Welcome to our classic episode, Conspiracy Realist. Hey, guys, do you sometimes think that rich people might be rigging the game? No, just a little. I just choose to believe the narrative.
Yes, is the answer to that question.
Kay, are right, I'm being coy.
They've been doing it since the dawn of time. And this episode, y'all, is a very specific one about the death of a journalist who was covering this very thing.
We call it the Panama Papers. Let's get to it.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is our compatriot, are Better Third is on a bit of an adventure, but he will return shortly.
Better Third, Crucial, Third, Crucial Third. In the meantime, they call me Ben. We were joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decands. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. A little bit of true crime today.
Matt, Yeah, very true and very crime.
Yes, and very much ongoing. So longtime listeners will remember that back in the day we had Alex Winter on this show. That's right, Do you remember that?
Well?
Yeah, absolutely. It was one of my favorite interviews we've ever done, one of the Bill and Ted of the Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, and was the other one.
The Bogus Journey fogust Journey, Bogus Journey featuring Death.
But he's not just some silly young kid running through time and trying to finish papers for a history class. No, that gentleman Alex Winter. He is a documentarian and he has put out some great work. One was on the Deep Web or the dark Net, and that's what we interviewed him for.
And this this guy incredibly nice, very generous with his time, loves hot pockets. I think that's still my favorite part of the interview. Did that make it onto the air.
I don't know if I think we may.
Have cut that part. There was a part in the interview just backstage off Mic. It was probably off Mike because we're professionals now or what. Yeah, he said, hang on, guys, he's making a very good point about something. He said, hold on, hold on, hold on, he said what And then we hear Dan in the background He's like, I'm making hot pockets, Like.
Don't eat him, it's too hot yet. Yeah, just wait, wait for a second.
Yeah, the weight it was the worst part. We really bonded. Yeah. He did Deep Web, which was a fascinating exploration of something that I think a lot of people get wrong when they read about it in the news. But that is far from his only film. He also released a documentary recently on the Panama Papers.
Yes, the Panama Papers. This is a topic that we've done an episode on before. In the past. It was called money Mystery and Millionaires.
It was a very illiterative phase for us.
Yeah, yeah, it was. But the Panama Papers were is a very serious thing. It was a leak, the largest leak in human.
History, something around eleven point five million files from dating back to the seventies to twenty fifteen or so. That's two point six terabytes of data detailing these secret financial relationships and attorning client privileged information, the kind of stuff you would never ordinarily see.
Yeah, it was dealing. You're talking about shell companies and offshore accounts and secret just money moving, almost laundering almost in some cases.
It was definitely laundry. Yes, so this This all comes from a law firm in Panama called Massik Fonseka.
Yep, that's that's the one. And so you might wonder, well, why on earth would someone at music Fonseica send out that much information. Well, there was a person who was identified as John Doe. They were given to a German newspaper by this anonymous person, and then there was a landslide, essentially a very secretive landslide of information, and people investigating kind of in the shadows because this seemed like very dangerous stuff to have.
Indeed, indeed it did, because this involves over two hundred thousand different offshore entities. And this John Doe spoiler alert folks, that's probably not this person's real name.
Gonna, you know, gonna go ahead and say, I probably.
Agree, Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't ordinarily profile. But this, this character, this John Doe person said that they themselves feared for their lives because the nature of the evidence, just the facts, the information that's involved in this leak. In some cases it confirmed long suspected crimes. We know this person is maybe doing something very white collar like tax avoidance, Yeah, but we can't quite prove it, We can't quite follow the money due to different different countries ways of handling
financial transactions. That's a big thing, yes.
And these types of financial transactions a lot of times in our minds, I think collectively, we think of this as something that maybe a drug lord would participate in, maybe somebody who is doing some kind of illegal activity that needs to, like we said, launder money for some reason. But what we found out in these Panela papers is that these kinds of activities are just kind of par for the course for anyone who has enough money.
Yeah, above a certain threshold, it is normalized to engage in these sorts of practices. And in our previous episode, which you absolutely should listen to if you haven't checked it out yet, in our previous episode, we explore how the German paper came to find the safest way to disseminate and analyze this info. We also found just how many people had been to your point, Matt, how many
people had been named. These financial movements through shell companies involve athletes, involve bankers, involve criminals you know as in like drug cartel overlords and stuff, but it also involves politicians. British Prime Minister David Camberon was implicated in this. Yeah, and the Icelandic Prime Minister Sigmunder Goonluk Sun had to resign. I believe he ultimately stepped down. Also, a lot of these transactions that we see moving money from one shell
company to another to get the best tax position. That stuff's legal. It's a legal thing.
Yeah, then what are you gonna do about it? Right? I mean, it's just we're the big players of the world and this is what we're doing. If it's if it's proven to be tax avoidance, then it's illegal. If it's just moving money around and make sure it's safe in Switzerland somewhere, or Panama, it's fine.
Sure, it's just gambling. And you know, Vegas baby, that's what That's probably what people say.
That's what they That's what they all say in Panama. Vegas baby, that's what they all say.
That's what they all say. In the country of Panama. They'll say, Vegas baby. Why is this a big deal? Though? If these things are legal, if it's just a depiction of a confidential yet still legal financial process, what gives where's the beef?
Well, because not all of it is legal.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah, In multiple cases, the transactions indicate some pretty heavy stuff. Perhaps most importantly, the Panama papers show the clear process through which these sorts of financial crimes occur. It's possible using this information to follow money from point A to B, to C to Z and so on. That is in
itself extraordinary. So from a criminal perspective, this exposes a large industry built entirely to hide money, whether it's a legal form of tax avoidance, whether it's out and out fraud, whether it's bribery disguised as a loan, which I thought was interesting.
Yeah, and I think you're hitting the nail on the head here, Ben. It's not even so much about the players that are essentially the clients moving money. It's about the system like the at Masak Fonseka that was built to do this thing, the giant, I don't know what we call it, the machine that ends up processing everything. That's where that's that can be dangerous.
Yeah, that's that's what I'm thinking too. So for instance, let's let's go with the automobile analogy. Okay, all right, So the people riding in the car, or are the people named in these transactions, got a gasoline or petrol or whatever is the money.
Just got pumping in.
Okay, And what the Panama Papers showed us was the engine. It took us under the hood. And so we see how the money moves, and we know it takes these people to certain places. Right.
I don't want to overthink this comparison.
Maybe the passengers are the money, Okay, the engine is the machine that's moving it to somewhere because the money is going places, right yeah.
Okay, then and you're spending money to do it.
Yes, okay, that's right. So the money is also the gas.
Okay, let's get a whiteboard. Paul, do we have a whiteboard? Wait?
Wait, Paul's been writing all this down. He's just been etching it into the wall. Oh wow, that's very helpful. We are going to have to replace that to Paul.
You know, it needs to be transparent. This terrible comparison we've created should exist for all time. It wasn't that bad. I thought it was great, But the release of these papers was not great for the folks involved. It was not all sunshine and rainbows on their end. No.
Absolutely, And you can kind of feel that Ben and I are having fun in the studio and this is one of those topics that is going to get very heavy. We just I think that's something that Ben you and I do when we're talking about something that's pretty heavy. Just give a little lightness to it, but prepare yourself.
That's true, that's true. This is a bit of the I called it. I used to call it the MPR story formula, but it's not not really MPR. It's more programs that are on MPR, like the Moth or something. So what you do is you start out with a lighthearted statement or something very bold in one sentence, got it, and then you save the heavy stuff for the turn
at the end. And this is where we're approaching the turn to our second half, folks, because when that German paper student Deutsche Zeitung received the original leak and they realized the size of the stuff they were dealing with, they started, as you said, Matt, secretly asking for help throughout the journalistic community. Yes, because we need multiple sources to confirm this stuff is true. First off, do we know this is even real? If so, how that's a long, arduous,
tedious process. And John Doe complicated it because John Doe, fearing for their life, had certain conditions.
Yeah, they could only com or. He could only communicate with them and them back through encrypted channels, which is I would say, kind of standard for this kind of thing, is very Edward Snowden in a way, almost like digitally putting your cell phone in the freezer. They could also never meet face to face, so neither side would know
exactly I guess who they were talking to. Well, in this case, I'm sure John Doe knew some of the names of the journalists, and you could definitely see through his actions just how scared this John Doe was about his actions and about the power that these papers held.
And as of today, we still know very very little about this individual or this group of people pretending to be an individual. We simply know that they treated this situation with enormous gravity, and we still publicly don't know their motivation for disseminating this knowledge. But as it turns out, John Doe, whoever he or she or they may be, was absolutely correct. This was indeed a life or death situation, and the story continued after we did our original episode.
So what do we mean when we say life or death? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. We'd like to introduce you to Daphne Karuna Galizia.
She was born August twenty sixth, nineteen sixty four. She was a Maltese journalist. She was an author and an activist,
and she was also a just a prolific blogger. She's basically the you could call her a classic trope of the no excuses I'm gonna tell truth to power investigative journalists, essentially just functioning on her own and with organizations, but definitely you could read you could read her passion for that kind of stuff in her blog, and if you're interested in it right now, you can, like, as we're talking about this up yeah, yeah, you can go over there.
Let me just pull it up really fast. The website is Daphne d A p h n E Karuna c A r u A n A Galiza g A l I z i A dot com and you can go there right now and you can just see all of these posts that she made, and like I said, you can you can see her passion.
And she spent decades building her reputation in Malta and abroad, primarily for investigations into what she saw as the corruption riddled government society and industry of Malta. She examined things like the link between Malta's online gambling and organized crime, or something called the citizenship by investment scheme, also known as golden visas. And this one was an interesting one
because this happens in a ton of countries. This happens in the US, this happens in the UK if you pay a certain amount of money, or you by paying we mean in some cases, if you invest in a company or something at a certain amount of money, maybe one hundred thousand dollars, probably probably more.
Yeah, I mean it sounds like it's a good starting point.
And then you get residency and eventually you get citizenship. This is a legal thing. It's of course, it's incredibly unfair. Yeah, most most citizenship requests that are granted every year are not this. This is this is a wealthy person's loophole.
Yes, right.
So the problem with happening in Malta is that because they're a member of the EU. Uh, there was concern that they would they were essentially selling passports to people who would be maybe unfriendly, uh, unfriendly to the West, got it. But because they had an EU passport, they could do things like travel to the US without a visa, and they could also launder some money as well, because with citizenship come certain rights.
Yes, she was on the trail of all kinds of money laundering throughout her career, and also, you know, kind of some other standard things like nepotism within government, within corporations, government corruption, which is an old standby.
Yes, especially in Malta.
Yeah, she was really speaking truth to power.
And she paid for it. Malta is not a large nation, that's right. A lot of people know each other. She was the target of intimidation, lawsuits, threats of lawsuits for libel and so on for most of her career. She was arrest by the multi police force twice. Someone set the front door of their house on fire in ninety six.
Yeah, that's that's really bad. The worst one is that the family dog, her family's dog had its throat cut and it was laid across her doorstep.
And then another dog got shot, I believe. Yeah, so there was a murder attempt on her life. In two thousand and six. The house was set on fire while the family was asleep inside, and according to her son Matthew, these threats occurred on an almost daily basis, so this is a very high stakes life. Every day, thousands and thousands of people are following her blog Running Commentary, and she's also a regular contributor in Calmness for the Sunday Times of Malta, the Malta Independent.
And just to point that out what Benja said there, the Running Commentary is the name of the blog that we mentioned earlier.
Yes, yeah, yeah. The website is ww dot Daphne Karunagalizia dot com, but the name of it is Running Commentary. So far we've painted the picture of a fascinating journalist, right and the largest leak in human history that we know of. How are they related other than just accurate journalism.
They're related because it turns out that Galisio was the first person to learn about Panamanian companies involved in various crimes by Multese nationals and specifically politicians, specifically politicians, active politicians, politicians and power. And she had put these pieces together before the Panama papers leaked. They were transmitted to the
German paper in twenty fifteen. They went public in twenty sixteen, but she had figured out some aspects of this and the stuff she had figured out was confirmed by these Panama papers leaking.
Yeah, so back in February twenty sixteen, she was talking about this guy, Conrad Mizzi or Measi. He was a Maltese government minister and he had connections, or at least she's hinting that he had connections to New Zealand and Panama. Two of the places that we found in the Panama papers were laundering money or at least involved in some
of those things. And then apparently he Mizzi revealed the trust just two days after she started hinting at this stuff, and he was claiming that it was meant to manage his family's assets, which is one of his involvement with these things. And that is one very common thing that we see. The very very wealthy a lot of times have assets that are tied up in familial relations, inheritance, things like that, massive amounts of money and they have to be protected.
And it's okay, right, trying to be nice, Yeah, I get it. That same month, though, in February, this journalist also revealed that the Prime Minister's chief of staff a guy named Keith Shembrie, and the Prime Minister is Joseph Musket At this time owned they owned a similar trust in New Zealand, which in turn held a Panamanian shell company. The leak confirmed that Missy Conrad Mizzy owned a company called Herneville Incorporated, and that Missi and this guy Shembrie
had also opened another company, Tillgate Incorporated. These companies were owned by the Orion Trust New Zealand Limited, which are the same trustees of Mizzi and Shembrie's New Zealand Trust and a couple of other things.
Yeah, so again that sounds really confusing. Sure, Yeah, basically these guys opened front companies or shell corporations, not necessarily front companies, those are different things. But there's shell corporations that exist in these other companies other countries. And that's what we know, right for sure.
That's what we know, that is proven, that is true. And again Galicia was the person who exposed this information in Malta, and she continued in twenty seventeen. She alleged that another Panamanian company called a Grant was owned by Michelle Mascott, the wife of the Prime Minister. These allegations are what ostensibly compelled Mascott to call general elections in twenty seventeen, and he still won. He still won the election.
Yeah.
The last blog post that Galisia leaves, the last sentence of the last blog posts that she would ever write, says, there are crooks everywhere you look. Now the situation is desperate.
Then on October sixteenth, twenty seventeen, it was the last time Matthew Karuna Galiza saw his mother alive. This is this is her son. She was out running errands. She was just heading to the bank in her car. It was a gray Pougeot one eight. It's a type of vehicle. And apparently a government minister had gotten the courts, you know, perhaps out of some kind of backlash, I don't know, but he had gotten the courts to freeze her bank accounts, and she was intending to fight for access to her
funds because it's her money. Then her son, seemingly out of nowhere, heard an explosion. He was only about eighty meters away from where this explosion occurred, and according to Matthew, he immediately knew, at least he felt at least that this was a car bomb and it was meant for his mother.
Yes, which is is something that sounds like maybe a strange conclusion to jump to right away.
I imagine the I imagine there had to have been some outward I don't want to say paranoia. I mean, I'm sure it would manifest from the outside as paranoia, but from the inside, it was just knowing the truth of her situation.
Maybe this was also not the first time even that year that a car bomb had been used as a tool of assassination. This was the sixth time. There would have been five more car bombing attacks, some with survivors from one in January, September, October. Yeah, it was a messy, messy business. What we're saying is he would have also already have heard about something like a car bomb being used this way.
So he's standing there, this explosion occurs, He's only eighty meters away. He starts running down the road. He's barefoot. He's frantically calling his mother's cell phone. He heard a car horn blazing, he smelled burning fuel, and then he saw it. It was his mom's car. It was on fire, and it was just sitting there on fire in a field of wildflowers, And he apparently saw pieces of flesh laying on the ground, and he certainly feared the worst, and he was right. And then Matthew her Son recounted
this horrific scene in a social media post. In there, you know, within that post he's he's speaking to the authorities in a negative manner, saying that they allowed for this culture of impunity to fester and inside Malta, saying that this guy Joseph Muscat, these other people that we've mentioned, Keith Shembrie, Chris Cardona, Conrad Mizzi, even the Attorney General
Peter Gretch, basically this huge list of police commissioners. He was saying all of these people took no action, and he was saying that they were complicit in her death.
It's true that being a journalist is globally speaking, a dangerous business. Dozens of journalists are murdered every year around the world, and usually we're seeing that happen in places that are war zones or spheres of conflict, or countries with a weak rule of law or weak protections for
freedom of speech. This was a massive shock to a lot of people in the West because the European Union considers itself a haven for journalism in many ways, so this felt blatant, public and grizzly it was not just meant to remove a person, much like polonium poisoning. It was meant to send a message. And I'm making the polonium reference not to say that this was a Russian, a Russian manufactured hit, but just to say, you know, there was visibility was meant to be part of it.
It was condemned in editorials from some of the most widely followed, well respected news sources around the world. You know, all the hits, The New York Times, CNN, Financial Times, The Guardian, the Economists, I believe. After her death, an international consortium of journalists launched the Daphning Project, which was coordinated by Forbidden Stories. Forbidden Stories as a Paris based organization dedicated to continuing the work of killed or imprisoned journalists.
Even Julian Assange weighed in.
Yeah, he announced that he was going to pay twenty thousand euro a reward essentially for any information leading to the conviction of Karuna Galiza's killers. That's a huge deal
that Julia Saunders would step up and do that. Galiza's family then filed a legal claim against the police force in Malta and they allege that the investigation or whatever investigation is occurring has not been independent or impartial because of connections between a senior police investigator and a government minister.
Because again all those people she implicated and had things to say about, they have the potential to have influence within the law enforcement sphere, and both were subjects of Karuna Gliza's block exactly.
And where does this leave us now? So the facts so far are that the Panama papers leak, they confirm what a long time investigative journalist slash activist has said in the country of Malta, and after numerous attempts on her life, she dies. One of the murder attempts works. So what happens next, we'll tell you after a word
from our sponsor. So fast forward. Ten people were arrested in raids at dawn on December fourth, twenty seventeen, in relation to this murder investigation, which was at the time quite controversial because the journalists around the world and journalists support associations the survivors of Galiza's death, they all are convinced that there is a cover up a foot and
you can't really blame them. Eventually, three people were charged for the murder for committing the acts of rigging a car bomb and detonating it, and his brothers named George and Alfred di Giorgio and Vincent muscatt Despite all these protests in Malta and abroad, it appeared that the government of the country was indeed factually was actually dragging its feet in the investigation. The three suspects claimed their arrest and searches violated their fundamental rights, which in practice worked
as a way of delay in the trial. And now it leads us to the Panama Papers in twenty nineteen, because years after the leak, you have to wonder how much this has actually changed the situation on the ground. It's something you and I talked about in the first episode of the Papers. I mean, these things, these things blow up, right, and this information is revealed, but those shell companies, except for a few egregious ones, are still around.
Yeah. It definitely reminds me of the financial crash of two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, where we as a human people saw the cracks in the system and the blatant holes in the system, and the way the machine itself was rigged, and yet nothing really changed. I think there was one arrest I could tell I know of and maybe they're a handful of arrests in that situation. And it's the same with the Panama Papers. There was a man named Richard Gaffney was He lived
in Massachusetts. He was an accountant. He was apprehended in twenty eighteen, in December. That was the first the first arrest occurred for the Panama Papers in the US. Yeah, in December of twenty eighteen. I mean there have been there again, there's been a handful of people who have gotten in various levels of trouble throughout the world because of the Panama Papers. Some politicians have stepped down at least in part due to the Panama Papers coming out,
or at least had to apologize. I remember when David Cameron had this whole story. It was the same thing with you know, this is my family's money and it's just in a trust and we're just moving it around.
But Vegas, baby, Yeah, there we go. That's what that was what Cameron said. Yes, it's mostly his black track money.
Yeah, But the United States is different from in Malta, it's different from New Zealand, it's different from in Panama where it's actually occurring, and in Malta. There is a clear issue.
Yes, we'll put it simply. The people who are in charge of investigating this murder are the people that Galizio was investigating when she was alive, or they're closely affiliated with the people that she accused of cover ups crime and even things ranging into support of violent crime.
It's like a waterfall of paychecks. Basically, who signs your paycheck well and goes all the way up. Oh yep, it's that.
Guy, turtles all the way down. Yeah, and their terror all the way down perhaps, And you can't blame people for saying there's something screwy with this investigation. One. I think the Prime Minister continued to pursue a libel case against against Galicia after she was dead and said he would drop it if everyone agreed that he.
That he's cool and he didn't do anything right.
And I'm laughing with a bitter note here, because you see, at this point it's widely agreed that these three men who are currently in custody for this crime, it's widely agreed that they were not the brains behind the operation. They are all are all slightly older, low level criminals, most mostly known for their activity in the diesel smuggling business,
which is a big business in Malta. Yeah, so who is at the top, you know, someone who would be we were looking then in that case, we're looking for someone who fits a couple of descriptions or couple of profiles. We're looking for someone who has enough money or enough you know, financial clout such that they would be a subject of something in the Panama papers. Yes, they have to be shell company rich, right.
Probably not an elected official. It might be a one step removed from elected official.
Sure, yeah, it might be somebody who bought a passport who knows and travels internationally, but they're somehow involved in Maltese business, because otherwise Dealisia wouldn't have run up against them, you know what. Right, So it's someone who is probably on an international sphere, maybe in politics, but definitely closely related to someone in politics. Let's say they at the very least have an interest in Maltese governance, right or some regulations, and they're not the type of person to
go out and rig a carbon themselves. They probably are quite possibly not to be unfair to this horrific excuse for a person, but they probably don't know how to break a car bomb.
I would agree with that.
So the investigation and the cover up continues. We mentioned earlier these three criminals had said their rights were violated. As of February twenty nineteen, when we're recording this, it seems that the trial may finally begin. That's right, begin, yeah, and.
It's so it's good right. That was twenty seventeen when they argued that their rights are being violated. Now two years later later, the investigation is going on. The police are actually trying to find more suspects connected with the murder, so trying to go up that chain to see who actually ordered it. And this includes people who are suspected to be linked with the commissioning that's, like we said, but not the putting together the bomb, but the commissioning
of the bomb. And foreign investigators have questioned the reluctance of the Maltese police to kind of keep this trial going and make it happen, and they've also questioned the reluctance of them to proceed against more suspects because that's where it could get really tricky, right for the police themselves.
That's where you get a little True Detective Season one right following up the chain, up the food chain of crime. Yeah, it's believed that there may be between three and five other people who have who are known to the police or known to law enforcement, but have not been publicly revealed. The argument being that they're not slowing up the investigation on purpose, they just need to gather more evidence at this point. Again's controversial thing. A lot of people don't
believe the story. A lot of European news outlets still follow the investigation and the trial. There's an Italian daily paper called La Republica and it's been following a it's been barking up a specific theory tree that may be of interest to people who are familiar with this case or we're just learning about it. The suspects in the murder, the diesel fuel smugglers. It seems a very strange and
specific type of crime. They apparently, according to this paper, have a connection with someone called Christian Cardona, Malta's current Minister of Economics economy minister. In the weeks leading up to Galizia's assassination, this guy, Christian Cardona, was spotted in a remote bar on Malta twice with one of the guys who is later charged with detonating the car bomb.
Cardona responded calling this report baseless, conjecture and outright fabrication. Officially, Kurt Ferugia, spokesperson for the Maltese government, stated, the government is confident that anyone else responsible will be found and brought to justice. We continue to support all efforts by the police and investigating magistrate to find the truth. Malta is committed to upholding human rights, freedom of speech, the protection of journalist and the rule of law. Who who doesn't agree?
It sounds like great pr But you know, Galizia's family does not agree with this, I think fairly obviously. And we know this because Matthew her Son was quoted in The Atlantic who. By the way, Matthew is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. Pretty awesome. Apple did not fall far from the tree there, but he, Matthew and his two brothers have been lobbying European lawmakers and like all these international organizations for months and months and months, trying to
call attention to problems within the investigation itself. So let's look at that quote. Matthew said, my mother was assassinated for reporting on corruption in Malta and He also sent out a tweet on the anniversary of her death. He said, the people who did it are still free. They sit in parliament and on private jets. It's this simple.
Wow. Yeah, it's heavy hitting. The investigation continues, as does on some level, the cover up.
Absolutely.
Some people are a little more optimistic than others and think that ultimately the brains behind the operation will be named or brought to justice. But for many other people, unfortunately, this is just another day in Malta. I know, not to sound Chinatown about.
It, well in it it's also another day in the upper echelons of power and influence.
It's true. That is absolutely true. At this point, that's where the story ends. For now, it continues, and hopefully one day we can come back with an update showing that justice was served. But for now we want to hear from you. Why do you think these financial crimes and these sorts of assassinations coming go so quickly in the news. Why do you think there's not more following up on the Panama papers here in the United States?
Yeah? Please, we want to know those things. Do you think it had something to do with the connection or maybe a crossroad somewhere between politics and organized crime. We'd like to hear from you if you know anything. Be very careful about writing to us, but we would love to hear it. You know. If not, send it to a journalist somewhere within your country, just do it carefully. If you want to find us on social media and connect with us that way, we are at Conspiracy Stuff
in most places, at Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. Ben you have a personal Instagram.
That's true. It is at Ben Bolan in a burst of unbridled creativity.
At Ben Bolan. Hs. No, it's at Ben Bolan. Oh, that's awesome. I am not I have one, but you will never find.
It right right, it's enormously difficult to locate.
You don't want to see it. It's just pictures of my son and I. And if you don't want to connect with us that way, you can find out our Facebook group.
Ah. Yes, here's where it gets crazy, where you can hang out with our favorite part of the show, your fellow listeners. It's also a great spot to pitch us some ideas for future topics, or to get some feedback from other people about a weird thing you saw in the news. Because it's cool to crowdsource. That's that kind of fact checking, you know what I mean. And we have the greatest mods on the planet, and we have some top notch mods. That's right. Their MOTTERI is beyond compare.
And let's say you're someone who says, yeah, got something you need to know. I want to tell you, but I'm more of an audio person. Well, we have good news for you. You can call us directly.
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