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Licking, Part 3

Dec 04, 202559 min
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Episode description

In this series from Stuff to Blow Your Mind, Robert and Joe discuss the science, culture and mythology of licking. (part 3 of 3)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb.

Speaker 2

And I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're back with the third part in a series on lick licking with the tongue, which we began before the week we were recently out for the holiday. We thought we might end the series after the second part. We got some great listener mail on this subject and decided we'd like to come back and talk about it for at least one more episode,

so to refresh on the previous two episodes. In part one, we talked about licking in the context of ancient Egyptian ritual magic, where licking could bestow healing and divine blessings.

For example, in the Licks of the Cow goddess Hathor who is described licking the limbs of Pharaoh Hatchupsot to give her life and kingly power, and licking could also be a vehicle for curses and magical violence, like the danger described in the Book of the Dead of the danger of being licked by the demon Crocodile in the afterlife, where the lick is some kind of attack understood is

removing protective magic from the dead person's soul. We briefly talked about some research on at what age children start to get the idea that food or eating utensils can be contaminated by being licked by other people. And we also talked about the surprisingly interesting question how many licks does it take to get to the center of a TUTSI pop? That question kind of well, it starts from a classic candy commercial. If you haven't seen it, where

have you been? Look it up? But also that sort of moved from the commercial to a bunch of laboratory experiments, empirical testing, and then I think you could say, finally winds up in the mind of the philosopher or the philosopher of science, prompting us to think about think about the ways that assumptions are often hit in seemingly mundane empirical questions and how that should affect the way we try to answer them.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we got some good listener mail about the tussy Rall topic as well.

Speaker 2

Yeah, definitely addressed in the listener mail episode from earlier this week on Tuesday, So if you haven't heard that, check it out after this In part two of the Licking series, we talked about wound licking behavior in animals, especially in mammals, and the difficult trade offs involved. In effect, the licking of wounds comes with both benefits and dangers biologically, so there's a balancing of risk and reward underlying the

evolution and preservation of that behavior. Though fortunately humans have come up with a technological replacement for wound locking, which is washing wounds with clean water or clean water and soap, which gives us most of the same benefits while eliminating most of the risks. We also talked about the specific qualities of the cat's tongue and its roughness and function, and self cleaning, and some prevailing theories about what it

means when a cat licks of human. After this, we got into eye locking, especially self eye looking in geckos and in a few alleged cases, I guess, some verified cases in humans with extraordinarily long tongues. And we're back today to do another episode.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so let's start with bears. So this is the one. This is the reason that we're doing a part three, though not everything that we're going to be discussing here is going to relate directly to bears.

Speaker 2

Right, So I wanted to begin with an email we received after the first two parts from listener Elena. Elena says, hello, Robert and Joe. I really enjoyed the episodes on licking. They made me think of a medieval belief about bears. People thought that bears gave birth to shapeless blobs of flesh and only through licking the mother would give them the physical characteristics of a bear cub. Elena, that's the whole message, So thank you, Elena. I actually did not

know that. That was really interesting to me, and it made me want to do a whole segment here. But I have to also mention that with this email, Elena attached a medieval illustration of an adult bear licking. I guess what's supposed to be an unformed lump of flesh. It is like a three lobed little pink ham, just a little kind of three three hump thing. And I

didn't know where this was from. Elena did not include that information in the email, but I did a reverse image search and figured out that this is originally from a twelfth century text called the Aberdeen Bestiery, which has been held by the Aberdeen Library in Scotland. Since the

mid sixteenth century. The bear entry in this bestiary actually shares a page with the entry for the monoceros, a legendary one horned creature sometimes equated with the unicorn, or maybe a different creature than a unicorn, but sharing a lot of the same characteristics. Rab I went back and I got a picture of the whole page for you to look at here, so you can get bear licking the three and the one horned unicorn or non unicorn type creature right above it.

Speaker 1

Well, I certainly can't read any of the text, but the mere fact that the bear image is on the same page with the unicorn image lets me know that I can trust its accuracy. Right.

Speaker 2

The University of Aberdeen Collections website hosts a full scan of the text, so you can actually go look at it yourself if you'd like to. It's worth the look. It's pretty interesting. They've also got sort of interpretation materials beneath each page of the text, as well as their own translations of the Latin. I believe it's in Latin,

but there are modern English translations. First of all, I have to say that the best Eieri entry on the bear is full of awesome twelfth century bear facts varying accuracy. I'm going to come back to the claims about the unformed newborn bear in a bit, but first I just wanted to talk about a few other things said in this text, especially since a few of them end up

connecting in interesting ways. Back to the bear's tongue. The first thing that this book says, apart from some claims about bears being unformed at birth, is quote, the bear's head is not strong. Its greatest strength lies in its arms and loins. For this reason, bears sometimes stand upright. And I don't know, I think it's kind of hilarious to imagine somebody in the twelfth century looking at a bear and saying, not a very strong head.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I've seen plenty of bear footage where I'm thinking long and hard about how strong and terrifying the head is.

Speaker 2

To be fair, I think this might not be an inaccurate original observation. Probably a lot of the facts in this bestiary are not direct observations by the author, but there are things being repeated from other texts going back into classical times.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that kind of game of telephone, And I don't know, I guess you could. You know, you can probably imagine certain interpretation of the basic form of the bear, and maybe in some cases, with some bears particularly, I'm thinking, like you know, black bears, you could maybe interpret the head as being smaller than the body. Like, you know, there's a way of looking at, say a black bear, where you might interpret this. I can sort of see where they're maybe coming from.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, so there's a way in which you could say. This is kind of true, but not as stated. It is not fair to say that bears have weak heads. A brown bear, for example, has an extremely powerful skull with powerful bones and jaw muscles, powerful neck muscles, with a bite capable of crushing bones. What is true, however, is that when you compare the bite force to the body mass in a factor that's called bite force quotient, that's how strong the bite is compared to how big

your body is. Even brown bears tend to have a smaller bite force quotient than many other carnivores, like less than half of that of standouts like the Tasmanian devil, which has an incredibly high bite force quotient and still significantly lower than that of a jaguar very high bite force quotient. So it's a huge body and a very powerful jaw. But you can say that its jaw is not especially powerful for its body size, but its body size is enormous.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I also thought it was interesting how the text claims that, so it doesn't have a strong head, its greatest strength lies in its arms and loins. For this reason, bears sometimes stand upright. That actually got me wondering why do bears usually stand upright when they do? We've seen bears doing this, you know, what are the most common reasons?

I was reading around. It seems that people with a lot of experience with bears emphasize that the most common reasons bears seem to do this is for information gathering purposes.

So the head contains the sensory array the eyes, the ears, and the nose, and by standing up and placing the head higher, bears allow themselves a longer viewing horizon, seeing over obstacles, better ability to use directional hearing, and the ability to isolate smells wafting from a distance as opposed to what's coming up from right around the ground where you are. Bears might also stand up to reach objects high up or to manipulate objects with their forelimbs. So

there is some truth here. Bears do tend to have more forelimb dexterity than many other carnivores, though not as much as most primates. That dexterity comes from a number of things, in part, like the way that bears are able to rotate their arms with a greater degree of freedom than animals like dogs, whose fore limb movement is more restricted to the backward forward motion parallel to the

length of the body. There are also differences in the bear's posture, like walking flat footed versus walking on the digits, which some carnivores do, having more separated digits independently movable digits. Things like that, and these things make bear arms and bare four paws more versatile than like a dog's fore legs and four paws, which are built with more focus on running speed.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and I guess something to keep in mind in all of this, too, is that in general, when we're talking about bears, especially modern bears, you're mostly dealing with a varied omnivorous diet. Of course, there are outliers on either end, you know, considering polar bears and panda bears. But for the most part, you're dealing with a bear that like one. Depending on what's available in the season, it might be eating a bunch of vegetation. It might

be eating a part of a dead whale. It might be eating honey, it might be eating the contents of a refrigerator. You know, it's going to depend and it needs to have the abilities to shift between these different sources of food.

Speaker 2

The diet is more varied. Therefore, the bear's behavior needs to be more general as opposed to more specific, and so as a generalist, it has to have more freedom to do different kinds of things with its bot.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Another interesting claim from this book is about bear sex. It says bears and we have to assume here that this is talking mainly about brown bears, you know, for geographical historical reasons. It says they do not mate like other quadrupeds, but embrace each other when they copulate, just like the couplings of humans.

Speaker 1

You know, I didn't have time to see what else Plenty had to say about sexual positions for humans, but it almost sounds like he's saying for humans, only two sexual positions are known, and this is how bears stack, or maybe just one.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, so it says, yeah, it says that they embrace one another. I can't say for sure that bears never face each other during copulation. I can't like rule out that that happens. But after some extensive kind of awkward googling, it seems to me that the standard what's called the dorso ventral position, which you see in other quadrupedal mammals, the male mounting from behind, that is also the norm for bears, at least most of the time.

What is definitely true, however, and what may have inspired this claim, is that male and female bears engage in extensive courtship rituals, lasting for days or even weeks at a time. And these courtship rituals, while the bears are sort of getting to know one another, they can include all kinds of things that could be mistaken for face

to face copulation. So this can include face to face wrestling and play fighting, which does sometimes look like embracing, as well as just lots of sniffing each other and nuzzling and body rubbing of various sorts. So bears go through extensive courtship rituals, and you could think how somebody seeing this from a distance could think that this was actually the act of mating.

Speaker 1

Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2

Another interesting claim here is the entry says when sick, the bear eats ants. Now bears do eat ants, though I couldn't find any evidence that they do so, especially when they're sick. It just seems ants are part of a bear's omnivorous repertoire, especially it seems with black bears. I was reading up on this and I discovered that

bears are not usually interested in eating adult ants. Instead, when they go ant hunting, they are looking for what's called the ant brood, the plump little insect sausages that are the ant colonies young. This would be the larvae and the pewpe These are little grub like juveniles that are packed with protein and fat, and they are especially prized as a nutritious food source by black bears. And in fact, to come back to the subject of licking, have you ever seen a black bear's tongue, rob, I.

Speaker 1

Don't think I had until you shared this image here, and it is. Oh, it is extensive. This is a creature that I'm not saying it could. It could of its own power, own eye but the tongue is long enough to at least with help reach the eye of desire.

Speaker 2

Certainly. I've got one image here in the outline, and it looks like a whole can of bubble tape hanging out of the bear's mouth. It's just this long, long, pink thing. So a black bear's tongue is quite long, flexible, and sticky, and a major reason for it to be that way is to help the bear attack difficult to reach food sources. And this this can be I don't know, reaching up to get berries and other stuff. It's not limited to ants, but ants are a big part of this,

attacking ant broods inside nests. So the bear wants to get the ant larvae and the pupet inside the cavities of a rock crevice or a hollow log or a piece of wood. Might chew, you know, chew at a rotten log or piece of wood to get some holes in it, and then kind of stick the tongue in trying to get the ant brewed out. And so I was reading about black bears attacking ant colonies to get at the brood, and I came across a fascinating hypothesis about that on a fact page for the North American

Bear Center. This is relating to the chemical warfare that goes on during these black bear versus ant raids. And so the North American Bear Center page says, quote, when researchers experimentally put their faces next to the bears faces at logs, First of all, that's funny. The researchers jerked away from the acrid cloud of formic acid. Okay, so the ants are producing this formic acid to repel the

attacking bear that's trying to steal all their children. But then this goes on to say, quote, they stood amazed that the bears could keep working. Formic acid is probably and again I want to emphasize this is just a hypothesis. This is not proven. But they say formic acid is probably a reason bears sometimes bite into insulated snowmobile seats,

hot tub covers, and refrigerator walls. Huh, what's going on there? Well, they explain these items all produce formic acid when the formaldehyde in the insulation breaks down, making them smell like ant colonies.

Speaker 1

Huh. That is fascinating.

Speaker 2

So yeah, some industrially produced foams and insulating materials apparently do release these these scents that are reminiscent of the scent of ant chemical warfare. So what the ants would be producing in order to repel and attacking animal like a bear, it and you know, to a hungry enough bear that probably just smells like, well, you know, there's something in there that's good to eat. Another thing that is mentioned in this Besteria entry is quote they attack

beehives and try hard to get honeycombs. There is nothing they sees more eagerly than honey. This one I rule partially true. Hard to say, hard to actually rank the food sources or say, there's nothing that bears like more than honey, but honey is and especially energy dense food, and black bears and brown bears will aggressively pursue honey

resources in their environment. They are partially protected from beastings by their thick fur coat, though they will just also put up with a lot of stings on the face to get at the honeycomb, which it's worth emphasizing is rich with both the sugar dense honey and the fat and protein dense bee broods. So once again we're back

to the hymenopter and brood. Those insect young are like little arthropod sausages, but unlike the ant sausages, which are retrieved through a cloud of chemical warfare, these sausages come preloaded with their own thick sugar syrup. So it's like even better.

Speaker 1

All right, So the bear appreciation for honey is it's a little different compared to the human appreciation for honey. We maybe shouldn't lean too much on Winnie the Poof for understanding it.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, when humans look for honey, they're actually looking usually just for the honey. They're not as much interested in trying to eat the bee broods. Yeah yeah, but okay, we want to come back to the idea of licking the newborns, the stuff that Elayna mentioned in that original email. So here I'm going to read a couple of passages directly from the Aberdeen Library's online translation of the entry

on the bear. First passage says the bear is said to get its name because the female shapes her newborn cub with her mouth or a giving it so to speak. It's beginning or sus ford is said that they produce a shapeless fetus, and that a piece of flesh is born. The mother forms the parts of the body by licking it. The shapelessness of the cub is the result of its premature birth. It is born only thirty days after conception, and as a result of this rapid fertility, it is

born unformed. And then later the entry says, repeating some of the same ideas it says among bears, the time of gestation is accelerated. Indeed, the thirtieth day sees the womb free of the cub. As a result of this rapid fertility, the cubs are created without form. The females produce tiny lumps of flesh, white in color, with no eyes. These they shape gradually, holding them meanwhile to their breasts, so that the cubs are warmed by the constant embrace

and draw out the spirit of life. So, to review the claims here, the bear's pregnancy lasts only thirty days. Newborn bear cubs are shapeless pieces of flesh, white in color, with no eyes. And then the mother licks the flesh lump into shape, giving it limbs, giving it a head, and all the other parts of the body, forming it

with her tongue like a sculptor mold clay. I think most of you can guess correctly that this is not true, but it is interesting to compare to reality because, while literally incorrect, it taps into the spirit of some true facts about bear birth, about dinning, and maternal care in several different bear species. So one of the ideas mentioned here is that the bear cubs are born as these limbless flesh lumps after a mere thirty day pregnancy. That

is not correct, but it does tap into something. So the total pregnancy time for a bear varies bear to bear in species to species, but generally it's going to be a lot longer than thirty days. Nevertheless, bears actually do have an interesting adaptation called delayed implantation, which means that a fertilized embryo will pause its development for months at a time, only implanting in the uterine, lining, and continuing growth if certain timing and metabolic conditions are met.

For example, in the North American black bear, mating typically happens in the spring or early summer, and then you will get a fertilized egg inside the body that will just kind of float in the uterus and it will temporarily halt or at least dramatically slow down its development.

Shortly after fertilization at the blasticist stage, and it doesn't implant and begin differentiated cell growth until late fall or the onset of wintertime, and only then if the mother has reached a sufficient body weight so that she will have the energy resources to survive and sustain a pregnancy and provide milk for offspring born over the winter in the mother's den. The actual period of embryonic development after the pause, again, it varies. It might be like, you know,

two months or something. Maybe maybe up to three months, so like two to three months or something, but the total time between mating and birth is a lot longer, might be more like six to nine months, though it is true, and I don't know if this is the reason for the initial claim that's repeated in the bestiary here. It is interesting that the actual time between the resumption of development here from the blastocyst stage until birth is quite short. It's still longer than thirty days, but it

happens pretty fast. Interesting, and I was just talking about black bears. A similar overall pattern occurs in brown bears, with a few different slight timing differences. Now coming to the idea of the flesh lump, of course, that's not literally correct. Newborn bears of all species do actually have limbs and heads and fully formed individual body parts. But the grain of truth in the flesh lump legend is that newborn bear cubs are highly altricial and extremely small

compared to adults of the same species. Rob, I've got a picture of some grizzly bear cubs for you to look at at here that are adorable, But they're also just so tiny compared to the adult. And they also look I don't know, you know, they're very cute. There's that signal of helplessness in what cuteness is. In a way, so animals that are highly altricial are at one end of a spectrum known as altriciality and precociality. This refers

to how independent an animal is after birth. If a newborn animal is independent, able to use its senses and move around and feed itself shortly after birth, that species is precocial. If the newborn is relatively helpless and needs a lot of parental care to survive, that species is altricial. And it's not a binary, it's a spectrum. You know, you can be somewhere along the spectrum toward one one end or the other. Megapode birds like brush turkeys are

known for being highly precocial. Almost immediately after hatching. The newborn chicks can run around and even fly a bit, They can feed themselves, and they can basically make it on their own. Bears are on the altricial end of the spectrum. They are highly altricial, with tiny, helpless newborns with extremely limited mobility and limited senses. Their eyes are closed for some time after birth, and so bear cubs

need a lot of maternal care to survive. This reality of altricial helplessness lends itself in a way to the idea of a newborn bear as a tiny, formless lump, and the way they look really helps with that as well, because while they are born with limbs and differentiated body parts, their skin and fur tends to be much paler than that of an adult of the same species. The bestiary

text says that they're born as white lumps. They're typically not white, but they might be more kind of a pale gray or a paler gray brown, so they're paler than the adults. Their eyes are closed, and they must nuzzle against their mother for warmth and for nursing. So even if you could somehow see them right after birth, which that takes place inside the mother's winter den, it's kind of hard to see that in nature without some

really special circumstances arising. If you could see them, they would not be up and roaming around on their own. They would be huddling close for warmth and trying to nurse. Some other realities probably contributing to the licking the formless lump myth. Mother bears do lick and then usually eat the birth membrane almost immediately after the cub is born. Mother bears of multiple species also do lick the cubs

right after birth. They've been observed licking the cubs themselves after parturition, and this is a common maternal behavior, not just in bears, but across lots of mammalian species. And I think we can infer some probable survival motivations that would drive the selection of this behavior. First of all, licking after birth helps clean the cubs fur of the wet residual amniotic fluid after birth. So why would this be important cleaning the amniotic fluid off of the fur

and skin. A big reason, probably the biggest reason is thermoregulation. Newborn bear cubs are incredibly tiny compared to adults. Like newborn brown bears are typically at most around a one to five hundredth of the body mass of their mother, and thus they have a very high surface area to body mass ratio. The smaller you are, the harder it is for your body to retain heat to keep the heat inside. So these babies, these baby bears lose heat

much faster than an adult bear. Also, they're usually born in winter during cold weather. Also, they have much less heat insulation in the form of subcutaneous fat and body fur. They've got a lot less fur when they're born than adults have. So newborn bears are at great risk of hypothermia from the moment that they're born. Being coated in amniotic fluid obviously makes that risk a lot worse. By keeping the fur wet and matted down, it makes the bear,

the bear cub subject to evaporative cooling. You know, when you're wet that the the evaporation steals energy from the surface of your body. And to the extent that the newborn bear has any fur, this very some of the different bear species, but they're not going to have a lot of fur, but what fur they have is going to be matted down and matted down and wet, and when it's matted and wet, it's not really going to

work very well as insulation against the cold. So by licking the newborn clean, the mother is actually increasing the cub's ability the cub's ability to retain body heat. A second big thing that I see mentioned in the literature about mother bears licking their newborns is in addition to cleaning cleaning the body, licking of the perenneal or anogenital region is important because that is thought to help stimulate

the cubs to urinate and defecate. In some cases, newborn bears apparently can't poop or pee without external stimulation of the ans and genitals, and at the very least, the licking seems to make that easier. So the mother will lick the nether regions to make the cubs poop and pee, and then we'll often eat the feces after the cubs poop and the den. I thought that was interesting, so I was investigating, like, why eat the poop? This seems

to be often explained as a den hygiene behavior. I can't prove this, but I wonder if a reason for this is that it would help prevent the den from having an excess of smells that would attract predators.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I was thinking about the smell issue earlier, just in terms of say the ambiotic fluid, thinking of non bear mamalion creatures that in which part of the the young's protection is that they are sometimes described as being perhaps smell neutral or having a much less pronounced odor. It could alert predators to their presence.

Speaker 2

Well, yeah, I was thinking about that as well. This is something that again that I have not found proof of, but I was just wondering if smells associated with birth I think would usually signal to predators if they're present, that you are in a vulnerable state and that they're a vulnerable newborns present. And so this did come up. This wasn't in bears, but I was looking at another

study about maternal licking behaviors in mammals in general. Actually this was more about not just licking but general postparturition maternal bonding behaviors, and one of the things that was looking at was licking. And this study reported in the context of rodents that the presence of predator smells. If you pipe in some smells of a predator, that actually increased licking behavior in mother with newborns.

Speaker 1

Oh fascinating.

Speaker 2

Yeah, So that did make me wonder if that it does have something to do with trying to remove smells that might signal prey vulnerability.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and it seems possible, at least to me, that the consumption of the feces here by the mother would perhaps factor into that, because I've read about the reverse the offspring's consumption of the mother's feces in some animals, perhaps having to do with the transfer of the microbiome and so forth. But obviously that wouldn't to my understanding, be the case here.

Speaker 2

Yeah, going the other way, it's harder to see why that would be necessary.

Speaker 1

Yeah. The only other option that immediately comes to mind is remaining nutrients that are still within the fecal matter of the newborns. But ye, which is something you also see in this kind of behavior.

Speaker 2

Yeah, overwintering in the den is also a resource conservation time. Yeah, and there could be other motivations as well, Like in lots of mammals, licking and mutual grooming behaviors promote social bonding. We're already talking about that in part two of the series, and so that might be another thing. There is just part of a social bonding behavior that strengthens the emotional

connection between mother bear and offspring in some animal. In some animals, maternal licking might stimulate autonomic survival functions like breathing and blood flow. So maybe something like that is going on here. But what's absolutely clear is that the

mother bear does lick the baby bear. At least part of this seems to be related to stimulating urination and defecation, and a big part of it, I think it's fair to say, is motivated by cleaning the baby bear to help it thermoregulate, help it retain heat.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but there are a number of things that are just not online yet with the newborn bear, they eventually come online, and part of the process, at least as a observed, is the licking by the mother. Yeah.

Speaker 2

I was actually reading about licking behaviors in bears in a study that was like a this was really interesting.

Speaker 1

It was a.

Speaker 2

Wild den camera study. This was published in the journal Animals in the year twenty twenty by Lynn Rogers and a bunch of co authors. The title was behavior in free living American black bear dens, parturition, maternal care, and cub behavior, and the authors explain their method here. They say, quote, we report here some of the major findings on the behavior of black bear mothers and cubs in their dens in the wild, based on observations in the state of Minnesota, USA.

Wild female bears were outfitted with radio callers and their dens located as they prepared for hibernation in the fall. Cameras were installed in the dens and events in the den recorded until they and their cubs finally abandoned their dens in the spring. So this is amazing. They actually were able to get cameras into wild dens so they could see what the bears were doing in the dens in the wild. This is something that normally is really hard to see. Obviously, you can study captive bears, but

captivity might alter the bear's behavior. It often does, so this study looked at a bunch of different things, but I was interested in the licking behaviors observed. So one thing they documented was the licking of cubs right after birth, started almost immediately, and it does seem to be related to a period where the mothers are trying to warm

and stimulate their newborns. So, to read from the author's results, quote activities were sufficiently visible for three litters born in twenty ten Lily, twenty eleven Lily, and twenty twelve Jewel. These are bear names to determine that the mothers began licking embryonic membranes from the first born cubs within nine

sixteen and eighty five seconds of parturition. On the twenty second of January twenty two twelve, when it was negative eight degrees celsius outside, Jewel licked her first born seventy seven times per minute for six point five minutes before assuming the ventrally recumbent warming position and placing the cub under her sparsely furred chest and belly. In that position, with her head tucked under her chest and her crown against the den floor, she continued licking the cubs dry

while warming them with her breath. So this seems to me to be associated with a licking, clean, drying, and warming behavior after birth, where the mother bear is trying to make sure that the cub is sufficiently kept warm and it's also adorable. The idea of warming her warming the cub with her breath.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

The study also does document another thing I talked about, the licking of the perineal region in what the study calls toilet licking. Okay, that's the name for it. It says in this process they lick, but also the mother's quote ingest the urine and feces to avoid fouling their living quarters. And it says that Lily and Jewel routinely did this, often in response to their cubs cries. And then finally they document one more thing that it seems

like actually totally different. This is not like licking of newborn cubs. But they say, in our quote previous studies in northeastern Minnesota, we have seen cubs, juveniles, and adults touch tongues and engage in reciprocal tongue licking in apparent signs of friendship, but we have not seen these behaviors reported for bears in dens. Reciprocal tongue looking involves bears simultaneously touching and or entwining tongues as they lick each

other in and around the mouth. And then they say the webcams revealed Lily's licking Hope's mouth without Hope reciprocating when Hope was thirty nine, forty one and fifty one days old. However, on March seventeenth, twenty ten, fifty four day old Hope vocalized the pulsing home of suckling for twenty four seconds during a thirty seven second session of reciprocal tongue licking. So, first, mom is trying to do

reciprocal tongue licking with the cub. First few times the cub does not lick back, but then finally the cub does start. They they're now reciprocal tongue licking, and it mentions a couple other examples too. But I don't know, I thought that was interesting. That seems to be maybe another just social bonding thing. I don't know if there's an established reason why they're licking each other's tongues other than just some form of play or bonding.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, it does sound like it could just be bonding.

Speaker 2

Yeah, So that's what I've got on bear locking of newborns for now. But Elena, thank you for writing in on this subject.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. After I read this email and we decided we were going to discuss this on the show, I picked a bear book off of my bookshelf here. It's one that I've referenced in the show before by Wolf Dieter Storrel. He's a German American cultural anthropologist and ethnobotanist.

But he has some interesting little bits about this. He does briefly refer to this idea that we've been discussing about, the bear licking this this this mass into form, and he notes the Franco, German and otherwise Northern European proverbial expression an unlicked bear, which was apparently used historically to describe an unrefined person, like, oh, look at there, whatever they're doing, you know, in breach of etiquette, that person's

an unlicked bear. Also, the idea licked into shape apparently also stems from this idea as well, which is which is one that certainly I'm more familiar with. Loked into shape. That's I mean, that's exactly what we're talking about the bear doing electually. All right, I want to return to a couple of animals that we've already talked about and get into some various beliefs and traditions surrounding them, Starting first with cows, as we discussed in our previous licking episodes.

Cows are big liquors, and when they lick humans, it's sometimes perceived as auspicious or even some manner of good luck. This seems to especially be true in cultures where cattle enjoy sacred status. There's a particular account of how the cattle gathered around fifteenth and sixteenth century Hindu saint Chaitanya Mahapruvu, founder of the Godhea Vishnuism Hindu religious movement, and licked

his body as an act of love. Accounts of cows licking Krishna are also important, I understand in the Hadi Krishna movement or the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, which is itself a modern expression of Godia Vishnuism. Now, in mentioning cowlix, I'm sure a number of you also were instantly reminded that, hey, that's what we call this weird part in our hair that may be difficult to comb

into shape. I have one of these. This is one of the prime reasons I eventually gave up on combing my hair and keep up a more sort of I don't know, ruffled style, if you will, because the cowlick itself is so difficult to manage. The cowlick, of course, is just a pattern of follicle disruption on the human scalp.

Speaker 2

Sort of like going in the opposite direction of the follicles around it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and it kind of looks like I grew up hearing this word cowlick, which I have to made it feel all the more silly and undesirable to have one, because the idea of being lickd by a cow, for me, it felt rather foolish. I think it's a good name, though, because you look at a cow lick a very pronounced cowl like and it does kind of look like some sort of big wet tongue reached out and kind of disrupted. It kind of made like a crop circle.

Speaker 2

In your hair.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah, I do wonder how I might have felt about it if I'd been raised in a culture that saw the actual look of a cow as a potentially auspicious thing unknown. But I was looking around and reading. In some cases these were just like you know, like online conversations people were having about different cultural traditions. But in parts of India, having two cowlcks is considered lucky and or that that child may be a handful and I've read that this tradition like is also found in

other cultures. I was seeing threads where people of Korean descent were talking about this as well, where another case in which two hair licks meant that the child would go on to have two marriages in their life, and if you had more than two, it might mean more than two marriages. So I would be very interested to hear from listeners out there if you have some insight on these, you know, you know, I think generally light hearted interpretations of what a cow lick might mean for someone,

you know, especially as scene in a child. Now, I want to turn from here to Norse traditions, because there is some very important cosmic cow licking that goes on there, as detailed in the twelve to twenty work The pros at A, two entities emerged from the melting of the primordial ice in Neffelheim. The first was, of course, the giant Yemir, but the second was the giant cow Uhumla, and her milk is said to have sustained Yemir. The quote translated, of course, is four milk streams ran from

her teats, and she fed Yeamer. But then, while how's she going to produce this milk, she has to consume something herself. And what she does is she the frost covered salt stones or the salty rhymestones for her own nourishment.

And as she licks them, something interesting happens. Depending on the actual translation, and I think how you interpret it, the rough action of her tongue against the salt stones either uncovers a man, first his hair and then the rest of him, a man perhaps already within the salt stone, kind of like reaching the center of a TUTSI roll pop. Yes, Or she licks the salt stone into the shape of a man, forming the man out of the stone, kind of carving him out of the stone with her tongue,

or something akin to what we were talking about with the bear. The licking by the mammalian mother brings form to the formless, And I think the latter is the more popular interpretation. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Interesting, Yeah, I could imagine how it might be ambiguous if it said something like the cow licked a man out of the stone, setting one loose from the stone, or turning the stone into a man.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I did a quick looking around and surveying. It seems like most scholarly works are discussing it, not in terms of revealing, like you know, the man was in there to begin with, but she's literally forming him out of the stone. So either way though, the individual inside the stone or made from the stone, et cetera, is important because it's this figure Bury or Burr grandfather of Odin and also grandfather of course of Odin's brothers VILLI and V and they become the first gods. They are

the slayers of Yamir. And the earth, of course is going to be born out of this dead giant's bones. So again interesting once more that we have this idea of a mother's licking of a newborn, giving life and perhaps echoing the ideas concerning the bear forming the birth mass into a cup or calf. And I included an illustration of from the pros here, and you can, folks can look this up if you look up the cow in question Odumla on say Wikipedia, you can see this

illustration of the big cow. You see the big tongue there, you see the four streams of milk. And I believe we see the figure being licked from the stone here from the salt stone.

Speaker 2

Oh okay, that's what that is. At first, I thought that was you.

Speaker 1

Mer.

Speaker 2

Yeah, doesn't look happy to be being licked out of the stone. He's got a big grimace on his face, like, oh, brother, I got to live in this world.

Speaker 1

Didn't ask for this, But here we are, all right, And then I want to come back to the world

of dogs. I believe we talked a little bit about dogs licking and also about the idea that a dog's lick would have a healing power to it, and yeah, this was a widespread idea in the ancient world, and we discussed it's it's use in some ma interpretations, and so we have another another chapter of that here to discuss specifically, I want to talk about dog related rituals attributed to the Hittites, an ancient Anatolian Bronze Age empire in what is now Turkey, and there's some bleed over

into some related groups as well. Of note here there's a fair amount of scholarly discussion about the relationship between actual historic Hittites and the people described as Hittites in the Bible.

Speaker 2

Like questioning whether that's actually referring to the same people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I like, are the Hittites that we know from other literature and archaeological evidence. Are they the same as the people called Hittites in the Bible? And there seems to be a fair amount of disagreeance that basically they certainly don't line up one for one, and they may be rather disaligned. But I didn't have time to get into it too deeply in my own research, I see, so I looked at a couple of papers on this.

An older nineteen ninety two were titled The Puppy in Hittie Ritual by Billy Jean Collins, published by the University of Chicago's Institute for the Study of Ancient Cultures, as well as the more recent Puppy Sacrifice in Sinophagi from early Philistine tel Nickney Ekron, contextualized by livtov at All, published in the journal Jamas in twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2

Wait, hold on puppy sacrifice and Sinophagi. That dog eating.

Speaker 1

Yes, so I'm not going to talk as much about dog eating, but I am going to talk a little bit about puppy sacrifice. So I'm not going to get into gross details at all, and not everything I'm going to discuss is going to involve puppies being sacrificed outright, But I totally understand if anyone wants to go ahead and call it here and close this episode out. But trust me that I'm not going to get We're not going to get too gross here.

Speaker 2

Well, I understand. Also my reaction is an unfair dog bias, you know. Well, now, I mean to talk about animal sacrifices of other kinds a lot.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean it's humans have a special relationship with dogs, and you know, even if you're not a dog person, I'm not much of a dog person, but I of course I don't want puppies to be sacrificed. I don't like that idea. Puppies are cute, undeniably, and yeah, and humans and dogs have a special relationship and it's, you know, part of our culture and part of who we are, whether there's one in your house or in your lap or not.

Speaker 2

Let me steal my emotions, and we will. I want to learn about this.

Speaker 1

Yes, So the recent the more. The more recent paper that I reference here concerns a fine in Ekron, historically a Canaanite and then Philistine city, where evidence of a beheaded sacrifice dog dated to twelfth to tenth centuries BC during the Iron Age are discussed, and then the remains here are thought to be tied to the sorts of rights that we'll be discussing here, and in this case, not a funerary rite a quote, non elite domestic right, So in other words, not something that was just done

by you know, for the king and queen, by the king and Queen's you know, you know, wizards or priests, but rather something that would be the part of non elite domestic.

Speaker 2

Life, household magic. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, So essentially this is how the issue breaks down. So we know from literature and archaeological evidence that the Hittites valued dogs as trained herders, as hunters, and as guardians guard dogs, but they also made use of young, as yet untrained dogs, puppies, which they would have ready access to, and they would sometimes be used in cases of magical sacrifice. You know, this kind of part of

this comes back again. This is a culture that prized dogs, but a puppy is untrained, they're around, they're easy to acquire. And this also ties into some of these prevailing eyes ideas that were present in the ancient world. Who've always that we've already referred to that dogs have some sort

of a healing property to them. So the basic idea here is that in specific cases of ritual is that the puppy would serve as a sacrifice in a transfer ritual by which the dog would lick the afflicted human and in doing so absorb that affliction, and then the dog would be ritually sacrificed. So again the tradition here's a link to others who had discussed before the idea that dogs heal via their licking. The ancient Greeks believed in this, and also, according to Collins, would engage in

a kind of transfer ritual of their own. The dog would lick an afflicted individual, absorb the illness, and then the dog would be killed and examined to determine the nature of the human malady. So in the Greek case, not a situation all right, we've driven the illness into the dog, and now we must kill the dog. But rather we've driven the illness into to the dog, and now let us examine the dog to see what the

sickness is, so we can then treat the human. Collins also points out that among the Spartans, dogs were sacrificed by the cult of their god of War, and that it was thought that the lick of a dog could cure blindness, and perhaps related, Hippocrates suggested dog meat as being good for the eyes. Like you having ailments, will

cook up some dog meat that will help. Plenty the Elder also wrote of such uses for the puppy, specifically that a blind puppy, and this is playing off the observation that dogs are born blind much like bears are born blind. As we've discussed, you know, their eyes are not, you know, fully operational and open and so forth, and then by this view, are kind of healed by their

or given sight via their mother's licking. Plenty rights that you could take a blind puppy press it to a sick person's abdomen for three during which the puppy would absorb the illness of the individual and die of said illness. Again, nobody wants the idea of struggling up to a puppy until it dies, but this was one idea that was explored in the ancient world. By the way, Plenty is full of eye wisdom elsewhere in the natural history as well.

Here's a quote in translation. It is said that goats can see by night as well as they can in the daytime, and that consequently a diet of goat's liver restores twilight's sight to persons suffering from what is called night blindness.

Speaker 2

Interesting, Okay, I wonder why the liver, Well.

Speaker 1

You know, that's where most of the goat teness is.

Speaker 2

I mean, does the flavor Yeah, I mean I don't know.

Speaker 1

You know, you can certainly get into the health potential health benefits of eating a mammal's liver, as well as some of the health risks in some animals. So I don't know. It's one of these things that without going actually looking into it in depth, you know, there might be some wisdom to it. There might be something in an animal's liver that would help people with certain maladies. I don't know if it's gonna actually help with night blindness, but there you.

Speaker 2

Are, public service announcement, never read a polar bear's liver exactly.

Speaker 1

Collins also adds that there was a medieval German ritual, and I'm guessing this is sort of like a folk ritual, folk magic, very much domestic in nature, where you could rid yourself a fever or some other ailment by placing a bowl of sweet milk before a dog and reciting the following good luck you hound, may you be sick and I be sound this. I think the rhyme in German would be gossooned and hooned. So the idea is the dog drinks, then the human drinks sickness transferred to

the dog. And I love how this pre germ theory folk ritual actually seems to invert the way that an illness might conceivably be transferred between two participants.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1

So again the Hittites, where we're not standouts in any of their beliefs. Here she references the Hittite ritual of Zui zu Wi in this text, by which a puppy is called on to absorb one's sicknesses. Quote, just as the puppy licks its own nine body parts in the same way, let it lick up the illness in the subject's body parts. And then each part is named, including the butt. Just go through just the whole anatomy and saying, just there's like a chant to it, like a very

much a ritualistic invocation to it. As the puppy then licks the different parts of the human body and brings about healing via transference. Wow. Yeah, And I'm not. I'm not certain that in this particular ritual the dog's death is inherently implied. Elsewhere in Hittite rituals and ideas presented that the dead puppy of some sort of transfer like this could be buried, and in doing so, you are

burying the illness as well. I don't know about you, Joe, but in thinking about this, I was reminded of a topic we've discussed on the show before, the story of Jesus casting the demon Legion into the pigs and then the pigs dying very much an act of transference.

Speaker 2

Yes, always seemed interesting to me. The logic of that in the story, that the demon can't just be removed to go nowhere, it has to be sent into something else. The pigs must be there to receive the demon.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so I detect a certain amount of kinship between these two ideas. Collins also outlines a Hittite apotropaic practice

that does not involve a dead dog. We're going to end on a nice light note here, but this practice is a practice by which a tallow puppy, so kind of like a soap or a candle puppy, was placed in the King and Queen's bedchamber at night to keep evil at bay in the same way that the adult guard dogs, or I think the term that she uses the dogs of the table, and I think this is also referred to in the writings of Homer as well, the dogs of the table being the dogs that hang

around you and eat food scraps that you throw out from under the table. They're also your protectors, but I guess they are not allowed to sleep with you, or they're not in the bedchamber, or maybe they's just a sleep and kind of lousy, or they can't protect against supernatural threats, and therefore you need this magical tallow puppy, the soap puppy that's gonna keep the enemy at bay at night.

Speaker 2

Well, this also reminds me of ancient Mesopotamian traditions we've talked about on the show before, of apotropeic figurines, that you would have a guard figurine some kind of might represent a dema or might represent a kind of like strong human soldier or something like that, a figurine that would protect you in some way, maybe around your bed while you sleep.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, exactly, very much the same thread.

Speaker 2

But here it's c puppy. Yes, all right. Are we done with licking for the time being?

Speaker 1

I think so, unless we get just a really intriguing bit of listener mail, which is always a possibility, So at least conceivably for the time being, we're going to go ahead and close the book on licking. Okay, just a reminder for everyone out there that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast of core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form episodes on

Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. I didn't even get to my film notes. I had some notes about angels licking people's eyeballs and the prophecy three to learn their history, something that I think has no real counterpart in actual folklore and mythology.

Speaker 2

Well maybe not for history learning purposes, but we have talked about gods licking people's eyeballs in Egyptian magic. Yes, probably the whole deal there.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, so it could be it could be related to that. I just don't know that I've ever read anything concerning angels per se. Licking eyeballs, but yeah, there's

likely a connection there. I also had some notes about the other prophecy movie, the nineteen seventy five Bear movie, in which the mutant bear is essentially a partially formless mass, and I had some notes there where I was probably reading too much into all of this, where it's like, is it the idea that instead of the environment is not nurtured by humans, it is polluted by humans, resulting

in mutant bears. There are also some mutant bear cubs in that film as well, But like I say, I'm probably reaching with all of that.

Speaker 2

One of these days, I mean have to see it.

Speaker 1

I don't know. I tried to watch it once. It immediately begins with the death of like nine dogs, so it's a it's a more serious film than Killer Mutant Bear might make you think it's gonna be anyway. That's sorry, That once again stuff to blow your mind. Find us wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe and listen to us whenever you like.

Speaker 2

Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello. You can email us at contact Stuff to Blow Your Mind dot com.

Speaker 1

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Speaker 2

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