Listener Mail: The Face That is Gazed on as it Gazes

Cody says, j plus are, oh boy, so much to say about mirrors, and I'll keep it as brief as I can. Really, you guys could have done a five part series on mirrors and it would have stayed fresh the whole time. Okay, So point number one, you guys mentioned solar de O UNI is the largest natural mirror in the world. But I thought you'd like to know that space based telescope and mapping satellites use that mirror to calibrate their instruments because they can see themselves reflected

in it. I haven't fact checked this, but I believe you, Cody, and that sounds really interesting, So again as a refresher if you don't remember, this was the giant salt flat that will sometimes fill with very still water during the I think during the rainy seasons, is in South America, so it forms this giant reflective surface that is a photographer's stream, and a lot of you'll find a lot of cool pictures of people posing there and standing on what looks like an infinite mirror. But Cody goes on

point number two. I was attending a conference in Rome that was held in an ancient Roman circular building with a large copper bowl recessed into the floor. Above this bowl, there was a hole in the ceiling, and someone associated with the conference said that this had something to do with letting moonlight into the room and reflecting it around. That got me thinking, though that surely someone would have looked down into this bowl while the moon was overhead

would have been shocked to see the moon magnified. Or if not this bowl in particular, somebody somewhere must have accidentally built a crude telescope with a reflective copper bowl and perhaps seen the mountains on the moon long before Thomas Harriet described him in the sixteen hundreds, but no such story exists, or at least I can't find any

evidence this happened. Imagine though, had very ancient people like the Greek's been aware of the worldness of the moon and how different history might have unfolded from then on. That's a really interesting thought, codye. Yeah, absolutely, all right, here's one from Nayla. Nayla writes in and says, Hi, Robert Joan Seth. First off, I'm a huge fan of the show and have been listening for years. I love how you pull from science, history, art, and mythology when

considering a subject. I always look forward to seeing what you will tackle next. I just finished your third episode on mirrors, and I have to write in about my cat. We have four cats. We asked for this, by the way, in case we have four cats, Two of them show no interest in mirrors, but the third has actually learned how to use them. Yeah. I have a full length mirror leaning against a wall, and this cat, Chloe, will use the mirror to stalk another cat from behind the furniture.

The furniture blocks line of sight, so Chloe will watch the other cat in the mirror and then pounce on it in the real world. I can't tell if she recognizes herself, but she does seem to be able to accurately relate the reflection to real life. Wow. I'm almost kind of skeptical of this, but but yeah, I I believe what you say, Nayla, um that it seems. I don't know, it seems different than than the self recognition test, where they would recognize their own body in the mirror.

But it does seem. Uh certainly, I don't know, harder to believe than just seeing their reflection in the mirror and regarding it as another animal. Yeah, either way, it sounds like Chloe as a clever girl. Anyway, she continues, we recently adopted a kitten, and at first she reacted to her reflection as if it was another cat. Now, though, she also seems to understand how it works. Once, when she was facing the mirror, I stood behind her and

held up her favorite toy. When she saw the toy in the mirror, she turned around and ran up to me. Completely anecdotal, of course, but I do think cats are a lot smarter than people give them credit. Thanks for the many hours of learning and entertainment, uh, Nayla. Interesting that this has got my brain burning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not sure what to think about all this, But um, in a way, it does make sense that if a cat was to use a mirror, what would he use

it for? You know, for grooming itself? Now, cats are already great at that, they don't need a mirror's help with that. Would they be able to utilize it to better hunt and to practice their hunting? Well? Maybe so? And I do agree that that cats. I think here, I think it's wrong to dismiss the cats as being you know, stupid. They can certainly do some things that

that humans might be tempted to judge as stupid. But you know, they have a different social situation compared to other animals like dogs and cats, Like they just they live in in different sensory realms. They have different you know, social structures for how they regard each other, so uh

and and different you know, different behaviors. So um, I think by and large, when we when we think about animals in general, we have to be careful about saying like one is, this one's smart, and this one's dumb. Like no, and generally speaking, an animal is as smart as it needs to be to do the things that it excels at. Yeah, they have different kinds of intelligence than we do. Yeah. Are you gonna say a slug isn't smart? I mean, the slug slugs are doing great.

They're they're they're they're killing it out there. The new motto of our show, slugs are Smart. Um. Okay from Jesse. Hey, y'all, I've just finished listening to all three of your episodes on mirrors, and i'd like to see if you'd be interested in talking about a more recent phenomenon, mirror selfies. As more and more people have access to cameras and are able to easily publish photos of themselves, I've also noticed that taking a picture of yourself in a mirror

is still very popular. Is this because it's easy to take a picture this way parentheses? Everyone has a mirror in their bathroom and you don't need a tripod? Or can it also be that taking a picture of yourself in a mirror captures a certain version of you. Thanks for listening and keep up the great work. Jesse. Uh, this is a great question, and I think both of your answers there might have something to do with it. I mean, one thing is that like we were talking

about in the very first Mirror episode. Your image that you have in your brain of yourself is probably based mostly on looking at yourself in a mirror, which is different than the way you look to most people because it's reversed along the horizontal plane. So there's definitely that, But then there's also I think, um, you ever noticed how I feel like this is true for me, but I don't know how true this is for other people.

I feel like I am better at positioning my body and my face in a way that I think looks good in a mirror than I am able to do in a photo, like when I'm posing for a photograph. I guess because I can't see myself when I'm posing for a photograph, and so I guess you could maybe see yourself in the screen of a phone. That's like

reversed into selfie mode. But that's a very small thing you're looking at there, when if you're just looking at your reflection in the mirror, you're getting more information and like a larger picture to base your pose on. Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, I mean there's a lot of real time feedback and exactly how you're posing your body. Yeah, all right. This one comes to us from Alan. Alan says, to tidbits for you to consider number one in mirrors

part when you mentioned covered mirrors. In Jewish tradition, when a person dies and the family is in a period of deep mourning called shiva, mirrors are covered. On a logical level, it could be so that people don't try to spruce up their appearance, but on a mystical level, it could be an avoidance of the deceased in case they are in the mirror. I think, m um. And then Alan also writes, I treat vets with PTSD when we talk to them about their experiences undeployment and how

psychotic that was. We refer to it as stepping through the looking glass, as in Alice in Wonderland, UH, where reality is topsy turvy and psychotic and the real. In their rehabilitation, we try to alleviate the effects of the combat stress and help normalize their lives. The military prepares them with battle mind, whereas we try to teach, for lack of a better way of putting it, civilian mind.

Love the podcast, Alan, So we got this email before the last episode where we were talking more about mirror metaphors, but this is clearly one of the big ones, right, like the idea of stepping across the boundary of the mirror into like a reversed version of yourself off Yeah, yeah, yeah. Through the looking glasses the probably the prime example of that.

And I remember encountering big mirrors as a child and thinking about that, like staring into the mirror and imagining what would happen if you crawled through that mirror and

you were in that world on the other side. Um. And I don't know to what extent it was because of Alice in Wonderland or illustrations of it that I had seen, but but yeah, that definitely went through my mind, And maybe that was what was going through my mind when I managed to pull a large mirror that was hanging on a wall behind a couch off of the wall and break it over my my body when I was something like I don't know two or three years what.

I don't think you told me about this? Oh yeah, well, if it's it's it was long a favorite story and and in my household, I don't really remember it happening, but I remember I remember standing there on the couch with broken mirror all around me and like adults running in. But I was completely unscathed. So in a way, I did go through the looking glass. Did you think you were Do you think you were trying to get through?

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I was just looking in it and I decided to pull on it. But it it's made me very nervous about hanging mirrors my whole life. I just hung a mirror the other day, and you know, as I was like measuring everything twice and second guessing in and warning everybody in the house, now, don't hang on this, even the adults, and you know that my wife is like, I'm not gonna hang on the mirror. You don't have to worry about that. Somehow

this seems very illuminating about you. But yes, I've been through the looking glass. Okay. We got a couple of messages in response to our Vault episode about the tomato, remember those tomato episodes being being some favorites of mine. One yea very juicy one is from Arthur Apparently. I think we were talking about vegetarian substitutes for bacon and a b LT and Arthur says the best non meat substitute for bacon I found for sandwiches and salads is

barbecue flavored potato chips. Scratches the bacon itch. You know that. That's a good idea, Arthur, I have to try that. I do love some some barbecue chips. I mean, I think in the episode we talked about stuff like maybe like roasted eggplant or like roasted mushrooms that can create a very nice meaty flavor. But with those you wouldn't really get a bacony texture. But with barbecue potato chips,

hey that's crispy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And of course they keep up with the Annie on on our on our fake meat world. I mean, just a year later, we have we have some some wonderful options that have just come online. I was just trying out some new field dogs. The other did not field dogs. They were like they're supposed to be like stadium dogs are supposed to taste like a baseball hot dog, but they're baste alternative. Yeah,

it tastes like baseball. They're good, they're good cool. Well, you know what, But the other way, I can't remember if we already said this in the episode. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, But the other way to go. If you don't want bacon is technically for really good sandwich, and you've got good ripe summer tomatoes, you don't even need the lettuce and bacon. You can just have a bacon sandwich just like good bread, mayonnaise and ripe summer

tomatoes is exquisite. Just not just the bacon, just the tomatoes. Did I say bacon, No, just the tomatoes. Yeah, yeah, I think you might have said just the bacon at first. Anyway, I know what you mean. I knew what you mean, just the tomatoes. Tomato stands alone. But if you're really pressed, I would say, also, um, just some some some bread and mayonnaise. Also not bad. I mean it's not the worst. Oh yeah, okay, squeeze little lemon on there. Okay, yeah, I got you, all right. This one comes to us

from Blake. Hi, guys, I'm emailing you to share my thought regarding and potential used for tomatoes with a notable nicotine content. As a smoker who is currently trying to quit and who has tried nicotine replacement means such as vaping and nicotine gum, I think it sounds like one of the healthiest ways to stop smoking. Eating tomatoes in modern ration. Considering recent health issues around vaping and the dental issues around chewing gum, why not load up a

nice juicy tomato with a bit of nick. I really like your show, respectfully, Blake. Oh my Blake, I think you're joking, but please, no one do this. I think what we were talking about was that that somebody had manager claim to have managed to have grafted tomato planned on to tobacco roots or something like that, and they grew tomatoes with substantial nicotine content which could be poisonous.

Do not eat that, seriously, we really don't want anybody to get death by nicotine poisoning, even if it is from the most delicious ripe summer tomatoes. But all that aside, good luck with quitting, Blake. Keep at it all right. I think we should wrap this up with one last message, and this comes to us about Weird House Cinema. On our episode about Soviet Lord of the Rings a k a. Chronatelli or the Keepers. This comes from Pat. Pat says, guys, thanks for giving me a chance to visit a peeve.

On this episode, you repeated the oft held notion that the bomba dial episode and the Fellowship of the Ring does not advance the plot and is understandably left out of other productions. I love those productions, in particular Peter Jackson's This is one great error. Nerds like me have read everything we could. In light of all the books, particularly the Sill Marillion, one cannot deny that Tolkien placed great importance in the religion and mythos of his world.

The Bomba Dill episode is important because of the stress of mythos and religion. The knives given to the Hobbits and the barrow Downs are imbued with animism. A great moment of irony is lost when Mary helps defeat the Witch King using a sword that is wound with the curses of his vanquished. The trilogy is filled with this animism, and it is left out of theatrical productions. Thanks for all the fun. You guys are the best, Pat Rob, I'm sure you have thoughts on this. Um. Yeah, yeah,

I think this makes it. It's a good case. I mean, like like like Pat says, clearly, this is the kind of meat that Tolken shoot on. You know, he didn't he didn't do anything lightly regarding his use of mythology and symbolism and how he he weaved these various uh you know, mythic elements into his work. So uh yeah, it's it's not like, um like, as we're recording this, we just did a weird house cinema episode on on

the Return of the blind debt. You know, in the Return of the blind Ed, you can make an argument for a well, you could probably cut this out and everything would be fine. Uh you know, but with with with Tolkien, Yeah, if you're gonna, if you're gonna surgically remove something, well maybe you didn't think that organ was doing anything, but it was probably in there because it was doing something, at least to a more you know, I guess detail oriented, refined read off the original text.

I mean there's another way of thinking about whether things can be excised from the progress of a plot in a in a novel or a movie, um, which is that anything you take out will leave the final product changed. I mean, every little like moment an episode in the story changes the overall feelings and impression that the that the reader hasn't mean anything in a well written story, unless it's just something that's incredibly repetitive and similar to

what came before and after. So I do think the story is changed by taking out Tom Bombadylan the Barrow Downs. I think what I could acknowledge about it, despite how much I like those those sections of the book, is that you can take those parts out and the story still feels like it makes perfect sense. A person who experiences the story without those parts does not detect that something is missing or does not feel like the story

is incomplete. And yet at the same time, I think it's absolutely true that, yeah, when you take them out, something is lost, but the story can function without them. I think what we need to see, though, is that if Peter Jackson can three films out of The Hobbit, he needs to make one film out of the Barrow Whites and Tom Bomba Dill section stand alone with the Fellowship. Yeah, stand alone. I'm not sure what else he could draw on, but oh, it's gotta be possible. It's gotta be possible.

All the songs. You need to have all the songs. Obviously, Um, did we talk about casting for Bombadill yet? No. I was thinking a little bit of the other day the other day, though, I'm not sure how you do it. How do you who could you possibly cast as Bomba dough. You'd probably have to really draw from like musical theater.

I guess, uh, somebody with a strong like singing, uh sort of um presence, I don't know, but they also need to be peaceful and not menacing like um, I'm thinking of like older actors, like maybe maybe Brian Blessed could could have played this role. But um, I almost said Brian Cox, just because I love Brian Cox, But

that's totally wrong. Brian Cox is far too severe for Tom. Yeah, because you don't want him to be menacing either, right, I mean, it's it's a particular energy that Tom Bomba Dill has to have, and he's also he's got to have some some lungs, he's got to be able to to really built those numbers like basically Acapella mid Forest. So I'm not sure who you would cast. What about Stephen McKinley Henderson, who's playing through Fier Hawat in the

upcoming Dune movie. I feel like he he maybe has the right kind of of sort of supernatural benign presence that you need for Tom Bomba Dill. Yeah. Yeah, maybe so you do kind of I feel like there's some crossover with actors who have effectively played Santa Claus. If you have an effective Santa maybe Bomba Dill. I was I did think I was thinking about I think you should leave, and I was thinking about the skits in season two with the where Santa Claus becomes an actor.

I think Detective crash More. Yeah, I think Santa Claus, the actor from from those skits could potentially play Bomba Dill. Uh. But yeah, I don't know. It's a It's a tough one, Okay. I think we need to wrap it up there. All right, Well, we're gonna go and close the mail bag here for this episode of Listener Mail, but we'll be back next Monday,

so keep them coming. If you have thoughts about current episodes, recent episodes, future episodes of stuff to blow your mind, or the artifact or weird al cinema responses to other listeners emails, all that is a fair game, so right in. We'd love to hear from you. Huge thanks as always

to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would look to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.