Death Roots: Dreams and Science of Carnivorous Plants

like an adventure, so you head off trail. Not always a good idea, but let's just say you're brave. If this is how all terrible stories start, how all tragedies begin, you leave the trail, Well, it starts very nice. So you're off trail and you find a little mountain brook and it's twisting among the rocks, and you decide, oh, how sweet, I'm gonna follow this upstream, maybe I'll find

its source. And on the way you come across a cluster of what looked like oak trees, thick trunks with roots spread out exposed over the bank of the brook, and there's an odd smell it's a little bit sweet, with just a hint of deep earthiness, kind of like overripe fruit. So you approach the stand of trees and the ground is covered with a mat of these beautifully colored fallen leaves. And as you come near the trunk of the nearest tree, your foot knocks against a smooth

stone tangled in the outer roots. But wait a second, that's no stone. It's smooth and white, partially buried with two eye shaped hollows. And then suddenly, with a rushing sound and a scattering of leaves up into the air, something envelopes you. The light gets blotted out. You feel these wooden fibers pressing into your skin from all sides. What's going on? You struggle to free yourself, but you find that you're becoming sluggish, disoriented. There's a powerful smell.

Your throat burns, and then the digestive enzymes come. Another visitor disappears into the grove of the killer tree. Ah. I knew it was a killer tree once the digestive enzymes in the woods started happening, because my first instinct would be, oh, something was in the tree. I got myself tangled, and then something was in the tree, and it jumped down upon me some sort of predator of

some sort. I guess that's the more logical thing to think, right, Yeah, I list until the wood comes, or that somebody has set some kind of trap for you. This is a human design, That's probably what I would guess. But Robert, well, what first comes to your mind when I say killer tree? I'm sure you've got like a fictional anchor point that

you go to. Oh, I mean there's so many, uh, there's so many examples of killer trees, and especially in fantasy, right, I mean it makes you think of the ants or especially like the dark sort of tree people from Dungeons and Dragons. I'm not really familiar with those. Well, what happens when you fight a tree person? Well, you know they're big there, wooden, there, their lumbering. I think there

are a few a few different varieties. There's basically, you know, they're animate trees and then they're sort of wooden people and they're good, good ones, and they're bad ones. Of course though the ants that we encounter and the Lord of the Rings are are are good. So when you're battling a tree person, do you like, do you have to have a paladin with a blessed wood chipper or something. I don't recall there being a requirement for magical weapons.

Of course, you know, some creatures can only be fought with natural weapons, but with with magical weapons. But I believe that the tree creatures in this case are just big, tough trees, because that's the thing they're they're they're they're large, They're flesh is different than us. So the idea of them becoming animate, the idea of them turning against us

is terrifying. Uh, and they do turn against us. I mean, we live in a very um tree friendly city, so anytime the wind blows, anytime the anytime the rain freezes, the trees rattle and threaten us. When they fall, they can cause significant damage and even lost life. There is a killer tree hanging over our house right now. Rachel and I are working on getting something done about that. But yeah, it's this old dead pecan tree. It just looks like it is aching to plunge its killer branches

through somebody's roof. And so yeah, there, of course killer trees in reality, But the kind we're thinking of are the ones that are a little more conscious, with some directed actions to the agency, maybe some arms, some tentacles, some some gaping maws with thorn teeth. Of course one of the big ones. And this one entered my mind

when you were taking me through descriptions. Of course, in Poulter Guys, there's that just horrifying scene that scarred me from an early age, where you have you have multiple things going on it once, like there's the creepy clown um doll on the bed, but then there's the tree outside the window that's like trying to eat the child man. So I haven't seen Poulter Guys in years. I honestly don't remember this scene. I guess I got back one

of many. They they're a lot of nightmare imagree up against the wall and up up their amount of it sticks. So I gotta tell you that this episode. I wanted to do this topic because I was inspired by having recently watched the William Friedkin horror movie The Guardian from nineteen for the first time. I remember the trailer for this is like a creepy babysitter, creepy nanny, but I never saw it, so I don't know what the what

the gimmick is. Well, i'll give you the premise. It's about a couple who has a baby and they're looking for a nanny because they both want to go right back to work immediately, so they're looking for a nanny to take care of their child, and they end up going with Camilla, the British nanny, who unfortunately is a druid who has got a tree friend, and her tree friend is a killer tree friend, and she likes to take babies to the tree sacrifice them to the tree.

Except it's this weird thing where the tree sort of absorbs the baby and then you can see the baby's face embedded in the surface of the tree. So I guess that the baby kind of melts into the tree and becomes petrified. Anyway, she she's an evil druid, kidnaps babies, sacrifices them to a killer tree. There are scenes where

the tree kills people. There's like Camilla gets attacked in the woods by some by some creeps who just happened to be hanging out in the woods, and the tree defends her by essentially smashing them and tearing them up. So would you say this is part of the druids floitation uh movement of the man if only there were such a genre, I would be all over that. I would be like a film scholar of the genre. But anyway,

so do I recommend this movie. It's not a good movie, but it's William Friedkin, so it's like a well made bad movie, if it makes any sense. Yeah, he there's a there's a certain segment of his filmography that that definitely fits that were always worth checking out if you're a fan of his. But you know, maybe not Tough Shell. I guess I'd say it's not good, but it's worth seeing, especially since the spoiler alert the climax of the film

involves a chainsaw. Oh welcome, of course it would um, of course, there are plenty of other cinematic examples of animate trees murdering reason just murderous plants. Um. Aside from ants, there's the the I don't know if anyone remembers the sexy Matron tree from the Last Unicorn. The tree becomes animate and attempts to love our hero to death, or one of our two heroes, the male hero s Medrick. I believe, and uh, this sounds troubling. She has like

huge bosoms and all um weird. It's a it's a weird. It's a weird film when you look back on it. That's the strange elements. Uh. Scott Smith's novel The Ruins and the two doesn't movie adaptation of it that concerns man eating vines. Yeah, and they're sort of infectious, right, So it's not just that the vines reach out and grab you, but that there's a spore element where they contaminate you with some kind of plant germ cell I think so, yeah, yeah, which is interesting when you start

getting into some of the technical possibilities of man eating plants. Um, let's say already mentioned Poulter guys. There, of course the vines and evil dead that are rather notorious. There's some man eating plant action in Chinese Ghost Story, which I have not seen yet. After reading a synopsis of part of it yesterday, it's moved back up to the top

of my must watch list. You've got the Whamping Willow and Harry Potter, you have you have a version of the the evil dead vines that are mentioned in a Cabin in the Woods, the quote angry molesting tree, which I think you only see like a a just a fragment of it as it like snatches a guard in one scene, Man Cabin in the Woods is full of

just great little freeze frame moments. Oh yeah, tremendous. Uh. They're various kaiju that, you know, giant monsters that have had plant elements to them and certainly planning with fun guy elements to them. And I believe one of Michael Shay's Niffed stories features a carnivorous plant kind of like a venus fly traffic such. It has a like a

humanoid female part in the middle to lure males inside it. Weird, but I don't have a clear memory of that, so maybe I'm imagining it, but it seems like the kind of thing that would be in one of his stories. Now, almost all of these seem like modern fictional inventions. Do are there are there animated trees, animated predatory trees or plants? Going back in mythology, I would expect to find such a thing. I expected to find some better examples, and

I was not able to find any. Um. Not to say that I didn't miss something, but the closest, the closest example that I came across and I got excited about this was um is that is this example of something called a jidra uh. And this is from the traditions and folk beliefs of the Middle East. But here's the caveat as related by medieval European travelers. And this is a theme we're going to see time and time again.

The plants become animate and man killing only in foreign environments entered by westerners, right, European and American travel writers and cataloguers of things going on in places other than Europe, in America and the America's talk about man eating plants, and in this case as again as related by medieval European travelers, and this was explained by Carol Rose and

are always excellent giants, monsters, and dragons Encyclopedia. Uh. The idea is this thing emerges from the ground like a plant, and and it's rooted in place, and it just consumes anything in its vicinity, you know, cattle, small animals, and of course humans. The only way to kill it is to detach it from its root, essentially chop it down. And if you do, then you get to harvest its bones, because I guess it has bones, which would be valuable. Um,

it has bones, apparently that's according to the myth. So I don't know, if this means that it literally has bones, that it's a like a rooted mammal of creature vertebrate creature of some sort, or if bones and by bones we mean it's like it's it's would you know, you know that does sound valuable because you could probably use the bones of the jitdra to make a totally vegan stock, right, so you roast the bones and then make it make like you'd make a chicken ste or something, but this

would be vegan, I said, depending, well, depending on exactly how you classify a monster like this. Now, I should also add that it's thought that this myth probably also derived from the man Drake, So you know, European influence the idea of the man Drake, which is this kind of like animal um vegetable hybrid creature, and then this kind of evolves into this tale of the j dra Okay, and I find it curious, though, you know, I looked

around for more examples, couldn't find it. I would have expected plenty of the Elder, the noted first century Roman historian who often spoke of foreign monstrosities, to have like a clear cut example of a man eating plant in foreign land. Oh yeah, plenty of the elders like the internet, right, like, if you can think it up, it's on there. Yeah,

and if you can imagine it, plenty wrote about it. Yeah, like people like beast people in other lands, the people with the bellies, the with head that had mouths in them. I mean all sorts of strange human aid monstrosities, beastly monstrosities, dragons, etcetera. So why no man eating plants? I don't know, now, Robert, did you ever see him night Shamalan's The Happening? I did not. I saw the it happened. There was some happening, and it happened, and it was about trees that were

trying to kill Mark Wahlberg. I have no idea why they want to do that. But it wasn't really predatory behavior. It was more like vindictive jerk behavior. So the trees didn't want to eat us. They were like tired of us being abusive to them. So it's even less in less biologically sound, yes, than than any of the examples

we've looked at as far. So Yeah, obviously, this idea of the killer tree the man eating plant is one that captures our imagination very easily, and I think I've got a theory as to while, and let me know what you think about. I think the reason we like the image of the killer tree and it shows up in all these stories is because the idea of a man eating plant has a certain level of why not

to it? Right, So, there are creatures in nature that all large animals with claws and teeth and tentacles and venom and such, and plants have things that are equivalent to this. They've got thorns, vine, tendrils, poisons. Trees are much larger than us, and then one sense they are apt to be much quote stronger than any animal prey

that would try to resist them. So why not you know, if the continent of Australia can produce an animal that has the fur of a mammal in the bill of a duck, why couldn't some deep, unexplored forest harbor a tree that can reach out with a vine covered in venomous thorns and snatch a hiker, wrap them up, roll tight until he turns blue, and then pull him down into a crevice in the roots structure and treat him

like a soft, salty meal. Yeah, I agree, I think on on on one hand, certainly we look at all the variety of nature. We see what's possible within nature, and you ask yourself, well, why doesn't this exist? Maybe it does exist, maybe some you know, a third or fourth hand tail that I've heard about a man eating plant is from a traveler is actually true. And the other hand, I think the reason it's so appealing is

because it's abhorrent, the idea it's crossing category exactly inherent taboo. Yeah, because I find myself kind of like if I see an example of an insect preying on a on a vertebrate, like invertebrates eating vertebrates is something that kind of like, it's wrong. The spiders got a frog, and it's well, yeah, it's like that. You're not supposed to move in that direction because to stick to your your own invertebrate kind. But of course it happens. Now, of course I wouldn't

actually blame the spider for that. I think that's perfectly fine. But no, no, no, no no judgments spiders. But but from our human standpoints, even more important, because we've largely removed ourselves from the risk of predation like which is a pretty remarkable thing in the grand scheme of things, right, and so we don't have to worry about other animals eating us. And the idea of another animal eating us is strange and awful and terrifying. Even more so the

idea that a tree could do it. Yeah, yeah, totally. You see, it goes backwards on the chain, the food chain, right, it's reversing the food chain. That's it's not supposed to be this way. So, except for the fact that we've never seen things like this happened, at an intuitive level, it's like, what's so implausible about it? Uh? Then at the same time, I think we may be able to come up with some good biological reasons we don't actually

see organisms like this. But according to some we must say, not very credible accounts, there is nothing all that implausible about the man eating tree, the killer tree, because people have written about these things as if they actually exist within the past few hundred years, and that hearsay was more more powerful previous exactly. So I want to talk about one source, a very weird biology book from the eighteen eighties called Sea and Land, written by a guy

named James William Buell. Now, just glancing through this thing and looking at the author's introduction it is obvious that this is not a source of credible scientific information. It's more are one of those nineteenth century natural wonders books. You've ever seen these kind of things where they're you know, like, wow, look at all these illustrations of animals in their natural habitats.

But they're all grossly inaccurate. And it's really not all that different from various versions of Plenty's work from previous time, exactly except it's you know, eight years later whenever Plenty was living. Uh yeah, exactly so. But it's got all these allegations of weird sensational creatures mingled in with reports about real animals, and I have to also says like a very Eurocentric sense of exoticism about the planet. So

there's that kind of unsavory element to it. But it's also full of gruesome and probably highly inaccurate illustrations about various animals and attack modes. And some of these illustrations are great. There's a good one of an orangutang apparently kicking a man to death, one of a swordfish stabbing at a sailor through the hull of a boat. Not impossible, extremely rare, but as we've discussed in our Jumping Fish episode. It has happened, okay, well, or well, individuals have been stabbed,

boats have been stabbed. I don't know if anyone, I don't, I don't remember, of both happened would be really bad luck. Yeah, but yeah, in this case, it looks like the swordfish is trying to kill the guy. Okay, but in any case, there's another one that's awesome. It's a giant crab hanging from a tree, lifting a goat up into the tree with its claw as if to devour it. But then finally a tree with tentacles pulling a human victim into the crown of its trunk. I have to say these

different accounts here. I couldn't help but think of a Simpson episode and I don't even remember the context, but they're being a scene where like a gorilla is in a tree and a shark comes out of the river underneath it and eats the gorilla as an example of like natural predation or something. Oh wow, but yeah, So anyway, so Buell says that travelers have told him stories of a carnivorous plant that grows in Central Africa and South America, and he says it's so voracious that even resorts to

eating humans. And I want to read a quote from the book. He says, quote, this marvelous vegetable minotaur is represented as having a short, thick trunk, from the top of which radiate giant spines, narrow and flexible but of extraordinary tenaciousness, the edges of which are armed with barbs

or dagger like teeth. Instead of growing upright or at an inclined angle from the trunk, these spines lay their outer ends upon the ground, And so gracefully are they distributed that the trunk resembles an easy couch with green

drapery around it. Uh. Then he goes on to say that the unfortunate traveler will come along and quote the moment his feet are set within the circle of horrid spines, they rise up like gigantic serpents and entwine themselves about him until he is drawn upon the stump, when they speedily drive their daggers into his body and thus complete the massacre. The body is crushed until every drop of blood is squeezed out of it and becomes absorbed orbbed

again by the gore loving plant. When the dry carcass is thrown out, and the horrid trap is set again. I'm some elements of that sound reasonable, especially later when we get into real world carnivorous plants and the idea that plants are living things that that live and move

at an entirely different speed. And therefore when you see like fast moving actions such as from a venus fly trap, it is very much like a like a crossbow, a heavy crossbow that's been painstakingly loaded over time and then sprung. So I could I could see this idea of like a sprung trap working within the conceivably working within the

confines of of of actual botany. Yeah. Yeah, with a certain type of movement, you can imagine it less so when especially with something we're gonna hear about in the second though. I also want to add a funny note that, in contrast to the passage I just read that in the introduction, Buell says his purpose in writing the book is to quote bring us into a closer relation with and a better understanding and appreciation of the mysterious and

infinite wisdom of Nature's God. I mean that certainly sounds like a devil created tree. There ever is such a thing, But anyway, um So Mule says that a gentleman of his acquaintance who lived sometime in Central America affirms the existence of a plant like this there, except with a

few variations. So he says that instead of lying on the ground, the filaments of the plant quote moved themselves constantly in the air, like so many huge serpents in an angry discussion, occasionally darting from side to side as if striking at an imaginary foe. Now that sounds completely that sounds like not a plant. Yeah, I mean the closest thing I can think of that is, say, like a pussy willow with with the wind blowing through it,

you know, right. But anyway, He goes on to describe how this tree would crush its prey and an embraceive spines, and he compares it to the method of execution from

alleged medieval torture dungeons known as the iron maiden. He also claims that in some regions the locals are said to punish criminals by casting them into the tree, which is, to anybody practicing witchcraft, you go straight into the tree, and that the plant is known as yatte vo Spanish for I see you, though I double checked the translation. Apparently it has a tensed inflection really meaning I already

see you, which is even a little creepier. I do like that a and almost certainly non existent man eating plant. The comparison is made to the almost certainly non existent, at least functional and functional terms iron maiden. Yeah, yeah, that that is the case, right, Like I've heard, there's no good evidence that iron maidens were actually used. That is my understanding. That they became kind of you know, they became it. They were an invention and then took

on a new life. Is kind of a fetish item for those that wish to possess tortuous objects. Weird anyway. I hate to be a downer, but I think we can be pretty certain that this is all about of nonsense like this. This just sounds like complete fabrication. There may be maybe or maybe massive, massive exaggerations of something people actually saw that was in reality, nothing like what's

being described. There are no trees with killer squid tentacles that we know of, and I don't even I think we can just say there are no such trees, because it doesn't make any biological sense to have trees with writhing tentacles that move around constantly. Yeah. The closest thing I can think after this would it would be the fact that, yes, vines grow on the ground, and you could trip over a vine, you're like becoming tangled, and you could hit your head on a rock or Yeah,

sort of passive entrapment. That makes more sense, but hardly a scenario that that I could see plants evolving to utilize as part of their you know, their primary survival um tactic. Right. But we will talk about the biological possibilities of such a you know, megafauna eating plant later on in this episode. But we should say that the Yatte Veo and and Bules accounts here are not the only supposedly true accounts, or at least presented as true by the by the recounters of of these man eating

plants or these giant killer trees. Yeah, and these next two examples, like our previous two examples, are exotic trees and a foreign land as experienced or at least related by Westerners. So there's the Madagascar tree. And this is something of a sensation at the time, appearing in publications

of the eighteen seventies. The idea here was that you had Western missionaries led by a German explorer called Carl Leachy, and they accounted a tribe of cave dwelling tribespeople in Madagascar who made sacrifices to a man eating plant um. There's a fun quote from this so where we talk about the atrocious cannibal tree that had been so inert and dead came to sudden savage life, the slender, delicate

palpy with the fury of starved serpents. Ever, the moment over her head then, as if instinct with demonic intelligence, fastened upon her in sudden coils round and round her neck and arms. Then while her awful screams and yet more awful laughter rose wildly to be instantly strangled down

again into a gurgling moan. The tendrils, one after another, like great green serpents, with brutal energy and infernal rapidity, rose retracted themselves and wrapped her about in fold after fold, ever tightening with cruel swiftness and savage tenacity of anaconda's fastening upon their prey. And whoever wrote it, because that's one tremendous run on sentence, I love it. It's true. You can't stop for a breath. That that is obviously some sensational detail that does not sound like like an

account intending on clinical accuracy. Yeah, I I do not buy it for seconds. Though some people have the plant has achieved something of cryptid status. Even the only seventh governor of Michigan, Chase Osborne, claimed that it was legit, but no evidence has ever been presented, and it seems to have been a little more than a literary fabrication. Yeah. That just seems like another one of those kind of

like Eurocentric stories of the exotic weirdness of other lands. Yeah, I mean another example, and I'm not going to go into the video on this one, but Phil Robinson in eighty one, writing in Under the Punka described tales of man eating trees in southern Egypt, and this one is called the Nubian tree Um. Yeah. I all these accounts, they really they have this sort of ickiness to it of, oh, well,

a Westerner of being. Westerners live in a special land where trees know their place and we're we're above even predation by by other vertebrates. But but it's like everybody wants these things to exist, Like you can't stand the idea that they're not real. You just don't want them to be near you. They're they're hidden in some other place where you don't live, a savage land full of savage people, according to these recounter. Yeah, and I'm not trying to say that that's like the the only element

at play here. I mean, also, just like the idea of man eating plants is really cool. I don't want to suggest that the desire to encounter a man eating tree is necessarily linked to some kind of colonial xenophobia, right, but but I feel like there are some elements there that are that are little achy to to modern readers.

All Right, well, you know, on that note, let's take a quick break, and when we come back, we will we will ask the question, indeed, a question that the glen Danzig may have asked, Uh, why do plants kill? All right, we're back. Tell me, Joe, why do why do the plants kill? Well, that is a good question because in the realm of the well known, of course, there are plants that kill. Right, So we've been talking about trees that prey on humans in in these legendary

accounts that are pretty obviously false. But there are plants that kill, not just with defend sieve toxins and thorns, but with predatory tactics. They've got specially designed morphological features to trap, poison, paralyzed, dissolve, and digest prey animals, generally insects. These are the predatory flora, if you will, the eaters. So let's discuss a few scientific facts about the eaters. First, I think we should ask the question why would a plant kill to eat? I mean, think about it for

a second. A defining feature of what makes a plant the plant kingdom is the fact that plants, unlike us, are autotrophs. They make their own food, so the energy that they need to survive they get from photosynthesis. There's energy and the sunlight coming down from the sky, and they use that energy from pure sunlight to create a chemical reaction where they react carbon dioxide from the air and water in the end producing chemical energy in the

form of glucose sugars. I mean, when you look at the the energy economy of life on Earth, generally speaking, plants are the only ones with a with an ethical get out of jail free card, right like well, I mean, I guess you also microorganisms that are tropes. But but but everything else is having to consume something else for its energy, has to steal its energy. But here we have all these plants getting the energy from the sun. Well,

it seems cutting dry. I wouldn't let him off the hook too much for the for the ethical quandaries, because plants and will not necessarily plants, but auto tropes did some atmospheric engineering that led to great extinction events and killed probably more organisms than any mediat or ever has. But anyway, so plants get most of their energy from this harmless process, why would they ever need to trap and insect and digest it. That just seems like it's uh,

it's redundant. It doesn't make any sense. And to find the answer, we can look at where these carnivorous plants usually live. So most often you're going to find them in inhospitable growing conditions, the nutrient poor soil of bogs, fins and swamps, places where there might be plenty of access to sunlight, hopefully water too. But in the words of the old man from pet cemetery, the ground is sour. There is not enough nutrition in the ground. And so

what does nutrition mean for a plant? This is the first fact, by the way, Carnivorous plants eat for nutrients, not for energy. They don't need the chemical energy within you. They need your compounds or your molecules. So, just like human beings, plants rely on the environment for essential nutrients. Right, So, if you're stuck in an environment where you get plenty of food energy through sugar, but you have no dietary access to some essential nutrient like vitamin C, your health

will deteriorate. You've probably read about this on on old like ships, you know, the sailors or whatever. Exactly, So, without vitamin C, you're gonna start to experience some not so great symptoms. You're gonna have dry splitting hair, rough scaly skin, inflamed gums and gum, bleeding, nose bleeds, wounds, and bruises that won't heal. This is all because your

body can't synthesize vitamin C on its own. You have to get it from your diet, and eventually, if your diet is really deficient in vitamin C, you're gonna develop scurvy, in which you experience extreme fatigue, loss of strengthen the connective tissues all over your body. Like, your body needs vitamin C in order to make collagen these for these connecting tissues and uh, and you're also gonna have fragility in the walls of your blood vessels, which is as

not good as it sounds. Likewise, plants need essential nutrients to write that. They can't make everything they need to survive within their bodies. They have to get it from their environment. And one example of this is nitrogen. So most plants get nitrogen through their roots from the soil around them. They reach out into the ground with all of their roots and they pull up these molecules. They

pull up these nitrogen atoms from the ground. And if the soil is nitrogen poor or it gets robbed of nitrogen somehow, like apparently this can happen if there's over introduction of carbon into the soil, plants in the area can suffer nitrogen deficiency, which is kind of a scurvy for plants. You see with the stunted growth, leaves turning yellow and pale, and body structures that look kind of wilted or sick. So, if you are the plant equivalent of a vitamin C starved sailor with bleeding gums and

fragile joints living in this nutrient poor soil. Where do you get your essential nutrients? Well, you could snatch up and digest something that has plenty of nutritious molecules in it, like an insect. You know. And and we discussed in a previous episode, the Weird Mushroom episode that you see this exact scenario play out with with oyster mushrooms in which there's a nitrogen deficiency and therefore they have adapted to prey on nematodes and in some cases spiders. I

didn't know that. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And then of course we turn arounderneath the oyster mushrooms. Well, they are delicious. You never eat a spider on purpose, but who knows how many times you you get one down the chain. That's the old myth, right, the average person eats sixty spiders at night. I think it's crawl right in there. That's a myth, right, that's not true. That's an Yeah, that's an exaggeration of the myth on my part Alright,

So okay, so here's another fact about carnivorous plants. Uh So, the this trick, this insect eating trick, in order to get nitrogen and other nutrients that the plant needs. It's a good trick, and for that reason, the carnivorous phenotype evolved multiple times independently, so there was no one carnivorous ancestor plant that all carnivorous plants today can be traced back to. This is an example, or scientists think this is an example of what's known as convergent evolution. So

it would be kind of like flight. There's no one flying animal that all flying animals today evolved from. Flight is a solution that was reached by evolution in different branches of the tree of life, independently and at different times. Uh coast three different times. Yeah, carnivory in in plants is the same way. It's a survival strategy that's so good. Different branches on the tree of life adopted separately in separate evolutionary contexts. Uh. Let's let's go to a third

fact related to the previous one. Carnivorous plants come in a lot of different varieties. You're probably familiar with venus fly traps, but the superstars, Yeah, but they're not the only ones. There are multiple different types of carnivorous plants. It actually occurs in According to one source, I found at least nine families, nineteen genera and six hundred species of plant, and so it could be more by now. Yeah, I think just a few years ago it was I

saw a source saying five hundreds. So apparently just continually or discovering new examples. Yeah, So what are the different types of carnivorous plants. Well, you have a few different models, a few different methods out there. First of all, snap trap plants, venus fly traps, water wheel plants. This is the the iconic example of the little trap that slowly opens and then a fly lights in the middle and

the gates close over it. So it'skind of a trigger plate kind of yeah, which exactly has a trigger plate. It works very much like a like like I said, like a like a wolf trap or a fox trap or a bear trap. Right, and uh, and these are you know, these are famous because they're beautiful, they're they're relatively easy to cultivate or at least by the store and keep alive for a certain period of time in

your home. I had one when I was a kid one time, and I think consolation for the fact that my mom took me to a very long, boring time at a plant nursery where she was buying some flowers or something. I asked and returned to get this venus fly trap, and I got it and it was very cool. But I recall I got at home and I couldn't get it to close on anything. Oh yeah, I remember being I never had one as a kid, though certainly it would be the only plant I would have been

interested in as a child. I had. I had one for a while, maybe ten years ago. My wife and I had one called Monster Tom, and we kept hoping it would catch flies, like would be one of those things where you would let a fly live in the house because you're like, all right, let Monster Time take care of it. I don't think the Monster Time ever ate a single fly, but it was still a beautiful

little plant afp around. I wonder if the domesticated venus fly traps have gotten soft, you know, maybe they just don't prey on flies, like they just know they've got to have like big beautiful eyelashes, right, I mean, because but of course, these these are known as the snap trap plants, and they're not the only kind of This also includes water wheel plants, right do we say that? Yes? Okay, I'm sorry, but there are plenty of other kinds too, well,

like how about pitfall traps. Oh yeah. The main example of this being picture plants, which is which is one. I believe they have them in Newfoundland, Canada, and that's where I kind of encountered them early on when Yeah, or at least some variety of them, because they're pretty widespread and these are lovely specimens. The leaves fold into deep slip repools field with digestive ensigns, So it's essentially a champagne flute that's filled with insect death. Yeah, but

with it's got the slippery slide going down into it. Yeah, so the the insect light slides down Scott and the goo and dissolves, So it's it's it's kind of monstrous, but also be their beautiful plants. So you seem like a lot of botanical gardens. I'm always seeing them, often with some kind of chemical attractant to to bring the

insects in, to lure them down. Uh. And then there there's something I've read about the special surfaces, right, like the surfaces on the lip of the picture plant becomes slippery when wet, so it's hard to scramble back up them and just kind of slide, uh, intellectably down into the pit. Yeah, and of course it's worth worth reminding everyone, Like one of the key things here is that is that plants and insects and have had a long history with insects serving as pollinators for for so for so

many different plant variety. Oh yeah, there's actually a study about that I want to mention in a few minutes here. But anyway, the picture plants, Yeah, that's so they're they're,

they're they're numerous varieties of this. And the earliest fossil evidence of a carnivorous plant might be a picture plant, uh, the mid early Cretaceous uh Archaeomorpha longa servia uh was discovered in what's now northeastern China, and researchers are now split on the matter, with newer research arguing than it might not be a picture plan at all, some of the others, especially earlier papers, saying that, oh this, this is definitely it is a picture plan or at least

sort of a proto picture plant, And so it's it's kind of a problematic fossil right now. But there's a possibility other than that that there's not a whole lot of fossil evidence of carnivorous plants. So any dreams you might have out there listeners for a for like a prehistoric thinking out like a giant one that's eating dinosaurs or prehistoric mammals. Uh, well, it's not in the fossil

record at any rate. Man, that's bummer free. History gives us giant toads, giant scorpions, but no giant carnivorous plants. Of course, there are other varieties of carnivorous plants as well. There are lobster trap plants. Oh, these are great, these are They go by the pickle jar principle, right, Yeah, you reach in, you grab the pickles and you can't get your hand back out right or indeed, as the

name applies, lobster traps various crab traps. Does anyone who's ever used these know that the creature crawls in, but then it can't quit get out again. And that's exactly how these plants that do that with the through special structures m that that end up trapping the creature. Yeah. I think there's a certain element of this, and I think it's actually a type of picture plant, but it had there's an element of easier to get in and

apparently easy to get out until you're inside. In uh in the cobra lily, this cool example of an American carnivorous plant that I found. It goes in I think northern California and southern Oregon. Uh And it's this beautiful looking plant that has a has a picture and is in some way carnivorous. But it's got an opening on the bottom and then the top. It's kind of translucent so the light can come through, so I assume to an insect, it looks kind of like you can exit

through the top until you get inside, all right. Up next, we have sticky traps a k a. Fly paper traps, and examples here include sun dues and butterwartz. So the leaves exude a uh, sticky substance that catches lighting insects. Pretty pretty basic, but hey, it's a winning design. I mean, I've I've got the willies from glue traps because I know the stories of people who have you tried to use glue traps to catch rodents in their house? And that's just a sad. Yeah. The tragedy of glue traps

is that they sound humane on the surface. Of things not but they're they're not at all, especially when you when you realize that reptiles that gets caught in them, they're gonna suffer a long time because they've evolved to to to go a long time between meals. Uh so, hey, if you do. I have had to remove a snake from a glue trap before, and if you use oil, that will really help. I think I think we used olive oil and we're able to free a specimen. Yeah,

that's amazing. Well, well, I don't know, it's amazing. I didn't know you were such a hero. Robert. Well it was. I feel like, can you come get my cat out of the tree? Can you come get my snake out of a glue trap? Well? I have you. I have found that if I am if I encounter an animal with my son, I'm often even more humane, Like not not so much snakes, because I generally am going to

be cool with snakes. But this most recent trip, we came across some blackwood of spiders and like, actually three you're like really close to um to a house, and uh, you know, normally once the instinct that I grew up with is if you find a blackwoodo of spider. You go ahead and kill it because it's you know, it's a highly it's it's not a good animal have around. You don't want that thing bite me, right, I feel like we should learn to resist that impulse. I think

so too. I like, you know, if it's not hurting us, then we shouldn't crush it. So we just checked it out. We actually caught one and put it in a little glass and looked at it for a little bit and then released it further away from the house. But then, of course, there is one other major type of of of carniversus plant, right, these suction traps. Yes, these involve highly modified leaves in the shape of a bladder with a hinge door lined with trigger hairs. Uh. So these

are the ones, if I'm picturing them correctly. Um, these are the ones that kind of remind one of of pipe organs with a little bit on the top, like a little lid on the top of the organ. Huh pipe. Yeah, Okay, I don't think I've ever seen that, or maybe it's more like no, no, it's more like the I'm I'm comparing it to cartoons. I think in my mind, we have like a steam engine or something, and they have the little top that flips up on the top of

the thesaft pipe. Yea, yeah, kind of similar to that. Okay, uh so hey, let's hit the next fact about carniversus plants. Among the killer plants, You've got a couple of different major varieties, right, So got carnivores and then you've got the proto carnivores proto carnivorous plants. So what would what would we mean by that? A proto carnivorous plant is a plant that has the tendency to catch and kill prey,

but doesn't yet have the capacity to directly digest the meal. So, for example, there are some picture plants that do not produce their own digestive enzymes, but rely on bacteria to dissolve organic matter in the traps. And some botanists would class proto carnivorous plants as taxons that are part of the way. They're right there on the evolutionary path to becoming carnivores. Yeah, it's interesting when we consider that that many carnivore lineages, you know, they enter into the carnivore

game via proto carnivore lifestyle. So yeah, it's it's it's it's kind of like seeing evolution in action. Uh, and I can't help it. To consider the relationship between figs and fig wass that's interesting, which I think is a great example of you know, complex relationship, really a mutualistic relationship between plant and a particular insects species. I've never heard this mentioned as an example of of a carnivorous plant. But Robert tell us how it goes down. What's the relationship?

All right? Well, uh, again, it's a mutualistic relationship, but there there's some there's some nutrients absorbed to at the end of the story. So, but the basic scenario here is that fig trees need wasps to transport pollen from one plant to the other. The plant provides a fig wasp with their only source of food and shelter. Um. What we call a fig is actually a structure called a seconium, and it's really more of an inverted flower than a fruit, with all its reproductive parts located inside.

And after a female fig wasp flies over from her home fig plant, she has to travel to the center of the seconium to lay her eggs, and to get there she climbs down a narrow passage called the osteo passage, is so cramped that she scrapes off her wings and her antenna during the descent. It's just a real, real nightmare scenario. And then once inside, there's no getting back

out and flying to another plant. Uh, it's like like finding a narrow hole in a cemetery and climbing down into a grave, just ripping a bunch of skin off in the process. And then when she's down there, well, she better hope she's in the right place because fig plants boast two kinds of figs, male caprifigs and then female edible figs. If she if she winds up an

inedible fig, she eventually dies from exhaustion or starvation. She can't lay her eggs there, the stylus is in the way, but she at least delivers the pollens, which is kind of a cool cruel trick, right. Um, we see the mutualistic aspect here, but it also kind of breaking down right like the right the plant gets what it wants, but the wasp doesn't get what it wants. Now she enters the male caprifig, she'll find male flower parts perfectly

shaped to hold the eggs. She'll eventually lay The eggs grow into larva, which is then developed into male and female wasps, which emerge after hat ing. The blind wingless, wingless male wasp will spend the remainder of their lives digging tunnels through the fig. The female wasp then emerge through these tunnels and fly have to find a new fig, carrying pollen with them. Now, and that is a crazy process, Yeah,

it is. It's it's it's wondrous, wondrous. I had figs in in my backyard this this year, and uh, I thought about it every time I went out there to check on them. Well, wait, then, is it accurate to say that in some sense the fig tree is consuming the wasp that is stuck inside it. Yes, because this is what happens in the death fig um when a female wasp dies inside an edible fig, and enzyme in the fig called king breaks down her carcass into protein.

So the fig basically digests the dead insect, making it a part of the resulting ripened fruit and the crunchy crunchy bits and the figs, though or seeds, not anatomical parts of the wasp case. And he was wondering, now, one thing I do you think about here, is that a fig tree doesn't seem to me to be something that is suffering from a lack of nitrogen or some

other nutrient or or is it. I mean that that's not my understanding that it's necessarily suffering, but it just gets some kind of maybe even if it could survive without these wasps, I'm not saying I know that it could, but even if it could, it just gets a little extra boost. I guess it's like using every part of the buffalo, right, I mean, the wasp is in there, it's it's not going anywhere. Why not digested? Why not digested? I mean to sort of anthromorpi anthropomorphize the the evolutionary

process here of that. But it's it's an interesting example I think of certainly a complex relationship, a mutualistic relationship where it's kind of like thinking of it as a corporation. Right, So you have you have fig Tree Corp. Or you know, and they have all these different departments, and most of the departments are related to fruit production and and and wasp relations. But there is definitely a wasp dissolving and

digesting department. It's not the primary department it's on the basement. Yeah, it's in the basement, but it still plays a role in the overall company structure. Okay, okay, uh, and it's you always got to put the payroll in now. I wanted to see if there was any interesting new research from this year on on carnivorous plants, and I can across one paper I thought was kind of interesting. It's called Pollinator prey conflicts and carnivorous Plants when flower and

trap properties mean life or death? From scientific reports published this year in and it was studying uh, plants of

the genus Drosera, which are the sun does right. We talked about those the sticky trap plants, and its studied how the plants solve a particular problem if you've thought about this, If you're a carnivorous plant that wants to draw insects into a death trap, but you're also a flowering plant that wants insects to spread your pollen for reproduction, how do you make sure that you don't trap and

kill the insects that you need to pollinate your flowers. Um, I'm about to say a metaphor for this that might be the worst metaphor I've ever tried on this show, so so stop me if I'm going off the rails. Well, it's kind of like if if you couldn't have sex without the help of a certain species of live wild rat, but you also have rat traps all over your house, like kill traps, this would seem to lower your reproductive fitness.

So instead, what the drosera plants do and study is that they offer different visual, spatial, and chemical signals that selectively attract nonpollinators to the traps, so that they've adapted to have selective appeals in the traps versus in the pollinating structures. What's kind of like imagining these um, these hotels and horror movies where they cannibalize the guests, Like you gotta keep your yelp rating up enough where you

get more guests. Exactly, You've got to have enough real guests, but then at the same time, you need guests to eat, so you've got to find that balance. Yeah, so in in my horrible analogy, it would be sort of like having traps that are designed to to kill all the rats except your sex rat that you need for reproduction. So yeah, let's let's discuss the real carnivorous plants, the plants that really do prey on vertebrates. Okay, well we've got to start by discussing the alleged ones that prey

on vertebrates. So the one I want to start with is the Puya chill Insis. So, this is a bromiliad plant that grows in the arid parts of the Andes in South America. It's known as Puya chill insists. And it's sort of because it's a bromiliad, it's going to be a cousin of like the pineapple, and it kind of looks like a pineapple. It looks like a giant, woody pineapple with yellow green spikes extending out at an

inclined angle from the trunk. And it has been widely reported on popular websites and a few new sources that this plant is known as the quote sheep eating plant because it sometimes feeds on the carcasses of livestock caught in its spines. For example, there's ABC news piece about how the Royal Horticultural Society and Great Britain managed to grow one of these plants in a greenhouse in Surrey, and the story was about how the plant was about to flower. I think it takes a long time to

do that. But the article claims quote in the andies it uses its sharp spines to snare and trap sheep and other animals, which slowly starved to death. The animals then decay at the base of the plant, acting as a fertilizer. The RHS feeds its specimen on liquid fertilizer, and then they quote a horticulture is saying that obviously it would be problematic to feed this plant quote its

natural diet um. So despite these reports, most of which sort of repeat the same thin summary claims over another, over and over, I have been unable to find any evidence in the scientific literature that these plants are really known to do this to trap and kill large animals like sheep, And honestly, looking at a bunch of pictures of them, I'm also having a hard time seeing how this would happen, Like they look like they would be

painful to fall into, but not deadly traps. Also, I've read a few accounts of people who claim to work around the puya and don't report anything about this, So this makes it seem to me like this phenomenon of sheep becoming trapped in puya growth, dying and then fertilizing the base of the plant is something that maybe conceivably

could happen by coincidence. Like I guess you could accept that rotting animal flesh is generally a decent fertilizer, but it probably doesn't happen often enough to qualify as a real evolutionary adaptation by the plant. Yeah. And plus, I mean, there are plenty of animals that are already going to play prey on a sheep. And then if you were having sheep that are raised and basically an artificial population of sheep, if they're gonna be there's gonna be a

higher susceptibility to stranger on natural deaths. Right. Yeah, So I'm skeptical of this one. I think unless somebody can send us some really good evidence that this actually takes place, I'm going to say this one actually looks like a myth to me that has somehow made it into news reports. I think that is a safe bet. But then there's another one that is definitely not a myth, though we have to be a little careful and how we characterize it.

So I want to talk about nepenthes, the tropical picture plants. So these are pitfall traps, right, Like we've talked about picture plants where they've got a uh, they've got a deep well that has some killer fluids in it, and they want you to fall in and get stuck and die and dissolve. Now it's it's definitely worth saying that the natural prey of these plants are invertebrates. They're going to be insects. But some of these traps can grow like more than forty centimeters deep or hold up to

two liters of aggestive fluid. That's huge, looks like a you know, it's like a big soda bottle. Like with some of its various species having traps this big, it's sort of natural to wonder if anything bigger than an insect ever gets digested, And I'd say the answer appears to be both no and yes, and so like I said, first of all, invertebrates are clearly the main prey of these plants. Um they appear insectivorous by evolutionary design, but

animals come into the picture as well well. One one sense is more mutualistic, Like there are several picture plants that seem to have this non predatory symbiotic relationship with vertebrates like birds, bats, and shrews. And it works like this. You've got a picture and it's got sweet nectar all along the outer surface, and a bird or a forest rodent comes along besides, I want some of that nectar, And while it's hanging out of the opening of the

picture plant, it just happens to deposit some seas inside. Now, normally you would not expect an organism to have an adaptation that incentivizes animals to poop inside it. But guess what those feces are rich in nitrogen. Yeah, exactly the nutrients that the plant would normally need to get by killing insects. So there are types of picture plants that also seem to provide like a roosting shelter for bats as well, and the bats to do the same thing.

They poop into the plant and the plant gets some sweet nitrogen out of it. But with some of the larger tropical pictures, what if a small mammal were two fall all the way in, would it be able to get out? And if not, would the plant eat it? I think the answer is ding, ding, ding. You bet. This is this nightmare scenario. I encounter anytime I use a composting toilet. Oh no, those things smell bad enough anyway, yea, even when they go. I was in a really good

one last week. Oh, I shouldn't bad mouth thought. I'm sorry. I've been near one that's old. Really, but it's still horrifying because especially like in my case, I'm putting my son on it, and I was like, oh, he could just fall right down there, and then I guess I have to go down there too, like the fluke man, right, yeah, oh man, this is a horrifying scenario falling into a

picture trap. God. So here's the evidence. There is a photo and video documentation online of a Nepenthes research expedition that took place first in October, and they were going to Mount Victoria and the Philippines, and they were studying specimens of Nepenthes at in Borough e I when named after our our favorite at Inburg, endemic to the region

and with the species not and not Attenburgh. But they found one picture of this plant that contained a wild caught dead tree shrew, and they showed it in photos and on video, and a return expedition two months later showed the skeletal remains of the shrew covered in a sort of layer of first So essentially all the soft tissues of the tree shrew appeared to have been digested by the plant. So does the picture plant naturally target vertebrate mammals as prey. Probably not, but if there's one

on offer, yeah, I don't mind if I do. That

seems to be the approach. But now the real question is could it be possible for a real world plant to be the man eating tree, that the killer tree that would trap and kill large megafauna like a deer or a bear or a human being mm hmm, or even something like a raccoon, right, I mean, oh yeah, it's settling for a raccoon medium size because because the even the the bat possibility and the shrew possibility is kind of iffy, right, So anything larger than that it

becomes increasingly fantastic. Yeah. So I will say, first of all, I found no evidence that a plant like this already exists. We'll start with the bad news. But the good news, or maybe the bad news, who knows what's good and bad, It depends where he's stand on plants killing and eating humans. Is that there's some interesting leads. So, first of all, I want to consider the possibility of a proto carnivorous bramble trap. So I watched a video blog and this

is not scientific information. This was a video blog by an Irish sheep farmer, and this guy was personally insisting that the BlackBerry brambles on his land are carnivorous, or he called them carnivorous. I think more accurately you would call them proto carnivorous. But if he's correct, But here's

his argument. He says by demonstrating how his sheep become trapped in these brambles all the time, they get like they get their wooly coats caught in the hook like thorns, and then they struggle and they get more and more tangled in the branches as they struggle to escape. That's kind of interesting. I guess the idea is that they get caught, they can't escape, they die. It's kind of like what was being alleged with the Puya chilensis, that they would fall down near the base the plant rought

and fertilize the soil. Well, even if they in doing this, if they didn't kill the animal outright, if they even if they didn't allow starvation to occur. They could conceivably, you could conceivably have the plant just holding it long enough for a predator to come take advantage of it, eat part of it, and then but they'll leave portions of the creature to rot. Oh that's interesting too. I

hadn't thought about that now. I do want to say I'm not going to endorse the hypothesis of carnivorous brambles here because I think we don't have evidence that that's necessarily what's going on. I think you'd have to demonstrate that this is actually an adaptation towards which bramble evolution was shaped, like where they're similar wooly animals native to

the regions wherever these plants evolved. Would one of these animals rotting at the base of the bramble plant really provide enough nutrition incentive to make a major difference in survival and reproduction? Like are it would? The would the nutrients it provides matter enough for this to be an evolved trade that is targeted by selection. Yeah, Because to come back to the fig tree scenario, think of it

as a well run corporation. At what point does do the do the masters do the do the CEOs of the border directors or whatever, we're going to invest in the processing division. Yeah, it's like, tell me more about this, uh, this, this, this sheep eating division that you're working on this project. Alright, let's hire some more people, let's let's invest more in that, and let's bump it up in the overall hierarchy exactly. So I haven't seen evidence that that's what's going on

at the brambles. Yeah, but given all these questions, I do want to say I could believe it's possible that some bramble type plant could establish an evolutionary pathway toward proto carnivary and eventually full carnivalary, starting with accidental snaggings, accidental snagging of sheep and other unfortunate creatures that are

covered in suicide vel crow. You know, this reminds me of of a specimen the ninencountered in Arizona last week, and that's the Death's claw or harvardgap item, also known as a grapple plant or a wood spider wood spider. They're pretty gnarly looking. Um. They they're from the sesame family, but they're a hooked fruit. So it starts when it's growing. Initially it kind of looks like a weird green banana, and apparently it can be consumed. Uh we did. I did not eat one, but I was told that, yes,

some people have things they can do with these. Um. But it starts off like a banana and then it kind of splits in the middle, and so it ends up like you imagine you're like your hand making the devil horns and then imagine if you had super long, curvy fingernails on both of the protruding fingers. Yeah. And so what it does is when a a mule deer or a prong horn a horse or even a human

comes along, Uh, it latches onto the ankle. These these these the devil horns here latch around and it becomes and it carries the the fruit across you know, long distances, um, and it doesn't does not hurt the animal in question. And actually they seem to have anti inflammatory properties that are utilized in some folk medicines. But if this is possible, yeah,

why not a grappling mammal killing root as well? Yeah. Again, I guess we'd have to come back to the question of is the incentive there is the evolutionary incentive big enough to work on these powerful structures. Another way to ask this question, another scenario for this. How about a human sized snap trap, sort of like what I pictured in the grove of the killer tree at the beginning.

So imagine this. It's a venus fly trap, large enough to capture and digest a deer or a bear or a human like, not not so much necessarily like a little shop Ahara's Audrey too, but just a giant venus fly trap. Just a trap doesn't mean a thing. Yeah, it doesn't sing or a leap out, but just large enough to lay a trap that could snag a larger creature. Yeah. So there are obviously plants that move quickly. The venus

fly trap is one example of them. There's you know, plants usually exhibit very slow motion motion that's expressed through growth patterns rather than through uh fast moving of plant tissues. But there are plants that have fast moving tissues. You touch a fern and sometimes the leaves can close. The venus flytrap can snap closed. I'm not sure how big and how sturdy you can scale up those fast movements and plants like I've never seen a plant with huge,

strong structures that exhibit fast movement. All the all the ones I know of with fast moving body parts tend to be pretty small. Yeah. Yeah, anytime you you see the same thing when you're talking about johnet Gerrillas right, anytime you scale up morphology, you're gonna run into various engineering limits and you end up having to change the design in order to make it conceivably work. And then in some cases, is it even possible to upscale that design? Yeah,

but let's just imagine. Let's say, okay, imagine you can scale up fast moving plant body parts. Uh, still a couple of problems here. It doesn't take a lot of compression strength to hold in a fly or a spider, but imagine how many pounds of compression force it would take to hold in a human or a bear that's fighting to get out of a trap. This would have

to be a really strong, big, powerful plant. And I guess my question is why would a plant evolves such an extravagant morphological contrivance and does it even make sense to imagine how it gets to there? Because remember, carnivorous plants tend to practice animal predation in order to offset nutrient deficiencies in the soil. Right, That's the whole reason.

We go back to their growing in inhospitable conditions. They can't get the nitrogen or some of their nutrients they need, so they need to prey on animals to get those little, those little molecules. But what would an organism grown in such poor soil be able to attain human trapping size to begin with? Like, how does it get that big and that powerful if it hasn't been trapping humans the whole way would have it would have to sort of like be scaling up as it goes, catching bigger and

bigger animals as it gets bigger. Yeah, And why would you why would it? Why would it evolve to depend on increasingly larger and increasingly um, you know, more rare uh specimens? Why why would it would be making it's it's there would be there would be a tipping point where it would just be making its work harder for itself, and and therefore there would be less uh less, it

would be less advantageous to its evolutionary ascent. Yeah. And another thing to remember, as we've said on the show before, in evolution, we've always got to keep in mind, bigger is not necessarily better. It seems better to us because we like bigger trucks, but bigger bodies are not necessarily better. Organisms will not tend to grow larger unless there's a clear survival advantage or reproduction advantage, Right, it comes down

to what the environment will bear, what's competitive. I just just a few seconds ago, I I said evolutionary ascent, which we all and us and talking about humans. But that's kind of a misnomer because evolution, but in the same way that there's no evolving, evolution is not an upward or downward movement. It is just a movement um. And yeah, if you start thinking about it in terms of there being a goal other than survival, other than propagation,

than muddy the waters. So yeah, the the human sized snap trap, I'm going to say that that's something that maybe could be engineered. You know, I could imagine in the future if you're you're tinkering with plant genomes trying to create something weird. It's possible that that that's sort of a a physical uh, something that's physically attainable and

plant morphology. I don't know, it might not even be that, but even assuming it is that, it doesn't seem like something that would arise in nature, right, it would need to be a mad scientist who decided, you know, he or she wanted a large man eating plant. Maybe you know, an evil dictator who wanted it to live it at the bottom of a trap door or continue feeding witches too. Yeah, or or how about this, how about a bio toilet

for for spaceship gardens. So going back to the picture plan idea encouraging animals to poop in it like a compos bio biological compost, biologically engineered compost toilet. Or maybe it's engineered by a British nanny who is a druid who has had her tree killed with the chainsaw that she used to worship for years. She needs a new god, and so she genetically she studies genetics, she you know, masters the art of crisper gene editing, and then she

makes this thing. Or as she just merely entered into contract with the space toilets who overthrew another alien species because they were tired of just being pooped into. Okay, Robert, I think we're done. Yeah, we've got off the deep end here, but I think we've covered some We've covered some fictional ground here. We've covered covered some mythological, some cryptid ground as well as the the the the, the more solid soil of of actual scientific inquiry, and nothing

aid us in the process. So I guess we're doing okay. It would be a good way to go, though, it would be a noteworthy way to go, not a pleasant way to go. But yeah, it'd be good to be remembered. Yeah. Yeah, because none of these scenarios, I think we can agree, none of the scenarios of carnivorous plants actually sounds pleasant. All of it takes place, that death ends up occurring at the slow rate that is uh, that is typical

of the of the plant's slower approach to life. You'd really be hoping a bear would come along and get into you. Yeah, all right, So there you have a carnivorous plants um. Hey, if you want to learn more about this topic, if you want to discover other topics than we've done, heading over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership. That's where we will find all the podcast episodes, videos, blog posts, links out

to our various social media accounts. Does include Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, tumbler, uh, and who knows what will evolve in the future, will probably sign up for those as well and give you another way to interact with and indeed tell us about any fictional carnivorous plants that we may have missed or we should explore, as well as your thoughts on the

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