Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert.
Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And hey, if you're watching on video, obviously we are not in our normal places, not coming to you from the Gray Matt underworld or the other world, I can't remember what we decided to call it, the places we usually come from. Today we are recording remotely at the studio at Baja Mar because they are a sponsor of this episode.
That's right, we're in the Bahamas. I made a point of walking in the sand on the beach before I came in here today because we are going to be talking about sand. I kind of like to tie these kind of things together when there's some travel involved. I'm also you can't see it, but I am wearing flip flops. It felt appropriate. It felt like Jimmy Buffett would want me to wear flip flops for this recording, so I honor his spirit in doing so.
Stuff on a pop top.
Yet fortunately not and you don't want to engineer that. That's you know, it ruins the magic of it, of course. Yeah, So yeah, we're going to talk about sand here today, and I think sand is a great topicause in in general, I think a lot of people have certain feelings about it, you know, in the imagination, but also very personal opinions about sand. I don't know about you, Joe. I enjoy the sand. I don't like sand where it's not supposed to be. But I like going into a region of sand,
experiencing the sand. I like the feeling of walking on a beach and feeling it, you know, move beneath my toes, getting the different consistencies of sand. I like digging in the sand. But I also know plenty of people who are like an absolute no to beach time because they just don't like sand. I mean, Star Wars memes aside, They just they just don't like it.
And it goes everywhere I feel about the sand the way I feel about sweat, which is I like being sweaty when you're supposed to be sweaty, and I hate being sweaty when you're not supposed to be sweaty. There you go, you know, working up a sweat when you're exercising feels great. Working up a sweat when you're like getting dressed ready to go out somewhere is like the worst feeling. Yeah, and sand. Yeah, it's like when you're at the beach, there's nothing better. Actually, I like, literally
I love the feeling. Most of what I do at the beach when I go is just like walk around and feel the sand.
On my feet.
Yeah that's you know. I'm not a huge swimmer, but I do love that. But yeah, getting like sand in your shoes or sand in your underwear when you're not at the beach, that's not so great.
Yeah, where the bed is one of the reasons I've never even much of a sand camper. I've done a little of it, but it's not really my cup of tea, just because I have a harder time maintaining that that line between the sand world and mine, a non sandy world. But still I've had some great times camping on the beach as well.
You know, I was just thinking about how in Dune there is so much about the absence and preciousness of water. But I was struggling to remember, are there equivalent sentiments the characters express about the abundance or over abundance of sand.
Hmmm, well, I'm trying to remember you've been reading Herbert more recently than I have.
Yeah, though, so now I'm reading Dune Messiah, which I've actually never read before, So I'm finally getting into the sequels. I'm enjoying it, though I'm aware there are diminishing returns as you continue, but.
It depends if you open your whole heart to it. I'm of the opinion there there are gems to be found in each of the books, but those the first two books are special in my opinion. Well, I I've enjoyed them all, but but yeah, there's it's it's different once you get into the later books.
The second book, I've noticed so far there is significantly less ecology in it and it is more politics and conspiracy.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's a dark read in its own right. Yeah, we will be talking a little bit about done as we proceed here. We'll talk a little bit about some technology, some FRIM and technology from the frimkit. But yeah, this is where I guess we get more into the imagination sphere for sand because it does bring up a lot of ideas, and so I was thinking, like, what are some of the core ideas I keep coming back to and I keep seeing and in my readings and things
I'm watching things I'm thinking about. I think one of the big ones that everyone's probably thinking of is, of course, sand as the infinite, you know, uncountable grains of sand and deserts that stretch beyond sight or on beaches that just you know, vanish into the ocean unseen. I think of sand through the hour glass. I think of the excellent short story The Book of Sand from Hory Lewis
Borges about a tone of infinite random numbered pages. So anytime you you open the book, you'll find different numbers, and they might be it might be just a small number, colossal number. I think at one point it's like a number to the ninth power that the reader finds. And and then the script itself is written in some language that he can't decipher, and sometimes with a crude image, but it is infinite, and you'll never find the same
page twice. And he fears that if he burns the book, it will an infinite book will burn infinitely and just you know, cloak the world and smoke smoke. Yeah, so you know, I think about stuff like that.
I read this story last night. Actually, oh you were telling me about Yeah.
It's like three pages long, it's it's it's great. One of the things I love about Borhees, He's deep, he's often very brief.
One thing I like about that story is that it begins, as with so many Borhees stories, with a traveler arriving strange traveler who has an artifact to share with you, and then the protagonist greatly desires to acquire the artifact, and so in this case, yeah, he becomes entranced because he finds a page in the book that has a tiny illustration of an anchor on it, and then he like turns the pages and then can't ever find the
anchor again. But yeah, it describes like trying to get to the first page and it's impossible because pages just keep multiplying towards the covers. You know, it's gotten an epigraph to a poem by George Herbert that refers to the idea of ropes of sand, you know, a common metaphor for something that is like unstable or not substantial.
But the other metaphor with sand in the story is like you're saying the idea of the infinite, that sands are infinite, and therefore you know they could they could just multiply forever, like the pages of this book. The funny thing is, of course, grains of sand are not actually infinite. Grains of sand are I perfectly finite. That is a countable thing. It's not practically accountable by human beings,
but in theory is countable. And in fact, you know, mathematically speaking, any finite number is infinitely small than infinity. So the number of grains of sand in the universe is infinitely less than an actual infinity.
Yeah, yeah, some of you may be thinking of this. We're not really going to get into this concept in this episode, but Archimedes of course famously tried to figure out what was the upper bound for the number of sand grains in the universe, So it's you know, he was of the mind it can be counted, or at least estimated, Yeah.
Which, you know, and whole like methods of estimation of substances like that, I think are a really interesting topic. We've talked about on the show before. Long ago we did an episode on fermi estimation, remember that, which is just like a sort of orders of magnitude based system for estimating numbers of uncountable things.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And you mentioned sand falling through the fingers passing through the fingers. The ephemeral nature of things made out of sand, that is I think another major theme you see over and over again. Of course, you see it in things like sand mondolas or sand castles, you know, where you can create this thing of beauty out of the sand, but it will not last, and it's not supposed to last, and of course neither do we. Let's see other ideas. Sand is a varied substance. Of course,
not all sand is the same. Some of the things we call sand, especially when we get off of our planet, you get into various discussions about is.
It sand, is it soil? Is it soil?
Is it really sand? And you kind of go back and forth, and then sometimes people just call it sand.
Am I correct in understanding that sand is not a name for a substance. It's a name for a size of particle. Sand is a grit size, right.
But people can get a little particular, like, for instance, we're not really going to get into the hourglass here. We might come back and do a full episode in the hour glass in the future, but some people will point out, well, actually it's not sand in an hour glass, it's this particular recipe of particles that works well with an hour glass.
And I guess there are things that might fit the definition if you just go by grain size, but nobody would call them sand, like would sugar be sand by If you just go particles.
You would get you would get weird looks. If you ask for it's like, give me the sweet sand, the sand that goes in my coffee. People would ask, who is this space aly? But uh, yeah, I mean the other thing is, yeah, you have different colors of sand, different sistencies of sand, Like digging in the beach. I know that like sometimes you have that sand it is like a powder, or when it's compacted it's like a
it's almost like a clay that you can mold. And then other times the bits of like shell in the sand that it's so like coarse and rough that you just like scrape your hands up digging in it, you know, but you can't stop because it's what you do at the beach. Likewise, digging in the sand, you quickly often realize, well, this is this is a thing, this is a world that creatures live in as well. You know, you might
encounter things like periwinkles or sand hoppers. Sand fleas whatever you want to call them, or of course the mighty sand crabs darting in and out of their little layers, and then yeah, and then just back to sand castles
as well. It's kind of like a very early experiment with the idea of what large scale things can I make out of the smallest visible pieces, you know, so you're not really you know, I'm dealing with things in an atomic level obviously, but especially as a child, like the sand seems like the boundary of smallness, and it's like, you bring these together, you make a clump, you make
a ball that becomes a tower. Towers are bridged together, becomes a castle, and yeah, I think there's there's something insightful there, Like we begin to sort of gaze into these mysteries of sand at an early age. All right, So for the majority of the section I'm taking in this episode, I wanted to talk about a couple of ideas from science fiction concerning sand. And these are little ideas that are in neither in either neither case or
they particularly key to the work. You could take them out of each work and it would it would be fine. But they've always stuck in my mind because they were neat uses of sand, and so I'm kind of using those as a place to jump off to briefly talk about some other mostly space related topics, but also some kind of like military world and infrastructure type topics.
So the first before.
I get to Doon, the one I want to mention is a nineteen eighty four novel that fewer people have read, but it still has quite a following.
It's called Armor.
It's by an author by the name of John Stakley st A. K. L. E. Y. If you're looking him up. This is the same guy who wrote Vampires with a Dollar Sign, which John Carpenter. Well, John Carpenter directed the adaptation of it. As we've discussed before, probably not at anybody like the top of anybody's Carpenter list.
Still has some great moments in it.
Uh, they're seeing the whole thing.
Actual, Oh you haven't.
I was not able to finish it at the time I tried to watch it. I can't remember a huge Carpenter fan, but I just didn't love this one.
It it has its moments, but the book, the book was better in my memory.
Arm the Dollar Sign.
The dollar Sign was cool. Uh is it about money?
Yeah?
You know, the business of slaying vampires. I'm a little foggy on that. The main thing that I that sticks with me out of that book is just how scary the vampires were, Like, they were just scary and nasty in a way that they touched on a little bit in the movie. But they're just really awful. You just
hate vampires in this book. Armor, however, is more in keeping with like your Starship Troopers sort of world where it's humans in power armor, like crazy powerful power armor, and they're battling insect aliens on the surface of a distant desert world called Bansheet. And there are a lot of interests twist and turns in this, and the writing's really bombastic, and you know, you really feel the action.
But at one point, the human faction here with their power armored soldiers, they use a large high tech, you know, sci fi machine and a sand clotter called a Siliconite eighteen, and they use this this combination to suck sand in through the front of this machine and then it like leaves behind it essentially prints a trail of five meter tall, perfectly smooth stone wall to fortify their makeshift base out on this desert world.
Okay, so it sucks in sand and it adheres it into a solid substance.
Yeah.
Yeah, it creates like a solid sand brick wall, which I always thought was pretty cool. And I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen that used in media elsewhere, in video games or something.
Maybe it is, but.
This is this is really interesting because yes, we're talking about sci fi far future warfare here, but of course humans have been doing this in the real world for quite a while, often in the form of sandbags.
Yeah, funny story. So this podcast started a lot of people who listen probably don't even know this. This podcast started originally when we were writers and editors for the website HowStuffWorks dot com many many years ago, which was like a encyclopedic informational website that had articles like, you know, how a car engine works and stuff. So I was hired on you were a writer at that website when I joined as an editor and I don't know what in twenty ten.
Or something, and then be four times.
Yeah, that long long ago, and one of the first articles I edited for the website was how sand bags work. Now, you wouldn't think that there's that much to say about how a sandbag works, But I remember it being a surprisingly rich and interesting topic. But all the things sandbags can do and in fact to do better than other more high tech solutions exactly.
Yeah, it's pretty fascinating. Like I grew up in a household my dad was always into a lot of like World War II stuff and did models of tanks, and so I was familiar with pictures of tanks, and in reading about sandbags here, I had to go back and remind myself, Oh, yeah, they would off. You see all these images of World War two tanks with sandbags layered on top of the metal armor of the tank to
add like additional in the field protection against ballistics. So I was reading a bit more about this out like why are sandbags good for this twenty sixteen study from chin at all from the National University of Singapore, and this was published by ASM International, and they conducted a study and in the study pointed out that, yeah, of course sand has been used in fortifications for a long time,
and we've known that it's great at absorbing energy. But they looked into it a little bit more and they found that sand can absorb more than eighty five percent of the energy exerted against it, and its resistance actually increases with the speed of the projectile, even at high velocities.
So they experimented by firing various projectiles at silica sand blocks, and one of the really interesting things they point out is that when a projectile hits a block of compacted sand, such as I believe like in a compacted military sand bag or a hesco bastion, which is a collapsible wire mesh container that then gets filled up with sand or soil or gravel. But the extreme frictional force of the sand particles against the projectile passing through it can potentially
break that projectile into pieces. So think to your childhood, perhaps if you were a beach going child digging in the sand and eventually feeling your hands becoming raw from all those sand particles, you know, because it's sand. Now, imagine a projectile passing through compacted sand and high speed and the friction of that. It's pretty fascinating like that this could essentially destroy the projectile as it passes through.
Meanwhile, the same.
Projectile, if it is powerful enough to pass through a metal barrier, it will just pass through and can continue to you know, decimate somebody or something on the other side. So one of the things they end up arguing in this paper is like we should be looking at more ways to use sand, either in place of substances like steel or figuring out how the best layer them with steel or other materials. Like I guess it's it's just fascinating to think. You know, we think about the armor
of the future. We think about things like power armor and suits and steel and plate. Powerful plates are energy, yeah, or plastic plastic steel, you know, some sort of crazy plastic that's as strong as steel. But at the end of the day, there's a strong case to be made like that we should not forget sand, because sand again is just an amazing you know, absorbent substance for these sorts of projectiles and the sorts of this sort of energy.
Well, I know you were already talking about this. I think maybe this came up when we were talking last night, But you know, I recall seeing plenty of examples through you know, world history, military history of like metal, plate, armor and sand used in combination, like one one against the other.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, certainly you see a lot of like makeshift you can pack up the sand bags and you create a little wall. And then there's the example of the tanks. But I don't know, there's something about like I don't recall ever really putting it together too much that oh yeah, I'm looking at sandbags on those tanks. You know, it's one of those things that's so mundane. You know, you see sand bags a lot, you can kind of become blind to what's going on.
There, to the beauty of the sand bag.
Yeah yeah, all right, Now, moving from the sandbag back into the science fiction future, let's come at last to done. Okay, Frank Herbert's nineteen sixty five novel, and then the same technology does come up a little bit at least in one of the other books, but it does make it. It does hit in the first one as well. So the Friemen make use of a sand compactor as part
of the standard frim kit. You know, the frimekit is the thing, like you know, it's hidden away for Paul and his mother, and you know, then they have to use it on their own surviving out in the sands of Aracus.
So that's also going to have still suit yep, still suit. It goes on your body, it protects you it keeps you from losing moisture to the environment. Does it have a thumper the thumper, yeah, around kit it either is it either a tract or it distracts the worm? Yeah?
Yeah, both.
Yeah, there's a yeah, depending on how you're using it. There's the tent, I believe, and then there are probably some things that aren't mentioned. There's probably I'm thinking there's a mint in there, maybe a piece of gum.
I don't know why not.
But the sand compact, Yeah, you want a little moisturizer, you know, maybe a nice note. Oh there was a note, but I don't know how nice it was. It's like, hey, sorry, but I had to do this. But yeah, the sand compactor is probably one of the weirder ones. And I remember like thinking it was really cool when I first read Dune, because it is described as a sand compaction tool that realigns sand grains and allows you allows you to effortlessly burrow out of a sand buried tint, and
presumably has other purposes. I think it's used slightly differently in a later book, but I'm assuming you could also use it to maybe blast the sand off of your feet, And it seemingly involves binding sand grains together with an electromagnetic charge.
Oh okay, yeah.
Now, as I understand it, the cool thing about this is that this particular gadget, of course, remains a tool of the far future imperium we see in dune, but we do have electrostatic gadgets that can clean up sand. There's something called an EDS electrodynamic screen, which is kind of an electrostatic cleaning system for removal of sand particles
from solar panels. Because you know, you have a bunch of sand accumulate, you know, even in just little bits of it on solar panels, that's going to get in the way of how effective they are. So this technology exerts an electrostatic force to remove sand from that screen. Okay, So in a sense, yeah, there's a connection to be made between these two different technologies.
Like an electromagnetic vacuum.
Yeah.
Yeah, But again, this is the kind of thing I feel like would make me more of a beach camper if I could like point a flashlight sort of shaped object at my feet and just kind of like hose them off with pure dry electrostatic charge or something. Now, coming back to the idea of sand constructions on other worlds, So kind of coming back to that armor example of
printing out fortresses is on Banshee. There are actually a number of proposals to do a certain amount of manipulation of the regulith on our moon as well as on Mars. The lunar regulith isn't quite sand by many definitions. It's sometimes referred to as such, and sometimes it's called soil, though plenty of people will point out, well, it's not soil.
Earth. Soil is of.
Course essentially a living, thriving, organically active thing, and that.
Is not what you get on the moon.
Yeah, we've gone into more depth than this sort of thing before when we talked about like like what is like lunar dust, and often dust is a is a is good or a better descriptor as well. But there is the idea that we could create various sort of sometimes called lunar crets or astrocrets, that are essentially there are a lot basically there are a lot like terrestrial concretes. They would they would still be complicated to carry out.
Like it's not just a matter of like well them up to the Moon or send them to Mars with just a bag of mix that you buy at the store. You're still dealing with something that would be difficult to carry out, especially in such an environment. And you know, essentially in some of these cases might have to be like three D printed as well. But it's a It means that you wouldn't have to bring everything as a
module up from Earth and then send it over. You could create some amount of your infrastructure, you know, foundations, you know, even whole buildings or tunnel systems by transforming you know, the sand if you will, that you have
there into some sort of concrete, AstroCrete or lunar crete substance. Now, this next example is fascinating because it also it makes perfect sense once it's rolled out, but it also feels like even more sci fi than some of these cases, Like it sounds like a little more grim dark than than anything that is actually rolled out in the book Armor,
but it's really cool. So AstroCrete, as proposed by scientists from the University of Manchester, this calls for the use of human urea and other excretions to strengthen the regalith concrete, essentially making a kind of biocomposite out of it, and is plenty of science has bricks PP bricks. But as I think, one of the main things that the headlines and even the authors of the proponents of this plan, the way that they put it is blood, saying like
this would be like the blood of astronauts. So there's a twenty twenty one study here published in Materials Today Bio and the title is Blood, Sweat and Tears Extraterrestrial regalith Biocomposits with in vivo Binders by Roberts at All And yeah, they get into it and discuss how a protein from human blood, the proteins from human blood can form this biocomposite material with the moon, the Moon's dust or the Mars dust, you know, the sand of either world,
if you will, And that the compressive strength of the biocomposite materials is ultimately on par with concrete and by incorporating incorporating urea from urine, they can actually increase the compressive strength by over three hundred percent. So there's power EMPP bricks, blood, MPP bricks, blood and MPP bricks. Yeah, and this would be something that would be potentially then three D printed on site, so something actually not unlike the wall printers in the novel Armor at least in spirit.
And one thing that they do stress and this is, you know, you get into the logistics of this, you'd have to have your astronauts essentially continuously donating plasma, you know, on top of their waste products, which are going to have to shed anyway, but donating plasma for the purposes of them later three D printing these bricks.
So I think that's they're not going to be under any stress or anything.
Yeah, but the authors here do make a point of saying you would need to figure out exactly what the right regiment for this would be, you know, because I guess on the way over, maybe they were to a certain extent more be more downtalent downtime, and you could kind of like put your astronauts on drip and get some fluids from them. But we know that journeys between planets and journeys between our world and its moon, these are not stress free environments either, so you can't you
have to. Basically, their point is like you don't want to in any way incapacitate or decrease the effectiveness of your astronauts, while at the same time, you know, putting them on drip a little bit in order to build your bricks in the future.
Okay, yeah, so I don't know, I really really like this idea.
It's been out for a few years, so I can only imagine that somebody's latched onto it. In science fiction, certainly some of the more recent Mars colony Lunar colony visions, well, you know.
You could imagine that if if the stress on the astronaut's body is too much, you could have a kind of separate classes of people going to other planets. So you'd have you'd have the astronauts who were there to work, and then the ones who were there to be a to be a blood and peepye bag. Oh you know.
Yeah, that that's interesting.
That certainly, that's the kind of idea you could explore in some of these and some of them have talking about different caste systems for far future humans on other worlds.
But a Mars blood boy.
Yeah, Mary, yeah, I ad read it all right. I have one more one last spacesand topic I want to discuss here, and it involves the electric sand of Titan, which I have to admit, so it's pretty metal. It is ultimately pretty metal.
So we've covered tight song by Sleep I think.
It could very much be a sleep song or an early electric Wizard song from some of their spacier material. Yeah, basically could fit just about any like seventies dim sound.
Drop out of Life on a rope of sand.
Yeah, yeah, that kind of vibe. Yeah, So we're going to tighten for this topic. We've covered Titan on the show before. This is Saturn's largest moon. It has a thick atmosphere and earth like systems of flowing liquid only instead of water. It has liquid hydrocarbons such as methane and ethane. However, it may have a subsurface ocean of water, and in many ways it is very earth like. But with that caveat caveat of don't go anywhere beyond Earth
and expect to easily find something exactly like Earth. So it's still very extreme. It's very cold, it has ice like rocks and possible believe volcanoes that spout liquid water. It's it's a rough place if we were to imagine ourselves physically being there. It's the second largest moon in our Solar system, trailing the Jovian moon of Ganymede. It's larger than both Earth's moon and the planet mercury, and it does have sand.
I think that comes with an asterisk though.
Yeah.
Yeah, anytime we're talking about sand in other worlds, we have to add the caveat that we scientists will disagree on terminology from time to time, but scientists will often use the term sand when talking about it, at least, you know, with the public. So, as described on the NASA fact sheet for Titan, dark earth like sand dunes stretch across the cross parts of Titan, and the sand is composed of dark hydrocarbon grains, often described as probably
looking like coffee grounds. Interesting, So again, you know, it feels very doom metal, you know, black deserts of weird sand. And I included an image here in our notes, Joe, maybe we can even splash this up for video to see, since it's a NASA JPL image. But what I'm looking at here is an image of sand dunes on the moon of Titan. And this is detected via Cassini's radar.
So like just long, long, parallel dunes like you might see in some deserts on Earth.
Yeah exactly.
So it's frequently compared to deserts on Earth and people pointing out, yeah, yeah, this is kind of like an Earth desert, except very different in other ways. But where this gets really cool? I thought, I mean, it's already
really cool. But in twenty seventeen, Joshua Mendez, a granular dynamicist at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, proposed in a paper published in Nature Geoscience titled Electrification of Sand on Titan and its Influence on Sediment Transport that the sands might become electrically charged via the tribal electric effect. This is something we experience all the time, like say, when you have static electricity that causes packing peanuts to
clean to your fingers. You know, the grains of sand on Titan might do something similar in a very unique way for a number of reasons. So the sand grains on Titan there are fluffier than sand on Earth, and the gravity there is seven times weaker than our own, meaning that the sand particles can potentially stick together in
ways that we just do not see on Earth. So we have the same you know, the trivial electric effect is going to be in play here on Earth with sand, but we have a different gravity situation and different consistency
of our sand grains. But The headline grabbing take home here, as the researchers discuss, is that you could make a sand castle on Titan out of this crazy goth black sand and it might stay up for weeks without the need of or anything to It would just be the electric charge holding everything together.
Interesting.
Okay, so I'm imagining not.
Sand castle's, but like weird, like Wayne Barlow esque alien sculptures on Titan out of this stuff. The deeper application here is that, you know, beyond the flashy headlines, is that it might explain the shape and formation of these sand dunes we just explained that can't as easily be accounted for by the wind. So, you know, we look at the way sand dunes form on Earth and then
we look at this example on Titan. We're like, oh, it's like we have here, except we're not going to have the same wind scenario on Titan to form them. This may be what's key to the formation of these dunes on Titan.
That's really interesting. Yeah, reminds me of something we've talked about on the surface of Jupiter's moon Io, where there was a similar question about has shifting sand dunes sand dunes that move over time and we can see that through like orbit imagery, and so the question is how do they move because Io basically has no appreciable atmosphere. You know, it's not going to have winds like our
atmosphere does. And I remember the main hypothesis we looked at for that was a paper that was talking about sort of explosive gusts of gas that I think are related to volcanic activity on Io, essentially creating temporary transient winds even though though there's not really much of an atmosphere, right right, Yeah.
Yeah, fascinating.
All right, we're going to move on to another section here and this this is your angle. And I think this is a great selection, in part because it gets into some other like major things that come to our mind. When we think about sand, things that sand can be turned into. They go well beyond just making it into a brick or a.
Bag of sand.
It's not just for sand bags. So yeah, we've talked about sand in its loose form, and of course I think everybody knows that melting sand is how you make glass, but when it comes to making glass, not all sand
is the same. To make industrial glass with a high level of transparency, modern glass makers usually select high purity quartz sand, which consists of almost pure silicon dioxide or silica and some other additives, usually to aid in the manufacturing process, like they introduce stuff to lower the melting point of the silica and make it easier to produce or to produce desired characteristics in the final product. Is. One example of this is introducing boron to the glass
boron trioxide to make what's called borosilicate glass. This kind of glass has the benefit of being more resistant to thermal shock due to a low coefficient of thermal expansion. Rob And if you ever shattered something made of glass due to heat mismanagement of heat and.
Cold, ooh maybe I haven't.
Well you're lucky.
Yeah, yeah, generally it's just the fingers to blame. Yeah, poor, poor guesswork on how much of the table I have set the glass on.
That sort of thing that can do it too.
But so, yeah, normal glass expands and contracts a lot, relatively a lot. You know, it expands and contracts due to changes in temperature. And so if you've got you know, a glass or a glass baking you know, a glass container, and you you change the temperatures on it too rapidly. It creates stress on the brittle structure of the glass because like in one part of it, it's getting hotter faster than the other part and expanding faster or vice versa,
and this can cause it to shatter. Borosilicate glass is better about this, which is why it is often used to make glass bake where it's not. They do also use sodaline glass to make glass bake bakeware, but borisilicate glass is less vulnerable to thermal shocks, though not invulnerable. I know people who have made baking you know, baking dishes made of glass designed for that purpose still explode
due to mismanagement of hot and cold. You don't want to like get a hot dish out of the oven, you know, you've just had it in a four hundred degree oven and then put it on like a puddle of cold water or oh, kettle or something that'll that's dangerous.
Okay, that's that's good to know, because that is the sort of thing I could conceivably do, and I will I will make a point of not doing.
Don't don't do that. Yeah, that's how to make your your baking dish explode anyway, that's industrial glass. But of course there are also natural forms of glass made from melted sand, and I want to talk about one type of naturally occurring sand based glass called folgurite. So fulgurite is a mineral made of silica or elicon dioxide that has been fused by the heat of a bolt of lightning. I thought that's pretty cool. So the name comes from the Latin word for lightning, and it can be formed
when lightning hits multiple kinds of substrate. It can form in clay or soil, or in solid rock, but the most common type of folgarite is made when lightning strikes sand, and for this reason you can often find folgiarites in beaches, on beaches or in the desert. So a common recognizable form of folgiarite is a partially buried, crusty looking tube.
But that's going to be hollow in the middle, and then on the inner surface it will be glassy but not usually smooth on the outside, so the outsides often look very rough and gnobbily. And I was thinking they look like a flute that orcs would play something of mordor technology about them, or like that effect you get when you earn a candle many times in a row, and it creates this multi wax structure on the outside.
A lot of folgiarites look like that on the outside due to I guess some kind of melting and then partial melting around the outer surface, which is going to mean that like unmelted sand, grains end up adhering to it, so you get this rough outer surface. They vary in thickness in length, somewhere between one and several centimeters thick, and they sometimes have these branching or forked shapes, which indicates the path the lightning took as it was conducted
into the ground through the soil or the rock. Around the outside, again, they're usually covered with like rough sand particles or pebbles. And the cool thing is that extremely long fulgierites have been discovered, some sources say up to twenty meters in length, though that doesn't necessarily mean you can get it out intact, because as you can imagine, it's like hard to extract a whole delicate glass tube of that length from the ground intact.
Like I'm thinking, I mean, it's kind of like the lightning has just cooked the sand, and so you could imagine something like I don't know a cake that is, the cake is on the whole not all that well cooked, but you have like this thread going through it that is really cooked.
Through thread going through the middle where part of the cake has been vaporized and left as a hollow, and then a section around that has been liquefied and then re solidified, and this glassy, smooth inner channel, and then a rougher surface around the outside. There are other types of fulgarite, though it's not just sand. There are rock fulgarites. These are a bit different. They usually appear as glassy layers or glassy crusts on top of a rock, often
on mountain summits. So this is a really cool thing. If you go to the top of a mountain, you might find rocks near the very top have these little places that are like a dark glassy patch on the rock. What is that This is the place where the mountain has formed a natural lightning rod is striking the rock and melting it and turning it into this glassy surface.
Another thing is that when you see good examples of these really forked or branching fulgiarites, sometimes they look like a cross between a ginger root and ET's hand, but more gray and crusty, usually also worth mentioning. Sometimes artificial fulgarites can be formed by artificial injections of extreme heat and energy into sand or rock, for example, by downed power lines or by arc welders. You can make human made folgiarites that way, and Charles Darwin actually talks at
length about fulgiarites in the Voyage of the Beagle. I was trying to remember when I was making the notes if this came up in our episode on ice Formations, because in that one we were talking about Darwin's travels in South America where he's going through a pass going through what is today Chile and Argentina. But I don't
think this came up. You remember in that passage he has these misadventures going through the very high mountain pass where they tried he and his companions try to boil potatoes, but the potatoes won't cook.
Oh yes, yes, they're at very.
High altitude, so the boiling point of water is lowered, so the potatoes won't get hot enough moman boiling them. But that's also the episode where he found the upside down frozen horse in the Pinnacles of Ice yes, but anyway, the part where he talks about finding Folgierites is in chapter three of the Voyage of the Beagle called Maldonado, where Darwin is traveling in what is I think modern
day Uruguay. But I'm just going to read from Darwin here where he describes this find quote in a broad band of sand hillocks which separate the Laguna de Potrero from the shores of the Plata. At the distance of a few miles from Maldonado, I found a group of those vitrified silicious tubes which are formed by lightning entering loose sand. These tubes resemble in every particular those from
drig In Cumberland described in the Geological Transactions. He's referring to these other things that have been in the literature. The sand hillocks of Maldonado, not being protected by vegetation, are constantly changing their position. From this cause. The tubes projected above the surface, and numerous fragments lying near showed that they had formerly been buried to a greater depth.
Four sets entered the sand perpendicularly. By working with my hands, I traced one of them two feet deep, and some fragments which evidently had belonged to the same tube. When added to the other part measured five feet three inches, the diameter of the whole tube was nearly equal, and therefore we must suppose that originally it extended to a much greater depth. These dimensions are, however, small compared to those of the tubes from drig one of which was
traced to a depth of not less than thirty feet. Again, those incredibly deep. So after this he goes on describing them a little bit more. He talks about how they're vitrified, glossy and smooth on the inside, and then rough on the outside. He compares the outside to a shriveled vegetable stalk,
or to the bark of an elm tree. And then also he goes on to talk about some experiments that have been conducted in Paris where they made artificial folgiarites by passing a very strong shock of galvanism into a finely powdered glass, and they managed to recreate some of this effect. And let's see, there's one funny passage here.
He says, when we hear that the strongest battery in Paris was used, and that its power on a substance of such easy fusibility as glass was to form tubes so diminutive, we must feel greatly astonished at the force of a shock of lightning, which, striking the sand in several places, has formed cylinders in one instance of at least thirty feet long and having an internal when not compressed, of full an inch and a half. And this in a material so extraordinarily refractory as quartz.
Wow.
So Darwin was not confused about what these things were. He already knew what they are, that they're made by lightning.
But I'm trying to imagine how interesting it would be to go out like he did and find these in the wild, protruding, like you said, in an area without much vegetation, and these sand hillocks where you're going out, and because the sand shifts and moves, these glass formations are now sticking up into the air, exposed, and you look at them, I'd imagine and say, like, what is is that some kind of stalk or cactus or something, and then you come upon it and realize it is glass?
Wow?
Yeah, just like alien formations growing up out of the sand.
Yeah.
Yeah, And I guess they eventually get broken off by the weather, but sometimes they're just just having a good old poke up there.
Wow.
So I wanted to also mention one scientific paper I came across because the authors of this paper did an interesting bit of calculation in their background section to estimate the rate of Fulgiar right formation on Earth. So this was a paper called a Fossilized Energy Distribution of Lightning. This is by Matthew Passick and Mark Hurst, published in
Scientific Reports in twenty sixteen. I looked up the author is Matthew Passick is a geochemist who was at the time affiliated with the University of South Florida, and mark Hurst is an independent geologist. But the authors of this paper just start off by talking about how powerful lightning is, and of course you know Darwin makes the same observation.
He's looking at this fused glass and then saying like the most powerful battery in Paris could barely do you know anything close to this, or imagine how powerful lightning is to fuse all the sand in this way. The authors here talk about the total energy of a lightning strike might be up to ten to the nine jewels, and that lightning can heat the air around it to a temperature above thirty thousand kelvin. And of course, you know, we think of lightning and its vast discharge of energy
as primarily destructive. When you imagine what lightning can do, we think about things that it can hurt. You've got your standard bolt of vengeance from Jupiter. You know, it strikes a person dead, and then you know, the ancient Romans might look at that in awe and like build a shrine around that area, as a Jupiter has interacted with this place, best not mess with it.
Yeah, I mean, when we think of putting it to use, it's generally going to be bringing of Frankenstein's monster to life or powering a time traveling glorean, and that that's pretty much it. Those are the only applications.
Bold of lightning. Yeah.
But yeah, so it can do that. We know also it can start fires, natural forest fires, and it causes destruction and damage to buildings. But the authors here just mentioned briefly a couple of things people might not appreciate about how lightning is also somewhat ecologically important, like it does good things for us. This is a detour, but I thought it was interesting, so I just wanted to
mention it. One thing that has come up on the show before, of course, is the ecological importance of lightning in starting forest fires. Like some amount of forest fires are necessary, right like, there are life forms that depend on occasional or periodic forest fires. There are plant seeds that are only activated in the presence of fire or smoke, so you know, the life cycle of forests to some
degree depends on occasional forest fires. But also the authors here bring up something that I don't think i'd ever read about before, that lightning plays a small role in nitrogen fixation on Earth, which nitrogen fixation is a process that we absolutely depend on for life. You know, nitrogen is a key component of amino acids and proteins. Without it, we could not make DNA or RNA or the proteins that build our cells. Plants couldn't make chlorophyll. So all
life on Earth pins on nitrogen. And you might think, well, that's fine, because there's plenty of nitrogen in the atmosphere, right like, nitrogen is the main constituent of our atmosphere, But the form of nitrogen available in our atmosphere is actually not biologically usable. Atmospheric nitrogen exists mostly in the form of two nitrogen atoms bonded together called di nitrogen, and these two atoms are held together by an extremely strong chemical bond, so in order to be usable to life,
you have to break that bond. Dihydrogen needs to be broken apart and converted into other compounds like nitrates which are nitrogen oxygen compounds, or converted into ammonia, which is made of nitrogen and hydrogen. So what can break apart
the di nitrogen the two nitrogen atoms. The vast majority of the world's natural nitrogen fixation is done by microorganisms, so you have single celled life forms like bacteria and archaea called diazotrophs, which have special enzymes called nitrogenases that are able to break the dinitrogen bonds and generate derivative compounds.
So one example of this is Rhizobia, which is a type of bacteria that exists symbiotically in legume roots like the roots of bean plants, and together with the plant, the bacterium and the plant are able to convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia or in H three. So most natural nitrogen fixation happens like that, but some small amount of
the world's nitrogen fixation is also done by lightning. So lightning is hot enough to break apart dinitrogen in the atmosphere as it cuts a path to the ground, so it breaks apart the dinitrogen and makes it react with oxygen other elements in the atmosphere, primarily oxygen, and then these nitrogen oxygen compounds are carried down to the ground by rain and then they can be absorbed and used by plants in the form of nitrate. So lightning helps.
Yeah, something to keep in mind the next time we see some electrical activity in the storms, like we're looking at a factory of sorts.
Yeah.
Yeah. So anyway, coming to the part about fulgurites, the authors do some interesting mass to calculate how often folgiarites around the world might be formed, and they I just want to read this section. They say, quote, lightning is a ubiquitous phenomenon on Earth, with a global flash rate of about forty five times per second, a majority seventy five to ninety percent of which occur over continental land mass.
About a quarter of these strikes occur from a cloud to the ground, and hence the number of potential fulgiarit forming events is significant. With up to ten folgarites formed globally per second.
WHOA.
This estimate depends on the efficiency of fulgarite formation by lightning, which is highest when striking barren sand, soil or rock. So obviously there's going to be less formation when it's striking like a forested area.
Still that is significantly more than I would have guessed.
Yeah. Now, one last thing I wanted to mention about folgier ites is actually not about folgiar rights in sand. This is about rock fulgiarites. But I thought this was interesting too, so I wanted to get into it. Robin the outline. I've got a picture you can look at of the peak of Mount Shasta in California, and you can see these dark scars in the rock. What's going
on there? That's rock fulgiarites. The mountain is a lightning rod and the peak is being going to be struck by lightning and it makes these glassy crusts in the rock.
Wow. Yeah.
To the untrained eye, you might just think it's like deposits of something some sort of like mineral vein in the rock.
But wow, that's fulgrit. Wow.
So the last thing I want to talk about here is This news article in the journal Science from December twenty twenty by Nick Ogassa called fossilized lightning to reveal when ancient storms struck. So, when lightning strikes a mountaintop like this, like when it hits the peak of Mount Shasta, it leaves this glassy residue, And you can think of this in a way as fossilized lightning. It is a record in the rock of lightning hitting. So in a way it is a record of weather projected into the
rock or into the soil and the sand. And these fossilized signatures of thunderbolts can play an interesting role helping scientists understand past climate patterns by allowing them to date thunderstorms.
So how does that work well? The article explains, citing the work of Jonathan Castro, who's a volcanologist at the Johannes Gutenberg University of Mines, that when naturally formed glasses like fulgiarite and others like obsidian are exposed to the outside air and to the elements, they slowly begin to
absorb water. And by measuring the amount of water they've absorbed, and I think how deeply it's been absorbed in theory, you should be able to measure the age of these glasses because they absorbed slowly, and so you can measure that, or at least you can measure not necessarily the age since they're formed, but the age since they've been exposed to the elements. So, for example, this has been considered as a method for dating artifacts like obsidian arrowheads. But
there's a problem. They figured out there are problems with the method because quote, many of these glasses come from volcanoes and already contain water from the time they were forged,
so that water interferes with this potential dating method. But Castro and colleagues reasoned that, unlike volcanically forged obsidian, fulgurites could be free of this problem because the extremely high energy of the lightning strike that creates the folgarite actually vaporizes any water that's hiding out in there because it's so hot, So fulurite last might be a more reliable
target for this moisture absorption based dating method. So Castro and colleagues tested this out by making artificial rock fulgurite by shocking samples of rock with an arc welder. Again, these artificial things, like when you have a down to
power line and it makes folgiurite in the sand. They shocked rock with an arc welder, reaching temperatures above ten thousand degrees celsius, which is what's required to make the folgiarite, and these temperatures did indeed boil away almost all of the moisture, meaning that the fulgarite should serve as a reliable time piece allowing you to measure the time since
its creation. And after this, the researchers decided to test the dating system on natural rock fulgurites, which they harvested from some volcanic mountain peaks in Oregon in the US state of Oregon, because again mountain peaks are these lightning rods. And some of the folgiarites they sampled turned out to be hundreds of years old, and they argued that this method could be used to date fulgarite glass with a
relatively high level of accuracy compared to other methods. Other methods you might have like measuring bombardment by cosmic rays. So in a paper published in twenty twenty in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters, Castro and co authors wrote that quote because the lightning strike is in and of itself so effective at devolatilizing melts in an instant. The resultant folgiarites are a unique earth material that record individual weather events i e. A thunderstorm and also longer
term paleo weather intervals. And they talk about one interesting example of how this could be used. It could reveal when in history particular rocks or mountaintops became exposed and thus vulnerable to lightning strikes, for example, to identify wind glaciers began to retreat from specific areas with a high degree of precision.
Fascinating. Yeah, huh.
I'm not a crystal guy. And if you start googling Fulgar rightes, a lot of the people who want to talk about these things have thoughts about the powers of crystals.
Oh, okay, there are certain powers attributed to Folgar rights in particular.
I think some people I don't know. I didn't go deep in that world. I just saw a bunch of Google hits and I'm like, Okay, I don't have time for that.
I'll research it the next time I'm in Asheville going to the various crystal stores.
Yeah, so I'm not that kind of crystal guy. But now I'm kind of like I want some vulgarite very interested in this it.
You know, I didn't get a chance to reread Armor in full for this episode. It's just like zeroing in
on the part that I referenced earlier. But this makes me wonder if there's an example in that book, maybe examples even in Dune, or certainly any book where you have any fictional setting where you have an interaction of some sort of energy weapon or dragon breath or Godzilla breath, where you could potentially have like fulgar right scar of the battle, you know, like I'm imagining like there was some sort of interaction here, we had last guns, you know,
going off, or some sort of energy weapons, and then later it could almost leave like a forest of fulgar rite columns from where those like those missed laser beams or what have you, impacted the sand and then the rest of the sand blew away.
There are whole passages in Doing Messiah where Paul is like looking out over the planes where Fremen fought the Sarto car and he talks about the landscape and even the rocks and the scarps and all that. But I don't think he ever mentions anything like that.
I mean, it would be temporary, you know, because the elements would be we was over. Yeah, and you know, you can also imagine a scenario where things like this might be collected because they're essentially you know, the mentos of the battle, that sort of thing. But it's one of those things I kind of want to look out for now, and certainly listeners if you were like, oh, yeah, there's a you know place in Game of Thrones where
this is reference towards reference. Again, it might actually be referenced elsewhere in Herbert's Riding or in any of the sources we've mentioned already, But it seems like there's some some great potential there for fulgar ride battle scars.
I like it, are there energy weapons in Game of Thrones?
Well, you have dragons, Oh okay, I'm thinking of breath weapon or.
You know, some sort of magical effects or or you know, you know, other like high potency explosives. I don't know, but certainly dragon fire it seems like that might be the kind of thing that could produce fulgar rides in some cases.
I don't know.
In D and D what level of electricity spells like lightning or thunderbolt spells you have to get to to make fulgar ride.
I think it would happen right away. I mean, just your as soon as you're able to forget off the top of my head, I don't have make character sheet in front of me.
I can't remember.
You know, you get the lightning bolt spell and then you can like really ramp it up depending on what what spell over you're casting at. But right out the gate, it's pretty strong spell, especially if you can get your enemies to line up.
That's my favorite part.
Get them wet right.
Yeah, but sometimes that's where you have to like make a case for it with your dungeon master. But if your dungeon master makes a mistake of lining up all of the villains, all of the bad guys, all the monsters in us in a row, and you're able to move your your player to the side of them, you're able to flank them, then you can just like shoot that lightning bolt straight down the middle. And if they're you know, made up of land, you create fulgar rides.
Oh yeah based enemies.
Oh yeah, yeah, there's some sand based creatures. Yeah, for sure.
There's some sort of lightning spells on like a rock elemental.
Yeah, have some sort of sand golm that sort of thing. Yeah, then you have a fulgar ride golum and that's a whole new thing you have to contend with.
Okay, does that do it for today?
I think so. Yeah.
This has been a blast. You know, this is not our normal recording scenario, but I had a lot of fun doing it. Thanks to the studio here at Baja Mar, great staff, great facilities. This has been a lot of fun, totally. Yeah, it's good seeing you in person, Rob.
Yeah.
Yeah, Normally we're still doing the zoom thing, so we were not in the same space when we do it.
So yeah, this has been a lot of fun.
As always, we put the call out to listeners though if you have things you want to add to the topics we discussed here, certainly you know, getting into the sci fi visions, but also your own experience with sand and even just where you fall on the whole love hate relationship with beach Sand.
Write in. We would love to hear from you.
Just a reminder to everyone out there that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast. We have core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form episodes on Wednesdays and then on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns, so just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. We've been doing this for a
long time. At this point, you can find a pretty deep archive of Stuff to Blow Your Mind wherever you get your audio podcasts, and some of you out there are watching this in video from on.
Netflix and you can find more recent.
Episodes there, and we're going to continue to roll out that video content moving forward for the foreseeable future.
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway, and big thanks to our guest producer today, Carlisle.
Yes, Carlisle.
If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, you can email us at contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.
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