Pope on a Cosmic Rope

of my dad's old magazines and stuff and um. And there was one that depicted the this medieval space race between you know, kind of like the Holy War between the West and in the Middle East, except it was the space race. And so you have a Catholic Church blasting off into space on a rocket that was propelled Uh.

It didn't have you know, a rocket engine in the lower portions of of the of the spaceship, but it had all these monks and they were just like busy praying, and it was propelled into orbit via contemptous Monday, uh, contempt for the Earth, and that was how they would achieve orbit. Yeah. But as it turns out that while there is not necessarily a Catholic space program or a or a Vatican space program per se, the the Vatican and the the Catholic Church is very interested in the cosmos.

I mean, to a certain extent, they have been for a long time, because I mean there was a time back in the Middle Ages you had to study astronomy in order to understand theology. The Catholic Church was interested in calendar, so they're interested in the way the spheres

are moving. And there's just a rich history of the two overlapping each other, at least until things become shaky, right, yes, yes, And and of course that brings to mind Galileo, right, and the whole heliocentric model which turned the Catholic Church

on its head back in the day. Going from the idea that the the Earth was the center of the universe, too, something else might be the center of the universe, namely the Sun, and and that it's kind of like you can keep keep telling me science about the second when it starts interfering with the theology, then we're gonna have to have a serious, frank discussion about why you're a heretic and why you should agree with us on this one right, right, because there's this idea right that humans

have sort of a birthright to the universe. And so if you're going to tell me that Earth is not the center of it all. Then who you know, who is the center of the universe if it's not humans. So that was like the main problem, right Yeah. Now since that time that the theology has come around to encompass this, this idea, but at the time that theology

was not going to shift. No, it took them three hundred and fifty years to admit that Galileo was right, And in two thousand and nine they recktoned a statue to him. And I'm gonna bet I haven't seen the statue, but I'm gonna bet it's not of him kneeling before the tribunal, yeah, or broken by the inquisition, right right, saying no, no, it was never mind, that was all wrong Philip Glass. Today, I believe, Yeah, philk Class did

an opera about Galileo. Is there. Of course I have not seen it, but my understanding is that it's told in reverse, so it starts with a broken Galileo, you know, with everything in its life and shambles, and then works backwards. I love that guy, but every time I think of him, I always think of that that sort of corresponding um dance moves that tend to go along with any filk class music, and it's always like people rolling back and forth on a on a floor. Wos some interesting dance clubs.

Yeah you don't see that the role Yeah yeah, the house remixes of philk class. Yeah. But so yeah, there's there there. There's a whole hullablulu of heliocentrism, which mirrors in a in a weird way, the search for extraterrestrial life, right, because again it's furthering that idea of well, if it's if it's if it's not us or you know, who is it? Are there other people out there? This idea

that UM, this anthropomorphic idea of being questioned. Yeah, people are gonna be like, hey, God created anim and Eve, not kling Lower and Subican or something, you know, I mean, I mean just the idea that if we were to find alien like it, it throws a lot of things into You have to reevaluate a lot of accepted theology at the idea that UM accepted within the various churches that that say that God created the humans in his image, Like, then what does that mean of their aliens? What is

their role are they? Do they need to be saved? Do they need to be converted? Or are they good, what's the rules? So it's really fascinating that the Catholic Church would involve itself so heavily as of late with the last two years in the cosmos. Again, not so much because of their past history. Um, you know, they're very academic in terms of um their view on cosmology. But the fact that they would even embrace the idea

of aliens existing, it's sort of shocking. Yeah, because it is one of those things, Like I said, it would just it would throw a wrench into Uh. I'm not saying that, you know, theology would would have to shift to it and belief would change, but it would cause a lot of people to have to reevaluate how they view the universe. So enter a man by the name of Guy Consum, who who I Actually I get to see him a couple of years back, became and and I spoken a local college. He's a fascinating Guy's a

really interesting dude. He maintains the Vaticans meteorite collection, among other things. Oh yeah, yeah. He has two degrees in Earth and Planetary science from M I T. And he works for the pope. So that's how he's sort of bridging this whole uh, you know, Catholic Church and and science movement as of late and uh, specifically he studies the origins of asteroids, dwarf planets, and objects orbiting the Sun beyond Neptune. And he entered the Jesuit order. And

this is what I thought was interesting too. He has an interest in science because he was greatly influenced by science fiction. Cool. Yeah, and he's a really cool beard too, to say he has a magnificent beard. Yeah. I mean he's just a very well spoken guy. Like you say, though, I mean he's been he's been making the rounds recently. He's not speaking not just at faith based colleges, but also showing up on like the Colbert Report, even not

not exactly the most risk free interview environment. You know, he's he's showing up the He just all over the lecture circuit. No, but he's a savvy guy and he's got a lot of very interesting things to say about how the church is squaring um, you know, space exploration and aliens because it's just the possible existence of aliens with theology and uh, and and very upfront about to say that, you know, the church getting it spectacularly wrong about Galileo or or even you know, touching on issues

of of intelligent design and an evolution. Like he's not going so far as to say, yeah, that you should just be totally behind evolution, but he's he's you see him really stomping on especially the American conservative branch of intelligent design, which oh yeah, he calls it bad theology, and he says that it's been hijacked by American creationists fundamentalists, and that it's essentially turning Christianity into a pagan god who's responsible for lightning and thunder rather than the Earth

being responsible for its atmosphere, which is like, whoa, yeah, Like consider that this is coming from uh, someone in the Catholic Church. But there is a really interesting quote that I pulled in. This is from a psycom you see Santa Cruz interview by alyssa Poem, and she asked him, what's your advice for scientists believers who don't necessarily wear a collar so you're you know, you believe in God, but you're a scientist, And he said, there's nothing to

be gained by talking religion in the scientific context. It doesn't belong there. I'd like to see more scientists who are churchgoers talk about their science in their church to their fellow parishioners. Love of them. Know that science isn't the enemy. I think there's a great hunger for science among everyone. It's a human desire to know how the universe works. Also, you can't do science without admitting I don't have all the answers. Unfortunately, that's never the way

science is communicated. Scientists like saying I've got the answers, when in fact real science says no, I don't have the answers. I'm still trying to find them. That would lower the temperature of any discussion. So I thought, you know what, that is a really interesting, measured way to talk about that. You know, it's basically the idea that that science is really important obviously and sets up to

it to answer some extremely important questions about life. But maybe that that religion has has has an important role in the ethical dimensions of life that are outside the realm of science. Right. He's saying that, you know, in terms of his interpretation of the Bible, he doesn't take it literally. Um that there are these are wonderful stories to glean lessons from. But and I think that's his problem with the whole creationism thing is that there's a

lot of uh literal stuff going on there. But I have thought about this guy that you know, he's he is fascinating um to know more about. And in fact, if you want to go to scom and see that you see Santa Cruz interview by less A Pool, you

can find out a lot more about him. But I sort of wondered, is this the guy who's driving uh this sort of mission from the Catholic Church or is this just you know, them being progressive, yeah, or is this the progressive guy that has that really has that again is really driving something in the church or is this the progressive guy that they let off the leash

to sort of make good with the media. Right, because you see some other other things that the churches is doing recently that that that is it falls into similar ground.

For instance, the church recently backed an adult stem cell research company called Neo Stem to the tune of about a million dollars, which granted, that's kind of chump change for the church, but still, uh, something is is volatile as as stem cells, uh you know, and they're you know, and they're not going to get behind anything but adults

stem cells at this point. But still they think at least you know, through a few bucks behind the adult stem cell research, which was which is which is interesting well, and again that's the scientific research part of it, right, so they are furthering that mission for science. They've also hosted a conference between astronomerus, physicists, by and biologists to discuss the existence of alien life and what effect it

would have on the Church and Christianity and astronomers. Father Fuentes he said that the search for e T does not conflict with our faith quote because we cannot put creative limits on the freedom of God unquote. So again this is some really interesting messaging coming out of Catholic Church about this. Yeah. This this guy's the same the same one who who said that the aliens might potentially live in a sinless state, which I think I read that where like I still have a big question mark

over my head about that. Yeah, well it does underline an interesting idea. I mean, it gets into the idea of what if we've we come across the alien life and they're far better than us, They're superior to us there, technologically, morally, ethically, way better than us. Then we wouldn't be able to, you know, walk into the room and say hey, we got some some pamphlets we want you to read, and they're like, no, thank you, we're you know, we've involved

the on consciousness and less. Yeah, there's inner sinless by the way you read our pamphlet. Um. Yeah, it's funny. It's someone who posts the question about whether or not Constant Manio would baptize and alien and he said, well, of course if if they would like that. Um. But then he went on to say that, you know, it's it's it's probably not likely that we're going to find this being and there's the question of it being intelligent and us being able to communicate with it, and so

it's not really a practical question. Yeah, if you have, it depends on who you ask about the whole, Like, you know, what are what are the chances that there's life and in in the in the universe beyond us, and and then what are the chances that it's intelligent?

Then what are the chances that will encounter it. It becomes a safer and safer bet that the church is making here by talking about it at all, you know, because it's like it's kind of Like, I can talk all day about how great I'm going to be of an alien lands in the office here at work, but we both know it's not gonna happen. So I'm not

gonna have to you I can say, I can. I'll bait cakes and give speeches all day, but I'm not gonna have to learn any lines or bring any baking stuff to like they're not going to have to commit to baptizing aliens and really getting behind that in earnest right, Yeah, it's yeah, So it's it's a safe bat. Yeah, that's that's my read on it. Now. I know, I think it's very interesting, and I think, you know, is this are they ahead of the curve or you know, is

this a marketing stunt? Yeah? We we're making the comparison yesterday to the episode of the Office, the American version where everyone's afraid of age discrimination. So Creed, the the older creepy dude on the show. Um, he shows up to work with his hair dyed black and starts trying to talk about things that are young and hip. So, you know, the the cynical side of me reads a lot of this and sees Creed with his obviously dyed black hair where it's you know, it's like the old

church saying, hey, how about those space aliens. So so what you're saying is that the church is trying to appeal to a wider audience and is wearing skinny jeans underneath their vestments. I think that's one view, that one that one can take this one interpretation of what's going on. Um I I'm I don't necessarily. I think that's there are probably a lot of of of minds behind this movement, and there's some people. I'm sure guy totally believes in

what he's he's putting out there. Oh no, I mean, that's the interesting thing about this person is that he's obviously he's a scientist, you know, through and through he just I think he happens to wear the collar and he's again he's trying to square that for himself, possibly in for the Catholic Church and for our perception of that. So there's no doubt I don't think that he's like any sort of marketing machine. I think he's the real deal, and that's why he's so fascinating. He's got some really

interesting insights into science and theology. Um. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess we'll know on the more getting side if that's really what they're pursuing. If the Pope, you know, addresses an audience and starts dropping L O L weaferences or um or like Creed comes out with some blue hair, perhaps this presentation is brought to you

by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. That's hard to say, but I think it's a fascinating proposition for where we are right now, that the Catholic Church is looking at science in this way and opening the discussion and asking people to to consider their place in the world in the in the context of um of life, life outside of the earth. I'm trailing off a little bit on that because I'm like, yeah, I don't want to get too philosophical, but you know, I think you're picking up what I'm

putting down there. Uh. It makes me think of a line a quote that I got from professor by the name of Varadaja v Rahman. And he's the author of Truth and Tension and science and religion and um and uh. If I remember he's actually um uh Hindu um and he has he has a lot of interesting ideas on this because he he often puts out that there's not as much there's not really a clash between science and Hinduism, that the the the controversies between science and religion tend

to exist more in Western societies. And uh, and he had this great did you tell me? He said, I seriously doubt that the dialogue between religion and science will cease, But I do believe that as a result of these exchanges, religion is likely to become less irrational and some of its expressions in some of its expressions. In fact, one would hope that the greatest contribution science can make in calming religion is to eradicate the many unpleasant, unhappy, and

in many cases destructive aspects of religious expression. So I I personally find that really encouraging. I like this view that that it's not a situation of science and religion duking it out and just extre emails them. Yeah. Yeah, that that these two things can can coexist in a in a way that is not harmful to the culture as a whole. Yeah. And I've always wondered why we've had to set up this paradigm of the other, you know, as humans, in order to think that we have to

exist the way we exist. Um, So I do think it's interesting that that both sides could possibly come to the table and for for the greater good of humanity. I'm holding out for that. Yeah. And I like the idea that finding alien life wouldn't just freak everyone out and send everybody into a tizzy because I I don't feel like my I mean, my world view would be changed significantly if we if we found aliens. But you know it's I don't I wouldn't jump off a building.

So do you think the aliens might be wearing the funny hat? That's the question? Yeah, all right, do we have any listener emails? We have some emails. UM, a listener by the name of Mr Squirrel. Right, and you know, you get to you get to choose your own name on the internet, So go for it. Um says hi, I love the squirrel well, and he says, Hi, I love the podcast. I had a few quick additions to

your subliminal mentioning podcast. In particular, I'm fascinated fascinated by the way ways in which casinos have used it to keep their clients paying Um. And then he and Mr Squirrel had the three examples knows no visible clocks anywhere on the floor on the floor to cause people to lose track of time, bright flashing lights and allowed sounds to disorient and tantalize people with the chance of winning an amaze like floor design so that people will walk by many games on their way in and out. M

I'm seeing some similarities with casinos and workplaces a little bit. Yeah, yeah, what do we have. We don't really have clocks around. We have somewhat of amaze we do, but it doesn't go through like a gift shop or anything. Well, you haven't been to the gift shop. I haven't. Then where where's the gift shop? Man? You haven't been. I don't know that I can tell you. Okay, that's not a janitorial closet. That's all I'm gonna say. Well cool, those

are Yeah, I mean casinos are are very interesting. Um. We could probably do a whole podcast enters in ways that that that they mess with people and ensnare them. Oh yeah, And it wouldn't be fascinating to to run an m R I on someone who's gambling. What it's going on in that head? Yours is you're playing the One Armed bandit? Um. Here we have another one from a listener by the name of a friend reference, and they're writing in response to the attack of the Creative

Brain podcast. Uh, let's say. I'm an artist, a visual artist. So many times I have thought I'm crazy, and I've gone on to accept that just because I'm an artist, until you said that it could be possible that my mind just gets overloaded with ideas. Um, I've I've accepted my craziness and I know that I'm always thinking of ideas NonStop. I can't help it. If someone says something about I don't know a tree, I'll immediately picture trees

in my head. I'll draw them in my head a variety of ways, and I'll automatically begin to brainstorm idea after idea, like I'm watching it being created in my head rather than contributing. I feel there are ideas in my head that are originally mine, and I feel their ideas in my head that I have received. I've always felt like just a vessel. I know I am just a vessel, and now thinking of it, it kind of makes me think of another podcast of yours, as You've

got a genius. When you guys said that we are just host to all of this bacteria. So is our brain too, am I simply a transmitter equipped with the dexterity and circumstances to receive, interpret, and relay creative information through visual representation. So it's the crazy. My ability to organize these ideas a mental stenographer is what I am in great need up. Let me know if you come across one. Thanks for your info. Again, another great email

with tons of insight, because we did. We talked about that. We talked about the parallels between UM. You know, people who have this ability to not filter UM out as many ideas, right, And I believe this was the the flow of neurons and and then there was the the schizophrenic aspect. And that doesn't that's not saying that people who share this similar um brain action are all crazy.

It just says that, you know, they've they've studied schizophrenics and they've studied people who are highly creative and they noticed that the same thing happens UM. So it's really interesting to hear a firsthand acount about that. Yeah, just an insight into the artistic mind and like what's going on when you're creating things? So cool. Thanks for letting

us know about that. And so if you have any interesting ideas you want to share about how casinos and snare our mind, how the creative process works, or indeed, if you have any thoughts on the whole um combination of Church and cosmos, and in the Vatican's interest in space and how that might relate to your own worldview, then let us know. We're on Facebook and Twitter as Blow the Mind and you can always drop us a line at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com.

For more on this and thousands of our topics, visit how stuff works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today on iTunes.