From the Vault: Bathysphere, Part 1

though it is from last year. Well, the reason we were rerunning these is because these are deep sea episodes. These are underwater episodes. And uh, I have a a fiction podcast project that's launching on the thirty feet here. Everyone here is so excited. Yeah, yeah, we're all super excited. It's titled Transgenesis. And so it seemed appropriate to feature some stuff to Blow your mind Vault episodes that dealt

with the deep ocean. And this episode, of course, concerns the real history of deep sea exploration, which is a more difficult proposition than you might imagine. In this age of deep sea submersibles and James Cameron and all that, the early deep sea explorers were We're going into some some hairy stuff. Yeah, this is this is a weird odyssey, uh that we explore with the bathosphere. Uh. So join us for this vault Vault episode and the next vault episode.

And if you wanted to get a taste of Transgenesis before it comes out, head on over to Transgenesis Dot Show. We hope you enjoyed this vault episode of stuff to blow your mind. On the Earth at night in moonlight, I can always imagine the yellow of sunshine, the scarlet of invisible blossoms. But here, when the searchlight was off, yellow and orange and red were unthinkable. The blue, which

filled all space admitted no thought of other colors. The return trip was made in forty three minutes, an average of one foot every two seconds. Twice during the ascent I was ware of one or more indefinite large bodies moving about at a distance. On the way down. I had accredited them to an over excited imagination, but after having the experience repeated on several deep dives, I am sure that I did see shadowy shapes of large and

very real living creatures. What they were I can only guess and live in hopes of seeing them closer on some future descent. What this great creature was I cannot say. A first and most reasonable guests would be a small whale or blackfish. We know that whales have a special chemical adjustment of the blood which makes it possible for them to dive a mile or more and come up without getting the bends. So this paltry depth of two thousand, four hundred and fifty feet would be nothing for any

similarly equipped cetacean. Or less likely, it may have been a whale shark, which is known to reach a length of forty feet. Whatever it was, it appeared and vanished so unexpectedly and showed so dimly that it was quite unidentifiable, except as a large living creature. Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from. How stuff weren't dot Com? Hey, Welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm jere McCormick. And Robert, what were

those readings from? Uh? Those were the words of William Beebe in his biography half Mile Down, Half Mile Down. William Beebe was an American naturalist who lived from eighteen seventy seven to nineteen sixty two, and he was a

fabulous writer, he was. Yes, we were talking about this a little bit before we went on area we have we have I guess two major areas to look to his biography Half Mile Down, which was certainly aimed at more of a general public audience, but even in his writings to a scientific audience, I admire the sort of directness and clarity of his writing. I was looking at a report of his from his underwater expeditions that he delivered in proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in

the nineteen thirties, and it's wonderfully written for a scientific paper. Yeah, I was. I was reading so many of these accounts whilst listening to some ambient electronic music, and it really I was getting chill bumps at times when he's talking about descending into the dark and seeing these various bioluminescent creatures uh come into his line of vision, creatures that had had never been seen before, and in some cases as well discussed creatures that have not been seen or

captured since. Now that is spooky. So, Robert, tell me, what does the main thing about William BB's career we're gonna be focusing on today. Well, we're gonna be talking about the Bathisphere, the bathisphere, which is Greek for deep sphere, which was the which this was these basically the submersible deep ball, the deep ball that that he used on the just groundbreaking trips into the deep. Because prior to this, uh,

this was in the nineteen thirties. Prior to this, subs could only get down about three hundred and eighty three feet or a hundred and sixteen meters or so, and uh and armored dive suits were only good for about five twenty five ft or a hundred and sixty But the Bathosphere reached an astonishing three thousand and twenty eight feet or nine two points. That record was set in nineteen thirty four, and it remained the record till nineteen

forty nine. And that record was set by William Beebe and his collaborator Otis Barton, who together did many dives in the steel ball, going deep into the depths off Bermuda and in starting in nineteen thirty. So we'll tell the story of the Bathosphere more as we go on, but I guess first we should talk about why why

are we doing the Bathosphere today? How did this come up? Well, I mean on one hand, it's it's a perfect topic because it deals with the ocean and the deep mysteries of the ocean, which we come back around to again and again on stuff to blow your mind. I've been working on a lot lately, A lot, Yeah, a lot. And part of that is due to I do have a side project I've been working on here at work

that does concern uh, deep sea themes. Also, I've recently finished reading Peter watts novel Starfish, which is a wonderful sort of cyberpunk sci fi novel from several years back that takes takes place in the deep ocean. Peter Watts the author of blind Side, Yes, but he wrote Starfish many years before. Correct. Yeah, this was his first big splash.

You could say, uh and then uh and then also Joe, you and I recently attended the exhibit Unseen Oceans at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, which is running March twelfth, two thousand eighteen, through January six, two thousand and nineteen. This was a really cool special exhibit. I really liked it, and it got into a thing that's really hard to explain in a in an interesting way, but it did it. It got into the character of plankton,

like making you feel that like plankton has personality. There are different types of plankton, and those types matter and their interesting, Like there are even these tiny zeno moreph some plankton. Yes, it's easy to I feel like we we often have this sort of science biology textbook approach to plankton where they are a little more than a little side note at the beginning, and it's just like, these are these are small creatures. Don't worry about them.

Larger or more interesting creatures eat them. But of course they're they're extremely vital and uh. And when you start keying in on individual plankton specimens, there is this rich diversity. Uh, it's on par with anything you would find in other regions of the animal kingdom. I mean, in a very real way. They're sort of the ground floor of the entire biosphere. And so you do find not only just sort of interesting but also forgettable preycare creatures. You find

fascinating predators and parasites. But another great thing about this exhibit is that it tells the story of people who have tried to illuminate the depths of the ocean. I mean, we we see Nature documentary is showing us footage of what happens under the sea. And because you've seen that footage, now you might have this sense like, Okay, we finally figured out what the oceans are, like, we know what's down there. It's you know, it's it's finally conquered territory.

And in many ways it is, it has been and still remains the most mysterious thing about planet Earth. It is not conquered territory. There's so much we haven't seen

and we don't know about the deep oceans. Yeah, and and you know that one of the interesting things, one of the one of the reasons we're talking about William Beebe here today is that when you think about pioneers in deep sea exploration, unless this is a topic that you've read extensively about before or whatnot, and some of the key names that come to mind are probably Jacques Cousteau, right, And indeed, Jacques Cousteau did a lot uh in the

area of exploring our season, popularizing our understanding of the seas. He's one of those figures that I think many people of our generation actually know more directly from parody of him. Than they know from him himself. Well maybe for for today's like younger generations, but but he had a long running television series narrated by Rod Serling. Oh yeah, well, I just mean that, I know, I grew up not

really knowing anything about Jacques Cousto himself. But I saw a countless cartoon and puppet French accent, you know, underwater explorer type characters that were I don't mean like they were attacking Jacques Custo, were making fun of him, But I don't know, he seemed like a very parodyable character in American culture, right. And of course today we have James Cameron, who who's whose contribution to deeps exploration is

a is is real? Yeah. Um but but but as as far as William Beebe goes in the bathosphere, like, this is a story that I feel isn't as celebrated in pop culture. It's it's it's certainly remembered in in his story of marine biology and our exploration of the seas. I mean, it's not it's not something that's forgotten. Before

we did this exhibit, I knew pretty much nothing about this. Yeah. Yeah, but I think where I started really discovering it was was in reading Starfish, in which Peter Watts makes several mentions of PB and his contributions and his sightings, not just a quick note. This is going to be a two parter. We started recording it and we were just

going way too long. So we went ahead and made the decision let's cut it into UH and UH and spread it out over the course of a week instead of dropping like a nearly two hour episode right in your lap. Well, I mean there's a lot of deep sea out there, right, that's right. I can't blame us for talking forever on that. Yeah, and we're only scratching the surface on it. Well, maybe the best understand Bob's contributions.

It helps to turn our eyes to the past and to look at what humanities knowledge of the deepest parts of the ocean, or even not the deepest, even the deeper parts of the ocean was like before the Bathosphere expedition, and so what we knew and what the process of exploring the deep sea was like. So Robert, will you come along with me to the age of sea monsters? Yes, yes,

here they'd be dragons. So, given how little we know about the deep ocean, just think about how mysterious the depths were before just about a hundred years ago, or in even earlier times when less was known about biology in general, that you could extrapolate to the deep ocean, when stories of sea monsters the size of whole islands rising out of the out of the deep was really not out of the realm of possibility. That's something I'd like to emphasize. It was not just fanciful to imagine.

Back then, you had no reason necessarily to doubt stories of sea monsters, right, yeah, I mean because ultimately, what did we know of the of the depths or even the greater expanses of the sea. We did not know about whole continents out there, so uh, it would seem entirely poss well, you would have giant sea creatures, and in fact, we saw giants sea creatures in the forms of of spouting whales and various carcassus occasionally drift up

to shore exactly right. So, most of the time in human history was a time when people could not look beneath the ocean. They didn't they didn't really have any idea other than what sailors might have said they saw coming up to the surface. Every now and then. But that was just a peak, that was just what came up to the surface. I mean, what's deep down there? Who the heck knows. So one example of the kinds of beliefs that used to be so plausible about the

creatures that lived in the deep. I want to reference a passage that's quoted in Chet van Deuser's book Sea Monsters on Medieval and Renaissance Maps, which Robert, this is a book you loaned me and it's fantastic. Oh yeah, this is what. This is a wonderful book, wonderful content, and there's so many rich illustrations from these old maps. Yeah, they're they're wonderful. Now. Originally this quote is from the Knuskusa or the King's Mirror, which is a thirteen injury

old Norse educational text. So it's got it's written in the form of a dialogue, and it's got characters talking to each other about things in the world, and we come to this passage talking about marine life. So here it is quote there is a fish not yet mentioned, which it is scarcely advisable to speak about on account of its size, which to most men will seem incredible.

There are moreover, but very few who can tell anything definite about it, inasmuch as it is rarely seen by men, for it almost never approaches the shore or appears where fishermen can see it. And I doubt that this sort of fish is very plentiful in the sea. In our language it is usually called the kraken. I can say nothing definite as to its length in els, for on those occasions when men have seen it, it has appeared

more like an island than a fish. Nor have I heard that one has ever been caught or found dead. It seems likely that there are but two in all the ocean, and that these beget no offspring, for I believe it is always the same ones that appear. Nor would it be well for other fishes if they were as numerous as other whales, seeing that they are so

immense and needs so much food. It is said that when these fishes want something to eat, they are in the habit of giving forth a violent belch, which brings up so much food, that all sorts of fish in the neighborhood, both large and small, will rush up in hopes of getting nourishment and good fair. Meanwhile, the monster keeps its mouth open, and inasmuch as its opening is about as wide as a sound or fiord, the fishes

cannot help crowding in great numbers. But as soon as its mouth and belly are full, the monster closes its mouth and thus catches and shuts in all the fishes that just previously had rushed in eagerly to seek food. Oh wow, that is a fabulous description. Yeah, and that's an amazing hunting strategy. Yeah, I offhand, I can't think of a real world organism that actually employs something like that. Well,

there's sort of, um, there are versions in much smaller scales. Now, obviously you've got like the snapping turtle with the fake worm lure in its mouth and it will wait for the fish to sneak in to get the food and then clamp shut. But those artificial lures, right, But what we have here is like this creature has eaten so much sea life and then it vomits that sea life up, which brings in greater populations of sea life, which it then it just then just sucks all of that down. Yeah.

But I want to emphasize again, this sounds ridiculous to us, but we're living after Darwin. We know a lot more. We're living after Darwin, and we're living after you know, submarines going down and looking at well, what kind of sea life is there? Really, we still don't know a whole lot, but we know enough that this doesn't seem plausible. But if you were armed with only what an educated Norwegian courtier knew about deep sea life in the thirteenth century,

how would you argue against these accounts? Indeed? And uh, you know this is there's another point that chet VanDuzer makes in his book is that like in the ancient world, it was it was often assumed that anything that existed on the surface likely had a counterpart beneath the waves and the mirror world. And I mean the names stick with us, the sea lion, the sea cow, sea cucumber, I guess the sea cucumber two but to see Hamburger.

But basically, when you start looking at all these fabulous beasts, and I think we alluded to this a little bit in our Aquatic Humanoids episode episodes, Uh, you find all these various just ridiculous sea dogs, et cetera. Literally the idea that whatever we have here there must be a counterpart beneath the waves, and I mean to a certain extent, there's there's a bit of truth in that, just the idea that that whatever diversity we have on the surface,

that diversity must be represented beneath the waves. But of course, in reality it's even it's even greater than that. The vast majority of the planet's biodiversity is in the ocean. Well, yeah, there's just so much ocean and there are so many ecological niches to fill within it. All right, we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll jump right back in. Thank Thank alright, we're back now. Of course, as we've said that, over time, there has been this steady increasing

catalog of some knowledge about undersea life. There's still a lot we don't know, but we know a lot more than we used to. And one of the earliest major explorations of marine biology was that of Aristotle in the fourth century BC. In his Biology or This History of of Animal Life, Aristotle got a lot wrong, like, for example, he said the octopus is a stupid creature, for it will approach a man's hand if it be lowered in the water. Now, on the other hand, Aristotle, for his time,

if you consider his limitations, got an astonishing amount. Right. For example, he correctly determined that whales and dolphins were not fish, and he made lots of other extremely astute classifications. So, uh filed this away under Aristotle occasionally says things that sound dumb to us, but was not dumb. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like we've hashedne this before on other topics. Uh. From our advantage point, it's easy to to say, ah,

you really screwed that up Aristotle. But really, given what he had to work with, his his understanding of the natural world was amazing. Yeah, I just mean think about Aristotle's the research methods available to him now. A lot of what he did he probably he probably got a lot of information by like talking to fisher folk and stuff like that. But he also I think some people have said, you know, it really looks from some of his statements like Aristotle performed dissections, so he must have

had some access to specimens. And it's not so easy to always get specimens in the ancient world, Like how how do you collect them? You just like throw some nets and hope you get some good stuff. Yeah, especially this is especially important considering that you have other historians and writers of the ancient world who were very much going on second, third, and fourth hand accounts of what was going on elsewhere in the world. And and and that's where we see some of these more ridiculous notions

of of even terrestrial monsters and creatures. Totally, it's like it's through a glass darkly on in like four ways, right, So you're getting it second hand. You know that you heard a story from somebody who heard a story who also was not really beneath the waves when he or she saw this thing, but just saw something poke up from the surface. I mean, there's so many levels of removed from the actual biological reality that it's not hard to understand where these myths about sea monsters come from.

So to explore the idea of ways of understanding the deep sea, like the research methods available to us before recent times, and like the invention of modern technology like sonar and other stuff. Uh, there were I want to say they were basically two broad methods for studying the deepest parts of the ocean, and for a little mythological flare. I want I want to give them some mythological names

to help us keep them organized. So one I want to call the Ebisu method, So Ebisu is the Japanese luck odd, often depicted as a jolly fisherman with a bright red bream on his line. He's always got a fishing pole. So the Ebissue method is to use some kind of method to pull creatures up from the deep to the surface so you can study them go fishing basically, okay.

And the other one I want to call the Gilgamesh method, because Gilgamesh, of course, is the protagonist of the four thousand year old Mesopotamian work known as the Epic of Gilgamesh. And if you'll recall from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the second half of the story Gilgamesh, he gets obsessed with finding the secret of eternal life. And in Tablet eleven, he receives a tip that there is a plant at the bottom of the ocean covered in prickling thorns, which if you pull it up from the ocean old grant

you eternal life. And so, to read from the Andrew George translation quote, heavy stones he tied to his feet, and they pulled him down to the ocean below. He took the plant and pulled it up and lifted it. The heavy stones he cut loose from his feet and the sea cast him up on its shore. So the idea is Gilgamesh, he weighs himself down, he goes to the very bottom of the ocean, he cuts up this plant,

and then he cuts himself loose. So the Gilgamesh method, I'm going to say, is to dive as deep as you can into the dark world and see what you can see. But of course you also have to be able to come back and report what you've seen. Right, Not not all of us are Gilgamesh. Right, it seemed like he could hold his breath for a long time and withstand some crushing compression. They probably didn't necessarily understand at the time, But so people have been accidentally practicing

versions of the Ebisome method for thousands of years. Right. So of course the easiest thing is that sometimes dead organisms from the deep sea will wash up on the shore in various states of decomposition, and people could look at that and say, oh, I wonder what this is.

But we still see this all the time. I feel like only a few months will go go go by before there's another, uh weird dead thing that's washed upon the beach, and various websites will will start speculating as to what it was, and generally they'll say, Oh, it's probably unsty, it's probably a dinosaur. I mean, I'm torn because I I love a good beach monster and I hate the Daily Mail, and the latter is the best place to go for the former you you will always get.

The beach monster is interpreted in various ways. But I mean, beach monster is a wild grotesque and often classified as monsters that don't really exist. Can show us some things about the deep ocean. Uh. The other thing would be accidental ebisume method practicing just through fishing. People are throwing nets in order to catch some fish to eat, but

they pull up something interesting by accident. Now, whether you're practicing the this method on purpose or by accident, there are definitely limits to what you can learn through it, and will explore some of those limits in a bit. One surprising thing to learn is that, according to some reports, ancient people's actually did practice versions of the Gilgamesh method

as well. So, going back to Aristotle in his three sixty BC work Problem Atam or the Problems, Aristotle actually gives the earliest description I'm aware of of deep diving technology. And so this is going to be a version of the diving bell. And he's talking about divers who fish for sponges on the sea floor, and he discusses all kinds of weird practices these divers used to make the deep more tolerable, and these include fastening sponges around their ears,

or cutting slits in their own ears and nostrils. And in this section, Aristotle writes that quote. In order that these fissures of sponges may be supplied with a facility of respiration, a kettle is let down to them, not filled with water, but with air, which constantly assists the submerged demand. It is forcibly kept upright in its descent in order that it may be sent down at an equal level all around, to prevent the air from escaping

and the water from entering. Now, if you never like played this game in the bath as a kid, you can make a simple diving bell just by taking a cup or a bowl or something and turning it upside down and then pressing it straight down into the water and not letting it wobble. And what it'll do is it will keep a bubble of air trapped underneath the cup. And you could if you were a tiny diver, swim up in there or stay in there and breathe down

at the bottom. But this comes with a lot of risks, right like if it gets tipped over slightly, the air can escape and uh, and of course you're still going to be dealing with all kinds of weird pressure problems. Yeah, this is this is one of those things that we we all experiment with in the bathtub. I feel I've observed I've observed my my son doing this as well, but he has not reached the conclusion, hey, why don't

we take one of these to the ocean. But I can I can imagine that this idea has been around as long as we've had bowls, essentially as long as we've had even just coconut husks or something to that effect. Yeah, it's hard to know for sure because Aristotle doesn't make it clear who invented this technique, and he doesn't make it clear how long it's been around or how common it was. He just mentions that some divers can do this, So we don't know where it comes from or how

far it was taken in the ancient world. But here is a really weird connection. I came across. According to medieval legend, Aristotle's student Alexander the Great was his own kind of great undersea adventurer and pioneer of the school of Gilgamesh. Robert, had you ever come across the Alexander the Great as deep sea explorer before? I don't believe I had, though the William Beebe makes reference to it

in his book Half Mile Down. Yeah. Uh. So. There are a lot of versions of this legend, and and to be very clear, these are pretty much definitely false. Maybe some versions of them are inspired by something that roughly happened, but but as told, they're definitely false. So the oldest version I think is the one about how while Alexander the Great was laying siege to the city of Tear in Lebanon, he had divers swimming underwater to

either remove or to put in place boom defenses. And a boom defenses something you would put in in a harbor or a channel, that's like a huge chain or object that you would place underwater to prevent the passage of ships. It recalls something Terry and Lanister does in the Battle of Blackwater Bay. Remember that I don't remember that. I remember all the fire obviously, but I don't remember

the use of chains too. Yeah, in the book, he puts a big chain across the water and this prevents the ships from getting past, And this is an actual technique. So in some versions of the story, I think Alexander is trying to get rid of boom defenses, and some of he's trying to put them in place. But in

any case, he's got divers working for him. And in one version of the story, written by a seventh century Arab historian and quoted in the History of Underwater Exploration by Richard F. Marks, Alexander wants to go underwater, either to help with this task or to see how it's coming along. So he has his workmen build him a huge wooden box with glass windows that are sealed with

resin and wax to keep the water out. And then the room at this box is weighed down with iron and lead and stone and then lowered into the water between two ships, with Alexander and a couple of his secretaries inside the box. And then from inside this sealed room they can look out the glass windows and see what's happening deep underwater in the ocean quote. Thanks to the transparency of the glass and the limpidity of the water.

Alexander and his two companions were able to see the marine monsters and a species of demon having the head of a ferocious beast attached to a human body. Some of them carried axes, others saws, and still others hammers, so they looked like workman. Alexander and his two secretaries drew careful pictures of these monsters. Then they pulled the line, and at this signal, the men on the ships drew up the case. The king stepped out and was carried

back to Alexandria. Well, you know, hearing that, I I feel that Alexander deserved to be frightened a little bit, since he was really kind of micromanaging on all this. He really should have learned to delegate a bit more. Well, what I like about the story is that it does imply some kind of scientific observation. It's just observation of demons instead of real wildlife. But there's actually there are

other funny versions of this. There's a totally different version of Alexander as Gilgamesh that I came across in this illustrated manuscript. It's an early fifteenth century German manuscript telling a story of how Alexander goes down to the bottom of the ocean and a diving bell and he trusts so this would be not a not an encased room with glass windows, but like a regular diving bell. So a bell upturned in the water that's got an air

bubble in it. And he goes down and uh. He entrusts his loyal mistress to watch over the chain that can pull the bell back up to the surface. And unfortunately, while she's watching the chain, her lover gets her to run off with him and abandoned Alexander and throw the chain into the sea. Not good for alex I like the theme of this though, because it basically it portrays Alexander the Great is indeed a great individual who can do great things and go places that no other man

can go. But in doing so, there's a there there's there's an inherent weakness. Well, use this technology, it's not just like magic super strength. He can swim to the bottom of the ocean. He builds a technological marvel to get him down there, but in doing so he neglects his mistress. Right, Yeah, and I've got an illustration here, Robert. You can look at that's got alex down in this

in this bubble. He's looking very unhappy. He's got a big mustache, and he appears to be frowning and scowling at the surface where his mistress and her lover are cavorting in this ship. And then meanwhile in the background there are these gigantic fish swimming by that I guess he's not even noticing because he's angry. Yeah, and but at least they do look like real fish and not

visions from hell. I believe the example that the William Beebe draws on is the idea that uh that that Alexander the Great uh observes a fish that is so large that it takes days for it to pass him by. So another equally outrageous uh or perhaps just uh exaggerated example of what life might be underwater. And that's the feeling I'm getting from all of these accounts. It sounds like less an example of, Hey, somebody went underwater and they saw this, but more of almost like a science

fictional scenario. What would it be like if I could go underwater and see the things that are down there? And then to build that I have to base it on what do I believe exist under the water? Well, I would say much in the same way that the science fiction of space encouraged people to become real astronauts

and want to explore. I think maybe some of this ancient and medieval science fiction about the underwater realms may have inspired people to want to actually build real diving bell technology and go down there, and that that is what have been really happened. Genuine scientific interest in the ocean depths and the real use of diving technologies like the diving bell showed up again in more recent decades, specifically starting around the sixteenth century. You you start to

see people messing with diving bells. How deep can we go? Uh? Some of this was just for purely commercial reasons, like people wanted to salvage shipwrecks and get rich and all that, but also there was a genuine spirit about of exploration about the deep ocean, to get down there and see what you could see. But of course, as we mentioned, diving bells have a lot of limitations. All right, on that note, we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're gonna discuss the the pre bb

world of deep sea exploration. Just a little bit more. Thank you. Thank alright, we're back. So we've talked about ancient investigation into the nature of the deep sea, both real and mythological, in the form of the Ebisum method like fishing, pulling things up and seeing what they're like, and the Gilgamesh method diving down and seeing what you

can see yourself. And in the nineteenth century, the Ebba zoom method, by way of the biological dredge, was very popular for naturalists, zoologists, socianographers, all these people trying to understand what existed in the hidden deep. And one practitioner of this method, the biological dredge, was the British naturalist Edward Forbes. Now Forbes was a naturalist from the Isle of Man. He was reportedly a very likable dude. People

people took a shine to him. But in in eighteen forty one, Edward Forbes was on a journey aboard a surveying ship called the h MS Beacon in the Mediterranean Sea and during this voyage they would dredge the water. So what you have to imagine there is like a bag or a bucket type contraption that you would drag along the bottom of the ocean from behind a ship, and then when you drag it along and scoop some stuff up, then you'd pull it back up and see

what you caught. All right. I have conducted the very same sort of investigation in the surf with my son. Just drag a bucket, get a bunch of sand, and then you dump it out and see what you manage to catch. And sometimes you do find an interesting organism. Yeah, what have you found that way? Oh? They are we always call them sand fleas, but they're not actual sand fleas.

They're little isopods. I can't remember this specific species name offhand, but depending on the sort of on the Florida beach you go to, you can find a number of these. Aren't they the jumping ones? They don't jump. They burrow really quickly, so basically, if you if you are able to scoop underneath them, they can't dig away from you. Oh, I see. And then most of them are really small, but you can find something that are the size of really like the size of your thumb. They're pretty fun.

That's cool, though, I thought you were referring to things I have actually seen that. I don't know if their fleas or what I should look up what these organisms are. One time we were up on the northwest coast, I believe, a beach in Oregon, and the beach was just covered in what appeared to be jumping fleas. There these little like white, pale fleas that would jump all over you. It was kind of horrible. Yeah, and I think I

believe those more accurately sand fleas. And for whatever reason, and I have talked to other it wasn't just my family, I've talked to other people, and I've asked him, well, what did you call these things when you were a kid going to the beach, and the like, Oh, yeah, we call those sand fleas. So but again they're they're more technically a variety of issopod. Well, Forbes was playing this game, the Drag the Bucket game at much much deeper than just in the surf and catching much more

than just sand fleas. So Forbes noticed though, as you play this game, as you you go through the Mediterranean Sea on the beacon dredging the bottom that as you move deeper and deeper into deeper waters, the dredge came up with fewer types of organisms. So you can see where the reasoning probably went from there right, the lower down you go, the less life there is. So extrapolating from his observations, in eighteen forty three, Forbes proposed what came to be known as the abyssess theory or the

a zoic hypothesis. And this specifically said that below three hundred fathoms, which is about five hundred and fifty meters or eighteen hundred feet, the oceans were completely dead. Now this makes a certain kind of sense, right, Like a lot of false hypotheses, it has this sense of truthiness, It feels right, and other contemporary scientists backed Forbes up.

So I'm going to quote from an eighteen sixty three text book by the Scottish geologist David Page, in which pages discussing the powerful compression effects of vast amounts of water. So he explains that at four thousand fathoms, the pressure of the ocean would be about seven hundred and fifty atmospheres,

and he considers that just intolerable. Quote at vast depths. Therefore, it is generally supposed that vegetable and animal life has known to us could not possibly exist, And though some recent soundings of the North Seas at the depth of one thousand, two hundred and sixty fathoms would seem to

oppose this opinion. Yet the paucity and uncertainty of these trials leave the question still in doubt, and we may, in the meantime adhere to the general belief that the extreme depressions of the ocean, like the extreme elevations of the land, are barren and lifeless solitudes. All right, So in this case, he's drawing upon just the idea that the water pressure would be too great for life as

we know it to exist. I mean truthie, right, Like, if you're under seven fifty atmospheres, couldn't possibly be a thing to survive? That? Right? Okay, yeah, I can I can see where that that idea could had a certain amount of truthiness to it. Uh. Now, certainly we know that that that that the sunlit portions of the ocean,

that that's where most of the life is. That is where that's where you encounter all of the plankton, the creatures that feed upon the plankton, uh, creatures that depend upon the sunlight, and then the creatures that consume those organisms. That is going to be found in the upper ocean. But another thing they could have reasoned, is I wonder what happens to all those organisms in the sunlit area

when they die? And then if they're gonna if they're gonna be packing some good chemical energy with them after they die, wouldn't something want to take advantage of that exactly? And then you you also have to begin to say, well, if everything is, if all the life is up here in the sunlit ocean, then isn't the dark ocean? Isn't that a great place to say, go hide out? Is it a great place just maybe set up as your main base of operations? Right? So, really, this hypothesis should

have been a nonstarter. Forbes was completely wrong, uh, since many dredging experiments had already at the time of Forbes caught life forms from depths of below three fathoms. Page alludes to this. Nevertheless, it was supported by some for several decades, but later biologists and oceanographers eventually just beat this zombie down like that. It didn't survive all that much longer. And one of the many researchers to assist in knocking down the zombie a zoic hypothesis was the

Scottish naturalist Charles Wyville. Thompson, and in an eighteen seventy three report called The Depths of the Sea, Thompson published the results of his own dredging expeditions in the seas north of Scotland. So, while dredging to a depth of six d and fifty fathoms, he discovered all kinds of

invertebrate organisms that Forbes had missed. And I'm not sure of the reason, but one thing I've read that may or may not be true is that later investigators had better dredging equipment than Forbes, which was less likely to spill the things it caught on the way back up to the surface. You can imagine this would be a problem. You're like trying to pull up the stuff you caught, and it's just like going all over the place. Yeah, your bucket isn't big enough for You're not handling the

bucket properly and run into all sorts of problems. Now. Thompson would also go on to head up one of the most important oceanographic research expeditions of all time about the deep sea, which was the Challenger Expedition beginning in eighteen seventy two, which did a lot of stuff. It's circumnavigated the globe on a ship called the HMS Challenger, and it collected an absolute wealth of scientific observation, much of which is still relevant today. They catalog more than

four thousand new species. They did soundings in the ocean all over the world and came up with the general shape of Earth's ocean basins. And they discovered ocean features like the mid Atlantic Ridge and the Challenger Deep, which is of course named for the expedition. But still as wonderful as all this knowledge was, there were still limits imposed by the fact that they were using what we what I've been calling the EBB zoom method. They're they're

pulling stuff up from the bottom. Like imagine trying to study the Amazon rainforest by flying over it in an airplane and dragging a bucket along the forest floor behind you, and then reeling it up and seeing what you've got

in the bucket. Like, you see some problems already, but also a factor in the differences in the conditions of the deep ocean and the surface where we want to study the things we pull up from the bottom, that that's a problem too, Right, You've got massive changes in light, in temperature, which is a big one and in pressure, and so maybe a better analogy is like imagining an alien adallite studying us by scooping us up in a net and then pulling us up into outer space to

have a look. Right. Sometimes organisms dredged up from the deep ocean can be kept alive if you keep them refrigerated, but other times they're just going to be killed or even reduced to google in the process of removing them from their natural environment. One interesting fact is that many deep secret creatures are actually able to withstand lower pressure

on the surface, and others are not. For example, I found a blog post by a marine biologist named Dr Craig McClain who wrote, quote, I've tried to collect a particularly gelatinous red sea cucumber several times. Each time at the surface. When I pulled a collection canister off the r o V, the canister is filled with thick red kool aid, which I presume is the remains of the red sea cucumber. So there are these limitations to the

ebissue method. If you want to keep pulling stuff up from the bottom to study it at the top, you're always going to have a sort of cap on what sorts of scientific progress you're able to make. So would there ever be a better way to study the deep other than these incredibly dangerous and limited power diving bells? What a true Gilgamesh method arise? Ah, well, Joe, a true Gilgamesh will arise, But he's gonna have to wait till next episode because I think we're out of time

here today. So that is going to be the next episode where we primarily discussed the bathosphere and the work of William bb correct. But yeah, before we close out today, I just want to try to imagine what it's like to be in an oceanographer or a marine biologists mindset before we get to the bathosphere. Leaving off at the end of everything we've discussed today, right, so, you you've

been stuck on the surface of the water. You just can't really dive down and see what's beneath the ocean yourself, or at least not very well, and so you're you're limited to these methods of dragging buckets along or trawling with nets, or trying to scoop stuff up from the from the sea floor. What what is that like to have, like not have a cess to all of this life that you want to study and and always performing these kind of like random samplings is the only way to

get at it. Yeah. And then even as these various technologies do come on online, which I alluded to earlier, you you don't have the ability to really get into the depths. There are depths of the ocean that are just beyond your ability to venture into. Yeah, and you can't. You can't explore and see it the way it's supposed to be, right, or I mean supposed to be the

way it naturally is. To study, you must destroy if you're going to be sampling in the ebissue method, right, and but then how do you explore it yourself without destroying yourself? Essentially? And that that is where the bathmosphere comes in next time on Stuff to Blow your Mind, It's almost like nature doesn't want us to explore the

deep sea. Yeah, it's almost like it's a warning or it's almost like we're we're fragile flesh creatures that have have evolved only to thrive within a very slim portion of our own environment. Uh. So hey, we're gonna we are going to leave you now. Uh. If you want to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, Dot com, many of which have involved the ocean, in many cases the deep ocean. Then you can find them there. You also find blog post links out to our various

social media accounts as well. Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producers Alex Williams and Tory Harrison. If you would like to get in touch with us to let us know feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for a future episode, or just to say hi, you can email us at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com a bit peas three twenty four twin four propo