Stigmata: Madness or Miracle?

We actually had to re record one segment of it. Yeah, the beginning of the episode is actually recorded after the second part of the episode, but we managed to put it all together, especially with the help of our great producer Noel, and we just wanted to let you know there might be some contextual stuff that seems a little weird because of the time frame, but when we talk about the stigmatic padre Pio, there is some stuff that was said before and then after and it makes sense though.

We've listened to it and feel pretty good about it. Yeah, so you should be able to roll with it. But just in case there are any questions, that's what's uped Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert lamp Hey, I'm Christian Sager, and this is part two of our exploration of the stig Mata. Part one dealt primarily with patient zero for

the stigmata St. Francis of us Easy. Yeah, as we talked about in the first episode, he is primarily recognized as as the stigmatic of history. But today we're going to talk about just stigmata beyond St. Francis, sort of the pop culture that we've seen a stigmata take place in, but also some more explanations that are somewhat scientific for what what's possibly going on here? Why are there so

many people who are bleeding from these very specific areas. Yeah, the first episode dealt more directly with just the religious idea of the supernatural idea of these wounds of Christ manifesting in the flesh, and then the historical um as well as biological aspects trying to figure out what disease Francis might have suffered from. And this is going to go in a more um psychological direction, right, there's other explanations beyond pathogen's viruses, back area whatever that could potentially

cause this for somebody. So somebody really thinks that they've been bestowed the wounds of Christ on their body. But before we get into the psychology of of the matter, let's discuss some of the pop culture aspects here, because we didn't even have time to to mention any of them in the previous episode. Yeah, So the big one that I always think of is that movie Stigmata with Gabriel Byrne and I always forget her name. Um, Rosanna Arquette,

it's the sister Patricia Arquette. Yeah, yeah, Um, she's a stigmatic, and contrary to a lot of the history of stigmatics, in that movie, it's portrayed as being like a like a bad omen like it's somehow I can't remember, it's been a long time, but somehow her being a stigmatic is like going to open a gateway for Satan to come to the material plane or something like that. Gabriel Burne is like an accult investigator for the Catholic Church and his I think his job is to go around

the world and investigate mystical occurrences like stigmata. I think he also like maybe at one point finds like a statue of Christ that's bleeding. Um, But his job is to go and investigate the Patricia Arqueat incident. It's so weird that they would cast it as this demonic device rather than exploring it more as Yeah, whereas in every other instance in in history it's it's been seen as

a holy thing, well most instances. Yeah, I mean, it seems like you would just have your protagonists suffer from the stigmata and then battle your demonic characters. And I don't know, maybe that's where the films of Landing any life, but it's it's hard for me to remember, but I

did before we recorded this. Go and watch the trailer again on YouTube, and there is a moment where they're surprised that she's not devout of faith that I think, like they're on a train in New York City or something like that, and Gabriel burn shocked when he finds

out that she she's like an atheist or something like that. Uh, well, you know, I have a hard time remembering exactly where I encountered the stigmata for the first time, in fiction or otherwise, because I certainly didn't grow up Catholic, but I must have ran across it somewhere. I'm sure it's one of those things that's used as a trope throughout horror literature and movies without even actually being referred to as stigmata. A lot of situations just the idea of

bleeding from open source, spontaneously or from your eyes. But the one that I remember is the I can't remember the name of the episode, but it's an X Files episode where Molder and Scully are chasing after a serial killer who's killing fake stigmatics or like, um, sort of like tent revivalist preachers, and they fake stigmata with ketchup packets. I think, and um that the serial killer is going around the country killing them until he finds an actual

stigmatic ball exactly. And so are they because they switch roles. Molder's the one who doesn't believe in it and Scully does because she has the religious background. Now is the killer in this is Is he himself a stigmata? He's not.

It's very very strange from what I remember. I think he owns a factory, some kind of tire car factory or something like that, and he he goes on a Their explanation is like that he goes on a trip to the Middle East and he comes back and all of a sudden he's just like basically possessed with with the the need to kill stigmat Alright, So a little Jerusalem syndrome in there, a little just blue collar guy

going off by deep yeah kind of yeah, you know. Now, I do remember, as a fairly young reader reading Philip K. Dix The for Stigmata of Palmer Eldrick Stigmata I can't remember how many stigmata are reference in the title, but it's a fantastic novel in which you have this kind of pan alien figure who has died but then manifests in a sort of stigma. It's not a literal stigmata, but very much mploying the idea of a of a of a stigmata. Oh, I don't I haven't read this one.

I love Philip Kadick's work. Is this from around that period of time when he was writing sort of those transcendental sci fi books like Ballast? Yeah, I think this one is from the towards the end of his timeline, and it's very psychedelic in places. It's it's pretty out there. That sounds great. Yeah, it's been a while since I've read it, some little foggy on the details, but I

remembered as being like a really really strong read. And of course there's the Ministry song Stigmatto, which I want to say it's um, the mind is a terrible thing to taste. I might be wrong, but I remember there's a video that's very nineties kind of video like in Wait, you know, I did run across this song that's the very song recently on like an industrial playlist on Spotify had a bunch of fis and I'm not as familiar with that particular Ministry album. Okay, yeah, go check that

out on YouTube. I have no idea what it has to do with stigmata or or what we've been talking about regarding the history or I'm sure it's a deep thoughtful consideration. Is known for his insights. Alright, So moving out of pop culture and into just sort of the psychological aspects here and now, Obviously there are a number of reasons one might inflict this kind of self harm.

You know, you have hysteria, very central nervous system disorders. Um. Just there are a number of reasons that a partially unhinged mind might turn to mutilation. Right, and and so from reading the research about stigmatics throughout history post uh St. Francis, a lot of cases they're associated with something that's referred to as holy anorexia, which is this idea that, um, there were young women who were strongly active in the church and devout in their belief uh, and they were

subsequently seen as female saints. But when we retroactively look back on their cases, UH, the diagnosis seems to be interactsia nervosa that they were purposely starving themselves, not eating anything except for the Eucharist, and uh, you know, this kind of treatment of their body through dietary restrictions sometimes led to self mutilation. Yeah, a number of these cases from stigmatum may result from self mutilation occurring during what's

called dietary constriction related to disassociation. So, as a result, you have artificial dietary constriction that's resulting in an indifference to the kind of harm that you're you're inflicting upon yourself. And you know, a variety of data links dramatic dietary constriction um uh to to reduced serotonic functioning, altered states of consciousness, and uh self injurious behavior. So let's see

if we can trace this here. So the behavior starts off as a dietary restriction and basically starving yourself, and that leads to a dissociative state that one could construe as being transcendent. Right that you've you've, you've, you've the hunger has brought you to a place of being one

with God. Yeah, and I should probably you know, drive home a little bit about what a disassociative experience consists of because a disassociative experience can range from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to severe detachment from not only physical

but emotional experience. So like a full blown detachment from reality, talking to spirits, you know, venturing into the astral plane kind of thing, amnesia, disassociated feud states where you know, you don't remember what you did or what happened, and you quite in your mind when you were doing it. But also on the like the low end of the spectrum, just daydreaming while you're driving to work is essentially low level disassociative state, and you know, a coping method for boredom,

but still an altered, a very mild altered state of consciousness. Okay, so the extreme end version of this, I think the logical argument that that was made in their research was that these transcendent states would lead to self mutilation in some cases, which displayed as stigmata, and then the the the patient I guess was would be how you would

refer to it. In this case, I wouldn't remember doing it to themselves because of the state that they were in, so they would of course assume that it had been bestowed upon them in some DFCT manner. Yeah. Yeah, they would either have an altered memory of what happened, or they would they would have no memory of what had happened that had caused these you know again mild discolorations

in the palm or just fall on wounds. Yeah, and and so there there's evidence in the research to that talks about how you know, a lot of these cases were in the Middle Ages, Uh, and for women at that time, it was one of the few ways that they could administer control over their lives because of the you know, the general misogyny and the culture of the time.

So they were able to by by by not eating and by you know, achieving these transcendent states and whatever happened beyond that sort of uh, lift themselves up into a position where that they gained empowerment somewhat, you know, they had a voice to speak from, or rather a platform to speak from where they could you know, have

some kind of authority where they normally wouldn't. Yeah, and ultimately also engaging in just this mystical experience that results in physical evidence of the divine or at least and or at least physical evidence of their their own connection to the divine, So it's curious. I think now about like some of the more modern cases that I read about, like Padre Pio Um. There's this guy who's active right now named I'm going to butcher this name. I believe

his name is Lato Um. And both of them, you know, padre Pio died in the sixties, but Laco's such is around now and Um. Both of them display stigmata. There's photographic evidence of it. UM. I would assume in case, you could probably even watch YouTube videos of him proselytizing. But they I don't get the impression that they're suffering

from the dietary constriction version. Yeah. Uh. One another thing that was common about these cases, and in both those guys cases too, is that they claim that they had other things going on, other mystical experiences going on beyond the stigmata UM. In padre Pio's case, people said that his stigmata smelled like perfume, like when he was bleeding, the room would filled with the smell of flowers. Well that that sounds actually oddly suspicious, and it was so weird.

It didn't smell like blood at all. Like catchup, I don't know, it's just a miracle, yeah, yeah, Or how about this one he has both these guys claim that they have the ability to buy locate, so that means that they can be in two places at the same time. M hmm. Well that's that's interesting as well, trying to figure out exactly how that would work. I mean, certainly in a disassociated state, you could have that kind of those that's where you feel like you're in two places

at once. Yeah. Yeah. And then there there's other people who have claimed, you know, as such with exorcisms, they claim that they've seen stigmatics levitate as well. Well, of course they are. They're a whole host of reasons. One might have some sort of hallucinatory experience that that could

involve either of those sensations. So who knows. Yeah, but there's there's a lot going on with stigmatics throughout history beyond the the sort of I guess case study that St. Francis supplied to come back to a fasting for just a moment, doing a link that you know, outside of observations and accounts of religious experience of pain uh and um and fasting, we we see plenty of links between starvation and self mutilation elsewhere, particularly among Allied prisoners of

war in the Second World War, Japanese pow camps in the Netherlands during during famine times during the Second World War, and among anorexic individuals, and have a great to have a great quote here from u c l A anthropologist Daniel mt. Fessler, who says that the stigmata provides quote a ready meaning system that likely shapes the experiences, actions, and accounts of developed Catholics having a psychological predisposition to

dietary constriction and attendant disassociation and self mutilation. So, yeah, that system of meaning comes back again. It It definitely makes me think about issues of identity um and almost in a sort of like systematic way of you know, recalculating who you are as an individual your role in the world, which is something all of us go through.

It's very existential, right, yeah, and we're informed by the stories in our lives, by the images in our lives, and certainly individuals who are experienced in the stigmata, they're looking to the art, right, They're looking to the accounts, and so that's why you see the nail in the palm, which is in a which is in keeping with the artistic traditions and the storytelling tradition, as opposed to the risk, which is where the nail would have actually gone according

to most of the stories. Yeah, that's the interesting part, right is that? And not a whole lot of people call stigmatics out on that, but exactly that the wounds almost always appear in the palm rather than the risks. Um. My only guess is that, like, if you were self mutile ating and and you went for the risks, that there would be a higher likelihood of dying from that.

And my understanding, especially from reading the literature comparing self cutters to stigmatics, was that, you know, obviously the intent is not suicide. The intent is not to kill yourself. Um, so you wouldn't want to do something like that. But that that's the only connection I can make. Yeah, I think it's just the the iconography, you know. I mean it's like, that's the vision of Christ that we're bombarded with, is that of the Christ with the artistic one? Yeah,

that's that's interesting. Yeah, which gets back to the whole idea that the art itself was was some kind of iconographic thing that supplanted the actual Jesus Christ. You know, there there were ideas that the art had holy power to it and that it in its own way was converting people. It's like almost like your brainwash from staring at this image to too long, in the same way

that you could say, don't watch that horror movie. You're watching too many horror intentional it's gonna crazy your mind at But yeah, from what I understood from the reading that there were leaders within the church who were critical of some pieces of art because they saw it as basically being marketing for for the religious movement, and they didn't want certain images to be associated with it because that that was how people were interpreting the religion, that's

how they were understanding it. Oh yeah, there's there's a whole fascinating history of the depiction of Christ and in the Catholic tradition, and and when what happens when certain depictions go a little too far, uh, and people start reining in or even throwing the word heresy out. For instance, the feminine Christ that I mentioned earlier, the three headed Christ that was possible but it was popular at one time. Wow,

I've never heard of that one. Because they're using images to to describe and tell these stories to, you know, often lay people and uh. And so you're trying to talk about the trinity, the Holy Trinity. So you depict a Christ that has three faces, oh, essentially making a monster Christ weird and it makes me think of the human character manny faces. I had those little action figure when had he had three faces that you could spin

around with like a top kind of like that. Yeah, it's there was a Holy Spirit face, and God face and a Jesus Christ face. They all the the the ones I looked at. They all look the same, and they're kind of merged together in this kind of weird, trippy fashion. U fact with stuff. I think we have an image out and how stuff works I'll have to link to interesting. I wonder how that may potentially connect to to the other two uh, individuals who are crucified

at the time of Christ. That's true, I mean, just a good thief and all that. Yeah, you start throwing around three and yo iconography and I can just go nuts. Huh. All right, So we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to look at some possible psycho somatic explanations for the stigmata. All right, we're back, So there was before we get into the psycho somatic

explanations for stigmata. There's one more example that I wanted to touch upon, which is, from my understanding, one of the most famous stigmatics in history outside of St. Francis was Padre Pio Uh and he lived from eighteen eighty seven to ninety was a stigmatic, but there were many skeptics about his uh stigmata, including two popes, so it was not recognized as being authentically divine, especially because there was a point in time where it was found that

he plagiarized his own writings about his stigmata from like the diary entries of a young girl from the Middle

Ages who was stigmatic. So there was a lot of question about his own stigmata, which leads you to wonder too, Like we were speaking about the self mutilation mainly in terms of people sort of doing it in transcendent sort of dissociative states, but in this guy's case, it might have been possible that he was actually wounding himself for the attention and maybe so yeah, and then again you get into especially when you start comparing it to plagiarism. You get into that whole weird area of like to

what extent was it conscious and subconscious? Was it a deliberate act? Was it like a slippery slope to to the point where you're actually you know, carving your wounds? Yeah, And Padre Pierre, you know, like I said, he died in nine so we have like photographic evidence of this guy with the wounds and everything. So it's, um, that's one of those cases where it's it's it's you know,

it gets incredibly complicated psychologically and sort of ethically. Yea, But let's move on to the psychosomatic explanation because I think this is really fascinating, and this we're talking about the essentially psychosomatic illness. Uh. This is when a physical illness or other condition such as stigmatic potentially is caused or aggravated by a mental factor such as internal conflict or high levels of stress. Now, the easiest to grasp examples of this, you know, without getting into like a

really fringey territory. Examples of are examples of stress related symptoms. So I mean, like for me personally, I know that in the past I've had hives when I'm gott stressed out, So that's a psychosomatic response, right, yeah, or um, you know, two big ones are peptic ulcers or irritable bowe sundrome. These were once thought to ibs and peptic ulcers were both thought to once be entirely psychosomatic, and we know it is in the case now, but there's definitely a

you know, psychosomatic element to their manifestation. Um. Another key area to look at is, uh, you know, the the no sebo effect for the dark side of the placebo effect, because in the strictest sense and no no cebo response is when a drug trial subjects symptoms are worsened by the administration of an inert sham or dummy drugs. So yeah, no sebo is one of those uh fascinating things that keeps coming up over and over again here at how

stuff works. It That specific example has been um just used in a lot of our podcasts and videos, and I believe that we have a no cebo article I think as well, and the new no cbo podcast launching no sea stuff. But yeah, basically what's happening is you're you're taking just this you know, sugar pill, but you believe that it could hurt you. You've read these You've you've read the possible side effects, right, and so when you take it negative physical manifestations occur because I believe

that they will. Like the link between the mind and body in that regard is uh, you know, is established. It just gets into questions of to what extent that connection goes. I don't think that that's something we fully understand yet. You know, we're sitting here talking about how our modern medicine is so much better than the Middle Ages. But I think that there's a point to be made that our understanding of psychosomatic responses is still probably in

it in its infancy. You end up looking at at other areas to such a psycho psychogenic illness, such as conveyed syndrome or since sympathetic pregnancy. It's not a recognized metal condition and it's debated, uh, but some believe it's a true psychosomatic condition that you you you see this person in your life swelling with pregnancy, and you begin to swell as well to take really to take on

you know, you're not actually there's nothing growing. For a moment there, I thought you were going to say, like sympathetic pregnancy was like somebody said that they they immaculately conceived because of you know, like their friend was also pregnant, and now this is like, you know, the wife is pregnant in a husband got starts getting a big fallen now that I could see, or probably more likely just because of dietary changes around the house, but based on

certainly high levels of stress and concern. That helps too, Yeah, definitely. Um. One of the things that I found in the readings that was interesting about the Middle Ages and the stigmatics connecting to the psychosomatic explanation, was that there was a movement that was referred to as the imitatio of Christy that was a terrible Italian but I think that's how

you say it. But the idea here was that the individuals at the time, like St. Francis himself, were striving so much to live their lives like Jesus Christ, that they actually began to manifest the stigmatic wounds or getting back to the self harm, they would mutilate themselves. So there were examples of monks that practice stigmata as penance for their sins um so they would, you know, do it manually. I don't know, maybe they even helped one another.

That that's the thing too, Like we've we've been talking about how like you know, people self crucifying. That sounds incredibly difficult to you gotta have help on that. Somebody's got to help you get up there, right, I don't know, jeez. Yeah, I think the footage I've seen of the festivities in the Philippines, Uh, it's it's a group effort, you know, it's so yeah, so there's a community behind it, which probably helps. So the imitatio christie was sort of a

form of mimesis right. The idea was that they were identifying so much with someone else, in this case Jesus Christ, that they wanted to take on all of their traits, not just the traits of their personality, but also their physical traits. M here's an example that comes to mind here, This is probably horrible example, remove and edits. But uh, you're familiar with you're familiar with Limmy from Motorhead, Oh yeah, okay, and you're familiar enough with wrestling to know a Triple H. Yeah.

Triple H was the one who was in Blade three, right, yes, okay, uh yeah, and he's he's like a big hauncho with w big now and a talented performer, but he's also a big motor Head fan. Is that right? Yeah, huge motor Head fan, Like he's brought in motor Head to do like his his entrance music, like three different versions of his own and uh for a period of time, he like he grew out. He had the long hair, Triple HH did grew out like LEMMI facial hair. So so he had the big like lamb chops and the

the Lemmy. He had everything. He did not manifest the mole or is it two moles? He has at least one really big mole. But yeah, so Triple H was not able to use mimesist to psychosomatically generate a mole. Not quite, but I think he was working on it like a little longer and he could have manifested the mole um. That's fascinating. I have a friend who has a term which I like to use for describing Lemmy, which is that he has a ba's like a bucket full of elbows. Now, just clarify, we're not making a

direct comparison between Lenny and christ. But you know an individual that you're devoted to, an idea that you're devoted to to, At what point does that devotion began to have its own kind of bluebo or no sebo effect on your body. Yeah, that's interesting, like Elvis impersonators of today, that would be a good one. In in Elvis stigmata. Yeah, yeah, like combination of if they had like a mimesis connected

to both Jesus and Elvis or something something. But I'm trying to think of other like modern day manifestations of this. You know, obviously there's nothing so uh preda natural as you know, wounds forming, but there are many forms of identification connected to other figures, you know, especially figures in popular culture. Well, I mean nowadays, of course, if you're particularly devoted to an individual, you can just have them tattooed on your body. Oh yeah, suctually as Jesus himself

is appears on good point back an arm. I wonder if there's I'm surely there must be somebody out there. We'll have to Google image search this after the recording. Surely there must be somebody out there who has had stigmatic wounds tattooed on their body. Well, I have I have one of them actually, Oh is that right? Yeah? I have actually have the spear wounds. I've never seen

you in their shirt off. What's the thing I tend to I tend to wear a shirt at work like St. Francis, you cover up your humble about your your holy wounds. But no, I really do. I'm not just making a joke. I have the spear wounds on my side. Really. Okay, yeah, I mean I thought you were a kiding. No, No, it's real. There I have there. It's not like a

purely You're a number of layers to it. Like I only have one tattoo, and I put a lot of thought into what I would get and what it would symbolize, and so they're varying levels of a symbolism at play. Oh okay, okay, interesting, Well, now our listeners are probably out there. They're very interested in your tattoo. Maybe appearance catching at the y or something. Now, another example of psychogenic illness I want to mention real quick, is conversion disorder. UM.

This is UH. In this, we see patients suffering from neurological symptoms such as numbness, blindness, paralysis, or fits without any kind of definable organic cause. And it's thought that these symptoms arise in response to stressful situations affecting a patient's mental health. UM. And this is a that's considered a psychiatric disorder in actually the ds M D s M five, So it's recognized by the UM, you know,

the discipline of psychology. Yeah. So, like enough mental stress and anguish or you know, potentially devotion could uh could blind you. You know, so you know, factoring that into our attempt to understand stigmata, uh, it begins to seem ever more possible that you could manifest these wounds psychosomatically. Well, okay, so I have a personal story here. I'll try to be brief with it, but that maybe it helps me

to understand this. So when I was thirteen years old, I went to a Southern Baptist private school and we had a lot of uh church study, a lot of reading of the Bible. Uh. There was also a lot of talk about demon possession, which I believe we referenced in the episode where we talked about Satanic panic. There was an incident when I went skiing with my family, UH, and I got snow blindness. I didn't know what this

was then. I think I might have told you that I can't remember if you mentioned on the podcast, if you definitely told me about it. Yeah, and uh so what happens is, you know, sunlight reflects off the snow, your your eyes literally get sunburned, and you temporarily go blind. And I didn't know what was going on. So I went to sleep that night. When I woke up, I was blind, and I was so scared, and I had in my head, had all of the the fear from the Southern Baptist school that I was in that I

thought that God had stricken me blind. So you know, my site returned by that afternoon. Um. But you know, thinking back on all of this psychosomatic talk, I was just a thirteen year old kid and I was only in that school for like a year. Can you imagine if your entire life was devoted to the church in such a way. I can imagine that it would be easy for for some of these things to occur, or for other things to cause them, and to think that

they were manifested by God. Yeah. I mean, when you start start considering the power that our world views and the symbols that we we have in our life, that the power that they have over us, and then start thinking about these various psychosomatic effects it. Yeah, I moved closer and closer to to buying purely psychosomatic uh stigmata. But then I then I then I also began to know like I'm maybe getting a little too fringey, and

then I pull back and to start thinking about self madulation. Maybe. Well, I'm sure in all the there's all different types of cases. But like I said in the first episode of this podcast, I don't necessarily believe in stigmata, but I believe that these people believe in their stigmata. Yeah, I do. To them. It's a vast majority of them. I believe it is real with you know, a few Charlottean's in the bunch.

But but even then it's often I think, you know, when you really look close at at cases where someone's faking something like taking something big in their life, it becomes complicated when you try and take it apart and say, oh, you're just putting on a show. Yeah. Absolutely, Like in the case of Padre Pio that we were talking about earlier, if it if it was indeed something that he was doing uh to deceive people, then that speaks to an

even larger psychological problem. Yeah, um on a scale that's probably you know, commensurate with with that of going into a transcendent state and hurting yourself. All right, So there you have it, stigmata. Hopefully we have given a nice overview of what it is from a you know, from a religious standpoint, from an historical standpoint, and look at some of the various ways you can consider it from a medical point of view, mythical, even a little sci

fi thrown in there as well. Yeah, and and like we said, you know, we're not experts in any of these particular things. I'm not a theologian, I'm certainly not a doctor. I'm not a psychologist. So I would love to hear from those of you out there that maybe have experience with these or have ideas of your own about stigmata. You can always get in touch with us through our Facebook page, Twitter, Tumbler, and then we are also available at blow the Mind at how stuff works

dot com. Send us an email there and let us know what you think. Yeah, indeed, and hey, we want to hear about the uses of stigmata in fiction as well. If you have at fictional stigmata, you know, horror movie, sci fi, what happened only touched on those two the movie and then the X Files episode. I'm sure there's

gotta be dozens. Oh yeah, Like there's there's one movie from the seventies called God Told Me To I've never heard of that Mary Cohen film, um who did like to the Wing Serpent and it lives second okay, And it's a subtly fabulous piece that involves like a murder investigation in New York and Andy Kaufman has a small cameo and it centers around this um angelic christ like timaphroditic alien being that has been born in the nineteen

seventies New York City and is like mind controlling people. Well, I definitely want to see this now. So this is why I'd like you all the right in because these sounds like a great movie recommendation. Yeah, there has to be some more stigmatau ploytation cinema out there to consider. Yeah, exactly, alright, So yeah again, head on over to stuff blow your mind dot com. Check out all the offerings there and

what's that email address? Again? Blow the mind at how stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com,