Are you ready for a neo-evolution?

I have a question for you. Yes, are you ready for the neo evolution? I don't know, that's a really intimidating question. Yeah, especially when I say it like that. Huh. I would probably yell ya if it was like, you know, like a DJ yelling it, because it sounds like the kind of thing you would hear, like, are you ready? Yeah? Are you ready for the neo evolution? And then everybody goes yeah, but yeah, are the Beatles? Yeah? Are you

ready for evlution? All right, so obviously we're gonna be talking about evolution today, specifically new evolution as defined by one guy. But before we get to that, let's talk a little bit about what is evolution. Yeah, let's go

ahead and hammer this out, um. And I'm drawing from how Stuff Works own article how Evolution Works, which is a great read, especially if you don't understand evolution, or if you find yourself in the familiar situation of thinking you understand something that is so talked about, but but you're not really sure on the the finer points of it. It lays it out really nicely, like most How Stuff Works articles handle a topic, but basically it breaks down

to three essential parts. First part is that it's possible for the DNA of an organism to occasionally change or mutate, And a mutation changes the DNA of an organism in a way that affects its offspring, either immediately or several generations down the line. So that's the first condition, right. The second one, the change brought about by a mute patient,

is either beneficial, harmful, or neutral. I think I've hammered on this before, but the whole the word de evolved or devolved, like the idea that oh in a post apocalyptic movie, people devolved in the monsters and Chud's and they did not go backward. Right, there's evolution doesn't go backwards. Evolution always goes forward. It's possible cases very rare. But yeah, but but but evolution does. But no, evolution doesn't really

go backwards. It's like it'll it's it's altering, but it's it's moving forward like it's well for adaptation is what I'm talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's moving forward and adapting, all right. So, yeah, it can be beneficial, it can be harmful, it can be neutral. It's still evolution. If the change is harmful, then it's unlikely that the offspring will survive to reproduce, so the mutation dies and goes nowhere.

If the change is beneficial, then it's likely that the offspring will do better than the offspring uh, then the other offspring, and it will reproduce more and and through reproduction, the beneficial mutation spreads and eventually becomes dominant and the bad mutations disappear. Um all right. And the third thing is is as mutations occur and spread over long periods

of time, they cause new species to form. So over the course of millions of years, the process of mutation and natural selection, which we cover in the first two points, have created every single species that we have in the world today, from the simplest bacteria to you know, elephants

and dogs and cats and reptiles. And yeah, yeah, I mean we're talking about his variation, selection and heredity, right and um and you think about it, even with us, there are about twenty five species of hominids that came before us, right, and we just happened to have the ability to adapt to our environment. Um and and we have done so pretty successfully. But there is a medical ethicis named Harvey Fineberg. He has a talk on ted dot com and it's called are We Ready for a

New Evolution? And he has talked about this this specific conditions for us evolving as humans, not necessarily talking about our animals or bacteria or anything else. Um. And he wants to talk really about what our future might hold in terms of evolution. He says that there are three

different ways we could go. Yeah, because it basically comes down to these three key facts of evolution that we discussed, whether or not they're still relevant in modern human culture or if we've managed to sort of elbow them out

of the conversation. Yeah. So, um, Like, one basic idea is if if we have through medicine managed to preserve a lot of genes that would otherwise otherwise be selected out, in other words, harmful mutations or or or just traits that would that we would eventually improve upon and and

would be again elbowed out of the evolutionary conversation. Yeah, he's talking about the possibility that we might not evolve anymore, right because as you say, we have, we've sort of tinkered enough that we've, um, we've sort of flatlining as a species, right right, Um. And then he's also talking about how we have made our environment adapt to us

rather than us adapt to it. Right. It's the idea that it's like, oh, the world's getting hot, or let's create air conditioning or let's you know, we even in our more drastic, hilarious and tragic examples where we talk about geoengineering or planet hacking, things like like like you know, tinkering with the atmosphere to reverse global climate changes, right, right, even with China and the Olympics, right when they were

trying to change the weather by shooting. Um was it wasn't missiles, but it was some sort of munition up into the air that would make it rain. So yes, we're we're um, we're manipulating our our environment all the time, right, um. And then uh. He also says that we're so interspersed that there's very little isolation and populations now that would

allow for the conditions of evolution. It's kind of like a Richie Rich scenario or something like the kid who has everything and doesn't have to grow up and maybe confusing involve and grow up arrested development as as sort of yeah, I guess you know. It's Um, it's the idea that, no, we don't have to adapt to the world around us because the world around us doesn't touch us. We're insulated in this bubble Umchi rich. Yeah, and it

doesn't matter. You know. It's like I'm not that smart, but I got all this money, right, so you know, I'm good to go, right. And then the second thing he talks about this, the second route we could take is just the traditional evolution. In other words, evolution is a juggernaut. You cannot stop it in somewhere or another. It's going to continue. And he says, particularly if we colonize planets, right, yeah, we're sending people to other plant and of course we could really go off in a

tangent here. But instead we'll just say see the episode titled the Werewolf Principle that we did about adapting humans for space, because yeah, there's this whole idea as we send people out to colonize distant worlds. We certainly have the the sci fi storybook idea of terraforming planet to make it just like Earth, which is it, which is

again ties back into that hole. Let's change an environment to fit us, But realistically there's going to be at least a little us changing to fit that environment, whether we want it to happen or not. Right, And he's saying, like, you know, obviously if we tried to call anize Mars for example, which you know, this is what we've been proccupied with a lot in terms of um, you know,

science technology. Um, you know, those are the conditions. You've got the isolation, you have this environment that is new to us, so you know you'd have to evolve in someone like and at the very basic level, if there were minimum physical requirements to colonize another planet, you're automatically

selecting for those minimum requirements. Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. And then the big one, which is obviously the one that he's very interested in talking about is called new evolution, yes, which we are going to get to right after this quick break. This presentation is brought to you by Intel sponsors of Tomorrow. All Right, we're back and we're ready for the neo evolution. Okay, we are finally ready. Let the evolution begin. All right? What is he talking about?

This guy? That's hard you fine, Bert. He's talking about new evolution as being UM guided and chosen by us. So what he's saying is that we are at a point technologically where we can begin to tinker with our own genes and select for ourselves, so we no longer need this randomness. We we can sit there and say, okay, self directed evolution, let's do this. Um. And he's even saying, you can see this in very basic ways, where people

are choosing to have more females than males. Right because we know we can do this, we can choose the gender of a child. Um. And he's saying, like, let's let's look at this in a more specific way. Let's look at genetic changes. Let's talk about taking out diseases like diabetes and cancer in your genes so that your children's genes could be a better, a little bit more

fit for their environment, um they would be healthier. And then he's talking about something called the one thousand dollar human genome, which I think is really an interesting concept. We all know about the Human Genome project. This was like a twelve year project UM two point seven billion dollars and they were able to um decode the human genome and it's had huge implications all over the place.

But he's saying that today today you can have a complete sequence of the three billion base payers of the human genome for just twenty dollars in one week. I mean, you're talking about the comparison there. And this is what we're seeing here is that technology, just like your TV right, becomes cheaper over the years. So what he's saying basically is and no time at all, the costs will be

down to a thousand dollars. You can sequence your own human genome, and then after that pretty much becomes available to anyone. So I can go in sequence my human genome and or my genome and see what might be in my children's future or what I might even be susceptible to and start to tinker with that. Now it's or to treat that those diseases now, which is really interesting. So this is what he's talking about in terms of neo evolution, is that we are genetically driving the ship

here rather than nature. Right, we are taking the steering wheel away from natural selection and all these other properties. Not to personify evolution done in the past a little bit, just sort of in the in the name of storytelling. Well, you know, metaphors help us understand, right, so at least it does for me. Um. So he's saying that technology can make this happen. He's talking about doctors Francis Arnold and Willem Stemmer and the fact that they have been

able to create desirable properties in proteins and cells. And this again is this directed evolution, um, and which they synthetically harness the power of natural selection to evolve proteins or rna to again create desirable properties not found in nature. And then he points to another person named Shinya Yamanaka, who in two thousand and seven discover how to tinker with human skin cells so that they behave like embryonic stem cells. This is huge because that could potentially morph

into things like heart and nerve cells. You could repel repair yourself on a number of levels just with these human cells and this and this, and instantly flows into a number of ideas we've discussed before, such as the idea of defeating death or at least putting it off for nine centuries. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And the podcast nine Birthday Candles, we talk about this guy named Aubrey De Gray who is a biogenerontologist, and in a very similar way, he's saying that it's very possible for us

to extend our lives. We can very now, very it's very possible for a fifty year old man now to be able to extend his life significantly, maybe even five hundred years, if we are able to use these therapies that are available to us. UM, So all be de Gray, Um, Harvey Feinberg, they're talking the same thing, really, but just

different ways. Harvey Feinberg is just bringing a bigger question into the picture, which is evolution, which is, you know, are we going to get to the point where we can so well manipulate our environment and ourselves that it becomes we become the evolution, but we become the catalyst

for it, which is an interesting question, it is. And and also just like what is the end picture, because when when I think of us changing ourselves to meet our own ends, I instantly think of of like people have had tremendous amounts of plastic surgery, you know, and and granted hopefully you would have more of an ethical guidance system when it comes to choosing our genetic destinies

and the genetic destiny of the of the species. Well we're talking about here is like a utopian version or a dystopian version, right, or just a really mismanaged version where you know, where people make sort of you know, surface level choices that have severe ramifications. Well, I mean the question is for me, I thought, well, okay, you can you can probably uh steer the ship so to speak,

for a certain amount of time. But evolution, particularly in um bacteria viruses, those are gonna going to continue to mutate. This is what I think at least. But then I saw that there's an article UM that was talking about professor Floyd Romesburg and he looked at superbugs resistance to antibotics like E. Coli, and he actually found that you can you can stop evolution in certain strains, which is

really interesting. He was, I mean, in order to evolve, organisms have to mutate, right, uh So they turn on the mutation process when they're threatened with extension. We see this, that we see this. This is why cancer cells are so aggressive sometimes, right, because they're they're turning on this sort of ancient pattern and trying to vanquished the disease um,

they're actually ending up splitting more and more self. Uh So, Romesburg reason that since mutations can be turned on full force, perhaps they could be shut off as well, and doing so, he says, would put a halt to evolution. Wow, an interesting prospect. Because mutation is responsible for evolution, are the underlying causes of cancer and aging. So he says, evolution is not an unstoppable force. There is a biochemistry underlying,

and it is subject to intervention. So I mean, can we be all The question is could we be all over evolution all the time in order to control every single variation um instance out there. So I don't think that you you could, as a species control evolution. This

is my take on it. Yeah. I mean it just also sound like anytime we talk about controlling of evolution, I mean we're still talking about either keeping it, keeping things as they are, or we're basically tweaking things as they are to become an idealized version of what they are, like a best guest, best case scenario for for the species as it is today, instead of allowing the continued evolution of the species like that, you know that I don't think we should necessarily look at ourselves as a

finished species. Well, I don't think that. Harvey Feinberg, the guy he's talking about new evolution, is really talking about us as as a finished species. In fact, what he's saying is that, I mean, his his real argument is that you could take this one hundred thousand year process of evolution that you see in humans and boil it down to one hundred years, and so you begin to select for traits like you could have the fast twitch muscle if you wanted to, and your child which would

allow you to run faster and longer. Um that there are certain things that we can twinker tinker with, But the problem for me becomes the question of like are we talking about trans humanism or are we talking about eugenics? Um it can get a little dark, indeed, And I mean also it's like, I like I think of things like like what if the next phase of actual evolution would be the the consciousness, uh, the illusion of consciousness fades away. Then you know, then what are we doing

by preventing that? Maybe that we would be better off if that was allowed to take place. But of course we've talked about I mean, if you're saying the illusion of conscious this is what has driven us quite a bit species, right, because we always need a story, um, and there's this the mystery, right right. So yeah, so

maybe it's preventing us from from just turning into smoke. Yes, from on a semantic level anyway, Um, yeah, I mean, and I mean a lot of the utopian and dystopian ideas pretty much speak for themselves, like the idea of us becoming uh, you know, twisted monsters, or or are we becoming this perfect you know race of of idealized twenty one century humans, right, we'll become just um, taller and nicer. Yeah, it's a possibility. I instantly think to the work works of both Richard K. Morgan and Ian

and Banks. They both have sci fi stores in which they have individuals who, through science have virtually don't have to worry about disease anymore. But they get bored so it's like among the sort of uh risk taking set, they'll they'll intentionally um get the flu just so they can experience it. Almost like we're a recreational drug. Well exactly recreational drug. It's kind of like the last high left to them is to well, I'm going to contract this flu and and to see what it's like flu

for fun. That's fascinating. Yeah. So, I mean there is the the idea that that humans need, you know, we need strife. We need strife to to feel compassion and to and to to make us, you know, do the things that make us great. And I'm pretty sure that viruses are always going to be there to help us. Without the viruses are not going to stop evolving. No, So there's that there's that factor to consider as well. That's right. Well, there you go. We've got some new evolution.

Are you ready for it? And are you ready for some listener email? Yes? Well I do have some listener email. Actually these are not emails. These are from our Facebook page where more and more people tend to comment there, and both methods are valid, but here're a few. Rachel writes and says, hey, guys, I'm halfway through your podcast you're so ain earth links so she had to stop halfway through the contact. And I like that. And one of you brought up the theory that we may be

living in a matrix type type world. Isn't it the case that if at every point of our lives we are dreaming, then the word dream becomes synonymous with reality and we are simply playing a semantic game. For a dream to be a dream, we have to eventually become aware that it is a synthetic reality. So if we live inside a giant illusion, say the matrix that we never wake up from, isn't the matrix just plain old reality? The question is the red one or the blue one?

Which one do you want? I forget which one he took, but now these are these are valid questions. It's really interesting, um, And I like the idea that someone would yeah, because part of what we do with these episodes, I feel like is we're stirring the imagination through science, through ponderings about trying well. I think we're doing it, stir in my mind and stirring these listeners mine. Um. We also

heard from Thomas. Thomas writes in to say I just listened to the Day of the Dolphin podcast, not one mention of Douglas Adams The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, not one exclamation point at captain by the way, I love the podcast and it is awesome on fifteen and I live in Texas and I listen all the time. Sweet. Yeah that we did. Yeah, we kind of missed the missed the boat. I'm making a Hitchhiker's Guide reference. I love that we have younger listeners too, and they always

have really interesting insights and good critiques. Yea that my main experience with fifteen year olds just uh through the ones that are our listeners, and it makes me think that all fifteen year olds are pretty smart and pretty cool. Yeah.

We also heard from Edmundo, and Edmundo writes and to say just listen to the Math Invention or Discovery podcast, and I was sort of surprised you didn't cover what Dan Everett had to say about the Paraha and the apparent difficulty in teaching them how to do basic mathematical equations. Their language only has two numbers, one and two, but even that is in dispute, as there is a strong argument that they just indicate a quote small amount versus

a quote bigger amount. Is this indicative of mathematics being a human construct or that the Paraha language socialization restricts innate mathematical capabilities to such a degree that reacquiring such a capable capabilities is extremely difficult. That's an interesting question, particularly since we're looking at it through the lens of our language, in our system of calculations. So you have to wonder for for that culture, is it a problem

at all? Do you know what I'm saying? If that, if that's their reference material, Um, yeah, I don't know. There's there's something there that we need to scratch out. I think it's an interesting way of looking at the world around you though, that everything is perhaps either a small amount or a bigger amount. It's kind of like only viewing films as Coen Brothers films and other films. It makes things a little simple, and we know that makes happiness when things are simple, right, and we that's

one of the reports out there. I don't know. Yeah, well, let me make it simple to our listeners. If you want to uh touch base with us about virtually any topic that we've covered UH or might cover in the future, or just some cool science that happens to be popping around your your your headspace. Then drop in at Facebook or Twitter. We are blow the Mind on both of those, and you can always drop us an email at blow

the Mind at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.