Combat Stims: Better Warriors Through Chemistry

in the languages of business. Boost your resume, grow your network, and advance your career with the hb X Core credential from hb X and Harvard Business School. To learn more, visit about hb X dot com slash how Stuff Works. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Seger. So, Robert, you and I both play video games. We do. We've both been playing Fallout for Yeah, I was playing fall

for Now I'm playing x coom To. But both have one huge thing in common, and that is that they both of these games involve soldier characters essentially engaging in sci fi battles and and then consuming various pharmaceutical products in order to survive. The horrors of war, to heal themselves, to avoid going crazy, to go just the right amount

of crazy to overcome the obstacles. My my fallout for character is a big time drug addict, like major issues with drugs, because I just constantly and like putting what like jet and psycho and buff out into my like system so that I'm like better fights and um and you can combine them in this game, can Yeah. So he's also or it's actually ah, is my character is she in this one? No? In Fault four, I have

a male character. But anyway, Yeah, he's constantly brewing up concoctions, little cocktails of stimulant drugs and then you know, of course and follow you eventually get that thing where if you take too many of them you start seeing side effects. So my character is to the point now where he's always carrying around whatever the like detox drug is, yes, and like popping those so that like he can sober up. Yeah,

my character she did. She never she never had a lot of stuff and abuse problems in the thought for but I did reach the point where she was having to carry around the the anti addiction medication and just tons of buff out, which is like the steroid that allows you to carry more items because going out fighting enemies, having to loot the enemies, and then can't move because I'm carrying so much stuff, I have to start using

the buff out. Yeah, that's an you know what, I've never thought about using buff out to do that before, but that totally makes sense. I usually just turned my companions into pack mules, just make them carry everything. Well. So the reason why we're talking about this this isn't the hasn't become a video game podcast if you're a regular listener, But we are curious about the science of combat drugs and where we're at with that in modern day society. And what seems to have sparked this was

a recent episode of Black Mirror. Yeah, yeah, the I want to say it's the fifth episode in season three, an episode titled Men Against Fire. We're not gonna go into any spoilers to that episode until perhaps the very end of the episode. We'll give you fair warning, uh, but suffice to say it deals with this topic in um and I thought a rather rather thought provoking manner, and so we did the research on this. We've got some science on military chemistry to share with you today.

The phrase that I came across that I really like is better warriors through chemistry. Um. It is a complicated, uh topic, especially in terms of ethics. And I didn't you know, I guess, like in the back of my head, despite the fact that, like you and I read science articles on a pretty regular basis, I thought that it was a little more sci fi than it actually is. Like my version of it, I was like, oh, yeah, like sure, there's got to be a drug that gives

you better eyesight right now or something like that, you know. Um, And I think what it's reminding me of is our episode on cyborgs. And one of the articles for this research did refer to the ways of using drugs on soldiers to make them better warriors as a version of

cyborg ism. Um. And and actually this is a good way to lead into there's article in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists called the Enhanced Warfighter, and in that they argue that there are four different categories for the potential enhancement of military personnel, and the ones they list our genetic alteration of the human body, which is very controversial, physiological monitoring, and a tighter coupling between man and sheen.

Pharmaceuticals was what, which is what we're mainly going to focus on today, and then nutrition and supplementation, which we will also talk about today. They they in that one on that's kind of a positive note, right like the other three or varying levels of creepy. But then oh, well, you know they should eat. Well, that's there's nothing intrinsically horrible about that. Well, it turns out, and we'll get to this later that there are some issues surrounding dietary

supplements of the military as well. Um, but today we're really interested in the pharmaceuticals. One. As of eleven, nearly a hundred and ten thousand active duty army troops and we're talking about United States troops here because that's where we're based in UH they were prescribed with either antidepressants, narcotics, sedatives, antipsychotics, or anti anxiety drugs. This is eight times the amount

that was reported in two thousand and five. I guess you could some people would just chalk that up to a higher usage of those UH medications in society in general. Yeah, I think I mean that's one one take you can you can have on it, is that certainly we live in a more medicated society. Yeah. But then of course the other side is that like this is war, and

war has always been a traumatic endeavor absolutely, um. And so the ultimate reason why science is reviewing all of this information is the continual belief that the government and the military must balance long term health hazards with the drug effects that are designed to reduce a soldier's risk for injury or death. So, of course you want to make sure that your soldiers survived the experience, but you also want to make sure that in the long term

when they get back, they're they're healthy both physically and mentally. Um, that you're not subjecting them to something that they didn't sign up for. Yeah, because you know, we we turned to these sci fi examples. But a real life soldier is not a space marine. It's not this, uh, this inhuman individual who goes out and just battles bad guys his or her entire life and you know, and it

doesn't have a family or other concerns. There are individuals who who go off into this endeavor and then I want to come back, expect you to come back and have, if not a completely civilian life, then at least have these these non warfare modules to their existence. Yeah. Well, one of the articles that I read described it as it might have actually been this atomic scientists one. Um. They said, you know, we need to remember that these

are people and not machines. Um. And yeah, like you may, military officials may treat them like machines, like when they're strategizing war. Right. But yeah, like you said, like they you eventually want them to be able to return to civilian life, and presumably so do they. Yeah, it's not something you have to worry about an x com right exactly, nor in fallout. There's no real civilian life except for I don't know, hanging out on the beach with your with your dog. I guess that's a little bit of

a civilian life. Us. You could the game is open enough that you could carve out a civilian life. But you can get married or where I don't know, married isn't the right term. But I have multiple uh uh spouses throughout the waste land. Oh well, my character is polygamous in that. Uh So, yeah, let's get into it. Better warriors through chemistry. So for military officials, performance enhancing drugs are seen as the key to the success of

military conflicts. What they're imagining is the ability to keep soldiers fighting for days at a time without rest and with the ability to perform in ways beyond the level of most of today's enlisted people. Specifically, we're talking about the ability to operate without sleep. That is seen as a game changer for military affairs, and it changes the concept of what is referred to in strategy as operational tempo. This is beyond dealing with sleep deprivation in PTSD as well.

There are also hopes that chemistry will allow soldiers to reduce their acclimatization to high altitudes or to being under water. And of course, if you're a soldier, why wouldn't you take a performance enhancing drug that's going to increase your

chance of coming home alive? Right, Um, So there shouldn't be I'd like to stress this, like, there shouldn't be like negative value judgments on the soldiers that are doing this, especially like in some cases we'll find out like it is required of them as part of their military service.

But the reason why it's becoming more prevalent is we're moving into this era where more wars are going to be fought using attack aircraft that are flown for really long distances, and as more adversaries developed ballistic missile technology, we are going to attack from further away. Right, there will be further back, longer flights. And you'll find out today like a lot of what we're going to talk about with stimulant uses is based around air force pilots,

long flights, long bomber runs. Historically, that sort of thing. Uh. And so according to ABC News in two thousand and seven, the military spent a hundred million dollars a year. That was ten years ago, so it's probably I don't know what it's up to now. I couldn't find research on that, but they were spending that much money a year on research to find ways to reduce soldiers need for sleep while retaining their cognitive functions. So that's hugely important to them. Um,

So let's segue into this. That is of course a major reason to stay alert, to be motivated, But what are the other reasons? Why would you What are the other reasons you would take various drugs? Right? We think about like the video game ones. While there's like healing drugs or strong drugs, steroids, Uh, there's ones that slow down time. I don't think we have those in real life yet not not exactly um like I guess you could say relative relativistically speaking. But and then there's those

that make you work se as well. I'm reminded again, like time and time again, of the the old adage that that a battle is one not necessarily by large, sweeping advantages, but by a whole lot of small, sometimes petty advantages that are stacked one on top of the other. So like every advantage that you can take, you take because it it all can add up and uh and and so it's kind of like filling out the character sheet of the average soldier is like, yeah, of course

we're gonna buff that stat. Of course we're gonna buff that stat. If we can buff that stat, will buffet because buffing all of these stats improves the potential for victory and both small and large victory, and of course survivability of the soldier. Now we run into their additional concerns when you start talking about long term survivability and start talking about mental health. But we'll get into some of that. Yeah, but I never thought about that before.

It is we're what we're talking about is essentially like the minimaxing of warfare in the same way that like people do with video games like World of Warcraft or or tabletop games like D and D or something like that, And like they're they're trying to fine tune uh their warrior so that like it has all of the advantages available to it, right, all the tools in the toolbox are there. Uh, well, outside of being alert and motivated,

of course, being better and stronger and faster. Right the old Daft Punk song, Uh, that is hugely important war for the most part, outside of well, even with drone drone use in some cases, I mean, you're still talking about war as a physical exercise. Yeah, So steroid use is up in military personnel, and in two thousand eight it was one point nine percent. Uh, in two thousand two it was only point nine percent, So there seems

to be a gradual rise going on there. But let's be clear, the possession of steroids without a doctor's prescription actually counts as a violation of the Uniform Code of Justice. But some soldiers take them anyways to enhance their physical abilities during combat. Again, as I was saying earlier, like if you think that's gonna increase your chances of coming home alive. That makes sense, right, Uh, so they get them smuggled in mail order packages or they pass them

along by American contractors. But officials really keen to a whole lot about this because it apparently would cost hundreds of dollars just to screen each package in person, which is outside of you know, the military's budget. The most popular one. And I read this and I thought, wait a minute, that's not steroid. Is five hour energy, which you know you see commercials for all the time. We keep boxes of it here at work. That's right, yeah, we do. Um get this, the military alone makes up

nine point two million dollars of that company's sales. But then this is even crazier. That's only one percent of their annual sales. I had no idea five hour energy drink was that big man, I mean me neither. I mean I know that it is everywhere, like literally, anywhere you can buy something, there's gonna be a little a little cube of those tiny bottles. So there's a lot of it being used in the military, But it's also only a fraction of what that company is selling to

the world. I think I've maybe had it once. Um, it's just never been appealing to me, But well, it's not supposed to taste of right, Yeah, yeah, I have. I've taken them more times than I than you care to admit, would care to admit her account in my head? Um, But you know that's the thing is like, sometimes it's like, all right, I can shoot this thing, or I cannot shoot this thing. If I shoot this thing, I'm gonna

have a momentary scowl on my face. But maybe have you know a few more hours of energy to devote to this test? Well in the concern and again like five hour energy. I just kind of thought of it as being like red Bull. But apparently the concern is that the drink is actually impairing personnel performance and it causes soldiers to sleep less, so much so that they're dozing off while they're on duty. So there is a

little bit of a problem associated with it. Some soldiers also take over the counter diet pills, diuretics, and laxatives. This is what I was talking about, nutritional supplements so they can meet the military's weight and fitness guidelines. I didn't think about this either. So a two thousand three U. S. Army Research Institute study on non prescriptions supplement use. Found that nine of Special Forces soldiers used supplements of some sort, so that's a lot um six sorry, seventy of support

soldiers also used them. And then the big example that popped up here that made it that highlighted it tennis player Maria Sharapova. Do you remember this when she used a drug during like a tennis I think it was the Australian Open maybe um and so she was subsequently banned from this. It's a drug that was developed by the Soviet military during their invasion of Afghanistan so that their soldiers could focus under stress. And it's called meldoni um.

It's used to treat heart disease and other chronic conditions pretty much on a regular basis in Russia and Eastern Europe. It's also referred to as mill drawn eight and it was developed by a guy named Ivars Kelvin's when he was studying mechanisms of stress on the human body. Well, so it was used in Afghanistan by Russian soldiers because

it helped them with high altitude oxygen deprivation. Now to be clear here, Sharapova said the reason why she took it was because she had a family history of diabetes and low magnesium levels. She wasn't even aware that it was illegal outside of Russia. Calvin's the guy who invented it, essentially. For his part, he said, he doesn't even think that it should qualify as as being something that provides an

unfair athletic advantage. So there's a lot of little little ways out there, from five hour energy drink to these like obscure Russian medications soldiers can take to enhance their performance. It's interesting and looking at both this um this Russian medication and the use of the five hour energy drinks because we kind of get into this whole uh like the hopeless Ebo effect again, and and and sort of just putting a mild supernatural faith in whatever you're taking,

like is it actually helping you out? Is it providing an athletic advantage? Is it actually is it actually making an impact and your performance as a soldier, or is it just hurting you when the pendulum swings back the

other way? It's uh an open question. I didn't add this to the notes here, but one of the articles that I was reading, like, I was talking about how when he was at West Point he was basically doing like an op ed piece for The New York Times about his experience in the military and the various drugs that came along his way while he was serving, and he said it started when he was at West Point and that, like everybody where, it was taking adderall to help them to just be able to take their tests

and do the physical uh, you know, completion of of their service required there. So yeah, I think it starts early. It seems like it's common. But like you said, I mean Adderall five hour energy drinks, Like this is stuff people I went to high school with. You know, we're using We didn't have five hour energy back then. It was different stuff. But uh, you know what I mean, Like, it's not like they're shooting heroin to get through classes. Yeah,

I mean, I mean Adderall is a prescription medication. Yeah, it's pretty pretty potent stuff, it is. Yeah. That and and that actually leads us, speaking of heroin, uh to the next reason why a soldier would need drugs to kill pain obviously. Yeah. Physical, It's like you said, war is a physical is a physical enterprise, and it's a bit of physical enterprise in which both sides are trying

to hurt and kill the other. So they're gonna be injuries, and you're gonna want to kill the pain in those injuries. So combat medics often prescribe pain killers, and that includes ox, cotton, vicodin, and morphine. Uh And in fact, like on a long term basis to like they'll give them, you know, prescriptions that last for a number of days so that they

can keep them on their feet. And this has always been a h an issue soldiers coming coming back from the war effort having to deal with injuries, having some sort of medication uh in in in the mix and it becoming a problem. Like I'm always so reminded of the John Priyan song Samstone, I don't know that one of the most depressing songs you ever heard, with the about a guy who comes back from the war addicted to morphine, with the course there's a hole in Daddy's

arm where all the money goes. It's a wonderful song, but it'll it'll destroy yourself. Well yeah, I mean it's a very real thing. And of course, the military doesn't want an injured soldier to leave the war zone, so they've designed these pharmaceutical prescriptions so that soldiers stay on their feet. They're they're continually in the war zone unless they're you know, significantly injured. The downside is, like you said,

addiction and medication swapping is real common too. Okay, so what about soldiers who come back from war and they're dealing with trauma. We've talked about this a lot on the show before, especially on We have a whole episode out there about using m d m A to help

with PTSD. That's right. We also have one of the Tetris episodes that Joe and I did a wombat gets into ways that that may be used to help PTSD, as well as our recent dream episodes that discuss some of the ways that dream management software and dream manipulation could be utilized, as well as other techniques involving the selective deletion of memories. We also past podcasts to do with that. Now, there are a few different PTSD medications that are currently in use, and we'll get to those

in a bit. But of course, where is the post traumatic stress coming from. It's coming from the traumas of war and and this gets into another possible area, another possible reason a military might want to augment their soldiers chemically,

and that is to make killing easier. Now there's this is not something where there is you know, this is this is not an area where you see a lot of actual uh you know, research popping up was saying like, oh, here here's something that certainly nothing where you see the military saying, oh, they give this to soldiers to make them make them more okay with killing. But a great deal of the of military training is about trying to hone soldiers performance so that they can kill when it

is required of them. And then a lot of the problems with PTSD is sort of fixing things afterwards, because one of the things it's easy to forget, especially as we're you know, we're watching movies, we're playing video games, is that is that killing is not easy for the vast majority of pete UM. Most of us don't have the experience of taking a human life in a combat situation, so we can't even really compare it. We can only

compare it to these fictions. But it's actually quite a bit of evidence out there that backs up the notion they we have as humans a natural aversion to killing each other, and aversion that is that is present in typical human specimens and must be circumvented in the name of war, and a lot of of the evidence for this comes from military researchers who have a vested interest

and of course mapping and breaking those barriers from training. Yeah, again, like it comes down to I don't know, maybe this is a cress uh metaphor, but like I'm thinking again about this, like minimaxing of a soldier, right, and this is like you want to negate the effects, the emotional and psychological effects that would go along with you know,

any quote unquote normal person killing someone else. Yeah, like I come back to xcom or and and and X calm to where you're moving these soldiers around, and yeah, you're becoming attached to them. You don't have to treat them as actual human beings in staid. You you look at them, and you you look at their percentage to hit, their aim and their will, and you're in you're criticizing some of these character like why is that why can't

this one not actually hit any of the enemies? When why does this one uh panic and start shooting at random objects just to the drop of a hat um. But of course these are all sort of legitimate concerns of taking uh taking humans who are not you know, not not built for this, that have not evolved to engage in this kind of of of warfare. So here's the thing I've never thought about before. I wonder if there's a video game out there, like a first person

shooter type game that takes PTSD into account. Um, maybe there is. And I'm just not familiar to be something in the in the indie realm, because certainly the big blockbuster war games are seemed to be all about this uh, this fantasy world war fair where there's there are no real consequences to killing other individuals. Well that's so all right. A little bit about myself here is like with these video games, I personally just don't enjoy playing, especially shooter

games that are based down real life scenarios. I can have some demons or some exactly yeah, like make it like throw in some sci fi fantastic elements and I'm right there. I'll enjoy it. But as a game, but like, yeah, like the call of duty stuff doesn't appeal to me.

But then I think of like, well, what if there was call of duty colon PTSD, you know, and it was just like well, and I guess like I'm not saying this as a joke, but more as like I guess, like a way to make people aware of the actual like effects of what's happening to the people in the real world and acting these events and and um, you know, we just listed like all these episodes in which we've

talked about ways to help people with PTSD. We've heard from a lot of listeners who have PTSD and if I tried some of these things, we have tried other things, and it's very real affliction for them. So I guess I just am thinking, like, one, I'm glad that it's more out in open than it was twenty thirty years ago, and like we're able to talk about it at least.

But I think I would like to play a game like that, not in the sense of like, you know, uh, enjoying the experience of PTSD, but that it would be like a richer story because it's it's it's sobering when you're playing one of these games I've been talking about, like going to fall Out and pull up your your kill stats for your God and it's like it's horrifying because this character has killed your mess thousand people. Yeah, they're a mass murder they're they're abhorrent, Like even those

world is is pretty abhorrent. Uh Like they're a part of it and they're causing all of this pain and suffering. Yeah. Absolutely, Now it is opposed to real life where you're you're ultimately your average like kill ratio and hit ratio is typically going to be uh far lower. Yeah, so get into this. This is really interesting to me and I, um, I only learned this for the recent it's for this episode end. It's connected to the black Mirror thing where yeah, yeah,

this is this is interesting. A lot of it and again a lot of this comes from military researchers who are trying to to to figure out how to improve performance of soldiers. So soldiers tend to intentionally fire over the enemy's head or to not fire at all. That's a just speaking broadly about um, the more or less

modern era of combat. I had no idea. I didn't know that you have studies of Napoleonic and civil war fighting that revealed that given individual ability of the men, range, AMMO capacity, all that the number of enemy soldiers hit should have been well over fifty, resulting in a killing rate of hundreds per minute. But the hit rate was

only one or two per minute. Uh. This high firing phenomenon continuing into World War One, and according to David Grossman and Martha Stout in the Sociopath next Door, World War two fire rates were also low. Historian and U S. Brigadier General S. L. A. Marshall report that that the firing rate was fifteen, so that out of every hundred men engaged in a firefight, only fifteen to twenty actually

use their weapons. In Vietnam, for every enemy soldier killed, more than fifty thousand bullets were fired, so that one of the Vietnam was of course, you know, drugs, we're being used more prevalently than in the battlefield. Indeed. Yeah,

and it's uh, it really at all. It all underlines that like one of the challenges of training soldiers, and really one of the inherent you know, monstrosities of of warfare and and and military is that you have to desynthesize soldiers to killing, and like how do you do that? How do how what is the possible ethical framework for pulling that off? And then you know, and then counting

on these individuals to reintegrate into society exactly. Uh, well, so why don't we take a quick break and when we come back, we can take a look at some historical uses of drug in warfare UH and whether or not those provided an opportunity for those soldiers to come back into society. Everybody, it's getting to be that time of the year where your to do list is gonna seem like it is out of control. There is a lot to do, and let's face it, not that much time.

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mailing things. All right, we're back alright. So we've done an episode before on Aconite also known as wolf Spain, and we talked in that episode about how there were legends of berserker warriors that would rub aconite on their lips before they wouldental enter battle, which you know, if you've listened to that episode, aconites extremely poisonous, but it would like, you know, make their mouths foam. Uh, and they were basically going to like a death berserker rage you,

making them more effective warriors and combat or at least scarier. Yeah, I mean you you see examples of of so called berserkers in we see it in the Iliad. There are accounts of berserking American soldiers. Um, there's a there's a book by a psychiatrist, Jonathan Shay titled Achilles in Vietnam, and he says, quote berserking American soldiers invariably shed their helmets and their flat jackets. They had no other armor. As one veteran said, got rid of my helmet, got

rid of my flat jacket. All I wanted to do was kill um. That being said, the when we think of berserkers, we tend to think of the Vikings. We think of the norseman um. This is the classic idea, the classic notion of the berserker warrior. So our modern conception of Vikings is often a bit confused. There they were far more fascinating and intricate uh culture and people than we we often give credit to. I feel feel

like maybe in recent times it's gotten better. There's that Viking show that I think has little more nuanced to it. You know, I was just thinking about that. I have

never watched that Vikings show. Um. But like one of the things that's creeping up in the back of my head while we're talking about this, and maybe you the listener experiencing this too, is I keep thinking about like all of the various forms of entertainment that we engage in there about warfare, not just video games, but televisions whatever. We keep coming back to. Yeah, and vikings hit me. Game of Thrones hit me, like even though that's this

big fantasy. Uh, I'll watch a game Game of Thrones and they have those like big siege battles, like what was the one they had, like a huge one recently, Battle of the Bastards that was what it was called, And people went nuts for it the next day, like, oh my god, that was the best ever, you know. And those were not soldiers who were shooting over each other's heads, right, it was just this gory bloodfest. Um. So, anyways,

the Viking thing brought to mind. There's a comic book actually that really recommend called Northlanders, and it's written by Brian Wood, drawn by a variety of artists. But it's an anthology book about Viking culture and it kind of hops back and forth through different eras of Vikings in time, showing you what it was actually like. It's like heavily heavily research stuff, and I think it's a much more

nuanced look than some of the stuff we're seeing. Yeah, because if you look back and you read some of the old Viking sagas like these are intricate stories with nuance and political entry. You know, it's not just a bunch of barbarians running all over the place, because you had on top of all that, either this was a globe. They had globe spanning travel and trade. They had culture, they had literature um and perhaps we can you know, attribute some of this to a you know, a rather

outstanding and savage example of their war efforts. Not the typical Viking warrior, but this special class a soldier known as the berserker, so a berserker or a berserk. These were again Norse warriors. They were sworn to and but they believe themselves protected by the god Odin. In battle. They engaged in pre battle rituals that allowed them to enter into a frenzied state of supposed invulnerabilities, and they were able to disregard pain and wounds. And they served

as shock troops. So these would be these would not be your core uh soldiers. These would be the guys that ran in first. They were they were unpredictable that threw off your enemy and then came in the more dedicated troops it's been theorized to get to the drug angle here and theory. There are a few different theories

about what actually was going on with the berserkers. So one is that they utilized a mix of mead, so you had an alcohol and psychoactive hallucinogenic mushrooms, particularly the hallucinogenic fly a Garrick mushroom, is a popular choice among those who trying to figure out exactly what was going on. Others, however, have theorized that this was was more of a just a social exercise, not like the self induced groups stimuli of a of a sports team, you know, getting rampship

of amped up in the locker room. Um. Also, you know it could have been just the meat that they were drinking. Uh, that's another possibility as well. But but it's yeah, it's interesting to try and piece together exactly what was going on here because it was said that no iron could hurt them, that they charge and nothing could withstand them. Again, they were unpredictable. They'd how they bite their shields. Um. They wore only wolf skins and were sometimes known to fight with a blade in each

hand without care for life. The wolf skin is another Another possibility is that a lot of this could have been sort of not not only amping up, but a an animistic ritual where they start to believe themselves to be more more beasts. We're talking about that in the wolf Spaine episode that they're that that was part of it,

that they the association with wear wolves. Yeah, now it's it's often said that that the berserker might attack friend as well as foe because they couldn't tell them apart, and therefore they were both admired and despised because they only fulfilled half the Viking ethos. They were. They were brave, certainly, but they weren't completely loyal to their fellow Norsemen, like they couldn't be counted on in the same way you're supposed to be able to find to count on your

your your your Viking, your fellow Viking warrior. They weren't

wingmen right now. Another aspect here that's interesting to think of in light of possible um psychoactive drugs, is that allegedly they wouldn't remember the battle afterwards, and we're plagued by a terrible fatigue in the days that followed on that um And there's also there's another interesting theory and This comes from the work of Jonathan Shay, the psychiatrist that I mentioned earlier, and that's that berserkers exhibited PTSD that even in which is interesting because we think back

on Vikings and medieval war and it's easy to dismiss it all and think, oh, well, just everyone was just totally okay with the horrors of combat. Killing a bunch of people a big deal. But Shay argues that, you know, what, what are we looking at here? We're looking at states of hyper arousal following depression, inactivity, emotional deadness, and vulnerability to explosive rage um. And his argument is that you know,

we could be seeing some form of that here. So it sounds like it was a combination of organic chemistry and psychological Uh. I guess like community, like a communal experience psychologically that amped up their adrenaline. That's what I would assume is like why they were able to ignore blows and things like that was like they were so full of adrenaline that they just kept going. Yeah. I mean, you hear you hear accounts of of athletes where they have an injury and they're able to keep going just

because they're all there. They're all amped up, you know. The it's only afterwards they realized, oh wow, I really injured myself out there, and maybe I shouldn't have kept going that sort of thing. So there's that possibility now. On the psychoactive properties here, I've always wondered about that, like, like, what is the Is there really a combat advantage to being high in mushrooms in battle? It seems like that

would ultimately be more of a detriment. So you and I were sort of talking about this the other day, and I thought about it a little bit more as we were doing the research. I'd love to hear from the listeners on this, because clearly I'm not an expert, but based on what we've talked about, especially about treating m d m A, right, it seems like the benefit of psychoactive drugs is that it puts you into a state that makes therapy easier, and in this case, like in the m d m A case, it makes it

easier to treat PTSD. But I wonder if there's an opposite manner in which you're you become more trusting, you lose fear, and subsequently maybe you're more suggestible to being a better warrior. Maybe Yeah, it's just I guess I'm just so used to a the more sort of hippie

dippy interpretation of hallucinogenics. As well as having read plenty of these accounts about, say, the use of psilocybin and treating of various emotional and psychological problems, it just seems like it's hard for me to to think about the reverse of that and see how it would be helpful that you're taking this magical property, unless it's just part of believing one is magical. It helps if you have

a slightly tweaked reality. Now. The other possibility, too, is that it doesn't matter what the fungus was because you're mixing it with meat. And we do see plenty of examples of people drinking to get themselves ready for violence, getting too ready for combat of some form as well. Um the in fact, we have this term Dutch courage. Have you ever come across this? So that was a new one from Boston? Okay, so that everybody talks about

Dutch courage? Ok? Yeah, but rely this can This is reputed to have come from the Thirty Years War of the seventeenth century. English soldiers depended on Dutch gin to stay warm and to calm themselves before battle. Yeah yeah, um yeah, I have unfortunately heard it a few too many times before people got into fights. Yeah. Now another one and our next spent a lot of time on this one. But in our marijuana episodes we mentioned the

whole hasheesh assassin thing. Uh. And this was the idea that you had, Hassana Saba again right, that whole mythology slash history. Yeah, this is the idea that you had. You had a sect of Islamic warriors fighting against the Crusaders who engaged in ritual use of hasheesh before going into battle. Um, which again sounds like yeah, yeah it does. And and by all accounts like there doesn't seem to

be any real dated to back that up. The idea that the dreaded uh um Hashasan lawyers imbued in hasheesh uh seems to have come just from the Crusaders and they had a vested interest in downplaying Muslim bravery. You know what I'm saying. Oh, well, of course they're these guys were good and good in combat. They had some sort of you know, dark secret and some sort of help from uh, from nefarious chemicals to pull it off. Huh. And of course that's that kind of demonization of marijuana.

As we discussed, you would see that used later on in the United States, you know, the reefer madness interpretation of Oh, people are smoking dope and they're just going crazy with assassins. Yeah, because really it's it's hard to imagine from the yeah unless the one was I guess taking it to sort of ease the yeah. Right, it's like a tranquilizer desensitization. I guess. Um, I'd love, I'd love. Maybe we should do like an episode just on that mythology.

And well, we've certainly done our marijuana episode, but um, I would be curious to see if there's any research out there about the effects of it in terms of aggression. Yeah, yeah, that would be that would be a worthy deep dive I think. Now, um, let's move on though, into those who we've been talking about. You know, chemicals that might somehow make you like a little crazier in combat or

more efficient in combat. Uh. Yeah, but really one of the we keep coming back to one of the big calls, uh that one of the big demands in in the military is to simply keep everybody awake, keep everybody focused in doing their job. And I guess in that sense, like you know, squeeze more blood out of the stone, it is. It is very much the focus. Like I said earlier, you know, the the amount of money that

the Department of Defense spends on just this is huge. UM. In one of the New York Times articles that we looked at for research on this, the author research documents in two thousand and ten, by going through the Freedom of Information Act, they found that the Department of Defenses health care Services have written riddling and adderall prescriptions for active duty service members. Uh, and that these there was an increase in these by a thousand percent in five years.

So from two thousand five to two thousand ten it went up a thousand percent. It originally was only three thousand service members, and then in two thousand and ten it was up to thirty two thousand service members. UM. A spokesman attributed this is a military spokesman attributed this sharp rise to the increased recognition and diagnosis of a d h D by medical providers. Which you say, well,

that might be a good thing, um. And while that's true, the author notes most of those diagnoses, though, are in children, and adolescence. So is the military using stimulants to keep troops alert and awake? They definitely are, we know are. There's lots of evidence, but let's go through it. Uh, starting with a historical example, which I understand, coffee was

apparently prevalent in the Civil War. So well, coffee, of course is gonna it remains prevalent pretty much pretty touch any military encounter you're talking about, and really, like so many people's lives, like like, coffee is the thing that wakes you up, keeps you focused, gives you that second there, maybe even a fourth wind, until you just you know, you can't think straight anymore. Um, yeah, I mean, because after all, coffee is a psychoactive drug. Caffeine is a

psychoactive drug. Uh. And you know, despite the fact that it's everywhere and it's just we're totally used to it, it is a central nervous system stimulant um. It's and if you're a coffee drinker like like us, you can attest to it's the powerful encouragement and stamina that comes with a strong cup of joke. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, all right, maybe this is a bit of a side tangent,

but I understand that you tried for a while. What's that thing called bullet the bulletproof coffeellet the coffee butter in it? Yeah? Yeah, how'd that go? Um? I mean it went well for me. I'm not gonna I'm that's a whole separate podcast, I think to get into like the claims made by people who who who pushed that style of coffee versus what the research has to say about it. My experience with it was positive in that it it was kind of like having a you know,

a full meal at a cup of coffee. And then then I wasn't like snacky. But as for any additional or certainly sort of supernatural powers gained from it, I would say they were not there. And then we ended up just sort of phasing back into using just no our normal coffee and smoothie practice in the morning. But but but but still, it kind of comes back to like if it was if it was successful, it's really because that coffee was great. It's really because of the coffee.

Is uh is this powerful psychoactive studal And I imagine putting butter in your coffee probably tastes good too. It does Like some people like what would that taste like it tastes great. It's really it's really rich. Anything it tastes great. Yeah, don't be surprised when butter makes something tastes good. But in terms of like caffeine's effects on troops,

you can't. You have to kind of go back to a time when caffeine was was used by everybody, but maybe it was in short supply, or supply was uncertain, or in some state of flux. And that's what we find if we look at the Civil War, the American Civil War. So author John Grinspan has a wonderful New York Times article titled How Coffee Fueled the Civil War. It was published in two thousand fourteen and still out there. It's a great read. It paints paints a fascinating picture

of caffeine consumption during that conflict. So it turns out that the Union army absolutely depended on coffee. It was their their nerve, tonic, it was their sustainer soldiers attributed to their survival, their drive, and their ability to carry on. Uh. There's a there's even a general, General Benjamin Butler. He considered it a decisive srategic factor. He told another general

before battle in October of eighteen sixty four. Quote, if your men get their coffee early in the morning, you can hold meaning meaning if you can, if you can get them their coffee, if they can have their coffee in the morning, Yeah, you might. We might win this encounter. You're gonna be all right that it's going to be the decider. The Confederates, however, they weren't so lucky. Coffee

shortages plagued them. One British observer stated that it quote afflicts the Confederates even more than the loss of spirits or alcohol. Um. Still, Union troops sound a bit like caffeine junkies uh in in Grinspan's article, just rampaging across the landscape like something out of a Cormac McCarthy novel.

Here's my favorite quote from the article. Quote. Union troops made their coffee everywhere and with everything, with water from canteens and puddles, brackish bays and Mississippi mud liquid their horses would not drink. They cooked it over fires of plundered fence rails or heated mugs and scalding steam vents on naval gun boats. When times were good, coffee accompanied beef steaks and oysters. When they were bad, it washed

down raw salt pork and maggoty hardtack. Coffee was often the last comfort troops enjoyed before entering battle and the first sign of safety for those who survived. I don't know about you, but like there's just something about like a good paragraph like that about food. Even when even the word maggoty hard attack, I kind of go, that

sounds good. Well, you know, it's like, like I said, even though most of us don't know what it's like to engage in life or death combat, we know what it's like to have a good cup of coffee to

have a bad cup of coffee. And the reason I ended up researching this was because I ran across this thing called the Essence of Coffee, which was a horrible, by most accounts, horrible industrialized coffee product that came out during the Civil War that was essentially evaporated coffee, complete with milk and sugar, and everyone just described it as this thick brown sludge is obnoxious black grease, and the Union troops just have I'm just picturing like the worst

folders ever. Yeah, my grandmother, the way she drinks coffee, she takes folgers out of the can, pours it like, just dumps it into a cup, adds water, and puts it in the microwave and then drinks it black like that. And she's nineties six years old, as hard as nails. But maybe that's where she picked it up from. But at any rate, that, I think the use of coffee in the Civil War, like some ex antidotes here, it does help to sort of drive home just how how

much of a game changer having that coffee can be. Like, No, nobody's arguing that the coffee is the reason the Union army one. But certainly they had access to coffee and that and and along with that, they had access to various other uh comforts and provisions that helped help give

them the overall advantage. Well, like you said, I mean it's a um, every little advantage helps, right, And like again, like if we're gonna keep using this character sheet metaphor, it's like there's a plus one in some column every time you have a cup of coffee, whereas these Confederate soldiers they weren't having coffee, so they had like maybe

a negative two to dexterity. Uh Okay, So this is something that I was wondering, let's get into the amphetamines use, which is incredibly prevalent today and has actually been for you know, a good while in the last century of warfare. UM. But I kept thinking while I was here, I was like, why don't they just drink a lot of coffee? Uh? And you know, I haven't taken that many amphetamines, but they are certainly far and above what you would get

out of about. Yeah. There there's coffee, and then there is and then there's metamine stuff like adderall where it's Um, it's a if one is like a mild sharpening of the blade. The other is is it is a more intense like razor edge to it. I guess yeah. I kept thinking to myself, I'm like, why don't these pilots just get like a curig machine and their planes or something, you know, they wouldn't have to have these strong side effects.

And so that's actually what's been going on. The U. S. Military has been making use of amphetamines since World War Two. UM Pilots in the American military are taking speed, usually amphetamines to enhance their performance. Military officials believe this is necessary to keep them alert and focused, especially on long range bombing missions. We talked about about those at the top.

These are where they're flying for up to nine hours or more and it despite the potential side effects of hypertension, depression, and addiction, they still do it. Now. Usually what they're taking is decks adrene uh and it's part of a cycle where they take the speed for missions to fight fatigue. Then they take sedatives so they can get back to sleep. So they're referred to as go pills or no go pills.

And to clarify, these are legal in the military. The pilots are not required to take them, but you know it helps on the missions. If they need them, they're available. No go pills include ambient just to give you an idea of what they're taking. Some some of them are also hypnotics from what I understand, well, mamban is can

certainly have modly hypnotics. Yeah, yeah, uh So. The article that I looked at that gave me a lot of information on this was from Aviation, Space and Environmental Medicine was published and it's called Fatigue and Stimulant Use in Military fighter aircrew during combat operations. So the authors their concern was that most of the studies that looked at stimulant use and soldiers. We're looking at sleep deprived military

aviation that they were in situations that were totally under control. Right, It was just based on lab conditions essentially. Uh. So they were wondering, well, what happens when you're in combat? What happens when you throw variables at these pilots. So they asked twenty nine f one on five E aircrew participants to fill out a survey after their active combat operations, and it was about their drug use, their fatigue, the

physical symptoms that they had, and so on. And they found that stimulants were used thirty five percent of the time, so not as much as we would think, but you know it's there. Uh. On average they were taking about three hours after takeoff. They concluded that the drugs decreased

fatigue without significant post flights symptoms. I just want to pause and take a second, Like when I was reading this article, it didn't really seem to adequately address the variables that they were concerned with about combat, And they themselves said at the end of the article, look, we understand there's limitations to this. There needs to be more

research done. Um nor does self reporting seem like the ideal way to get to the bottom of of you know, how the use is done uh and and what its effects are and whether or not there they have negative post flights emptoms. Another measure that came out of this we hadn't really heard of yet. In between missions, these hypnotic medications I referred to those are being used to

induce and improved sleep. They also found that the reason that pilots were using the stimulants were because their circadium rhythm was broken, like maybe they had been woken up in the middle of the night or something like that, or they were on long flights like we described earlier, or they were trying to get off of the effects of the pre flight hypnotic meds that they had taken.

So these guys might have taken ambient or something like that, been woken up and then it was like, we need you to fly and do a mission right now, and so they take dexadrine immediately afterwards to try to counteract the effects of the hypnotic medications. So, as you might imagine, this isn't without controversy, despite being practiced for decades. In two thousand two, there was an incident. A lot of

you may have heard of this too. Air National Guard pilot bombed and killed four Canadian soldiers by accident, and the speculation was was that they had taken dexadrine had impaired their judgment. Likewise, an Air Force investigation in found that there was a crash that killed four special operators and that that might have been caused by the pilot using ambient. So there's some concern about this whether incidents like that will repeat themselves. And then again, you know addiction.

You know, like, once these guys are done, what what is this doing to their sleep cycles, to their personalities, etcetera. It's kind of like a like the no go and go pills, the back and forth and adding hot water because the paths too cold, and then adding cold because it's too hot. You know, you're running the risk of overflowing the bath at some point totally. So here's the big problem. Though stimulants actually strengthen learning and memory formation.

This works the same way when we form long lasting memories from our strong emotional experiences. So this is the big problem. These stimulants could be increasing the risk of soldiers getting PTSD because their pathologically forming memories while the drugs are in their system of horrible scenarios. Um So, just to recap, because we've talked about this a lot on the show, stimulants release neuro epineffern in our brains,

potentially enhancing our emotional memory and research into this. Do you remember on our Creepy Post episode that we did two weeks ago about the SCP we talked a lot about chemicals and memories. Well, there's lots of ways chemicals can form or erase memories. More neuro epineffrin enhances our memory, but if you add propran and al in you can block that impairing emotional memory. Remember we talked about rats

in that episode. When you tested them, uh, and you'd give them propran and all, they would forget about electric traps and a maze and get electrocuted all over again. So all of this leads us to the drugs that are used to help soldiers with PTSD. But also keep in mind some of these drugs might be contributing to PTSD. So let's take a quick break and when we get back, let's really get into the chemistry that's being used to

treat PTSD. Hi, I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson, and we're the co host of Stuff You Missed in History Class. We are a history podcast that tries to look at the things that maybe we're overlooked in your history classes, maybe not covered in as much detail, or frankly, maybe covered in a way that was not accurate. New episodes come out every Monday and Wednesday on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or anywhere else that podcasts can be listened to. All right,

we're back. So we already mentioned some of the more like near future forms of DSD treatment, but in terms of actual medications that are used right now to aid the treatment of PTSD, basically everything, it can be divided into three categories. So, first of all, antidepressants. These are of course medications that help symptoms of depression and anxiety,

and they can also and help improve sleep problems and concentration. UM, so we're talking about selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or s s r I medications, and the big ones here are Zoloft and paxel. Uh. Then there are more dedicated anti anxiety medications and either drugs that can improve feelings of anxiety or in stress for a short time to relieve severe anxiety and related problems. And because these medications have the potential for abuse, they're not usually taking long term,

and so they're their whole host of of anti anxiety medications. UH, they fall into that category. And then another frequently used medication is a drug called praso sin or mini press, and this is if if symptoms include insomnia or recurrent nightmares. UH, this can potentially help. Although it's not spec specifically FDA approved for PTSD treatment, UM, it may reduce or suppress

nightmares in many people with PTSD. Yeah, and we have talked about, like I said, you know, we've had a couple episodes where we this is one of those topics that stuff to blow your mind. I think, circles around again, over and over. Uh. We are interested in it, but it's also connected to a lot of different themes and topics that are interested in. UM. So one thing that's come up is beta blockers. They've blocked the effects of neuro epineffer and that's the propran and all I was

talking about earlier. They've basically stopped fear conditioning. UH. In two thousand, to a psychiatrist named Roger Pittman. He was from Harvard Medical School, and he led a study where they randomly assigned emergency room patients either with a beta blocker like propran and all or with the placebo. And this was within six hours of experiencing a traumatic event. After a month, they went back to these subjects and they said, those of you that took the beta blockers,

what's going on? They gave him a survey questionnaire interviews. Uh, these people felt significantly fewer symptoms of PTSD based on their emergency room event than the subjects who had not. So and and you know, go back and listen to that SCP episode. There's been lots of research in the beta blockers in memory. Uh. We also have done an episode as I referred to earlier on M D m A.

See see that for a real deep dive. But M d m A trials have been used to help survivors by increasing their trust and decreasing their fear in therapy. There is a lot of other options. Like you mentioned, you guys talked about tetris on another episode. Yeah, and uh, and I encourage people don't go back and listen to that episode if you want more. But Like the basic idea is interrupting the formation and in the hard coding

of traumatic memories. Like the simple version would be something traumatic happens play Tetris because because Tetris is an example of a game, an excellent example of a game that has an ability to, uh to interfere with the formation of those traumatic memories. Yeah, okay, So then the big question then is are there drugs And you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but other drugs that make killing easier sort of the opposite of this

PTSD thing. We've we've talked about some historical examples through this episode, but yeah, I wonder if it's something that's currently being developed, especially when I think about that Black Mirror episode, because we've already established that, like like fixing the soldier, addressing the mental health concerns that occur after engaging in in this kind of combat, like those are costly those uh, not only in terms of dollars, but

in lives like this is it's a major issue. Uh, you get into weird ethical waters, to say the least, when you start saying, well, what have we fixed it? On the other end, what have we just made it more okay with killing, but then what are the what are the long I mean the long term effects there are potentially even more monstrous. Yeah, it does seem horrific to me, and I just I can't imagine it. It's funny.

So for this episode, I watched that Black Mirror episode that we keep referring to, and now I can't think of it except for outside of Um. Okay, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and enter. We can enter into a spoiler zone for that episode if you if you haven't seen it, uh, and and when wished to see it, go see it and then come back and check out the end of this episode. Uh. But for the rest of you will go ahead and press on without without fear of spoilers. For Men against Fire. Yeah, so this

episode is called Men against Fire. Uh. And the essential premises that they have what would you call it, like a like an implant, a brain plant. Yeah. I think that there are a few key technologies that are going on there, some sort of a brain implant um a a of contact lens that alters their visual perception. And then there's also dream management software, dream intervention software that's part of it that's controlling their dreams, pushing down traumatic nightmares,

and even rewarding them with particularly pleasant sexual dreams. Yeah. And so all of this is revealed masterfully over the course of the episode, very slowly. Uh. The ultimate reveal is that you think that these soldiers have been fighting like they call them roaches. You think they've been fighting like I don't know, vampires. Do You think they're must first, because there's a there's a eugenics vibe going on there. The enemy is genetically inferior and fighting them is important

for the future. Uh. And and you see these monsters. You see like a firefight, and there they fight these monsters. And then uh, essentially throughout the course of the episode, one of the soldiers implants stops working and he sees that they're actually just people, but the implants are making it so that he and the other soldiers see them.

They literally demonize the opposition so that it's easier to kill them, and it it uh influences their sensory systems to like so that they're not smelling blood or they're not hearing the screams of the people they're killing. Um. All this to the end of subsequently making it easier for them to to kill the enemy. And now I now, as a good Black Mirror episode does, I can't help but think about this idea in those terms hard time

thinking about like a medication or chemistry. I didn't really find a whole lot that that would actually do this. The US Special Operations does have a memo that I read about outlines technology objectives that look to what are they say, quote ergogenic substance says to manage environmentally and mentally induced stress um. So they're basically looking at this as a way to and uh manage stress in the battlefield rather than after the battle. So I guess that

would be somewhat similar. But I think this is like a whole another level. Yeah, I think that what we see in the episode kind of represents the long term fear that anxiety about like tinkering with these things, because for those soldiers, not only are they they tinkering with their perceptions of the battle and of war and of violence and of killing in war, they're also tinkering with

their reward system. Like the final scene in the episode is him returning home and he doesn't see his home for this ruined shell that it is, and he and in fact he sees the woman of his dream on the porch waiting for him, there's actually nobody there. Um, So yeah, what when you start war is you know, it's it's it's part of human history and human culture. It's impossible separate war from who we are in many respects. And yet, as we've already established, like, war is not

a natural thing for us. It is a traumatic experience, it's a it's a horrifying thing. And if we start trying to change who we are for war, uh, you know, what are the end results? What are the ramifications there? Yeah?

It is obviously, like even beyond what we talked about earlier with the ethical implications related to the side effects of all of these different medications and narcotics and drugs for soldier use in battle, this one, most of all, seems to have a real philosophical like question mark over it, which is kind of like should we even do this? Like is it moral? Um? I think we covered Black Mirror? Yeah, yeah,

I think so. All right, So if you want to come back in, we're no longer gonna talk about Black Mirror. Let's close out. And I just want to say that based on the above of everything that we've talked about this episode. Some have proposed that there should be four ethical criteria for the use of drugs in the military, and and and these are the criteria. I don't know.

Maybe maybe these would work, maybe they wouldn't. The first one would be that the use must be voluntary, and that seems to be the case with dexadrine, right, like they choose to use. That sounds like a good idea. At the same time, though, I mean, you have situations where still where individuals can still be drafted into militaries. Uh so if there's if there's a possibility for a draft, it seems kind of ridiculous for like, you get into whole questions about why why do I have a choice

in this matter? But I don't have a choice serving in the military to begin with. Absolutely, That's that's the whole candle worms itself. The second criteria would be that the medication must be safe. H third is that it's use must be in accord with medical standards. Those two are kind of connected. And the fourth is that alternative measures must be utilized first. So I guess in the example of dexadrine, it's kind of like what I was joking about earlier, like how many cups of coffee can

these guys have on a nine hour flight? Before there? You know, it no longer works as an alternative. They've got to take dexadrine or else they're gonna you know, bomb the wrong location or something. Um, So I would just bring this back to what we talked about the beginning. Remember that soldiers aren't machines, and the ideal here is that they will will want to return to civilian life.

So maybe there should be some kind of ethical principles in play regarding whether it's dietary supplements or or drugs or even you know, if we jump into the sci fi scenario of some technological implants or something, what the long term effects of that are going to be. Yeah, And I think in general, like just in and this is me speaking, but as far as military use in general, I I love that fourth ethical criteria. Alternative measures must be utilized first, and I think the more we explore that,

the better off will be. Yeah. Well, I mean, given how much money the Department of Defense is spending on this, I would imagine they're exploring every avenue that's available. So we'll see, we'll see how this evolves. In the future. I'm curious though, Uh you are, audience. I know a lot of you out there have experience with PTSD or family members who have um gone to war come back from war. Uh so what's your take on all of this? Like the better living through chemistry for a warrior? How

how how should we approach that going forward in the future. Uh? Well, you can let us know. First of all, visit us on stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. You're gonna find all our social media channels there, Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Instagram, et cetera. Uh, those are all great ways to get in touch with us let us know what you think. You can also find all the stuff that we put out on a regular basis, podcast, videos, articles, you name it.

Those are all on Stuff to Blow your Mind dot Com. Yeah, and if you want to get in touch with us the old facton way, if you just want to send us an email, you can email us at blow the Mind at how stuff Works dot com. Well more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot com? Sven Sven