From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Andrew TryForce Howard. Most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Featuring Triforce's cat astrid. We love mysteries. We hope you dig mysteries as well. Tonight's episode takes us across the Pacific to Southeastern Asia, specifically to a place most people do not visit, Laos.
It's a bit of a history mystery. Euh mm hm oh Yescoby and the gang would be on board.
Oh, and it's an exciting one because there's so much stuff to ponder within this topic, and there's a lot of history for us to discuss as well, just as Ben is alluding to, just with the history of the country and especially with United States involvement.
Yes, just so, the recent history of Laos is intensely troubled, and we'll get into that as well, most Americans in the crowd tonight. If you think a Laos, you're probably thinking of it through the lens of the Vietnam War. And you're probably thinking of Laos and the Vietnam War because, as Matt mentioned, during the Vietnam War and during the Cold War, the United States planted thousands of fatal land mines that remain a danger to anybody in the area in the modern day.
So they didn't just go back and remove them all as a courtesy. No, no, man, that's bad form for us.
True story. A couple of offins figured out how to train rats to hunt the land mines.
Yeah, yeah, But I mean there's also the ordinance that just fell from the sky right when when planes were flying over Laus. I mean, but we're talking about and it's hard to understand the amount of unexploded ordinance that is just existing.
There, millions of tons, not all of it purposely dropped there on a sort of loose change out of the pocket scenarios. But the problem with that is for someone walking around, it doesn't matter whether or not the bomb was put there on purpose, it will still explode.
Yes, because most of it is that term unexploded ordinance right where it's it's just they are waiting.
And despite this lens, we do have to acknowledge there's a lot more to this country to what is called Laos today. It's ancient, hidden history. And tonight, folks, we are hoping you will join us on an ongoing endeavor. Maybe you can help us figure out a question that has baffled investigators for centuries, if not millennia. Why are there so many giant stone jars?
It's a good question when we will likely answer after a quick word from our sponsor. That was our cold open.
Here are the facts, all right, what do we know about Laos? If you're being fancy or you work at the UN the technical name for the country is the Lao People's Democratic Republic or Loo PDR. And it's a fascinating place. It's in Southeast Asia. It is the only country in Southeast Asia that does not have a coastline. Yeah.
Wow, I never thought about it like that. I always imagined a piece of it. I guess that is Vietnam where it wraps around the western side of it.
Yeah, borders shared with Cambodia, China, Mian Mars Slash, Burma, Thailand and Vietnam. It's fascinating and tragic that a lot of the history of this region is unfamiliar to the Western world. To be completely honest, I had no idea. I don't think any of us had any idea how far back human habitation stretches in this specific region.
Right. We know, for example, that the oldest skull in all of Southeast Asia was discovered in northern Laos. The Tampya Ling Cave holds human remains, the date back at least forty six thousand years.
Yeah, nuts, pretty impressive. Also, it's the perfect passing ground between multiple civilizations. It kind of reminded us of the role that Eurasia played with the old Silk Road. Right, you're between these great empires, you become a transit point, you know. And Laos was in what we call Laos today,
was in that situation. Civilizations from India and China, other nearby regions, they all pass through at one point or another in very ancient history, even before these civilizations would be called China or India, they made contact and they contributed at times violently to the modern day Laos.
Oh.
Yeah, man. And there are all kinds of just incredible artifacts that you can find there are well, you guys tell me. In my research online, I found that it's pretty difficult to get some of the websites for the museums, like the more local museums that exist in places in Laos. It's hard to get those websites working really well for me and to see the actual imagery and the actual artifacts that are in museums and places there. But you can, you can find a couple and some especially around the
stuff that we're going to be talking about today. But there are things that go back to this era that goes back millions of years up until eleven thousand years ago, which we're just we just mentioned oldest skull. It was like forty what forty six thousand years ago.
And it's such a diverse regions here because I think a lot of people, myself included, might not have realized that it's like its own kind of crossroads of civilization, especially being such a tiny geographical, you know area.
Yeah, But but the whole point is the we've talked about this before. The stuff that sticks are that humans create. What's the thing that sticks around the best stones stones?
Yeah, we're talking about the police to scene aka street name ice ages.
Yeah, the mammoth times.
They were mammoth times indeed, and people will argue there were giants in those days.
Oo ooh, which is really cool when you think about the at least the story surrounding today's.
And the roots of modern day laus come about. In I would say thirteen fifty three CE or so, a warlord named Fa Gum declared himself the king of Lanzhong million elephants. That loosely translates to also side note, we are clearly not native speakers. We are going to tangle with some words that were will do our best to pronounce, and if we're ever in a tough spot, we'll spell it out for you so you can search on your own for sure.
With Ben, you helpefully pointed out off air that I believe the X sound is sort of a Shia kind.
Of yeah song song.
Yeah, it's good to know.
It depends on this our level best, Yeah right, It depends on your your translations, your linguistic mileage may vary. The Kingdom was initially a vassal state of a civilization in nearby Cambodia. It split into three different parts in sixteen ninety four. It was overtaken by the Thai or Siamese civilization gradually, piece by piece, such that it became a vassal state of the Siamese civilization in eighteen eighty five, which is crazy because it's recent, right more or less?
Right, Well, yeah, it goes, it gets even crazier and laws where they can getting invaded. I think it's one of the major problems of existing in that cool spot where you get influenced by all these you know, big empires. But those big empires often have plans ideas about expanding territory and you just happen to be right up against.
Them, right, it's that crossroads elements.
Yeah. Maybe another way to say it is you can meet a lot of people at an interstate gas station, but also you can meet a lot of people at an interstate gas.
Station sushi glory hole. Sorry, have you guys heard that song yet?
Yes? Okay, heard or experience?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, it's not what you're thinking.
Guys, Wait, where are you going? Hear us out.
Hear us out, hear us out. So if you look at modern lout like to your earlier point there, no, you'll see it is a fairly new thing. As we record this evening. Experts are still working to learn more about the story of this region. It is often described as being forgotten. It is one of the least explored countries in this part of the world, if not on the planet overall.
And that's not in any what we're going to get to, but in any small park because of some of this stuff we're talking about today, like all of these things left behind by the US that are not particularly conducive to exploration, you know, lest you get blown up.
Oh yeah, that unexploded ordinance has had a major effect on so many aspects of the country, whether it's from economic expansion to being able to dig in the ground for you know, at these amazing sites because you've got to get them cleared first.
Probably a little bit of an issue with tourism, you know, I mean.
Which is the fastest growing legal industry in the country. Of course, a couple of caveats there for the astute listener, and then check out our future episode on the troubled border of Mianmar. But with this we know that the modern Laos is a somewhat recent thing. The actual name, the term for these three different kingdoms was coined by
French colonial forces. They in United Lao Kingdoms in the region under the rule of French Indo China back in eighteen ninety three, so again pretty recent in the grand scheme of things, primarily due to the consistent interference of foreign powers. Laos is a country with a lot of problems. We actually, you know, we talk about this sometimes on air, but we actually may not be able to go to Laos after this episode. They're a little bit touchy. The
ruling Communist government is constantly accused of corruption. Poverty is rife, crime is as widespread as the bombs, which are relics of you know what is sometimes called the Secret War, which took place around Viadam.
Yeah, oh my gosh, the nineteen sixty three, sixty four to seventy three, those are the years when those bombs were dropped, and it was the Secret War. This is mentioned and almost hinted at in a lot of the popular i would say, graphic novels and some of the movies and TV shows that we like a lot, but just this concept of what the United States was saying, like there you can hear quotes of then President Kennedy saying,
you know where in allows for peaceful reasons. It's all peace baby, he said it, just.
Like that Barian.
Yeah. Yeah. And then just for the result to be you know, minds and cluster bombs.
Yeah, the result is that allows today this evening is in fact the most bombed country in modern history, per cap But if you are fortunate enough to visit, just remember this. First off, never talk politics in a foreign country. Not to be like the fun police, but be very careful here. And then secondly, if you see a sign that says don't walk on the grass, you should can believe it.
Chicky want to you can't want to tread lightly, Well, that's so maybe not tread at all, probably best in not tread at all.
If you want to learn more about that stuff, just we'll throw to an article real quick in the Guardian. You can read something that was written in April of twenty twenty three titled the fifty year Fight to clear US bombs from Laos. And it is just tragic to hear the stories of children, little little kids in school being taught specifics about types of ordnance so that they can recognize even the tip of a piece of something that's you know, stuck out of the dirt.
These yeah, these evil relics of American activity in the Vietnam War, when the US was bobbing Laos, when there were incursions in Cambodia as well. In Laos alone, hundreds of people die or get maimed every year. We're talking children, missing limbs. We're talking people people walking through a place that they have walked through for decades, making the wrong
step and becoming obliterated. If you want to read a slightly more positive spin on this, do check out a Smithsonian article by Danny Lewis from twenty fifteen, which is all about how giant rats have been taught to sniff out these land mines. That's at least a positive spin. I'm always looking for those.
Do they go in, Is that like their final mission when they find a cluster bomb? Or do they just alert? Sorry, I'm just imagining alert jumping on it.
Yeah they're not. They're not. Yeah, they're not suicide jockeys. Are They're also pretty to train?
Yeah?
That makes sense.
Yeah, checks out, especially if you're given the life span of a rat. Story for a different time, right.
But there are cool groups out there, like the Mind's Advisory Group that are specifically attempting to clear large areas, right, but I think it oh Man. In that article from the Guardian, they're saying it at the current pace, it would take one hundred years.
To clear it.
Yes, it's absolutely correct. Unfortunately, and the endeavor to clear the country of unexploded ordinance is dramatically underfunded because it simply does not exist in the zeitgeist for a lot of people who would donate to a charitable cause. Kind of similar to how only the fuzzy animals that are endangered get saved, you know what I mean.
It's true the cute ones.
Yeah, what about those pangolins, Man, come on.
Gross get rid of them.
I could see.
I'm just joking.
So if you are I like that note, I could see in a world without pangolins, they're on the way. Yeah, I want to save them too. If you are again fortunate enough to explore Laos firsthand, you're going to meet some of the coolest people around, some of the nicest people who have some of the most kick ass food ever. You were also going to encounter ancient mysteries that have baffled people for millennia. One of the most famous, the Plane of Jars. I can't believe we're finally getting to this.
This has been a hobby horse. I've never seen.
Them well me neither well outside of the Internet, of course. But it's I'm sure it doesn't do justice because it guys, I'm sorry, I'm going to make an elden Ring reference.
I just have to say, by all means, is it that the jars with arms and legs that run.
Around, Well, specifically, it's imagery from the expansion that exists where there are just fields that have these what the jars that exist in that game. It feels like somebody was aware of this topic, the plane of jars, and put it into the game and came up with lore
about it. And it just when I'm looking at imagery of the actual plane of jars that exists in the world today, I go right to that imagery and elden Ring because that's where I saw that very specific thing first, just fields of these amazing looking jars.
And that expansion is shadow of the rd Tree.
Yeah, I always think the Scdoo tree, which is a weird name.
For the Ohio tree. Yeah, we're not getting friends and neighbors. If you go out to the hung Quang plateau of northern Laos. You will see a relatively level area just inundated with these huge a carved stone jars. Just like, look at these things. Pull up your search browser of choice, visit your local library. Sure, the French discovered it during their colonial period, but everybody already knew these things were out there. And the questions we're hoping to answer are one,
who built these? To why were they built? And three why are they no longer being built today?
Do you guys remember the pretty popular Christian band Jars of Clay. H I don't know why it comes to mind. I'm sorry, didn't mean to. What was a song about? Like the Noah flood? Good fuck chans the flood. They're kind of like Christian Creed. Wait, Creed was Christian Creed? What am I talking about?
We'll find out after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy, all right.
First off, Jars of Clay was my favorite band growing up.
Okay, Jars of Clay was great. I was gonna say that I thought that. I thought that was a bop. It was one of those things called Yeah, it's one of those. The song about the flood is one of those bops where you don't need to speak English understand it. The song structure is just amazing.
Ny Tail spins the yarn, and.
We hope you can help us spin some yarn today. There's not one plane of jars. They're like ninety known instances of these things out there on the plateau, and there may well be more because this is one of the least explored countries in the area. Each site has between one to four hundred carved huge jars cauldrons. Actually, if you look at the pictures, they look a lot more like cauldrons.
Yeah, yeah, it does. It looks like something could have either been cooked in there or or you know, you think storage as well as soon as you look at them, which is really interesting. And I guess the other thing that is kind of baffling when you look at them, they are varying in their sizes. Right, Some of these none of them are tiny, right, because they're almost four feet The smallest one is about four.
Feet or three a meter, So yeah, exactly, So.
I mean that's not tiny. That's still a huge jar. What are you gonna put in that jar? But others go up to like nine almost ten feet mm hmm.
Yeah, they're between one to three meters that's about three point two eight to nine point eight feet. Shout out to Namibia and the US, the last two countries who refuse to do the metric system.
Yeah, because it's America.
You are rock.
From our cold, dead feet and hands.
Nobody wants to hunt big meter, you know what I mean? We hunt big foot. That's right, that's right. Yeah. I feel like I feel like we just all need to take a plug of a big leak chew. Do you guys remember that.
When so cool my bubblegum chaw?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, the candy cigarettes, oh man, idea.
But these jars amazing. And because there are varying sizes, I think you immediately go, well, why would they Why would there be such a difference between the large ones and the small ones? Were they all for the same thing?
Right? Yeah? Why the variation upon the theme? The bottom is always larger than the top. They are all cylindrical. They all basically do look like cauldrons. Some are not in great shape, obviously. Some of them have lids. Most have like a carved rim. You could imagine a lid being And it reminds me of our discussion on the
mystery of non module. These are megalithic structures. At some point in ancient history, a bunch of people who had a lot of other stuff to do put a ton of time and energy into building these curious structures.
Matt, you're spot on. I picture the jars from elden Ring instantly in my like that. It's just that they're the perfect size, perfect level of ornate kind of attention to detail carved into the outside. These probably didn't sprout arms and legs and kick your ass, but they in my mind, they look very similar.
There's definitely some inspiration from the these sites and there Ben, as you were saying, they're scattered like pretty much all over this area. There are three main sites though, right if you like, if you go on a map or something, you'll discover Site one, Site two, Site three, which are just larger collections of them. But one of the other things that was discovered is that these jars exist under the ground too, in a lot of places. So it's not just the ones you can see above ground, which
look incredible. There's also a bunch of stuff.
Buried, yes, yeah, buried, forgotten, unexplored. We kicked some stats already on the jars themselves, and their structures. But what we need to understand is this is one of the most important prehistoric sites in all of human history. Add to this evening, no one really knows what those human ancestors were doing when they built this stuff. We've got some good guesses, but no one has proven it. We
don't know what inspired people to make these things. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until twenty twenty one that a coalition of researchers from LAOS in Australia managed to date some of the jars. Not romantically like, they figured out how old the jars are, and they did this with a yes, bizarre technology that does not sound like it should be real. It sounds like a move in a video game. Optically stimulated luminescence.
Gotta tell you looked this up, guys, and I'm still super confused. What we could say is from a super layman. That's me standpoint. It is it is testing when the last time specific like minerals were exposed to sunlight, and it does it in a way that is super sciencey, And my brain hurts when I read some of the sentences. So I don't even know if I'm gonna try i'll
read I'll read it to you from geosciences. It's optically stimulated luminescence dating or optical dating, provides a measure of time since sediment grains, so specific grains we're talking about here were deposited and shielded from further light or exposure.
M This uh, this makes use of electrons that are trapped between different crystalline structures of certain.
Sure, sure, I just don't get it.
It's just about the grains.
You'll mess with the grains, yes, absolutely, with the brains.
I just I think it's just hard for me to understand how I love the humans are so smart, just figuring out how you actually measure that, right, Like, oh, these are these electrons. There's pockets where these electrons where stuff would be filled inside if it were exposed, but it's not. It was under this jar for this number of years roughly.
I that's that's one of those things where first off, yes, thank you to the humans, and then secondly, someone obviously lost their mind figuring this out.
You know what I mean, I've got eureka, I've gotten mad.
Yeah, someone's marriage got ruined over a valence band obsession. Dude. That's where it happened well, so thank you, Thank you boffins for doing this. This research is fascinating. You can you can read the statements from the folks who leveraged this to solve the mystery. That's people like doctor Louise Schwan from University of Melbourne. That's Associate Professor douggled O'Reilly from a and U Australia National University and doctor tonglith
Lone Colt from the Loud Apartment of Heritage. So they figured out how to do this. What they found when they applied this optically stimulated luminescence was that people had been building these jars across multiple generations and they were likely placed in their current positions from well forty to six sixty BCE. These things pre date Jesus Christ.
By a long shot. And and it is just gosh, it's baffling that we can even know that through that stuff. But what's the other dating technique that was written about in that same article. There's one in fizz Org about that it.
Was is there a reason that radiocarbon dating can't be used? Or is like this I've never heard of this method? I just thin guess I've always is.
That what zircon UPB dating is. They mentioned that as well as like a way to measure carbon.
They definitely used radiocarbon dating as well. I think, what's new about this and the other? Look, I can't pretend to understand a lot of me you could. I think this service to all of us. You know, zircon UPB dating is definitely a thing. It's also the trital what its right?
Yeah, involving detritus.
So so, guys, I looked at that one up to this is what it says. Whole grain analysis by thermal ionization mass spectrometer yields UPB ages with the greatest precision but potentially poorest accuracy.
What like like I didn't understand even where that sentence is supposed to be split up.
Also, greatest, greatest precision, poorest accuracy means it will give you the most specific result with the highest likelihood that that result is incorrect exactly.
But also it's because of the mixing of different age components and PB lost domains.
Ah, yes, let's talk about that.
Yeah, why didn't you say?
So?
That's a different color?
Where is jaw? We need your job?
Rules? Shall start this out you'll get it done, you know, I think the material science they are. One of the fascinating points to raise is that these jars are not uniform in their composition. You'll find limestone, sometimes sandstone, granite, a combination thereof Most are sandstone. But the fascinating scary ones, the ones at site one. Those are limestone. And what it seems to indicate is a valuable clue the sculptors were likely working with whatever material they can find nearby.
You can trace some of these stones to nearby quarries.
But they're not that nearby, right, which is a whole other thing.
Yeah, they're longer than you would imagine, similar to nan medal. But what I think it shows us is that people were working in service of an idea, a greater concept or cultural trend. So if you want to make these cauldrons or these jars for some reason, and you don't have the sandstone nearby, then you grab the granite or the limestone.
You don't have the sandstones.
Do you know how many?
That sounds good? I think we keep it.
Yeah, do you know how many were made out of quarts? Guys?
No?
Zero? At least according to according to plane Dash of dash Jars dot Org.
Yes. Yeah. Also the Crystal Skulls are a hoax, unfortunately.
But the vodka is a thing that exists, the vodka, Crystal Skull vodka. And it's likes company here, it's somebody famous as company.
Somebody it's Dan Ackroyd.
Sorry, it's Dan Akroyd's company. Is a big old ghosty guy. He's really into conspiracy stuff.
He's got a show too, or he had.
He did pretty good. He's an odd cat.
Yes, also Canadian. You like how I added that in italics at the.
End, not mutually exclusive, necessarily being Canadian and being an odd cat. But you know, there's a Venn diagram in there somewhere.
I think I I think I could listen to him talk like maybe all day, just some of them. His accent is just so.
The King of that played and Tommy Boy, he was like the Muffler King of.
I forgot he was in Tommy Yeah he was. Anyway, Congratulations Dan, is what we're saying on all your success, On all your success, big fans. We also have to mention that in these structures you can find human remains.
And that's the lead.
Yeah, that's yeah. They probably veried a few, But that's that's our other big clue. Right, So let's go to something we teased earlier, our our immediate questions, who built this? Why if one ask who built it, we have to look at the folklore, right, ask the people on the ground.
Yeah, let's and has it that a race of giants, you love, a giant story ben potentially inhabited the area, and we're ruled by a king by the name of Kun Chung who fought a very long and ultimately victorious battle against an enemy.
Yeah. Yeah, And why did he need all those jars? He's a big old giant. Why are they just all over the place.
What do you do after you have won a battle against a enemy? Well, in Chunk's case, you you make a lot of rice wide.
That's how you replenish your chi in the RPG version of this story, right, yeah, flask or whatever you gotta. You gotta re up that those hps get that lao high.
Yeah.
Maybe it's uh strategically placed supplies during the battles and stuff like reach around.
Yeah okay, yeah, okay, yeah.
This is all this is made up in my mind.
Sorry, this is headcannon for us. So maybe the maybe Further, the reason that all these jars are broken open and strewn around is because they kept drinking the rice wine and forgot to replace it at some point. Right, So maybe like like after a rager house party, you know, you walk into the back deck and there are just tons of empty miller like hands or something.
Or you go into the fridge and someone's left an empty carton of oat milk in there, and you just fly into a rage. You know who it was? It was the kid? The kid did it?
Okay? Oh no, I feel like you're coming from some first hand experience in that one. Nope, Okay, I'm.
Venting a little bit. So nobody likes to see that. Nobody wants to see an empty you know yo yoa bag hardboard thing. No, it's no good.
We you guys know, I drink a lot of strange beverages and juices and that they I know what you're talking about. Because let's say you get a jar of lemonade, right yeah, and there's the one swig left in the body. Nobody wants why did you do that?
Come on, dude, well, let's talk about other possible uses of this these jars because we can, I tell you where my mind went to please do and I saw it mentioned in a couple of places. What about ancient techniques, techniques for food storage and.
For fermentation exactly right.
I don't know why, and I know this is not correct, but I imagine the way to create kim chi if you're if you're doing it in some of the older ways and literally bearing it, burying it for fermentation purposes. I'm imagining using some kind of vessel like that, not for that specific food, but for something like that.
I mean, there's all kinds of other like East Asian cultures that will wrap things in, say like banana leaves and bury them in the ground. Like you know, there's all kinds of examples of what you're talking about, Matt.
Yeah.
Also, fermentation is something that humans would be figuring out around this time, and fermentation was a global technology because everybody had to figure out how to keep food edible.
Right yeah, and stuff to drink right right.
Which would go to the second idea or the third idea here, which would be storage of rain water for instance, or storage of something and that all jibes.
I propose an additional possibility for these jars about clay.
Yes, wait, are you of Clay.
Yes, No, that answer is world's apart, my friend.
Sorry, I never made a beast flood. That one kind of broke through Secondler Radio flood. I don't think I ever gotten around to the rest of our catalog.
Yeah, they have an album coming out with Dan Ackroyd and jaw Rule.
I can't wait.
What Ario It's called Jaws of Clay.
That's too good, Ben, It's terrible.
Up a little bit.
It was so good.
Throughout, joy in my mouth and my heart.
I could handle it.
If only we had our own set of gigantic stone jars.
It's not too late, man, let's let's let's together.
That's the spirit, and we have to remember that folklore always carries with it some version of the truth. We saw this in earlier giant stories like the c Tech check out our episode on that spoiler. We figured out what was going on. Maybe here we take a break for a word from our sponsors, and then when we return, we ask why build this? Like why why? We We seriously still don't really know why people why people were
building this giant or human? And you're right, no, well, I love a giant story, but we do know there was a little bit of research up until like the early nineteen hundreds.
Yeah right, and that's mostly by French academics, primarily one in particular, a geologist named Madeline Kolanie, who excavated a cave at one of the first French discovered discovered sites. I guess, I mean, yeah, it's about claiming things, you know, named as you put it, Ben in a burst of creativity,
site number one, like the Blur song. You know, it's like a song number one, the Woo who one and Kilani explored another six or so sites that contained these jars, and for decades her work was kind of seen as the best Western not like the motel chain exploration of the sites and motivations behind building these structures. She kind of seems to be the authority for some time on what was going on with these these structures.
And just to be clear here, Kolani in her exploration of Site one in particular, she discovered the human bones, the teeth, the remains that humans were at one point in at least some of these jars.
As well as pottery sharks.
Yeah, pottery, So like why do in my head these are almost pottery themselves, But they're not. They are stone, they're carved stone structures. If we know that at least some of these jars contained human remains, don't we feel like that skews like the even the way people would think about them, potentially, because you don't accidentally have human remains in fermenting jars or in rain dark Okay, no,
you're right, so, okay, okay. I feel like in my if I was out there doing that, it would push pretty hard towards Oh, these are funerary rights or this is like some kind of burial.
Ritual, right right, Yeah, and kidding aside, Yes, people end up dying in all sorts of strange places and nooks and crannies throughout history and throughout the globe. But this feels purposeful, right, This feels as though it was built to store something. As we're saying, nol Kolani finds these strong indicators and is on the right path, right, the
path toward discovery. Except the research got shut down and then banned to the point where if you were a professor or a boffin, a fellow nerd eggheader tourists trying to check out these sites, you could meet the wrong end of a sword, for sure, very nasty stuff. Oh yeah, research was banned until nineteen ninety four, which is why there are so many theories. You know, in the absence of transparency, speculation only thrives. Maybe we start with the
craziest theory, what if there were giants? There's actually a little bit of sandstone to this, as Noel would say.
Yes, the idea that giant humanoids existed for some period in that region and potentially learned how to quarry and carve stone, and then also for some reason didn't leave any material trace that they existed other than a bunch of carvings on a plateau.
Well, it's weird, guys. Do you get images of Skyrim at all? And the giants with the mammoths like walk after them.
They always smash me. But they're fun to you know, they are gentle. But sometimes you just want to f around and find.
Out with those you're going to turn into a stealth archer. That's what Skyrim does.
That's every time, every time. But I guess I just have I have images of that in my mind where you can imagine early versions of us, imagining the creatures like us that are walking around, you know, that are close to the size of a mammoth that would you know, raise mammoths and use mammoths for whatever purposes, including getting their milk like in Skyrim. But whatever you know, I mean you can just I think you can imagine that.
Yeah, for sure. It's also here's the sandstone part about it. Here's where the argument sounds less crazy. It's the old Bigfoot question. We're raising, right, these huge things that were somewhat like yet entirely distinct from humans. They existed, they proliferated, they vanished, They left nothing behind except for the fact
that they're super into jars. There is a There is a fascinating folkloric note because southeastern Asia was, during this era of time, home to the world's largest known primate. It has a very dumb and I would say somewhat offensive name. It's full name, but it's real name. Just call it Gigantipithecus. Yeah.
Wait, has more than.
That, Gigantipithecus Blackie.
Oh, like the Christopher Walk in King Louis and the live action Jungle Book.
Yes, just so.
He even writes it into the song.
Yes it is. That is a gigantipithecus, and well done. This thing only became extinct in the late Middle plastine. No one sure why it went extinct. Just like other megafauna of the day, it was a big, probably not super duper fast herbivore. But this guy's a real chonker, ten feet tall, weighed over twelve hundred pounds. Shout out
again to the US hashtag never the metric system. And so we know it's quite possible that human beings Homo sapiens in this part of the world ran into this big, not quite human thing out there in the forest, so they would have to have legends about it.
Yeah, I mean, really, it really is this. If you look at size comparisons of like theoretically what Gigantipithicus could look like. From what we do know, it does appear to be Bigfoot like between somewhere between Bigfoot and King Kong, right, I mean it's huge.
Yeah. Yeah. It's also that the way it's depicted in the live action Jungle Book, in the King Louis character, it looks a lot more like an orogaton.
Yeah, you know, and and the way it's depicted in that movie would have been quite significantly larger than the real thing as well.
Right, Oh yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, well, and it's yeah, it's it's depicted often in some of these what would you call these scientific illustrations where it's like, theoretically, this is what it looked like. For me, it looks like a cross between an orangutan and a gorilla, like the way it you know, would ambulate.
Yes, yes, it's got the big cheeks too on the front, I.
Mean, but it is not kaiju size.
No, no, no, definitely definitely a chonky chonky boy. But so we know that humans may have interacted with this mega fautum in this area at this time. It may have informed folklore. But from everything we know about Gigantipithecus, which is honestly not a lot, this primate did not have the gumption to use tools. There's no record of it doing those classic human moves, right, so we could say that they that the humans at some point encountered something,
maybe even Gigantipithecus. Honestly, if we know humans, which we do, the odds are that they are the reason that Gigantopithicus went extinct.
Yeah, and you likely wouldn't have much time for fossils to be created. It just depends on you if you theoretically did have an interaction between let's say a large group of Gigantopithecus that lived in that area. Then humans come in. Humans figure out how to basically kill all of them and eat them, and potentially eat them. There really wouldn't be anything left. Those bones would go away over that span of time.
Yeah, that's a scary point. I mean, check out the story of those poor hobbits in Indonesia. The other version of this also happened. Yeah, I think they ate the hobbits man.
Yeah, it sure seems like it.
That's Homo Florenzi's right.
Yeah, I never know how to pronounce it.
So anyway, Yes, hobbits are real. We're just gonna throw that one out for you. Check out our earlier episode. We mentioned this just a few minutes ago. Based on the admittedly scant investigations so far, the jars do appear to be some form of grave. They do appear to be funereal. They appear to be ritualistic cemeteries. And we know that the humans have always deified, worshiped, and feared the dead right because death is the one certitude other than being alive, that everybody has to go to it's
go through. It's quite universal. So maybe people in the area were just following the same rules as other cultures, making sophisticated monuments for their loved ones when those folks passed away.
Yeah, potentially, for sure. I found a Fox News article, guys, that was from twenty nineteen that was discussing the number of young persons, like remains of young persons that were found in these jars, and it was something like over over fifty percent of the humans that were found or the remains that were found in these jars were i think fifteen years old or younger, and a significant proportion of those were children that either died at birth or
during birth, or you know, before they were born, those kinds of things. Yeah, it almost seems like a way to remember at least young people, but maybe not all young people, right.
Yeah, And then also we have to realize our sample size is pretty small because it's based on just the remains that were found. So as a counterfactual, it's completely possible that someone that let's say these were graves, let's say there were grave robbers, and they just had at least enough of a moral compass, you know, not to disgrace the remains of children.
I didn't even think about that.
As possible that. I don't know if it's true.
Uh yeah, it's just to give you the actual quote here, guy, instead of off the top of my head. According to Fox News article, researchers found that over sixty percent of the population at Site one, that specific Site one that we mentioned earlier, was less than fifteen years of age, and almost half of those died at the fetal stage or in early infancy.
Okay, yeah, and there does seem to be some sand to that. We also know it's possible these were not permanent graves. It might be a case where a body was placed within a jar and was decomposed or laying in state before it was moved to a secondary location. Because our next question is inevitably going to be why do not all of the jars have human remains?
That's a great question.
Yeah, I think it's a question.
I mean, I had all different kinds of stuff in jars. You know, the jar is not just for one type of thing.
I love that, jock.
Yeah, did you guys see that there's this theory that potentially the jars were used for almost it's not the same thing. Some of the rights that have been around for a long time, where humans either attempt to preserve the squishy bits of a body after it's died, or to remove the squishy bits so that all you have is like bones.
Right right leading up to usually in a process leading up to a final phase of internment or incineration. Yeah, we know that. I'm glad you mentioned this because we know that in the royal tradition of Thailand's ruling family, historically your body is cremated, but only many months after your death, and your body will be moved from one urn to the next until the final day of incineration.
And the belief is that this reflects the gradual transition from the earthly world to the world of the spirits or the heavens. So so totally possible. Also, I love that point. Yeah. People keep all kinds of stuff in jars.
Yeah.
Yeah, God, I'm just gonna say, I've got my dog that passed recently in a thing like that, just because I want to have it around, you know. And I can imagine that if you've got loved ones that passed, you put them in one of those things until they're ready for whatever the rights are you.
Know, yeah, and maybe maybe waiting is part of the ritual. It's yeah, it's tough because we do have to remember these are real people, no matter how long ago, and they did die. It's possible too that this became a social flex, that this became an impressive thing to do well.
I mean, surely these are innate things were not just for everybody, right, I mean it would seem it's almost like tantamount to you know, the Pharaohs and having very very ornate sarcophagus sarcophaguy or whatever, and like you know, the Pyramids and all of that. It would it would certainly seem that if there were versions of these there were for like you know, the plubs or whatever, that
they would be significantly less ornate. I mean, you know, when my mother passed away, like to get anything beyond just like the most basic of urns is very expensive even today.
But there's so many of them, you I don't know, act so many places.
I don't know. I think it's yeah, I think it's more a function of this is the normalized way to commemorate the dead or to process that that passage. But there's also you know, I love that we're pointing out the common misconception about ancient Egypt. Not everybody got a pyramid. It was a very one percent thing for those guys, and it was dare I say, a pyramid scheme?
Wow? All right, a lot of work for one one individual.
Yes? Yeah.
Have we done a full episode about pyramids and like the theories of like energy usage and battery storage and all the stuff like that.
I don't know if that's only come up in other conversations, but i'd have to look.
Right, lay lines a couple.
Videos specifically with water and like us it. I don't I've been I've been going down some YouTube rabbit holes about pyramids and I want to talk about it with you guys at some point.
Or going energy.
Yes, I I I love it. I will also, without hesitation and without apology, reuse that pyramid scheme joke because I really like it.
Make it too.
So it is possible then that if this were a normalized social thing, people might begin planning for their demise right the same way, you know, the same way people build a taj mahal, or they plan a graveyard or grave plot before their time. This we know this would have happened generation after generation but we will probably not have the answers we hope we do. But this is why we need your help. This is a UNESCO World
Heritage Site. It is one of the most important in the area, and it got the ever loving Christ bombed out of it over and over again. Imagine if all the bombs in World War Two were just dropped on Stoneheinge.
That's insane, I mean, and that's accurate, Ben, because this this is a very small, geographically small part of the world.
Yeah, yeah, it's this is what we wanted to open with and to close with. The Plane of Jars fell victim to bombing. Even today, there are areas of the plane that are full stop unsafe, even for the rats, even for the rats that are trained to figure out the bombs, you know what I mean. Sometimes the rats just turn around and say, like, I'm not paid enough for this.
Yeah, oh yeah, I've no amount of cheddar is worth this, Chad, of course it's scheddar.
Yeah, well, I know, I don't know if I'm trying to get this out, guys, Sometimes the numbers get skewed in a way that makes you or makes me feel like, oh, that's not that big a deal. But you read something like there were sixty three accidents in twenty twenty one where there was unexploded ordinance that went off and maimed or.
Killed people, right, twenty twenty one, Yeah, which reported exactly.
So like immediately when you see that number, you're like, oh, that's not that many. Maybe that's not that big of a deal. Oh it's a huge freaking deal.
It definitely is, because, as we mentioned previously, from nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy three, as part of what is conventionally called the Cold War or the Secret War, the US military dropped more than two million tons worth of bombs over this country in secret, with the idea that doing so would prevent the spread of communist forces. Again,
very Cold War, very Domino theory of hegemony. The CIA stepped in to radicalize and train anti communist forces pulled from local tribes like Mong tribes, and the whole thing was,
let's disrupt supply chains to communist Vietnamese forces. Before you think we're getting too political, folks, please remember Dwight Eisenhower is the guy who greenlit this, the CIA activity and the whole shebang, And then the next several presidents, regardless of their political ideology, were fully on board with doing this. They just made it more extreme. Kennedy, Linda Johnson, Richard Nixon.
They may have had public performance differences in their speeches, but when they got to the closed door of the Oval Office, they all co signed on continuing these programs.
Yep, it's messed up. To look at a map too. If you go back and watch some documentaries about the Vietnam War, you can see Dnang, which is one of
the main places that troops were deployed from. You can if you just look at the map, you can see how they would send aerial attacks to the north towards northern Vietnam where they were going to drop those bombs, and they would just fly right over Laos, which is basically a strip next to the strip that is Vietnam, and then hang or right as they're going over where this plane is the plane of jars, and it's just where they were dropping bombs.
And it's horrifying, horrifying, and it's true. It's also it's a heartbreaking thing for humanity overall. Because of this activity, humanity has prevented itself from solving some ancient mysteries, from doing real research that tells humans where they come from. That's why most of the vast area containing the jars today is off limits to the public. You can visit like seven sites. I think Site one is probably the most fascinating because it has a specific and unique type
of jar, a limestone jar. At Site one, who knows how old it is. It has a bass relief carving of something that looks like a hybrid between a human being and a front why. Okay, no one knows. It's just one of those ancient things that we could have figured out if we could just stop bombing each other.
Yep, look up the Victory Cup and plane of jars. There's all kinds of amazing individual jars like that, and just the whole thing itself. It's been a fascinating episode, absolutely.
We hope. So we also hope you can solve it. Tell us what's going on if you happen to be on the ground, if you are an ancient giant or Eldrich Bean, who has a good explanation for why you would get in a situation where you have to build these gigantic stone cauldrons. We want to hear from you. We hope you find this investigation fascinating as well, maybe so much so that you give us a couple stars on your podcast rating program of choice.
How about five five?
If you're choosing stars, please choose five. We try to be easy to find one.
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