Weirdhouse Cinema Rewind: The Butterfly Murders

Hello, and welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind. My name is Joe McCormick. Today we're running an older episode of Weird House Cinema. This was originally published November seventeenth, twenty twenty three, and it is about the nineteen seventy nine Hong Kong Woosha film The Butterfly Murders. Ooh, this was a good one. I hope you enjoy.

Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

Hey you, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

And I am Joe McCormick. In today's pick on Weird House is the genre defying nineteen seventy nine Hong Kong martial arts bonanza, The Butterfly Murders, directed by Shehawk. This movie is great. It has everything. It's part Wusha, part eco horror. I didn't expect it to be so much like like Frogs and other eco horror movies we've done. It's part murder mystery, but it's also all killer butterflies. That's right.

This one's a real treat. It's almost like a fitting pre Thanksgiving dinner kind of a film because it's just stuff to the gills as we as we'll discuss. No doubt, this is perhaps a sense too of like talented filmmakers first movie Syndrome, where clearly they had had so many ideas that need to be unleashed on the world, and they're all present, you know. So it's maybe a little

Yes, absolutely, you know, one thing I really respect about this movie is that I don't actually know what it was called in the I guess original Cantonese marketing, but the English title delivers on the promise in a quite literal fashion. So it's called The Butterfly Murders, and the Butterfly Murders is not about like a serial killer who draws a butterfly at every crime scene or something. That's

Absolutely, yeah, And I think my initial guess when I started running across this title was, oh, it's a serial killer. It's some sort of like, oh, he leaves a butterfly as his signature or something, but no, it's straight up butterfly sworms.

Well, there are human intelligences behind the butterfly crimes, but they really are carried out via swarms of butterflies. Multiple reviews i've seen compare this film to Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, and yes, I definitely see some similarities. I think there may have been some conscious relationship there. Except as absurd as the premise of The Birds itself was, at least birds have beaks and talons. This is about killer butterflies. And the crazy thing is this movie succeeds at making

Absolutely. I feel like it's essentially a goofy concept right because you can break down and say, okay, well, there are examples of butterflies and moths that have some level of toxicity to them, but there's no such thing as a killer butterfly. Butterflies are not threatening, and yet this movie on the whole succeeds in making them feel like at least sort of an ambient environmental threat.

However, on top of just that home run of a premise killer butterflies, I want to say, across the board, I thought this movie was generally number one excellent, like really well made, and number two bananas. It is just nuts in basic every direction.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Now I do have to emphasize that this movie in its currently available international form is not an easy to follow film if you're trying to just absolutely absorb every detail of the.

So much plot.

Yeah it is, you know. It is a historic martial arts fantasy adventure film, a wusha, but it's it's one with the complex plot, multiple characters, parallel mysteries and feuding factions and all. That's perfectly fair. But the English subtitles

I'm gonna say that I think you can watch this movie and get perfect enjoyment, like at least ninety percent of the potential enjoyment of this film without closely following what all of the factions and alignments and plot twists are. And I was actually wondering when we get into the plot description section of this episode, I kind of don't know how I'm going to handle it because I made detailed notes trying to follow the plot, but it is so complicated. I'm like, are we gonna have to skip

Absolutely, it never really lets up. There's always something captivating. It's almost too captivating. Again, if you're trying to follow everything with the subtitles. All right, Joe, what's your elevator pitch for the Butterfly Murders.

Let's say a scholar, a gang boss, and a wireflying Marshall heroine walk into a castle haunted by killer butterflies.

All right, let's hear a little bit of the trailer audio. Note that this is from a rather long trails, like four minutes long. I believe this is the original Hong Kong trailer. So we're just gonna hear a little part of it, but hopefully getting some of that excellent theme music in there. Sang Sunset Sun say Junny.

Jump sum Away, see saw Babe? What can.

Now? Before we proceed? You may be wondering, well, how can I watch The Butterfly Murders? Well, it's not an easy one to get your hands on. Unfortunately. Right now, this is a film where the best available quality is very watchable, but it has not benefited from restoration. Uh English subtitles. They're not hard baked, but they are rough, so if you are not a Chinese speaker, you're gonna

I agree. I wish there was a really great Blu Ray restoration of this because it clearly is a fantastic looking movie. But even the DVD we had had a lot of I don't know, it was not in good shape. But there was a lot of like washed out color and weird kind of like pop ins of different color shades on certain scenes. So I don't know, it seems like whatever source film material they were working from was was not in the best of shape. I even found there was something of a history of this movie being

Yeah, I guess. I mean it's it's details like this, and of course, sadly like this is still in play for this film, but you know, it reminds you of the links folks had to go to to watch some of these films back in the day. You know, this on top of various VHS dot and you know, VHS dubs of a Japanese laser disc of some European release and so forth.

But like we said, there are some sort of under the radar rips out there that are not great quality. It's not the best way you're going to see it, but this movie is worth seeing, so especially if you can get access to to the DVD that's out there, It's it's pretty cool. I'd recommend it.

Oh absolutely yeah, And again, the best version that's out there is very watchable. This isn't one of those situations like with pod people or extraterrestrial visitors, where the previously available footage was just not great at all. More on that because we're going to refeature that one as a weird house rewind and I have some updates about the available quality on that film.

Oh yeah, the old the old version of that was almost like watching a movie being projected in a cloud of smoke.

Yeah yeah, this one though perfectly watchable. All right, let's talk about some of the folks behind this. So we already mentioned the director here Shika or she Heart or Shia Hook. I think you'll hear his name referenced in varying ways. We'll just keep referring to him as Hawk here. He was born in nineteen fifty Vietnamese born, Texas educated Hong Kong film director, producer, and screenwriter. He studied film at Southern Methodist University in Texas and then at the

You mentioned Zoo Warriors from the Magic Mountain in multiple sources. I've seen that movie highlighted as sort of his masterpiece, or at least his masterpiece. If you're looking for like like weird Hong Kong cinema more instead of his Western.

Movies, all right, we may have to come back and look at that one now. Purely Western audiences might know him best from his films from two films particular, Double Team from ninety seven. This is a film that starred Jean Claude Van Dam, Dennis Rodman, Paul Freeman, and Mickey Rourke.

Have you seen this one, Joe, I don't remember if I did. I saw it before I could appreciate it.

I think I look back to see what Ebert had to say about it. Roger Ebert wrote, Double Team is one of the most preposterous action films ever made. And I do not mean that as a criticism. It will give you some notion of this movie strangeness. If I tell you that Dennis Rodman does not play the most peculiar character.

Great, I mean, I want to see it. Now.

Another film that he did that international audiences might have heard of his Black Mask two City of mass from two thousand and two. It has a cast that includes Tobin Bell that's old Jigsaw where he saw fans, pro wrestler Rob van Dam, Tracy Lords of Blade Fame, and also Tyler Maine, who I think he played Michael Myers and some of the Rob Zombie films, didn't they And he played saber Tooth in the first X Man.

Yeah, that's right, I have not seen it. I have not seen it either. I guess I feel like I don't think I've seen any of his other movies that I recall, and I've got to fix that.

Yeah, absolutely, because there's so many of them, and it's he's had such a long career. Certainly the weirder entries. I'm interested in Zoo Warriors, I'm interested in the Cannibal flick, and who knows what else is in there?

All right?

The writers on this, we have Chiu Ming Lamb, who is active from nineteen seventy nine through nineteen eighty four, probably best known for this film along with nineteen eighties The Buddhist Fist in nineteen eighty four is the Ghost Informer, and then the other writer is Fan Lynn. This is their only credit on multiple databases, including Hong Kong Movie Database.

Yeah, so our main character, according to the subtitles was known as Fong. This is the scholar, the nerd of the film if you like.

Yes, And the actor here is Assuming Lao born nineteen thirty one, Hong Kong actor known for nineteen eighty sevens a Chinese Ghost Story, which we watched. He plays the tree devil in that nice two thousand and six is recycle nineteen eighty Seven's A Better Tomorrow two, as well as the two thousand and three film the Medallion. I think that's a Jackie Chan film. I don't recall offhand. I'm also going to just looking sometimes I just enjoy

I like his portrayal of this character. So he is the essentially the only non warrior character completely surrounded by warriors in every other direction. So he's not he's a he's a lover, not a fighter. But he's not really a lover either. He's a chronicler.

Uh.

And yet they don't portray him as like a like a coward. He is a brave non fighter in a way.

Yeah, like other move other movies might have positioned him as more of kind of like you're sniveling even comic relief character, but he's more of a scholar in sort of the traditional It's so it's sort of in the traditional Chinese sense of of like, you know, he is he is a he is a noble scholar who is recording these strange events and sharing them with a with with the with the with the surviving world. Yeah, all right, we also have Oh what a character we have Green Shadow.

I love Green Shadow. Sign me up for the Green Shadow fan club.

Hees Green Shadow for specialty. Seems to be flying around on wires and grappling hooks, and he's in like wire based martial arts.

I don't know when exactly this started in film, but yeah, this is. Her performance in this movie is cited as an example of what's sometimes called like wire fu or like wire work in martial arts films, but it's not one of those cases where like in some films, characters are depicted as having kind of a energy or magic power that allows them to sort of like fly or leap beyond what would be normally physically possible for humans, and that is achieved via wire based special effects. In

Yeah, so yeah, she's a wire specialist and she's a light played by Michelle Young born nineteen fifty six, Hong Kong cinema actress. This was not her first film and I think it kind of shines through because she has this kind of I don't know, just this sort of this effortless charisma in the film. Yeah, just just very likable. She's a lovable scamp and just did a light every time she's on the screen.

In this situation of like death and disease and high stakes conflict and factional fighting and betrayal and secret murders, she's just always extremely cheerful and two steps ahead of everybody else.

Yeah. So yeah, she's a lot of fun. She's also in the nineteen eighty cannibal movie We're Going to Eat You, and she was also apparently a popular force on Hong Kong television for a long time.

Love Green Shadow, but I would say this movie actually has a lot of really charismatic martial arts heroes in it. The other main fighter hero we follow in this movie is Boss ten or ten Fung, and he I also found him super charismatic, even though he's less of a nice character than Green Shadow.

Yeah. Yeah, he's you know, he's a professional criminal in and gang leader, but has this great stern face, this great presence. I would almost compare him to sort of a snake pluskin sort of a vibe, you know, an Old West kind of a vibe. You know again, very stern face, very stern presence, solid performance, great at great

Yeah, so obviously his stunt work in the martial arts scenes is great since he's the stunt coordinator. But also I think he does really well as an actor. He's got a great face for the role. He has this kind of stone like kind of immovability in many scenes where you're just like, you know, no, he's not gonna budge all right.

The next character we have is the Master of the Castle, Master Shum. I've also seen it as Shin in the credits. This is another strong screen presence for reasons we'll get into. But the actor here is Ku Chu Cheng born nineteen forty eight Taiwanese actor, active from seventy four through present. His other films include nineteen ninety one's a Brighter Summer Day. Ninety six is Maijong and nineteen eighty one's Love Massacre.

You know, I was kind of surprised by the Thunders. Like when they were first showing up, it really catches you off guard because you don't really know whether they're good guys are bad guys. And that really continues, like

Yeah, yeah, so fun character. I did. When a Thunder started really showing up in Earnest, I was also a little bit worried because I'm like, oh, my goodness, is getting more complex. Yeah, I'm not gonna give track of everyone, all right, Just one other actor I'll mention Tino Wong plays Thousand Hands Lea Kim. He was also the action director on the film. I'm not necessarily all in the clear on who did what on this movie, but he is credited as action director and not just a you know,

Another great martial arts focused performance here.

Yeah, and then the score is by Frankie Chan born nineteen fifty one, Hong Kong cinema composer, actor and director, who, in my non expert opinion here absolutely knocks it out of the park with a score full of more traditional feeling wusha motifs as well as bonkers synth notes that hit you right in the boards of Canada.

And then there are funky parts.

There's a little funk there too. Now I'm not clear on like how I couldn't find any details about the score, and I know sometimes you're dealing with a score in these movies that maybe are borrowing from multiple sources, So I can't say with any clarity how it all came together, or if this is all original, or if it's coming from other films or stock et c. But yeah, I loved everything I heard in the movie. That first synth cascade upon seeing a butterfly that really knocked my socks off.

There are a lot of moments in this movie where you suddenly get an extreme close up of a butterfly, and then there's something that's I don't even know if I would call it music. There's kind of a rhythmic thumping or drumming sound that becomes very loud. It's almost like you are hearing the movements of the butterfly's legs or wings on the scale of an insect. But it's like a John Bonham drum fill and it's really cool.

He's credited with composing on a number of other films, including seventy eight's The thirty Sixth Chamber of Shaolin, nineteen eighty's Encounter of the Spooky Kind, seventy six is Mass sur of the Flying Guillotine, And that one gives me pause on this whole, like how the music come together, because I know that's one that give memory serves famously draws from Western music sources.

Yeah, too great effect, I mean, in a brilliant way. Yeah.

He also is credited on seventy five's The Super Inframan, seventy six is The Oily Maniac. A lot of movies we've covered, yeah, And his directorial credits include nineteen nineties Outlaw Brother.

All Right, you want to get into the plot. Oh, let's get into it, all right. So, as I teased earlier, it's kind of difficult to figure out how to approach this one, Like should we try to explain the whole plot or employed the skip a bit brother principle from Monty Python. I'm going to start off talking in some detail, and then if if we find this is too too much, maybe we can we can zoom out a little bit.

Okay, sounds good, all.

Right, So the film begins with narration. It shows a mist blowing in front of a full moon, and the narrator,

Yeah, I mean he's kind of like a master of a guild or guild of warriors kind of a thing.

Yeah. So Fong tells us a narration that there was this first war in the dim Chong Mountain. Many were killed, Hungry condors filled the skies. There was a second war in Wodong Mountain or in the bottom of Wodong Mountain. It says there many were killed again. And then it says from that time onwards, quote, most masters in the martial world were all dead. Thus the martial world entered the Quiet Period, lasting over thirty years. On the surface,

So already we're kind of in the deep end here.

That's exactly right. Yeah, that's how I understood the setting. There used to be a bunch of martial arts heroes. They all killed each other. Then there were thirty years without martial arts heroes, and now the martial world is returning.

This would be a great They keep doing, you know, sequels to all these fighting games, and it's always the same thing every time, like do this instead.

Yeah, I think it's a good prim Okay, But the narrator goes on to explain his own place in this, he says. In these warring years, a traveling scholar, untrained in martial arts, recorded the important events of the era and sold them for a living. His name is Pong, and I am that one, he says, to this martial world. I was an observer, but inevitably I become totally involved.

This is a good sort of taste of the subtitle character. Yes, is that it's it's you can follow it, but there's a little but there's some nuance missing there.

Yeah, there's some translation issues and things get clearly getting lost in the translation to the English subtitles. We can mention a few more moments like that as we go on, but overall, yeah, you can follow what's happening. So we see we see a man come over the horizon and crunching through the sand. He wears simple robes, appears to be a humble and quiet fellow, and this is Pong. Fong approaches a castle surrounded by tall grass, and then there is an explosion in one of its towers, and

From the Bridge to Metallica? Is one? Like I can just imagine it, James Hetfield belting it out like da da da da.

Dut confidence shot dada. But no, it's it's a kind of uh lilting ballad sort of melody.

Yeah, it's nice. I think you probably hurt part of it in the trailer audio we played. But now you know what it's said roughly.

All the while this opening credit sequence, while the music is playing, it is trying really hard to make butterflies look menacing, and to my surprise, succeeding. We see butterflies landing and alighting from rocks along the bank of a mountain stream. Then there are several shots where butterflies are not flying, but perched on the rocks and just sort of pumping their wings rhythmically while they stay perched there.

I loved all the little details in this sequence. I feel like he does a really great job establishing the setting and the sense of enterprise here. It was just really drawn in. Again, this is a technically a very proficient film, so you know, all this stuff that might be sort of wasted motion in a lesser film is all very ink.

I agree. I feel like this director is really skilled with setting and situation. This is a movie where you always have a really good feeling of where you are and what it feels like where the scene is taking place. Yeah, now here we get our first real time scene with dialogue. A man, a kind of suspiciously behaving man, comes into the paper mill with a proposition for the boss. They

What is it?

The mysterious visitor says he came across this book by accident, but that it is the memoirs of Pong describing the quote unusual events of the last ten years, and this causes like a music sting. The boss is surprised. He almost sort of spits out his pipe, and the visitor says that the boss will make lots of money by selling this book. Okay, so the boss of the paper mill is not just making paper, not just printing on it, but I think also operating a bookstore and selling books.

So already we have printing press drama in this film. What was going on? What was this mysterious apparently fraudulent work that was they were trying to get published and distributed. We'll we'll find out later on in the film.

Yeah, why would this guy kill a print boss for refusing to or for refusing to print this book or for recognizing that it was not Fong's handwriting? Well, next to the narration tells us that the bar bridge, the place where the printing press was and the paper mill was, was in the territory of tin Clan's White Flag. So that's one of Boston's gangs. So it's like they control

They'll refer back to him, I believe as wasp. So apparently poisonous Wasp was not like they weren't caught, you know, it wasn't profanity. It was like, that's just his name. He's poisonous Wasp.

Yeah, okay. Narrator goes on to say in the sixth of the New Era, drought struck bandits abounded. The living was difficult, starvation caused cannibalism. Those still strong enough were busy digging up graves. Thirteen royal tombs in Wei Ying were dug up in one night. General Ping Nam's tomb in Butterfly Valley was rumored to be full of treasures.

And again like it's effectively done. The animals attack element of this film is on the whole more believable than most of the other all animals attack sort of films that we've talked about in the past, Like far more terrifying than frogs.

Yes. Agree. Also, there was a green fireball in the scene. I don't know what that means, all right. So amid all these hard times and bad things going on, we finally see a meeting of multiple tin Clan warriors. So the White Flag Warriors meet with warriors dressed all in red. I guess these are the Red Flag Warriors. They are gathering on a cliff on a misty mountain slope. The Red Flag gang is led by a woman named number ten. The White Flag gang is led by a man named

Yeah, yeah, it does. Again. Part of it is the fact that the subtitles are a little bit confusing. It may not be the case if you're watching it, you know, as part of the intended original audience. But yeah, a lot of this feels like maybe we could have cut this and maybe simplified it a little bit, because it's not all going to be essential once we get into the second half of the picture.

But the Red Flag Leader and the White Flag Leader discussed it. They talk about how they think Boss ten is trying to gain repute and that there there's a vendetta among the seventy two. I guess the seventy two what was it called smoke trails? Yeah, that I guess are different different gangs arising in this new era. And so the fights between them cannot be solved. And their boss, the boss of their gangs, is trying to look good. I guess trying to get repute.

Yeah, just a great deal of martial arts gang drama going on.

Yeah, and then done, dun done. Suddenly heavy music sting, heavy bass and sudden, and the boss is here. The boss pops up. This is the first time I think we've seen Tinfung. He's also got another guy with him. They sort of jump out from behind a rock and everybody's like boss, and oh boy, Tinfong the boss has magnificent hair. He's standing with one leg up on a kind of pulpit of rock on the mountain side, overlooking

If he were to ask if we could dig it, I would have to agree.

We can dig it. Yeah, yeah, But he explains to his fighters. He says, three days ago, Shume Castle sent me a secret letter. The master of Shume Castle and I only met once five years ago, yet he's asking for my help. An unusual event occurred at the castle recently. They say what event, and the Boss says, butterflies. Bathel looks all around.

Now we have we have a call to adventure here, we have the invite to the spooky Castle.

That's right.

Uh.

Then and then specifically, this is another one where I would guess that the original line is delivered in a very hard hitting fashion, but the way it's phrased in the subtitles doesn't quite capture it. The sentence that he speaks is they found butterflies which kill in the castle.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it, clearly it's better in the original language, but that's what we get via subtitles.

But here we get like a cut to an extreme close up of a butterfly head. The heavy drumming sound I mentioned earlier, and it's laying that groundwork. It's making butterflies scary. So the Boss says, I'm going to go to the castle. I need the white flags and the red flags to go ahead and set up checkpoints on the paths around the castle, to surround the castle and monitor who comes and goes ahead of time, and I'll

Oh.

Also, Tinfung sends his lieutenant Big Eyed, to the castle ahead of time to sneak into the castle find out what's going on. So Big Eyed says, all right, boss, and he goes to do that. But next we follow Tinfung on the road, traveling alone, apparently in disguise in a hood and cloak. There are a lot of disguises in this movie, but he's walking along a path in the country and then he suddenly stops and calls out, you've been following me for two days, come on out.

Yeah, and she's just instantly delightful.

So Green Shadow swings through the air, crosses the path in front of him, then appears dangling from a rope. Green Shadow is a young woman dressed in sort of forest green robes. She is kind of a cross between Spider Man and Predator. So, like like the Predator, she uses the trees, you know, she swings from branch to branch, but like Spider Man, she's kind of a web slinger, like she swings from wires and ropes and zips around

Yeah, she's on top of the situation and she's she's she's here for a good time.

Also in the scene, I don't know if tinfoone is just he happens to be crushing a butterfly in his fist, but he gets around asking Green Shadow, why are you following me? And she says, I've always been interested in other secrets. Yeah, we can tell Green Shadow you know everybody's secrets before. Yeah, you clearly are are nosy. Now they appear to have some kind of pass like they know each other. It's not not really fully explained, but I don't know if they've been enemies in the past

Now I just kind of picked up like maybe it's like a professional thing, you know. It's like, well, of course I know Green Shadow. Everybody's heard about the exploits of Green Shadow, and of course Fung is the boss, so everybody knows who Fung is.

But we do know she's not one of the seventy two factions that are fighting because Green Shadow warns him. She says, many amongst the seventy two are coming for you. Boss Ten says they'll all end up the same. Green Shadow says, I'm not amongst the seventy two, so I should be the exception. So Green Shadow offers to help him. At first, he's kind of stand offish, but she reveals she knows a lot. She knows what's going on. She knows he's going to the Shum Castle. She knows what

Yeah, and this will come up time and time again.

Good point, So Ten isn't going to trust Fong. But then Green Shadow makes a good point. She's like, at least he's not amongst the seventy two, so you know, Ten knows he's not one of the enemies that's coming for him. So they agree to go to Schum Castle together, just as he ordered. Tin Fung's gang is already there ahead of him, and they report that there has been neary a peep from the castle, no lights, no smoke,

Yeah, it definitely has more of the vibe of a European or American Gothic castle set as opposed to like a really ornate Chinese dragon. Because I mean, it is obviously a set, and we'll see it later when it of course explodes, because you can tell, you can tell this was made to blow up. This thing's blow up and crash at some point, and it will in spectacular fashion. But yeah, this scene and all the other Like again,

I agree as an aside, I feel like that is a really important and underappreciated skill in filmmaking, underappreciated by a lot of audiences. The importance of a director making you using film to make you understand and feel a setting. You know, there's some filmmakers who are really good at this, like I would pull it, like the Coen Brothers are really good at making you, like understand the feeling of

Yeah, And it's effortless and it doesn't require language at all. So it's one of those things that the subtitles don't get in the way of that because it's speaking directly to you no matter what your native tongue is right.

But anyway, the White Flag fighters come to Tinfong to inform him that they have found Big Eyed. Big Eyed is dead, his body lying beside a pond in the courtyard. His skin is covered in scorch marks and black smudges, and inside his clenched fist is a butterfly. Of course, Tinfung is furious at this to find his lieutenant dead. Just then he and Green Shadow finally meet someone who appears to be an inhabitant of the castle. It's a

All right, so already you know We've got this strong mystery gothic plot developing here, mysterious castle, strange events. People with diverse backgrounds have been invited to witness what is unfolding there.

Here. Master Shum explains the backstory, and so we see it like re enacted as he tells it. He says, earlier this year, on the fifth day of the fifth month, there was it was a day to commemorate his ancestor's death, and so we see a sort of temple shrine within the castle grounds and there are offerings. There's like a roasted chicken and a pig's head and a fish being

And this is a great set, Like the more details we get, the more amazing it is. Yeah, it's like they're living underneath the Gothic castle in this complex that it seems just increasingly. I mean, it's expressly described as a labyrinth later on, with lots of confusing twists and secret passages.

So just great setting, agree, And I love the rooms they find in these passageways later on. But oh, we also get some backstory about the third person there, about Chi, the servant. Lady Schum explains that she found her alone while traveling away from the castle years ago, that she was deaf and mute. So the lady. So Lady Shum brought Chi back to the castle with her to live there and serve as her personal maid. So we met

I think, yeah, I guess it's supposed to be like a study. I think we might more realistically think of it as his secret study.

Yeah, so Fong says, why did you bring me here? And Schum says, do you believe in ghosts? Fong takes a diplomatic view that I think could be read multiple different ways. He says, ghosts exist if you believe in them, otherwise they don't. And I feel like you could there are a few different ways you could take that. I don't know how you read it, Rob.

I mean, I took it to be like Thong is a no nonsense kind of guy. You know, it's like that that realizes that belief in ghosts is a powerful thing, even if ghosts don't exist.

Yeah, yeah, that's sort of how I took it too. But then I also wondered if, well, maybe he means, like, ghosts do exist and have power, but only over those that believe in them. And yeah, but I don't know, Yeah, either way it works. Yeah, anyway, Master Shum starts talking about the anniversary of the death of his father, and there is a there was a funny moment here with like the way the subtitles work, with like the timing.

Yeah, it has to be the same, right, Yeah.

Master Shum says his father lived peacefully for ten years after this act of grave robbing. But then one day ten years later was attacked by a swarm of killer butterflies. They assaulted the castle in the form of a cloud and descended to slaughter many men that day, and in the reenactment we see butterflies circling the towers in the castle walls. They leave soldiers and servants lying bloody in the courtyard. There are a lot of these sickening close

Yeah. The subtitles are again generally confusing in places, but rarely like actually, goofy, This is I think maybe the one real exception, And I had a nice hearty laugh about it.

I think what it must mean is let's work it out together. I think he's saying like, we will solve the problem. That's how I took it, right, Yeah, that's I think clearly what they meant. But I also I couldn't help it. Then imagine like, yeah, let's go work out, let's let's hit the weights Yeah, some of these characters might work out together, but I don't think it would be Fong who would do it. He does not even lift. Okay. Meanwhile, we get a report to Tinfung about Big Eyed and

Yeah, kind of the Scooby Doo section of the film. There's a lot of creeping around. Who's creeping? You're not really entirely sure, but hopefully masks will be pulled off later on.

Oh boy will they? So Suddenly the sneaking around is interrupted by a scream. One of Tinfung's White Flag soldiers is found lifeless on the ground up above, killed in the same way as Big Eyed. I guess by the butterflies, they're really piling on the butterfly deaths at this point, so Bosston he comes up with a solution, gets his warriors together, and he says, cover the castle in nets. So surely these nets will prevent any butterflies from getting in. Is that going to work? Is it going to work?

But will it look cool? You bet it will.

They're like, they're really just like stacking butterfly murders every couple minutes at this point between the flashbacks and and what's happening in the present, So we also see the Red Flags out hunting. It's mostly like the White Flag warriors who are hanging out at the castle with Boss Ten. We see the Red Flags out hunting for butterflies with handheld nets, and they remark that there is not a single butterfly to be found in a twenty mile radius.

Now this is highly suspicious. Now we seem to be getting somewhere with the butterfly mystery.

Right, So Fong and Green Shadow discuss whose work the collection could be, possibly the servant Chi. They note that they both thought that Chi had been with them separately at the time the White Flag soldier was found killed the previous night. So how could Chi have been in two places at once. Hmmm, we'll come back to that, but oh no. Next, Master Shum is attacked by butterflies inside his meditation room. He's but he's like locked inside

Yeah, this is where we get the will reading, where it's like, oh, he left a will? Should we read it? Should we gather everyone together? Are there agents or individuals out there who don't want us to read the will? Oh? I think that might be the case.

So yeah, Lady Shum says, Master Shum left an unusual will. It says, quote, my dear wife, I have a wish left. Let out the message carrying pigeon, and in three days time, Shin, Quack and Lee will arrive. I have a letter to be read to them. Remember, read it in all three's presence. Remember, So these new characters are being introduced in Quak and Lee. Who are they? Well? Fong says that it's rumored that

Okay. The other two we definitely see though, and they play important parts, especially Quark, who mentioned in the cast.

But they're both really cool. So the Thunders are on their way, and Tinfoam warns his fighters not to confront the Thunders. This is a danger situation because on one hand, you've got Tinpholm's warriors. You know, they're fighting for power. But the Thunders are these other extremely dangerous martial heroes, you know, these people from the martial world, and you put the put them all in the place together, They're

Now, not discounting other influences, of course, but I mean, one can't help but be reminded of John Carpenter's later film A Big Trouble in Little China, in which we have the four Storms, who are exceptional martial artists slash sorcerers who have all sorts of crazy weapons and abilities, and you know, here we have the three Thunders. So you know, I can't help but wonder if this had any influence on the ultimate form.

Of that film. Well, I think I've read somewhere that the same directors other film, Zoo Warriors and the Magic Mountain, was a major influence. It's on a big trouble.

All right, we'll have to come back to Zoo lawyers. It just sounds too entyson, but.

The film goes a great length to express and it's good to hammer home here that this is a dangerous situation having Boss ten and the Thunders in the same place. Because these are rivals, they are likely to come into conflict. Now. Next, there's a scene where Fong, the scholar, questions Chi, the servant at the castle. He asks her about the lepidoptery room with all the butterfly specimens, and she confirms that

You know, it's again kind of interesting synchronicity here because for our Crossbow episodes that aired earlier this week, I was reading, you know a great deal and need them about about gunpowder innovations and gunpowder weaponry in ancient China, many of which used crossbow or crossbow related elements, And you know, none of what we see in this film here even really captures like the weird variety of gunpowder based weaponry that was developed in China over the centuries

Now, next we're going to meet some of the Thunders. They don't arrive at the castle conventionally because, like the White Flag Warriors are sort of outside awaiting the arrival of the Thunders. Instead, we see the Thunders meeting each other in secret, already underneath the castle. They're in the tunnels beneath the castle. It's a very cool creepy scene where Lee and Quak here appear in shadow, wearing hoods and cloaks at first, so their faces are hidden in darkness.

Yeah, a lot of distrust here, but yeah, but it would also seem like, well, we finally have all of the characters in play that are going to be in play. He might well think this, but he would also seemingly be wrong, because they are more mysterious individuals who are going to show up and impact the plot.

Right, But before the last really important character shows up, we'd get a few more sort of like scenes of Green Shadow and Fong, our two main investigators working out what's going on here. So they meet one night. First of all, it's funny because Pong's just like out for a walk and Green Shadow does wire stunts like just dropping in on him while nothing's going on. So they talk about killer butterflies. But then Fong and Green Shadow

You know, coming back to where he said about Green Shadow, it really does feel like Green Shadow has not just walked down a hallway or just strolled from point A to point B in a very long time. It's always on wires.

Yes, I love it. She's living that wire life, you know. Also more plot updates. Remember those eight pages of Fong's memoirs from the paper Mill, Well, Tinfong shows them to Fong and Pong confirms, Yeah, the guy the paper Mill was right. I did not write this. This is not mine. Somebody is forging works in my name. Fong reasons from this because the pages of his memoirs are stories about

And the scene, Oh, the armored Warrior is just absolutely terrifying, just you know, black armor, seemingly just impossible to hurt. You can't name him or stop him. Just a strong proto slasher vibe here. And he eventually busts out. A lot of his action is just more like punches and grabs and throws and then like some sort of like

I was going to compare his weapon to the goat foot lever that we talked about in the Crossbow episode. It's like it's a claw hook weapon that's got like two toes on it. But yeah, this rough material almost like barbed wire strung between the two toes. Yeah.

I looked around a little bit. I couldn't find anybody talking about this and comparing it to known weapons. So I don't know if it actually has anything like a real world analog, if it has something it's supposed to be inspired by, something to do with butterflies. I don't know. I'm assuming for now that it's just, you know, purely a creation of fantasy. But it's very effective.

But the scene is interesting because it starts as like it's like a slash or horror scene. This, you know, this monstrous war attacks Lady Shum in her chamber. She escapes, the fighters get there in time to defend her and chase this warrior off. But then there's like a series of awesome fight scenes. So it's like Tinfong versus the armored Warrior, and Tinfong is cool. We finally see him in action. He fights with this another strange weapon. It's

Rob I'm not sure now does this baton shoot things? Or am I thinking this is just a straight up baton?

I don't know. There are some things that shoot things. I don't remember if his shoots things.

Yeah, things get very The fighting is again kind of mind melting, and there are a number of unique weapons being utilized. Pure fantasy action here.

But then there's also Green Shadow versus Armored Warrior, and she uses wires in her fighting of him. But eventually the Armored Warrior escapes into the night. He gets away, so they don't get to catch him. They don't get to unmask him or know the identity of the killer. Now Madam Schum thinks she knows the identity of the killer. She thinks it must be the third Thunder who hasn't arrived yet, Shin, And she's like, maybe he wants to get to the letter or the will that Master Shum

Yeah, the Thunders are not to be messed with. You're gonna get shredded, you're gonna get blown up, you're gonna get caught on fire.

But then later the two Thunders we see investigator. They're running around in the tunnels underneath the castle and this is Lee and Quak and they catch sight of the Armored Killer. They see him and they're like hey, and they chase after him in the dark, and this leads to the Butterfly room, the one with all the butterfly

This is a great kill sequence, and it's one of these where like the way we describe it, like okay puts them in a headlock, rams his head into a pot that it doesn't sound as impressed, but the way that it shot, it's very thrilling and feels like just very viscerally violent, even though it's not like super bloody or anything.

Okay. Next we get some big reveals. Like we said, there are a lot of twists that come in this movie. So next we follow Chi in the underground tunnel by herself. Remember she's the servant who carries the lantern, and she wanders with her lantern and wearing a mask over the bottom of her face. What's she doing? Oh, suddenly we see her walking not just through the tunnels, but she's walking into a cavern like an opening in the tunnels where she's surrounded by butterflies, and yet she's not afraid

I guess, Yeah, this was one of the moments where I'm kind of piecing it together. But I'm blaming the subtitles for my lack of a pure understanding of what we're dealing with here, because again, so many things in the film like just makes sense on a visual level. You don't need the subtitles to explain what's happening. But there's some sort of like magical potion based explanation here, and we're not getting.

All of it. I mean, I think I'm following what's happening. I could be making mistakes, but essentially here Chi is caught Green Shadow and the scholar Fong appear they have been watching her, and they reveal they say, we know you're not Chi. You are Madam Schum disguised as Chi. That's why there were two cheese. There's the real Chi and then Madam Schum has a Chi costume that she puts on and she like hides part of her face

Okay, all right, fair enough, Okay, it's all making sense now.

So Green Shadow and Fong here are confronting her. They're like, now you're gonna tell us everything that's going on, because we know you're in on it. But they're interrupted by the armored warrior in the black armor, the mask, the weapon. He comes out and Madam Schum is killed, and the armored warrior escapes, and we see butterflies crawling over Lady Shum's dead body as if to mourn it. And then later the armored warrior comes back and caresses Lady Shum's

Okay, I'm buying all of that, but I still don't know why we invited people to the castle. I don't know why the secret will. I feel like there's a lot of stuff that I can't quite stitch together.

Oh no, no, no, I think I understand it. So take me Master Schum and Madam Schum here. They used killer butterflies first of all, to get rid of all the spies in the castle, because there were spies here sent by the other thunders to keep track of you. Okay, so they drive all the spies out with butterflies that either killed them or made them flee. And then they keep using the butterflies and attack so all around to

Okay, so everything is going is going according to plan here. It's about getting these all these great warriors together, having them destroy each other so that he can rule over everyone instead.

Okay, yeah, that's right, all right, I could again.

I feel like I would have been on top of it had the sub titles binge is a little tighter, ye, But I'm there now.

I mean, it is a complicated plot, but I think it's a good twist, and so Schum basically admits, yep, Fong, you figured it out. But men who know too much cannot live. So he reveals his claw weapon and he's gonna kill Fong. There's like a chase, and then all kinds of different fighting happens. Schum ends up killing Chi, the actual servant. Chum then fights Green Shadow. Fong watches as Shum fights Green Shadow. He's helpless, he's not a fighter, he can't intervene, and then Tin Fong shows up and

I have to and I have to drive home here that you know, I'm not like a Hong Kong action completist or anything. There are a number of like very prestigious Hong Kong action films that I haven't seen, so I can't like speak universally in all of this. But all of this action is just blistering. It's just very like technically proficient, you know, well shot inventive. It's just

And I really love that the different heroes have their different like fighting styles, so when they trade off fighting the villain. There there's a lot of variety in the fight scenes. It's not just like a samey kind of fighting over and over. You get Green Shadow with her like wire stuff, you get Boss ten with this little baton, you get of course, the you know, the Armored Warrior with his scary visceral kind of fighting with the claw weapon, and then of course you get the Thunders. So after

Yeah, kind of like a hyper accelerated zip line death sequence that if I when I explain it like that, it doesn't really sound like like you probably can't picture it, but within the context of this ridiculously elaborate three way fight scene, it's highly effective.

Oh but it's not over because Magic Fire is still alive even though he's like trapped under a pillar. He sends his killer bird after ten and you don't know what the bird's gonna do. It's just like a bird flying around chasing Boss ten. What's going to happen? Well, you think Green Shadow comes to the rescue. She's here to save ten. She flies through on a wire, She's going to save the day. But then, oh, the most devastating ending do you want to explain, rob.

Oh my goodness, yeah, I mean, I'm not going to say that the stunningly nihilistic ending came out of nowhere because issues with subtitles aside, it does seem like we were ratcheting up to it. Like there's this sequence when the sky there's leaving where Hang and Fung have this last little conversation and Fung is like, I hope you win, and it feels you know, very stark and and and in dark, and we end up like flashing back to that here in a bit. But yeah, so Green Shadow

Yeah, but there is a symmetry like it talked about in the backstory with the narration at the very beginning. The movie seems to end with all of the martial heroes have killed each other. They're all gone now, and the only one left is the chronicler to tell the story.

Yeah, so I mean it really really packs a punch. Again, just a fitting way to cap all of this just you know, essentially like high tech fantasy martial arts that's happening here and just have this just again just very nihilistic ending where everybody dies. But again, like I say, it doesn't it. They were clearly building up to this in many ways, so it doesn't feel forced in any fashion either.

So in the end, I'd give a big thumbs up to the Butterfly Murders. It is not only it's Bonker's premise of killer Butterflies. It is that, but it is so much else. It just gives you so much to work with and it keeps you guessing.

Yeah. Absolutely, so, yeah, highly recommend this one. And you know, I hope it gets a better release at some point in the future. It would be great. But on the other hand, I didn't see any indication that that's coming, So I would say, don't you know, don't waste time. If this interests you, go watch it in whatever format you can find it in, because it's it's worth the journey. All Right, Well, that's it for this episode of Weird

Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic for the future, or just to say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

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