Nutmeg: The Scary Spice

holiday things. Uh, the holiday foods, the holiday visits with family, um, the holiday travel, the listening to the holiday music at the train station as it's piped in to fill everyone with holiday cheer and reduce gang violence. It seems like

Christmas last for several months, just forever. But one of the things that's reassuring is when we can find some little bit of Christmas that also has a dark side to it, or I don't reassuring to me, be at Crampus in his his relationship with St. Nick, or in this case, a little something called nutmeg, which, as you say, it's a little bit of Christmas that you can find all year long. Yeah, I mean it basically is the smell of Christmas, right it is, and and people love it.

They love it on their eggnog, on their fancy coffee drinks, and in some savory dishes. Um. It's probably something that you've never considered before as having an evil side, but in fact it does. You also have it insiders. Um, I don't like him. Inside. I love cider, but but there's something about either if it's hard side or a soft side, or it's got the nutmeg, and I don't

really go for it. But but in other things, like a little bit of of nutmeg on top of some eggnog, a little bit of nutmeg on top of even like a vanilla milkshake. It gives it just a little a little punch, right, there's a little just some heat to it, like a dry heat. Yes. And it's actually that's app that you say that's a dry heat, because it's explained that way in what we say, or what we call

the four temperaments. Um. And we talked about this before, this idea that there are four different tomperaments that rule the human body. This is a very old idea, dry, cold, hot, and wet. So Um. This spice is actually thought to help with various ailments because the idea is that you

have to balance these four temperaments. So when you have this spice, which is kind of like a bitter cinnamon um, it is thought, at least in some ancient civilizations and cultures, that it could actually have a myriad effects on your body, which we will explore a bit. Yeah, I mean it's in it's in a lot of cool Indian dishes. It's it's in coca cola. Uh, you find it all over

the place, but it is. It is, like we said, it's a very old thing using the nutmeg, But some of the more ancient uses of it really relate more to medicinal purposes and folk medicine purposes, in addition to in some cases culinary sources as well. So it has a very interesting history which we're going to get into, and then it has a very arresting effect on the human body, depending on how much you're taking in. Well, let's get to the nut of it, as it were. Yes,

what is the nutmeg? Right? Is it some fancy spice that I don't know comes out of a dead sand worm? Is it? Is it carved out of the earth. No, it's it's like you said, it's from this nut right, Yes, And it comes actually from the nutmeg tree which has grown commercially in Indonesia, Penang Island, Malaysia, and the West Indies.

It's an evergreen with thick, dark green leaves and reaches a maximum height of forty feet um and in some cases or some areas that actually shrub like, and it has fragrant yellow flowers that produce yellow fruit about the size and the shape of apricots. And a lot of people don't realize that it's actually coming from this fruit

bearing tree. And so you get you have the fruit, and if you peel away the fruit, or if you're like a two can, two cans apparently love to eat the fruit, peel away the fruit and you'll find basically you'll find in here the nutmegs seed and the nutmegs seed itself is wrapped up in these flaps of of what is called mace, which is another spice derivative is

obtained from the mace. So that kind of netting on it. Yeah, it's kind of like this netting kind of like an outer uh well not an outer skin, but peel a way the first layer of fruit and then there'll be another small layer of mace, and then in the very center that's your nut that's your nutmeg seed, and that's what's dried by sunlight for about one to two months.

And then when it's dried, it's pretty much like oval in shape and about an inch long, has a wrinkled surface, and it's got fragrant oil contained in the veins of the seed and that's what gives it that nice scent um, that that that aroma that we associate with the holidays. Yeah, now, how long have people been using nutmeg and things. It's really hard to say, certainly millennia, just to be vague about it. We know that it's been used in Asia

for just ages. We know that the ancient Romans used it, but mainly to sprinkle into alcoholic drinks, which which we still do to some agree today. I was looking around and uh, there were none of the drinks or anything I was particularly familiar with. But there are drinks, mixed

drinks and cocktails that call for nutmeg. That's far to Medieval Renaissance banquets and mason nutmeg were both very popular, along with things like cinnamon, which they would just throw into dishes, just large amounts, because I guess at that

time maybe the more you could cover up, the better. Right, and then and then in the centuries to follow it became so fashionable among French courmets that you'd actually bring your own nutmeg to a banquet so that you could add nutmeg to your to your own dish, to your

own particular taste. Well. And that was absolutely a sign of wealth too at that time, right, because then this became the spice of the upper classes because it was so highly coveted at that time the seventeenth century um and onward into the eighteenth century that European traders were selling it at nearly a six thousand percent mark up. Yeah, this stuff was just like gold. It was. We saw one historian who's referring to it as the iPhone of

the time too. It's just like so popular. Everybody had to have it, I mean to the point where people had to have it nearly because it was a status symbol. Yeah. Absolutely, if you were carrying it, that meant that you were a player. Yeah, you're a player at the table. Like they had like rap videos back back in the sixteenth century. You can totally imagine like guys leaning back, uh, you know, showing off their their nutmeg shaker or grinder or whatever.

Method you would you would choose to to really show off your nutmegitude. Yeah, I know, I'm just trying. I'm putting the wrap is now like coming together. I'm thinking like Tico Brahy kind of a dude, you know, just really you know, with a total gangster lean kind of going on with a nutmeg shaker. No, I'm seeing a tricorn hat perhaps. Yeah. Um. So obviously this becomes a really big deal in the spice trade, along with clothes

and cinnamon. Um. But what you began to see is that there are two different countries that are trying to have some sort of dominancy over this particular nutmeg spice trade, and that is Britain and um in the Netherlands. And they're both trying to push each other out because again we're talking about a six thousand percent markup right, like this is yielding great results. I mean, they've got crops

that aren't doing nearly as well. Um, They've got you know, various livestock that's not going to bring in this kind of money. So it becomes a really big deal. Yeah. And at the time, the other thing that makes it really crazy is that as far as anyone knew, there was really only one place to get it, despite you know the fact we mentioned earlier, it was it was, it was in India. You see it popping up in the aer vedic traditions, you see it popping up in

Asia the ancient Romans. So we're able to get their hands on it. But as far as the Dutch and the English knew, the only place to get it was to sail out to the Run Islands in the Banda Sea, which is now eastern Indonesia. And there were a few islands there, and that's where you went to get the nut. Well, and you know, this is um this is the part of eastern Indonesia. And what you have going on here is you've got the Dutch again trying to be dominant here.

And unfortunately, what they're doing at this time in the Run Islands is that they're telling the inhabitants, if you share any of these seeds with anyone, we will kill you. And they do. Actually, they actually conduct a bit of a genocide on this island, really straight up horrible, like running people off of cliffs, beheading people. And then if you if you weren't actually killed out right, you ran the risk of being deported under horrifying conditions that you

probably would not survive. Uh. And in upwards of of the native population was just wiped out in the name of this super fashionable spice which everyone was into. I mean maybe on some level because of the flavor. Sure, it does add a unique punch to anything you sprinkle it on, but then so much of it was prestige and then these various ideas about what it can do

for you healthwise, which we'll get into in a little bit. Right. Right, So, there are various reasons why the Dutch wanted to try to clamp down on the islanders and make sure that they didn't trade these seeds or sell these seats. And yeah, I mean they're absolutely vicious, very bloody. Um. But that didn't obviously stop the trade because you have some British people who would come and they would grab the plants

and then they would just plant them elsewhere. Um. India's when of the places that they transported Brazil eventually as Sri Lanka. Yeah, and then you have birds, birds eating the fruit and then poving out the seeds in various places along the way. Um, you can't stop the birds. Right.

It reminds me of Monsanto, which is the seed company here in the United States that has a patent on certain seeds, and every once in a while they will try to prosecute farmers who they say are growing their seeds without having actually purchased the seeds, when in fact those seeds actually were blown by the wind over to their land. So it's sort of you know, you get into this situation where it's kind of futile to try

to control nature like this. But that's what the Dutch did. Yeah, you see commercialism and imperialism, uh, smashing head on with natural cycles of biology. Yeah. So it's it's crazy and all simately tragic though that it ends in so much bloodshed.

And of course this is where Manhattan comes in. Yes, Manhattan New Amsterdam as some of our older listeners but I guess, uh but but yeah, so that the Dutch had their little slice of New York here and uh, eventually this goes to British hands, right, But but but what was the trade? What? What was what was valuable enough that they would give up the city that what would become the city that never sleeps? Well, okay, the

Dutch are looking at New Amsterdam. They're saying Okay, there's a fur trade, fur trade going on here, but it's not nearly as lucrative as this nutmeg thing. And we've got to shut this down. Yeah, because they wanted a monopoly on nutmeg, like that was the whole thing. That's why they were vicious enough to wipe out the whole populations. They wanted just to lock down all of it. Nobody gets nutmeg except through the Dutch. But then there's this one island out there, what was thought to be the

only place in the world to obtain nutmeg. One island is in British hands. So this becomes the trade. This is that, this is what they have that the Dutch want more than anything. Yeah, and here's the thing. They say, Okay, look, we will give you this entire island, all the fur trading that you could ever want, if we can just go ahead and close this loophole on run Island and just go ahead and give it to us officially. And

the British do acquiesce. They're not very excited by the trade, by the way, like, I don't know really what to do about this, um, But this is how how Manhattan actually changed hands via nutmeg. All right, all that history stuff will push it to the side because we want to start talking about nutmeg itself and what it does to the human body. Yes, now I do want to

mention real quick. I was I was reading and apparently nutmeg is still a big deal if you're Dutch, like Dutch cuisine, it like does call for a lot of nutmeg, a lot of cinnamon, a lot of clothes, you know, in any of these things that used to be a really exotic and powerful spices. I mean, they were so important at the time. They've remained in an essential part

of their culinary tradition. So even even though around the eighteen hundreds nutmegs ceased to be the super exotic thing, people moved on to getting excited about coffee and chocolate, tobacco more so than before. So but like you said, what is it due to the body? What? What are the health benefits? And this was part of the equation from early on because when we when we look back at references to nutmeg, nutmeg was showing up in medical texts and in dietary text before it was showing up

in culinary text. So it's people were realizing this was something useful, this is something that could be used in in folk medicine to heal various ailments, and it was, and it's a wide array of ailments that it could apparently or supposedly deal with. Yeah, and this is why I ended up in cookery, right, because people are trying

to incorporate it into what they ingested. Around the time of the Black plague too, people wore bags of the spice around their necks as protection against the black plague, and that might seem kind of silly, but um, it's plausible that nutmeg actually repelled fleece that carried plague cause

in bacteria, so there was something perhaps to this. Um. The smell of nutmeg is actually due to something called iso u shun all, a natural pesticide that the plant uses to defend itself against um predators like insects and fun guy. So it's very possible that this was a sort of pesticide that was worn around the neck to ward off fleas. Cool and another big one was dysentery or is the Brits caught it back then the bloody flux, which sounds even more dreadful, but it was believed that

that nutmeg could help with that. So yeah, and then according to Drs. Joseph Pizzorno and Michael Murray, the authors of the Encyclopedia of Healing Foods, Nutmeg oil inhibits over twenty five species of bacteria, including equal I. As far as nutrients go, nutmeg is a good source of vitamin A, vitamin C, iron copper, also a protein or MAGA six, fatty acids, dietary fiber. So there's even if you if you discount some of the wilder claim, so there's a lot of really good stuff going on in in nutmeg.

It's good for liver health. Researchers even today have concluded that that it has a liver productive actions that were that are due to its ability to reduce inflammatory immune chemicals in the human body that would otherwise potentially harm the liver. And it's also been found to relieve symptoms of pain and inflammation, so it could also help with other various symptoms, if not even the core ailments. You know. So there are some definite health advantages just straight straight

up on the table that nuting. They can offer whether it was actually able to secure any kind of dysentery, might ever plague, well maybe not, but it is a healthy thing to ingest, at least in small quantities. Ah, and that's the key, right. And see that's when if we had sound effects, we would have like lightning and thunder cracking, and we begin to talk about nutmeg the vice. Yeah, and this is this is where the where it really

gets interesting. And I think this was ultimately what initially drew our interest and certainly continues to draw a lot of people's interests. The idea of nutmeg as a narcotic nutmeg as an illicit substance that can do all sorts of strange things to you despite being just right up there in the spice rack totally legal and uh and and just you know, just glaring at you and I guess tempting you to some weird degree um you here

every time you open the spice cabinet. Now, we do need to mention though, before we even get into it, just in case someone wants to run off and grab nutmeg, do not do it, because because if we're gonna discuss your taking nutmeg for some sort of illicit pharmaceutical response is for the most part of stupid idea. Because there seems to be two categories right right when people take

nutmeg for recreational purposes. Either it makes them horribly sick, or it gives them just a really horrible time for about forty eight hours where they're basically just delirious, or or there's a third category where you kind of get both your delirious and you're just violently ill, uh and sometimes even hospitalized. Yeah, I mean they kind of you kind of should look at it is like the runs high, right. Yeah.

The first question comes to mind is when did people start figuring this out that if you ingest a lot of nutmeg, and when we say a lot of nutmeg, we're talking like spoonfuls of the stuff. We're like a whole container of nutmeg. But when did people first getting get this idea in their head that they should try it or then it or that once they've tried it, that it does have some sort of strange effect on

the human body. Well from Atlantic Magazine article My Nutmeg bend Or by Wayne Curtis, he says that the Benedictine abbess Hilda Guard of binging Nice Benin noted the mind altering effects of nutmeg all the way back to the twelfth century. So we've got some documentation that people were

dabbling around with it. Then apparently in air vadic medicine, ancient Indian medicine, it was known as mata shonda or narcotic fruit, and it was sometimes chewed with beetle to excite one or it was actually consumed orally to excite the libido. And this is this is an interesting area, the idea that that okay, if you take nutmeg, uh, it could potentially enhance your sex life. And again a very old idea. We see it in ancient India and you see it come up again in various other Texas.

People set out to try and figure out exactly what nutmeg can do for the body when it's taking taken in abnormal doses. There was a man by the name of Andrew Board, and he had a book called Dietary of Health UH in which he says generally nutmegs be good for them which have cold in their head and does comfort the site and the brain. But he uh, interestingly enough, he's a it was a celibate monk, you know,

valve of chastity. And he also suggested that nutmeg damp and sexual desire, which which were reportedly according to some of the dirt on this guy, it didn't really work all that well for it, or maybe he was trying to tap down so much desire that even large quantities of nuting meg didn't help. But then there's another interesting I guess you would say nutmeg psychonot the Earl of Dorset,

Charles Sackville. And this guy, this is the late sixteen hundreds, and we see a reference to him in Samuel Peep's diary. Charles Sackville would would regularly take a spoonful of nutmeg before bedtime, and he claimed that this would fill his dreams with all manner of illicit scenarios, and then he'd

wake up in the morning rather excited by it. Uh And and according to Samuel Peete's um, Sackville eventually wound up in the slammer after a night of quote running up and down all night, almost naked through the streets. So um, all right, But then again, to what extent is this just rather excitable guy anyway? And he takes it,

you know, the placebo effect could be in full, full effective. Yeah, there's no I mean, there's no evidence that it really is an aphrodisiac, but researchers have found it to increase mating behaviors in mice, and it's known to stimulate the circulatory system and increase and flow, so it stands to reason that it could help in terms of sexual drive.

But and then again, we're talking about large doses here, because because generally the consensus is small doses of of nutmeg on a regular basis, as in the kind of nutmeg that you would use in cooking or putting on top of your coffee, or the occasionally a mixed drink or Christmas side or what have you. All that is perfectly fine. It's not gonna hurt you at all, and it will probably have beneficial effects. But it's the ingestion of let's say, a whole nutmeg seed. Right, this is

a huge spoonful every night, that kind of right. This is where we begin to see some some of the hallucinogenic facts of it. And you had already noted some of the possible side effects including loose bowels, vomiting, accelerated heart rate. But also, according to Wing Curtis in that article my Nutmeg Vendor, nutmeg burps at twenty minute intervals. Yeah, I mean again, people, this is not sexy stuff here. Um, this is probably not something that you want to take

and then uh, you know, have a date. In fact, you don't want to take it at all. Um. Over and over again we saw accounts of this, of people saying, this is not really um a hallucinatory experience that is exalted in any way, This is not desirable experience. This is I mean because they're also things like giddiness, laughing fits, yes, fantasies, but also nausea, the heart palpitations, hallucinations. Generally speaking, there

seemed to be two categories of people. The vast majority are the people who try it once and then realize it was a stupid thing they did and they never do it again. And then there's a very small category of people who were just really maybe there's just a there's an obsessive personality about them, or they or they have just an inflated idea of what it's doing for them.

So you see people like Charles Sackville who at least claims to have taken in large doses of it in a regular basis thinking or to some extent, getting some

sort of illicit use out of it. Or I was looking around on moder earn message boards and I ran across one individual who was just really gung ho about figuring out a way how to how to break the nutmeg code, like how to how to combine nutmeg with other substances so that he could get this trippy experience without any of the side effects, which it just seems like he was putting a lot of work into a

just an undesirable coal. And I said, so, by and large, you see people who take it once and never take it again. You can look on YouTube and you'll find people who stupidly decide they're going to take the nutmeg challenge, because there's a lot of that. Have you ray familiar

with this scenario? I think there was like a cinnamon challenge, and and there's like stuff like Saby challenge where it's just idiots taking spoonfuls fulls of things and choking them down and generally choking because you're not supposed to have a spoonful of with Your body knows a spoonful of sabby is a bad idea. Your body knows that a spoonful of nutmeg is a bad idea, and that's why you literally have to choke it down if you're taking

large amounts of it. So people inevitably, general eight teenagers with a webcam end up doing this and just having an awful time because you at the very least you're gonna it's gonna feel nasty going down. Uh, you're gonna and you're gonna feel totally out of sorts for something like forty eight hours. Takes about four hours to set in, and then you're looking at forty eight hours even three days of just feeling weird and awful and zombie like

and sluggish. You might maybe you'll feel a little bit like you're flying, but you'll also have diarrhea. So well, and that's what Wayne Curtis details in his article in Atlantic Magazine. I mean, he says that you know, it took effect on him and for a couple of days it took a while to to shake off and um. He says that it's hallucinogenic properties are likely from the molecules of mistresson and elemison and Mrson is a nutmeg and has a chemical structure that shares similarities with mescaline,

uh amphetamine, and ecstasy. And in the Dictionary of Hallucinations, it says that nutmeg has been ported to mediate visual auditory tactile and Kinney's kin aesthetic hallucinations, notably the sense of floating, as you had already mentioned. So what I think is really interesting is that Curtis actually went to the trouble of trying this to see what sort of

effect it would have on him. And before we discussed that, um, I wanted to point out that people have resorted to using this it looks like in cases where they could not obtain other substances, and I'm talking about in prison, because there are a lot of rumors that, um, you know, people have used it in prisons, uh to to try to get high. And in fact, in Malcolm access biography, he says that a penny match book full of nutmeg

had the kick of three or four reefers. Again, you know, this experience is going to vary from person to person, but largely what people are reporting is that they're not having a mellow high or anything like that. We're again we're talking vomit and diarrhea here. Yeah. I mean it's important that we're talking about prison scenarios because because this is also a scenario where individuals are going to be

kind of desperate for any kind of sensory change. You know, they want a different experience and the thing that they're having every single day, and if the various other forms of stimulation are withheld from them, then they may have no other choice in their view, to tries things like nutmeg. H So in many prisons to this day, it's still it's difficult to find nutmeg in the kitchen because they're just not gonna stock it because somebody's gonna end up

taking it. But again, it's it's just not going to be a pleasant time. Um. There are also stories that jazz musicians, particularly Charlie Parker, reportedly partook of nutmeg. Supposedly, um, I mean supposedly nutmeg wasn't the only thing that Charlie Parker took. But it's just it's again this this is on no one knows for sure. Like I was reading a um on one of our articles we're looking after this,

they were talking about it. It's kind of like a mystery that nobody wants to talk about, like the the jazz musicians the secret of jazz is nutmeg, which I don't buy for a second, you know, Yeah, yeah, um.

I do think it's interesting that it really didn't even become known in the Western world really until I think that's sixties and one of the first people to ferret it out was Dr Andrew Wild, who at the time was submitting his thesis for honors in biology at Harvard University, and he was he he wanted to really make an inquiry into nutmeg as a narcotic and a hallucinogenic and uh, he kind of sort of went through the whole thing.

And it's very interesting, but because before then, again people didn't really think of it as having any sort of

hallucinogenic properties. But you probably know Dr Andrew Wild now is someone who has been at the at the sort of forefront of what you would say integrative medicine is and really looking at these various natural um herbs implants to try to integrate into medicine and get some sort of benefit from Yeah, it's a it's a fascinating paper a young while put together UM and it's also amusing too because there's so many beatnecks in it. He keeps

talking about UM. One one particular that encounter that he mentioned because he mentions talking to this guy and that guy that you know it doesn't use any names, but particularly is interested in in the At one point in the article, he is interested in individuals who normally take marijuana, but when they can't obtain marijuana, then supposedly they turned a nutmeet, which, as we've already illustrated, clearly nutmeg is not equatable with marijuana use. But but he was just

asking around. It's like, is this true? When you can't have marijuana, do you have nutmeg? And there's one Harvard graduate in particular that while talked to who answered him by saying, oh, here, step over here to your spice cabinet. And he opened the spice cabinet and he points at all the various things that he is pretty much everything in here, but msg if you take enough of it, it's going to have some sort of weird effect on your body. Uh, you know if you're palpations. Yeah, yeah,

it could be sentiment, it could be paprika. But if you take enough of anything, and certainly a spice, because the spice is gonna be a very potent substance that it just we don't use in large quantities, but if you consume a large quantity of you're gonna get some sort of reaction, probably not a good one. Yeah. I also like that paper too, because you can see all of as handwritten molecular compounds. I'll have all of his

drawings very quaint. Uh. But yes, so it's I think that kind of gives you an idea of of how again, it's not this uh wonderful high that people are seeking. There's probably a reason why it's not something that is done in drug culture A lot right, not so great. Back to Wing Curtis. In the article, he talks about his nutmeg bender. Let me just read a little bit

of his own experience. He says that, both dubious and intrigued, I grated up a whole nutmeg and part of another, producing about one and a half table spoonful of powder. I swallowed it in one small spoonful at a time, chasing each gulp down with water. Um. He says. Consumed in that quantity, nutmeg loses its fuel to high goodness and tastes like turpentine. Perhaps my dosage was too low

or my nutmeg too desiccated. I did go through an early giddey phase when everything seemed immensely amusing, including the shingles on my neighbor's house, and I felt a slight floating sensation when walking around the neighborhood. But mostly I just felt out of sorts for a couple of days. When I tried to write, my words sometimes became unmoored from my thoughts. Though, to be fair, of this happens

even without the influence of nutmeg. You know, again, not so not so exciting description here, a lot of trouble going through trying to get some sort of high out of that. Yeah, it's not you don't. You don't encounter romantic descriptions of nutmeg us. It's just it's it's only a failure or or a real failure. I mean. And then there have been cases where individuals, um, you know, I've been hospitalized or in some cases possibly died from

using it. The chances of dying from nutmeg poisoning or are pretty slim, but it's it's always it's always possible, and certainly it's also possible to for there to be drug gut interactions as well. So, I mean, everybody's body is different. It depends on you know, what's going on inside you, what other substances you're taking, what your particular health situation is. So I think what we're saying is kids, just keep it on the top of your coffee. You

know what I'm saying, Just a couple of sprinkles will do. Yeah, or apparently, as the Joy of Cooking says, use it sparingly but often so it's probably a good good place

to leave it. But but still, I will admit, even though even though I am I would, I will absolutely never try and choke down a whole bunch of nutmeg in the hopes of stuff weird happening and to me and standing forty eight hours on a toilet, Um, the next time I sprinkled nutmeg on it, I will I will certainly have that in the back of my mind. I'll feel a little cooler using my nutmeg because I'm like, look at me, I'm like a I'm like a Dutch aristocrat. See,

I'll just think about the bathroom thing. My mind will go straight to the gutter. All right, So there you go. Um. That is actually a nice little precursor for a couple of episodes that are coming out. To look for them, we were going to talk more specifically about hallucinogen's shamans all sorts of good stuff, um, in the various ways that we tried to manipulate the mind. All right, Well, on that note, let's call over the robit and look at the listener mail. Here's one from our listener, Marcio.

Marcio writes sentences, Hi, Robert and Julie. I'm a listener from Portugal who, for obvious reasons doesn't observe Thanksgiving, but of course still listen to the Turkey episode. You may recall the part about the origin of the bird's name and how the British called everything Oriental Turkish, including something that was merely traded by Eastern merchants. Interestingly enough, kind of the same thing happened with the Portuguese in the

sixteenth century. Spanish America was properly referred to as Peru. When the Spanish first brought that bird to Europe, we called it Peru, and it's still that name. It still has that name today. At least we got the continent right. Thank you for the cast. I'm a fan. Have fun, Marcia, so that's in it. Certainly that ties in nicely with this episode in which we talked about international trade and

how it affects our understandings of various products. You know, also on the Thanksgiving episode, we we ruminated in that particular episode about the possibility of a killer turkey horror movie and possible. Yes, and lo and behold it exists.

A number of you pointed out that there is a movie by the name of Thanks Killing, Thanks Killing that appears to to star a kind of skexy, light evil turkey puppet that goes around killing people, and it's it's currently the one Netflix streamings, which is which is pretty cool. So yeah, it is out there. You should totally check out the trailer at the very least. It's it's very funny stuff. So there you have it. A little listener mail there. If you would like to write in with

your thoughts on nutmeg, we would love to hear about them. Again, do not actually try and take a bunch of nutmeg and then expect that we're gonna read your thoughts about it on on on the podcast Taking my Head now. Yeah, absolutely not, but we would love I would particularly love to hear any of you who are Dutch or who have had a lot of Dutch cuisine. I'd love to know about the nutmeg in that culinary condition, that kind

of thing. I would love to hear about anything else not related that you may have to share that doesn't involve spooning down that man. If you want to share this kind of thing with us, you can find us on Facebook and tumbler. If we're we are stufforable in your mind on both of those, and you can also find us on Twitter, where our handles blow the mind. And you can always drop us a line at blow the Mind at discovery dot com for more on this

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