Pyromania: What's Your Relationship with Fire?

fire it is. I wouldn't say it's complicated, but I would say, like, just like everybody else, there's something very alluring about fire, mesmerizing. Um, My earliest memories rose were, of of course, burning ants with magnified glass. You were one of those kids. I was definitely one of those kids. And um, and then waving my hand over a candle flame with my babysitter for a very long time, and

why she was partaking of this with you. She was like, let's let's She and her hippie boyfriend were both like, let's do this thing was it was a hippie not like a g Gordon Liddy thing where you like hold your m okay, you like, look how macho and conservative I am, because I no, no, is the opposite. It

was like, let's try to control this fire man. And now I cannot uh speak for them, but I will say that it's possible that maybe there was something that was enhancing the experience for them looking back now and understanding, um, teenagers back in the day. Coffee, Yeah, lots of coffee.

I'm sure that was it. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, that those were my memories of being absolutely mesmerized by fire, and you you well, I tend to think of fire is um it's not so much an element but a golden God that I that I honor, and and when I bring fire into the world, I am allowing a part of this god to rein of the world and

destroy my Yeah. Was that that That's what I would say if I were a pyromaniac, perhaps, as we'll discussing this podcast, because that's that's because my history fires probably mostly uninteresting. Yes, when I was a kid, I probably had a stage where I went through where I really like firecrackers and it was it was fun to strap them to the backs of little g I Joe men and and just stick them into the dirt and watch things blow up, and you know, and we all and

I love poking around in the fire. I was in boy Scouts. There's a lot of poking around in the fire. Uh. But eventually I kind of outgrew that. So I I like staring into the fire. I think I I like flames. There's something, you know, kind of scary about it. If I feel like I left a flame going in, say the in the bathroom in the morning, I will freak out and probably turn the car around or or turn my walk around and go back to the house to address it. But but I mean, fire is amazing. Fire

is beautiful. Um, So we can't help would be fascinated by it. But it's probably a bad thing. We're too fascinated by it. Well, the the crazy thing about it is that, of course, when when we discovered fire, it really helped us out right as people, as a civilization, as the ability to even um exists as humans today, right right. It really fact, as we've discussed in the past, it really had a huge impact on the way that

we hunt our food. For instance, um, you could use fire to clear out the vegetation around a watering hole, so you could see the prey animals that were creeping towards the water to drink and slay them. And then once you had slain the prey animal, you could conceivably roasted up and get more out of your meal um digest things that were normally not not not something you could digest, that's right. You would trans the ability to transform, yeah,

foods that you wouldn't be able to digest. Right, And to say nothing of its use as a destroyer and as a weapon. I mean, fire has has pretty much always played a role in in human warfare. I mean, from the flaming era to a flaming stick, to h to napalm to the idea of of nuclear firestorms ravaging the continent following some sort of a World War three scenario. So I mean it, fire is is a big player

in human civilizations, hopes, and fears. And I guess what we're trying to do is trying to occupy the mindset of someone who would be so in love with fire and be romancing fire, because on some level we all understand that again, you know, fire is the life givers, the destroyer. But some people, a very small personage of the population paramaniacs specifically UM are absolutely obsessed with it, and so we're gonna try to get you know, into

their minds a little bit today. Although we will say that this is UH territory that hasn't been greatly explored for many reasons. Right now, we're not going to get into the chemical reaction of fire, but but just a quid engine here, we have an excellent article called how Fireworks by Tom Harris on how stuff works dot com. Just go to the website and type in how fireworks and you go right to it. Here's a quote from it. Fire isn't matter at all. It's a visible, tangible side

effect of matter changing form. It's one part of a chemical reaction, which, you know, just a quick quote from just what fire is. But it gives you a little more idea that we're a little insight into why it's so fascinating, because it is it's a thing between you know, and it's UH. In addition to being this life giver, this destroyer UM and you and you also, I've I've heard it argued that like every story we've ever told

is essentially a story of camp fires. You know, like when we sit around the camp fire there's this primal experience of of of of humans with their light, with their warmth, and then beyond them the darkness of the rest of the world. Well then then there's a mysterious element of it too. I mean, you know, you take a candle and you turn it um, you know, to the right or left, it's always going to point up and unless as about to say, that's a gravity at

work for you, unless you're on a spaceship. And then you get to see the blue flame in the red flame, which is really just the embers of that. So yeah, there's something really powerful to that. UM. But again, some people they get a little bit too excited by by this flame. And let's look at some examples of people who are too into their fire making. Yeah, yeah, okay, So there's an infamous arsonist right who has a lot of the characteristics of a pyromaniac. And it hasn't you know,

exactly been said this is a pyromaniac. And again we talk about he's definitely on the waiting list. Um, looks like he might make it. Paul Keller lives lives in Seattle. He is now serving in ninety nine year prison sentence and he started setting fires as a child and later tried to join the fire department. And he's an alcoholic um and during those fires, most likely he was probably imbibing. But he set something like seventy fires in his career

and one at a nursing home facility. So obviously there's you know, you know that there's a dark side to this. But that's when you know that someone has certainly tipped over the edge of perhaps just seeing what a fire might do in some sort of scenario and then actually setting a fire knowing that many lives will be taken right. Another big case that hand across was one that mentioned

in some of the literature. This British psychiatrist by the name of Randolph Parks that he did a whole paper two thousand five looking at this twenty year old homeless individual was not named at the study, but he was actually going on dousing people with lighter fluid and setting him on fire. Um and was he also had a number of other symptoms like it was this guy was was kind of out there because he was like hearing breathing in his bedroom and seeing blood on the wall.

He reported having seen ghosts like people that looked like water, so he was having hallucination. He was having hallucinations. So on the light side, there's the porta potty pyromaniac. This was in San Francisco a couple of years ago, and he torched more than one t porta potties over two month period and would do this primarily a night. Although he, I say he could have very well been a woman.

He or she was so bold enough as to actually um set one on fire during the daytime, in which you could see the porta potti combusting in all its glory, with all of its elements flying through the air. Well. You know, there's probably a study out there that we should look at on on porta potty vandalizing in general, because it seems like there's something about the porta potty

that that humans are compelled to mess with it. I guess because it's this little room that's full of pooh, and we there's something and everyone that wants to tip it over or or hit it with a car or catch it on fire. Right, No, maybe you I think we just got a little insight there. Maybe I just don't. I mean, I'm not a big porta potty fans, so maybe it's part of my my rage against the Maybe it's your fear. It's like you're trying to master your

fear of porta potties by imagining being tippled over. Like seriously, I went into one recently and it had a graded floor like a like a milk carton, like it had holes in it. That's how how why did it pick us that long to figure out that a porta potty needs holes in it so that it's not slick with mud, uh and other matter when someone goes into it after it's been up for a day or two. Well, I mean that's there's always room for a progress, right, I guess. Yeah.

I told you how I was almost carried away in one at Cochella one year. Right. It was. Now, granted, it was not just a normal port port This is why you have the fear, tell us it was. It was not just a normal porta potty. They had those two and they were disgusting, of course, But they also had ones on the back of a truck, which is like this this big. It's like a full sized bathroom, you know, with sinks and all kind of fancy but

also kind of gross. Yeah. Yeah, And I had gone in and I didn't know this, but they were closing it up, and they were about to take it away on the back of a truck with me still in it. And then some guy I like, haller is something you know, unintelligible that I can only call it a holler because it was that, you know, unintelligible through the door, and then shuts it. I'm like, I wonder what he's yelling about.

And so I finished my business and I rushed to the door, and they're they're getting ready to haul it off, probably to throw it over the edge of a canyon somewhere, I guess. No, No, I'm just imagining that some sort of elaborate plot to kidnap you and then they force you into labor in some remote part of the world. So I didn't I didn't necessarily want to start it

on a fire. But but but now you do. Now you've got these feelings about porta Potti that you that you are unresolved, that perhaps fire could help with Maybe fire could help me with that. All right, Yeah, let's swing back to the fire there that was. That's a fun little party potty diversion. Um, okay, so what is pyromania? Right? Um? That the term actually comes from French physician Charlos cretien Um and it's malamuni incendiary apologies from my French, which

translates to insane incendiarism. Okay, so the terms kind of vague, right, Well, it's in the same way that insanity is often a term that is contested and and and depends on who's throwing it around and who's receiving it. Uh. Yeah, you look across the board and people have different definitions of who qualifies as insane and who qualifies as a pyromaniac. Which is really interesting too, because if you look at this criteria of of what is a pyromaniac, there's a

very big lack of insanity in this list. Right, it's kind of actually spelling out this story of someone who

is perfectly normal except really likes fires. Right and uh, and just to give another nod to how how loose the terminology can be, the FBI organized and Advanced Fire Investigation Training session a little while ago, and uh, at the start of the meeting, they ask over six hundred participants, which included fire agency personnels like insurance investigators, uh, you know, police officers, mental health professionals, various Walks of Life to

write down their definition of pyromania, and not a single definition was identical. Well, and this is part of the problem, right if we have um discovered here and many are discovering in the field, is that this it hasn't been studied that well. And um, there's a lot of misinformation out there that we'll get to. But so far, the American Psychiatric Association is Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has set forth the following criteria for a diagnosis. Okay, pyromania.

And I can't help but think as we go through this, let's think of of one of the more famous pyromaniacs or potential pyromaniacs from popular culture, that being Beavis, Beavis and butt Head, because as you remember, he was rather enamored with the Golden Flame. Yes, well, and also Bart Simpson. Oh, it's Bart Big into the fire. I think that's what landed him in the in detention. Okay, Well, let's think

of Bart and Beavis as we proceed. Okay, alright, First, the individual must have set fires deliberately and purposefully on more than one occasion. Okay, definitely on the this and I assume on Bart they've been that has been going on too long for them to have gone to that well more than once, I agree, and at least during the episode that would have been many times. The individual must be tense or exhibit outward emotional behaviors talking about

facial expressions, changes in voice, excitement before setting fires. Definitely this. Yes, the individual must be interested in, curious about, fascinated with, and or attracted to fires in their situations. I think that kind of goes on That one's kind of silly because that kind of goes with the territory. The individual must experience pleasure, tension, relief, or gratification after setting fires

or watching fires in their aftermaths. Yes, this is obviously the probably the biggest marker here, right, Yeah, Like it's kind of like the whole thing, like a five. I think there was like a Far Side cartoon where there's a building burning and the people are turning and noticing, like the dude that's just setting there with just wide eyes and just loving every minute of it. Like that's the guy that you're kind of suspect might have pyromania issues. Yeah, yeah,

the guy with the kaleidoscope eyes is definitely. Other psychological disorders cannot better account for the individual's fire setting behavior, manic episodes, antisocial behavior. Okay, So for instance, if they're seeing things in the night bleeding walls and then decided to go set hopos on fire, that's a byproduct. Yes, yeah, we're talking about pure pyromania here. Yeah. Um, And then the individual has no other motivations for setting the fire,

like financial gain. All right, this is this is like insurance. I need insurance money, so I'm gonna burn my own building down. Yeah, my restaurant is not doing that great kitchen fire. Um. Expressing social or political ideas okay, Obviously burning down building as a sign of protests, burning people in effigy, right right, revenge or anger? Right, this is I don't like you, you said something bad to me, or I think or even like I perceive that you wronged me in some fashion, So I'm going to burn

your cupical down. For any of the TLC hip hop fans out there, Um, Lisa left dial Opez, I believe burned down her fiance's mansion. Yes, right, it was in Atlanta, so TLC before well or I guess after the Learning Channel, but I'm thinking, yeah it was TLC, right, Um, I was thinking of the show because I'm not as familiar with all the TLC programming, so I thought maybe there's like a pyromania ladies. Yeah, and you know I've got one foot in there, so that you thought, Julie, she's

just fun TLC dot com again. Um enough a kick boss, Julie. Um okay, So hiding other criminal activity, concealing a murderer, theft, right, getting rid of a body by burning it. Yeah, something dark like that. Improving his or her living circumstances, which I don't really get that. I get the financial gain, but you would think that would be one and the same.

Responding to delusions or hallucinations or pair judgment, dementia, mental retardation, alcohol or dragon toxic what is improving his or her living So it's kind of like, you know, this living room is great, but I feel like it would be better if I've learned that. Yeah, it would be really shabby cheek if I could just you know, get a little singe to some of this furniture. Um also that the individual must not exhibit intoxication, criminal motivation, or other

criminal psychiatric disorders. So when you take all of this, it's purely like this that that that one point, which is like number point number four, then the individual must experience pleasure attention really for gratifications. So that's really at the heart of this matter. Um. And just as a little side fact, in the US, only three percent of

suspected arson fires lead to conviction. Okay uh. And then from slate dot com The Science of Pyromania, they say, maybe the true arson prone pyromaniacs are still roaming the streets. Some evidence suggests that arsonists tend to be non assertive offenders who internalize their anger with fires, enabling them to avoid face to face confrontation. Such evasiveness also makes them

difficult to study. So what they're kind of what what all this is painting right here, is that it's very hard to study who a true pyromaniac maybe, and in fact, there's probably a lot of crossover from arsonists to pyromaniacs. Um. And you know, if you kind of lift some of these constraints, especially the alcohol part. Right, if someone's using alcohol and they set a fire, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not a pyromaniac, especially if they did that

seventy times over the last four months. Right, I was looking at this article from the American Institute of Forensic Education that was talking about characteristics of quote, juvenile fire setters, because the whole thing is you're gonna have juveniles who are setting fires and they are not necessarily pyromaniacs as as we've do you know, discussed um given these constraints. Uh So, some of the examples they lay out in

this article include the experimental curiosity fire center. And this is generally somebody younger than seven and and they're generally after they set the fire, they're generally quite upset by it. And it's more of a product of lack of supervision and easy access to fire setting materials. So this would be like, you know, you leave a cigarette lighter around a um, a six year old, there's nobody watching him.

Of course he might set something on fire. That's why you don't leave the fire making implements around when when they're on their own generally, right, Like, you know, we leave an ax around my nephew and he starts chopping in a tree with it. It doesn't mean he's an act wheeling maniac. He's just a kid who season acts and nobody's watching, so he's gonna start swinging it's just what they do. It's true. Then there's the thrill seeking fire center and this is eleven to twelve years old.

Um and uh this tends to be interrupted by the time they reach sixteen or seventeen, the article says, and uh and it, but it can become more dangerous over time. They're generally doing other bad things, and they tend to enjoy the drama and the chaos that the fire creates. And they they're often good manipulators. Their shallow, they're selfish, they like a moral compass, so they're a little bit narcissistic, right, and this is definitely one can see, like they say,

becoming a more serious threat. It's not just a kid playing with fire. It's a kid playing with the emotions that a fire um evokes. And people right in realizing that they can get attention from this or pleasure from this, from the attention that the fire gets, because the fire always gets attention. It's pretty true. Um. Then there's another color classification, delinquent fire setter, and this is eleven to twelve year old and and generally these are these are

individuals who uh set the fire. And then they're denying personal liability for the fire. They're blaming others, and it's generally more of a hyperactivity and impulsive things. So it's kind of a um, a continuation of that experimental curiosity, but that has more than just you know, lacking control over and the impulse control is pretty important. Impulse control. And so they're like, I'd like to set a fire and bam, they're already setting it. Uh. Then there's then

they also classify revenge fire setters. And so again this according to what we discussed earlier, this would not be a pyromaniac. But this is why it gets so murky, right, because it's been studied in many different ways and labeled in many different ways. Right, these would be this would be like a fifteen year year old or older. And uh, they may be taking revenge against the society, a person, an institution of taking their group. It could be perceived

wrong or a real wrong. Um. And uh. These fire setters generally expressed anger before the fire and relief after. Um. They often come from intact families with cold, withholding parents in a paranoid way of thinking. That's really interesting again, UM, I mean I keep seeing markers of narcissism because usually with people who are ncissistic. They have parents who have turned away from them, which makes them turn inward and began to become you know, the seats of narcissisms begin

to grow. So that's sort of interesting to hear that. Cool. And then the the other category that they lay out in this article disordered coping fire setters and this is generally early childhood on set um and the these these are tend tend to be very dangerous. Uh, this is a situation where fire is a learned response to stress. They're generally male, and these fire set as they experience problems with with pretty much every aspect of their life.

They would come with a from a history of violence. Uh, there's you know, abuse, neglect issues at home and uh, they will set a fire up say every day, and in the size doesn't matter. It might be you know, just burning something in the sink or setting fire to a tool shed. Um. Uh, you know, it doesn't matter to them, but setting the fire like that lowers the stress.

It's like it's just stress reliefs mechanism. That's pretty interesting. Um. Alright, so we're gonna take a break, but when we get back, we're going to talk about what Freud, Prometheus, and penises have to do with fire. Yes. This podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. At Intel, we believe curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us at curiosity dot com and

explore the answers to life's questions. Alright, we're back. So Prometheus, of course, was the fire bringer from mythology who brought he was a Titan, brought the secret of the fire down from the gods who overthrew the Titans, and uh, and shares it with humans so humans can do all these things that we were talking about, like cooked food and dropping napalm and uh. And burned down all the shrubbery around a pond so they can eat the animals

that drink from it. And uh. He ended up finding himself chained to a rock while an eagle feast son is liver right, right, But the liver grows back and so each day his liver becomes a meal again. So that's a great punishment. Um. But so he smuggled the fire in a hollow Fennel Stock and Freud our man. Freud saw this as a penis symbol. Ah, and this is. Yeah. This is from the Slate article about pyromani and it

says uh. Psychiatra's Candice Germane and Michael Lejoy explained it as um sort of invoking the mechanism of reversal, so he he suggested. Freud suggested that it was not fire that man harbors and his penis, but the means of

extinguishing fire the water of his stream of urine. But Freud also saw a more bid curiosity of fire is being related to excessive nocturnal and ursus bedwdding and children, with the erotically tinged warmth associated with ambient urine, essentially trapping problem bedwetters, and the phallic stage usually reserved for three to six years old. Of course, Freud shuts up

on the scene. Yeah, and it's it's interesting that you did mention the whole peeing on the fire, because I don't remember ever peeing on a camp fire, but I know that was that was always a big deal in boy Scouts. I would say that if if I had the plumbing, I probably would do that, but I don't, so I can see how how that would be interesting

to do. Another thing from that Slight article was really interesting is that in the eighteenth century, German physicians were convinced that fire setting tendencies were primarily in affliction of teenage girls with low i q s, and that that that burning things gave these girls an outlet for their sexual frustration ah, and they fuel lost right fire lust, which you know, I think has actually come to uh paint the way that we understand pyromania, because a lot

of people have taken this idea of paramedics as sociopaths and people who are sexually disgruntled and they're just working out their their fantasies there um their sexual problems so on and so forth, which we know is not necessarily true, but of course that's that's what really rings well with a story. In fact, there's something called the mcdomenal triad and UM. It's basically this correlation of animal cruelty UM, which has been linked with obsession with fire setting and

bedwetting beyond the age of five. So if you have all three of these traits or these behaviors, then you probably have more sociopathic tendencies. At least that's what the reasoning is. So you can understand why this idea of um of paramaniacs, is sexually frustrated or bedwetters came came to rise in our minds. Um. In fact, we know that this is a problematic suggestion that you these three

behaviors creates a sociopathic tendency and a person. And in fact, we recently found out in the book by how Herzog, some we eat, some we love, and some we hate that this association with serial killers and animal cruelty is

just pretty much plain wrong. Right. It's all about the child sort of testing the boundaries and and figuring out where they where they rank in relation to animals, right, right, And in fact, it's really common for kids to um has some sort of level of animal cruelty or experience with it because they are trying to master this position of power in their life and try to to suss

it out for themselves. But according to how Herzog, the majority of people who abused animals as children do not grow up to be violent, and eight percent of serial killers do not have a known history of cruelty to animals. And he found this out by a myriative studies. UM that we're taken out, Um, definitely there are prisoners sociopathic prisoners that they studied and they really found no correlation there.

It's interesting the you know, I'm thinking about like children, young children sort of discovering, uh, these things for the first time. I'm discovering the whole I can be cruel to an animal and what does that mean? And how do I relate to the animal? And then discovering lying. We discussed lying and then one of the other podcasts and uh and about discovering that power the ability to say something that isn't so and therefore alter the perceived

universe of another person or in themselves. And then the fire kind of fits in naturally with that. To discover this ability to create this strange substance, to to create it or control it, or to just release it onto something. And uh, you know you can just imagine like a young mind, like what what they must think of fire. Yeah, it's another opportunity to either empathize or to destroy. Right.

And I wonder to how it about about pyromania, how it how it factors into different walks of life, because there are certain there's certain um places in the world, certain families in the world. I mean, it varies depending on on your your upbringing. How exposed to fire you are. I mean, for some you're gonna be you're gonna be seeing fire every day. You're gonna be playing in the

fire from an early age. While in other households or or environments, the fire is not going to be something that is readily available, especially if you know there are no smokers around, the camp fires around, if everything is just you know, like like electric heat. Well, I think that's why it's so hard to understand and to study, because it is colored by a person's perception. And there's not all I mean, other than setting the fire. There's not a lot of, um, you know, a common thread

between people who are pyromanics. I mean, there are accounts of people who like, for instance, and think about this one guy who's a pyromaniac and he um, he had it for him. It was a sexual release and he had some but he had some very um important problems mental disorders that led him to create this association between

sex and fire. For instance, you know, he had a strange relationship with his mom and she made him put his hand on a burner to understand that it was hot, And there were all these instances of fire throughout his young adult life. That he began to map against his sexuality, which then came out in fire setting. So but that's particular only for that one person, right, Um, but again very hard to understand, very hard to study. True piroma is actually really rare. We're talking about less than one

percent to about four percent of arsons and uh. And then there's a whole other area that comes to mind when we're talking about pyromania um, or rather people who are really into fire but not necessarily pyromaniac. Like I've been to several different festivals or events where you have people that are really into fire, like, they're into using like stunt burned suits, they're into building their own flamethrowers. Theres right right and and uh and and they love fire.

There's no denying that these guys and gals really um, at least figuratively, get off on the idea of catching things on fire, including themselves. Uh yeah, yeah. And you look for any you know, images from from any given say burning man and pyromaniac, and we're rather I'm using the terminal loosely, but people who are really into fire, um,

they tend to really seek those events out. Yeah, you know burning man, that keeps coming up, and someone that suggested we do a podcast on it, so I don't know, maybe we can find a science angle there. Yeah, well we've discussed there that there are plenty of scientists at Burning Man. That's right, that's right. You can you can just go, I think give them like twenty cents and ask an astrophysicist a question. Yeah. Um, there's a booth there.

What we're suggesting that you can go and visit and and not only just enjoy the Burning Man, but also learn more about the physical world. The Burning Man. It sounds like like kind of like if somebody's grandma, we're like, are you going to the Burning Man this year? The

Burning Man? You're talking about the effigy that they burned, right, yes, yes, the big giant one at the festival that people would like writhe uncontrollably in front of And and again I think it comes back like the reason people get into that though, and uh and and I love the idea of a huge bondfire because it's it's like, it's a story of human civilization. It's the it's people gathering around

its fire, something they create, something they create. It brings warmth that I'll allows them to digest different food that gives them power over the elements and over the other creatures of the earth, and then on the outside, the darkness of the unknown, of the dangerous, of the unexplored. I mean, it just stirs something deep within us, right, and it really complements peyote Alright. So, what we do know about pyromaniacs, or what we suspect is that it

is an impulse control disorder, much like kleptomania or pathological gambling. Right, So how do we treat it? Behavioral therapy? So far,

that's that's what most psychologists are thinking. But in a two thousand six letter to the editor of the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, psychiatrist John Grant reported a case of one patient who fit the clinical definition of pyromania, the one that we talked about um and Grant was able to examine the brain of his patient with spect imaging and found a region in the left inferior frontal portion

that had a low blood flow. So the patient underwent three weeks of daily behavioral therapy and a daily regiment of topium rate, which is an anti convulsant used to treat treat the seizures, and during that time, the patient reported a substantial decrease in his urge to set fires. And then when doctor Grant reimaged that the patient's brain, he found that that area was was no longer there, that the problem with the low blood flow no longer existed.

So there's this idea that it could be biological. I'd also read that if we were had to treat it like UM an impulse control disorder such as pathological gambling or cleptomania, UM, we might look at the serotonin centers of the brain. UM, we might be able to treat them with the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Okay, yeah, basically any depressants. Yeah, basically try to replace that behavior with the feeling that the reuptake inhibitors would give them, right,

or the seratonin or maybe you get them. Really unto the idea of using flamethrowers at big events in the desert, I don't know. I mean maybe that's that's right. Maybe they get to put the torch to the burning man. Yeah, So there have it U pyromania. And we actually you actually threw the question out on our Facebook group what is your relationship to fire? And so we definitely would like to hear from everyone, Like, really, you don't have

an excuse to not have an opinion on fire. It's not like it's not like we're asking about an Obscure Doors album or something. We're talking about fire. So you know, I'm very curious, like how did how does your upbringing relate to it? Like for me, it's like I remember like early on, we would go on camping trips or or my dad would be grilling, you know, on the back porch or something. So there was always not always, but there was frequently fire around and I definitely played

in the fire. Yeah, and we got some really great responses on Facebook. Um, and everybody did have a different experience, although you know, some people were aunt colors like I was. That seems to be a common theme. So so yeah, let us let us know about that. And if you want to find us on Facebook, just do a search for stuff to blow to the mind. That's how you find us on there. Uh. And well when we're also on Twitter as below the mind. Uh, And we have

to take those pretty regularly. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me reach into the listener. Male back here real quick. Thank you robots, Laura writes in and says, Hi, Robert and Julie in regards to your comments on Japanese dollwomen, probably my favorite synonym for Lolita and living with robots? Can we build a better bot? I must correct Robert in that the darker sister of lo Lolita is referred

to as Gothic Lolita. This is defined as a style similar to Lolita, which is the way of dressing as though one is an often female Victorian child, complete with many many lace frills through mixing, as the name suggests, a dark color palette. Though it is most popular in Japan, I am a frequenter of a few Gothic Lolita stores in Europe in the Great Duss Morgese Board of Camden

Market and speak for my own experience. Just to clear things up, Thanks for providing an informative and mentally stimulating podcast, Laura. So yeah, yeah, I got that a little mixed up there. I think I was thinking of Kauai the whole like, and I may be saying that Kui call the cute, and then there's Kawaii nor the which is dark cute, So this is similar, but it's uh, yeah, this is the Gothic loluga. So they like she said, frills, but

black frills. Just on a side tangent here too. When we were doing research for this, my eye landed on something called coro. I hope I have that right ka o r o, which I from what I understand, and I didn't pay a lot of attention to us because it didn't really relate to this podcast, but it is Japanese and it's sort of a weird thing is that there's this idea that your genitalia can retract, and there's this irrational fear that they may just completely retract into

your body. Yeah, so there you go. I don't know, maybe maybe we need to do a podcast on irrational fear so I can understand that. Yeah, well it was one of the things I was like, that is bizarre, but yeah, I could understand have have somehow that could get in someone's mind and you would start to really fear that, especially as a child. Yes, yes, well they're there.

There's a whole host of years that can be associated with with genitalia as a child, especially if nobody bothers to explain to you what he is going on with him or should be going on with them. But that's again. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, so maybe that's an upcoming episode. I don't know. So, Hey, so someone wants to We already talked about Facebook and Twitter. What if someone wants to send us some email and have the

robot bring it to us? Oh? Very easy. All you have to do is send us a line at Blue the Mind at House to works dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join the House to Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.