Philip Conspiracy Realists. We are returning with tonight's classic episode. This is something that remains incredibly sensitive and incredibly important in the modern day. As we all know, statistically, you or a loved one has battled with a group of diseases that we collectively call cancer.
Yes, and likely lost people in your life, right, hor horrifying. I know, I have I know you probably have to. There are a lot of human beings who have come along gosh, what do you want to say, guys centuries no, a century maybe where people have come along and said, hey, we've got the cure for you.
Here.
This is going to get rid of all of that horrifying cancer. We just need lots of money.
Right, yes, because each year millions of people across the planet still grapple with these with these medical conditions, and one type of treatment for one type of cancer may not apply to other kinds of cancer. It's very much a real killer, and it's something that some of the smartest people in the world are still attempting to solve. However, as you alluded to there, Matt, it's sadly no surprise that there are a lot of people who claim that
they have cured some or all forms of cancer. And there's a lot to wrestle with here, and.
There's a lot in the news right now about some truly potentially amazing advancements in that direction. And this isn't something that we want to think about negatively in terms of the conspiracy of it all. But there are certainly those that would take that promise of a cure for cancer and use it to cash in.
Yeah, for sure, we're going to talk about it in this episode, So let's get into it.
Those to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name.
Is no One.
They call me Ben. We were joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck. At most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Another peak behind the curtain. This is the first time in quite a while that the whole crew has been together in the same studio.
And another peek behind the curtain. Matt said, his name originally kind of in an odd cadence, and I made him start over and correct it, and then I copied said odd cadence in my sign on. So I'm a jerk.
That's so brown town of you, so brownish.
So one note and brown note.
So how have you guys been doing? Hey?
Great, Ben, I hope you're doing well too. You were on the Biggest Adventures. We've recorded one episode since you've returned. And you know, the one thing we haven't actually addressed yet together as a team.
What's that, Matt is our.
Time out in La We what we got to do with mister Dan Harmon.
That's true. We did mention this in previous episodes. We wanted to be transparent, of course, given the kind of show that we do here, and you know, I can't believe it. We actually did it. We went on Harmontown and then we also had Dan over on an episode of Stuff they Don't want you to know, which, by the time this recording comes out should be available now, right.
Yeah, And I just have to say it was incredible, basically starting a conversation on Harmontown on stage, then continuing onto our show where we just kind of kept talking in more depth about the same things.
There was even the chapter of the conversation that you were not privy to that was sort of in the dressing room in between the show or before the show, and then after the show, and then we did our show, and then we continue the conversation even still at a little dive bar in Hollywood called the Frolic Room, which is Hollywood institution. Yeah, and it was just the whole thing was kind of surreal and delightful in many many ways.
Yeah, and we just we hope you enjoyed the episode as you were listening to it. It was a delight for us.
So it's a weird one, Yeah, it is. It is definitely a weird one. And to your point, Nol, I'm also wondering how coherent the conversation will be given that several hours of what was essentially a two day episode will not see the light of day.
Not to mention, we just now got the preview of that in real time, you know, got the preview of that episode to listen to. We always listen to them before published, and I think we're all a little bit on the edge of our seats wondering what it's actually gonna sound like. You are out there in podcast land already know.
Well, yeah, you're gonna get the refined product.
Yeah, we're in a situation that some English teachers would refer to as dramatic irony, because you, the audience, know something that we do not.
Yeah, it's true.
So let's hope. Let's hope it's uh, let's hope it's good. One way or the other. It's done. And I don't think that we've heard the last of Dan Harmon, you know, I mean obviously not, because he's gonna make tons of new shows, but he might be on this show again in the future.
So we hope you like it.
Today we are talking about something much less, much less enjoyable.
Right, Well, actually this could be quite enjoyable because it's possible ways to cure ourselves of things our body is fighting against.
That's right, that's true. We do have to say at the top of today's show that nothing we say in this show, and none of the sources we quote, should be taken as medical advice.
Yeah, speak to your doctor or your GP, whoever you've got if you want to learn more about any of this stuff.
And if you get scared, don't hop on WebMD. Make an appointment go to a doctor.
Never hop on WebMD, you guys.
Never WebMD. It's cancer. That's that's their name, that's their tagline.
Literally, it's like it's like one of those float charts that always ends in cancer.
Yeah, and today we're exploring one of the most sensitive subjects in human experience, health and of course it's ever present shadowy end result death.
I thought you were going to say, wellness, Oh no, wells.
Well, that's that's good. Yeah. But they all and so far, the every single study that has ever been conducted on this subject has found that life is a terminal condition with a one rate of death fatality rate. And for the past few thousands of years, our species has made honestly extraordinary strides in the field of medicine. I'm not the most optimistic person, but even I can admit that
it was not an easy process. However, there is here's one anecdote that can show us how difficult medical progress is. Have have you all heard of ignos Semelwis?
Yes?
Yeah, I think we've mentioned him before on this show, just in passing though.
He's one of my favorite illustrations of someone who was called crazy and was right all along. However, you know, we've been in this situation, but no one has died of a result of as a result of people not believing us. Hopefully, ignos Semlviis was roundly ridiculed for the kakammy notion that hey, maybe before doctors assist assist in childbirth, they should wash their hands. Yeah, wash just hands.
Well, and it wasn't taken well because a lot of the people that he's speaking to were essentially just offended at the thought of you believe my hands to be dirty too, where I will infect others just by not cleansing them prior to delivering a baby.
I am a gentleman, sir, and you have violated my dignity.
Well, I mean then that kind of thinking, we have to remember, still exists within the realms of things that are just outside of what is accepted.
Well, it was a product of elitism too, right, It's like, you know, how dare you accuse me of being unclean? For I am at a higher station than you, sir, You.
Know exactly, like the diseases clearly come from the peasant class. Yeah, when all doctors are considered more patrician. It's so strange because some device was correct a ton of people didn't believe him, even though he had studies that proved he
was correct. And his bedside manner was also terrible if you were a D and D character charisma was his dumpstat like he was not good at talking with people in a civil manner because he knew he was right and he was angry about it, and this just exacerbated the situation. The academy turned on him. Eventually, Semmelweis ends up in an asylum at the age of forty seven, and eventually, ironically, he dies of sepsis MM infection in the blood. And this depressing anecdote gives us a window
into human nature. Oh also, thank you so much, Samuelweiss for playing such a huge part in us being alive to make the show today. We see some damning things about human psychology in this tale, and we also see some illuminating things about our collective approach to medicine. And we fast forward to twenty nineteen. We've made a lot of hard won medical progress, but some disease remain functionally
incurable here in the US. Two of the biggest killers are heart disease, which is treatable, you know, in number of ways. And of course the big C word. Cancer. Doctors, as you listen to this, are literally working day in and day out around the clock to discover new treatments, early detection methods, and more. But here's the thing, fellow conspiracy realists. Some people will tell you that there is a cure for some or all cancers, and that it
has been around for much longer than you think. But to figure out the answer to that question, we have to start at the beginning. So here are the facts.
What is cancer, you might be asking yourself. First, let's bust a few myths about the term cancer, which actually describes more than one hundred separate diseases, not all of which are created equally, but they are all characterized by an abnormal and unregulated growth of cells. This growth actually destroys surrounding tissue and can spread to other parts of the body through a process called metastasis.
And kudos for correctly pronounced that the first try that metastasis. That one's tough for me. I can see metastasize, but having to how do you pronounce it again?
Metastasis? Metastas But I also like metastasis. Yeah, that's another thing entirely though. Yeah, it's like meta not moving. I don't know, I know.
Right, it's not moving on several levels right in a deep way.
Ben, you have a really great analogy, I think, for a way to wrap your head around this idea, don't you?
Oh man, I hope it's at least serviceable. It's it felt like a good idea, like three in the morning. So when we hear cancer, just like you said, Nol, we're often we're often taught to think that cancer is itself a specific disease, but that's not the case. As you said, there are more than one hundred different diseases
that fit the classification of cancer. So when we hear the word cancer, we should think of it should be like hearing the word clothing, because clothing describes a group of things that all have a couple broad definitions in common, but they also specialize, right, So you have hats for your head, you have gloves just for your hands, and on and on and on and like articles of clothing,
cancers specialize in different parts of your body. You wouldn't wear a hat on your foot, and you wouldn't have breast cancer in your prostate, right, these are very different things. So when we look at the most common forms of cancer, at least here in the US. We run into our first Terrible Laundry list, which there are a few in today's episode. There's skin cancer, lung cancer, brain cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, colon cancer, ovarian cancer, leukemia, and lymphoma.
Yeah. I'm really what we're getting out of here is cancer can develop in any part of the human body. And it's not one of those things that you have to be a certain age where you know maybe cancer will develop. It becomes more likely sometimes depending on your life choices, but it really you can develop cancer at any age, and unlike something like AIDS or the flu, something infectious, let's say tuberculosis, you can't catch cancer from
somebody else from being around them. It's not contagious in any way. And generally cancers are caused by damage that occurs at the genetic level inside a cell. Right, That's how you get the single cell that becomes rogue and then begins multiplying and then infecting the other cells through metastasis. It's I mean, it really is as a scary thing because it's like one tiny, less than microscopic part of view that rebels against the programming and then can kill you.
And this is interesting. As a side note, there is a provable contagious cancer. It does not occur in humans. It occurs in Tasmanian devils. It's the devil facial tumor disease.
Jeez, I've heard of that actually, strangely, I don't know why. Must have seen some kind of mini doc about it or something.
Yeah, it's relatively recent in the literature. It was first described in nineteen ninety six. But it just ran through the population of Tasmanian devils. Luckily, there's nothing like that that we know of were humans so far. And why is that a very lucky thing? That's because cancer is one of the leading causes of death worldwide already. Back in twenty twelve, there were fourteen point one million new cases and eight point two million cancer related deaths across
the world. Literally millions of people are dying every year, and we have we have some sobering stats for the US specifically.
It's true, and that is according to cancer dot Gov, which estimates that seven hundred and thirty five thousand, three hundred and fifty new cases of cancer were diagnosed in the US in twenty eighteen and six hundred and nine thousand,
six hundred and forty people died from the disease. The most common cancers, which are listed here in descending order, according to estimated new cases in twenty eighteen, are breast cancer, lung and bronchus cancer, prostate cancer, colon and rectum cancer, melanoma of the skin, bladder cancer, non Hodgkins lymphoma, kidney and renal pelvis cancer. Then we have endometrial cancer, leukemia, pancreatic cancer, thyroid cancer, and last but not least, liver cancer.
But there's good news, thankfully. We're we're also going out of our way to point out moments of good news in this story.
There must be silver lining here.
Well.
The good news is that the cancer rates have actually dropped about twenty seven percent over the last twenty five years. I mean, that's fantastic, and I think, you know, without getting too deep into it right now, it has to do with just the amount of money and effort that's being spent on trying to find a cure. The problem
is again that we've kind of discussed before. It's not one thing you can't just throw money at a team of researchers to look at cancer, big C cancer, you have to study each individual part of the body and each individual cancer. But again, death rates dropped twenty seven percent. It translates to about one and a half percent per year and more than two point six million deaths avoided between nineteen ninety one and twenty sixteen.
And honestly, go team, Yeah, that's a tremendous improvement right now here. At the end of twenty nineteen, experts expect a total of one million, seven hundred and sixty two thousand, four and fifty new cancer cases and six hundred and six thousand, eight hundred and eighty deaths from cancer cancer related causes. This this means that although rates are dropping, people are still dying and everyone is aware of this. Everyone is aware of this. We know that people are
searching continually for a cure. According to researchers like kl Black, the cure for cancer is more a matter of when rather than a matter of if. Because, according to Black and their colleagues, there's been this explosive progress in our understanding of cancer. You know, reducing smoking rates that has a huge impact on cancer rates. You know, early to detection methods are a God send for people who believe
in God. And Black says that since we're since we're in an inevitable situation where we will find a cure for some cancers, it really becomes a question of how much we want to prime the pump. Black calls for increased research funding into all aspects of cancer research and says it needs to be at least twice the current levels of funding. But the tragic problem here, simply put, is this for many people curing cancer in twenty thirty or even twenty twenty five, isn't that's not coming soon enough.
The clock is already ticking on their lives.
And there's a deeper conspiracy there that we will get into about who benefits from cancer not being cured.
Gley Bono right. And that, of course assumes that the mainstream narrative is true, that there is sincere ardent research in treating and curing this type of disease and it may just not come soon enough. Unless that is, the cure for cancer already exists.
And we'll learn about that right after a word from our sponsor.
Here's where it gets crazy.
According to a two thousand and eight survey, as much as twenty seven percent of the United States population believes large pharmaceutical interests possess a cure for some or all cancers and actively suppress this treatment in order to boost their profits. We've heard this any number of times when it comes to the farm. I mean, just in terms of cures for all kinds of diseases or alternative medicaid.
Why the pharmaceutical lobby fights marijuana legalizations so much. I mean, you know, it's no proof, but the proof is in the putting. It seems pretty clear that's the case.
Yeah, and these conspiratorial claims. I love that you point that out, because these claims typically follow the same rough pattern, not just for cancer, but for things like HIV or AIDS.
The idea is that someone somewhere has invented or discovered a cure for cancer or a treatment that has a very high efficacy rate, right, And this cure, whether it be a simple one and done pill or a series of treatments you know, herbal remedies and so on, this cure is known to big pharma capital B capital P. But releasing it to the public, in this cabal's eyes, is less profitable than letting people slowly die or charging them for a subscription service. There are a couple of
things we could unpack. Let's pause for a second. A note. Twenty seven percent. You said twenty seven percent of people pulled. That's almost one out of three US residents believe that there is a cure that has been repressed. That puts this on the level of some of the great widely believed conspiracies in the lore, right, the moon landing, the JFK assassination.
Can we just talk about that survey was from two thousand and six, which is almost I don't know what we would call that from an Internet standpoint, but two thousand and six was like that era where I don't know information was really being put out there. I think back to the House Stuff Works website where there are so many people trying to put out so much information and just fill the Internet and fill in all the
spaces that could possibly be searched for. And it makes me wonder if that has anything to do with that twenty seven percent number.
I see, Yeah, maybe we were still as a country sharpening or critical thinking skills, right.
That's what I see, But perhaps I'm incorrect.
Well, there's also there's also the compelling argument that from a capitalistic stance, you're putting yourself out of business if you ever actually cure a disease, right, that's one of the commonly cited things.
Unless you control the one cure.
But then you only have to take it once. Right, Whereas you know, being prescribed medication is like a life sentence of cash flow, you know.
Yeah, And this this jibes with stuff that we know about the economy in general, which is that for more than a decade, US businesses have been moving away from ownership models towards subscription models, you know what I mean. And this is reflected ass the board, whether you're talking about automobiles, whether you're talking about medicine, whether you're talking about even clothing. Right, the ink in your printer, the ink in your printer.
Oh, that's insidious when it's all masquerading behind this facade of convenience, when it's really just a matter of getting you on the hook, and you think, oh, it's not that much per month, but then you add it up and then you maybe compare that to how much actual benefits you get from it, and you're really just funneling money into these corporations pockets or these startups or.
Whatever until your card gets canceled.
Exactly like when Adobe went entirely to a subscription model.
We're very lucky we get access to those products through work. But you know, if someone just wants photoshop, you can't. Maybe you can't. I'm not sure how it works. You can't just buy photoshop anymore to my knowledge. You got to pay that ten twelve bucks a month. Then you add that with your Hulu, add that with your Netflix, add that with your prescription drugs. Before you know it, you're out of pocket a whole lot every month.
And you don't own a damn thing. That's the strangest part. I know I'm using strong language there, But this suppressed cure, this palliative thing, this panacea could be described as any number of substances or treatments, and not all of the conspiratorial claims agree on what the cure might actually be. There are a couple of categories. They're natural or alternative treatments.
That could be stuff like aromatherapy, right, or herbalistic regimens, and then there's homeopathy or even unto shamanistic healing rights, you know what I mean. The idea that disease is as much a product of the mind as it is of the body. And there are some interesting studies that show one's cognitive state can have an effect on recuperation from physical trauma.
Oh absolutely well, And that leads into every one of these types of treatments when you get to aromatherapy or something, or one of the largest categories that exists in here, which is what you put into your body. Diet based solutions. There are things like the Browse Diet, the Hallelujah Diet, several others. Were going to get into one at the end of this episode. That's out there right now that I'm sure there are a lot of people following that believe it's going to cure them.
And I love the name the Hallelujah Diet. I had not heard of it before we begin researching for this. Just for an example, this is a pretty restrictive diet that purports to be biblical. It's based on raw food, and the inventor of the Hallelujah Diet is doing that. Not only am I the president, I'm also a member sure kind of thing because the inventor claim secured his own cancer.
A lot of those are vegan based or like a specific thing that you have to eat or refrain from eating to get your body back into some position of I was gonna say stasis, but that's not correct. Just there's harmony. To get harmony back within your body and all the cells.
Metastasis.
Yeah, metastasis.
There we go, the best kind of stasis. I don't know, I walk that one back. Yeahah, what I like it.
Uh.
So we see that, We see that diet can be a compelling treatment of some sort because we know that a vegan diet will tend to be better for you than a very heavy red meat diet. Right, as long as you're an adult, you're not still developing et cetera.
When it comes Yeah, exactly when it comes to certain things and at certain points in your life.
And there are also electromagnetic or energy based cures. Shout out to orgone energy, which is still fascinating to me.
Boy Wilhelm.
Yeah, mister Reike himself, doctor Reich. He's a doctor of sorts. It was easier to be a doctor in those days. This cloud doctor. There's a cloud doctor. I love it.
We talked about him last episode when you were here. We talked about cloudbusting Daddy dude.
Yeah, I'm having a weird deja vu moment right here.
Okay, because of the Kate Bush song that was about Wilhelm Reich and his rain machine No Cloudbuster.
The Cloudbuster or going energy, which is fascinating. Please if you haven't If you haven't heard of this before, do check out our audio and video episodes on Oregone and the strange interaction that Villa Reich had.
With the FDA.
I think at some point so there are also hybrid regimens that combined two or more treatments from the categories that we just mentioned. This belief the big pharma is suppressing a cure to one or more cancers is very common, and it finds fertile soil in the current zeitgeist, in the current social climate, because distrust the pharmaceutical companies runs
pretty high nowadays. And I would argue rightly so, especially given the Opie in the US, which swept through various regions of the country like a natural disaster.
And continues to do so.
Yeah, and then add to that, the US is cartoonishly high, like ridiculously high, drug costs when compared to literally every other developed nation, every single other one, and I know literally is a word that gets overused so often these days, just like awesome, right, But in this case, yes, literally every other developed nation is going to have better drug prices.
So even without hard proof of a conspiracy in this case, there are a lot of people who understandably will hear about the concept of any sort of suppressed medicine or treatment, and at the very least, even if they're not one hundred percent on board with the idea, they'll think, well, I uh, I wouldn't put it past them, you know what I mean. You know, it sound like the kind of screlly thing they'd be into.
But here's the deal. A lot of times the villain in these stories is Big Pharma with the B and a P. Another villain BP, No, not really a villain VP or whatever, just depends on your perspective. But ultimately, what I'm saying here is the pharmaceutical companies Big Pharma could not get away with this alone. They would need to have some cronies there with them, some people who
could get some other things done. They need help from, you know, the nonprofits that are out there that take in hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars government agencies and other independent researchers who are going through and either suppressing the research that's out there or you know, covering up various aspects of certain diets or cures.
Like is it do you guys think it is in any way possible that all of these different groups could be cooperating so that let's say US eight million people worldwide die each every year.
Wait a minute, I means some sort of massive cover up, conspiracy Hedgemond situation.
Well, ultimately, yeah, if if so, and we're walking through this hypothetically right, yes, yes, these different institutions would have to work together pretty well, right, and they would have to have some sort of omerta, some sort of brilliantly watertight agreement. And you know that number is true. If they are actively scheming to in some sort of plan that results in eight million people dying every year, this comes very close to being a case of medical genocide.
Let's be real for a second. What do you think the chances are this is actually the case?
I you know, I'm gonna save it for the end. Okay, I'm gonna save I'm gonna save it for the end, because just with that piece just hypothetically, that's a lot of cooperation, you know what I mean.
We've been talking about this a lot more lately since the Harmon thing. When when like, when can you smell a conspiracy? That's probably there's some has some sand. It's usually when that level of cooperation benefits all parties. Only then are people most likely to keep their mouths shut when the cover up is active and you know, necessary to continue to enrich said parties or you know, keep them from getting caught in some kind of collective lie.
Yeah, and well, you know, pre Epstein I would have been much more skeptical about some of these things. In this case, however, there is a big elephant in the room, which is, let's say it's true. Let's just hypothetically say it's true. What happens when one of the conspirators is diagnosed with cancer? Right? I mean do they say, well, for the good or the cause? You've got to continue on to stage four, buddy, we can't let people know.
Yeah, it's weird.
I mean, okay, so we did that survey right from two thousand and six, right, Well, in two thousand and two, there was a guy named Ted Gansler. This comes to us from one of our colleagues, author Dave Russ, writing over for Houstuff Works. Ted Gansler, at the time was a strategic director for pathology research with the American Cancer Society. He edits the Cancer Journal for clinicians. This guy's his
bona fides, right. He heard this hidden cure, the suppressed cure for cancer story so often that in two thousand and two he conducted a survey about the most common misconceptions of cancer, and in this he asked about one thousand Americans if they believed there was a conspiracy to hide a cure for cancer. According to Gansler, the result
was even more shocking than he had expected. He found and again this two thousand and two, that not only did twenty seven ven point three percent of the people polled believe that there was a cure for cancer being repressed, but another fourteen percent said, I don't know. It seems like something they would do, though maybe happen.
That's that's crazy, And again that's just kind of what we've been talking about here. It's another version of this conspiracy theory, or another aspect to it, is that that thought that somebody somewhere has a cancer cure and it's being kept secret for one reason or another.
Well, but to your question, Ben, I mean, if we're staying in the realm of hypotheticals and thought experiments, if one of the members of this conspiracy were diagnosed, wouldn't by virtue of being in the inner circle. They'd get the cure and they would just keep it quiet and they'd never come out with the fact that this person
was diagnosed. It would just be business as usual. Isn't that sort of the argument we make with the super elite that potentially possessed technology that's beyond the reach of us smear mortals, like life extension technology and things like that, is and that how it would work hypothetically hypothetically.
Yeah, But then we also have to wonder how to explain the deaths of people who are billionaires who expired due to cancer cancer related causes. Is that part of the cover up too? Do they really die of something else and they said, okay, call it cancer so that the peasants don't know we have the cure.
Well, and they're presumably living on a billionaire island somewhere.
Yes, Yeah, is Warren Buffett like the only billionaire who has a modest ranch style home he seems like he likes.
To keep it relatively unostentatious. For the most part. He spends his money in smart ways and not in showy ways. That's a good question, though, Ben.
I don't know. Let us know if you know a modest billionaire who can help illuminate our investigation into the idea of a suppressed cancer cure.
And maybe pump millions, if not billions into cancer research.
Right, Like, well, you know what, great example, David Coch died of cancer. Yeah. Right, So here's another twist to this story. Not only do about one one in three Americans believe that there's something fishy here, but there are multiple numerous groups, individuals, and institutions who claim not only is there a suppressed secure but that they have discovered
this cure or a cure. We could do an entire series on the various claims involved, but let's take a break for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll come back and we'll look at a couple of let's call them notable highlights. Guys. I've got to admit I've put this first one in here just because I think the guy's name is awesome. All of his claims aside, the name Royal Rife is an amazing name.
Classically good name, so good, somewhere between a news anchor and a porn.
Star perhaps perhaps. Yeah, And you know it's it's one of those names that I would use as a different persona, you know, in like an airport or a strange city.
Royal Raymond Rife, Hey, you go call me roy Royal. I mean, the only Royal I know is from the fictional Royal Tananbombs. His name was Royal, the main character made by Gene Hackman. I've never met I've never known a person named Royal before.
Well, you know, the future looms vast and welcoming before us, and the horizon of time rushes towards us.
Even now you think it's welcoming. I find it quite foreboding.
I'm you know, I am. I'm trying to manifest the secret, even if I don't believe in it.
The secret secret, the one from the book.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Subsequent film adaptation is gonna think positive.
Well, Royal Rife certainly was thinking positive when he developed a beam ray that's in quotations.
There's a beam, yes, what is it a beam or a ray?
It's a beam ray.
It's a beam ray. It's not a weapon. It's a you know, a tool to be used to cure certain diseases if aimed, you know, in the right place and used correctly. And one of those things that he thought he could cure was cancer. And the way it's done is through vibrating the cancerous cells. Vibration essentially is the means by which Royal Rife believed his beam ray could cure cancer.
Yeah, he built on the work of a fellow named doctor Albert Abrams. Abrams thought that every single disease had a unique electromagnetic frequency, and these men believe that because of that, doctors could kill or treat diseased or cancer cells by sending an electrical impulse identical to that cells electromagnetic frequency. This you've heard of this before, if you're a longtime listener to this show. This is sometimes called radioics r ad ion ICs.
It's a fascinating concept, right, if you could isolate just the bad cells and then take those out.
There's a very similar and I think if we're head in the direction, I believe we are similarly debunked technology that was using forensics called I can't remember the name, but it used radioactive isotopes to identify materials in lead and bullets, and the concept was that they all had these distinctly unique signatures per specific bullet. But it turns
out that wasn't the case at all. It'd be like the equivalent of picking up a conk shell and saying this is you know, this is a unique conk shell, but it would actually have a similar signature to like every other conk shell that ever existed. So there were folks that were put into prison for a very long time using this technology, and then it was debunked and those people were subsequently released Wow.
But couldn't get their lives back. Also, so we know that Rife, similar to Samulwis, was certain that the Academy had turned on him, right, and he thought, I am bringing this pioneering cure to the world. I don't want to make a ton of money. It's not about the money, right,
It's about saving lives. There was a San Diego Evening Tribune article that came out about Rife in nineteen thirty eight, and in this he's it's interesting he stopped short of saying I can cure cancer, but he says I can devitalize disease organisms and living tissue with certain exceptions.
So it sounds like pr to me.
Yeah, he's like, I'm not saying this is a panacea for everything. But the problem with his beam ray, similar to the problem with a lot of radionics experiments and a lot of oregone experiments, was that people said it could not be independently replicated and independent researchers. Then throughout
the nineteen fifties I edited Rife. You can see his obituary in the Daily Californian when he passed away at the age of eighty three on August fifth, nineteen seventy one, and according to the Daily Californian, Rife died penniless and convinced that there was there was something rotten afoot in the Academy.
Hey, they published it in the much maligned Disgraced column in the obituaries that day.
Wow, whatever happened to the disgraced column?
And now people just it's not PC anymore. Yeah, Yeah, I'm joking obviously, But it does seem like they don't say things like that in people's obituaries anymore. No, they don't even say like suicide. They don't say anything about cause of death. It's all just the broad strokes of who they're you know, who left they left behind and all that stuff, which is fine. Sure, it means you
got to do your homework a little more. Back in the day, he used to be able to find everything about about it by the dish from their obituary.
Yeah, there was a certain amount of schaden freud and some of those earlier ones.
I think so too better or worse today?
What do you think, oh, bits in general, I'm gonna say better, Okay, Nope, nope, I'm gonna say worse. Nope, I'm gonna say neutral. I would say, well, here's the deal. Almost all obituaries are now written ahead of time unless it's you know, if it's a person of note, there's probably an a bit in one at least one major newspaper. If you are a person of note, that's like trigger yeah exactly, and then some stuff will be added to it.
So I would say it's probably more accurate. Obituaries are probably more accurate for at least people of whatever standing, whatever metric we want to get polished.
Yeah, the final pr statement, how many times do you think they've updated Jimmy Carter's oh bit on file multiple.
Yeah, every time that poor guy takes a fall. There is an editor in chief somewhere who like looks at the USB drive or their dropbox or in my you know, in in my head. What this editor does is they have an alert whenever former President Carter is injured or something.
And then they look down at their at the like the bottom third drawer in there, of course, in their wooden news desk, and they open that bottom drawer just a little bit and then they pull out the they pull out the one sheet for the obituary, and they read through it to see if they need to make any changes. It's probably like a mad libby blank space right where they put what actually happened, and then they just put it on their desk and they wait to
see what happens. And then you know, the next thing, you know, next thing, you know, Jimmy is back building houses with habitat for humanity. So, with a sigh of relief, the editor in chief takes that one sheet, they put it back in that third drawer.
And then they pull out Dick Cheney's and put it on there and they just hope do.
A voodoo incantation.
Right, It's I mean, it's true that it's true that this obituary does not seem partly forgiving. In Rife's case, he did blame the lack of recognition on an actual conspiracy. He said, the AMA, the American Medical Association, the Department of Public Health, and other elements of what he called
organized medicine like that nice dovetail with organized crime. Yeah, he said they had brainwashed and intimidated his colleagues, and so he died seeing himself as a new Semmelweis who is destined to be posthumously acknowledged for his work.
Wow. I you know, I love that we brought it back to civilvice already, because that is that is a feeling. I think, no matter what where the truth lies, with a lot of these people we're going to be talking about, in these cures, like we've said before, nobody believes they're
a villain, right. I think a lot of these people probably believed so deeply in their own version of a cure that there was almost maybe again no matter if it's true or not, there was magical thinking happening, I want to say, in the in their own belief for their cure.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and that's that's a fair point, and that a lot of people might not want to hear, right, especially when you have the sunk costs of spending your entire life, your entire professional life, trying to pursue this in what is a noble way. We can say Royal Rife, at the very least was not some kind of flim flam man. He genuinely believed what he was doing. There there's another example. Well, let's go away from a person for a second and let's look at an actual substance.
There's a thing called latrill, which was widely sold as a cure for cancer until was banned by the FDA. And when something is banned by the FDA, that gives a lot of fuel to the fire for people who believe in suppressed medicine, because then you can say the FDA banned it, not because it didn't work.
Because it was working.
Yeah, And the reason for this ban was that there had been extensive clinical trials in the seventies and throughout the eighties that proved it had zero effect on cancer whatsoever except the delightful side effect of giving cyanide poisoning to folks who attempted this remedy that often proved to be fatal. So good on UFDA for taking poison off the market, for.
Doing your job and way to go. But you can still find it today. That's the thing about the substance. It's not sold under that name. It's sometimes called amygdalen or vitamin B seventeen.
That sounds like a really intense vitamin.
It's a high class, sophisticated vitamin.
Amygdalen is fun.
Yeah, oh yeah, like the amygdala. I don't know why I know a migdala is different from the medulla oblngata, but I always think about that, and I always imagine the professor from water Boy.
We also learn about those pieces of the brain, and usually in the same day in school.
Yeah, I think that's it.
So funny story about vitamin B seventeen. There's no such thing. Oh, there's not a there's not a vitamin B seventeen.
How many b's are there? Sixteen?
No, I'm just kidding.
Twelve. I know there's twelve B twelve Is that the maximum?
What about maximum B complex?
Reach peak B?
We've reached peak B. Finally, let's say there's B one, B two, B three. It's definitely B six, B twelve. I feel like, now we've got the bueller bueler.
Oh, No, funny thing is it's not completely sequential. Well, there's there's eight, right, you've got B one, B two, B three. Then there's no B four.
No, it's too funny. There's only they can't there's.
B six, which is bias N B seven fold eight, and then we got no. B eight. Was as that's too funny too, I think. So I think B four and B eight are just too rife. B nine and then we go all the way to twelve, shoot up to twelve. BE nine is funny. That would be good. Maybe that should have been the one that cured cancer. Right, man renders cancer B nine.
We got here too late, you know what I mean?
At least for the naming conventions. We really could have done some good with that. We could have whiteboarded the heck out of this man. Man.
But the problem with this Brian Dunning writes a fairly good summation of this over at Skeptoid is that this B seventeen case is one of the only cases we can find of a product being banned or suppressed, however you want to describe it. By FDA, by Big Pharma. And that's because the product did have toxic effects on people. So that's a real case of a cancer treatment being pulled from the market. It was not pulled from the market, the story goes, because it was in any way effectively
treating case. Answer, it was just it was more effective at giving people cyanide poisoning.
There you go.
I mean, what was the cyanide content of this of this drug? Twelve percent?
Nice?
Oh oh man. They should have known.
They're always trying to find new uses for cyanide if it's gonna gets a bad rap, you know. Yeah, I think that's the thing.
Cyanide was the original corn. Right, everything has corn in it now and it used to be sid Let's let's go back to ko ko or sorry, yes, yeah, yeah, yes, yep ah. What is that guy's name? Jonathan Davis?
He plays the bagpipes and has his white boy dreads.
I'm actually like working with him a little bit, like, you know, in a weird tertiary way.
Oh cool, are you guys, homies?
No, but he's writing some music for a thing.
Oh nice, man, congratsund like this.
It's weird.
It sounds just like that who does the baselines? Is it still the other I feel like, yeah, love those bases.
He always played his bass like pointing directly. It was almost like a cello, very slippity slappity. So there's another guy who is not a member of Korn. His name is Stanislav Brazenski. That would have been cool if there was a guy in corn named Stanislav and he got Fieldy head Monkey, Jonathan Davis and stanislavs. Brazinski.
Yeah, this guy, this guy has a story. I think I've mentioned this before, but I had a cousin out in Texas who was working with Stanislav Brazinski, like directly with the Foundation in some kind of respect. But she wanted us actually to do an episode on this, but I kind of turned it down because she was very adamant and I don't know her position today, but very adamant that Stanislav did have the cure for cancer.
Yeah. There's a documentary about Brazinski called The Cancer Cover Up, which is available for free on YouTube. This is not an endorsement, but if you want to learn more about the story, I would check that out. With the knowledge that if you couldn't tell from the title, the documentary is very much of the opinion that Brazinski is actually
treating cancer with success. His surfaces in the late nineteen sixties when he proposes that there is a naturally occurring, continuously functioning biochemical system in the body that is different and distinct from the immune system, and that this other system can correct cancer cells by means of special chemicals that reprogram these cells. And this leads him to create what is known as the Brazinski Clinic.
Yeah, cells that in particular, as we have discussed already, the cancer cells, that something has gone haywire within their genetics and they're just reproducing and in the inert in weird ways and yet reproducing. Basically the stuff would stop that turn them back into regular cells. So the clinic itself that it's called the Brazenci Clinic. It was founded in seventy six and it is in Texas. It just kind of goes along with my cousin's story and perhaps
why she got interested in the first place. And it's best known for this controversial therapy known as anti neoplastin that sounds a little weird, anti neo plastin, and it
was developed by Brazinski in the nineteen seventies. Now this is his term anti neoplastin for this group of Now get this urine derived peptides, okay, peptide derivatives as well as mixtures that Brazinski named to use in his cancer treatment, so that those are the substances, the chemicals that would get pumped into you if you were undergoing treatment.
And the clinic has been the focus of some ongoing criticism, mainly because of the way this anti neoplastin therapy is promoted, also because of the cost for people with cancer participating in trials, and then of course there are some other medical professionals who object to the way in which these trials are run. There have also been legal cases brought as a result of the sale of this therapy because it doesn't have or it didn't have approval from the Texas State Board.
There are also a lot of allegations that the numbers are being manipulated about successful cases, survivors, how long, what side effects there could be. There's a lot of I mean, it's what, there's a lot of controversy out there about this, and it's certainly worth your time to look into if you're interested in this kind of thing. Again, we're not trying to make anyone believe in or not believe in any of these things. It's just kind of giving you what we found.
And it's important to note examples like this. This is just one of many examples, but it's important to note this one in particular because it is an ongoing case, you know what I mean. It's not something from the eighteen hundreds or the nineteen thirties.
If you go to the website quackwatch dot org, you can read a whole bunch about Stanislav Brazinski and the treatments and what's supposed to be happening the claims. There have been several published clinical studies that you can actually read parts of in there. We would highly recommend it absolutely.
There is one other example then we have to hit today because many of our fellow listeners wrote into us recently about this case. And this case comes to us through strange avenue. It's the story of a man born Alfredo Darrington Bowman, but perhaps better known today as doctor Seby. I don't know, guys, I don't know why, but my cadence keeps falling into this odd ser Lean thing.
Dude.
I just was about to say, yeah, yet.
What says doctor sebt sippy?
It's always been my dream to be that guy you already are you are?
Uh tell us about We actually had a very interesting uh and it's funny. It was deja vu for me at this point. Matt and I and a ride from Lax to our hotel on this last trip we all took to la we got into the conversation. But while we were there, and so we had this you know, conspiracy open minded critical thing approach to conspiracy theories podcasts, just how we tend to phrase it. And he asked if we had heard of doctor Sebbi, and he seemed
to really stand behind him very much. And I actually, funny, had a similar conversation with another lift driver years ago and he was like preaching the gospel of Sebi to me. Well, I had not heard of the guy at all, but now now I know a little bit about him.
Why do you think we're talking about him right now? Because of that? Because of that ride, buddy, So uh, well, we'll tell us a little bit.
About doctor Selby. Absolutely. This comes from a healthline dot com article that describes doctor Sebbi as a gentleman who claimed that his diet could cure everything from AIDS to sickle cell anemia, to leukemia and lupus. But he was sued in nineteen ninety three and was ordered to stop making these claims.
But that is it's not the first time that he had to go to court with these kinds of things, But that nineteen ninety three to one is important again because he had to stop saying those things.
He absolutely had to stop. He was he was required by law to cease promotion of his diet because it's literally what we would call maybe a fad diet for all intents and purposes, involving things like vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, oils, and herbs, things that he would particularly curate animal products big no no, and SEBBI basically promote well, he was essentially promoting a vegan, yes.
But along with herb like some supplemental or some herbal supplements and some other supplements. I would say that they it's not that they weren't allowed to continue promoting it, you know, or using this diet or selling this kind of thing.
It was just that can't make those claims set in order to promote it. Right, Yes, yes, it's the same kind of stuff that Alex Joneses got in trouble for. I believe with the bone, yeah, the bone broths and all that stuff. I don't think he's allowed to say some of the things that he once said in terms of how those things can you know, prevent you from getting irradiated or whatever you know in the apocalypse.
Here's, in my opinion, one of the reasons why doctor Sibby was so successful. It's because the the methodology about why these supplements and why this diet worked. It feels really simple, and if you're anybody, you can hear someone describe this and say, oh, okay, yeah, I could get that.
I could get behind that. And the whole concept here is that all illness within the human body comes from high levels of acidity, which then results in mucus production and the mucus depending on what part of the body is ill. Let's say you've got a bum elbow or something,
you've got some arthritis in there. Doctor SEBI's belief is that there's mucus build up in there from high acidity, and his diet is going to be alkaline and reduce the acidity and basically get your body back in harmony and then your mucus will go away and your illness.
Does this sound eerily familiar to the medieval quackery of humors, right, and and phlam and mucous spile? It was, It was. It was all related to the balance of these bodily fluids, right, Yeah.
Is that it certainly comes from an older belief system.
It does come from an older belief system, but so does the medieval belief in us, the idea that one could be melancholic.
Right, I have a great book.
On that if you guys. Ever, never mind, never mind, I'm gonna I'm gonna go back and read it. The illustrations great. This also, yeah, okay, I'll bring it in. This is also back when one of the forefronts of European medicine was to have people pee in glass or transparent beakers and then to hold the urine up to the light and guess what was wrong with the person Based on the interpretations of the europe.
Do it like a wine tasting or you switch it around.
There was some sniffing, for sure. Yeah, okay, there was some sniffing.
Disgusting sound because I'm really sorry.
And I don't know how wide spread asparagus was.
You know, just not to de real. But not everyone. Not everyone's pee will smell funny when they eat asparagus.
It's true. It's kind of like the cilantro things.
Or is it that you can't smell it? That's what I'm saying. Not every can smell it. I don't know. Look man science out on that one.
Let us know, folks, Let us know. I know there are several people who listened to this show for years wondering when we were going to finally address the elephant in the room of asparagus and urine. So there you are, folks, that's we finally got around to it.
There's a brain stuff about that. I know. I'm josh there should be Josh. I think it's a Joshua.
I know. There you go. So let's uh, let's just get back to Sebbi really fast, because a lot of the criticism ends up, well, not a lot of the criticism, but there is criticism to be uh to be levied at doctor Sebbe because the claim basically here is that you can you can heal yourself from literally anything from AIDS to cancer to whatever it is if you follow this diet. Consistently for the rest of your life and it will never come back and you'll be.
Good to go.
Let your food be your medicine.
Yes, And it's again it's one of those things where it was links to profit because there was a company. There is a company right now that you can go to the website for. It's a doctor Sebbi's Sell Food. Doctor SEBI's Sell Food. It offers supplements meant to quote expedite the healing process if you're following along with the diet.
And you can check this out for yourself at doctor sebissellfood dot com where he has Nutritional Guy a blog. You know, his whole methodology is his bio and all this stuff. And of course you can purchase these things. And I believe the the basic pack in question here is what like seven hundred and fifty bucks. The advanced package, Oh, the advanced pack, so you can get in for a little you can get in, you know, for maybe a couple hundred.
Yeah.
I think there's a couple on there that are like in the two hundred and three hundred dollars range.
And I'm sure if you did research you could find independent suppliers of the different substances offered in the pack and maybe save money. I'm I haven't done the math on it.
No, Well, actually, the Advance pack is sort of the basic. Then there's an all inclusive pack that's fifteen hundred dollars.
So there's Advance is the lowest tier.
That's the lowest tier of like a whole collection of stuff. Then you can buy individual you know, remedies or whatever. There's something called the Booster Package, which is five hundred and seventy five dollars, and you can buy you know, individual things from everything from bromide plus capsules for thirty bucks to doctor SEBI's blood pressure balance herbal tea sixteen bucks.
Ye.
The point here is that it's not cheap to write to get in on this kind of diet if you're going to follow it and take the supplements provided by the company.
However, many people will swear that the program has healed them one ailment or another. At the time of reporting, as far as we could find, no universally acknowledged scientific studies supported these claims. They still live squarely in the realm of the anecdote, which doesn't make them false. Means that at this point they have not held up to scientific rigor. That doesn't mean that there's no sense to it, because clearly some people believe that it has worked.
No, And you're absolutely right, Ben, But I will say I think it's a little unusual and not unusual at all, maybe on the nose that the labels on all these products literally look like the kind of labels you would have seen on the snake oil stuff sold out of carts back in the olden days. You know, it's like an old font and says doctor Sebbi is sell food, and like it's got a picture of him in the middle, and it's like tooth powder, you know. I mean, it's
like even the names of them. There's like there's something called eye wash and green food.
Yeah. I'm just in my opinion, it's as close as you can get to making it look like medicine or having the mind go to medicine without claiming that it's actually medicine.
Because the FDA will pop you for that. There's also a conspiracy related to doctor sebb that extends beyond his claims to cure cancer, and that is the conspiracy surrounding his passing. Here's how a lot of people found out about doctor Sebbe. It was not through seeking cancer treatments. It was through the interest of the late emce and activist Nipsey Hustle, whom some of our fellow hip hop
fans may be familiar with. Hustle, at the time of his own death, was reportedly working on a documentary about doctor Sebbe, and we found a quote from him where he seems to confirm this. He says, I'm working on doing a documentary on the trial in the nineteen eighties, and Hussell says, when doctor Sebbe went to trial in New York, it was because he published in a newspaper that he had cured aids. He beat that case, says Nipsey, but nobody talks about it. I think the story is
important if you look into the case. The way that the events broke down was that he was charged in eighty seven with practicing medicine without a license, but he was acquitted because jurors claim the state had failed to show he made an actual medical diagnosis.
Yeah, and a claim that he was selling the cure necessarily because it was more about diet right.
And after winning that case in the nineteen eighties, he went on to work with various celebrities who believed in his cause. Now, just I'm sure many of us listening know this, but we have to emphasize it. Just because someone happens to be famous does not in any way make them smarter than you. It doesn't make them dumber than you, It doesn't make them special in particular. It just makes them a person, right.
And they probably have a better credit card than you.
Yeah, they probably have a better credit rating.
Yeah, shows really heavy slate ones.
No, I didn't say credit rating, I say credit card.
Okay, the blacks, Yeah, what the heft. So people like Michael Jackson's and Segal, Eddie Murphy, John Travolta, Lisa Leftie Lopez all swore by doctor Sebi. Lisa Lopez said, I know a man who's been curing aid since nineteen eighty seven. In her vociferous public support of the guy. But shortly afterwards, she was run off the road and died after leaving
Sebbi's Usha healing village in Honduras. And some people will tell you, people who believe there's more to the story, they'll tell you that she was also targeted because she had been spreading his healing message. He's also reputed to have worked with Michael Jackson to treat painkiller addiction, and Sebbi later sued Michael Jackson for almost four hundred grand in unpaid bills and then six hundred something in lost revenue. The case was dismissed in twenty fifteen, and a year later,
doctor Sebi dies. He's eighty two years old. He's in a jail cell in Honduras. He was arrested for carrying stacks and stacks of cash.
Yeah, it was I think thirty something thousand and forty fifty something thousand in another case. And he couldn't he couldn't say where it came from. That was the big issue. He's like, I just have this money. And he ended up in jail and then got pneumonia and passed away.
Or was it pneumonia? Yeah, it's officially pneumonia. But people who believe that the academy or big Pharma was suppressing his work will say that he was murdered by the medical industry to again silence his message.
Here's the deal. If big Pharma was going to take out doctor Sebbi, their best chances were in the eighties, probably or prior to the eighties before it was a big deal, and then they had all the way up to twenty sixteen to get the job done. And if they did in fact murder him, just the amount of time and effort, it just doesn't make sense to me.
I seriously, you're saying they would have known the efficacy of his claims at earlier and then would have acted accordingly, as opposed to waiting until he got famous.
Well, or maybe they couldn't take him out because he was too hot at the time. Whatever. I just I'm trying to gain I'm trying to go down the It doesn't feel like he got killed to me. But that's just my opinion.
So with this, what we see is this, these are enormously contentious issues, and there's another conspiracy or a theory that gets ignored, that gets lost in the wash here or in the churn of different narratives, and it's this. It's something that's well, there are two, I would argue both are a little more plausible, and one is disturbing
and one is incredibly disturbing. The first is this that there's a huge imbalance between private and public funding of cancer research, and that leads critics to say you know, big pharma may actually be slowing down the search for
a cure to cancer. The conspiracy here is not that it exists, but that searching for it is being stymied because these are profit driven entities, and they focus their money on developing patentable single drug treatments and getting someone hooked for life on a pill instead of testing combination therapies or exploring a way to repurpose cheaper generic drugs. And if that's the case, then we're looking at something
pretty depressing. It's less of a clever conspiracy by some shadowy cabal, and it's more like a bunch of people bumbling for short term profits because the long term stuff just won't deliver what the stockholders want. The other one and this one we save to the end because I think it's by far the most frightening. What if there is no conspiracy, What if there just is no cure. What if all these things just don't work. That's a world that people don't want to live in.
And if anything bad, I mean, the thing that points to that as being the most believable option is the fact that these billionaires die of cancer.
And that's hard to walk away from. That's hard to square if any of this stuff is true.
I mean, well, I suppose you could take the Epstein approach and you know, like, oh, he died, he's dead, and he died of suicide, and now he's maybe actually secretly living on an island. Perhaps some of these billionaires made it look like they died of cancer when in fact they did receive the care and are now living off the grid. Who knows, how will we prove it.
I don't know.
I'm just again thought experiment.
Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. So now we wrap up, and of course we don't have an answer, but this is a huge conversation that it is going to be continuing in some form or another, very very likely for the rest of our lives, unless there is some sort of panas Head discovered. Let's ask ourselves the case for or against conspiracy. So people who argue there is a conspiracy are going to say that it's a profit motive. There may be some Malthusian argument and they are saying
that cancer helps cull the population. But cancer takes a while to kill people when it is fatal. Then there's the argument against the conspiracy, which also hinges on profit. Why would a profit motivated entity not instantly jump on the ability to be the exclusive source of a cancer cure that is hand over fist money.
And it also would allow those people that you cured to then take whatever other drugs that you're selling that they might need in their lives.
Right, yeah, exactly. And there's one thing for sure as we end today, several of the alternative cancer cures being sold to sick people across this planet are themselves the result of true conspiracies, their schemes to exploit the desperate hopes of people who are suffering from horrific disease and to take their money without actually helping them at all, and in some cases, harming them. If you or a loved one are currently battling cancer, please do not give
up hope, and please please please be vigilant. If you choose a certain treatment plan, whether tried and true or relatively unorthodox, consult a medical professional, preferably several if you can, before beginning treatment, and make sure that if something may possibly help you, it doesn't also harm you. And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait to hear your thoughts.
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