Listener Mail: Mirages and More

just something Rachel found on the Internet. And then it's full of music from the nineties, which that is awful. Don't do that. It's like music for ancient mummies. And then it's that goat yea song. Well, you know, it's it's just how it works. You reached that point where you know, all the the hits you remember are the classics, right, Yeah,

everything becomes gs rock eventually. But now I'm loaded up on indigol Arles and and Sonny came home and all that, so so I'm ready to talk about fatim or Ghana. Rob would you like to jump right into the email. Yeah, let's do it. We received a number of listener mails regarding this episode, which was a super fun to put together, and um yeah, it seems to resonate with with everyone. And I guess came out at just the right time because we received a number of different um emails regarding

a new image that has just come out. Yeah, so this was the ship that was cited floating in the air over the horizon off the Cornish coast. A bunch of listeners sent this to us. This may have been This may have been the thing that was like the single largest number of listeners sending the same news article. Yeah, yeah, And I think this story was published maybe the same day as our fatimor Ghana episode or maybe the day after.

I'm not sure, but uh so you can look up pictures of it on the internet if you haven't seen it already, look up like ship floating Cornish coast or something. Uh it should come right up and to read from the BBC news report about it. This is an unsigned article of course, so I can't tell you the author, but images of what appears to be a hovering ship have been captured as a result of a rare optical illusion off the coast of England. David Morris took a

photo of the ship near Falmouth, Cornwall. BBC meteorologist David Brain said the superior mirage occurred because of special atmospheric conditions that bend light. He said the illusion is common in the Arctic that can appear very rarely in the UK during winter. Mr Morris said he was stunned after capturing the picture while looking out to see from the

hamlet of Gillen. Mr Brain said quote Superior mirages occur because of the weather condition known as temperature inversion, where cold air lies close to the sea and warmer air above it. Since cold air is denser than warm air, it bends light towards the eyes of someone standing on the ground or on the coast, changing how a distant object appears. Superior mirages can produce a few different types

of images. Here a distant ship appears to float high above its actual position, but sometimes an object below the horizon can become visible. And yeah, it is a really striking image. I will say it has, at least in this photo, it has greater clarity than most superior mirages. Usually somehow they look a little bit more I don't know, faded or ethereal, lending themselves well to spectral interpretations. This one looks quite straightforward. It just looks like a ship

in the air. Yeah, and it really Yeah, it's one of these where it's not a situation in which you would look at this and be like, I guess it kind of looks like a ship floating above the horizon. Now it's it's it's it's very confusing to look at if you don't know what you're seeing here. So yeah, great serendipity. We did not know this, this photo would be published here, this article would be coming out around the time of the episode, so so yeah, it was

a nice surprise. Thanks for everybody who send it our way. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm not sure I would have necessarily caught it otherwise. Um, let's see what else do we have, And we have more listener mail regarding the photomorgana. Uh. This one comes to us from Chris, Hi, Robert and Joe. Just finished listening to your excellent episode on Potomorgana. And I was not familiar with this term, but I did know what a mirage was and have been lucky enough to see

a few during travels in the Southwest United States. The example that I am sharing is from the area of country that I live in. This was an excellent story at quite a breathtaking photo of Chicago taken from the shores of Michigan. Here is a link to the news story about it, and I checked this out. Chris attaches a link to an article by Tom Coombs explaining the mirage or case of looming. I'm not sure quite which

one it is. It's one or the other that is apparently explaining this photograph of the skyline of Chicago that could be seen from the opposite shore of the Great Lake. And yeah, if you look at it, it is it is quite a beautiful picture. It's got some eighties mall colors, kind of Miami vice and the pink and blue hues, but it is quite beautiful. Yeah. It looks like he could be a you know, cover image for a vapor

wave album for sure. That's what I was thinking. Yes, um, yeah, And it has the appearance of like a city in the clouds, or or a city so just so towering that it's somehow visible above the horizon. It's it's interesting anyway that the listening mail continues as the article states, it's impossible to see Chicago from that far away, some fifty seven miles, but with a mirage it looks significantly closer.

Oh and with that being said, it could be very easy to see how travelers through the ages have imagined things being much closer than the actually word due to this phenomenon. Keep up the great work, and as always, thanks for continuing to blow our minds. Chris. Yeah, thanks Chris.

So Yes. I was reading this article and it seems to me that basically, depending on the elevation at which you're standing, it maybe sometimes should be possible to see the tops of the very tallest buildings in the Chicago skyline from across the lake, just given the normal geometry

the curvature of the earth. But you definitely shouldn't be able to see down to where it looks like you can see in this photo, which is it looks like you can see the city all the way down to the ground level, not just like the peak of the

Sears Tower and the other tallest buildings. Um. And so, one of the funny things I was reading in this article is that apparently, according to this guy Tom Coombs, uh, some flat earth people were using the photo as evidence that well, look, the Chicago skyline is visible on the opposite side of the lake in this photo, proof that the Earth is actually flat. And that just made me think, if people are actually saying that, what do they think about like the millions of other photos where you can't

see it, Like, what's going on there? I think you're you're already putting way too much thought, more thought than they put into um saying ah, here it is proof of of the Earth's flatness. Uh so very weirdly. This next message also will touch on something that's sort of peripheral to, uh to some of the bizarre flat Earth beliefs. Rob, do you ever come across this claim? Apparently some flat earthers, you know, you ask the question, well, okay, what happens

if you get to the edge of the disc? They believe the Earth is some kind of flat disc, or at least claim to believe that. It's hard to tell with a lot of them, like whether they genuinely believe this or whether they're just sort of like saying it for fun. Um, Yes, yes, I know where you're going.

This is the idea that at the edge of the disc you will encounter vast ice walls that keep you from falling off the Earth, and I guess maybe they keep the oceans from flowing off and landing on the turtle. I guess so. Um yeah, So the ice walls are a common feature of the flat earth mythology, so just keep that in mind. That will come up again in

this next message from Dempsey. Oh and this one is about both the Fata Morgana episode and the previous episodes that we talked about with halos and optical phenomena like the sun dogs and things like that. So Dempsey says, Hey, guys, I'm a long time slash first time fan. I'm a physics grad student at u A. Fairbanks that studies crazy fluids. In truth, I study the turbulence in Tokomax, a type

of nuclear fusion reactor. Along this path was an incredibly interesting class on geophysical fluid dynamics or g f D, the study of planetary scale fluids meaning atmosphere and oceans, their interactions that occur at given boundaries, and many other interesting things. In the class, we learned the finest inner workings of several optical illusions that one could see, especially ones from the cold. Being a huge fan of sustainable living,

I bike ski or walk to school every day. On top of finally catching up on all of stuff to blow your mind and seeing all of the aurora in commute. This has grown my optical illusion checklist better. Yet, the sleep deprived ramble of a first year grad student from science building the cabin has also led to the occasional false paranormal sighting. Oh, Dempsey, you know how to grab

our attention? Um, so yeah, so Dempsey goes on. The first sighting occurred the winter before taking g f D. Remember that's geophysical fluid dynamics, and I had absolutely no idea it was a possibility. Skiing home late one cloudy night after grading, it was perfectly calm with no wind, and it was a bitter cold, better than thirty degrees fahrenheit below. This commute was also along a hiking path in the woods that allowed for almost no light pollution.

I stopped in a clearing to catch my breath. When looking in the distance towards home, four or five beams of light connecting the forest to the clouds appeared. These columns of white light were huge, laser like beams that were stable and did not flicker. Beams were so powerful and caught me so unaware that it was all I could do to avoid the fight or flight panic, to

get lost and hide in the forest aliens. Later in GFD, I learned in that kind of cold, when ice precipitates from the clouds humidity, it can form a crystal so small it can't be seen. This crystal based structure is most likely to form in a flat paper like sheet. When these sheets of crystal float to the ground like a falling leaf, they act like either a lens or

a mirror, depending on the way that the light strikes it. Ultimately, the combination of the street lights that were already on and the temperature dropping to a given sweet spot for the humidity and pressure that day led to false UFO beams that got a rise out of me. Wow, that that is amazing. I have never heard of that before. Dempsey goes on the sun dogs are my favorite illusion. It turns out there essentially a glorified cold weather rainbow.

When white light from the sun like some small round thing, like a tiny ice crystal, it is deflected along a cone from the point to possibly your eye. This is why rainbows are always the same shape arc I'm a little confused on this next sentence, I Dempsey says, when we see them get brighter, not grow and extend. Not quite sure about that, but there may be a type of there. Uh. This is also why the halo around

the moon has a specific fixed angular size. The same behavior leads to sundogs in the polar regions of the world at the polls during the winter when the temperature is right to make small ray Leigh scatterers. The sun

is low near the horizon. If present when the conditions are perfect, this can actually result in a ring of rainbow around the Sun. During these conditions, it is possible to have as many as four additional suns at the vertices of pie divided by two pie, three pie divided by two and two pie surrounding the Sun. As you guys know, this can also lead to false UFO encounters, not in my case, though I got the burning bush experience earlier. This semester. We had a negative ten degree

fahrenheit snow day. On this commute, I admired the beauty of this impossibly fine stacked dust in the trees. I had been walking up to a crested ridge to suddenly see a lone birch in a clearing engulfed in the brightest red flame I had ever seen. It was only after changing my position by several meters that it was easy to tell that it was only a chance alignment with a sun dog in the early morning sun. Unfortunately, it was too cold and my phone died before I

could get the picture. So here is one from later on without the snow. That should be a good starting point for a mental image. And uh and Dempsey attaches an image of like a thicket of trees with the sun shining from right behind them. That does make it kind of look like the trees on fire. Now here, we're coming back to the ice wall. I think I'm riding after the morning walk listening to the episode on Fatim Morgana. I may not have been listening closely enough.

I may have been staring at it too intently. But did you guys mention the ice wall that sometimes results from Fairbanks? Looking south, one can see the Alaska slash Dnnali range miles away, with many small valleys and ridges between the Fata Morgana seems to result in a in a hundreds of foot high ice wall visible hundreds of miles away. Here's a picture, and then there is a picture for us to look at that that does look extremely strange. Yeah, it's it's quite impressive. It does look

like some sort of Titanic ice wall. I don't know if it has ever had religious significance, but I imagine it's influenced ideas in literature like Game of Thrones and in conspiracy theories like the Flat Earth. One last illusion to look for occurs when the sun crosses a sharp boundary, giving the quote green flash from Lots of Lore. I don't remember if this came up in Fatim Moor, Ghana, but it is yeah, related phenomena often observed by sailors.

Dempsey goes on, this is much harder to see because it is literally a flash of green light that you can see when staring at the sun at the exact right moment the sun goes below the ocean pirates of the Caribbean style or dips behind the peak of a huge mountain range Alaska style. Hopefully this was interesting or at least a little bit funny. Always looking forward to our next walk, Dempsey, Yeah, I love all these of

these images. This was I was hoping, you know, that people would send in photographs and yeah, that they that they've provided a number of them here. Yeah, and really appreciate the interpretive context as well. I had never heard of that idea before about um light being reflected against or through these like sheet like crystal svice. I'm gonna have to look that up, all right. Here's another one. This one comes to us from m R and it is a response to our Halo episodes. Hi, Joe and Robert.

I was introduced to your podcast by my husband, who has been listening for many years now. I hope this doesn't sound too weird, but we listened to the show every night to fall asleep. I will say that is not that is not weird. We've been I think we heard of heard from people like this for for years and uh and you know, we're we're happy to help

you drift off into a pleasant slumber. And we do apologize for the rare occurrences where some sort of loud noise at the end of the episode disturbs that anyway, they continue. We're the type of people who like to have background noise. I'm like that as well. After the first night that my husband suggested stuff to blow your mind, it became our permanent routine. Yeah, the quick aside, Joe, This reminds me when I was when I was a kid,

or maybe in junior high. I remember going to the bookstore and I was purchasing a Dune book and the teller there was very excited and she told me how she and her husband put David Lynch's Dune on every night to go to sleep too. Yeah, so I was. I remember being really impressed with that. That that because like, wow, that maybe this that is what adult life is like.

I don't know. You know, there are many things about that movie that are dream like, beyond their their dream like in ways that are not suggested by the original book. They're they're very particularly Lynch. And one example is the recurring pug. You know, the pug of House of Tradees. Do you remember this? I do remember the pug that is such a David Lynch detailed the book, I'm quite sure, makes no mention of a pug, and yet in many

scenes in the movie there's just a pug. There's one scene where I believe Patrick Stewart is leading a bunch of troops charging into battle against the soldiers of House Harconin and he's holding the pug in his arms. Well, you know, it's a regal dog. It's it's it's befitting of a noble house. Yeah, but anyway, that is that's not Mr. Uh, that's not their story. This is a

story from you know, from when I was younger. Anyway, Mr continues, I've always wanted to write in but I never had much to contribute until you mentioned synthesia as a synisthet myself, what I listened to for relaxation depends heavily on the colors and textures I gather from people's voices. Luckily, both of you have very calming colors. Joe's voice is a dusty, icy purple that moves in symmetrical liquid like waves. It has a slight, silvery glitter effect as well. Robert's

voice actually has two colors. It's mostly a reddish maroon, but it's supplemented by an occasional splash of pastel orange. The texture feels pointed or spiky, but the tips of these spikes are rounded and smooth, kind of conical. Both of your voices are very cool toned, which is great for relaxation and sleep in my case. Your individual colors also complement each other quite well, sometimes separate voices speaking together can have colors that clash, which is not as

conducive for sleep. WHOA though, well, this is the first time I've ever had somebody described me in terms of synesthesia. I guess this would not be person color synesthesia. This would be like auditory, like just the sounds of the voices. Yeah, but but I like this. I'm already reading more into it, like you know, like my own relationship with the color orange. And so for anyway, they continue. But where I met my husband, I watched videos that triggered a s MR

tinkling sensation in order to fall asleep. I think a s MR could be an interesting topic for a future episode. Thanks for being a part of my nightly routine. MR. Well, thank you, m R. I will say, I do not think we have ever gotten a message like this before. Yeah, I know this is insightful. I mean, like like we've said with with synesesia, it's it's it's not universally insightful, like the pastel orange is not universally my color for everyone.

But it's interesting that that's how it is received with one individual. But can you tell me the colors of the pug It's white and brown or it's black. That's those are my guests. I think those are the two colors they come in, right, Yeah, I guess so in my experience. Anyway, maybe there are other colors of the of the pug. I can't remember the color of the pug of House of Tradees. I think it's maybe sort of sort of a beige dog. Yeah, all right, here's

another one. This one comes to us from Anna. Hello, Robert and Joe. I've just listened to your second episode on Halos and you asked for any examples of halos and horror sci fi movies. Well, I just happened to watch an episode of Doctor Who called Voyage of the Damned. This is a long episode and features robot angels called the Host. At the start, uh, they are merely robots to give out information, but then there is a point

where they turn evil. They take off their halos above their head and use them as deadly weapons to throw at people. This is definitely worth a watch. It was on recently here in Australia a repeat. I only meant to watch a little bit of it, but David Tennant is so charming I watched the whole thing. It has a lot of lovely elements to it. There's a scene at a cocktail party where Doctor Who is a bit like James Bond chatting up a pretty girl, except that he is interested in her as a person and she

just happens to be Uh, who's this Kylie Minogue? Kylie Minogue? Well? Where should I know? Kylie Minogue from Kylie Minogue is as a musician? Oh, just helped us out. I was thinking of the music video of hers, directed by Michelle Gondry's which is an interesting video. And but also I just looked her up and apparently she portrayed Cammy in

The Street Fighter movie. That should make it worthwhile for you. Right, well, yeah, we're talking about the one um the street Fighter movie, right, the one yes with all Julia Yes, yeah, yeah, okay, all right, excellent. I mean, just more more reason for us to uh to to to rewatch that film. Yeah. But so apparently she's in a she's in a Doctor Who episode. I did not know that. Okay, anyway, they

continue Also it has alien culture trying to explain Christmas. Uh. They so so called expert on Earth cultures says things like, uh, like there is a figure called Santa who has clause and will punish you if you are bad and it Christmas. Humans will eat people from Turkey. Anyway, keep up the excellent work, Anna. So, I guess it's kind of like that that exercise we often talk about, like how would aliens try to describe or understand human culture? So it

sounds like there was an exercise in in that. I'm very tickled by the idea of James Bond, except he's interested in her as a person. Yeah, yeah, Bond. Bond generally comes off as something of a creep, doesn't he hum? But he's our creep, is he? I think he's British. Oh that's true. Well he's he's on our side of something. He's against the people who want to kill the whole world. Yeah, well that's true. Yeah, he ultimately does good work. All right,

you ready to talk some weird house, let's do it. Okay? This first message, actually, we're gonna look at a couple of messages about Split Second, and both of them have to do with the question we brought up in Split Second, the question of why is it that that the tough guys in the movie you want to make somebody look like a really bad to the bone dude, you give them a long coat? Where does that come from? So here? Uh? Thomas gets in touch with us about split Second to say, Hi,

Robin Joe, I really enjoy your podcast. The broad coverage both between and within the episodes makes it really enjoyable. In your Weird House Cinema episode about Split Second, you wonder about the origin of the long code in movies. That got me thinking about when it is used. It's usually by a lone ranger type of hero or by outlaw types of villains, often combined with motorcycles, a modern take on the wild West aesthetics Western movies seem to

me to be the origin of the coats. But are they a modern idea or were they used by real cowboys? I turned to the Internet for an answer and quickly found the duster, a long travel coat worn by cowboys in order to protect their clothes from rain and trail dust.

This is only me speculating, but these long coats and the way they flowed in the wind were probably found to work really well on the silver screen and made a part of the dress code for the cinematic wild West, while also being somewhat historically correct, earning itself a permanent place in the cinematic wardrobe kind regards to Moss, and I will say, yeah, I think there is probably something

to that. There could be other traditions feeding into it as well, but it does seem to me that a lot of the aesthetic elements of what makes a like a tough guy or you know, bad to the bone dude in modern cinema are very much derived from the genre conventions that you first see that you first seeing westerns, like bikers being sort of reimagined cowboys and so forth. Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, It's one of those things where when we we kind of stumbled onto the question in

the episode, we didn't really have an answer. But now that I'm reminded of Westerns, like, I feel like this has to be the has to be the answer, or at least a primary part of the answer, because I'm also reminded of just how just how many cowboy films they were, and how much of of like the cinematic and TV output for a while was just Westerns. And you you you hear various filmmakers that we think of for their like sci fi, uh and and or fantasy,

but ginerally like sci fi and horror output. And a lot of those those directors they grew up watching these westerns, and they're very they're very open about the influence of Westerns on their own films. Like John Carpenter is someone who's who has touched on this before, you know, especially I think even talking about his early films as essentially being uh, you know, remakes of westerns. You know, they're basically westerns, but they they've taken on this this this

altered style. I mean, you can also apply that to Star Wars and you know, so many things that we you know, we don't think of as being really connected to cowboys, but but the cowboy DNA is there. Yeah. I think in a lot of ways, Han Solo is probably sort of the Man with No Name, except made a little bit like funnier and more approachable. Uh And and you can even see it in some that are just direct adaptations, like what is it? Was it that Sean Connery movie Outland that's just high noon in space?

Oh yeah, and it works like but but a big part of it was like this was this was everybody's diet beforehand, and then you know, you're living increasingly in the space age, and people weren't influenced by all this sci fi literature as well. And yeah, so your westerns stay structurally more or less the same, but they take

on this this new vibe. Yeah, and I think especially especially in the way that traditional ideas about like toughness and masculinity are reproduced across film in the era, So like it's often going to be like a like a tough, cool male character. They're trying to like show him as a bad dude, And so they're trying to make you think back to things that are in your head from the Western movies of old, and that long coat is

going to be one of them. Yeah. But then again, on the you know, it goes without saying, you also have an awful gangster movies and stuff. So you know, Dick Tracy wore a long coat bright yellow, but a long coat nonetheless, and the Shadow wore a long coat, so uh yeah, there's there's probably a bit of that in there as well. So you have the cowboy DNA, you have the noir DNA, and it all kind of feeds into your new visions of science fiction. So the cowboy wears the long coat to keep the dust off.

The noir hero wears the long coat what. I guess to keep the rain out right because they lived in some kind of like rainy nasty or maybe I don't know, maybe just because it's the style of the era. Yeah, all right, here's another one. This one comes to from Jerry, Joe and Robert. I just finished your episode on Split Second. In that episode, you had a question about when the long coat, like the one Neo Warre and Matrix, became

a thing. While it was certainly something that was already popular as part of the sci fi aesthetic by the end of the eighties, compare with the protagonist of Albert Puns Nemesis, which came out the same year. A Split Second would love an episode on this great slash awful film. I susp act its origin as a badass protact protagonist fashion comes from eastwoods Man with no name character. There's a great scene in the film Wrestler's Rhapsody that pokes

fun at this, and they include a link. I clicked on this and this is funny. It's got a This appears to be some kind of Western parody movie. I've never seen it before, but the clip is funny because it takes place on a train and it's this one train car where these two rich you know, ranch owners are debating. They've got some kind of rivalry, and each one just has this army of looming cowboy dude standing behind them. And on one side they're all wearing chaps,

and on the other side they're all wearing dusters. Andy Griffith's in this. It looks like, yeah, he's one of the he's one of the like rancher dudes. Okay, well, I don't think I was familiar with this film. It looks funny. Now. Nemesis, which they mentioned, Uh here that is that is already on my my list. I haven't watched it yet, but I remember seeing the box art when I was younger, and it's now that i've I've spotted an Amazon Prime It's it's on my list of

things to watch. At some point. I hear great things about it, like it's supposed to be ultimately a lower budget film that has some some some definite sci fi aspirations. Uh, it's supposed to be supposed to be worth watching, so I'm excited for it. Oh. Albert Paiune has made a number of quite funny B movies that I've really enjoyed. He made the Captain America, not the not the like new you know, high budget Marvel one like the well I guess it was always Marvel maybe, but the Captain

America that came out in the year nineteen. Oh. Yes, this was the one with Ronnie Cox Allinger kid in it and Ronnie Cox yeah, and Ned Beatty. This movie

is I remember there's one part in it. Maybe maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but the part that stands out in my head is that Captain America has been frozen in ice, I think, for for many decades and wakes up in the nineties and as soon as he wakes up, just like the bad guys, wounds are there with motorcycles like to ambush him and I don't know what they're just immediately there. But as possible, my memory is not being fair to it. But I recall this one being

uh bad but enjoyable. And he also made Cyborg, which is another cloud Van Damn movie, uh that I that I recall fondly watching with my dad, and there's like a great there's a great villain character in it who is called a pirate, but he doesn't have a ship. They're just like land pirates. Yeah, I'm glancing. It is his full filmography here, and yeah, there's a lot of stuff in here that looks it looks really cool if

I recall correctly. The plot of Cyborg is that there is a cyborg who must get to the c d C command center in Atlanta because this because she has in her robot brain a cure for the disease that has ravaged Earth, and they can come up with a vaccine for it, I guess. And the pirates stop her along the way and she said, as I can cure all this death and disease, and the lead pirates says,

but I like the Death and Disease. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I've ever watched it in its entirety, but I've been familiar with it by reputation for a while. But the whole thing with the CDC, that's essentially the same thing they did in um, The Walking Dead. Right, Well, I don't know. I I never made it past the second episode of The Walking Dead. People say it's good. I mean, someday, maybe I'll get there. I remember thinking I really liked the first episode. I really hated the

second episode, and then I never saw anymore. Yeah, I don't think any of Cyborg was filmed in Georgia, but glancing at the filming locations, they weirdly enough, seems like they filmed it in North Carolina and Arizona. So yeah, with a little bit of California thrown in there for good measure. Wikipedia tells me that Cyborg is the first in Paiune's Cyborg trilogy. Oh yeah, so there's Cyborg two and Cyborg three. I'm getting there. Yeah, there's gonna be

so much more because they're Cyborgs in Nemesis as well. Right, that's that's my understand Probably I'm not familiar with Nemesis. Actually, yeah, Nemesis is supposed to be like a like a a cyberpunk adventure with you know, killer cyborgs and so forth, big guns, that sort of thing. Oh wow, it's got Brian James, it's got uh carry here are Yuki Tagawa. Yeah yeah, it's good. That's got a good cast, Thomas Jane. So okay, I'll watch it. I'm on. I'm on the

hook for Nemesis now. All right, Well, I guess that's about it. That's all we have time for. You know, we received a lot of other listener mails related to these topics. And you know we'll read some more of them next time. But keep it coming, keep responding to episodes, older episodes, newer episodes, uh core episodes of the show, artifact, weird,

how cinema, whatever the case may be. Just reach out to us, and you know, we don't have time to read everything on the show, but we we read everything that comes in, at least to ourselves. In the meantime, if you want to check out other episodes of Stuff to Boil your Mind, you can find us in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed and you'll find that wherever you get your podcasts. Huge thanks as always

to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, just to say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.