Light as a Feather, Stiff as a Board

a slumber party. All right, So go back to your roots, go back to your your childhood memories if you have them, of a slumber party, you know, dressing your long pajamas, huddle around the floor and and start thinking long and hard about the occult in the supernatural world and who you are going to pick to put their hand in a bowl of water when they fall asleep. Oh yeah, yeah,

that old trick. I have heard that one. Or there's the putting the food cream in the hand or the shaving cream in the hand, and then tickle the nose and then and then want wont even cream on the head? The the amusing thing. When we were talking about this episode and getting things together for you have some legitimate slumber party memories and some anecdotes about horsing grounds with a lot of this stuff. But I don't think I

ever did any of this stuff. I can only think of a like a few like a handful of slumber party type things that I went to. And I don't even think we call it. You call them slumber parties necessarily if it's little boys, I feel like they were just like sleepovers or something. And and I think we just basically played a lot of video games. And I remember once, uh, the kid whose house it was, he was grounded because he ran through the house naked, and

like that was the extent of the excitement. All right, Well, I don't want to get off on a tangent already before we've started the podcast, because obviously we're gonna cover some of these slumber party hijinks of our youth and talk about the science behind them of what seemed like it could be possible or not possible. But I wanted to point that out, the gender difference. I wonder if

the obsession with the occult has something to do with UM. Well, not I'm not saying all kids girls are witches the inherent evil of of the male set exactly, That's what I meant to say. But I wonder if that has some sort of root in um interest in this, because there was a sort of, if you look at it, at least historically, a power in invocating things and looking towards the dark arts well for power as opposed to actually having a lot of power in your life, and

I'm thinking's sixteen hundred years. Yeah. Well, one thing that definitely comes to mind is that a lot of these games kind of remind us of ice breakers, and they are they're they're forcing people to interact with each other. It's more of a communal, open experience, and by and large, it seems like females are often more inclined to that

than the males when they're in their individual groups. For instance, when I think of j Ju Saana, which is here in Atlanta, this koree in Sanna that a lot of people go to, and it's really cool, but they divide you into into sexes for part of it. There's the men sauna and the women sauna, and so I only know what goes on in the men sana obviously, so I'll my wife it's like, well, what's it like in the in the women's son and it's like, well, there's

a lot of talking. There's a lot of women within their own group talking without each other, and then you may meet other women that are in the that side of the sauna, whereas on the men's side, it's completely different. It's just like a bunch of naked dudes staring at the at the tiles. You know, there's not really any talking going on. And granted that's a little different than a childhood slumber party. But but but I can see where.

I mean, guys are just gonna they're not gonna be as as open to say, doing light as a finger. Stiff as a board. Well, I don't know. I think that next time you go that you should bring Auji board in with you to the sauna and see if you can strike up some conversations. Yeah, yeah, maybe so, maybe so. Yeah. Alright, so you have mentioned, uh, let his feather stiff as board, which is something known as

party levitation. Yes, this was apparently made famous by the film The Craft, which I think I saw, but I only remember that actress Faruza Bach was in it and she's all Gothian. You know that. That's my full experience with that film. Well, here's a setup. Okay, you've got your sleepover, and this is a a sleepover staple, by

the way, party levitation. So imagine four nine pound girls who are all arranged around their friend and she's laying on her back on the floor, okay, And they all get just one finger, each finger from each chant under her. And then they are going to lift up this nine pound girl just using their index fingers. So inevit believe they try. They're like, all right, let's lift her using

our fingers. And nothing happens. Right, It's just a bunch of people lifting up on their fingers, tickling the person a little bit, and it's it's hilarious, but nothing happens. Yeah, and then someone says, hey, let's let's hearken back to our Wiccan ancestors and and uh repeat a chant that may give us the power, supernatural power, supernatural strength to lift her. And so they chant four times, as though they are now a coven of witches casting their spell.

And they chant light as a feather stiff as a board. Light is a feather stiff as a board, Light as a feather stiff as a board. And on the fourth one, miraculously they levitate their friend. Well, they don't quite levitate her, but they lily in the proper environment, with the proper expectations, can certainly seem like an amazing levitation experience. And that's the one of the key things to realize here. First

of all, visualized experience. Never we've touched on this before, but never discount the power of a little ritual and a thing because it can It changes your perception about what is happening, in your expectations about what will happen. Likewise, concerted effort light is a finger stiff in the board is kind of a on account of three type of deal.

On account of three, we're all going to do this at once, as opposed to girls randomly moving their fingers up and down and not picking someone up off the off the floor. Yeah, you're right, you're synchronizing with that, which is really important. We've talked about that too in terms of a sort of ritual that you do as a group, because you're also synchronizing the neurons that are firing in your brain. Yeah, whether you're getting geared up to run through a run, to walk across some hot coals,

or you're in church singing hymn. Yeah. And Dr Carl krislin Nikki of Australia's ABC Science has said that that's really important, this this chanting, this ritualized portion of it and sinking up. But not only that, as you say, the memory of it, because he's saying that if you look at any clip on YouTube, you will see that what is happening is that um, once they sink up and once they do the chanting, that yes and d they do lift their friend, but it's really only a

couple of inches. And the friends about the fall and it's not quite the success that they think it is in their minds when when they're talking about it in the clips, they're like, whoa, we actually really lifted for a very high. Yeah, but you're ten years old, you're

full of sugar, it's late at night. The perception is gonna be a little different, right, And I have to say to you that when I did it and sleepover before that, when I take out that memory and I examine it, I did think that, you know, I was really lifting my friend very high. Were you yourself levitated

or were you one of the levitator? I was one of the levitators because I really, like, you know, I was obsessed with the occult at that age, by the way, and not just the occult, like I would spend my weekends trying to hypnotize myself and I had books on it, and so these we were huge mysteries to me, and I put a lot of effort into it. So if someone was gonna be you know, levitated, I was going to be in that group to help them with the power.

We'll see, and this is we'll discuss this a little more in a minute, but I feel like I was. I was always fascinated with the occult as well, um, you know, and I would buy like I had a copy of that the fake Necronomicon. I had a copy of the the Satanic Bible. I mean, you know, in anything like that. That was just kind of you know, who, this is spooky and kind of you know, like I would get into it. But then I was always reluctant

to cross a certain line. I was maybe not terrified, but I was reluctant to cross that line where something might actually happen. See, I would have gone like Willow Evil Willow instantly. I was a big participant in that. Um. I want to also mentioned that doctor chrisal Nikki talks about the third and last factor being the strength in our fingers and that we just underestimate them. Yeah, I

mean it looks like nothing. And certainly if you haven't had the broken finger, you've seen someone who has and you get that in your mind instantly. I mean, you're there are so many opportunities to to damage your digits in the course of the day, so you're you're very conscious of that. But in reality, they're they're pretty rugged and there they can hold a lot of strength. I mean, there are examples of famous strong men who were able

to do some amazing feats with just a finger or two. Uh. There was a Louis Sear, the old time French Canadian strongman, who could allegedly lift five hundred and fifty three pounds with a single finger. He'd uses his right middle, by the way, and um. Then there was an American strongman by the name of Warren Lincoln Travis and uh he allegedly lifted five hundred sixty pounds on its fiftieth birthday with a single finger. I'm not sure which one it was.

I love to imagine that both of them had magnificently curled mustaches. Yes, when I was recently I started looking through some of these pictures of these guys, and you know, there's a lot of cool facial hair, a lot of those old timey what do you call it, like a wrestler wears single. It sounds right, sounds Occasionally old timey nude photo would pop up every I think it was maybe Louis here, the French Canadian guy. I was like, oh,

that's a little much Louie. Thanks Loe, But yeah, go look some of those little guys up if you get a chance. It's it's pretty amusing. But I think the really cool things that are going on here is again memory, which we've talked about it. We've talked about this. There's reserve of strength in our bodies. Yes, that we can you know, hit the potential sometimes and not even realize and not realizing thinking we're more fragile than we are, which is something we saw with with walking on hot coals.

We talked about you see the coals, you see fire, You think, no way am I gonna walk on that. If I walk on that, I'm going to burn. But as we discussed in that episode, if things are under the right conditions, it's very doable. And this is something that's very doable, and you've got the group psychology element to it as well. Um. Another good staple of a slumber party is of course the wegi board. Yes, with one of the most mysterious spellings of of of all time.

Of course, that is O, U, I J A. I think there's only a handful of people on earth who remember that in any given moment um. Anytime I search for it, I'm like typing in all sorts of weird combinations of letters. But this is, of course, a board looks more or less like a like a board game board. Right. Uh, you unfolded and you have has a number of letters spread out across it, and some numbers and a yes and a no, and maybe and U. It actually was a board game that came into vogue around ninety at

least in the United's dates. And it was a parlor game and it was sold in novelty shops. Yeah, and there are other models of it that existed before it actually became the Luigi board. That goes back to mid nineteenth century talking boards. The kind of use the same principle those were using. Now to make this work, you need a little device. It kind of looks like a computer mouse. Uh. This is called a plane jet. It is a three legged little object with a hole in

the middle or a pointer. Now on some of these older, the older traditions who would also put a pencil there and everyone would put their fingers or one person who is in charge of the seance would put their fingers on it, and then the spirit would guide the pencil to draw out each individual letter. But the thing is that takes forever, so the talking board comes apart because someone eventually loses their cool in the seance. The like, just write some letters on a board. What are you

trying to say? Already? I know the time is limitless in the spirit world, but we have places to be, So just get some letters on a board and let's roll with this thing. I'm getting charged by the minute. Most of everyone out there. Imagine a Sinawegi board and this is what happens. You have a number of people gather around this board. Everyone puts their fingers on the plane schet and then you speak to the spirit world. You're like, oh, spirits of old, tell me what's the

name of my future boyfriend? That kind of thing. You know, whatever your your questions are, you can ask the spirit of anything. Every anything is fair game. And where is my pony? Where is my pony? And then it will begin to move. Nobody's touching it. Everyone's like, are you touching it. No, I'm not. I mean everyone's touching it, but no one's supposed to be moving it. And everyone starts accusing everyone else. Are you moving at? No, I'm not moving at Oh, my goodness is moving on its own.

Spirit is moving it. And then the the pointer will move from one letter to another, or from a yes two or to a yes or no, depending on what kind of question you asked. And it really does when you're at that age I think too, or even when you're older, and perhaps there's other substances involved. Um, you do really sort of feel like it is moving, and so of course that's the parlor game trick to it all. Um, what is actually going on is something called the idiometer effect.

And these are small muscle movements that we generate unconsciously. Yeah. The term was coined by William B. Carpenter in eighteen fifty two, and he was explaining another pseudo of scientific slash occultist thing, which is the movement of rods and pendulums by dowsers, dowsing rods of which you used to find water and the like. And so he looked at this and he realized, all right, well, these people are observing some sort of phenomenon. Uh, something's going on, but

it's not discovering where water is by using a stick. Well, there is a new scientists article called wig Board Help Scientists Probe this subconscious And in it they are talking to psychologists Helene Gushu and she says that this idiomotor action is present in our day all the time, we just don't realize it. Yes, it's just a part of everyday life. But this is an experiment focuses in on something that we don't usually look at and then applies

a level of ritual and expectation to it. Yeah, and she says, like, take driving your car along a familiar route that you do every morning, and then you arrive, you park your car, and you have this feeling like how did I get here? Have you ever done that? And she says that this inner zombie is part of this whole idiometer effect, that we're doing all of this subconsciously,

you're not even really realizing it. And so what she did is she wanted to test this idea and she had her team and work with one person with her finger on a plan chet at a time. Okay, So she realized though that the idiometer effect is really maximized with Weiji board if you believe you are not responsible for any movements. And this is brilliant what she does here. Yeah, so she so what she does, she says, okay, well, now this person needs to feel like they're in a

group situation or with another person. And so what she did is she she told them they would be using the board with a partner, and then the subject was then blindfolded and then what they didn't know is that they're so called partner removed their hands from the planchet when the experiment began, so they think other people are touching it, but they're not really, they're really going solo

with these answers yes. And she said the technique worked at least was something like twenty one out of twenty seven times with the volunteers tested. And she said the plant, the planchett does not move randomly around the board and moves to yes or no for these twenty one out of seven, and it moves seems to move almost magically to them, and none of them felt responsible for the movement,

even though of course they were doing it. And in fact, some subjects suspected that their partner was really an actor that they thought the actor was deliberately moving the planchet, and they never suspected that they themselves were the ones

that were doing it. It's also important to know that in experiments, if you turn the board upside down after the individual was blindfolded or the individuals are blindfolded, the spirit will not adjust to the new positioning of the board, which seems really inflexible in case anyone who was out there was like, was still on the fence about whether

or not this was a ghost talking. But the amazing thing about all of this is that, and I think it's the case with all the things that we're talking about in this particular episode, is that on one level, there's that childhood fantasy, occultist level of intrigue about it, like something amazing is happening here. Well, then when you look behind the scenes and you look at the actual science,

there's still something amazing happening here. At risk of overstating it a little bit, you're not getting in touch with an unknowable spirit from from beyond our perception. You're getting in touch with the subconscious, which is kind of an unknowable spirit from beyond our perception. To quote Sigmund Freud, the conscious mind may be compared to a fountain playing in the sun and falling back into the great subterranean

pool of subconsciousness from which it rises. So in that deep, black, murky ocean of the the underbraining sea, with the luigiboard, we're kind of getting in touch with the monsters that lived there. So what I want to know is is, uh, do you think psychologists will begin using the Wegi board in their sessions? Oh, I don't know. It might have a certain stigma to it. It might, but I do

think it's interesting because it is unearthing some things. And I was thinking about my own experience as a child with weg board, and I remember that we were talking to a spirit named Seth through doesn't that sound like you know Seth? And someone said what does Julie dream about? And then it went to or it spelled out A bombs which was something and that I used to dream about this a nightmare that had a reoccurring nightmare about

Adam bombs. So you know, obviously I was moving it, but I didn't know consciously that I was spelling out A bombs that it really bothered me that much. That's pretty cool. I I myself have I don't think I've ever used to wegi board. Maybe in the week ahead we will correct this and we'll videotape it and put it on the web side. We'll see. But yeah, I never used one. My mom had one and was apparently a fan of the device, but then she went off to college and when she came back, he was gone.

And and she attributed this. Uh, I mean maybe not seriously, but she used just she would mention like, oh, I think it advantished, And then later on she realized, oh wait, my she's she's realized that my grandmother had gotten rid of it. Because I don't think she relay liked it. You know, because because some people get up in arms about the Luigi board, some people were a little leary. Some people see it is, if not harmless in and of itself, they see it as a gateway to other

occultist things. And uh, and if you read a lot of chick tracks, you may think that it is just

straight up talking to the devil. Yeah, but if you want to take a little bit power out of that, play the game, you know, and get an unbiased person to stand there and actually see the letters that are spelled up, because this is another thing that they say, Yeah, go in, go into it if you want, I mean, by all means, going to it and have some fun with Auigi board and talk about spirits and all, but also go into it and think about the mysteries you're

about to examine with the human mind. Yeah. Yeah, blindfold yourselves, get an unbiased person to stand there and to actually see what the letters are. And I will tell you that most times gobbledygook is going to come out of that. And it's a good example of how really it is the unconscious mind that's guiding this process. All Right, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're gonna talk to somebody by the name of Bloody

and Mary. Alright, we're back, and you mentioned Bloody Mary. Yes, now this one I definitely remember. The rules of this are pretty simple. You can do this on your own or certainly at a slumber party. The ideas you go into the bathroom lights out, all right, or the very least dim lights. Generally they say lights out, but there's probably gonna be some light in there be a candle or candle in hand, or just light under the doors.

Just be dramatic about it. Candle in hand, alright, light out, candle in hand, going too the bathroom, stare into the a room, and then you say the name Bloody Mary three times, five times, six times, seven times. It it depends, it varies. The recipe is not really set in stone, but any rate, by saying in a number of times, you invoke this incantation and a mysterious, blood faced woman will appear in the mirror before you. She will reach

out and she will scratch your face off. So yeah, this is definitely an example of a situation where I was reluctant to cross the line of the occult. You know, I think about it all the time when I'm seeing a dark bathroom and noticing the mirror in there. But I guess at hard. I'm thinking, all right, if it if it doesn't work, if a woman does not appear in the mirror and attack me, then it's just all for nothing. But but what if she does? You know,

where's the wind there? All right, it worked and now I have no face? Right? Or what if she grabbed you and take you into her death portal with her? That could happen too, And of course one of the things involved here is that we're talking about a mirror, and mirrors have long had this association with magic and the unknown, because at a very basic level, you look into a mirror and there you see yourself with a little inversion going on to sort of mess with you.

And if it's not a perfect mirror, and certainly for the longest mirrors were largely imperfect in certain ways, you get a distorted view of what the world is like. And so there's a long, long history of mirrors being used in occultist or a religious ceremonies, even their numerous examples of magic mirrors. There was Combustion's mirror, which warned of approaching ill fortune. There was Lows mirror, which reflected the mind and its thoughts. There was Merlin's magic mirror

that informed the King of plots, treasons and invasions. There was Reynard's Wonderful Mirror, which showed conditions one mile away, which I think it's kind of a limited design there, and then Vulcan's mirror showed the past, president future, and of course Harry Potter there was a magic mirror, and there it shows you Harry Potter's parents, I believe well, and then wicked rituals too. Apparently, UM, young women who are trying to figure out who their husband would be.

Again we're talking back in the old day, would take a mirror and a candle, walk backwards, ask the mirror, and sometimes it was thought that the mirror would reveal who the husband, who their husband would be, or sometimes it was bloody Mary, who would appear. Now have you done this? Have you? I've not done blady for whatever reason, I just never never have done it. But I do think it's interesting. Today's Um, you know, right after this, I'm going to go into your office bathroom and I'm

going to do bloodyrror. I don't care who's in this stall. But I do think it's interesting because again you've got the incantation part of it, the ritual part of it. But let's talk about what's actually going on, because I think that is really cool, right, because there's another example of the fantasy. The fiction. The supernatural aspect of it is interesting, but when you you strip that away and you get down to the science, it's equally creepy and

weird and amazing because here's the thing. People do see things in the mirror. But again, it points to this idea that we can't always trust what we see and what our eyes can put together. For us UM at the University of Urbino, researcher Giovanni Baputo had fifty participants look in the mirror for ten minutes in a dimly lit room and describe what they saw. Now, none of these people were knew what they were there for, so they had no preconceived notions of bloody marry Um. Alright,

what they saw is fascinating. It is fascinating, And this was published in the Journal of Perception. Two thirds of participants saw said that they saw huge deformations of their own face. Okay, nearly half of the participants even reported seeing fantastical or monstrous beings. A few participants reported seeing faces of parents, ancestors, and strangers, including women and children. And all the participants saw someone or something in the

mirror other than themselves. Saw an archetype in the mirror. They saw an old woman, or they saw a child, or a portrait of an ancestor kind of a thing, you know. So, yeah, everyone's staring into this mirror, and if you stare long enough, you see something else. You see the face becomes something else. To you. And that's because, according to computer you've got basic visual distortions affecting the

space specific interpretation system part of your brain. So when your brain is faced with a lot of stimulation, only some of it is considered relevant. So as it continues to look and look and look at the reflection of your face, then is trying to make sense of what

what's really important here? There are a lot of different details, Like I find myself doing this when I look people, when I actually look people in the eyes while they're talking, like I'll start, you know, because there's sort of a quick visual reference, like I'm looking around the room and I'm like, all right, there's Julie. There's not that kind

of thing. But then if you really look at somebody, then you start getting all this additional information, you know, and you start thinking about like, oh, well, let's see there's the shape of their nose, there's the shape of their eyebrows. And then indeed, if you stare them long enough, um, with a nice uncomfortable stare, then they start to look a little weird, you know. Well, and this is called the truck slur effect because your brain watch like zoom in on an area and then the race the rest

of the space will actually fade away. And you've probably seen examples of this before online. Usually it's like a a ring of purple dots, and then you're supposed to stare at the one dot that goes around around in a circle. And then what happens is the purple fades and then there's the yellow dot becomes more pronounced again. It's your brain trying to figure out what's important, fading in and fading out. Yeah, And also, I mean there's a certain amount of your brain just sort of chewing

on itself there too. If you stare at anything long enough, you're just gonna eventually kind of unsee it and see different things. I think if anytime you stared up into the clouds, or if you've been in say a boring meeting or something, and you just stare at a particular detail in the room, you start noticing more and more

new things about it. You start in making new interpretations about it, seeing a face where there's not a face, seeing if you're looking at the sky, you know, singing a dinosaur writing a tricycle where there's not a dinosaur

writing a tricycle. You know, I was thinking too, about you know, when you're when you're actually doing this in the mirror and the trucul effect is occurring that how weird is it that a slice of your forehead and cheek are then subed int for your eye, because that's really what your brain is doing with that um So of course you would come away with this idea that there was something monstrous that you saw something in the mirror and it had to do with something that was

paranormal or the dark arts. Yeah, and throw into that if you're if you're using the candle in this particular environment, then you also have a light source that is flickering. That's so that's altering a little bit, and it's distorting the edges the lines in the face that you're perceiving. So changes in lighting are also going to contribute to this strange image of yourself that quickly becomes something other

than yourself. Now, you're right, it is complicating the matter, and especially when we talked about reduction in the last podcast about the science of han at houses and how your bring really has to sort of recalibrate according to the lighting available. So of course that's going to distort things further. And again mirrors are just kind of weird

and creepy. I can't help but think of this without the reminded of some of the writings of your hey los Borges, who of course, is a poet who was fascinated by mazes and mirrors, and there's a great little line from his poem Mirrors that says, I see them as infinite elemental executors of an ancient pact to multiply the world, like the act of the getting sleepless, bringing doom the crystal spies on us. If within the four walls of a bedroom a mirror stairs, I am no

longer alone. There is someone there in the dawn reflections mutely stages show I like that. I like this idea to you that you know, ultimately we we feel this sense that we're unknowable to ourselves. And so if you're staring in the mirror, that's representing this unknown quantity. Yeah, it ties in nicely with the Uiji board, I think, you know, reaching out and touching bass with the subconscious and coming to terms with the hidden self. All right, psychologists,

we have another one for you, Bloody Mary. Try it out in your practice, Yes, tell her, we think so there you have its slumber party goers, some science behind the slumber party anticks you used to try out, also

some new emma for your next slumber party. So it's it's really gonna be great to hear from listeners on this because I know you guys and gals have tried these before, so be sure to let us know about your own experiences levitating your friends, uh, your own experiences trying to summon dark, bloody specters from the mirror, and of course your communications with the with the spirit world a k a. You're subconscious. We'd love to hear about that. So let's call over the robot and we'll see if

we have any listener mail. Alright, our listener, Monique Rite sentences Hi, Julie and Robert. In two separate podcasts, you talked about that in neighborhoods that are bad, people were more likely to walk past a person in need than in a cleaner naighborhood. There is a criminal justice theory similar to this phenomena. It's called the broken windows theory,

thought up by Wilson and Kelling. In essence, the theory states that in neighborhoods that are unkempt, there is a silent signal to wrongdoers that since people do not care about the neighborhoods, they also won't care about committing petty crimes, which is a silent signal for wrongdoers to commit more serious crimes. There's an interesting experiment that was done surrounding this by Dr Zimbardo of the Stanford Prison Experiment fame. He left a car in a bad neighborhood with the

hood up, signaling that no one cared about it. It took a few short days for the car to be dismantled. Thanks again for your great podcast, Manique, very interesting, and we also heard from Scott Scott right since says Julian, Robert just wanted you to to know how much your podcast helped me out during a really rough point in my life. I have a panic disorder. Diagnosing it beyond that is pretty difficult that I have been working on

for the past six years. Unfortunately, driving, especially on the highway, was a pretty major trigger, and having a panic attack while driving is pretty no buno. But there's the Spanish no buono that's no business, no good, huh. At one point, listening to music would get me through reasonably well, but I got to the point where music was no longer engaging my intention enough to keep my mind off of panicking.

That's where your podcast came in. I wasn't even sure what a podcast actually was, being a bit of an anti Apple guy myself, until there was a free podcast app on Amazon's Android market. One day last year, I found your podcast while browsing listenings in that app and opened it up. Uh and opened up the new world of being able to drive more or less without panicking. I have since learned, after six years of having problems functioning like a normal human, that my vitamin D level

was extremely low. I started taking supplements in January and haven't had an attack since, which is pretty remarkable. I think since then I have envisioned a podcast about anxiety, panic attacks, and what happens in the body and mind. From what I can tell, there is very little research on the link between vitamin D levels and panic and some individuals, but I'm cynical enough to believe that it is because vitamin D can't be patented. I'd love to hear what you guys find out about it. Once again,

I can't thank you both enough. You really made my life a lot more bearable your fan, avid listener and research intern hopeful Scott, So there you go. That's awesome. Yeah, I was just thinking those are two very good podcasts. Panic Attacks would be very interesting to look into. And also vitamins. Um, we talked about vitamin A and the lack of vitamin A being attributed to night blindness, so um, certainly when those levels are off it can affect things.

So so yeah, Scott, glad that we were able to help him some small way, and glad that you've been able to really tackle that that problem. Indeed. Yeah, So, hey, the rest of you get in touch with us. Let us know. Any past episodes are up for grabs. Don't worry about contacting us about an older episode. You have some cool feedback on and certainly if you want to talk to us about Bloody Mary or whatnot, we're always

game for that. You can find us on Facebook and Tumbler where we are stuff to blow your mind, and you can also find us on Twitter where we tweet under the handle blow the Mind, And you can always drop us a line at Blow the Mind at Discovery dot com and Happy Halloween for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is It how stuff works dot Com m HM,