Listener Mail: A Bird of Courage

you want to send us fine. We appreciate feedback to recent episodes, especially if you have something interesting to add

to something we have talked about. Okay, I'm going to start off today with a response to an older series of episodes we did on throwing behavior in non human animals, and one of the big examples we talked about in that series was a paper about octopuses doing something that looked like deliberate targeted throwing of inanimate objects like shells and clumps of sediment at each other and I think occasionally at fish, but mostly at each other for getting

in one another's personal space and I do recall there was some ambiguity about whether that was the right interpretation of the behavior or not. Was it actually targeted throwing or just something that kind of looked that way because they were kicking up dust or sediment for some other reason. And continuing the theme of octopuses and animal throwing, Nathan writes, Hi, Robert, Joe and Carney a shout out to the mailbot. I just finished listening to your episodes on animals throwing things

when I saw an interesting article on the CBC. There had been video caught of a sea lion and octopus fighting off the cost of Nanaimo, British Columbia, which is definitely not typical octopus stomping grounds. In the video, the sea lion picks up the octopus and throws it across the surface of the water with surprising force at least twice.

In the article, Andrew Trites, director of the Marine Mammal Research Unit at the University of British Columbia, says that sea lions will bite down hard on one tentacle, then fling the octopus in an effort to tear the arm off. This is apparently the safest way for them to pray on octopus, as otherwise the octopus can suffocate the sea lion with its many tentacles. Thanks for all your great work, and though behind currently, my wife Olivia and I never

miss an episode. Thanks Nathan. Well, Nathan, thank you for sending this in. So I went and looked up the CBC article you referenced. It's from November seventeenth, twenty twenty three by Andrew Kurjada. If you want to look this up, folks, it is called Swimmer witnesses Surprise Fight between between octopus and Sea Lion, and the video is attached with the article.

The video is pretty cool, so you can see this marine mammal repeatedly breaching the water's surface, seeming to kind of gasp and struggle at something, and then a couple of times it does suddenly whip its head around and fling something from its jaws, and it looks to me like immediately after it does that, especially in at least one instance, but maybe in a couple of them, the sea lion is working its jaws, maybe like it's chewing

on something. And according to this researcher that Nathan mentioned, Andrew Tritz, who is the marine biologist quoted in the article the sea lion in the video was a stellar sea lion, and that's a species name spelled ste ll e Er, one of the two species found in these waters, along with the California sea lion. I'll read a direct quote from Trites explaining this behavior in the article quote.

The challenge for a sea lion is to swallow an octopus without the octopus using it eight arms to grab onto the sea lion's head while it is being swallowed whole, the sea lion would suffocate. The sea lion's solution is to bite down onto one arm at a time and fling the octopus's body with all its force to rip off an arm to swallow hole. They do it at the surface because they can get more torque in the

air than they can underwater. I missed that detail about I'm swallowing the octopus armhole, so maybe it's not chewing. I don't know. The jaw working could be something else, but anyway, this would explain why the sea lion was poking its head up above the water to do this. That is trying to get more torque when it flings its you know, whips its neck around to throw the

octopus and try to rip the arm off. Another consideration mentioned in the CBC article is that the octopus not only threatens to suffocate the sea lion that is preying on it, it can also wrap itself around a predatory mammal's head like a sort of kill monster mask and bite with its beak. Also worth considering that octopuses are venomous, So yeah, it makes sense that the sea lion is really eager to get the octopus away from its face,

even while trying to eat part of the octopus's body. Now, this behavior brings me back to an issue we talked about in that series on animal throwing behavior, which was the cognitive distinction between throwing behavior that seems to be for the purpose of affecting the projectile versus throwing that's

designed to affect the target. So, for example, throwing a nut against a rock to crack the nut versus throwing a rock at a target animal to make it, I don't know, leave you to hurt the animal, or to make it go away and leave you alone. There is implicitly different cognition involved. In one case, you already have the object you want to affect in your possession, and you throw it in order to change something about it, maybe to damage it, or just to get it away

from you to change its location. In the other case, the target you want to influence is at a distance from your body, and the projectile is a third party tool you're using to cause that effect at distance. In this case, I think it's pretty clear that the throwing is to affect the projectile, not a target, and it's in two ways. The goal is number one, to rip part of the octopus's body off so that it can be eaten, but then also just to get the other arms and the beak away from the sea lion's face.

So anyway, many thanks, Nathan Okay onto another message leading to some interesting facts about animal behavior. So Troy wrote to us in response to a previous listener mail after our Weird House Cinema episode on Critters. Critters is a mainline Gromlin's movie series about little monster hedgehogs from space

that love to eat. The movie we covered was the original film from nineteen eighty six, but a previous listener brought up the fact that in the sequel from nineteen eighty eight, which is Critters to the main course, the crits at one point glom onto one another to form a gigantic ball that rolls around, smashing people and generating mayhem. And the question came up whether there are real world examples of animals that agglomerate together to serve a collective

destructive purpose like this? Are there animals that will form giant balls out of their bodies? And the answer is yes. The one answer I could think of on the spot when we read this first male was the bivouac formed by colonies of army ants. I think driver ants too. The bivouac is essentially a mobile protective nest made by the ants out of their own bodies, by ants out

of ants, living ants. So the colony will form this kind of cyclopean mass made out of hundreds of thousands of worker ants that gather around the queen and her larvae to protect them when the foraging column comes to rest.

And of course they have to do this because they can't form a permanent nest structure, say like with tunnels in the ground or a mound like some other types of ants or usocial insects, because the colony it forges so much that it always has to keep moving to find new feeding sources, so they have to take their nest with them. So the nest is made out of

the colony, out of the ant's own bodies. So the worker ants grip each other's legs to form this cohesive structure around the queen for the resting period, and then when it's time to move again, the bivouac dissolves and the ants go on their way. Now, Troy writes to us with another example of stunningly weird agglomeration behavior in animals, and it might not be a surprise that it's also

from the order of Hymenoptera. So he brings up the behavior known as bee bawling or sometimes heat balling in honeybees. This is a really interesting defensive strategy that has been documented in the Asian honeybee. I was reading about it in paper specifically on the Japanese honeybee, which is APIs serana japonica, and it works to protect the bees colonies against attacks by predatory hornets such as the Asian giant hornet Vespa mandarinia. And it seems like this is actually

a pretty complex interspecies relationship. Just one example. I was reading about that there is some evidence of information exchange between bees and hornets that can sometimes avert failed predation attempts that would be costly for both parties. So maybe bees can do behaviors that let the hornets know that the bees see the hornets and thus are preparing their defenses, and thus the hornets can just avoid attacking them in the first place because probably won't be successful and it

will just hurt both sides. But if a hornet does decide to attack a hive of Asian honeybees, the main lethal defensive strategy available to the bees is to surround the hornet in a tight cluster and then violently vibrate their flight muscles. So this tight ball of vibrating bees quickly increases in temperature. It gets hot, and the structure of the beat of the bee ball traps the heat, and it also traps carbon dioxide inside. And this combination of heat and CO two density kills the hornet but

allows most of the bees to survive. And interestingly, though, of course Japanese honeybees can sting, I've read that they rarely use their stingers against predatory hornets. The ball is all you need. Also, I just wanted to mention while I was reading about this, I came across a related fact concerning another defensive strategy used by Asian honeybee colonies against hornet attacks. And this was in a paper by Matila at All published in Plus one in twenty twenty.

The paper is called honeybees APIs serrana use animal feces as a tool to defend colonies against group attack by giant hornets Vespas sorore And yeah, so you heard it there in the title. This paper documented Asian honeybees responding to threats from predatory hornets by foraging for animal feces such as water buffalo dung, bringing that animal dung back to the hive, and smearing it around the entrance to

the hive. To read from the abstract here quote Fecal spotting increased after colonies were exposed, either to naturally occurring attacks or to chemicals that scout hornets use to target colonies for mass attack. Spotting continued for days after attack ceased, and occurred in response to Vesper sorore, which frequently landed at and chewed on entrances to breach nests, but not Vespa velutina, a smaller hornet that rarely landed at entrances.

Moderate to heavy fecal spotting suppressed attempts by vsrore to penetrate nests by lowering the incidents of multiple hornet attacks and substantially reducing the likelihood of them approaching and chewing on entrances. We argue that APIs Serrana forages for animal feces because it has properties that repel this deadly predator from nest entrances, providing the first report of tool use by honeybees and the first evidence that they forage for

solids that are not derived from plants. So what are these properties of animal dung that would work to keep the hornets away? The authors say they do not know yet. Also, just to note that if you dig into the paper, they do qualify the claim that this is the first documentation of tool use in honey because as usual with studies about tool use in animals, there is disagreement about what the criteria are, and there have been other observations that could qualify as tool use and bees depending on

your criteria. All right, this next message comes from Chuck and it is a response to our series of episodes on the invention of the crossbow. Specifically, this is Chuck from San Diego. Chuck from San Diego says Dear Robert, Joe and JJ, thanks again for your interesting, thoughtful, and informative content. I think, like many of your listeners, I don't normally have a reason in my daily life to ponder many of the topics you discuss in depth, but

I'm glad you do it for me. Often your discussion reminds me to consider topics in new ways or simply unlock cherished memories. That's a long winded way of saying, you guys enrich my life. Case in point crossbows. Oh, thank you, Chuck. That means a lot about crossbows. Chuck says, I personally found the discussion of crossbows as a quote evil weapon fascinating, considering two formative memories that I have that counter that notion. The first is from the nineteen

eighty movie Hawk the Slayer. This sword and sorcery film, a good selection for weird house cinema, actually stars Jack Palance as the evil Voltan and John Terry as the titular Hawk. Hawk must gather a ragtag band of heroes to defeat Voltan and restore order and goodness to the Land. The film is not good, but it does have its moments,

especially in some of the character and action choices. One of the heroes, played by William Morgan Shepherd is Ranulf, who loses a hand and replaces it with a repeating crossbow fed by a clip of bolts with an insane rate of fire. To eight year old me watching it for the first time in nineteen eighty, this was the coolest weapon ever. Of course, because of Ranulf, repeat eating crossbows ended up in later D and D campaigns. I

guess Chuck means his own D and D campaigns. I'm not sure, or Chuck, do you mean that this like inspired the creators of the D and D players guides to well, I don't know, yeah, right in clarify if you want, Chuck goes on. The second memory is from the nineteen eighty three Atari Arcade light gun game Crossbow. This cabinet had a near life sized version of a crossbow that players had to use to defend their adventuring allies as they slowly moved from left to right across

hazard filled screens. Eventually, the players had to find and shoot the Master of Darkness to win the game, as your life meter, your adventuring allies on screen were essentially useless think endless escort quest. So it was up to only you and your trusty crossbow to save the land from darkness. Thanks again for all you do, and my very best wishes to you and your families this holiday season, Sincerely, Chuck from San Diego. Well, thank you so much, Chuck,

and saying back to you and yours. So I have never seen Hawk the Slayer, but I just looked up the poster before recording here, and I guess this is supposed to be John Terry as Hawk here, but it's just Han Solo. The costume is exactly the same, folks. Look this up Hawk the Slayer. Am I wrong? There's like the deep v neck off white shirt with the long sleeves, black vest, dark pants, tall boots. So yeah, it's just Han Solo from the first Star Wars movie.

And I looked up shots from the actual movie of Hawk the Slayer and his costume's a little different on screen, but that poster is Come on, shameless dudes. Also, Jack Palance as the villain has an interesting costume feature. He wears a metal helmet that only reveals one eye. The other eye gap in the helmet is covered with a steel plate, so I guess it's taking the villain with an eye patch principle to the next level. All right, next message is about Weird House Cinema. This is from Steph.

Steph says, hello, gentlemen. I listened to your Weird House Cinema episode on the Butterfly Murders and, as always, really enjoyed it and wished I could see the movie myself. After hearing how rare a copy of this movie was, I pretty much gave up hope for ever seeing it and relegated myself to checking out the trailer on YouTube. I fired up my laptop and found the trailer easily,

but as often happens, things got busy. Dinner had to be made and cleaned up, homework had to be finished, and kids needed baths and tucking in, so I left it until this morning. I sat down with my coffee to watch what I thought was about to be a was about a four minute trailer. Guys, it's the whole movie. I am absolutely stoked at this turn of events. I only wish it wasn't Monday morning, before I had to

leave for work. I plan on revisiting this when I get home and watching the heck out of this movie. Thanks for all you do. You keep me entertained with thought provoking, deep die on the most bonkers in the best way subjects and wonderful so bad they're good movie recaps. I appreciate you too, Sincerely, Steph. Oh, thank you, Steph. Thank you for the for the nice comments, and I

hope you enjoy the movie. I would I would like to once again issue a call to somebody out there who I don't know owns the rights to this or whatever put out a high quality restoration disc of The Butterfly Murders. I am I am ready to give you my money, and Steph, you'll have to let us know what you think of the movie. I hope we didn't build it up too much, but yeah, I hope you enjoyed as much as we did. Okay, one last message in response to our series on the legends of headless Ghosts, gods,

and monsters. This message comes from Taylor and it describes as strange and uncanny personal experience. So I'll leave you with a with a little spooky story. At the end of today's episode, Taylor says, Hello, Robin, Joe, I just finished your two part series on headless beings and felt inclined to share a spooky personal anecdote in the stuff to Blow your mind tradition of the Halloween hangover. Who I guess we're getting a little deep in November for that,

But you know what, that's all right, Taylor says. On a chilly autumn evening in my mid teens, I was cycling home from a friend's house when I spotted a strange mass of gore and feathers on the side of the road. The amorphous thing was centered in a pool of light cast by a corner street lamp. Ever curious and unsure what I beheld, I dismounted my bike to get a closer look. As I approached, in horrified fascination, the thing rose up and turned to regard me with

the gory stump of its neck. I realized that the previously indistinguishable mass of bloody feathers was a decapitated chicken. For a long moment, I stared into that next stump, and the stump seemed to stare back at me. Then, with seeming serenity, the chicken settled back into a resting position, and I went on my way. I generally have a poor memory of my personal history, but this moment was so chilling and bizarre that it is burned into my mind.

I grew up in a semi rural area, and I was aware that a chicken's body could go about without its head for some hours. But who had dispatched this chicken without collecting it? How had the body wandered into the street, Why was it sitting right beneath a lamp as it as if composed to frighten me? And most importantly, how did it seem to see me without a head? As an adult and a science educator, this memory serves as an example against the false horse and rider dichotomy

we tend to draw between body and head. Perhaps the chicken was under the street lamp because it was a relatively warm location in its immediate environment. Perhaps it felt the vibrations of my approaching footfalls through its feet and thus rose to regard me. And perhaps all of those stimuli were parsed and processed by an avan body bar reft of its head. I hope you and my fellow listeners enjoyed this spooky little memory. As ever, thank you

for sharing your thoughtful meditations with all of us. I hope you and yours enjoy happy holidays. Taylor, Well, thank you, Taylor. That is truly a creepy story. I don't know what

the best explanation of all that would be. I mean, I know there are these stories of famously Mike the headless chicken, which after being decapitated by a farmer, went on to live for something like eighteen months or something, and the explanation in that case was that the farmer had severed its head near like the base of the skull, but still most of its brain stem was intact and was able to keep regulating body function for a while.

But even in other cases, I know, you know, as you say, chickens do sometimes move around for a little bit after getting their heads chopped off. But in this case, yeah, I don't know how to explain what you saw. Actually, the creepiest part for me is not really the fact that it was a and still sort of alive and moving around without a head, but that question you raised about how it got that way and why it was sitting there by itself, Like if a human or a

predator removed its head, where'd they go? I don't know. Creepy. All right, that's going to close things out for today, but Rob and I will be back tomorrow with all new stuff for you to enjoy. We read listener mail every Monday on the show. Tuesdays and Thursdays are our core Stuff to Blow your Mind episodes about science and culture. Wednesdays we run short form episodes called the Artifact or

the Monster Fact. On Fridays we take a break from our regular subject matter to do a show we call Weird House Cinema, where each week we watch and discuss a weird movie. It can be great or terrible, well known or obscure. The only real criterion is that it

is weird. And then on Saturdays we feature an older episode of the show from the vault Huge thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway'd like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, you can email us at contact at stuffdo Blow your Mind dot com.