Ten Year Anniversary Special

Oh thank you. Alison, by the way, hasn't been on the podcast in a while, but she is the editor in chief of how Stuff Works dot com, which of course is the website that this show was born out of. Really that that all of the core uh stuff shows

emerged from right right on. Yeah, So I guess if you're if you're new to Stuff to Blow your Mind, you probably don't know anything about this, you'd be you may not have ever heard one of the earlier episodes that has the title Stuff from the Science Lab, But that's where it all began. Um, you and I co hosted that show. It began on January four, two thousand and ten, with two episodes were published on that day. One of them titled Amazing Infestations, in the other one

titled How Fighting Asteroids Work. And that was the beginning. And it's been what two episodes a week ever since. Did you go back and listen to either of these two podcasts and prepping for this episode? No, I didn't, but I thought back on them, I reflected back on the thing is one of the things I was definitely remembering about it is that, first of all, we had no idea what we were doing. For the most part,

that is entirely true. I was a science writer for the website and you were my editor, and so are what was his title at the time, Our boss, Connald Burne came to us and said, you guys should do a science podcast. What do you want to call it? And I believe we said, how about stuff that could kill you? Or stuff that can kill you or something to that effect, right, Yes, yes, it was. And so because it was how stuff works, everything had to be stuff.

You had to stuff in the title. That was the mandate. That was that was absolutely required. And we were like, well, let's make maybe we make it a little edgy, you know, it's about you know, explosions and supernova black holes, earthquakes. You know, we forgot we could get a lot of mileage out of that. But then that was rejected and he said, no, it's it's going to be called stuff from the Science Lab. And so that's why we launched with did you reject that? That that that goes very

counter to the naming conventions of podcasts today. Today, you might propose stuff from the Science Lab and they would be like, that sounds boring. You need to do stuff

that will kill you right. Well, one thing that we we came across pretty quickly is that the name it didn't really fit what we were producing because it some people thought that it meant that it was going to be very technical, that it was going to be very science and slab, and so they came in and they were disappointed by that because it wasn't uh you know, it wasn't like it didn't have that that level of depth to it. It was a much shorter show at

the time too. I think we were generally taking individual articles that we've worked on together and spinning them off into like sometimes like twenty minute episodes. I think, so it was it was a much shorter show. It was a in I also remember again coming back to the fact that we were totally new to this audio recording thing.

I remember we would go through and do a complete run through of the episode first and then attempt to come back and do it again, which seemed like a great idea at the time when we we we did it that way, and we quickly realized that was that was not the way to approach the show. Like it. It kind of boiled out all the organic conversation. I think I remember doing the same thing when we first

started podcasting. Yeah, when I was when I very first started with UH with UM with Lauren Vogelbaum and Jonathan Strickland on forward. Thing we would do like rehearsals, horrible idea, absolutely brutal. Yeah, and then it makes you just even more sick of the content when you get around it. Uh, it removes any authentic enthusiasm you have for it. I don't know what else am I am I'm missing about

the early days of the show. Well, we did throw in a couple of science jokes which are ever so humorous. Oh yes, like like straight up jokes, like almost we did. I think that was a bit that we're like, well, maybe we should have a joke in there. Yeah. I think we were also asking listeners who to submit their science based jokes. It was a bit of a clunker. Um yeah, you know, looking back, I would say Stuff

from the Science Lab not the most inventive name ever. No, no, And that's that's probably one of They eventually came back and said, all right, stuff to Blow your Mind instead, which is a good title but also has continually produced. Um it has provided uh, you know, ready material for any when he wants to say, well, that episode didn't blow my mind, and so it's I have to say, I don't think it's a great title either, because it's not every topic is going to blow the mind whatever

that exactly is. I like the idea of an expansion of the mind more, you know, and we might not be expanding it by much, but maybe just a little bit. And I think that's what we were trying to do with Stuff from the Science Lab as well. Agree I think that. I mean, there are a couple of things and play their podcasts were just starting to break and Kardle wanted to get in there, and I mean science was a strong suit of how staff works. He was. I mean, we were also looking at the business model,

just straight up double dipping, right. I mean you'd already been immersed in this stuff like writing these articles, and I had, of course spent a long time carefully editing, so we were trying to, you know, make something else to reach folks who maybe weren't going to read it, but maybe they would listen to it. And then thirdly, I mean we were just kind of in line with the mission of the site, which is always, always, always to just be explaining the world as much as we

can in an accessible and direct, incredible way. Yeah, the mission to demystify the world. Um, those sometimes you have to mystify it a little bit too, to make the things that are normal and mundane seem you know, awesome

and inspiring again. But but yeah, I agree. And in terms of double dipping, I mean that was another thing too, Like this was very much a oh, by the way, once you've done all this work, um on the written version of this and the edited version of this, and it's been published, and you picked out art for it, and the arts been edited at the end of the day, go ahead and squeeze out a twenty thirty minute podcast episode about that topic. It was not the priority, uh

mission for the company. Man, Quadruple dipping was like the rule of the day. When I was hired I think in summer of two thousand ten to be an editor at How Stuff Works. It was like the research that went into writing an article would not just be an article, but it would also become a quiz uh maybe an image gallery like list or you know what I mean. Oh, Joe, you were on the air, and Robert both of you. Both of you all were on the air. So I mean, why not, like, let's make a video script to yes

the video era. Let's yes that. That was also a big one. Um. That has gone away for now. Well, the pivot to video will return. It's part of the ever changing cycle of media platforms. It's a well played pivot. By the way, Hey, I have a question for y'all. How do you think the show has evolved in the years it's been on the air. Oh, well, that's a good question. Um, I think the mission statement has always

been the same. Um. Also, I think a big part of it is that everybody that's worked on the show has contributed to the voice of it, not not only like the individual episodes, but just sort of like the shape of the show. So you played a vital role when it was Stuff from the Science Lab, and then when they changed the name, Julie Douglas came on board. Julie Douglas was a vital, uh you know, part of the show for for many years. When Christian was a

part of the show, he too. You know. Everybody brings their own sort of pyramid of interests, their own favorite topics, and I think a big part of it has always been, you know, to to say yes to to whatever your your podcast partner brings to the table, because inevitably, like even today, like Joe will be excited about a topic and I don't necessarily get it at first. Sometimes I

might even think this sounds kind of dry. I don't know, but but I but I trust him on it, and I follow him down the path and and it always leads to something amazing. So I think that's been the case with with everybody though, and and and so each each person that has been involved has sort of broaden the scope of the show. And you guys also have magic between you, right, Yes, well there's the magic too. Um no, just science. We have technology. We're like Batman

more so than Superman. Yes, and that brings in the various editors who've worked on the show over the years, which is a long live of audio editors, and I don't even know that I was able to include everybody

as far as I know. Uh, the list of editors for Stuff from the Science Lamp Slash Stuff to Blow your Mind are Jerry Rowland, uh, Tyler Clang, Matt Frederick, Noel Brown who also composed the current theme music, Alexander Williams, Tary Harrison, Maya Cole, and then currently Seth Nicholas Johnson. I don't know if I forgot anybody. I'm terrified that we have, but yeah, definitely our producers helped bring the magic because I mean, you would not want to hear

the unedited form of the show. But that's like stopping, oh wait a minute, do we already talk about this, well, that I'm just not saying words right and then to back up yeah, or or having to double check something

after you've said it. I think that's that's something that a lot of people don't necessarily understand about the way we do the show or how some of the other shows are done here, is that they'll see something like the Joe Rogan experience where they they listen to the podcast and they watch a video of the podcast taking place before their eyes. And then you might easily think that we're doing that as well, and hopefully that's the illusion via the editing. But no, we're gonna have starts

and stops. Uh, it's it's an edited product. It's finally edited. I will say, because I was listening to the Santa God episodes that you put out right here for the holidays, which I I'm just gonna be a fan girl, and I really liked them. I thought it was super representative of the podcast brand, and like the way you brought your lens to it, like just this very specific stuff to blow your mind, like academic curious, you know, playfully intellectual.

It was just they're really good. Totally dug them, thank you um. And then of course you went back and listen to the the original episodes as well. So really you're the one who has more room too well to critique me anyway, to say to what degree I've improved or not improved over the past. Deck Robert, you're super solid and you sound exactly the same. Okay, well that's good or bad depending on how you look at it No, No,

I think good. Okay. So I remember what it felt like when I first tried to get on Mike for for the first podcast I was recording, and it was terrifying, paralyzing. I had no idea what to say, I had no idea how to talk. As soon as the you know, light went on. Do you all remember feeling like that, Like, did you have the same kind of uh fear and inability to act or I don't know. Did you take to it better than I did? I remember getting the fear sweats, yeah, and it really took a long time

for that to go away. Always I think I'll even occasionally get them uh where I'll feel like I'm I'm sweating like a fearful animal. Um. But not so much anymore. But back in the day, for sure, Yeah, absolutely I did. I always felt like there was more prep that could be done, that it could be tighter, you know that I did articulated concept as finally as I could have. Um. Absolutely,

I was totally nervous and pretty in the dark. Yeah, I mean all we had to go on, I mean we had editor feedback, and certainly when we started out we were working with Jerry and so she she was the the in house expert on what a podcast was and what it should be, so we had that to go on, and then we had listener feedback, which could range from very helpful to not helpful or or you'd

end up fixing. I remember fixating sometimes if someone would right in and say, oh, you're saying um too many times or or whatever the particular you know, the annoying thing is you're doing, and then you become hyper aware of it for a while, and you try and curb yourself, and then eventually you kind of give up and you realize, well, I'm just going to largely just be myself and I'm just going to try and be comfortable in that second

guess everything I'm saying. But but at the same time coming back to you know, always feeling like there's something where you could have added, I think with stuff from

the science Lab especially. That was the case because we were putting so much time into this written product, uh and as a writer and editor, you know, at the end of the day, we were hoping to have this the best possible version of this thing to put on the website, the best possible article, and then we were sort of trying to do the same thing with the audio version, which was a big ask, especially considering you know that it was, like you said, a triple dip

piece of content, and ultimately, podcast as they've been put together at at how stuff works were put together to how stuff works, they ended up taking on a more organic feel for the most part. They weren't this tightly

produced thing. Um, at the time, we're your early podcasts conversational, like, did you feel like you were having a talk with each other that in any way was genuine or was it more just kind of like an information delivery system in audio form, which is still have some people think of podcasts today. I mean, occasionally we'll get the criticism that says, like, you guys don't need to talk about

these things, you know, just give us the information. Yeah, stop having a conversation and just tell us who invented the telephone. Um. I don't hear that very often, but every now and then I'm gonna say that. Yeah. I think in the beginning we were a little awkward and it was a little bit like an information delivery system because we want to make sure we got our points

out there. We wanted to make sure they're accurate and you know, like Robert was saying, we wanted to make sure that it was it was a good listen, you know, a tightly produced asset. Um. So yeah, Joe, I think it sometimes aired on that side. Um. And then I think as we got more comfortable with it, we recorded maybe eighty episodes, probably because we we basically went till fall of that year, and that was when they rebranded

the show. And the weird thing was I definitely remember that by the end we were I feel like that was when we'd actually really found our groove. Part of it being that we like some of the usher was off, you know, they were like, oh, we're going to rebrand the show anyway, and so we're like, okay, we can just sort of have some fun with it. Um, which in a ways, I mean kind of tragic because like we were the show. If they've given it a little longer, you know, it's like we were on the right track

with it. You know. It's funny. I'm not sure that we would have gotten as long of a runway now if we were to try to launch such a show, right, I mean, we would have been killed within you know, a couple episodes. Maybe we'd have been wildly successful, or we would have been a sponsored podcast and therefore there have been like a mandated number of episodes where it

would have been seasoned. I mean, there's so many there's so many different versions of what a podcast is now compared to what at least we thought of in house at the time. Like I remember the weird things when when everyone's talking about podcast I was thinking, Oh, yeah, podcasts are these music shows that I listened to, Like I was thinking to primarily DJ Mix podcast that was pretty mu the only podcast I listened to. And then also some MPR shows that were repurposed as podcasts or

sometimes like just Pira did as podcast. I remember being given a CD filled with this American Life episodes and like that was that was essentially podcast, but it was like the piraated pre podcast version of that. Did you all have a sense at the beginning that you were in any way competing with that kind of thing? Were you like competing with these highly produced NPR shows that, uh, you know, I have all these like resources and editing and all that, or or did you just think, oh,

we're just out here doing our thing. Um, I'm gonna answer for myself. So Robert I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Um. I think that we sort of or I sort of felt like I was operating in a vacuum. You know. It's sort of, um still interesting to me to hear my voice out there on some you know, episode or something. Uh So, no, I don't. I didn't think of myself as competition. I didn't think

of us as competition. That said, I think I think it is competition, right, I mean, I'm stating obvious here. What about you, Robert, Um, I mean I still kind of to this day, I look at a show like Radio Lab and I think, Okay, Radio Lab is Star Wars, you know, and in the best, you know version of that, you know, like it is it is. Yeah, and and just also wonderful content. I love I love that show. Um. And But then our version of the podcast was not

a feature motion picture. It was maybe like a TV show, you know. So it's like we were operating like that. It was a different product. Were they in the same genre? Uh yeah, it was there some crossover from from the content from time to time, certainly, But but yeah, it never really felt like like we were actually competing with them, because it was just a different product. It's like we we made socks, they made underwear, or vice versa, depending

on where you stand on socks versus underwear. I guess you made socks. They made suits of armor. Yeah, we made socks. Yeah, they made um like samurai swords or something. But but still, like when you were in a good pair of socks, nothing else samurai sword will not cut it when you want to pair of good socks. Um, And people are super loyal to their brands of socks.

But but another thing you you were asking about was like, how, um about organic conversation in the early episodes, Um, I think like that was something we kind of had to learn because the weird thing about the kind of conversations we had then and we have to to this day on stuff to put your mind, is that you're not really having what is an organic conversation, You're having a

version of it that someone's gonna eavesdrop on. It's kind of like having a very intentional conversation at a party because you know a particular person or some stranger that you've just eyeballed is listening to you like it's a weird beast. Well, yeah, I don't know how exactly to explain what we do. I mean, it's not normal. It's not like something that people would normally find themselves doing.

But it's not fake. When we have a conversation, it's not a performance, but it's also but it is a performance. It's like an organic conversation that is also a performance but also has a bullet point, you know, a bulleted list of facts that need to be uh, you know,

administered to the audience, right. I mean that's something that comes up in the tension, Alison, you were mentioning earlier, like you know, you wanted in the early episodes, you were saying you wanted to put together a good product that like what was the real value of how stuff works At the time, it was like factual, well vetted sourced information, you know, stuff that you could factually rely

on to whatever extent possible. And and I think that can definitely tend like when you have that as a goal in mind, that contend to make you want to produce something that is a more kind of tightly controlled

product like that that tends naturally against organic conversation. Uh So, I know it's like this has always been part of the difficulty, you know, in in my experience and podcasting is balancing that, like, you know, real off the cuff, approachable kind of feeling with making sure you get everything right as best you can. Right. I think that particularly in the subject areas of science and of course history. The history host who have had to do this, you know,

and very just on the mark. I mean they have to do umteen hours of research. I don't know what their research count is now, but obtain and a half. I think the day alright, time to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. Okay, folks. So we all know how a VPN protects your privacy and security online, right, But here's a new cool fact. It can take your TV watching game to the next level. You can use a VPN to unlock movies and shows that are technically

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of Express vpn for free. Support our show, watch what you want and protect yourself at Express vpn dot com slash mind blown. Than All right, we're back. I'd love to hear Joe and Robert where you think the podcast will go and where you want to take it specifically. I mean, could we depend on this conversation happening in another ten years. What are your thoughts about the future. Well, I hope so, because that also means that all of us are still alive, which is a good thing that

podcasts still exist. This is also a good thing civilization is still around. Will we survived the podcast wars? Great podcast wars of Yeah? Um, I don't know. That's I've always always am terrible at those where do you see yourself in like ten years, three years, two weeks kind

of questions? But um, I mean there's certainly. One of the things about the show is that there's we're never going to run out of content as long as scientists are out there doing their work, as long as archaeologists are out there, you know, exploring the past, historians are taking apart the past. As long as there are their experts working in all these fields, Like, we have material to pour through and dissect and at our own spin

and interpretation on. I feel like even if all research stopped today, we could keep doing this show for the rest of our natural lives. I mean. One of the things that's been shocking to me about the show, or maybe not shocking. I don't know. Maybe something that I always had a kind of unnatural faith in is the idea that almost every subject, if you look at it deep enough, becomes weird and becomes interesting stuff that might not seem that way at first glance, if you just

keep going deeper in, it gets there. And then if you if you look around its sources enough, Like how many times have we found something where it's like, oh my god, this idea from the V and D's is wonderful.

Or who I found all this great stuff about tridents, but it's from a book in the nineteen thirties, you know, Like to your point, like, if no additional writings were composed, we're not saying we want that, by the way, No, I mean it would be easier to catch up, obviously, but but but no, if it's if everything stopped, there's still so many wonderful nuggets buried in, uh, in the material, and so much of it that has only become really

readily available. Uh, you know since the show began, I mean, the the online resources have really changed the way we do our job. I would say that is absolutely true. One thing that has changed big time since I started doing podcasts is through various means. It is much easier to get your hands on primary research now than it was like ten years ago. That so huge, I mean, sourcing is so huge, and I really really enjoy how you guys do that in every single episode with the

Steady than just a quick reference, but it's there. Did you show notes as well? We know, we just didn't. We We we used to sort of do them and then they got kind of dinner depending on how much time we had our owners, that's the case. And now we don't really have a website anymore, so we don't really have a place to put them. So that wasn't really our call, but they kind of solved the question for us, Like it's not even an option right now.

But I mean we we do try whenever possible. I mean, depending on the subject, you can't always like do full references on everything, but we do try pretty often to like give the kinds of citations that if you wanted to sit down and write it down, you could look it up and find it. Yeah. The problem being is that a lot of times we're dealing with names that either either we're butchering the pronunciation has the individual's name, or well it's just a hard thing to look up. Famously,

we are bad at pronouncing names. But maybe that's a case with all podcasters, because I hear other podcast hosts

say that they get dinged about pronouncing names wrong. Yeah. Well, certainly if you are ever listening to the show, uh, at least a recent show or even an older show, and there is a source you're curious about you want to check out for yourself, and you you you aren't able to find it, well, you know, drop us a line, email us and we'll see if we can't send you a better link or at least you know the the official author and title so that you can look it

up on your own time. We get those sources, and we get these types of questions a lot on the website, to which I find encouraging, and I will usually, you know, see what I can dig up. Or are somebody's referencing a source like, oh, I think this might be the right way to go to research my wife's medical treatment, And I'm thinking, hey, why don't you try to say Cochrane dot org instead for this, you know, comprehensive review

of breast cancer research. Um, but I do. I have noticed that more people are sort of coming and asking like where did this come from? Can I get the primary resource? Uh, you know where this originated? And I really like that. Yeah. I think that the Internet might be in some ways now a little bit better and in some ways a little bit worse in terms of source uh source consciousness. I think people are more skeptical of web pages and just like what somebody says on

the Internet than they used to be. Um. The downside to that, I think is that also sometimes comes with a kind of um unquenchable like conspiracy denialism that just like you know, where you can't really accept anything. Yeah, that can be a little bit scabilitating. Did you get that too? We do, we do, of course. I mean yeah, I mean people are very quick to call fake news

on you. Yeah, for sure. You know, at this point I think we should we should probably just talk about like the current state of the stuff shows and how stuff works dot com because not everybody is familiar with this. Not everybody is going to like have how stuff works in their their their news browser, you know, so that

they get updates about it. So basically one of the things that occurred over the past what several years now was the again, all these stuff show those stuff to about your mind slash stuff in the science lab, stuff you should know, stuff you missed in history class, stuff

they don't want you to know, etcetera. They all started as part of how Stuff Works dot com, but then uh, these two properties were then split into two separate divisions, the podcast division and the website division, and then the podcast division was purchased uh apart from the website, and so currently this show and the other stuff podcasts are part of the I Heart Media I Heart Podcast division, but they're still sort of considered how Stuff Works podcasts,

which can be confusing to people. Right, I totally totally get that. I've looked at our wiki, you know, our Wikipedia page multiple times and that says, you know, I have to give some props to the hard working editors of Wikipedia. They've got it right there, and I think they actually got a lot of things right these days. Yeah, I just said that. Oh no, this is a funny thing I think I've talked about on the show before. I would never use Wikipedia as a final source of information.

Great jumping off point, but I think Wikipedia is a is about as reliable as lots of editorially controlled sites. If not better. Uh, and I'm not including you there, Alison, but like I mean, like you, you will go to sites that would appear to have editorial control that I think are more likely to have errors and and you know, incorrect citations and stuff than your average Wikipedia article. Yeah, I just wanted to give Wikipedia props. I feel like there are a lot of people who are working pretty

hard on it to produce an improved product, for sure. Anyway, I only that was a tangent there of Wikipedia tangent if you will, um, but they do get it right currently, and so System one being the website. So System one is a website's parent. They're out of Venice Beach, California, and they do user acquisition, whereas you all are owned. The podcasts are owned by iHeart. As you were just saying, But we're all still friendly, and we all still work in the same building. Yes, so we're all still in

the same building. So so all friendly, But got callers on that prevent us from talking to each other. If we do, the buzzer goes off. But no, but but but certainly inviting you on the show involved asking you to come down from the eighth floor. Yeah, it was a heck of an elevator right coming down that fourth floors. But also a lot of the folks on staff at I Heeart no big surprise are wildly talented and our writers and I don't know, we just find occasions to

still interact and be a curious crew together. Yeah. So, so talk a little bit about what's going on with with with how stuffworks dot com and uh and what what your your role is as editor in chief. I have a good job, y'all, I really do. I feel very fortunate. Um. I have a small team. We have

a small team and editorial team based here in Atlanta. Uh, and we are well, first of all, we're searched driven, right, So to step back a little bit, how stuff works comes up a lot when you search, right, like whatever you're searching, whether it's for particle accelerators or on um, Savannah Cat. We've been doing a lot of cat contently, like good figure Savannah Cat, Savannah Cat. Oh man, they're crazy, Okay, UM, yeah, I recommend that one. There's some really interesting cats. You

like cats too? Um Yeah, I'm I'm coming on the fence with well, I mean, I one of the things about Robert that we all kind of know is he's not like a huge fan of dogs, but like the cats. That's true, It's true. Yeah, that was the thing. Like you were a dog person, I was a cat person. And it's the same dynamic today. Yeah. Yeah, my cat keeps exploding these days, so I'm a little uh, I'm beginning to question my, uh my, my funness for cats

versus dogs. I'm sorry. Do you know that in one of our first early episodes of stuff from the Science Lab, I believe it was on Komodo Dragons, Crazy Komodo Dragons, there's a sequence in in which you imitate your cat wretching. Oh, well, that's wonderful. I should go listen to that. That goes in the sound bank for the people who make music

out of our mouth noises. The I do remember the Komodo dragon episode having a lot of like really gross stuff in it, Like there was stuff about Komodo dragons like slinging intestines around to like remove the fecal matter from them so they could eat the intestines, and babies

hiding from the parents so they wouldn't be consumed as well. Yeah, and we were, we were doing that episode in tandem with a Discovery Show because we were at that point owned by Discovery and it was I think it was Life in which there is a good feature about Komodo dragons, so we're kind of looking into them at that point and learning all sorts of crazy x. The Komodo Dragon

well has not run dry. I think it was just last year that Robert and I did an episode about parthen of Genesis in the Animal Kingdom and we talked about Komodo dragons, Virgin Birth and the Komodo dragon world. And they're still one of my favorite things to see at at a zoo. Whenever I visit a zoo, I will definitely check out the Komodo dragons. Even though they're probably not going to be moving much, they're probably gonna

be pretty stationary, they're still pretty awe inspiring. Yeah, they're oh, which reminds me. You're asking what we're up to at houss dot com. I'm gonna put in a quick plug with somebody who has been on your show before. We are going to be doing an event at the Atlanta Science Festival, So if anybody who's listening is based in the Atlanta area, he's come on out. We're gonna do how snakes work, and that's with Mark Foundation. I'm really excited about it. It's going to be in March. Yeah.

The Atlanta Science Festival is is pretty great because it's it's pretty varied. I find each year there there's so many different types of things to go to. A lot of it very very family friendly. Um I think I've been to. Um, let's see some of the things I've been to include like amphibian walks, like where you're going out into the into a park to look under rocks and find amphibians with Mark and his crew. But also salamanders, right yeah, yeah, yes, salamanders. Yeah. Uh so that was

a lot of fun. But then there's also stuff with like robot competitions put on by different schools in the area, a ton of great content. They really blow me away with with their offerings every year because it's like almost a full month of of material, right, Yes, yes it is. There's some hard working folks behind it. I really appreciate what they've done for just kind of greater science knowledge

in the area, along with yourselves of course. But getting back to it, yeah, so I mean it has to works to say we really are still we haven't changed that much in the twenty plus years we've been on and that is our mission is pretty much still the same. We want to satisfy your curiosity. We want to answer your questions about the world, whatever it is, whether it's about Bob sledding or impeachment or particle accelerators, or what the differences between you know, a road and avenue and

a boulevard. Do you guys know? I didn't know, but we just do not know. Can you spoil it for us? You're gonna have to go look at it. We also, I mean we also, I mean, so we write on the big and we write on the small. I mean, that's just the nature of the site. I mean, we just put out an article on you know, our pringles really potato chips. They're not right. Well wait, they're made

of potatoes, aren't they. But they're not. There's some there's some court action involved in this, fright, and to ask, huh yeah, uh so we I'm guessing the other quick do the math for me. That's moon dust is the rest of it. I was gonna say, salt, it's like throat shredding regularly makes your pringles. I can, but if there were pringles. Now, I would probably eat several of them there, man, I would eat like a whole can a whole sleeve. Is it a is a sleeve of pringles?

Do we know the correct terminology there? It may be a sleep tube. Yeah. They do come into the tube, but you want to like dump them out into your palm so you don't have to reach your hand and get it. Like the Pringles arm band. I feel like one of the real appeals of pringles is that when you're done with the with the tube, you can stick

your arm in the tube and have tub bands. They had pringles here at the office a while back, and um, I happen to be a day when I was in here with my son and he's like, all Pringles, that can I have some Pringles? Not sure? You can grab a canister of pringles. Got the canister and we got into the car and we're leaving the office and he opened it up and it was one pringle somebody for their tears. Um no, it's just confusion. And I'm like, okay, I'll buy some Pringles. So yeah, we were going to

a store anyway. So anyway, yeah, so I mean city for prinkles. So oh, I mean we're also interested, I mean in two thousand twenty, just like you all just in being like they need to be as transparent as possible. You know, that means sourcing, That means attribution. That means you should know when the article is published. That means if something, if a lot of people are looking at something, we need to have eyes on it and make sure

that that are that information is up to date. Uh. A key example there would be our US draft, how the US Draft works articles trending because government website went down and here comes ours like on the rise. What do you know? Our information is good, it's factual, The draft processes not changed. It trends like mad and we need to make sure, like when I see people are looking at that, it is my responsibility as editor in chief of How Stuff Works to get you the best

information you can have. So I mean that is we're laser laser focused on that in two thousand twenty because it is so important to think about your sources and credibility is very important. And we are a small publisher competing with a lot of other folks out there, so come see us. Yeah, that's great, Yeah, deep respect And just I want to say sometimes I wish we had an editor on the podcast and had more didn't like,

had more eyes and more process. We have a wonderful audio editor, but you know what I mean, like a like a content editor. In some ways I miss that approach because it gives you more confidence going out, you know, and like and we work really hard to make sure that we're on top of everything. But it's you know, it's just Robert and me, you know, in our research, and we're just like blazing through everything at the pace we do and and and trying to get it all right.

I mean, and I hope we usually do a good job on that, but man, it would be great to have an editor to like have another layer to go

through on everything. Yeah, I mean, this was what I was enjoyed about working with you, And still when I when I occasionally freelance an article for how Stuff Works, if I get to work with you on that particular article or or any of the editors there, it's like somebody to uh tell me when I'm doing something wrong, uh, in to to correct sort of the nagging mistakes that I will keep make and if left in my own devices,

will never fix. Uh. It's I mean that's that's one of the essential roles of of of having an editor. Like an editor makes you better at the thing you do. For the record listeners, Robert and Joe are both very good writers, and if you haven't read any of their stuff,

you should. Yeah, I was fortunate enough back in the day to get to write some of the some of these, uh you know, a big multi page articles about a given topic on how stuff works and uh and it's there the sort of article that you hear people referring back to later on, you know, being something where you know someone wanted to know about, say steam technology or nuclear power plants, and and being able to like go there as a you know, an initial source as a

way of a sort of figuring out how this technology works. It's being discussed in the news, you know, and um and and and I love that how stuff works is is still a part of that conversation. Is still uh still out there creating content like that and updating the old content as our understanding changes. It's trum endlessly valuable, in depth, comprehensive, deeply sourced. Those kind of articles are amazing.

So look out for us in two thousands twenty, we're gonna be writing lots of new ones, and we're also going to be um taking kind of a pruning project on because we, along with lots of other sites, have inherited content that maybe isn't as good of a fit. So, I mean, we are going to take stuffs. As painful as it is for me as an editor to take things off of a website, we'll probably be doing some of that too. Um, but we are here, We're around, and we need you readers. Go to how staff works

dot com. Make it find out what an avenue is, learn about these Savannah cats, Um, learn about the draft you know the truth. I looked it up while y'all were talking. So it turns out roads don't actually exist. Uh uh, streets are only in Russia and everything else is a boulevard. I don't think that's true. That's misinformation. Show Alright, time to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. Thank right, we're back. So what stories are you looking forward to covering next year? Looking forward

to covering? I don't know. I haven't thought or prepared about this well. I mean, on one hand, like to two topics we covered very recently, there were kind of updates. First, of all, hopefully we'll get to see some more interstellar visitors to our solar system. It seems like there's a very good chance that will happen, since the hubbub about a mum right sort of was partially quashed by us finding another one much sooner than people expected to write. So I'm very curious to see if we we see

more of that. In Likewise, there's the whole issue of the Solowessi hunting scene that was discovered. Uh that that seems to date back at least forty hundred years, which is twenty thousand years older than some of the oldest hunted the oldest hunting scene that we've seen previously, and four thousand years before the Loan minch, which was this the what was previously thought to be the oldest depiction

of a human animal hybrid um. So, you know, if if the research holds true on that, and it looks like it probably will, like that changes the way we understand the the evolution of human thought, you know. And uh So, on one hand, it's gonna be cool to see more research into that particular find, but it also highlights just how much more there is to potentially discovery you know what new findings will will emerge that will force us to rethink, you know, what we are and

how the how the world works. I'm excited about upcoming black hole stuff. So of course nine was a great year for black holes. I think it was in April that the first image ever of a direct image of a black hole, to whatever extent you can have a direct image of a black hole was released. It was the MD seven galaxy, which is like fifty five million

light years away from US uh. And that was done by the event Horizon Telescope, which is a you know, telescope array of different radio telescopes on different continents around the world. They pooled the resources, synchronized combined data and produced this amazing image which I'm not so it wasn't

made out of visible light. It was made out of radio signal, so I assume they had to make some decisions about how the data would be represented as a color scheme when the image was released, and their choice of that gold to orange spectrum has a very haunting primordial quality that I really like against the you know, the black background. It's kind of out of more door and I think big thumbs up to that. Um it's it's one great example of why the aesthetics of science

matter a lot too. Also, just a sheer level of collaboration. I mean, I'm so encouraged by like the dozens and dozens of scientists that are working on these like huge you know, like Lego or something like that, Like just people working together towards you know, science. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, the the collaboration is as phenomenal because again, this is like, this is not something that one telescope was able to do.

This was a collaboration across at least three or I think four different continents at least both the America's and Europe and Antarctica. There might have been one in Africa. Like they're all over the place that had to collaborate to put together this picture that we got. Um And yeah, and so of course we love black holes on the show. We we've come back to the topic several times in

some multipart episodes. There was one thing I was just reading earlier today that makes me think that there's probably more black hole news on coming next year, which was I think there's some new research about how solving problems about how supermassive black holes are formed, because there's this mystery where, you know, we can see supermassive black holes way out there that are so far away that we know that they must have been formed very early in

the universe. So where did all the super mass come from? They had to be gobbling up matter, we would presume for like billions of years to get to get as massive as they are, but obviously they haven't been doing that because there you know that they were formed very early in the universe. So what's going on with that? I think there's a new answer to that, but I can't recall what the answer is, so maybe we'll revisit that in an upcoming episode. Yeah, I'm for scherre looking

to a lot more exo planet discoveries. Yeah, this past decade was kind of like the exo planet decade, wasn't it? Like from beginning to end there is an amazing arc of exoplanet research to where uh, and and and don't take this too seriously, but to the point where exo planets have almost become mundane news. Yeah, it does feel

like that a little bit. I agree. Now, now here's something that comes to mind too and talking about it anticipating topics they're going to be discussed scientific topics, and otherwise it will be discussed. Is that. Of course, it's not just the scientific discoveries that that command what sort of science articles you're gonna see online. Sometimes it does come from what's popular with motion pictures. For instance, a Man came out. I guess we've had two of them now,

always saw the first one. But when when aunt Man came out, like suddenly, people were like, yeah, tell me more about how physics work at a smaller scale, tell me more about quantum physics, and you know whatever, whatever, you know, any kind of like science that is dealt with, even just you know slightly in a movie like that, does Paul Red squirt formic acid? Did they get into that at all? Maybe that's in the sequel. But but but seriously, though, like that's that's one thing to think about.

For instance, in we're gonna get the first half of the new adaptation of Frank Herbert's Dune, so we're probably gonna see a lot of science articles coming out about, um, you know, how a still suit could potentially work but based uh, you know on modern meta materials. Things like that. I always look forward to. We were there first we did Science of Doune episodes years ago when it wasn't cool,

when we just sounded like total nerds for doing it. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about done at some point this year as well. But yeah, I'm I'm not even sure offhand, like what ore they're like science fiction films are coming out that they are going to be prime candidates for that sort of thing, or what Marvel films will be coming out that uh will force us to um reconsider scientific topics. You got to pull the weight on that one because I don't see these Marvel movies. I am

not hip with it. I don't know what's happening. I'm not as good about keeping up with them as as I was. But i mean, really, how do you ignore them when they come out? They're they're huge, They're kind of you're gonna watch them on an airplane at some point. I saw a Black Panther and it was good. And I watched like The X Men with Sansa in it, and then that was not good. That's about it. Well, that wasn't an m c U film. That was that was difficult. I'm looking forward to Black Widow. Oh yeah,

that's right. I forgot that it's gonna be like a spy action thing, right, I believe. So, Yeah, well, maybe there'll be some cool gadgets in there that will be worth exploring. It would be very good. I mean, really, it would be essential to do something on climate change

on stuff table your mind in the near future. Yeah, I think especially because many of these uh you know pretty confidently climate change linked linked weather patterns and disasters have been becoming increasingly hard to ignore in the past few years. And when we think about the wildfire problems this year and uh, uh god, I mean the Amazon Yeah, that's a downer, isn't it. But I mean something you

got to talk about it. We'll be covering. I mean, we all have an obligation to uh to run those stories, right Yeah, and then how stuff works. Dot Com already has some fabulous resources on that count. I mean your article on climate change. We've been doing all this year. We did, we participated in covering climate Now we're hundreds of media outlets just strove to generally bring climate change and climate change stories um to the public and publish them.

It's cool. I feel like this is something that you know, I guess we all work as science communicators. So there, this is something that's worth pooling our our our intellectual resources about. Um, how do you how do you get attention for stories that are not inherently fun like the climate change is that It's like, if there is a single subject in science that people need to be aware of and you need to have stories brought to their

attention about, right now, it's probably climate change. But like the climate change stories are not very enjoyable usually to read about or to listen to. They can be kind of depressing or you know, it's so like what, Um,

I don't know. I didn't mean to just trail off there, but like, yeah, what what kind of resources can we bring from our storytelling capabilities to get people on the hook for these stories the same way they would be for things that are naturally more fun, that are easier to understand, that are easier to get excited about and have a reading or listening appetite for. They're not all going to be rosy stories. But I think that we are having some success with like the collective human consciousness

being applied to this mega problem. UM, And I think it's important to note those successes. People are making changes, like there are a lot more electric cars on the road. Um, you know, we have gotten a lot more creative about our usage of energy and we're thinking a lot more about it. So I think, Joe, that you do have to kind of be positive and I think you have to break it down. People don't like being powerless, and so you have to make sure it's accessible and doable. Okay,

we know we don't necessarily live in Australia. We can't control these fires, but are there other things that we can be mindful about? Is there a talking point I can have with my child when you know we're talking about, you know, being out in nature or something like that. Like there you have to relate it on a local level, and I think you have to incorporate some positive points. YEA like one, like a couple of positive spins that

I've come across. So, first of all, we ended up talking about the ozone layer in one of our episodes. It was an episode on Highlander two, but we still talked about the ozone layer in the science of the ozone layer and the story of of scientists saying hey, we need to do something about this, this growing problem, and then everyone being able to work together for the most part to then address that problem, uh, and and

get us on the right track with that issue. Like that's an inspiring story to me because it shows that, yes, there are cases where we can do that, where we can get the enough collective will to actually address the problem and work towards the solution. And and we can take that to the climate change situation. Another another aspect to that, and this is not my thought, I've I've seen this echoed elsewhere, is that when you look at the ravages of climate change, they are things that that

human civilization has has done. And that is on one level, that is that is the depressing part of it. But on the other part, that's that shows you, like the power that human civilization has and if we can if we can do that much harm without meaning to, then what happens when we we actually turn our collective attention to solving the problem, Like it's it's solvable, we can do it because we did the damage, you know. Yeah.

But I mean, I again not to to be a downer, but it's also a double edged sword because another danger I think with talking about climate changes, if you're you're trying to emphasize positive ways of framing the issue, what could be done. You also run the risk, I think of encouraging a kind of passive optimism where people will just be like, oh, yeah, it'll solve this, And you can't think like that. You know, this is not the kind of problem that will just solve itself. You make

a good point, Joe. I also I am curious to see where human creative e Gooes. I think we are like wildly creative, and I'm just so curious to see how humans approached this problem on a continuing basis as we're going to have to do. Yeah, are you saying we need artificial intelligence to tell us what? Are you one of those people who wants to build an AI god and worship it? I mean, I will tell I'm I'm not opposed to that. I hear these have some great ideas, you know, they can really idate. I think

Allison's kidding, I am. I So, I just wanted to say thanks for having me on today, you guys. I really have a lot of respect for both of you as science communicators. As you were pointing out earlier, that's what we all are show. Thanks. Um. And I think that you know, people like to consume content in different ways and that you both are fulfilling a really vital role in uh, you know, being stuff to blow your mind. Host.

I know it's not easy. I know that the grind of getting episodes out every single week and you know, striving to come up with new episodes and new topics and things like that, it's it's hard. And I really respect what you all are trying to do and the unique way that you do it. Well, thank you so much, Elison that that is too nice of you to say, yeah,

thank you. Um. I mean a lot of it ultimately does come down to like the listeners and the listeners curiosity, you know, I mean we we we didn't create their curiosity. All we can hope to do is um is sort of is feed it to the extent that we can. Uh and uh. And so really a lot of it

does come back to the listener. Not to suck up to the listeners though they're great, but like it's even know, really it's their their willingness and their desire to listen to us ramble about these topics and share these uh

you know, various curios and explanations with them. Um. And ultimately I think that's that's what inspires me at the end of the day, is that we have this audience that is that is hungry for more, that wants to have their mind expanded, They want to understand the world a little better, to understand themselves a little better, and to you know, continue on this path of consistent improvement and consistent betterment and uh, you know, and and endless learning.

That is that is life, you know. And at this point, after ten years, you know, we we heard just recently from a listener talking about how they started listening to the show ten years ago when they were kids, you know, and now they're what they're in a master's program working

on an engineering degree. Engineering degree, yes, uh so, you know, stuff like that is just it just brings it brings tears to your eyes to hear it that that that is probably the single greatest non monetary compensation for for doing this job is hearing from from kids who were encouraged, you know, to to think about the world more deeply, or to go into a scientific or technical subject or whatever because of something they heard on the show, or

because of an attitude they heard modeled on the show, which I think it our best. That's what I hope we can do I don't know if we're the best science communicators in the world in in the term in like the sense of like being technical experts on things. But what I do hope we can model is h is genuine enthusiasm and an approachable attitude and uh and a skeptical mindset. Yeah, and and just you know, share our curiosity with your curiosity and hopefully we can all

go on this journey together. Well, thanks for having me on this journey. Thanks for yeah, thanks for dropping in and chatting with us about the the early days of the show, and thanks for being a part of the earth days of the show. I mean again, everybody that's that's been a part of this show on any level has helped make it what it is and the show wouldn't be what it is today without you. Alison. Well, that's really sweet. Thanks again, everybody. All hug All right,

So there you have it. If you want to check out more Stuff to Blow your Mind, heading over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That will redirect you to some of the latest episodes of the show. But you can find the podcast wherever you get podcasts these days, um, whatever the services, We're out there wherever it happens to be, though, just make sure you've subscribed and give us a little rating interview if you have the ability to do so, because that helps the show

out as well. Huge thanks to Alison louder Milk for joining us today. Remember to check out how Stuff Works dot com and make it your new browser homepage. Huge thanks as well to Seth Nicholas Johnson are excellent audio producer. If you'd like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hi, you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a

production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio is at the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The Four Foo