From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nola.
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Andrew Treforce Howard. Most importantly, you are you. You are here That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. If you are hearing our listener mail the evening it comes out, please allow us to be the first to welcome you to December nineteenth, twenty twenty four. Now full disclosure, we're recording this on December eleventh. However,
we have so many stories to get to. One of the best parts of our weekly listener mail endeavor is that we get to hear from the most important part of the show, which is you, specifically you. We're talking about Wes Outlier, We're talking about some folks from oz We're talking about a hopefully awesome therapist. Before we do any of this, guys, this is one of our last listener mail programs before the end of what humans call twenty twenty four so hoping we could just get a
quick vibe check. How are you guys feeling about twenty twenty four overall? How'd we do? That's fine. I think we did great. I think we did good.
I'm proud of the work we've done in twenty twenty four.
Are there?
You know, it's been ups and downs, you know, in terms of the state of affairs of the world, though, I would argue, you.
Know, guys, I mentioned to you to have a friend who has been experiencing some UAP stuff. Yes, list I got a call from him very recently, and you know, take this with however many grains of salt you wish.
To I'll say three, one for each of us.
Okay. I don't necessarily believe this. He doesn't necessarily believe this, but he feels as though he has been contacted in some way by some intelligence and the message that was relayed was one of essentially f around and find out with humanity because because allegedly a few craft have been shot down by government entities, and it's this whole thing, and it's making me a little nervous about twenty twenty five.
But I'm also super excited that we might actually get our independence stay moment, you.
Know, ah, yes, yes, not just July fourth for the US,
but a sort of July fourth for the world. Matt, this is it's so funny that you say this, and funny and not nahaha, but in a way because I have been receiving similar communications, not from the great abroad, but more from people identifying as humans you never really know online anymore, right, and whatever twenty twenty five may indeed bring, we are collectively so grateful that you have joined our strange, continuing mission to find all the stuff
they don't want you to know. As a matter of fact, we're the type of guys who like to walk the walk over talking the talk. And that's why we're pausing for a word from our sponsors, and then we're gonna hear directly from you.
And we are back, and let us begin with a message from an amazing person named oz Woman or going by oz Woman. We heard from oz Woman a while back when we talked about some of the strange frequencies emitting from I think it was a guy who had a PS four or something and maybe a strange thing, and she gave us some advice on that. And now she's calling in with some very personal stories about her life, some tales from what she's been through, what she's seen
and done. And I just was so happy. This is two voice messages kind of smashed together into a mix. Mix them up.
Oh and OZ Woman, it's great to hear from you again. I really appreciated the PlayStation comments too.
Oh yeah, for sure. Always something interesting to say and a very interesting person. So this is a mashup. There's several concepts ideas in here and stories. Let's just listen to the whole thing and then talk about what we want to.
Talk about right on.
This is oz Woman in Idaho. I joined Project Blackjack five and yes you can use this Blackjack five In nineteen eighty nine nineteen ninety six, we were doing an interstellar laser or a laser guided missile system that would bounce off of satellites very much the same way Iron Dome warks. And we were doing this for the United States of America as well as for outer space. It was a program that you guys know as star Wars. That's right. I was in Star Wars from nineteen eighty
nine to nineteen ninety six. And give you some weird context in twenty sixteen, I got a Christmas card from Trump thanking me for my service. Anyway. I worked for Maxwell Labs, and for SAIC and for you guessed at Lockheed stum Corks. So I'm just letting you guys know that as far as I know, there's nothing up there. Okay, but what do I know. I'm just a little peon and a big cob that still has their secret or
better clearance that could be called back. Just within the last couple of years, I went to my closest airbase and said, Hey, I'd like to get access to the base on this person data DA And they said, oh, yes, we still have you in our system. You still have a secret or better clearance and you can be on recall at any time to come back and to go to Los Alamos. And I was like, oh, Jay, thanks a lot, really appreciate So far, have not been recalled so far, nothing that I know of are sketchy on
the moon other than China. But yeah, and the fact that we did try and Blackjack five was on Fox News I don't know decades ago with a couple of missiles that were coming in toward a US Navy terrier and they had our system on board and were able to die fuse those missiles before they hit. Just wanted to keep you a little headset that. That's my story,
and I will tell you one more. When I was working at Balbo Labs in San Diego, I used to have to stay until three or four in the morning Pacific time to get out my report to the White House. Ronald Reagan liked reading my reports because I wrote them in plain English, not all this scientific bull craft, as you put it. I'll leave it that way. And so one week I came in after General came down, met me, you know, met all of us. I'm just a lowly
administrative assistant. And the next week I got a pound of cappuccino, jelly bellies and a pizza with everything on it from Pizza Hut, and a two liter bottle of Pepsi for me at the security gate because Reagan knew that I was the only one working and he wanted to give me a little oop to get my report in a little early so he didn't have to read it over breakfast. And there was just no way I could do that. But anyway, those are my stories. I hope you guys are having a good holiday, have a
good Thanksgiving. Yeah, I love your show. Been watching on YouTube. I'm a long time conspiracy realist and yeah, just love your show. Thanks guys.
By Yeah, whoa so many stories in there. Guys. First of all, look, I don't know if anybody else is stuck on this, but I am cappuccino jelly bellies.
So yeah, there's a bit of a I'm sure you know this, Matt. We talked about it in previous I almost have previous administrations in previous episodes and strange news and listener mail. Everybody likes to have a little signature soft move in politics. And the jelly bellies, the specific kinds of jelly bellies are thing that Reagan was known for.
Well, I just mean cappuccino jelly bellies. Bring me some where can I find it? I will buy that they're around.
Have you ever had the buttered popcorn jelly bellies? That's always been a favorite of mine. It literally tastes like the movie theater popcorn sludge in a jelly bean form.
Also for Reagan, the interest, or at least the way the public narrative went in the nineteen eighties was that Reagan got into jelly beans as a way to get himself off the tobacco dragon. So he stopped chasing that pipe dragon and started eating those jelly beans. I think a lot of it goes back to the Hermann gullitzcandy company.
Nice. I didn't know any of this. I just didn't know there were cappuccino jelly bellies and now I need some. But also pizza hut. Come on, send somebody a pizza hut. Back in the what in the eighties nine power mow Mo. Yeah, that was an amazing pizza pagnames.
That was back when they had the classy sit down restaurants with the red cups and the stained glass like old table type of.
Chandelier, that mafioso lighting, Personal Pan Personal Pan pizzas PPP's.
BOOKT also shout out to BOOKT.
Yeah, pizza party, PPPs at your pizza party.
But uh, guys, the most important there are really important things that are in there. First of all, just the personal The personal connection to Ronald Reagan is cool, no matter how you feel about any president, having this close connection to a president nido, especially as an ADMIN assistant and you're like writing reports and then the President's like, hey, I got a vested interest in what you're doing right now.
To cemb sing Yeah, for your work to be appreciated, that's massive.
Super cool. I didn't know much about Balboa Labs.
Guys.
I looked up a lot of these things also in their os Woman mentions SAIC, which is Science Applications International Corporation, a big deal, right along the likes of you know, Lockheed, Maxwell Labs, all these places that are doing different defense research, other stuff that's not so defensive, a little more offensive. It's all defense. It's all defense. Star Wars was defense, sure,
that is something we have to remember Project Blackjack. The fact that there was I guess a Fox News segment at some point talking about a specific time when missiles were headed towards a Navy carrier, but this system was used to diffuse them. Very cool. You may not really understand or have a work in context of what that means, as I did not before coming into this. But let's just briefly go over Star Wars, not the franchise that
was rebooted and will be rebooted again. We're talking about a very specific program that well, Ronald Reagan introduced it by giving a speech at one point that you can go and check out. It's really interesting. It's called quote addressed to the Nation on Defense and National Security. It was back in March of nineteen eighty three when that happened, so just before I was born, at least, and it was known as Star Wars.
People called it star Wars, sometimes derisively.
Yes, exactly, well, I would say often like at least at the beginning, they're like, oh, this Star Wars thing. But it was known as the SDI or Strategic Defense Initiative. It is linked to things like Missile Defense Shield that the Project for an American Century talked about and kept wanting, you know, the United States to invest billions and billions of dollars in. But it actually, you may in my head, at least back a while ago, I thought of it as a system of missiles somehow set up, you know,
around the country to defend us. But really what this was was countermeasures two strategic missiles like ICBMs that could be launched by an enemy, and then this system would make those missiles inert again, diffuse them, as was noted by our amazing collar there os woman, or to blow
them up, you know, while they're in the atmosphere. Flying around towards a target, and the concepts that were put forward for technology and advances to technology that could potentially make a missile inert were fascinating, amazing stuff that conceptually, at least, you're talking about lasers that can fire from
the ground, extremely high powered. Different types of lasers shoot from the ground, hit a satellite that strategically placed somewhere up there essentially a mirror that then direct that beam onto a missile that's flying super fast through the air, or you know, and vice versa. You could have a satellite that has the laser hits a mirror of the ground, then it gets targeted basically.
And os woman to your earlier point, I just want to take a moment and say your comparison to the Iron Dome program is ten ten, and thank you so much for that.
Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. So the Iron Dome program, you've likely seen a video or two or heard about it mostly used right now in Israel. That's where you've seen it deployed, where it's a system of essentially extremely rapid fire machine guns that are large caliber that can fire from the ground. You can hear them. It almost sounds like those warthog airplanes, the fighter planes.
But it does.
Ye man, that's what you hear, and again, fascinating and extremely effective when you've got a a bunch of those laid out well. I mean, it seems to be a fact at least maybe that's propaganda that I've fallen prey to, but from what I've seen, missile barrages will at least head towards Israel and then they will get obliterated in the sky.
But for the most part, also at that point, without getting too into the weeds, this is not an episode on Iron Dome, but we have to keep in mind that often Iron Dome is mitigating things like Hassan rockets Qassam, which are not the highly guided ICBMs we're talking about with the SDI Strategic Defense Initiative.
One hundred percent. If you're if you've ever played Call of Duty or something, you may imagine like an RPG rocket, like a rocket propelled grenade or something or something that's twice that size, right, that's kind of what we're describing here, lower tech missiles grenades that are you know, highly explosive and extremely dangerous, but are fired you know, usually from the ground, traveling across the air not that far, and you know they don't trave they don't travel that fast.
But if you're talking about an ICBM where some of these missiles that have like a nuclear payload, which is what star Wars and SDI was about, right, those are things that are rockets. I mean they're they're full on rockets that have nukes inside them.
They you know, they're like Jeff bezos. They go to space a little bit, yeah, just enough to do you like, how to walk down the street just to just to crap on Jeff a little bit.
You don't have to walk down the street for that, just the skim for a moment and then come yeah.
Yeah, but it's super dangerous, and it is to your point, Matt, it is a vital thing. To your point, os woman. The SDI, yeah, was called star Wars, right, and it was often called star Wars by its detractors. But it is, if nothing else, and vitibly ambitious and well intentioned idea.
Yes, I mean it's a very good idea. The point that President Reagan makes in that speech is actually kind of beautiful. I'll give you a little bit of a quote. I'll do this fast, guys, and then we'll move on to the next thing.
Can you do it in a voice?
I don't know that.
I can't even know if I know what Reagan sounded like.
It's hard to be a hard actor.
To me.
He sounds like somebody who's very adamant and connecting with his audience. Through the camera, you can see the actor and here you feel it and it feels good. So I wasn't even born yet, but I can imagine if this was the president talking to me, I would feel assured and comforted. And I don't know, Well, you are.
The American people, Matt, I mean, he's he's talking to you and all your cohorts.
Well, he's the gipper. Is win one for him?
He says things like this, and he said this in his speech. Let me share with you a vision of the future which offers hope. It is that we embark on a program to counter the awesome Soviet missile threat with measures that are defensive. What if free people could live secure in the knowledge that their security did not rest upon the threat of instant US retaliation to deter a Soviet attack, that we could intercept and destroy strategic ballistic missiles before they reached our own soil, or that
of our allies. I clearly recognize that defensive systems have limitations and raise certain problems and ambiguities. If paired with offensive systems, they can be viewed as fostering and aggressive policy,
and no one wants that. But with these considerations firmly in mind, I call upon the scientific community in our country, those who gave us nuclear weapons, to turn their dark yes to skunkworks, to turn their great talents now to the cause of mankind and world peace, to give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete.
Shout out to the speech writer, by the way, who was not the Gipper. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's not a dang on Brecon. Most presidents in the United States post about the nineteen seventies or so have not written their speeches. They've had some ideas, and then they've got a crew of pros who go in. But we have to interrogate the language here a little bit, because it's so cold war. Render the missiles impotent, you know? The impotent is definitely a linguistic weaponized choice.
Who's that aimed at?
Hey, Russia? Sorry your penis doesn't work? Is kind of what they're going for, this highly ambitious thing, which again was incredibly inevitably profitable for defense corporations, right, the quasi private public partnership that has powered the US military since
early in the World Wars. What we see here, though, is something kind of a political Regardless of whether you were a big fan of Reagan or a big opponent of Reagan, and what that coalition represented domestic lean abroad, we can say there is there is quite a lot of validity to the argument that we like. The implication there in the excerpt from that speech, and I remember this speech, mat is, the implication is we don't need to send the world's most dangerous military boots on the ground.
We know other countries, even allies, may have serious problems with US incursion. So what if we nip the problem in the bud in space in lower orbit and we are able to not have our military invade you to quote unquote protect you. We are able to protect you without any of those other problematic steps. And that is a noble idea.
It is, but it is pretty close to wanting to have godlike powers, right.
The same thing. I wouldn't even say close.
It's as close as humanity can current could get especially at that point, and it was something in the future that we could maybe achieve. And now there's stuff up there that we don't know about that's happening. Did you guys remember hearing a thing back in the late nineteen sixties when a lot I was there, well, when a lot of the UAP reports were coming out, there were
stories about UAP disabling warheads, specifically over bases. There were a bunch of talking about that, Rihanna, Yeah, there are a bunch of them.
These are stories the idea that they were benevolent in trying to disarm us, to keep us from blowing ourselves up.
Right, Yes, and I think this SDI program does just speaking of the nobility of it, Ben, that you're talking about there, I think there is this concept potentially out there that the real good, the good force, whatever it is, whatever you know, country is the good force, whatever people's whatever, extraterrestrials, the good force is the one that prevents some kind of nuclear, all out nuclear war on this planet, right,
which is really interesting to me. And we've even projected those thoughts out to outside force or potential possible possibly non existent outside forces. Again in my head. It's just connecting that concept of God to this stuff.
I am become death, destroyer of worlds and who could save us from that?
Right?
Yeah?
True?
And people don't people Whether whatever group of project genre the humans take, whether that be a religion, a state, a family, a tribe, a corporation, usually usually the ideas you want to be seen as the benevolent force on the earth. There are very throughout the span of human civilization, there are very few socioeconomic or socio spiritual groups that describe themselves without qualification as the bad guys. There are a couple, I'm gonna be honest, there are a couple,
for sure. I'm glad they're gone.
Well, I mean, it's like the Evil Empire that it was a name bestowed on the Soviet Union by others. They didn't come right out and put that in their press release.
Welly' all, there's so much a thing about there. If you've got thoughts, make sure you send them to us. We'll tell you how to contact us at the end of the episode. Thank you so much, Oz Woman in Idaho. Hope you're doing well and hope you get to work on something at Los Alamos. Someday and you get called back. I think that'd be awesome. What if you're part of the secret team that makes something just amazing that you have to tell us about in like twenty fifty least
right to us. All right, we'll be right back afterword from our sponsors.
And we have returned. And Matt, I'm gonna I'm gonna match you. May not raise you, but seeing your expert, insider opinion and perspective with one about psychology and in certain types of advanced therapy, and Matt, you actually brought this story that this listener mail pertains to on a recent Strange News episode about the practice of ed m R, which stands for imovement, desensitization and reprocessing, which is a I guess I would say relatively modern psychotherapy technique that
allows folks to revisit and reprocess traumatic memories. I think that came from Valerie, Isn't that right? Matt?
Oh, yes, e m d R. We had no idea what it was, and I think in the episode we like went to some website that was sounded officials like e MDR dot com.
That's right, and I've seen it printed as d m R. I think it's what I just said a minute ago. But the EMDR I believe is most accurate we heard from on the subject. A listener who is in the psychotherapy field goes by hopeful Sarah, so let's just jump right in. I think this is very interesting. I think it was me on that segment mat that maybe was struggling a little bit with how this type of therapy works,
and I may have drawn a few faults equivalencies. So I copped to that right here, and let's get schooled by hopeful Sarah. I'm a mental health therapist and I was just listening to your December fifth episode in which you talk about EMDR. I've been trained in EMDR, and I could tell you were having a hard time seeing how this works. EMDR uses bilateral stimulation, stimulating the body on one side and then the other to reprocess trauma.
The most common techniques are the eyes moving from right to left a number of times, tones in one ear and then the other a number of times, or taps on one hand then the other. The theory is that bilateral stimulation gets the part of the brain that processes, the part that makes sense of events and memories to start processing a client and therapist identify a target memory, usually something traumatic, and the client thinks of that while
the therapist starts the bilateral stimulation. Most often it's eye movement because it seems to work the best. As the client thinks of the traumatic event and the brain starts processing, it can actually reprocess the event slash memory and make different sense of it. Just like the body tries to heal itself when it's injured, the brain also strives towards healing. When it can reprocess past stuff, it tends to try to make sense of it in a more positive way.
For example, I've seen abuse victims work through really terrifying memories and get to the point that the memories are barely uncomfortable and they recognize what happened wasn't their fault. It doesn't mean they are unlovable, it doesn't mean they're defective, slash bad, etc. Sometimes I can almost see the light
bulb go on. It's pretty cool. It works well with PTSD because the brain is both trying to avoid thinking about the painful or terrifying trauma, but it also keeps going back to it in an attempt to understand what happened. I have worked with people who would take longer routes to work so they don't have to drive past a neighborhood that holds bad memories, but they also have regular
flashbacks of what happened there. EMDR exposes them to the memories enough that they deal with them instead of constantly avoiding them. That exposure makes them less reactive to the memory, and therapy itself helps them change the meaning of the original event. The goal is that memory doesn't feel threatening anymore, and if something triggers the memory, they don't feel much distress when it comes to mind. Hopefully that helps EMDR make a little more sense.
Yes, it does.
Feel free to use this in the podcast, as long as you correct any grammar mistakes or simplify any too complicated run on sentences. Absolutely not, you did great, happy researching all the cool stuff you research. Sarah the hopefully awesome therapist, Well, I would say definitely awesome therapist. This was such a helpful layman's way of breaking this down and understanding you know the value of this kind of therapy.
And also, guys, I couldn't help but think back to our recent discussions of the bicameral mind and the idea of processing things, you know, on the left side versus the right side, and how the two sides kind of interact with one another, and it seems like this technique really kind of takes advantage of that.
Yeah, I really wish I knew about this several years back, and I will just leave that there, guys, But yeah, just this sounds amazing, and you know, I.
Mean, the proof is obviously in the pudding for individuals who go through this therapy and you know, find it to benefit them. And it sounds like from Sarah's experience that she's you know, seen plenty of success stories. So I actually, I think what came up when I was trying to make sense of this during your segment, Matt, was that in a previous therapy situation for me, I
had a therapist suggest something along this line of work. Rather, it wasn't this exactly, but it was a form of reprocessing. And I guess, I don't know if you just want a very good therapist or what, But when I started going down that road, he almost was like, yeah, I don't think what happened to you was traumatic enough to qualify for this, So I guess gets good.
But also I.
Felt a little dismissed. So I do have a new therapist now, who I like a lot, and stuff like this. It's not like a magic bullet. You obviously have to have a practitioner that can help pull those ideas and those thoughts and those memories out of you and then help you to reprocess them.
You know, it's not just like a machine doing the work.
It is a technique that aids in having the real work of a great therapist kind of take hold.
Isn't it strange? Perplexing even that theoretically just touching your hand on one side of your body and then touching your other hand could actually cause your brain to function differently.
Isn't that weird? We've talked about mind hacks a lot over the course of gosh ten twelve years, some of your brain on what were the ones been, your brain on drugs, or your brain on love, your brain on hate, your brain on all kinds of different things, and right, just the weird stuff that happens as signals travel from one sector to another, and as memory is accessed while visuals are being accessed. Just weird.
Yeah, yeah, And I appreciate you bringing that up, Matt and Sarah, I want to thank you again for taking the time to share this with us and more importantly, with your fellow listeners. In full disclosure, we have heard from other folks in the therapy community, other professionals who
have their own takes on this type of therapy. In particular, I would argue that this shows us again the therapy is an ongoing collaborative science, and as I had previously said in our earlier segment, you have to find what works for you.
Yeah, it's definitely not a one size fits all thing, whether that be medication. I mean, we know that certain like antidepressants, they cause people to have even worse symptoms of their you know, anxiety or depression, and you have to kind of like try different ones and see what works for you, and hopefully, with the help of a good psychiatrist and a good therapist, you kind of land on a combination. But to your point, been the therapy itself and the methods, it really is all about that
interpersonal connection. Like I'm just really grateful and lucky that I've in the last six months found somebody that I just absolutely relate to who kind of fills a certain role of a type of figure in my life. That maybe I was missing, and it has made the work that we've been doing together like all the more kind of relevant and meaningful for me. I can't. I mean, I've done therapy for years and I haven't made the kinds of strides that I personally have feel like I've
been making with this person. So, you know, a huge shout out to anybody out there, Sarah, yourself included, who chooses to take this career path, because it takes a lot of kind of mental stamina to be able to just be kind of invested but also somewhat disconnected in a way from somebody's problems, Like you want to help them, you're there for them, but then you also don't want to take it home with you. I know I personally would really struggle with that, and I know a lot
of people who would also do that. So it really is a valuable service and we really do appreciate you. And with that, let's just make this one a little bit sure. I think so much of the information was just in Sarah's awesome email, And to Ben's point, anybody with any other perspectives on this or other types of therapy techniques, please do write us at a conspiracy at
iHeartRadio dot com. We're gonna take a quick pause here we're from our sponsor, and then come back with one last segment of messages from you.
And we have returned. Good evening, fellow conspiracy realist. They called me Ben from earlier. We are going to hear from a person we'll call Outlier with just a beautiful story that I think all of us will enjoy. Enjoys a specific word, and then we'll have a letter from home. Outlier writes with the following, Gentlemen, I'm a longtime listener, first time writer, and you can call me outlier if you read this on air. Haha, spoiler Outlier, we do sometimes.
The Void writes back. Listening to your strange news segment from December second about the poultry industry, you'll call that Matt reminded me of something I discovered over the weekend, pork skyscrapers. Now let's pause here, guys, have you ever heard of pork skyscraper?
I saw this email come through and I was riveted. I know it has to do with mega mega processing facilities for pork, and I believe Asia, but that's.
All I know.
I'm going to go ahead and say that's not a thing. I don't believe it.
But of course, of course the mind immediately goes to is it a skyscraper made of pork carcasses or something.
That's the visual that I get right, or is it a British insult you.
You polk skyscraper, or it could be a compliment for someone with very well in doubt.
Oh Outlier continues and says it was mentioned in paragraph fourteen of the article China quest for the Holy Grail of Meat. Outlier says, the article is about ways China is trying to produce enough protein for the diets of its population. While they are apparently exploring meat alternatives, they are also upping production of traditional sources, but in ways that are counter to everything developed countries are attempting to
achieve in terms of humane animal treatment. Pork skyscrapers, the article says, where pigs are housed, fed and slaughtered on an industry real scale. An outlier, you continue, you say so. After reading that, I googled and found an article on the Guardian from Friday, November twenty fifth, twenty twenty two. An excerpt is the following China's get this Guy's twenty six story pig skyscraper is ready to slaughter one million
pigs a year. With alleged photos of the site, Outlier, you say, I shouldn't be surprised that the workers are also mistreated. The article says the workers at this facility don't get to leave the building until their next break, reportedly once a week. Outlier, you point out, I don't even want to think what it smells like. I love your show, Thanks for putting it out there. I look forward to each new episode. My kid calls this the six finger podcast.
Thank you, Outlier. I mean, this sounds like the kind of stuff that Upton Sinclair wrote about in the Jungle, like back, you know what I mean. I don't know if the regulations over the just different that allow them to do this. I don't think we all should necessarily live under any kind of illusions that any sort of meat processing is quote unquote perfectly humane. But this just sounds like the next level escalation of that.
Yeah, and this is a true story. It's it's not one the livestock Jedi will tell you. As they say in Star Wars or in SDI, this is very much a real thing. There is not just one but there are multiple pork producing skyscrapers, pig farms, vertical pig farms. The one that I believe we're referring to here outlier is a twenty six story pig farm operating in the Hubei province of China. I don't know why I said that.
With a Maryland axit moving on for a while. The proponents of this back in let's say twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, they said, look, this is an environmentally friendlier approach to livestock production. However, as we can tell, there were a lot of people who said, what about the risk of zodotic disease? What about the quality of life for these porcine individuals? Or sign is just the fancy way of saying pig. This one when it was made in China, it was the largest of its kind
in the world. It wasn't a million pigs a year outlier. It turned out to be a one point two million pigs slaughtered per year, and it was entirely to address the nation of China's growing demand for pork. Pork is by far the most popular meat in the entire country, and let's remember that's also one of the most populous countries on the planet, and I wouldn't have thought that. I don't know why, but that's interesting to me for some of what would you have thought.
I don't know what I would have thought. I guess I just wouldn't have pork. I don't know why.
There's no real reason. Yeah, I mean it'd be weird of it was something else, if it was like their favorite meat is parrot.
I don't know, maybe beef, I guess, But now that I think about it, I mean pork as they're certainly it's it's an ingredient I think of being in plenty of you know, Chinese dishes.
So yeah, I can see that. We know the government has to be involved first off, because it's China and Uncle Ji doesn't like stuff happening without us, say so. The company behind the farm, which is the Joan Shing Cali Modern Farming, they were actually new to the livestock sector and new to poresign raising in particular. They previously were in the cement industry, and then they shifted when
the cement industry went bad, when it collapsed. I would argue part of that is because China finally got into trouble for building those he huge ghost cities to launder money, remember that for sure.
But like with this pork skyscraper and I guess facilities like it, these would have been custom built, right, not like a repurposed building that was used for other things.
Right, great question, great question. Yeah, these are custom built. Now to your point, they probably already had the infrastructure to at least get the concrete, right, they already had the toys for that. But we have to remember in twenty eighteen there was a swine fever outbreak in the nation, and this put a very hungry country into a very dangerous food security crisis. They want to have a domestic pork production at a not just a continually stable rate,
but at a continually growing rate. And I'd like to take a second and make space for you guys and ask.
Is this a good idea? Is this solving the right problem? Being a problem related to population, Yeah, to the.
Problem of food security or the problem of food safety.
Resources as well, just in general, because I mean, is China also experiencing a decline in population like Japan or is it not the case over there?
The specter of the one child policy of old is coming right. The consequences. The bill is coming due, but this is not a switch that gets flipped overnight. And to be totally honest, the more you dig into the story of these pigs skyscrapers, the more you see that it's not a perfect solution. Stuff sucks for the pigs. Just to be clear, pigs are about as intelligent as what you would say a three or four year old human being. Yeah, they're smart enough to know when their life sucks.
Yeah, I'm really sad that it is the protein that's getting the vertical farm treatment.
I really thin vegetables right.
Well, yeah, the grains and the vegetable and some of those things, because I again we talked about this pretty recently on the show, but that was the dream maybe that I bought into ten years ago or something.
Vertical farming, Yeah, just as.
A potential answer to these problems, because again, it just felt like, oh, well, we could build those humans are pretty great at building skyscrapers. We could make this happen. But the thought of cramming all of those pigs in like that and as you said, been giving them a terrible life. It does solve that problem at least somewhat of food insecurity especially if you made a dozen of them, twenty of them.
We know that there are a handful. But also do we if we are to assume the perspective of the PRC, if we were to exercise empathy, then we also have to ask, quite realistically, in the mission to solve one or two immediate problems, are we not potentially creating new problems?
Absolutely, It's like the cobra and the mongoose or whatever problem, right, And maybe it wasn't the mongoose, you know what I'm talking about, man, Yeah, but I do wonder why they went with protein to your point, Matt, and not like grain.
I mean, rice is.
Also incredibly popular over there and consumed and also takes checks off a lot of nutritional boxes. So why the pig? Why the pork? But yeah, I just wonder why not tofu?
You know?
And I'm not even doing this from the perspective of like an anti meat person. I mean, I eat plenty of meat, and it's something I certainly want to think about a little more intentionally. But to have it be pork and have it be these horrific conditions just seems unnecessary.
Well then, also, like another statement from some people living in China. Wow, that pig has a better life than me, right, Like, what about saving the people who are unhoused, et cetera, et cetera. These are dilemmas to wrestle with.
Well, and it it's kind of messed up, guys. It's not even really the pork processor company's fault that they have to make this pork, because the pork's the thing that's in the demand. The pork's the thing that's going to make them profit. The pork is the thing that everybody wants.
Right.
If tofu was in demand in the same way that pork was, then it would be a Tofu skyscraper.
Sure, right, Right. We also have to remember, and I appreciate that point, We also have to remember that there has been an acceleration in the rise of quality of life in this country. A lot of people have now these attainable aspirational goals. Right. I want to eat well. I want my kids to have a better life. Right, and if that means the fancy meal is the like better than the you know, the grains I had to eat, then so be it. You know, forget larger problems here.
I have a problem Thursday. I got to solve for that, we get it, and we also want to recommend again you mentioned this outlier. The Guardian articles on this are pretty great. South China Morning Post also has some good stuff. Keep in mind they are state run media. I hope everybody gets a chance to check out some of these stories because they also go into the vast surveillance applied
to this. Because remember whether or not regardless of the life forms living in a skyscraper, it's still a skyscraper. There are a lot of pigs in there, there are a lot of people, and it is very much a factory. So the level of monitoring applied to the things. Just to respond to our friends in China who had apartment envy, I don't think you want to be surveilled on this level. Hmm. Interesting. I mean also also there are people worried about whether
or not this will again create a new problem. Could this be a vector or a a breeding ground for dangerous pseudotic infections? As Dirk Feiffer, the chair Professor at City University or One Health at City University of Hong Kong said, quote, the higher density of animals, the higher risk of infectious pathogen spread and amplification, as well as the potential for mutation. What do you guys think, is that a little too doom and gloom or is there validity to that concern. I think there's validity.
I also maybe take this opportunity to to talk about how when we were discussing with Jenner first, you know, the idea of other possible alternatives for the COVID nineteen outbreak. You know, it's not to say that these mutations couldn't take place in a situation like a wet market or something like this type of factory farming. I just personally found some of the arguments that were made in that
documentary to be pretty compelling and interesting. Not to mention that we recently saw a story about another lab leak of some really virulent pathogens here in the United States. So I just wanted to take the opportunity to say, absolutely, these things can happen, and it can happen as a result of poor monitoring and regulation of these.
Types of facilities. And I'd like to, in that spirit, take the opportunity to think all of you are fellow conspiracy realists who responded to us as a group or as individuals with your thoughts on our interview with Jenner first again in the documentary is thank you Doctor Foul. Please do check it out. Likewise, I was, I was fascinated by this. We'd love to hear your thoughts. And speaking of hearing your thoughts, as we close every listener mail segment here, we like to have a letter from home.
We talked about it a little bit. I think have just enough time to share a letter that really, I don't know inspired all of us, I would say. From a guy named Wes working with Peta. Wes says, Hi, Ben, Matt, and Noel. We caught last Thursday's listener mail segment and wanted to thank you for sharing anonymous owls, many wonderful tips for helping wildlife, and for pointing listeners to our web page with state by state resources. We also have a page with detailed steps for rescuing wild animals in
need that you're welcome to share. We were also delighted to hear you point out how bizarre it is that humans kill some animals, including cows, but love and protect others, whether they're the companions we share our homes with or the wildlife we encounter outside. Thank you, Wes. That's always really bugged me and I think bugged all of us after all, Wes continues, cows feel love, joy, pain, and fear exactly as cats and dogs do, and i'd add pigs.
This is an example of speciism, the misguided belief that some species are inherently superior to or more worthy of consideration than others. And then PETA sends us a helpful link to learn more about speciism, says thank you again, and if there's ever any way we can serve as a resource for you about this or any other animal topic, please don't hesitate to contact us. Kind regards West Burdett, the press officer of PETA. I can't believe you wrote to us, Wes.
Thank you.
That's the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, right, yes, yes, yeah, and just yeah. We certainly there's certainly been campaigns spearheaded by PETA that maybe have perhaps been a little bit inflammatory, and some people might have issue with some of the lines that they take on things, or maybe some of
the extreme perspectives. But I think every bit of information that Wes wrote to us is absolutely accurate and appropriate, and I thought it was really really thoughtful, and I really appreciate the resources.
Yeah, if you want to find those, you can search PETA and then locating a wildlife rehabilitator or the other resource that was sent. You could search for PEDA wildlife emergencies, how to help and when not to interfere.
Yeah, and thank you for that, Matt, Thank you for that, Wes. I also wanted to note, yes, obviously we are aware PETA as an organization. It's been around for a while. It has encountered its share of controversy over the years, and this happens with any organization of that size. Yet I hold firm I will stand on this hill omnivores
dilemma aside. Shout out to the author, Michael Poland. The idea of speciism is very real and it is impacting a world that is still wrestling with the dwindling biodiversity on the planet right now. It is quite possible if things keep going the way they are, that when you have grandchildren, if you're human, you will sound like a crazy guy when you say, oh, there used to be animals in the wild. You could just be in the woods and he just run into something and they'll say, ah,
you're crazy man. Next thing you're going to say you had to use your hands to access the Internet.
Makes me think of Aloy and the robot animals of the Horizon series.
Nice. Nice, We're going to call it here, folks. Thank you, as always so much for tuning in to our listener mail program. Please tune in as we approach the end of the new year. We have such wonders to show you. Big thanks to oz Woman, Big thanks to Sarah, Big thanks to also all the other therapists who have contacted us regarding that specific type of therapy. Big big thanks to Outlier, Big thanks to WESB and in advance, if we could get by with a little help from our friends.
Big thanks to you, fellow conspiracy realist, for contacting us right now. But wait, how do you do it? Do you do you send an email? Do you call on the phone? Do you do you go online? Well, gosh, Ben, I'm glad you brought that up.
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