Zoox CEO Aicha Evans (EXTENDED VERSION)

Can we get in? Of course you can right there. It is okay, so comfortable. That's what we want. We don't want you to think about driving. This is why it's not a car. Hi. Everyone, I'm Emily Chang and welcome to the latest edition of Bloomberg Studio. At one point now today, we're taking you to the Zoo's factory floor in Fremont, California, where they believe they're building the

future of transportation. You're listening to CEO Aisha Evans, one of the top ranking black women in Silicon Valley who grew up in Senegal. After twelve years working her way up to the top ranks at Intel, she took a leap into the startup world to join Zooks with a goal to transform ride hailing as we know it. Just a year later, she sold the company to Amazon for one point two billion dollars. How does Zouks fit into the future of ride hailing and Amazon? Could a Zooks

deliver your Amazon packages one day? Here's Evan's view of the road ahead on this episode of Bloomberg Studio one point out, so great to be here with you. Thank you for coming and thank you for having me. You came to Zooks as CEO and over from Intel, and just a year later you sold it to Amazon. How did that happen so quickly? It was a journey. Um. It takes a lot of capital to um takes this endeavor all the way. It's a it's a worthy one.

And when we looked at the ecosystem, when we looked at everything that was going around, we had to decide whether to stay private or whether to get a long term oriented partner like some of our fellow travelers. And then the pandemic hit. That brought a lot of clarity, shall we say, And so the opportunity presented itself and we went for it. Wise, Amazon the right fit. First of all, they are a great company. Uh. They have

created both octogonal and adjacent multibillion dollar businesses. They are long term oriented and very purpose driven, so that matched our ambitions. They've never owned a car company though. Yeah, but we're not a car company exactly. We're a right hailing company. Talk to me a little bit about how you got to Silicon Valley. Your story is not the story of a typical tex EO like Jeff Bezos or Eddie Jassy. Tell us about your upbringing. I was born

in Senegal, West Africa. Hum. My parents, I thanked them to this day. UH sort of made school um an implicit expectation. It was an up for discussion. Very early on. I showed an aptitude and interest uh in math, physics, not so much in biology and in building things. Uh. And so they cultivated that. And then I bounced back between Paris and UH and Senegal, learned a lot about what technology does to people's lives, uh, and what it makes possible. I literally had a contrast every few months.

And so computers were coming online, not the Internet, but what the Internet was going to make possible was also coming online. The US was to the place to be to study that, and so I came to the US and I went to school and then very boringly, I met an American boy who is my husband, and really that's how I ended up staying. So you go to computer Uh then basically, UM got jobs in the industry

and eventually ended up at Intel in Importlands. Through that started interfacing with Silicon Valley, and then zooks came along. So I don't really think of myself. I just happened the journey led me here. I heard a story about you hackake a phone in order to talk to your friends long distance. Did that really happen? Oh? Yeah, I did. Um, Well, when you're in France, you want to I I always had a double life a little bit in terms of family friends in different ecosystems. I still do to this day.

And so back then it was landlines. It was expensive and my dad is in was intellcommunication, so if he was not confused, so we had a rotary phone, I'm dating myself and he locked it. But obviously I figured out how to still make the phone calls. Who were role models back then. I mean, it's so hard for young people, especially young girls, to see themselves in the tech industry. Um. Mary Curry was and still is a role model. Um. In France, you study philosophy and a

lot of the philosophers are also mathematicians. Uh so they were a role model, and they also forced you to think, So those who are my main role models? At least at the time. So after you, you know, meet this American boy, you decide to stay. You worked your way up to chief strategy officer at Intel, and it was a difficult time for Intel. Intel was kind of losing its way. What was it like working there at that time?

First of all, Um, I grew up there. I entered as a sort of second third line manager and moved up the ranks. I'll always be grateful for everything that I've learned there. Um. Yes, it was a difficult time in the sense that anytime you're successful, you earned the opportunity to talk about what's the next phase of the journey, and I was in the middle of that. But it was also fun. I learned a lot. Um, I made great funds and I'm rooting for today and I'm proud

of them and the journey there on. So what do you think about Pat Gelsingers? Very ambitious, very grand, very expensive, plan to turn Intel into a foundry to bring chip manufacturing back to the United States at a heavy cost. Is it going to pay off? I don't know. I hope so I can't really. I mean, I don't work there anymore, so I don't know the details of it. What I can tell you is that semiconductors are in everything in our lives, from small to big, from consumer

to enterprise. And it's almost like, um, I don't know electricity in some ways, and so I'm rooting for them. What was it like going from an established brand name, storied tech company like Intel to a startup like Zooks. I assume there are major differences in culture and execution there. It was quite an awakening. Uh So I didn't tell I was a little bit known as uh, not a rebel, but um somebody who questioned things and who maybe did the normal Oh my gosh, you know was too slow?

Is this or that or the other? An agitator of source? An agitator, yes, a change agents, I think is the elegant way of putting it. And so all right, when I arrived at Zuits, yes, it was fast, Uh it was. We were making decisions quickly, but from an infrastructure standpoint. We I was like, WHOA, maybe there's a reason for infrastructure and so, but I embrace the journey and said, okay, we have to build one when you're doing what we're doing. Uh,

it's not just about the technology. You have to think about the steps to get into market. You also have to think about building the company so that it's ready when you scale. If you wait until you need to scale to actually build the infrastructure, bad things happen. I also want to ask you a question about the founding store. You know, one of the founders no longer works here.

One of the founder still works here and is the CTO, And I'm curious how important it is in your view to have a founder remaining at a company and what your approach is to that as a CEO who came in from the outside. Yes, Um, Jesse Levinson, Uh, he's our CTEO and co founder. I think it's important to have a founder. I'm not confused. I wasn't here at the beginning, and especially the company Zooks has been extremely

consistent since inception. When we first said we're doing a ground up vahicule, people said the kind and not so Now people are coming around to that point of view because it does make some some problems easier on the AI side, plus the customer experience. Um, we worked together. I probably talked to Jesse outside of my kids and husband. I talked to Jessie more than I talked to anybody. Uh. He's probably graduated to be one of the person who

knows me the most and the best. We partner. Uh, that doesn't mean we agree on everything, but we talked about it. We discussed. We went through something pretty difficult between the pandemic make and deciding, um what to do from a capital standpoint, and so I think that it's important to have a founder, but even more importantly, there has to be a really strong partnership and relationship. And if you can find that, then it's the best of

both world because it's fully complimentary. How much has the vision changed from you know, the initial founders to today and you know, how do you how does that founder d n A then survive? The vision hasn't changed a bit. And both Jesse and I give actually uh credit to Tim who was the other co founder, because this was his vision. Ah, he's a designer. He came up with this concept and so we we give credit. And we've

been consistent. We haven't literally deviated left or right. We've argued about timelines, we've argued maybe about the idea, the industrial design or things like that. The division absolutely consistent. I'm gonna tell you something. Every we have these company all hands every often, so often we actually play the two thousand and fourteen pitch. It's identical, identical. That's amazing. Yes,

it's all about execution and getting there. What's it like being a leading black female executive in such a white male industry. It depends. I don't wake up in the morning thinking I'm that. I wake up in the morning thinking I'm Asha. I've got stuff to do, meetings, decisions to make, kids to take care of, making sure denim is ready. Obviously in the moment, sometimes I think about

it because you look around. But I try and turn it into an opportunity because and that's just how I have one on ones with myself, and how you think about it and how you show up it's important. So I try and tell myself that means that I'm bringing a perspective that nobody else has, and that's additive. And then I try and also figure out a way to have what I call an inclusive environment where I see people's point of view and they see mine, and I try not to get angry when it manifests itself in

annoying ways. What are the obstacles that you've overcome to get here? Um? I think that often people assume, both from a gender and UH sort of ethnicity standpoint, that it's not normal to be here, and therefore maybe you've got a discount, when it's often the opposite. You have to try much harder than than others. I've had to work on sort of how I receive information when or how I really ideal with behaviors that are not acceptable, and sort of learn when you take the high road.

I've had to find my voice and not be afraid of it and use it. So a lot of things like that. As you say you grew up at Intel, you grew up in this industry. Are you pleased with the change you've seen or has it not changed fast enough? I can't be pleased. I mean, I'm pleased that is change, but absolutely not. We have to do a lot more as an industry. Why isn't it changing faster? Why don't we see more people like you in positions of power. Well,

I think that's a complicated answer. I think it starts very early on. I think it starts. I've been public about Lego robotics. That was eye opening for me. I have a son who participates in Lego robotics, and we had some observations and kids are what seven eight and

you already see differences. I think also from a social standpoint, around middle school, when there's a transition for girls, maybe having a support system to stay in math, demystifying it, teaching it differently, and then as people come up the ranks, making sure, especially for women, making sure that we have a support system around them so they can traverse through some of the some of the phases like for example, marriage and childbirth and so on. You're building a ride

hailing service, not a car. Why is it important to have a woman in the room, people of different races in the room, Because we are about selling a ride to a customer, and the customers they look like many different people. I'll give you a story. We were discussing pick up and drop off, and um, I'm the only woman in the room. Yes, I'm always in jeans and what have you. But occasionally I dressed up and have

high heels on. We're wearing high heels today, yep. I made a comment when you arrived, right, and so I was like, Okay, we have to think about it from that standpoint, because if we're giving right to customers in San Francisco, for example, on a Friday evening, on a Saturday evening, maybe some folks have heels on, and maybe we need to think about the pick up rages because expecting them to go uphills in you know, high heels probably not a good idea. That's why it matters, you know,

from a product perspective. Right, let's talk about the competition. What is Zoox's edge over GM's crew those Googles way now, and if you could level with us, what's their edge over zooks um. First of all, I look at them a little bit like fellow travelers. Yes, we're competitors because we're in the same space and we're going after some of the same things. But this is a big industry.

We are not a car company. We are transportation company and humans since inception whenever, that was all about transportation and always going somewhere to either have access to information, access to more to a better livelihood or so on. So it's a huge market. We do not expect one company. It's not going to be a winner take on. So we're fellow travelers in some ways. Second, it's a safety critical product and therefore I think it's important to lay

that groundwork. Now. Having said that, I would say one of the big differences is that we are going straight to what we think is the ideal product to provide rights to customers. We are not here to enhance your driving experience. We don't even want you to think about driving. So the customer experience is built in such a way that you're here to be transported. You have an app

which you already know how to do today. You have an app where you say I want to go from point A to point B, especially in dense urban environments think downtown San Francisco, and we show up and we pick you up. Sliding doors, you step in a little bit London cab inspired communal seating. You couldn't write alone or with friends or basically with other people. You buckle up, you push, start, do whatever you want to do, Relax, meditate beyond your device. What about Tesla, which is right

down the street. Our Tesla and Elon must competition, fellow travelers. I think we're in the same general industry. Um. First of all, we have a lot of respect for for Tesla and what they've made possible, both intrinsically meaning the company, but also for the industry. This is Silicon Valley, were you know, paid tribute to disruptors. Having said that, we're not exactly in the same business. We don't sell a car to people. We sell a right to people. Our

customers are not drivers. There are writers, and therefore we use the same types of technologies, but they are in the car selling business. So how does Zookes fit into the future of Amazon? Well, that story is yet to be written. First of all, we are we hope to deliver on the promise of a new segment and uh sort of a big business uh and be one of those in the tradition of of Amazon. And then what

happens then? Who knows that? We know there's a world of possibilities, but I tell everybody we first have to earn it right before we talk about sort of synergies and possibilities and opportunities together. Zero times anything is still zero and it will be for a long time. So We're focusing on building our business, getting market and then there's a myriad of possibilities of things we could do together.

Zoo is going to be dropping off my boxes. Is that what I should expect potentially, if that's the right thing to do and if it makes sense to do so. But first we're going to make sure to take you everywhere you need to go without having to worry about parking, having a car and so on. What's it like having Amazon as your boss? It's been good. I get that question a lot, by the way, It's been really good. It's been about a year and I don't know, nine

ten months. So well, you know, Amazon is it's often know more as an overlord, especially when it comes to investments. You know that they're very involved. Is that the case? Um, we're an independent subsidiary of of Amazon, So yes, they are involved, but I don't know, No, they are not an overlord or anything like that. We agree on what's going to happen, why it's going to happen, and then

we basically we've we've run pretty independently. They're very available though if we have a question or if they have a question. There as communication going on, but we know, we don't feel like swamp or anything like that. How often did you talk to Jeff Bezos or do you talk to Andy Jassy or maybe it's Dave limp Um. I don't talk to them that often. I mean we have a monthly business review or quality business review or or just but no, this is that I know a

lot of people ask me that question to know. It's not like I'm besties with them and we're on the phone and wrapping and channing. Now, so well, you must know what their expectations are of you? What what what are their expectations of you? What is Amazon expecting of zoos execute get to market scale? And do you have the funding to do that? Gm? Google very well funded competitors or fellow travelers. As you say, are you getting what you need? Yes? More than what I need. I'm

funding is not something I even worry about. So what's it like to operate in that environment where money is not an issue? Well, I mean you have to be careful, right because you also don't want to be a drunken sailor and be like, oh now I have you still have to be uh, very disciplined. You have to manage the phases of the business. We don't sit here and talk about Amazon a lot, or talk about even fellow travelers a lot. We're like, Okay, how do we execute?

How do we make our mouthstones? How do we get to market where things organized properly? How do we hire? How do we retain and so on and so forth? How do we stay mission driven? The public seems to have lost interest in waiting around for self driving cars. I wrote in Google self Driving Car in twenty eleven, and I'm still waiting to be able to buy or just ride a self driving car on demand. Why is it taking so long? I think in self driving First of all, the opportunity is so clear. Um the so

the beach is so broad. We forgot that big things do start small. One second, it's a hard problem to solve. We talk a lot about safety, uh, and we talked talk a lot about human error when it comes to driving, But we also forget that collectively, at least in the United States of America, humans collectively drive a hundred million miles before having a fatality. That's a lot of mouths. So humans are also pretty good. And the thing humans are good at, which is hand I call it exception handling.

We all know how to drive. If we're all fully autonomous, would be deployed already. But we're driving amongst human and you have to deal with so many little scenarios. There are so many things that you've been learning about driving since births and codifying that using AI sensors and computers is turning out to be a lot harder. Last, but not least, it's a safety critical system. None of us should deploy until unless we have closed loop evidence that we're safe. So what is the AI need to learn

how to do at this point? What are the challenges left to solve? It needs to know how to deal with unexpected things as they as they happen. And is that possible that it can? Can? I learned that, of course it's possible. I mean I'm one of I'm an optimist when it comes to technology. I saught it in wireless. So you have to think from switchboards all the way to today. Quite a journey. Um. I'm fascinated by flying airplanes.

The right brothers, if they were trying to solve what is being sold in aviation today, they wouldn't have tried. We we just let let it marinate, let it take its time. The algorithms will get better. Uh, compute gets better all the time, censors get better all the time. It will happen. What about security challenges? We've reported on how Tesla's have been hacked. What can happen when AI

gets behind the wheel. So you have to design security in your into your product from the beginning, and for us, we look at all the scenarios of what could happen from a security standpoint. We have a road map around that we developed around that. Now, these these robots or these robot taxes are also recording all the time, so they sort of know what's happening inside of them and around them, So that gives us a little bit of a of an edge. And then you look at access.

But this is something you just have to pay attention to understand what's going on in that world and make sure that you design against it. How many rights have you taken? A lot our employees, Actually it's not fair, right, I take a lot of rights both in our L three testing fleet as well as in the ground up ROBOTAXI where I was really it was around Christmas time, you know, the pandemic. It's been hard and we're finally

able to offer some of our employees ride. Over two hundred people have taken rides, and now it's going to be part of just you know, the operation to offer rides on a continuous basis and that's really cool. Yes, oh no, not yet, no no no. So on the L three fleet around San Francisco within our GEO fans and for the ground a robot taxi around here as well as UM we have a private campus we operate on. So in so when you take a ride, what's your

report like generally afterwards? Well, okay, so two different things on the test fleet because and this is a big difference between us and our fellow travelers. I mean our L three fleet, the Toyota Highlanders that are outfitted with the same center, architecture, placement and compute. They are purely engineering test vehicles. So when I it's called drive review. When I take a ride, it is with understanding what

progress we're making, what issues were still having. I'm fascinated by the scenarios we can't handle, how fast was teleopts able to step in and so on and so forth. So then I have a long report and the app and this and that. When I'm in the robot taxi, it's more like I'm excited. I'm usually giggly. Uh. And then after five minutes on board and I'm on my device,

which is what you want. Yeah, and you know are you After you take a ride, you send a note back to your team and say, all right, you need to work on a few things or you know, good job of this, good job at that. Oh the ways. But usually after drive review, there's a team that gets a summary and dispatches. Um. And then when it comes to the robot taxi often we talk about it at weekly all hands, How is it navigating supply chain challenges? Has the chip crisis impacted you? Yes, it has. It's

impacted everybody. Um. Look, first of all, some things are just more expensive than they should be. Uh. Second, but you accept that it's the same for everybody. You have to get a lot more crisp around your needs because lead times are longer. And uh, that's really when it pays off to have had a good relationship with your suppliers and treated them as partners so you can talk about your problem statement and arrived to solutions. But it hasn't like slowed us down. It's just been an extra

vector to manage. Do you see an end in sight for the chip crisis? There will be, and we will get back to reason and frequency, but it's going to take a while. It's also coming at a at an incredible demand time, so we'll figure it out now. Some of your competitors have been very loud, making a lot of noise about testing on public roads, commercial opportunities. Zoos has been generally a little bit more quiet. Why is that we tend to be on the quiet side? Um,

we everybody knows what we're up to. I hope. If not, I'm happy to talk about that. You're talking to us about it now, there you go. We feel that putting points on the boards is really where it's at. One of the advantages of not having to fundraise means that demos are not that important to us. We don't feel that kind of pressure. We have a roadmap to execute two and let's just get to public roads and we think we're with with a ground up built for riders,

robot taxi and that's what we're focusing on. In between, when we have important things to say, we'll say that, but we don't feel like engaging in you know, PR scuffles. Uber and lifts seemed like they would be obvious partners. Could we talked to them? We in this industry, there are no secrets, and we're all friends. We all talked to each other at some level on another, So, yes, we all have talked to each other. Look, I don't know,

it depends maybe maybe not. Uh. I do know that we've done a lot of hard work to get to the promised land. One thing that is important is the customer channel um and having access to that. However, you never say never, but our goal right now is to go all the way. Who do you imagine would be your first customers? Well, first of all, Las Vegas. We've been public that that's our our first lounge. A lot of people on the road there too that Yes, it's

a yeah, but it's it's a good driving environment. It's I call it a sort of affectionately one street dance urban environment. How's that with a lot of demands? Uh? And then we really think that in starting at least at the beginning, big cities that have a very dense, uh urban sort of landscape where people are going to work, people are going to museums, people are going to restaurants. They don't want to worry about parking. We think that

will be the first customer. So commercialization is on the horizon in Las Vegas and also San Francisco that would be next. Um, how do you stay motivated on that road to commercialization given that there are still, as you say, these hard problems to solve because every day literally either something happens in terms of progress, and it's really important to not just look at the ultimate success. But I call it like kind of along the way, the little celebration.

I mean even when I do drive review, yes, I have a long list of you know, what about this, what about that? But the vehicle will do something new or something awesome and you're like, oh my gosh, it does something wonderful and I'm like, you go awesome. So there are so many things that happen on a daily basis, weekly basis that you see advancement. I I talk it's like climbing, right, It's like you get to a certain element or certain place, you appreciate the journey, you turn around,

you look down, you see what you've done. Then you're like, all right, let's go for the next week. So as you put points on the board, what does I sha evans see as the future of zook. Do you see a global mobility giant or do you see something more modest? I see, I want and I hope to lay the foundation for a global mobility giant. We talked about human being need transportation everywhere. It opens up access to economic mobility, It opens up access to knowledge, it opens up access

to inclusion. Uh, not to mention safety, the environment and frankly humans, which is too valuable to spend. Also, four hundred billion hours worldwide driving and as more people come up the ladder, that means we need more housing, We need so many different things, and we think that this is at the center of that puzzle. So that is the goal, all right, So we're gonna do this is a little rapid fire section now. Um so just quick answers.

Um what a zooks stand for? The word zoos is basically a marine um uh sort of species that is solar powered and self moving in the ocean. Interesting. Best piece of advice for your twenties, take a shell pill It'll be okay. What about your forties. Enjoy the journey you've made it. Um. I hear you're under restaurant at some point? Is that true? I confuse the love of cooking and running a restaurant. What's your favorite thing to cook?

Chebujan which is a Senegalese dish. Biggest guilty pleasure? Trashy books? What bos not telling? Um? Speaking of fellow travelers, what's your favorite travel destination? Hawaii? Me too? Which island Hawaii? I'm from Hawaii? Kauai all the way? Or sure? Last TV show you binged? I'm in the middle of it. A bridgeton same so good. What's your view on work life integration. I don't use the word balance, neither do I work life choices, setting expectations on all sides. Um,

how do your kids fit into your life? They are everything? They are the beginning and the end. Our driver list future is always right around the corner or ten years away. Give us a realistic timeline. When can we ride in a zooks? If you're life's Vegas, much sooner than you think, But then it will be an evolution year by year. I think a better way to answer the question is a lot of people ask me, when can I tell my kids they can't have a they shouldn't get a

driver's license. And I think it's going to be probably my kids kids. Really, that's a little farther off than I would. I thought, Well, let's scale and ubiquitous. Remember we're very conservative study Eddie or realistic, that's what I think. Thank you for saying it. It's a few decades at scale when anybody can be in one. Obviously, if you're in Las Vegas, if you're in San Francisco or Frankly, fellow travel, if you're in Arizona right now, that's a

different story. But that's the beginning small things to become big things. So when I answer that question, I think about big things, meaning the majority of people can speaking of another big thing. Arguments for and against going public against definitely focus. Um, the quarterly pressure is something I understand and know, and this is a long term journey, so focus is important for it seems to be everybody's

dream in this valley, Is it yours? My dream is to to get this uh, this robot taxi out there and to see it delivered the promise that I know it well. So paint the bigger picture picture of the future of transportation, whether it's zooks or self driving cars or self flying taxis or hyper loops. Do you see this Jetson's like vision in the future or is it something different? Oh? I think it's coming and it's necessary

because I'm an optimist again. I want more people participating in the economy at the sweet spots of the economy. And when you look at that and you look at the numbers, Uh, we just need to make transportation a service as opposed to anything else. What does success look like for zooks this year? We have a big milestone that we need to accomplish on our way arms like within arms reach of putting it on a public road.

And there's a lot of work to happen, and so making that happen and doing it in a way that the team is not the team is not exhausted, that's success for me. Is zooks get going to be on public quotes this year? I don't know. We'll have to see. What about ten years? What a success look like for zoos in ten years several cities and there, I say, Hey, I'm going to zooks my way over there? What about

for you? What a success for Asia? I think, first, my kids are productive adults, whatever that means for them. Our kinds and good humans are responsible people. That's step one and choose wisely with whom they pair up with, and then second built a foundation here that when it comes to scale, it will be a rapid fire and automatic. So what do you imagine the zoo's presentation will be in would be the same, It will be well, there will be a reminiscing part about people moving that will

be the same. But I'm realistic. I mean, well we'll probably do other things too, and so there will be maybe a second or third line of business. Oh what could those be? I don't know yet. All right, we will have to catch up in twelve years. That sounds like a plan. Misha Evans, thank you so much for joining us. Great to have you my pleasure. I appreciate you coming over. Hopefully we can we can zooks to our next interview. And that's it for this edition of

Bloomberg Studio. At one point out thanks for joining us. This episode is produced by Lauren Ellis, edited by Brian Carter Gainer, and executive produced and hosted by Yours truly Emily Jay. We'll see you next time.