in a really great, mysterious way. It's good. It's a good documents, great documentary, and that's what inspired this decision to do this. Actually, right, UM, So the government was fairly close to total terrian, Like if you descended against the government, white, black, otherwise you

would go to jail. UM. But despite this, and despite the brutality that the police were engaged in, like UM there was a for example, there was a strike in v Unarmed black miners went on strike, peaceful protest. A thousand people were killed by the police. Yeah, they would just open fire on crowds. Yeah. So this is right, and this is one of the reasons why UM, I think people were so so resistant to being indoctrinated into apartheid mentality. Um because of the in part because of

the brutality of the police tactics. But so let's talk about this UM. In the sixties, Uh, like you were saying, when the U s Civil rights movement was was really starting to brew and and take shape, UM, Nelson Mandela emerged as a member of the African National Congress, huge organization, and then there was also the Pan African Pan Africanist Congress, and they were basically peaceful protest groups that were set up to counter the apartheid philosophy. Yeah, and like we said,

even though it was peaceful, it didn't matter. The Sharps Sharpville massacre in nineteen sixty thousand black Africans left their pass books at home and said, you know what, We're just gonna go to the police station and turn ourselves in because we don't have our pass books. What are you gonna do processes all. No, they're gonna open fire on the crowd, killed sixty nine people, uh, wounded hundreds apparently.

And then they said, you know what, We're going to ban public gatherings then, and they also banned the African National Congress in the Pan Africans like, you're all illegitimate now and Nelson Mandela, you're going to jail, not yet now yet they drove the Pan Africanist Congress in the African he went to jail, right, but in nineteen sixty

they drove him underground. And as a result, these groups went from being peaceful to becoming actually they formed paramilitary wings and Mandela um led the African National Congresses guerilla wing. And he actually later on said, yeah, we were we were guerillas and possibly terrorists, and like there were human rights violations by my group and I regret that. Yeah, but they were good theroists right. Um, but he was jailed for for uh, we'll send it to a life

in prison and remain in prison for thirty years. And most people, unless you're super young, remember Nelson Mandela for Nelson Mandela being a rallying cry up until like freaking eighties, which is ridiculous that this is still going on then, but um, that's the way it went. There. Um another protest, peaceful Soweto. Um. This time it was students and it was because they were trying to make Afrikaans the primary language in Black upper schools, even though not many of

them even spoke it. So what good is that? So they went to protest this and against open fire. Two children were killed this time and it started a bunch of riots and in the end three thousand people up to three thousand says between five seventy five and three thousand, probably depends on who you're asking. Uh, we're killed by

the police. Um. And again just following the same script that they did with sharp Ville in nineteen sixty, the government said all right, all any distent groups are completely banned, you know, outright um, and then included the South African Students Organization led by a guy named Steve Ico. And Steve Ico had he was medical student. He was like thirty,

I think when he died. UM. He had found what was called the Black Consciousness movement and it was basically like, uh, it was teaching African self worth, countering everything that was taught through the Bantu Education Act and everything you learned in school, UM, African self reliance, economic self reliance, UM. And it had spread outside of Africa. He was a pretty big figure and he was pulled over with the Buddy and a bunch of um Anti apartheid UH pamphlets,

and the police arrested him. They beat him, they left him with the head wound, and he died of his injuries. Um and when Steve Ico died that was that changed everything. Yeah, he was detained under the Terrorism Act nineteen sixty seven, which basically said, if we suspect you being a terrorist, we can detain you for up to sixty days, and then we can renew that sixty days, by the way, indefinitely without telling anyone, without releasing who's there. And it

was basically a way to make the people disappear. Usually if you were detained under this act, you were never heard from again. And Ico eventually found himself in a coma and UH because of torture. And then eventually they said, after about three weeks, you know, we should probably take the guy to a prison with a hospital at least. So they threw his naked body in the back of a truck to take him to a hospital and he died. They said it was a hunger strike. It was actually

brain hemorrhage from being beaten upside the head. And years later Denzel Washington would play him and cry freedom, and Peter Gabriel wrote the awesome song Ko and Um Tribe called quest has Um Steve Beco song. Yeah, stir it up. Yeah. Um, so the Souto uprising, the and the police killings of those two children, UH was followed right on the heels by Steve Beco's death, which was a big deal, like

around the world. Yeah, it was the UM the US ambassadors South Africa, I think and probably was a huge protest move went to Steve Beco's funeral. Um there was Yeah, Steve Beco dying was that was a big deal. Yeah, and we should shout out to Helen Susman, shout out. She was the one voice of reason uh in South Africa's all white parliament. She was the one voice anti apartheid voice. And she was like if you look her

up today, mean, she's an amazing, amazing woman. She just died a few years ago, but she was at the funeral and um, yeah, this is when it became like a thing around the world like hate. You know what, We're gonna start pulling our embassies out of South Africa, We're gonna start boycotting UH sanctions against South Africa economic sanctions. And this was happening with the United States Great Britain, other Western nations, and basically South Africa became you know,

the evil Empire, like exposed. It was pretty cool by the by. Finally, in nine six the US Congress got its act together enough to pass the Comprehensive Anti Apartheid Act, and it banned any new investment, UM, any new business setting up and dealing in trade with South Africa. Um. South Africa was banned from doing business here in the U S. So South African airlines couldn't land at any US airport. Um. Yeah, big time. The rand fell in value is a big deal. Um. And Reagan vetoed it actually,

and his veto was overridden by Congress. That's how that's how much, that's how badly they wanted to do it. Um. And it was a very important thing. This was right in the middle of Um. This is like when we were kids. You remember that, like that that Keith Hearing um poster from South Africa. Um. There was like the income place, Sun City, remember that one. Yeah, it was a there was a it was a big deal. The

whole world was opposed to South Africa. UM. There was this great thing called divestment that actually may have really been a thing that killed apartheid in South Africa was the deal. So divestment is and it's going on now. But um, with apartheid, it was basically where people like it started with colleges. Colleges have huge endowments that are heavily invested in all sorts of stuff. And they said, you know what, we're not going to invest in anything

that has anything to do with South Africa anymore. Coca Cola, if you're doing business in South Africa, we're not gonna invest in any whoever. Um. And so they divested rather than invested. They got all their money out and a lot of university a lot of universities did this, and they did it at the prompting and some of their students, like in Harvard, they the students erected a shaneytown to show what the people who lived in the towns in South Africa were living like. And and got all these

endowments to to start divesting. And I think uh CAL had the biggest one. They divested three billion dollars from the South African economy. And um, they think that that was the thing that really like like open the bleeding

go bears. Yeah, So, um, this divestment combined with this international political pressure all over the world, and South Africa still says, go to hell, we're not getting rid of apartheime for years still and yeah, and then finally it was what, uh, well, nineteen eighty nine is when the big turning point came. That's when F. W. De Clerk

became president of apartheid South Africa. And between eighty nine and ninety three is when he basically repealed everything on the books and said this is going in a different direction. Now let's release Nelson Mandela. And in fact, when we have our first democratic election in nineteen Nelson Mandela wins. So what a great ending to that story. And uh, despite being in prison for thirty years. Uh. On May tenth, when Mandela was giving his his speech, he's closed by

speaking in Afrikaans. This isn't his inaugurations. Yeah, which is like the fact that even spoken that tongue. To me, it says a lot about the man. And he said, what what has past has past? And here's a Nobel Peace prize. Mr Mandela and Mr di Clerk, like you both get it in and I like the article pointed out it was a shockingly peaceful transition. Uh. And I'm sure there are still many many more years that are

needed for the healing. Uh. You don't get over or something like that overnight if it's been hundreds of years. But um, I think things are definitely headed in the right direction now. Yeah. Well, one of the things that they did was they set up a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which is like basically a tribunal that heard um stories of human rights violations that gave victims a voice to

say it in public, like this happened to me. Um. In some instances, people who perpetrated these could be prosecuted. They could also be forgiven publicly by this court, this tribunal. Um. It was a really good move to like kind of help this national healing because yeah, all of a sudden,

Apartheid's gone over a four year period. But I mean there was a lot of people who were kind of into that and they did a lot of stuff and they're not protected by the government anymore, and like a lot of bad things happened to a lot of people are still alive, Like what do you do? Uh? And I think that was a really good move to to move not just the government but also the society to post apartheid um life. Yeah, I'd like to hear from people in South Africa about the state of things today.

And watch Searching for Sugar Man. People. It's really like, through this great story of music encapsulates this whole time period really really well. Right and then, uh, I guess ever since the Aliens landed over Johannesburg, that's kind of taken up a lot of their a lot of their attention. District nine, Yeah, which was really based on apartheid pretty much wasn't What was that the inspiration for them? That

was a good movie. Yeah, so watch that, watch District nine, Searching for Sugarman, and watch Cry Freedom and go listen to Tribe called Quest. Peter Gabriel, I haven't even I have not listened or seen the Rugby movie yet. Morgan Freeman place Mandela with Damon. Yeah, what is it? Invictus? Yeah? Yeah, I need I need to see now. Uh, okay, let's sit for apartheid hunt goodness? Uh do you want to do? H A word from our sponsor? Yeah, we got listener

mail coming up, but work from our sponsor first. So now it's time for listener mail, right, that's right, Josh, I'm gonna call this surfs up. I just listened to how surfing works as someone who serves three hundred days a year all over the world and teaches surfing for a living. I just wanted to say that you guys did an excellent job for two guys who don't surf

in a very limited experience with it. Your definitions and descriptions were pretty much spot on, and I would have to agree with you Chuck that it is very difficult to learn. It has one of the slowest, most miserable learning curves of any sport. I always tell people that if you don't enjoy sucking at it, then you won't enjoy surfing. So quickly. Did you surf on your vacation? Yeah? I did? Then how did you Dot waiting to ask

I got up? You me was watching from the shore and she agrees, um that I did get up at least once possible. She says, possibly twice, But I, um, I only stand by one, and by by get up, I mean I was virtually crouching and then fell off after like five seconds. And how many days did you try it? I just one and I didn't even I didn't even take a lesson. Okay, you just went out there, do you know how well? Our podcast exactly. Yeah, that's

how I figured out how to do it. I did kind of, but um, I remember we were talking about how it's very easy to like get on your hands and knees and then get up, but you don't want to learn that technique. That's that's what I learned. Yeah, you gotta call before you can walk exactly. Also I should clear up that in general, learning to surf on a longboard is usually preferred, as he catch waves easier and you're easier to stand up on them a short board.

But being that catching a wave is the hardest part for beginners, you're usually better off learning that way. Did you have a short board? Uh? Yeah, it was shortish shortage. Yeah, it definitely wasn't a long board. They turn easier, but turning his pointless if you can't catch the wave in the first first place. So yeah, there was no turning going on. Yeah, it was surf riding. Surf riding anyway. I just want to say, good job guys. I'll be

teaching surfing all summer in Southampton, New York. If you're up in New York this summer, hit me up. I'll take you out for surf and that is Miles from Santa Cruz. PS. Big Wednesday is the best movie ever. Of course you think that because that's what surf first did. Um, that's nice, Miles three days a year. Can you believe that he's sounds like Miles has got a pretty decent life if he's living in Santa Cruz and then teaching in New York in the summers. Yeah. Um, thank for

running in, Miles. If you are an expert or you do something that we've talked about three d days a year, we want to hear from you because that pretty much makes you an expert. Um. You can tweet to us at s y s K podcast. You can join us at Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us a an email right in to Stuff Podcasts at Discovery dot com and check out our website Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does It how stuff Works dot com. M