The Science of Brain Wiping

what happens. You just curl up in a fetal position because it's such an awful memory and you just think, why why I was just sitting here, I was just doing the laundry, and then you just struck out of nowhere and this memory. And I won't describe it because I don't know. It's awful and embarrassing. Yeah, it haunts me year after year. Yeah, I don't happen to me. I'll think of like something that I said it was just really stupid once. Um. Generally not on on this podcast,

you know, but but something to see. I think of the things I say on this podcast and not crimming time, but you know it, Okay, It'll enter my mind and I'll find myself having to um kind of like do a la la la la la, I can't hear you kind of a thing. We're all we're all combat it with just like a really nonsense phrase like and then

he turned into a goat. Like that used to be a staple where I would think of something something embarrassing in the past, and it would be like, and then he turned into a goat, and then he turned into a goat, and that would like the image of something turning into a goat would help rid myself of of self stabbing with that memory. Well, not only is that a tip, but a little insight into the mind of Robert Lamb. Goat turn absolutely good. I'm richly amused by them.

I see that. But yeah, this this is the problem, and I think that some people would willingly undergo their

memories or specific memories being erased if they could. Yeah, yeah, what if you could go in and say, all right, instead of just having to go through this moment where I drop into a fetal position or have to think something stupid to combat something stupid, or then, how what if I could just go in and have it removed, Go into the doc and say, hey, I've got this memory I want removed, and they're like, all right, well think about it for a second. All right, I'm thinking

about it. Now and then whap is that it's very possible. Yeah, it's very possible. And there this is something that came up when when we were attending the World Science Festival in New York, I attended a panel of about the

Unbearable Lightness of memory. And there it was just like one of these sessions where they had had a number of these guys, um and and women that were just experts in the field of memory and are just on the cutting edge of of seeing you know, of of our understanding of memory and our exploitation of that understanding. And so it was a very mind blowing a couple of hours. And this is a topic that came up and that these guys were saying, Yeah, within our lifetime.

Some were saying, within the next ten years, we will have the technology to go in and selectively erase memories, because we are doing it on rats currently, um, you know, in some cases. So obviously that technology is going to

find its way into the mainstream. It is just a matter of how and when and um, will we be willing to undergo and why would we which we're going to talk about today, but we're going to talk a little bit more specifically about memories before we go into that, and we are going to talk about technology that exists now to wipe the memory in a clean fashion, not in a brain damage way, but in a rat because we all know that you can erase memories by damaging

the brain. But that's that's kind of dumb. That's like saying you can erase an ink by burning the paper. That's not really erasing the baby out with the bath water, right right, So we'll get into some of that as well. But yeah, first we need to talk about exactly what memory is, um, which is one of the big questions that's again it's when we're continuing to answer and one that we've been asking as long as we've had memory,

as long as we've had had intelligence among the species. Well, well, let's lay down some nuts and bolts because this is going to be important in some of the discussions that we UM have later on about actually how we how we would erase a specific memory. UM. So, what is happening when you're making a memory? Basically, you have nerve cells that are communicating by sending electrical signals which trigger

the release of chemicals across tying gaps called synapses. When these are the neural junctions, and then as one cell speaks to another, chemical changes at the synapse make it easier for the signal to pass. Okay, so this is important. If only a few signals are sent, this transforment transformation among a network of cells is temporary, resulting in short term memory. But if the signals keep coming through changes that the most active snaps has become permanent and they

create long term memories. It is literally an anatomical change to your brain. So it's I mean, it was just if you look at it this way, different day, different brain. Yeah, I was. I was really fascinated by that viewpoint, the idea that that at the addition of a permanent memory

is the an anatomical difference in the brain. Because we you know, we've talked about before this whole question of like trying to figure out who and what we are and the brains and ability to perceive itself, even if we are completely atheistic in our in our viewpoints, even if we're just the most scientific, hard boiled I don't believe in ghosts kind of guy, you or goal I'm I'm using guy in the non gender specific I know you are, but but yeah, even if you just you know,

you don't believe in any of this nonsense, you still can fall into this trap of of sort of thinking of yourself is this non corporeal thing that just happens during the bodies and we end up we end up not thinking about ourselves our memory as a physical manifestation. Yeah, And it is interesting to you to think of how we regard ourselves mainly by what memories are are we what shapes us? Our idea of ourselves is composed of memories,

right right? Um, So knowing that memory making is really very a fragile process and um, and not as straight forward as straightforward as we thought, really sort of is a game changer and how we perceive ourselves and and just it's amazing to think that we are constructing this reality out of a really flawed process, right, because flawed

in a sense. But but basically it comes down to the way we used to think about let's let's talk about that because because ultimately the way it works is the way it works, and it works that way due to um, you know, rigorous evolution, uh, and it and it is important that it works the way it works. But the way you're not not going to evolution. I'm just saying that it's not as ironclad as and we thought.

Our memories are ephemeral little things. Yes, and so just as an example, the old way of looking at how how memories worked, want a little something like this, you would learn something, UM, let's say you would learn that. UM. Let's let's think about what's the what's the most recent thing you learned about cicada's and their lifespan? Okay, well let's say you, um, you learned that cicadas um, some species of cicadas uh will are a thirteen year lifecycle

where they go to ground for thirteen years. All right, So you learn that, all right, and then you store it and then when you go to retrieve it, you retrieve it. So it's like I take the fact, I put it in the storage drawer the brain, and then I retrieve it. And there's there's no update process going on here. This is the old model. And then if you were to say then you were suddenly to learn, oh,

well there's thirteen and seventeen here. That's an addition, that's an update, but there's not really an update process going on. It's just like, oh, I'll store that memory too, well, the the current view is the reconsolidation view, and this is this is a little more complicated, and this is this is how it would go. You'll learn the fact, right, okay, cicadas years, you store the fact, all right, and then

you retrieve the fact. But when you retrieve the fact, uh, it goes through up date, reconsolidation, and then it's stored again. So the idea is that every time we reach into the storage center of our brain and retrieve something, be it a little fact about Cicada's or our family history or something about ourselves, we retrieve it and we update it and then we put it back. So it's it's ever changing. There's no such thing as this memory. Like the memories are not set in stone. They are um there.

They are these continued things that alter every time we touch it. It's kind of like if it we're a police case. You know, they're always talking about like the chain of um, not the chain of command. What is it with evidence? Uh, it's like a chain of possession

or something. I'll give a chain of obsession. Yeah, one of our more crime oriented or police work oriented of yours will correctus on this, but but yeah, they're very concerned with with who has the control of the evidence at any given moment, because they could flowt they could they could get fingerprints on it or tamper with it in some uh some way, shape or form. So if you look at memory, like that memory, every time you get it out, somebody's getting their paws on it. I

mean you're getting your paws on it. That you're adding new information to it, and some of that new information and you add may not be good information, well right, right, And when you're sharing that information, you're corroborating some of your information, right, and you're adding to it, and you know you've got the whole human experience sort of coming in and coloring that experience that memory, that data. Yeah, Like here's an example. Let's see you have She's a

who's a childhood friend of yours, Cheryl. All right, Let's say you when you first meet Cheryl and you're your friends with Cheryl and uh, and then you you go out roller skating and you fall down and then you're trying to go backwards again fancy, and then later on, um, you have a falling out with Cheryl and you begin to see think of Cheryl as um your enemy Okay, Yeah, so then you could conceivably retrieve that memory of you

falling down pushed me exactly. You add in this new information where Cheryl is the great adversary, and and now the memory is restored in a slightly different form. Now this isn't necessarily a false memory then, has it or a cover memory? No? No, but it's potentially flawed. It's also potentially more accurate. Who knows, maybe Cheryl did push you, but it's but it's changing. What I thought was really interesting is how much emotion can really determine what sort

of memory you get out of an experience. And you had a really interesting um example from the panel that had to do with nine eleven. Right, Yeah, these uh, you know, neuroscientists are are kind of awesome, and they're always I mean, you can you can say that they're a little too focused on their work in this particular example, but but I think it's it's very telling. Nine eleven occurs,

you know, tragic, horrible day for anyone involved. But these guys were instantly thinking, all right, this is a great example. This is a great opportunity for us to test how our memory reacts with traumatic situations. Because every because anybody you can ask that question, you know, it's like what were you doing on nine eleven? Or where were you when Kennedy was shot? For older members of the audience, you know, there would be some sort of people always

have really specific answers. I was in my living room, and uh, it's not necessarily accurate, right, Yeah, they did this study where they were they were act They were checking everybody's memory, doing test on it to see how accurate their memory was of their of their like what they were wearing, what they were eating for breakfast on nine eleven versus other times, and uh, and there was

there was actually less accuracy for nine eleven. And it's because there's less less activity uh in the in the pair of hippocampus, which is involved in the details, and it's um and it ends up being more of an emotional response. Amygdala is really active in this case, right, The amigdeala is the emotional seat, and that's where all the activity is of when forming these these traumatic memories, right where it's the the detail or did uh hi.

Hippocampus is taking a back seat to that, and so the pair of hippocampus is noting would normally note like what you were wearing, what time it was, those sort of details. But the interesting thing is people were so sure about it, like they're like, I was totally wearing a green shirt and eating fruit loops and that was that was it. I have this clean memory, and uh, it's we basically think it is an evolutionary response, Like

it's not just like some sort of flaw. It's because if you're in a situation where it maybe life or death, you may need to run for your life, you may need to make some very quick decisions in order to survive or do the right thing, your brain basically doesn't

want you to care about the details. So because it's in the fear response, right right, it's it's more reacted like you got to do something, dude, don't worry what your fruit loops are doing or what your shirt you were wearing, and and so you're sure about it because it's because it's the sort of the trick of the memory, so that you're not concerned with it. Yeah, okay, that

makes sense. And it also makes sense that people have are so sure about it because it was a very prominent at emotional experience, right, so it meant so much to them that they felt like, well, of course I was wearing this short and of course I remember every detail because that's how it felt to me rather than what it actually was. But why would we need to

to erase the memory? Right? Yeah, I mean, we actually have some very good reasons why someone would want to undergo this process, and we'll get to that right at its quick break. This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at curiosity dot com and explore the answers to

life's questions and we're back. Yeah. It's kind of a trickier question than than it may seem on the surface, because even when bad things happen to us, um, they become traumatic memories a lot of the times because we need to be able to avoid those situations in the future.

We need to or just embarrassing memory. You know, it's like it was really embarrassing the time, uh you know, you got up and uh you know, it made some faux pad a meeting or something, and so you are remembering that it stings in your memory, but you're not making that same faux pas every time you go into the sub meeting, you know. So, yeah, it plays an important role. It does. You're right, and even something is something.

I was just thinking about a friend of mine who went to a wedding and she decided not to wear any undy's but she had on a little other contraption and which I won't get too specific, because you know, we're a clean podcast here, But she was dancing in her dress, got caught up, and she moved the world, and you know, for the rest of her life she's thinking, always were underwear with this contraption always where, you know. I mean, it's important, right, And that's kind of a

low brow example, but still, yeah. I mean the movie that I'm sure everyone instantly thought of when they saw this podcast, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mine. I mean, the whole message of that is this is where the end of they go to erase this painful breakup so they and move on with their lives. But in erasing the painful breakup, they end up falling in love with each other. In the real world, you'd end up not learning from their mistakes, right, right, she would underwear less

mooning people for first of her life. And she didn't feel ashamefaced about it. Um. Still, if it starts interfering with your life, that's where it becomes an issue. Okay, So if it became an anxiety disorder, she decided not to leave her house or to ever, you know, she can even look at a pair of underwear or anything else. Um, that would be really traumatic. Right. And and of course on a more serious note, you see this a lot with people coming back from more with PTSD, and it's

it's a it's a horrible disorder. And the reason is because you are re experiencing the event again and again over and over. So you might want to you know, undergo some sort of uh process to alleviate that if you could. Yeah, especially when the response that it and that it that it brings up is not going to

be a helpful one. Like if you're just totally freezing, uh, you know, every time a milk carton drops in the in the grocery store, or if you're you're becoming super defensive and ready to you know, karate drop something every time there's a loud noise, that's not helpful, right, Same thing with phobias in the in the same sense where if you have an extreme irrational fear and you know it's it's shuddering you in your house then and in every time that you think of a memory and you

then augment it with this phobia, and then you predict the future thinking, oh, if I leave my house, this is going to happen. UM, then you would probably want to try to remediate that if it would be good to be able to do zap or up that memory as well, discussed here in just about Yeah we will um nice pun by the way. Uh. But then there's also something called residual neuropathic pain, which is a complex

chronic pain state that's usually accompanied by tissue injury. And you can see this sometimes in spinal cord injuries or patients undergoing chemotherapy or people with diabetes UM. And that's when the damage nerve fibers sent incorrect signals to other pain centers. And you actually at me a really cool

article about UM. Actually I think it was a blog post from the World Science Festival on pain and memory in the spinal cord and how your spinal cord is actually tagging that pain UM with the memory and calling

it up. And they used an example of saying, hey, you can't you slam your your hand on the door, and then for days afterwards, the neurons in your spine carry the pain signals more easily from your hand to your brain, and as a result, your hand feels more sensitive and even the lightest touch will trigger an unpleasant reaction.

Two groups of scientists have found that one special molecule p mk zeta, which we'll talk about, underlies both processes, and it helps to store memories in our brains and it sensitizes neurons in our spines after a painful experience. So much of this is related to pain, memory and

so on and so forth. Yeah, and it's going about in these cases, it's going above and beyond the simple of you know, importance of pain, which is, hey, don't do that because it's damaging your tissue, don't or be careful, there's something wrong with your leg. It's it's it's it's beyond that and it needs to be addressed. Right yeah. So okay, let's say you have a memory you want to race. You're going to go to a pro. What

are your options here? Well, one option, of course, would be cortisol curving drugs, right, yes, yes, which this was some really interesting to me. There are thirty three university students who watched a film to picking a granddaughter helping

her grandfather make a birdhouse. This is all related to the cortisol, which is a stress hormone, by the way, and in the film she accidentally gets her hand caught in the saw and yeah, and so of course these thirty three university students are sitting there in an emotional distress. And even though the film had a nice happy ending and her her hand was back on um, you know,

people were a little bit flamm x by it. So what researchers did after putting them through all this this dress is they collected saliva to measure cortisol again, that stress hormone. And then three days later, this is the really trippy thing about this, the volunteers were brought back to the lab and some were given a placebo, while the rest were given one of two doses of a drug that knocks back the amount of cortisol that courses

through your body. And then they were asked to recall the video presentations and lo and behold the people who were on the higher dose of the inhibitor for the cortisol. The harder it was for them to remember anything at all.

And they found this even four days later, Uh, the same thing when they administered the cortisol, This memory just kept fading and fading as opposed to the control group who had no cortisol, Which is really I think it's cool because you know, I have learned that cortisol, if you if you're if you have a lot of anxiety or if um, you know you're real stressed throughout the day in your cortisol levels peak can really mess with

your body. In fact, is it's a big cause for people um not able to sleep or having bouts of insomnia to because it really throws your body off. Um. And if anybody's interested in reading more about that. The study was published in the August issue of Journal of

Clinical end of Chronology and met about metabolism cool. Well, the other really fascinating option and this is the one that really they spent a lot of time within this uh the World Science Festival and uh and it was really like the reason I was like, oh, we gotta do a podcast about this is this substance called ZIP that they've developed. And one of the key guys involved in this is Todd Sacktor, who was at the World Science Festival to talk about this really amusic We like

do we I don't know. We should never do that, um because he will come at us with the ZIP stuff. That's right, Mr Sector never mind. Yeah, ZIP is basically in two thousand six, his team was able to use ZIP to erase the memories in the brains of rats and by neutralizing this p k M zeta that we were mentioning earlier, which again it's like the glue from him.

That's right. So when when we were talking about the all those uh memories really forming at the most active synastic synactic points, it's that p mk data that is the glue that is helping to solidify that memory. So that's important in this ZIP process. Yeah, they injected and they were testing it. They had like this carousel with like with one area of like this just this round area. They called it a carousel, but it's but one section

of it was electrocuted. So the rat is they put it in and the rat eventually learns where not to step because we'll get a shock. Then they inject ZIP into the hippocampus and it just it cleans out even very strong memories uh, you know, ones that have been around for quite a while and suddenly the rat doesn't

know where not to step it. It basically they there are different types of memories, and I should have mentioned this earlier, I guess, but um, you know, we have we have episodic memory for events, we have semantic memory for facts. We have conditioning memories, which is like the whole Pavlov's dog thing where you know, you hear a dent dog, here's a bell and start salvating because they

thinks he's gonna get food. And then you have these priming memories, which are which involves the unconscious activation of memory, um kind of reminders. So ZIP basically will knock out everything but priming. And it's pretty impressive. Yeah, I mean it's impressive. It's scary. It's also uh it could be a huge help to people if used in the right way. Right. Yeah, And the really important thing here, like like I mentioned earlier, is that this is not brain damage. In in sactor's

own words, it basically it doesn't hurt the brain. It just restores it to factory settings. Yeah. I know, but that's still kind of creepy. It is, it is creepy. I mean, no, no one has used this on a human. Um, it's really important to note them that we know of, I guess. I mean, who knows what's going on out there in the world, But as far as I know,

it's never been used on humans. Um, if it were the like I said that, the priming memories still be there, the sort of hind mine stuff would be there, it would't mess with any of that. But but yeah, it's it's it's it's kind of like the Bourne identity, except you wouldn't be able to do karate like that would be that would be gone. Um, you'd have to relearn karate. Yeah, you'd have to relearn karate. Yeah, Okay, I don't know,

I'm thinking about it. It's just crazy to think about, like, like what would that be like suddenly have that have the ZIP put into your brain and then it's just it just clears it out. Well. I mean, on the one hand, um, and this was posted on Facebook not too long ago. Uh, memory is sort of becoming a very different thing for us than it used to be thanks to the Internet. Right, It's it's not really as important. It certainly as important, right, but but for some types

of things, stuff fac like learning karate. You could probably go and watch a video if you need it to, you know, I mean the Internet is very much an external memory for us um and so rebuilding your your brain or your memory. I guess on the flip side of this, you've got their racing and then you've got the Hey, how could I make it stronger? How could I access memories? You could certainly even do that through

the breadcrumb trail of your social life on the Internet. Right, That would be interested, That would make for an I don't know if it would make for an interesting movie, but I can just imagine somebody like having to rediscover what their life was by going going into into their Internet accounts and yeah, what if you were horrified, which I can I cannot believe I wrote that, or you know who, who are these people? Or wow, that person

is awesome. Well, there's a there's a number of eco novel um and I forget the name of it off hand. It's the it's uh, not his most recent one that deals with like the Bridges of Prague or something, which I don't think is out in English yet, but the one proceeding that has to do with someone who loses their memory and I think they reclaim it by looking at like going and looking at the things they read in comic books and whatnot. But but again I haven't

read that one yet. Yeah. Well, and then again on the flip side that p mks data can actually be used to strengthen memories too. That's another thing that they discovered. They were able to put the more pkm zeta into a Rats brain and its memory would improve. And also it means ZIP is one of these things where no one is saying, like, we got this thing called ZIP, let's figure out things to use it for, and let's star using it on people and more rats. Uh No.

But but the process going on there tells us a lot about what's going on with memory. And we can learn a lot from the from these experiments involving ZIP and Rats. Well, and I always I'm interested in an experiment when when something unintentional and unintentional happens and it's a big breakthrough, like Okay, here's p mk zeta, let's let's try to zap it. Oh, by the way, we could also um instead of trying to lessen the amount of pichemist zeta, we could also bolster the memory and

make it even better by injecting much more of this. Yeah. Now, I mentioned earlier the the the whole retrieval and reconsolidation process, and there there's a line of thinking that this may be the key to erasing a memory, in that we recall the memory, we we take it out of the storage area, and we have it, and then we change it and we put it back. It's and it's reconsolidated. The new information is reconsolidated into it. And this again, this is not this is not a cheapening of anything.

This is not a this is not a flaw in the grand design. It's like, by necessity, we live in a world, as we said before, of multiple changing objects and symbols. You need to be able to navigate this world, so you need a brain that can update, you know.

It's like it's like if you if you're like me and you haven't bothered to plug your GPS system for your car into a computer since you bought it, Like roads are changing and and you occasionally encounter a new road and uh, and the device is like, I don't know where you are. You're in the middle of a field. I guess our brains don't need to work like that we need to be able to update with new information

from the office. When yeah, it's like that. So but they think that when we when are when during this retrieval phase, the memory may be vulnerable to so elective deletion. The idea of being it's kind of like like, all right, let's wait, let's watch what the brain's doing. All right, he's getting the memory out of the drawer. He hasn't in his hands, and then bam, shatter it and then

it's gone. Okay. So every time you take the memory out and you take it for a walk, so to speak, you're adding to it, but you're also taking away, right and and in that moment, they think, during that reconsolidation process, if we can develop a way to to to target specifically, that would be that this would be how you would do it, like and it would probably be a situation where you would have to think about the memory where they would be like, all right, start thinking about that

memory of such and such and and only think about it. But even that is fraught with peril because how do you know that that's the version of the of the memory that you're trying to You know what I'm saying. If each time you take it out, and the reality of that memory becomes even more distorted. How do you know if that's the point at which you want to delete that memory, or at least that portion of it. Well, because you don't really have any control about what you're

determining the memory to be. Come, I don't know, a little more hot water because the baths too cold, a little more cold, a lot of because the baths too hot. But yeah, and then eventually the bath is overflowing. But and this is probably why this is not going to come online anytime soon for humans, right or The other thing that I think about two is kind of like a Ghostbuster situation. Do you remember the end of Ghostbusters?

But the second one? Not the second one goes my favorite, and don't don't judge, I actually like the second one as well. I'm not one of those Ghostbusters two haters. But but Ghostbusters one at the end of it party in the street, well no, no, before that, when Gooser appears as the supermodel, the pink supermodel on the top of the building, all right, and they blast Goeser, but Ghoes is not dead, and Ghoser says, all right, I'm going to destroy the world. But the next thing you

think about is the form I'm going to take. That's going to be the form of the destructor. So everyone's like, don't think of anything, don't think of the thing, don't give this monster anything to me. And then dan Ackroyd's character thinks of the step of marshmallow Man like ends up trying to think of something in scent, and that

becomes the form of the destructor. So in this situation, this hypothetical but probable future situation where someone is brought into and they have to think of the their traumatic memory, the memory they want to race, like, think of that breakup, think of that time that um that you were covered in chocolate as a child and a goat lift you like, think of that and goat again. Think of that memory and we'll erase it. And then you're like thinking over

like goat looking at me, goat looking at me. And

then you're like, did a goat really? You know? But I saw a terrified child at a petting zoo once that had covered like one of these awful kids that had like had cut chocolate all over, hitting him or herself and was just acting out and then walked into the petting zoo where the goats were, and this like enormously pregnant goat was like, oh man, that's what I wanted exactly, And so the kids just freaking out, like the goat is scaring to give me, and I was,

I was ritually amused. But that was probably traumatic with the kid. But I just want to make that distinction that you were not a chocolate covered child. No, no, no, And I was just I was just witnessing it. But anyway, I can imagine somebody, you know, having to think of this, this traumatic memory, and then for a second they screw up and they think of something favorable from their past.

They think of like their mom's uh, you know, apple pie, or they think of you know, fishing with dad or something, or or they they or something like their own phone number or something important, and then zip, that one gets destroyed by accident, and you're still stuck with the one you wanted to get rid of, right, and you're like, great, thanks, that was a great valuable memory. And now my friend is still sick with the memory of dance around moon

and everybody. Yeah, and she no longer remembers her mom's name. Yeah, yeah, bum, Well, I want to leave you with this quote, Um, that I thought was really interesting. And uh, this is from Douglas Fields, who's a neuroscientist, and he talks about how important it is that we do forget things. Um, so I know we've talked about memory retrieval, strengthening memories, forgetting them. He says, like a midas cursed by how think his wish granted that everything he touched would turn to gold.

Permanent retention of memories could be debilitating. This is because forgetting it's just as important for learning as memory. Just as you have talked about, bad habits could not be overcome, skills would not be improved, Information such as as an old address or phone number could not be updated, and traumatic events would never fade from the horror that overwhelms a person immediately after the trauma exactly. So it is

it is important to scrub the mind. Yeah, and I will leave everyone with this quote because, Um, you can't help but think of all the ways that something like ZIP could be misused, just even today. Someone could use ZIP on somebody after like robbing a bank, so they wouldn't remember the details, or it could be used in various espenage situations at the corporate as well. At the World Science Festival. They asked Taught Sactride has has the as they said, has the Pentagon contacted you? And he

todd Sacktric thinks for a second. He says, not that I recall. Oh, I like it up. Yeah, because that really leaves you hang in Yeah yeah, oh boys, t Sack, he's wildy. Yeah. Of course if he'd really they'd really use zip on in his response would have been something like, who are all you people? What am I doing? Yeah? So, hey, if you have any cool thoughts on this particular topic and have or have questions about memory, because I'm hoping to do at least one more stemming from this, uh,

this particular World Science Festival lecture, let us know. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter. We are Blow the Mind on both of those and we're always updating those seeds with different stuff on each feed. Um. You know, links to lots of cool articles, lots of interesting videos,

and of course in our own blog posts and podcast topics. Yeah, and if you have ever successfully, like d I wide your own memory eraser, please let us know about it, um or if you have any other thoughts to share with us, You can find us blew the Mind at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how staf Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.