Do motivational speakers motivate people?

fears called Igniting Fury with Josh Clark. That's pretty good. I know what Aaron Cooper is doing this week. How you doing. I'm doing pretty good, man. I'm feeling kind of pumped. Took some Vitamin B twelve today. I'm I'm ready to go. Yeah, as you notice, I cut all that dumb hair off. Yeah looks good. I I like it both ways. Yeah chuck two point? Oh was I chuck two point? I got too hot? Is the real expect Yeah, that'll do it. And literally just drove to

the place and said, all right, take it off. I um I mine mine. As you know, as well as has gotten kind of longish, and I've got like that sixth grade skater cut tick where like I'm like just kind of flipping it. Yeah, just just twisting my head suddenly to the side to get the hair out of my face. Yeah. I think that was another reason I cut mine too, was it was just there was too much focus on it, uh, personal focus because it was

from you. I mean yeah, just like management and having to do things to it and like get it right. And I was just like, I just it's been so many years since I've had to focus on my hair. You had to go buy a whole new bottle of mane and tail just felt dumb, I think. Yeah. I was like, you know, I'm going I'm going back to Chuck one point. Good for you, man, and welcome back to fight club. Thank you. Let me see your fingernails all right? Does look acceptable? What do you think about

this topic? I thought that I couldn't ever, I couldn't that the end would never come what like researching it? Yeah, I guess we know how we both feel about this. Then it's not even dude. I have to say I got switched mid mid research my the tone of my research changed because of a Nancy Besser. Oh. Um. So here's the thing. This is my personal opinion. I'll give it at the front and you can decide whether listen

to the rest of the episode or not. It's the motivational speaking is so uh flimsy and jelly, like the whole field. It's so unscientifically based and just so prone to hucksterism in a lot of cases that I just I didn't even want to research it. I was just like, I meat this stuff so much. Um. And then part way I was but I was doing my due diligence.

I'm a professional, as you know. But um, part way through, I was reading the in the House Stuff Works article about Nancy Besser, and so I went on to her site and did some more research on her, and I read her I think, like about me or her mission or something like that, and I was like, actually, that's I don't disagree with anything. This lady just said like that's great. Good for her, good for where she came from, good for what she's trying to do if she wants

to make some money doing it, awesome. So saying that it definitely changed course and pulled me back from the brink, which I think was really needed because I was really kind of like I was crop circle in it, you know what I mean. And Um, she brought me back and I appreciate that to her, and I'd like to find out how I can mail her some money. All right, you want to know my opinion? What's like this? We're gonna front load the opinions and then talk about the

more all throughout. UM. My deal is this. If you have, um, a really great story to tell about your life, because maybe you overcome some great adversities. Uh, maybe you're a quadriplegic, or maybe you are a POW or had a life threatening illness, or if you had any general like major life hardships that you overcame and are like killing it in life. And you have a great story to tell that is sincere and you can go up there and

make some dough inspiring people, then awesome. If you are just really good at holding up pep rally um, and you don't have any big story in your life other than the fact that you were like, Hey, I'm kind of good at this and I think I can make some dough. And I've met these celebrities and I've met these famous people and they think I'm cool. Um. I have two feelings about that. One is, if people are genuinely being helped, I'm not gonna yuck their young, then

that's great. I think that's good for you to say. But I look at that that other scene with a very weary eye, um, because it reeks of everything from taking advantage of people too. Sometimes it even sounded like scientology. Oh yeah, there's a lot of religious overtones to the whole thing, and that it would be like, well, by this book, uh, and then by this one, and then come to this seminar, and then by this thing, and it had it had all the markings of like a

pyramid scheme almost. So I was like you, I'm kind of all over the place with it, um. And I think that's kind of the deal with motivational speaking is it takes many many forms, from an inspirational person who has a great life story to someone who was just like, hey, I'm I can hold a pepperrelly as good as the next guy. I'll charge somebody three grand to listen to that. Two, Hey, here's a financial seminar where you can get rich, right,

just give us a bunch of money first. Yeah, so it's really all over the map, um, because it's I mean, not that it should be regulated, but it's just such a it's kind of like the wild West as far as what you can be as a motivational speaker. Yeah.

And I think also one of the reasons why it's tough for us to to nail down our feelings about it one way or the other, or why we have multiple feelings, because inherently there's nothing in and of itself wrong with making an effort to motivate other people to be a better version of themselves. Right, But that can be that that neutral thing or maybe even positive thing can be exploited depending on the context that's used it. Right. There's a really good example of that. There's a book

called Who Moved My Cheese? And it's like ninety pages, big print, lots of illustrations, so it's a quick read the title, but the whole thing is there's, um, there's a maze, and there used to be cheese in this one place, and these two humans Ham and Haw are just all up at arms that that that they're cheese? Is there anymore? What? What a tragedy? Who could have possibly done this? And then these two mice. I can't remember what the mices the Yeah, the mices. I can't

remember what the mice. Yeah, the mice, that's right, the mice's names are. But they see that their cheese is gone, they run off to find cheese elsewhere. Right, So the mice are the heroes of the story where the humans are dumb, and it's because the humans are allowing themselves to become victims. Now, there's like some certain themes in there that's true, Like, yes, it's not necessarily a good idea to focus on, you know why this issue came about.

Just solve the problem and move on. But who moved my cheese? Is very commonly a book that's purchased by employers when they're going through a downsizing and they're saying to their employers or their employees like, hey, you need to give us a smile. Don't start asking why your job was downsized. Just read this book and try to be happy. So, this thing that could be good is being exploited in a very negative manner um to to exonerate people who are making decisions that are negatively impacting

people's lives. There's there's that's there. It is in a nutshell, there's the the good and the bad. Yeah, I will say this, I like UH fictional motivational speakers much more. Whether it was uh Matt Foley, which is mentioned in this article of course, great Chris Farley character. He gets three paragraphs. Yeah, that was overdoing it a bit, but definitely one of the more classic SML characters. Um. My other favorite is UH from Magnolia Frank T. J. Mackie.

That was one of Tom Cruise's best characters. Yeah. Uh, And I think so ironic that he played that character. In ways, I almost get the impression that it was like, um who who directed that was Paul Thomas Anderson, that in a way casting Cruise was toying with him a little bit, or Paul Thomas Anderson wanted him to face him himself maybe, or maybe he gave him the script and like literally every day on set after he finished, Cruise would look around and say, are you making fun

of me here? You're not making fun of me? No, no, no no, it's on. It's terrific. You're the best time. All right, you're not making fun of me? Right? Anyway? That that character was specifically about UH picking up women in bars and having sex with him. So yeah, that was sort of a different type of thing, but it was motivational. It was uh. So we mentioned different kinds

of people who do this. Um, there are people like Long who uh is a motivational speaker because he had a twenty ton bus hit him while he was on a bicycle. Uh. It was in the hospital for five months at about forty operations and then finally overcame that to run the New York City Marathon. So people like that you will often see that have an amazing hardship. Like I said that they have overcome and maybe did like a small speaking engagement and said, you know, people

really connected to this, and I think I really helped folks. Um, So can I sign up with a company that's gonna book gigs for me and I can make some real though? And you you really can? I mean, like there's there's there are people out there who support themselves just from motivational speaking. I think there's probably far more who aspired to that. Um. But but it is entirely possible to become a motivational speaker with representation and and that's how

you make your living. Yeah, and you know what, I don't think we've ever talked about this on the show, but stuff you should know we actually we actually don't do motivational gigs, but we've done some corporate speaking on occasion. We have specifically told the people who are agents are booking it that we are not motivational speakers to book us as such, and that we are not experts, but we're glad to come talk to your company. By the way, Yeah, how about that. I mean, you just you just let

the cat out of the bag. You changed our lives for the better, Chuck. But long story short, we have because of this, we have talked and spoken with a number of agencies and representatives who act as the liaison between a company or a corporation or a group and the speaker, and so we've kind of got a little bit of an inside view on kind of what this public professional public speaking is all about. And one of the things that uh, I mean, we kind of do

our thing and we're not the best. Um, we're not the best for people to sell because we're not like we can do this and we're vivacious and we have get up on stage and just rally people. We're kind of well, we kind of do one thing so if you want us to do that, we can do it. Yeah. So it's sort of a narrower field, but it's niche. It is very niche. But if you do want to,

if you think you have a neck. And this one woman in here who was the one that said that she was always sort of the cheerleader in her group, Yeah, she was like I kind of always was just this person in life and my friends. I would motivate my friends and my family and stuff. So if you have that kind of vivacious personality and you can get up on stage in front of people and you have a good story to tell that's um sincere, then it might be something that you should look into. Right. That's another

reason why I like Nancy bestor too. She's the only one in this article who admits that, Yeah, anybody can do it. It's just it's a it's a certain type of skill set, but not something you would have to be born with, Like anybody can figure it out well. And I think a lot of professional motivational speakers would probably be like, no, no, no, no, this is not for you. Well yeah, Matt Long, the elite athlete UM

says like, no, no, not everybody could do it. Yeah, he said, well, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it. So no, that was his answer to can anybody do it? I think we like I would say my sense of humor, especially as stuff you should know goes, is pretty self deprecating. But I say this totally honestly that if we can do it, we're proof that anybody can do this. Oh yeah, we didn't have any experience getting on stage in front of people. Now we learned it. Again.

We're not up there doing motivational speaking, but we're up there doing public speaking in front of groups who don't know us, and that that's the key. Now. The next level, of course, is whether you can arouse uh, positive emotion and in the people out there you know, listening to you um, And that that I think takes a decent amount of practice. But there are techniques and there are methods that you can figure out, and all you have

to do is a little bit of research. All you would have to to research really is if you look up like how to be a motivational speaker, that is going to leave you a heartache. But if you look up sensible things like how do you motivate people? Um, how do you give a dynamite presentation. All of these things, it's all the same stuff. It's just the thing that makes motivational speaking different is the through line is inspiration.

You have an inspirational story. You're you're telling people that they can they can have a better life themselves, that it's in there in them. That's that's really the big difference between motivational speaking and any other type of public speaking. Yeah. I wonder if that guy who said that, UM wonderful in his thing he goes, you know, you can come over any adverse the except public speaking motivation speaking, like, don't don't try that. Anything else you could probably do though.

The competition is thinking of all right, well let's take a break here. It's a good start, and we will motivate you to come back and listen more right after this. All right. Uh. Psychology wise, people have been um. Psychologists have been studying motivation for for many many years, um,

and what motivates people? And there's a dude, uh named Abraham Harold Maslow, and in the nineteen forties came up with something a little, a little pyramid called Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which is fairly interesting if you look at it. It is UM. It's a pyramid. Were down at the bottom. I think it's been revised over the years. No, that's the food pyramid you're thinking of. Now, this has been

revised a little bit. At the bottom there are one, two, three, four, five levels and at the bottom you have physiological needs like food and water, shelter, shelter, warmth. Right above that you have safety needs UM, security and safety in life. Above that you have belongingness and love, which are friends and intimates. Esteem goes above that prestige feeling of accomplishment. And then finally at the very top of the pyramid, UM. People should stop using pyramids because that's just got a

bad name. Now, UM achieving one's full potential or self actualization. And so the idea is that you've divided these needs up into groups where once you have fulfilled these basic needs, you will become stronger and you will basically satisfy those lower called lower level deficit needs, and then you can progress onto these higher needs until you reach that final

level U self actualization. And you I mean you can take issue and people have with Maslow's hierarchy, like the a literal reading of it would say that homeless people couldn't are incapable of having friendships or caring about one another because they're lacking in a lower need, which is shelter and housing. UM. But the overall it does seem to be pretty widely, widely regarded, well regarded most like

it doesn't take into account social factors. UM, it sounds Let's put it this way, it sounds like something developed in the nineteen forties, right, Yeah, And it's pretty it's pretty elementary, and it does it's not very complex, but it has formed the basis of UM a lot of psychology, Like it is pretty much the standard for motivational theory from what I understand, and UM, it definitely forms a lot of the basis for motivational speaking and the motivational

speaking industry and and the the um crux of what motivational speakers based their motivation on. Right. So, like you said, you have this Maslow's theory, but UM regarded well or not, It's been around for a long time and is the basis for how to motivate people. And people speakers use this in their own way. They have their own take on how they want to use it or whether they use it, and investor's case. Um, she actually went to school.

She she went to graduate school and studied, uh, conflict resolution and emotional intelligence, which I think UM gives her a leg up as far as being schooled at least and things she talks about how empathy is very important and she's at least studied on it, you know, which is more than you can say for a lot of them. Did you you interviewed Tony Robbins at one point for us for our blog? Imber did. Yeah, he's seven years ago. I was part of I don't know, there were like

four or five other people on the phone. It was a conference interview that we were but I mean, let's be honest, we were made to do this, yes, very much. So it was in the evening, Um it was there was something else going on, I think a birthday party. I had just step away from UM. But it was right before his TV show Breakthrough with Tony Robbins came out, and I do you remember that show? I do? Uh?

Very short lived like it was, Yeah, it was extremely short lived, but it was the were selling like super Bowl um sized, we're super Bowl price commercials for that thing, like that's how much those the ads spots were going for on this. It was a huge event and it flopped very quickly, which I think surprised everybody because Tony

Robbins is He's huge man, He's enormous. Yeah. One of the stats, the four million people he reaches from a hundred countries has a net worth of about four and eighty million dollars through his books and speeches and services. And he's been at it for a very long time. A lot of people think that he started the UM, the motivational speaking industry. He definitely did not. Read a pretty interesting article that suggested that Ralph Waldo Emerson was

America's first motivational speaker could make sense. I've seen it go back even further than that. There's a lady named Mary Baker Eddie who ended up founding the Christian Science I guess church. She got together with a guy named Phineas park hurse Quimby. If that's not a mid nineteenth century name, I don't know what is right, or a

new hipster Brooklyn kid's name. Yes, it is now um and there's They came together and created what's known as the New Thought movement, which is basically said that if you think positively good things will happen, which, now this is just such a widespread thought and it's it forms such that forms as much the basis of motivational speaking as Maslow's hierarchy, the idea that if you think positively, you're going to have an actual effect on fate, on destiny,

on the universe, on on your your own future. Right, But that makes zero sense whatsoever logically, and it it finds it's its roots back in this, these two, these two people coming together, so that actually probably was the basis of the motivational speaking industry, and it continued on here. There there were some luminaries that pop up between uh

the New Thought movement and Tony Robbins. You've got like Dale Carnegie, who wrote How To Um Make Friends and Influence People, one of the greatest selling self help books of all time, and really introduced the concept of self help to the masses. Dale Carnegie did use an interesting dude. And then you've got guys like Napoleon Hill who wrote Think and Grow Rich. I believe it sounds like something on the Simpsons, like a fake self help book, it

really was. And there's actually Chuck a really good article on Gizmoto called The Untold Story of Napoleon Hill the greatest self help scammera of all time. Well, and you know how you like those long form articles, this one, as long as it gets right, it's basically like a mini book. So the mid twenties century, you've got people popping up. And then and then a young man named Anthony Robbins created an infomercial for his Personal Power program.

Remember that infomercial I do. And I looked into a little bit because I realized I was like, I don't even know his deal, Like what was uh? I know, he wasn't a pow um Like I wondered what his story was. You're like, okay, check that box off um. And from what I could find, and I didn't do a deep dive, but from what I could find, he worked for a motivational speaker. And I think was just like, hey, I can do this. Yeah, is that the deal? Yes? Okay,

from what I understand, And he was absolutely right. He did it. He he's a cottage industry onto himself. That Personal Power infomercial. By the way, in the first three years that it was out, a hundred million people saw it in America, So he became like a juggernai, I became a pop culture thing. Remember he was in Shallow How he's actually the mcguffin for the whole movie. Meeting Tony Robbins in an elevator is what sets like the

whole plot of the movie off. And then what a mcguffin is, I don't I don't remember seeing that movie, to be honest, I know the movie, but I don't think I saw it. But no, as far as film industry parlance goes, and mcguffin is the thing that helps the plot along, right, Yeah, a mcguffin is uh something in the movie, a device or something that triggers the plot. So I think in that case you're correct. Okay, I'm using it correctly, by goodness. So um Tony Tony Robins.

So by the time he came out with his show breakthrough in two thousand ten, um, everybody just assumed it would be huge and it was not for some reason. I still don't understand why. But if you watch that first episode, it's basically him going around and motivating people who have like enormous challenges up against them. And the first episode still to this day, I just kind of I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe he did this.

They he went and met up with a guy who was Audre, who was qua quadriplegic, I believe, and he had become quadriplegic after jumping headfirst into a swimming pool I think at his wedding reception. Um And and became paralyzed and I you know, obviously quite depressed as a result, and was had lost his job and his life had really just taken a huge turn downward. And Tony Robbins showed up to help the guy, and he wanted to

help him by inspiring him. And the way that he inspired him was to take him up in an airplane and push him out. Do you remember he pushed a man, a quadriplegic man out of an airplane with a parachute on and said like Scottive or something like that. It was one of the craziest things anyone's ever done on TV. And I'm including up to present day. So so breakthrough Tony Robbins plot. But that was probably just like a blip on that dude's radar. It did nothing to his

personal brand as far as dragging it down. No, um And I don't want to like sound like I'm bashing the guy, because you know, he helps a lot of people that buy into it and apparently is very philanthropic, uh in many ways. So that's good, right, sure of course. Um, But he also, um, is a firewalker. This is something I did not know U. In his Unleashed the Power Within program that he does live, he gets thousands of

people to walk across hot coals. He's gotten Oprah Winfrey to walk across hot coals, and um, you know, firewalkings, It's it's a real thing. Um, if you look at it scientifically, what's going on is is coals are not a very good conductor of heat, so it takes about a second to actually feel that heat, and if you walk at a good clip, it's about a half a second. So what you're doing is not really And I don't

think he's saying there's some danger you're overcoming. I think in his case, it's you're overcoming a fear and taking part in a group activity and that's where the benefit is. It's like staring at those coals and doing it. I don't think he's saying, like, look, it's magic because of me.

You're not getting burned. I don't know. I think that what he's the premise of his fire walking thing and at these conferences is to show people that they can overcome even physical problems like hot coals on their feet by using their mind. I thought it was like the fear. No, I think in reality that's what's going on. But I believe from what I understand, that it's being presented that you can say something like yes or cool moss, and you're using your mind to overcome the dilemma of the

hot posed by the hot coals on your feet. Okay, fair enough, right? Uh? It all kind of went wrong in Dallas though in there was an event there where um, thirty to forty people were evaluated. I think five people were taken to the hospital with burn injuries, and um, his spokesperson, Jennifer Connelly said, you know what, only five people out of seven thousand requested examination beyond what we had on site to examine people, and you know, everyone

had a great time. Basically, I have to say, statistically speaking, she makes an excellent point. And there's actually somebody in this article, um, oh, what's her name, Irene Wiseman. Yeah, who really kind of put it well, she seems to be somebody who goes to these things to go to she goes. She definitely goes to Robbin's conferences, um, but she also seems to understand what's going on at them, rather than like maybe buying into a lock stock and barrel.

And from what I've seen, someone like her, someone who approaches a motivational speaking conference with her own set of judgments and values about it and is able to take that message and adjust it so that it works for her, rather than trying to take everything from the person wholesale and putting it onto you so that you're basically magically changed. Those people have the greatest greatest chance of succeeding, um at whatever they're being motivated to do. But she she

basically she puts the firewalk like that. She was saying, like the real magic is that there were ten thousand five people waiting their turn to walk over these colds, and everyone was exuberant and calm and happy. Nobody was irritated or you know, um like hurry up or anything like that. It was a neat communal feeling waiting in line to go do the fire the firewalk, and she she did the firewalks. She said it was cool or whatever. Um, but it was more about the camaraderie in the community

that developed in line waiting for the firewalk. For her, it definitely is. And I think if you asked Tony Robbins, maybe he'll come onto the show and talk to us about it sometime. Okay, if you asked Tony Robbins, I would guess that he would concede. Uh that, Yes, you could interpret his conferences as a Pepper rallying. I don't know, I don't know, you know, I want to say something, Chuck, I hold the skeptic community to account for not giving

more ink to motivational the motivational speaking industry. Yeah, I didn't see a lot. And I specifically looked from skeptic sites. Yep, me too, and it's almost not there. So that that has two things. One that skeptics either think that it is right, that's fine, or they think it's so ridiculous that it's not even worth writing about, which I don't think that's the case, because skeptics write about some pretty

ridiculous stuff. Well, I looked at this one article. I don't know if you saw it from the guy who walked out of a conference, a Tony Robbins conference. Did you see that one? Um, this guy was by all accounts from what he said, someone who should be into it. He's like, I wasn't there to bust him. I'm not a skeptic. He was like, I h have read some of his books. I'm a fan, Like I'm into it. Uh. And he walked out and he just had a very like just a very leveled critical eye on the presentation,

not like this guy is this and this. He was just like, you know what, he repeated himself too much, and he name dropped too much, and um, he kind of had some bad segues that and non sequiturs, and he just looked at it sort of from a critical i of a public speaker, and it was kind of like this he's he's kind of phoning it in these days. So it was, Oh, it was Tony Robbins himself that he walked out on. Yeah, and he was just like, you know, I left, He said, I just found that

I wasn't really getting anything out of it. And he didn't go there to to poopoo the guy. Um, like I said, he was a fan, so he just it's kind of like he you know, he ditched the capris and and and start doing a better presentation, was his take? Gotcha the capris Tony Robbins his capri pants, he sure does. Does he really like the ones with the drawstrings at the bottom in the cargo pockets? No? Does he really?

I've not seen that. All right, Well let's take a break and let Josh ponder that, and we'll come back and finish up this stuff right after this. All right, So Tony Robbins isn't the only person out there that's made a ton of money doing this. They want to pick on him. No, we should say a ton of money. His six day conference, Um, I think it's called Date with Destiny this year and last year. So the the Irene Wiseman said there were ten thousand, five hundred people there.

The tickets were about four thousand dollars apiece. That's forty two million dollars they grossed for a sixth day conference. He should call that conference credit cards on fire. Yeah. I read an article, I think in Forbes about the Chinese UM motivational speaking industry, and um, there's this one person who's like, who's going to sign up for the for my other classes and um, like, some people came to the front and a ring of people with like

wireless credit card machines formed around them. Oh my god, yeah, wow, yeah, one of us, one of us man's creepy. Uh So Tony Robbins isn't the only person out there who's done this over the Here's many, many people, I think, I mean, I didn't it say there was something like close to five registered motivational speakers in the U s alone, think like six something. That was it. But very famously, a man named Jack Canfield wrote a book called Chicken Soup

for the Soul. Um and this is an amazing record. He holds the Guinness Record for having seven books on the New York Times bestseller list at the same time. That's unbelievable. Did you know they wrote one for chicken Soup for the prisoner's soul, They wrote one for people in prison? M I did not know that. And also did you know Ashton Kutcher is trying to bring Chicken Soup for the Soul to Netflix the Coach as what a documentary? Or's I have no idea, that's that's all

I saw. Or he's starring his Chicken Soup he's starring his noodle I book a lot of fun at the coach. But he seems like a pretty sincere guy. Uh sure, No, I I don't know. I don't know. I I've I've learned to just try to shy away from no from from like saying stuff about people on air. People I don't know. I don't know him. He's a celebrity. That's all I know about him, you know, like, and even if I did know more about him, and that's not the whole picture. So I have no idea what he's like.

Is a person just based on knowing people he that's probably likeliest that he is a good person. Wayne Dyer, another famous author, no longer with us. I wrote a book called Your Erroneous Zones, and a lot of these people, it seems like, started out as book writers. That's the best way. That used to be the best way to get started. Now I think the best way to get started is to just start speaking and then write your

books based on your successes there. You want to do that almost simultaneously too, because one of the things you do if you're an motivational speaker is mentioned by the way, I've got even more insights that are going to help you out, and my books that are available for sale right outside. Yeah, that's when it reeks of scientology to me. It's like you can unlock more discoveries by buying more things.

But all, yeah, all of them do that. Like you're a fool if you're a motivational speaker who doesn't have a book for sale at your conference, Like you're doing it wrong. Right, as far as the industry would be concerned, I think that in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean

that you are a huckster. But there are plenty of them in the industry that are hucksters because all they're they're doing is selling their book or their class or there's something they're They're motivational speech is actually just a sales pitch. That's the hucksters, and there's plenty of them in the industry. Yes, should we talk about get motivated? Yeah?

We should. This is a seminar series that was started in two thousand two by guy named Peter Lowe and in the article I read, he has described as the son of a missionary who along with his ex wife Tamarra, who was a self help book author who writes Christian rap started, uh something that a series called Get Motivated that UM is filling up stadiums that at one point and no longer, but at one point was in business

with TD Ameritrade. Yeah. I think they started with a legitimate motivational speaker conference, Okay, and then over time said hey, you know what, we could get somebody in here to to underwrite a lot of this and UM they can just give they can basically put ads in amongst the motivational speakers. Yeah. So they partnered up with t d AMR Trade with this UM product they hauled had called invest Tools UM and they're no longer in business together, but Get Motivated still out there. I'm not sure if

they're partnering with anyone or not. No, they have a new owner called wealth Rock that has their own investing classes that they now sell exclusively. I think are the only things that are sold at the Get Motivated conferences. Okay, So here's a long and short of it. What they do is they charge very little money. It's not like you have to pay thousands of dollars like Tony Robbins UM live event, but you pay like five bucks or

something and say hey, I can go here. Colin Powell speak or Terry Bradshaw or who else they they have U, Laura Bush or Juliani. And who wouldn't go here speeches by them for five bucks besides me? Uh? And then you go and you h you would, um for five bucks. I'd go see Colin all for five bucks if he spoke in my living room. How's that? Uh, let's make it happen, America. That's a riff on an old joke my dad used to say, which was when he wanted to denigrate a performer, you would say, I wouldn't go

see them if they were playing in my backyard. I've heard that before too. That's such a seventies dad thing to totally. Um. So anyway, you would go and you would listen to these motivational speeches. Um. And then what's going on is is their financial they're selling a financial product basically right, And again it's it's like you've got actual like Colin Powell's not like. And by the way, if I mentioned how great t D and Merri Trades

investment tools are, They've helped me out a lot. He just paid a boatload of money to go speak exactly, and he's giving like a real motivational speech. Right. And then after Colin Powell, you have some guy come up and say, hey, who wants a Corvette and they flashed a picture of a Corvette and everybody raises their hand. He's like, you can have them with corvette too, with

invest tools or whatever. Right. So the criticism of this is that these people are super pumped and ready to just do anything because they're feeling really good thanks to Colin Pal's speech. And then now they're getting this the sales pitch that's being wedged in between these motivational speakers, So of course they're signing up for this and and

maybe without really fully understanding what's going on. Um. The on the other side, the t D A Mere trade people say, how are you gonna do a hard sell with, you know, to twenty people in a stadium. You can't like, like, that's just that's that's ridiculous to say that these people

had a hard sales pitch leveled against them. The point is that people who went went thinking they were going to a motivational speaking event a conference, and it turns out the whole thing was just a t D A mere trade add to get them to give them their money for these investment tools that may or may not help them actually make money from that point, well, yeah,

and uh. In two thousand nine, investivals UM agreed to pay three million dollars UH to settle UM allegations from the SEC that it let instructors mislead students and the things that can make extraordinary profits. Uh and to claim they were expert option traders when their income was really coming from selling the courses. Yeah. Apparently one of the instructors said, like, the returns were guaranteed, you can't you

cannot do that. And apparently you're also not supposed to say what percentage return you can offer, and they they apparently said seventeen percent, which is just ridiculous. And these are options that we're talking about. These are not like stock trades, where you know, you can do a little research and figure out stock trades and you're not necessarily

swimming with sharks. These were options. Options are extremely complex and difficult, and they cost more to trade than a stock trade does, and you're much more apt to lose money because you don't understand what you're doing. There's a lot more factors involved in whether you make money off

of investing in options. Or not. So this is like they're going to people who are paying to see you know, Colin Powell and Laura Bush speak because they admire them, and then they're they're getting sold these supposedly classes on investing in very sophisticated financial tools. It's just you shouldn't do that. You know. Their lineup is now who I went to get motivated website and like, did you say that they had they had their own product? Now yeah, Wealth Rock is the owner I believe spelled r A

W k uh. Their current lineup right now for this next tour is Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank, one of the Duck Dynasty dudes. All right, do you know his name? Larry King? Really? Yeah? Okay? Um. A woman named Mangeet Minhas who I believe I looked into her briefly. She's started breweries and wineries in Canada, made a lot of money and then finally rounding it out Edwards Snowden. That's a good one, man, that's quite I'm sure Edward Snowden. I want to be in the green

room with Edward Snowden and the Duck Dynasty guy. Well, you're you're joking about Edward Snowden. Oh that's four real. No, yes, no it's not. Yes, it is what and under his thing it says, uh what did it say? I mean, you know, says entrepreneur below one and said duck Dynasty star and blow him, it says whistle blower. No, Edward Snowden is doing this conference. Yes, well I'm going I gotta hear this. Yeah. Wow, strange times. It is strange times. I gotta say, I like what Wealth Rock is doing

these days? Uh. In two thousand five, that was an investigative journalist named Steve Salerna who um wrote a book called SHAM, which stands for self help in Actualization movement, called SHAM colin how the self help movement made America helpless And he kind of peeled back. He he didn't hold any punches and kind of peeled back the the thin layer on this industry and um basically said, there's no science behind this, uh, these techniques, there's no evidence

that this stuff is effective at all. Um, it could be just coincidence or people may not be uh maybe are not helped by this industry at all. Right, And he was saying, like just the law of Averages says that if enough people try it, some of them are going to be helped, and they may even be helped just by other things or by things other than whatever the motivational speaker was telling him to do, but it

will be attributed to the motivational speaker. And if you get some people who are willing to give testam O'Neills, then that just helps feed the beast, basically right. And if you're not helped, then the common line as well, you just you're not buying in like you can. Yeah, this is where it gets insidious to me. It's where

the it's is built in self defense. I guess deflection mechanism for for motivation the motivational speaking industry, which is, yeah, you're not enough of a believer, you don't have enough passion, you're um not trying hard enough, Like you're the problem, you're failing, you're the loser, you're committed to losing. That's

another one too, and that's despicable to me. If you're if you are deflecting blame from yourself and your own shoddy product, that's not actually helping people onto somebody who is really looking for help because they don't think that they have the real strength and of in themselves too

to overcome the adversity they face. Okay, um, holding it back, man, Well you said that great article, Three reasons why most motivational speakers are dead wrong, And that was one of the things that um that this author, Well did you have his name? Uh? He is Hoffman. His name is Bobby Hoffman. Yeah, that was one of the things he brought up, that is that it's undebunkable basically because they can always just put it back on the person do that. Yeah,

it's not good at all. No, So I mean, I guess in a nutshell the and apparently in a nutshell was Dale Carnegie thing. But in a nutshell the motivational speaking industry, it can be good and can be bad depending. Yeah, and I know we spent a lot of time in retrospect now slamming it all. But um, like I said, good for you. If you do have a legitimate sincere hardship overcoming a hardship life story to tell and that helps people out and you can make a buck doing it,

then I think that's awesome. Yeah. And again, if you're somebody who's looking to be motivated by a motivational speaker. If what somebody is saying makes a lot of sense to you, it feels right, you feel good listening to them, reading their books, hearing what they have to say. UM, more power to you. I I don't knock that at all. No, just tread lightly and go into it with a with a intelligent I. There you go. I don't want to see anyone get duped, you know. Okay, those our our

public service for the week. Goodness. Uh. If you want to learn more about motivational speaking, type those words in the search bar how stuff works dot com. And since I said that, it's time for a listener mail, I'm gonna call this ghost fishing follow up UM from Anthony and Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, guys, just finished ghost fishing and glad you covered this really important topic of an environmental scientist who studies fishing water in North Carolina. Have

worked in this field all over the country. While the commercial fishing industry is extremely detrimental to marine life, recreational fishing causes a lot of fish to die and freshwater because of littering from it. And this is something I really thought about as UM. Seldom fishermen many fishermen and women throw little excess bits of line while tying knots on the ground or in the water while the fishing.

This monofilament goes in the waterways, and if you look into the gut of many fish, turtles, birds, and other life associated with water, you almost always find this fishing line and hooks stuck in the various biota or the

biota being stuck in the gear. I would highly recommend fishermen and women, let's just say fisher people, uh, fisher kings of fisher kings, to make sure they put this extra line in their pocket to dispose of later, or use an environmentally friendly nylon line that if they can find it. This monofilament line just does not break down over time like the nylon does. Just wanted to share

this with you all. Many people are unaware of the harm they can do without meaning to these little bits of line, and I hope it can help people be more aware while they're fishing. Good Yeah, thanks Anthony from Charlotte. I'd never really thought about that my own self, and that's wrong. Yeah, good going, Anthony, much appreciated. If you want to get in touch with us like Anthony did, and give us a heads up on something We love those You can tweet to us at s y s

K podcast or Josh, I'm Clark. You can join us on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know or slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You can send us an email with Stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com and it's always joined us at a home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com. Two