From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is no.
They call me Bed. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control Decads. Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. As we are joining in media arrests our exploration of the Eca Stones. We hope that you listen to part one, and more importantly, please feel free to toss us a review on Apple Podcast. Now back to the show. This is a puzzle that feels like it could be solvable right with the information we
have at hand. This seems like it's just a matter of rearranging the pieces to form a coherent, a coherent cognitive picture. But these are not the most well known things. These are not the controversial ecostodes. They're two different buckets. The ones we just talked about, the simplistic stuff, patterns, easily identifiable motifs, and styles of depiction. Those things are understandable.
The controversial things. The things that most of archaeology at large has a problem with today are the They're the ones that have I don't want to say fanciful. You could interpret them as depicting different species of dinosaur in detail, with human like figures hanging out with them. There are multiple instances of this, there are so many. There are also multiple instances of advanced technology, apparently, and not just
like loose interpretations. Someone clearly drew a telescope, someone clearly multiple times drew a flying machine. It is not up for interpretation. There is no there is no material nor folkloric precedent that would indicate this is a symbol of a god or something. It's clearly somebody saw like a plane of some sort and then popped it into a stone.
I see what you're saying, but I mean, you know, you could argue, if we are still on the side of like the zero authentic, that that kind of parallel thinking happens outside of like the ability for technology to create such a thing. You know, someone could be like, we know what technology is, we know how to make a tent. What if we just put that in the sky and like you know, had it like a like a sailing ship, but like in the sky with wings like a bird. We certainly have examples of things out
of time like that. And I'm reading a Isaac Asimov book from nineteen fifty right now. And I know this is obvious for fans of science fiction, but I'm always blown away by how close they get it in the fifties, like of like what modern civilization looks like and what technology of the future actually looked like. Some of them really get it right, and it blows my mind. And I'm sorry, I just had to had to bring that up.
That's a good point, man. I love it. I love it.
I love it.
Asthmav mentioned, I'm.
Reading the Foundation series.
I accidentally bought the second one out of sequence and then realized that, and then I ordered the first one and now I'm starting fresh. But I'm very excited because I haven't I haven't. I'm not gonna lie, guys. I haven't read a book in a hot minute, so I will report.
Now, guys. We mentioned that some of these stone depict also medical procedures, which is super puzzling in itself. One of the things that you may notice if you're ever researching this stuff is that there tend to be records of usually religious rights, sacrifices, funereal rights. When it comes to cutting into a human body, like you'll see imagery or writing about that, removing things from the body, putting things on the body when you're going through one of
these rituals. But rarely do you see a medical procedure or what would be described as a medical procedure in the modern day. What are we seeing here?
I want to set up, Yeah, there is, for instance, evidence of the practice of trepanation in some ancient cultures, right, which is you know, if you've ever had a migraine, you've thought about it, no judgment. And we also know people did survive some of those procedures, not all of them, I'm gonna say, not all of them. But to your point, Matt, which is excellent set up. There, we see that there are things interpreted as depictions of a cesarean operation, right,
a C section we call it. That's where when someone is giving birth you have to conduct a surgical operation to extract the child from the womb. And that happens every day, every evening. And these are modern nights. But in times where infant mortality was much higher, we know that a lot of people died because that technology was
not or that process, that technique was not commonplace. So if the ecostones as they appear to, if they indicate that this was common knowledge for some empire, then that is a game changer because that would show us that this sophisticated medical procedure was discovered and then lost somewhere in the sands of time, which is fascinating and quite possible.
Oh yeah, the modern cesarean section as we think about it, goes back pretty far to the eight the late eighteen hundreds. But still that if you could pull that off and keep the mother alive and the baby alive in those times with the tools available, at least known to be available, it would be like magic.
No antibiotics, I mean, that's it's created. No germ theory anyway, we know that. We know that by the time the Spanish Empire arrived and met the Inca Empire, there was not germ theory. So that is another question. To recap what we have so far. Out in a rural Peruvian cave or series of caves, there appears to be a collection of stones not only functioning as a multi civilization
depiction of history unfamiliar to the modern world. But they also appear to show that human beings interacted with creatures who look a heck of a lot like dinosaurs and possess technology and medical techniques far more sophisticated than anything else we know about during that time. We're setting up a lot of questions and we're going to get to them. But first things first, how did these stones get discovered in the first place? How do we even know about them today?
You know, one thing we didn't mention is that some of the depictions of human like creatures and dinosaur like creatures were a little more familiar than just attacking them, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, like maybe some interbreeding of some sort.
Yeah, there were giants in those days. The sons of God saw the daughters of man and found them beautiful. Yeah, there's beastiality. Let's just say it's fun.
Yeah, but in some of them.
Yeah, but it's there, it's it is undeniably graft that.
You know what.
That's one of the ones that's the least open to interpretation there.
I mean, if you look at the image, I mean, if you look at images of them printed, you know, it's like there's a big old blurt out section, you know, like with the bodies intertwine.
Yeah, oh gosh, oh boy, Yeah, that part's true. And that's actually uh going back to statement about the earlier two buckets, that belongs to the the more simplistic ones, the people banging animals, animals banging people, that's the more simplistic stuff. That's not like the interestings work.
Well no, just the idea of animals banging people. And just then there's an implication of agency there.
I know, but you know it can be done. Yeah, they we know dolphins will just about anything.
Yes, yeah, especially if you give them enough LSD.
That story for another day, that actually is out there.
We've certainly discussed the the works of what is it Lily?
Yeah, and we do know thes was triple the horny that any other dinosaur was. Sorry, very good.
Impact right into that one.
Every palaeontologist in the audience tonight nodded, solemnly.
Threw up a little in their mouths.
Triceratops the horniest of the So how do we know about these eco stones today? The story begins, this is weird. The official story begins on May thirteenth, nineteen sixty six. It starts with the story overall starts with two men. There's a farmer in the Ika province in Peru. His name is Basilo Lusha and a there's a physician son of a Spanish aristocrat. His name is doctor Javier Cabrera d'arqua. And according to the doctor Cabrea, he learns about the stones.
A little later in life. He has a friend of photographer Felix Josa Romero, who gives him one of these stones as a present for his forty second birthday. This guy does not know. He doesn't know paleontology from m Canna paint right. He is a physician's a good doctor, and like a lot of very smart people, he has a hobby. His hobby is Peruvian prehistory.
Yeah, and he's like, hey, thanks for that gift, man, how'd you make this? Yeah? No, I'm just joking.
And then he's like, how dare you sir?
No, But he noticed some weird things specifically, and I love that we're pointing this out. Specifically, a fish hanging out with some humans that should have been gone way before the humans would have even known that that thing existed.
Well, isn't that part of the weirdness, as some of these depict creatures that just their timelines would not have crossed in general.
Right, that's sort of the idea.
One hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, the so our good doctor gets his gift. Here's forty second birthday. You know, he's an eclectic guy, he's a renaissance man. And he says, hang on, I you know, I'm an armchair historian. I I've never I know enough about fish to know exactly he called you out. Man, He's like, I know exactly what No Brown's gonna say later. This fish would never have been around in the time of the modern humans.
Interestingly enough, doctor Cabrera never explained specifically what particular fish he believed this stone depicted. And I mean, I've looked.
Everywhere a rudimentary cave drawing esque style of a fish. They've got a whole lot of discerning like like a stegosaurus. That's a stegosaurus. But there was the fish that tipped him off. I just I don't quite quite get that.
It was a come on, we're all whatever.
I don't It's a little specific, That's all I'm saying.
Yeah, But also it doesn't start with the dinosaurs. It starts with the fish, right, that's how it's like scientology. That's how they get him in. They get him in with psychic just off the far enough, and he says, you know, we can only imagine. He goes back to Romero and he says, thank you so much for this gift. You know, fel to me, this also is an impossible thing. This is clearly made by Homo sapien, and it's clearly depicting a fish that I know did not exist during
the time of Homo sapien. Where did you get this? You must tell me? And he learns through his friend that people in the Ika province have been finding stones in a nearby cavern actually due to some meteorological phenomenon, and he says, I must have these, right, and he's let's be honest, no shade one way or the other. But the good doctor here is in the upper echelons of Peruvian society, so he can forward to have an expensive hobby like this.
Sure, So I guess I'm trying to understand his motivation. Initially when he said the thing about this fish, like he is suspicious of their authenticity or he thinks they represent something massive he'sfisious.
He is suspicious. Okay, oh god, got it. Gots making sure that I'm on the same.
Fish page.
Carry on, pay me, no mind, all right.
Well, no pun left behind. You're absolutely right. No. What he does here is he is intrigued, right. He doesn't suspect any scoundrel activity or cons or griffs or chicanery. He wants to know more because he's long held an intense interest in Peruvian prehistory. He's a good faith actor, as we called him on this show. And he starts he starts hitting the streets for lack of a better phrase,
and he wants to find more stones. He wants to find this cave in particular, he wants to figure out where this came from, because you know, if we assume his perspective, this is something that could fundamentally upend history. I mean, imagine, you know, imagine if we found something like this. We're on an adventure and we find something that seems to indicate people provably ran into Bigfoot or something.
The stuff that we've long wanted to be proved true, you know what I mean.
I mean that's part of this too.
Is that confirmation bias, I guess or that drive within us to like have our dreams, you know, come true.
Right, that'd be awesome, dude, if any of us found something like this, I can guarantee we'd be feeling trepid day fish about it.
I almost said, one almost swam right past me.
Oh buddy. Oh, And we'll pause here for a word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. And we have returned not just to the show, but to Peruvian conspiracies. So this guy, doctor Cabrera, he ends up purchasing more. But the word gets around and there's a pair of brothers, Carlos and Pablo Soldi, and they hear about his interest and they approach him and they say, hey, Doc, we have an interest in pre inca art as well. We
have found a lot of stones. He ends up purchasing something like three hundred and ten individual samples of these stones from a nearby region. And they say, look, we've been trying to talk to archaeologists about this. No one's really into it. They think it's boring or it's honestly not going to help them in their dissertations or whatever. And so he says, okay, I'll buy it, and he gets it for a song. He gets it for like,
let's see, this is the mid nineteen sixties. He gets it for the equivalent of thirty pound sterling, so like thirty British pounds that comes to us from the forty een times. So he gets it at a very reasonable rate. And he's still hungry for more stones. So he runs
into a farmer. Our second character we mentioned earlier, Basilia Usha, and this guy, this farmer, Basilio, says, hey, look, duck, I found this huge cash of stones because the Eco River overflowed its banks and it destroyed nearby a globoration of soil that exposed a cave. And I have also been tried to get the attention of the Peruvian government. I need I need the boffins on this, and and the doctor says, well, hey, I'm wealthy, I'm smart, I'm interested.
Tell me where the cave is. And the farmer says, oh no, no, no, no no, I can't tell you where the cave is, but I will sell you some of these stones.
Who That's where things get a little sussy though, right, because like, let's just come at this from the perspective that these are authentic, doesn't that make this extra illegal this type of yes, because.
I mean yes, the government I believe is.
Very hard on, you know, the theft of Peruvian artifacts, which is what this would be.
Considered one thousand percent and you would have motive here. It would exist if you were a detective looking at this. You know, in every light possible, you say, oh, this, this man knows that this particular person is pretty wealthy and willing to purchase something that you know he's already purchased. Would you say three hundred and something, which would be a pretty big windfall if you could sell three hundred or maybe even more.
Yeah, it's tasty. There's a new mommy to it, right, So yeah, he says, look, Doc, I can't tell you about the cave, but I can sell these to you because the archaeologist won't pay attention to me, and we can only assume. The doctor said, I feel you I could contact the archaeologist, and the farmer said, no, okay, okay, okay, one step at a time. Let me tell you some stones.
Doctor Cabrera ended up buying thousands of these. He had more than, according to some report, to have more than ten thousand, more than eleven thousand by the nineteen seventies and over the years, because these guys had a relationship
for more than a decade. Over the years, Basilio produced hundreds of these carved stones, and Cabrera, leveraging his social position, became their greatest promoter, and he would always reach out to scholars, to other aristocrats, fringe theory enthusiasts, and everybody that he was speaking to. He was less asking them for analysis and more proselytizing toward them and saying, these
stones are evidence that everything you know is wrong. Right up and down right his left, shortest long blah blah blah. That's a weird Al Yankovic reference. I don't think it'll land. We'll keep it. But he's also he's also calling to religious fundamentalist crouts, calling to creationists. And this gets us to the point where we see that there are more easily more than ten thousand stones as we record this evening. They've been identified as eco stones. The majority belonged to
the estate of Cabrera. He was the hugest promoter. He made his own museum. Imagine being that well off, you could make your own museum for a thing. Why don't we have a museum? Can we do a museum.
I could with the magic cards.
I could with synthesizers and action figures, but I kind of want to keep them, so maybe maybe maybe after I died, but then I'll be able to use them, you know what.
The museum could be hands on, Yeah.
Yeah, like Sidetracker for a big museum he created originally just contained stones he had purchased from those brothers that we mentioned earlier, along with stones from his father's collection. We said he was an aristocrat. His father, Bolivia Cabrera, was from Spain, and his father had also collected stones. Now this may be something that's familiar to various members of the crowd tonight, but like just a quick personal anecdote, I remember growing up on some family land that was
riddled with arrowheads. Did you guys ever do that, like go digging for arrowheads?
I did go digging.
I don't know that I ever found anything authentic, but it was also easiest to find chipped rocks and just say that's what they were, you know, as with your childlike imagination.
That was probably more me.
I bet you guys found some real deals though, trick myself into believing a lot of like flint like things were ever, tie it onto a stick and make yourself an improvised bow out of a more bendy stick with a nice piece of twine.
I can't say that I did that.
I did. Oh, is that unusual? I did, for sure.
I don't know. I found some you know, probably canines or some teeth from small animals that I totally believed were shark teeth back in the day as well.
Oh, I thought you were going to say you made them into you made arrows from them, arrows from teeth. That's the most subtle thing.
Yeah, that would be sick.
You can put the backwards part forward, you know, with all the little spiky parts.
Yeah.
But Cabrera wasn't He also kind of a bit of a hype man, like he really wanted to spread the word.
Of these things far and wide.
And this is where we see the folklore progression, or the evolution the telephone game of this theory, because he was talking to everybody about this, right, anyone who would hear him out in academia, outside of academia. He wanted their not even their opinion, certainly not their criticism. He wanted their coside. And as the word transmitted throughout the
globe in different circles. It came to the attention of a guy named Eric Vaughan Danakan, Eric von Danakan, Yeah, publishes a paperback that I loved when I came out, The Chariots of the Gods question Mark A little bit of hedging there. He publishes this first in nineteen sixty nine.
It becomes an international bestseller, and a deluge of similar books hit the market right after, you know, like when an Action Blockbuster comes out, then they're inevitably a bunch of direct to It used to be direct to vhs, but now it's like direct to streaming sort of one offs. What's the name of that the b studios.
Well, they called the mockbusters was that term that was used, but it was one called like the asylum, I think, like so instead of transformers, it was transmorphers. And they were literally banking on people I think, getting confused at the video store and probably made some made some bucks off of that.
Similar in the mass market paperback game. At this point, all of the The key thing here is that all of these books name checked the mysterious Eca Stones, and then later religious uh religious types took up the cause of the Eca Stones because they were creationists, and uh, not to not to call any of us out, but anybody raised in a very religious Christian religious environment knows that there's, uh, there's a lot of controversy around the age of the Earth.
Right, Well, there's certain perspectives in that kind of school of thought. I guess they would even argue that dinosaurs aren't real.
Right, Oh yeah, I've heard that argument.
Is that real, like people saying dinosaurs aren't a thing?
Absolutely, it's the speculation goes that it's a big trick by the Smithsonian and other government organizations that are based in Satan, and it's trying to trick human beings to believe the Earth is much older and all this stuff, when in fact, firmament and flat earth and all that all just kind of want.
To simply pointing out an extremity of this position, right, and then it's definitely what you might call fringe. A lot of this is but there are certainly people out there that do put forth that that might well be a possibility.
Interesting contradiction because a lot of the creationists who championed the idea of the ego stones championed it because it showed that it appeared to show dinosaurs and humans living together, which vibed with their idea that humans and dinosaurs both existed in a world that was like six thousand to five thousand years old.
Max, Oh, if I'm not mistaken.
Though, in certain kind of religious, more religious parts of the country where there was controversy around depicting, you know, evolution in textbooks, I believe there were some more creationist leaning versions of textbooks that did express that very same sentiment.
Ben, And this is a long time ago.
I don't think this is maybe as much of a thing anymore, but I do remember when that was a real controversy. There were teachers in certain schools in certain parts of the world that might.
Have taught such things.
Yeah. I had a T shirt for a long time, guys, you might remember it. It was a great T shirt and had a picture of Jesus writing on a raptor, and it was kind of poking fun at some of that stuff.
You know.
I'm a little embarrassed by it now, but it was one of my favorite shirts.
Wait do you not have that shirt before?
I think that would be a thrift store find right there. Let me tell you, people would pay good money for that, Oh.
Man, I agree with Noel on this one. We also know that riding the wave of this attention, the Good Doctor wrote his own book where he set forth the majority of the claims that have become sort of the manifesto for people who believe in the Eca Stones. And this is the hidden history. We got to talk about it, right, We've made this a two part episode. Let's get into it. What does he say in his book The Message of the Engraved Stones of Eca.
Let's say these one at a time. The first one is that the stones themselves are way older than you think. Well, I promise they're way older than you're imagining the thing I'm about to say at least.
Oh, let's prices write it.
One dollar million dollars.
Okay, twelve thousand years, one million years.
Way way more four hundred and five million years old at least according to the book Wow, based on what exactly.
Vie It does say.
Equally does go on to claim that through the transplantation of cognitive codes to highly intelligent primates, the men from outer space created new men on Earth. So these are like gods. These are like like kind of godlike entities. It's almost like the uh the Engineers and Prometheus in the in the in the Alien World universe.
The important thing to know there is that, according to the book, humans did not start here on planet Earth.
Which technically could be seen as supporting the idea of pan spermia, which is really concept with a terrible name.
Again, every time that word comes up, I think about Dan Harmon being like that, what did you say?
He roasted us on that one. Yeah? Dad, if you're listening, shout out man. Yeah. The stones also, according to doctor Cabrera, they depict dinosaurs and these proto humans he calls the
stones that he likes. The doctor calls them glypto liths, and he says the show that these hypothetical ancient people interacted with these reptiles, and they had larger brains than those of modern man, these alien humans, and that they used a form of quote, concentrated psychic energy ends quote, with which they were able to influence celestial events, and they would record those massive, those massive instances of esp on the stones. So of course they would so like,
you know how, I want to be careful. I would say this. We all have at some point met a person who is low key convinced they can control the weather. Yeah, I'm not kidding. There there are people who and we're not saying they're jerks or assholes or anything like that, you know, but they're saying, Oh, I can make it rain, or oh I can stop the rain.
I've had my moments when there's some gusting winds in the back where I put my hand out right as the wind starts back up and I go, oh, oh crap.
And to explain the science with that, because there is science to that, it's it's a matter of psychological interpretation of the physical signals, like your body will tell you when it's about to rain, or when sometimes when the rain's going to stop. Things like that. You know, if you want to impress us if you can control the weather, then show us video of you make enlightening.
Yes, please, let's pause right here for a word from our sponsor and get back with more on the eco stones and we're back really quickly, jump back in here. The concept that some incredibly psychically powerful civilization, right manlike creatures could have all of this technology or all of this understanding, could be disadvanced and would choose stones as the medium to record what they do into to a
historical record into stones. It may sound silly when it first when you first hear it, but it always makes me remember our discussions we've had about what actually sticks around after nature takes over.
Something.
Yeah, is stones, stone work, stone carvings specifically, even this kind of carving, paintings.
Even, I mean, we have so much information from the historical record, not only just in terms of like sedimentary record, but like actual artifacts that were created by stone because they're just damn resilient. Then, as we pointed out, these particular types of stones, these volcanic stones, are particularly resilient, which is kind of a feature and a bug in this scenario, at least in terms of the provenance of these things.
Right. Yeah.
Check out the research that US scientists and sci fi writers did a few decades back when they were trying to figure out how to warn future civilizations about the dangers of radiation. They ultimately end up going back to stone glyphs. Yep, because that'll stick around. So there is there is a lot of plausibility to that or possibility. But are but.
The way ben Yeah, stone glyphs and pictograms, right, like pictures not words.
Not words like ikea instructions wow man, Okay, sorry, Ike, it reminds me of this thing, like, if this is real, maybe.
That is how somebody would try and get a message across millions of years.
Mm hmm, yeah right, it's It's one of the most effective ways. So if you ever want a lasting monument, make it in stone, honestly, and just hope the tectonic plates play ball.
They don't collide too hard, right.
Right, And speaking of when worlds collide, our buddy doctor Cabrera runs into science fiction, right. He does a lot for future sci fi writers when he says, furthermore, I believe that some of the machines depicted in these in these motifs, they look like spacecraft, which to me means they traveled through space without consuming fuel. And the Nosca lines are definitely, foresure remnants of an ancient spaceport. I am taking no questions at this time.
Become a good dayson I said, yeah, I mean, look, okay.
Also, before, lest we sound like we're dunking on this guy unnecessarily, it is true that the earliest Peruvian artifacts do date back to around twenty thousand years ago. These are true things. They do not make any claims about living around dinosaurs. They don't make any claims about traveling through space or any great celestial psychic power esp revelations. We know that engraved stones have been around in the region and discovered way before the Ecostones gained prominence in
nineteen sixty six. There were Jesuit missionaries who traveled through Peru during the Spanish conquest, and they even sent some of these stones, like engraved stones from previous civilizations back to Spain. Some of these stones are legitimate, but there are problems. I think we can talk about that, right
if there's an actual All right, here's the thing. Technology leaves more than a single imprint future, Like in this kind of time window, you know, two thousand years from now, the idea of a fossil fuel powered civilization is not going to be based on the discovery of a single cache of stones in a cave. There are going to be other pieces of residue, a sort of sociological ectoplasm, if you will, right, vestiges of these things. Well, thank you,
thank you. Yeah. The Inca didn't have a written record, but they had a rich oral tradition. So you're telling us that not one single story from this super dense catalog of folklore. Not one of those stories mentioned a telescope or a beat me here a machine that could fly.
Oh man, that is such a good point.
Just never mention it. It's just the one one stone. I mean, dinosaurs also died out, as far as we know, for the most part, way before primates hit the scene.
At least that we're we're aware of. That's what science says right now, yeah.
Quote unquote science. I mean, also, you know, if we're tracing the modern story. The BBC produced a documentary on the Eco Stones, and they had some scathing conclusions. It goes back, I think to your earlier point, Noel. The Peruvian government felt a lot of Western pressure and they felt like they had to respond to this.
That's right.
They did have a mandate to, you know, kind of oversee the historical relics, the antiquities of the country, and so the government felt that pressure to kind of have a show of force here. So they arrested the farmer for selling these stones under the pretemps these were in fact legitimate artifacts, at which point the farmer does about face and quickly changes his story. Whether or not you believe this is just a self serving act of a desperate person that's been backed into a corner.
Or if this is the real story in LA, you be the judge.
There were farmer re candidates story claiming in fact that he had carved all ten thousand of the stones himself. Get a step further, guys. He demonstrated his technique. Remember we were talking about how do you penetrate the you know, the very durable seven out of ten mose scale surface
of these volcanic rocks. We're gonna need something a little more powerful than just like a hammer and chisel, and he showed that he had been doing it with sort of like a drimal type tool or I guess maybe you could a dental drill, maybe, Ben, which was my teeth throw on.
I just thinking about it.
Makes your teeth sing. Yeah, apparently, he said. Just we were relating there, this is how I did it. Not only did I create these historical hoaxes like this shrouded to it, but I also used a dental drill. Let me show you the these methods. The government considered this
all a hoax. They shut it down and they said, all right, our geopolitical embarrassment is over and done with you know what I mean, Like, if you fart in a busy elevator and then you get to your floor, hey, just walk away, you know, you just hope you don't meet those six people again. Cynthia, I'm sorry, Well, can I.
Can I posit something here just as a again, maybe a minor devil's advocate.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, major devil's advocate.
I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of this farmer. And the government finally gets wind of what you're doing, and they're none too happy about it. They're saying, hey, uh, what you've been doing is illegal, and you are going under the jail for betraying your country basically, and all of the people's in the history you're you're going to jail. Would you maybe, put in that position be willing to say something like I hoaxed this whole thing to try and get out of that.
Well, that's yeah, that's what I was kind of saying. I wasn't being a total jerk. I mean, like, it does seem backed into a corner or perhaps because of the influence of others, that this person took the fall, you know, and uh and acted as sort of a knowing Patsy.
Yeah, I like that. I like this. I think this is a fitting wave for us to begin wrapping this up, because even now a ton of people believe that Eco stones are legitimate and that there is a cover up of some sort of foot because the person with the lowest socioeconomic status, Let's be honest, Basilio I was forced to announce that he had faked the stones to avoid imprisonment, and they were going to lock this guy up for years. Uh.
Peruvian law explicitly prohibits the sale of archaeological discoveries. So what if under that pressure, perhaps pressure against his family as well, he took the fall right and said, hey, I'm faking it. Nothing to see here, you know. Just let me be a free man, Let my family be safe.
Uh.
And I've learned not to interact with the one percent or whatever. He later has an interview with a journalist wherein he says, I did not forge any of this. I had to claim they were a hoax so I could avoid jail time because you know, I'm not a wealthy man.
I have to keep my job because of the iron fisted approach to pursuing folks dealing in these types of stolen antiquities right.
Right, and then we see other ripples in the pond. Here there are other folks like a archaeologist Alejandro Pezi Eserito, They who argue that they have found other stones that are similar, that also have engraved patina, that if not, if they don't purport to show the same things, they show similar things.
I think it's really important that we'd tina. I think is very interesting because if you look at like a raw one of these types of volcanic stones, they're real rough, you know, the outside, and they aren't like this kind of smooth obsidian quality. And if you look at images of these stones they have that. That's why I brought up a massage stone thing. That's what those look like. They have this sort of patina that that has to be carved into.
Well, what do you think, who's full of crap? Here?
Well, some of the stones, this is the thing. Part of this is true. Some of these stones are legitimate. That's fantastic news. The slightly less fantastic news is that the legit stones, which are weathered for sure, and are ancient and are engraved by human hands, they're all what we will call the tamer stones. They don't have fanciful depictions dinosaurs and humans high five and none of the
sci fi stuff. It looks like historical hoaxes got mixed in with the general article as part of the booming illegal trade in ancient artifacts. That's a distressingly common phenomena throughout the world and throughout history, like how many pieces of the True Cross were sold in the Middle Ages. You know what I mean?
I do, yeah, And it makes sense, as we said at the very top of this, if you find there is a side hustle and all you need is a drill in some smooth stones and you can make bank. M Maybe you take that.
We got into the wrong business, you know what I mean?
Like I think we should be all the time.
Faking historical stuff right.
Now, gosh, in my dreams.
Here's here's the real bullet that hit Kennedy. Too dark. All right, we'll do something, We'll do something different. So this is mostly a hoax unless we choose to believe doctor Cabrera and Usja, both of whom ultimately maintained that there is something the Peruvian government and perhaps the world doesn't want you to know. Unfortunately, we cannot ask the doctor about his beliefs directly as he passed away in two thousand and one. However, if you want to learn more,
he has a museum. His estate has museum, the Museo Scientifico Avier Caberettra, which you can visit.
I do think it's really interesting, man, when you google this stuff and look for, like, you know, Ikostone's dating and all of this kind of thing, the majority of the bulk of like articles that come up are megacreationist websites.
They are really behind this thing, man, at first.
And I was looking at it first, say, and again, I'm not here to diss anybody's religion or whatever. That's not the point here. But I just think it's very interesting that obviously has a a there is an agenda here in terms of like helping to bolster someone's set of beliefs. And I was reading this article on creation dot com before I realized it was on creation dot com, and it seemed very like scientifically measured talking about different methods.
Of dating and stuff.
And I'm not saying the stuff in here isn't necessarily accurate, but it is very much on this site that says humans and dinosaurs existed together. And that's what they're trying to prove through various means.
It's interesting.
I just want to see the dino movies that were created before mankind came around, Like, what kind of cinema are they making?
You know, I love it.
I want to see the conspiracy about a meteor landing. You know, it's crazy staggo man a media from space.
Oh, it's like that movie twenty twelve. But just yeah, yeah, a couple million years, hundreds of millions of years before, folks.
We can't wait to hear your I love that pitch, Matt. We can't wait to hear your pitch for a dinosaur version of a movie? Right, pre human? Right? What would what what would Devil's Advocate be about if it were by dinosaurs for dinosaurs so B D f D And what would what would your favorite tropes be? What would what would your interpretation of a classic dynos cinema be? Uh? Equally as important.
What kind of dinosaur would al Pacino be? Just that's just a straight up question.
As specific as possible, Yes, as specific as possible. Bonus points if you base it on science. Christopher Walken as well, obviously.
Hawkins a t rex because of the hands.
Do you think so?
I think I don't know why. I'm sorry it doesn't have weird hands, but it just hit me, just hit me that way.
Also, we understand that some human actors can't really be put in a box like that. Shout out till the Swinton Gary Oldman in particular. They're just they're chameleons already. We also want to know, perhaps equally or more importantly, what other pieces of anachronistic technology should we explore in the future. Let us know. We try to be easy to find online. That's right.
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