Packing for Mars with Mary Roach

Curious Science of Life in the Void. Yeah, and that was released as the summer Yeah. Her her three previous books are all great. Uh. Stiff deals with the story of human cadavers. Interestingly, when we interviewed her, she was saying that she didn't think that book would sell. Yeah, yeah, she well, she's been surprised at at how some of her follow up books didn't like instantly surpassed that one,

because you know, cadaver's Okay. Then the second one, Spook, was about um science and the supernatural, which is also a really great book. I read that one. And then the third one was about sex balk and uh, and she she was sure that one was going to be the big you know, the one that's gonna be even more of a hit. But but Stiff is remaining like the colossal best seller of the of her work so far. And they're all they're all great. Yeah, yeah, we highly

advocate reading them. Um. So we did have the chance to interview her, and uh, we're gonna share some of that interview with you guys today. So I thought one of the things that she did really well is just kind of breaking down the mythology of the astronaut and making astronauts into just regular old humans. Here she is talking about the first astronaut she met. I remember, um,

my first astronaut. You know, I was down at Johnson Space Center and I had never I've never met an astronaut and it was the skuy Lee Moore and he's just this this regular guys wearing kind of a yeah Hawaiian shirt and cheenose and brown shoes. And I was like, oh, I'm going to meet an astroid and I meet this kind of like oh my god, they're just people for starters, you know, so the whole like mythology, Uh this doesn't you know. You meet you meet them and right away

you realize they're just they're just people. And then you start to learn about what they go through all the things that you were saying, plus some of the you know, kind of worrisome physiological changes, and it's yeah, very quickly ceases to be this high glamour job. Yeah. And then you asked her if there was one particular example of a space absurdity that really just made her side. Yeah, this is my next book. This is what I'm going

to explore next. I think that there was that paper I came across fairly early on, when I was pretty sure I was going to do it, but not entirely sure. It came across this paper from n on Space Nutrition and Related waste problems, and it was these guys sort of thinking outside box about Mars, and they were, you know, because you're it's two to three your mission and food is you can't pack lots of delicious food and you know, launch it for a crew of six or three years.

So they were thinking like, well, we could we could create clothing out of edible keratin fibers that they could wear for a while and then when they were done wearing it, they could eat it. And then there was the guy who was saying that, um, uh well, they could um actually be eating pieces of the spacecraft. We could you make these edible proteins for some of the interiors of that we won't be neating after we've been on the surface of Mars when we were coming home.

We'll just eat that, eat that module. And you know, just this sort of plus the you know, the the very very extreme recycling that would have to be done in terms of, um, drinking your own sweat and urine. Uh that I think at that point I was like, oh, yeah,

this is this Narry roach country. So of course we had to ask her if she was a space geet going in to writing the book or if she became one in the process, And it turns out she was a little bit of one beforehand, but uh but in writing the book, she found herself like watching NASA TV all the time. So so here's what she had to say about that. I was a space a little bit of a space geek. I never watched Star Trek and

I wasn't a science fiction reader. But I did a story at this for Discover magazine years ago where I went to the neutral Buoyancy tank, which is that just it's like the size of the Gulf of Mexico. It's not it's heat, but it's this huge swimming pool that they submerged pieces of the International Space Station and then have the astronauts rehearse really addressed rehearsal, wearing their actual suits, um rehearse all the moves that they're going to do.

And I remember just being kind of overwhelmed by the delightful geekiness of it all. And you know, and I am kind of a geek, so um NASA was kind of the magical kingdom in a way. I was like, all, get all this stuff, you know, just there's just all manner of things you never would imagine existing are down there. We were talking about how the public's perception and enthusiasm for space exploration has kind of waxed and waned over the years. You even mentioned to say that it might

be a little boring now. Definitely been boring for for a while there, because they started out really exciting with space exploration. You know, these people are going out in the space, they're getting stuff down their cowboys, you know, and then there was this long period of kind of to most people, I think, kind of boring science experiments in space so yeah, we had to ask Mary where

where where she thought we are now and where we're going? Yeah, and how we could turn things around fair space exploration. I think we're at a point where we could turn it around and make it not boring by going somewhere new, you know. I think that the the Moon base UM plan, the plan to go back and people for six months

or more to live on the moon. UM. I think just because it's the Moon and people feel the general public feels like, well, we've we've been there, we went there seven times, um, why why are we going back? I think that um to just simply to go somewhere new.

If not, if they you know, the partisan bickering and the policy and the politics can sort of if they can sort out where they where we're gonna what we're gonna do, where we're gonna go, and I think you you really and it's somewhere new, you really could start to capture people's imaginations again. Uh, it wouldn't doesn't have to be Mars, I mean near with that story, just

something that is um different and exciting for people. I think it's still even when we were in orbit, um a lot of really really interesting cool stuff was going on. It just doesn't always get reported that way or reported at all. So we we also asked her how astronauts have changed, or rather the role of the astronaut has changed again from the cowboys of the rights off to the more you know, the more the scientist astronaut we

have today. Um, so she talked a little about about that, about the class between the old school and the new school scientist. They couldn't be more different. It really was eighty degree turn on on on what makes the perfect astronaut because you got the you know, early on one guy, so it didn't matter if he didn't play well with others. You have one guy in an a mission that's a few hours long, and so what you want is somebody who's aggressive, brave, unfazed by high risk, uh able to

deal with an emergency, calm and an emergency. That that sort of the right stuff, which became very much the wrong stuff by the time we get to the Shuttle era where you've got or the I S S even more to the point where you've got six months and longer missions and five six people, then you really don't you don't want that kind of personality. You would want somebody's you know, the list of attributes I love some of them, like ability to form stable and quality interpersonal

relationship because they've liked John Glenn. Can you imagine area that being even the word relationships entering into it, you know, flexibility, fairness, empathy, all these things that you don't you don't really associate with the right stuff. But then going going into the future, if we do go to Mars, then you then you kind of want both of those because it's going to be a bigger crew, so you want people who get

along well in the group. But then again you also needs a self starter and somebody who can deal with emergencies with sort of leadership and calm, you know that that whole right stuff things. So I don't know how they're going to find up these people. I mean, it's kind of a super human combination. People are usually one or the other. Speaking of the perfect astronaut, we went through this crazy list of physiological traits um that some

space agencies think are important for astronauts to have. And it was because it was a funny exchange. So here's this chatting about how that astronaut might turn out if all the various random traits were taken into account. Yeah, there's all these you could get well, and they're they're talking about you. She look for people whose intestinal flora

did not produce methane because that's explosive. So you gotta look at what kind of what their farts contain, you know what, somebody who's snores, because that wakes everybody up. You don't want something with bad breath. That's the Chinese Space Agency. Also African American women, Uh well, we're after women in general because they consume less oxygen than food. African Americans sticker bone density so uk. So you want a deaf, mute African American woman who does not snore

and doesn't produce methane. And then on top of that the right personality. Of course, as you know, science writers and science hitters. We had to ask her about her her method uh in writing this book and really kind of writing all of them. And what's amazing about her writing is that she's not just summarizing journal findings or you know, kind of twisting the research into a new light or even um, I mean, she is very much translating it into layman's terms, much as we hope to do.

But she's getting to people in the flesh, she's talking to them, she's making them come alive on the page. And also Mary Roach is very much a character in her own books. You know, it's like you're really right there with Mary in each of these as she goes out and talks to these people, you know, and uh and really learns, so you know what the dirt is

on everything from corpses to going into space. Yeah, so here she is talking a little bit about storytelling and her method of putting together books and why science isn't boring. I mean, when I contact people frequently, they say, oh, well, I'll send you a paper and we can talk, and I'm always having to write back and say, now, it doesn't really work very well for readers that way. I need to actually come visit you and be there and see what you're doing and have a scene with people

who are talking to each other and doing things. And even that, isn't that a traditional book narrative? Usually that's a through line all the way through the book, and that is Yeah, that's another way to do it, and

probably the best way. But even just having a chapter by chapter a setting in a narrative framework to hang the facts on helps a lot and getting people interested in science because people have this notion that science is boring, which kind of blows my mind, because science is scientists, it's you. You know, it's your your audience, your backyard, it's your dog, it's the weather, it is it is everything,

And how how could you possibly think it's boring? But you know, it's often along scientists because they're at such a high level of understanding it. It is boring to the general public to pick up a paper from a journal. So you do have to as a science writer, which is a title like I guess I were, But um, you do have to find ways to make it accessible and make it real and storytelling is I think the

best way. You know, she really got some amazing details and stuff that we never hear about, at least not regularly and and not certainly not stuff that NASA broadcasts. Um, pretty much the messy realities of motion, sickness and going to the bathroom in space and all sorts of good

stuff like that. So I was asking her if astronauts were relieved to finally lift the curtain on the reality of life and space and sometimes smelly reality of life and space well, the cosmonauts in general are just very straightforward, just just lay it on the line kind of people. There's less concern I think about what is the proper thing to say? Maybe, so just culturally, they're a little

more free wheeling in their conversations. And in fact, I was surprised by if you sit down and have a conversation with an astronaut, even an active astronaut, not retired, it's always easier when somebody's retired, but any and you talk about a range of topics, uh not just you know, sex and poop. If you if you're having an interesting conversation about larger issues of space exploration and challenges, and you eventually make your way around to something like that,

that's fine. I think what bothers them is when you specifically would request, if you were to request an interview specifically about um, sex and space, because that, I think to them kind of it's kind of consulting in a way like that, that that that that this is the most interesting thing that the public can find, you know, when they do what they do, a lot of the research that they do, and it's it is interesting in its own right, and so I think it's frustrating when

people only ask about those things. So if you, if you, if you bring it up in a in a larger context, they're fine talking about it and along those lines. Because again there's this whole chapter just on going to the bathroom instead. Yeah, it's it's it's you know, if you only read one chapter in this book, you know, it's kind of like it's the one to read. Um. And and I have to you know, I have to say I thought I knew a lot about going to the bathroom and space going in because we even did that

whole part. We did a podcast on it, I've written about it, and but now Mary had some stuff that I was not prepared for. Hcapees. Yeah, I was watching a John Stewart clip. She was on a John Stewart and they had everywhere. Yeah, she's really been doing a lot of pr for us. She was talking about escapees. So I had to ask her which she thought was grosser. Um a phenomenon called fecal popcorning. Oh that's still against me every time, or the the fecal glove. So here,

here we go. Here's what she had to say about that. I think if you're a dog owner, probably not that big a deal, because it's really like, you know, those people go walk down the street with a New York Times sleeve plastic newspaper, sleep and pick up their dog poop, turned it inside out. Done, No big deal. So I would imagine somebody was used to that, wouldn't. I mean, it is your own material, which is a little unusual.

But uh, I think that the the issue with the shuttle toilet with with escape ease as they called it, with little pieces um escaping and making their way around um the capsule or the module or the shuttle in

this case, what is very very distasteful. I mean, there was there was a mission I think I mentioned the book where there was sort of dust because the materials are sort of quick dried, and the dust would when the dust came out, you're inhaling that and that's a disturbing and also you don't necessarily want that in your lungs. So I think that that was the high tech I would guess that when the high tech device malfunctions, um,

it is more. In fact, I know it is because there were people on that mission who opted not to use the shuttle toilet and used the contingency, which was the fecal bag because they of that problem with this, they called it flow back. It was that dust that was escaping and flying around. I think it was the Shuttle, perhaps it was the I S. S. But either way, they preferred to deal with the indignities of the fecule bag then to be inhaling that stuff. So that's pretty

men wraps it up. But I do want to end with Mary's take on the future of man space flight. I would love to see a Man marsmis partly because you know what this is something I didn't realize before I did the book. But every program has kind of been preparing for the next Like Gemini was just flat out working out the kinks for a moonshot. It was like, let's practice stalking in space. Let's see what happens to two people's skin if they were spaces for two weeks

without a shower. Let's figure out all the steps here in orbit, and then we go into the Moon. So Gemini was preparation for Apollo. The International Space Station has been this ten year exercising global space cooperation, all these different nations communicating, participating, lending expertise and funding, and the whole aim of that was too prepare for long term space life in space, which was the whole idea. There was um getting ready for Mars. So to stop now

seems like, well, what was all that about? What was the past fifty years about? If we're not going to go on to Mars? So, I mean, I know that's not you know, obviously there's budget issues. It's very expensive. I would love it to be a wed love to see it, you know, an international effort where a lot of different nations are contributing money and expertise, and also just everybody on the planet would be watching. It would be kind of an amazing event, uh, for the world

to witness. So, I mean it makes me become set. Probably it probably won't happen in my lifetime. I'm guessing I'm fifty one, and uh, if we'd be lucky to have this happening, I think unless somebody proposes something really radical, like one way mission with people go and then just live the rest of their lives there and because then you know that the tricky part is coming back. So there you have it. Our interview with Mary Roach. She shared a lot of great stuff and was just a

real pleasure to talk to um. Just you know she turned out. We were wondering, it's like, oh, she's gonna be like she is in the book, you know, is it gonna be the same experience, and and it really is. She was. She was great. Yeah, you know. We asked whether she would pack from ours and she said no, not the personality type permission to Mars, but a two week trip to the moon signed Mary up. After all, she did climb aboard the Vomit comment ak a the C nine, So I think she's pretty much game for

just about anything, including topics. So yeah, if you've never read anything by Mary Roach, check those out. Um. She also did a ted talk um having to do with with like ten like things about sex um that came out around the time of her Bok books. So also you do a ted talk search on that or a

YouTube search and you can you can find that. Yeah, and by all means, if you've read her, or if you've read Packing from Hers, tell us what you think on Facebook We're stuff from the Science Lab, or on Twitter or lab stuff, or you can always send us an email at science Stuff, how stuff works dot com MH for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff works dot Com. Want more how stuff works. Check out our blogs on the House stuff works dot Com home page