EP 252 Redefining Retirement: Beyond Financial Planning with Wendy Leggett

Music. And welcome to another episode of Stuck in My Mind podcast. I am your host, W-I-Z-E.

Are you ready to retire but unsure how to make the most out of your life beyond work? Well, my next guest has redefined what it means to prepare for retirement by focusing on more than just financial security. Welcome to the show, Wendy Leggett. Hello. Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you, Vice. Oh, the pleasure's all mine. I'm excited. So let's just jump right into this. What inspired you to transition from a successful sales leadership career to becoming a retirement coach?

Yeah, there's a lot to it. So I'll try to be succinct. And you can interrupt me anytime if I want to go on. But I really want to mention for your listeners that aren't anywhere close to retirement, that I'm hoping that our conversation, and I'm believing it as well, that any age or life stage can really benefit from our conversation.

And even if you're not, you listener aren't looking at something, you know, up close regarding retirement, maybe people in your world are, maybe you have parents, maybe you have their loved ones or friends, so that it can heighten your awareness. And just this recognition that there are things that we need to look at beyond the financials, which tends to be the narrative that we hear out there so often.

So I just wanted to mention that so that people continue to see that, you know, I think that there's going to be some takeaways here. Does that sound good? Sounds good. That sounds real good. All right. So, so far as my journey, I had been in sales and then, you know, moved up the ladder for a number of years from Fortune 50 companies to franchise to fashion. I love the sales process. I love the connecting with customers. I loved setting goals and achieving and moving, you know, beyond them.

And I loved, as I moved up that career ladder, having people that were on my team and that I was able to mentor and coach and elevate their capabilities and their opportunities. The reason that I ended up shifting careers was because in my last position, I was working for a couple that I just loved.

I was a director of a number of franchises and just their whole approach to the customer base, their energy and their enthusiasm, their willingness to experiment and try things really aligned with everything that kind of lights me up. And we did a phenomenal job. And. That was probably the kiss of death because we were so successful that it put them in a great position to sell the companies.

And that's what they did. And they brought in or they sold to a new owner that had a very, very different philosophy. And for you, WISE, and probably your listeners, too, if we've ever been in those situations like I was, where all of a sudden your values are really getting trampled on and your philosophy and what you really hold to be important is just not being upheld. You get to that kind of push-pull, that tension.

And I was in that place. And I think most of us are problem solvers or fixers. And then I can fix that. I can make it work. So I tried every which way. But I was facing my customers who were being let down and not being served the way that they were used to. I was not feeling good about what I was asking of my employees.

And it just was no longer representative of my best self. So I was at that crossroads where do I continue to do this because it was really feeling soul-sucking or do I make a shift? And I stayed there probably too long and got to that pain point, you know, where we finally just know, gosh, I have to make a change. And so at that point, I did some research and I did some soul-searching. And through my journey and my exploration, I came upon coaching,

which was new in my universe. You know, I'd always worked with consultants, but they weren't really ever called coaches. And so as I researched it and thought, wow, I can go back to school and I can bring my best self forward now, all of the things that I believe in, but I'm now that service rather than promoting someone else's service. So I did go back to school, which was a huge change for me because I hadn't been in school for a long time. And that was challenging and energizing.

And then the reason that I ended up.

Focusing on retirement after becoming a certified professional life coach was that I was seeing a lot of my peers and a lot of my clients go through that transition and really not having it be everything that they thought it would be. And seeing that people were, in many cases, becoming diminished or becoming resigned or just not really able to live into what they had envisioned and worked so hard to achieve.

And so I did some further research and discovered there's a whole world around retirement life coaching. I joined an association. I got two more credentials around it so that I was able to really help people with those pathways to see that, you know, in life we have so many templates when we make transitions. Let's say we're going from high school to college or going from single down to having a significant other or having children or we're buying a home.

All of those really big transitions, we generally have a template for it. We know that if we're going to go to college, for example, what we need to accomplish in the years leading up to it. And we know that we're going to want to research campuses. And, well, yes, we have to have our finances in order, but what's of interest to us, et cetera, et cetera. But with retirement beyond the financials, there isn't much of a roadmap for us.

And yet it's just an extremely exciting, unique, and new frontier. So I feel very fortunate and gratified and also excited to be able to support people in that one. So how did your experience in corporate life influence the way you approach retirement coaching?

How I experience corporate life so far as being able to connect with people, understanding that there are all different kinds of personality types and that people have different drivers or interests or that win-win kind of concept was always really important to me in the overarching. Over-delivering, under-promising. All of those things for me in corporate life were first and foremost for me.

At the same time, I did navigate at different junctures in my career where I really had to fight to assert myself or really be able to use my voice because there were a variety of things, especially when I was in that Fortune 50 company, that I didn't have as much maybe autonomy me or agency as I felt was needed to be able to really walk my path, if that makes sense. So those were some of my experiences in corporate.

And I have to say that I feel so fortunate also to have moved out of corporate and into this realm of coaching because I come from a place of being like having a high achiever. A hyper achiever, hyper rational approach to things. I really love making the numbers, and I love making progress, and I love to get the best out of myself.

And by entering this world of coaching, and especially what I then moved into a credential around what's called positive intelligence, which is kind of a mental fitness and recognizing that those saboteurs, that hyper-rational or hyper-achiever saboteur, can really hijack our happiness and how to be able to quiet that saboteur and shift into what I knew was who I really am, which is an empathetic person and a person that's curious and open to conversation

and learning and finding that mutually agreeable place with people. So that's a long way to answer that question.

What are some common misconceptions people have about retirement? Well, I think one of the biggest ones is that if you have your financial house in order, that everything else will fall into place because that idea that. That that's really all that's necessary. And then, and then, you know, what do you need to focus on? Because it's leisure, travel, endless weekends. But the reality is that 50% of people do not feel socially or mentally prepared for retirement, pre-retirement.

And once they're in retirement, one out of three struggle. And so we know then that there is so much more that we need to focus on and uncover and discover about that retirement experience. So that's one of the things. And I think speaking about this endless weekends and leisure and travel, I think another misconception is that we're either on one end of the spectrum or the other.

We have rose colored glasses that say, wow, this is going to be the best time of my life, the golden years, or on the other end of the spectrum, you know, loss and aging and one foot into the grave. And so what I really like to bring to my clients is this idea. And what I want to share is instead of being so idealistic or so pessimistic, so on one end or the other, let's bring it to the middle and have realistic optimism.

Let's really blend then our hopes with our reality, because we know that then when we have hopes and we put insights and awareness and action behind it, we can make those hopes become real. Well, why do you believe retirement planning should go beyond just financial considerations?

You know, we bring our whole selves into retirement. And so I know you really share a lot of insights with your audience around, you know, mindset. And if you have that kind of perspective or mindset that we are in this downward spiral or we are now, you know, at the in our later years and that the aging piece becomes heavy for us or that we can't do certain things because of our age, that can really derail that next chapter. So that's one area is around perspective and mindset.

Another is around purpose. When we're in work, our purpose is kind of built into it, at least from a career standpoint. We have the expectations in front of us. We have the achievements. We know what we're doing. We've got some structure there. We feel that we're making a difference in some way, shape, or form. When we move into retirement, we can lose that sense of purpose. And I think that looms really large for people because I think this idea of finding purpose is like the holy grail.

And people think, wow, if I don't find purpose, then I'm going to quote unquote fail at retirement.

And so that's something that I really work with clients on and want to raise up is that purpose rather than a static state and having one purpose instead let's shift our thoughts to being purposeful making it a verb making it an action and hopefully every day we can feel purposeful we feel like I matter in the world that there's something that I'm getting up for in the day and that I'm going to do that makes my world or those that I

love's world or the community or the world at large, a better place. I'm sorry. And that's where a lot of people in retirement struggle with is the fact that now that they're no longer working, they don't feel purposeful. They don't feel like they're worth anything anymore because they're not doing what they were doing. They're not doing their career or whatever. And a lot of them struggle with that. A lot of them struggle with the fact that they lose a lot of self-worth.

Yes. Yeah. You're so right about that. And there's a saying, if you are what you do, who are you when you don't? And that can really ring true for people if their work, and it's totally normal, but if their work is so interwoven with their lives. And so when they leave their work behind, they can leave pieces of themselves behind.

So that's an area that I really focus on with clients. And we really start with, you know, how do you define retirement? Because I think oftentimes people kind of go on autopilot and say, well, when I hit a certain age, I should retire. And we know that that word should is an external pressure. It's not one that's coming from within. And so really shifting that perspective and recognizing that we're at agency. I like to call it that we're the CEO of ourselves, you know,

that we're leading ourselves. And so what is it then that we want to look at to bring with us into retirement and what do we want to leave behind? But making the decision first and foremost, what does retirement mean to me? And do I really, is this going to fulfill something for me? Or is my work continuing to be gratifying so that it's not age related,

it's really that purpose related. I had one client that came to me a couple of years before she was going to retire, and we started working through things together. And it became very apparent that she didn't really want to retire. She loved her job. They loved her. She loved the income. She had great balance in her life. But her family members were putting a lot of pressure on her to retire because many of them had retired at 62.

And she was, you know, a couple of years out. And so when we really spoke to it and she started to see, wow, I'm not using my voice. I'm not asserting what's important to me. I'm kind of defaulting and abdicating my opportunities. She was able to see that it wasn't the right time for her. And so I don't. Advocate to retire at any certain age, but I do advocate that if you choose to, let's do it mindfully, let's do it based on our criteria, and then let's really fully step into it.

And so that kind of addresses that piece around purpose and then the identity piece as well, is that, you know, this idea of leaving ourselves behind, then what is it that we know about ourselves that's never changed. You know, we change roles. Those are all external. But what do we know about ourselves to be true that maybe got buried because we are so very busy with work?

But now we have this opportunity to do some soul searching and some reflection and give ourselves space and grace and say, what does feel right to me? What is something that I had to leave in the wings that I want to now bring to the forefront because I have this opportunity? So really looking at that as well.

So I'm touching upon several items, but there are a number that are really pivotal and foundational as we step away from just the financial focus and really delve into what we want to look at a little closer.

Yeah. So what does it mean to bring your whole self into retirement? And why is it so important? Well, because we are a whole self. So the meaning of it is like looking at our emotional, our mental, our social well-being, our physical well-being, and our spiritual or feelings around purpose. That constitutes that whole self. And when we leave some of those pieces again in the wings, then we can enter into retirement with like a busyness factor that a lot of people do.

I had one client that was so busy, her dance card was always full, that when we started working together, she was very, just very disappointed about retirement. She said, gosh, if I was going to quote unquote work this hard, I might as well be back at work and getting a paycheck.

So we really were able to deconstruct well how was she spending her time and she that busyness factor that she had shifted from work into retirement with her was at the forefront and and yet it wasn't fulfilling to her it started to feel like groundhog's day and so we were able to really look at what was what was the impetus for her to even be involved in some of those activities And I think she came to the realization,

well, I know she did, working with her, is that she felt that in order for her to be relevant and for her to be able to say to people this is what she was doing in retirement, that she had to have this really full dance card. And so we were able to really dispel that and see where she wanted to boost her confidence or boost her self-compassion and what things she could let go of. And so I think that that was a really important factor as well.

Yeah. So there's just so very many piece parts when you're saying with the whole self. Also just the mental well-being. You know, what is our perspective? And again, I know that's an important topic for a lot of your listeners. If our perspective is that we're aging and that we're getting old and that we can't do certain things any longer, that will be our reality.

Studies show at any age, and this happens even with people in their 30s, if they have an anti-aging viewpoint, that that shortens our life by 7.5 years. And there's research around that. So our minds can play such an important role. And our minds are the things that we can get in front of, that we can really look at, you know, what thoughts are we bringing in? Because those thoughts are going to then come out in our emotions, in our behavior, in our beliefs, in our actions.

And so it's important, what are we taking in? What are we holding on to that maybe doesn't serve us?

So how can a pro-AV mindset said positively impact someone's retirement experience? Well, as I shared, I have a credential in positive intelligence, so I'll speak to that specifically and then I'll broaden it. The concept behind positive intelligence is taking all of the factors in emotional intelligence, which is an incredible approach and an inroad for us to really be more in tune with our own emotions and how we impact others and how others are showing up in the world in our view as well.

But it boils it down then to three very simple factors because the founder of it, Shirzad Shamim, felt as though if we get too confusing, if there's things that are complex, we can't digest them and we can't act upon them. So he brought it down to what he saw was the root cause. And he. Spoke to them these three areas, saboteurs, self-command, and sage.

So the saboteurs, as I mentioned for myself, a hyper-achiever saboteur, a hyper-rational saboteur, but there can be a pleaser saboteur that can come up in retirement that says to us, oh, I need to say yes to everything. Or there can be an avoider saboteur that says, you know, I need to accept what everyone else is saying, I don't want to get into any friction points here. Or a victim saboteur, I'm getting old and so I can't do those things any longer.

And then the second part of it is this idea of self-command. And I know in a lot of your episodes that you speak about things around meditation and mindfulness. This self-command makes that, again, pretty digestible because it's the idea that when we see those negative emotions or we start to feel that we're getting hijacked by these saboteurs, that we stop and we do what's called PQ reps.

We stop and we do some deep breathing, or we stop and we really focus on how our fingertips feel, the ridges on our fingertips, or we focus on me looking in your eyes and really just focusing on that. But that just breaks that cycle of these thoughts that can really. You know, bring us on a bunny trail, bring us on a downward spiral.

And then the third piece of it, so we've got the saboteurs, we have self-command, and then sage, is that we then are able to have this calm and clarity and focus, because we've stopped that mind chatter. And then we can shift into things that are more positive. So we can empathize with others, or we can explore opportunities, or we can navigate what we've been dealing with and how we can best move through that. So there are five SAGE modalities.

So that positive mindset, this is a program I bring into all of my sessions with my clients, is really allowing us to see what has been sabotaging us. Because in those that are in the demographic that tend to be the retirement age, and again, I don't say what age you should retire at, that's an individual decision. But those that are tend to be in the baby boomer and generation X, Gen X generations. And so we were not raised with positive psychology.

We were raised with the no pain, no gain, get it done, push ahead. And if you have these difficult emotions, well, they're really not efficient and they're not going to be effective. So push them aside or push them down. And so I think this is where positive intelligence or mindfulness, meditation, whatever modality works for people, but allowing that those emotions are signals. They're not negative or positive. They're signals that something needs more attention.

And by allowing ourselves to give it attention instead of pushing them away or pushing them down, allows for that authentic life, allows us to come to the surface and see what's right for me or what's getting in the way or what's needed for me to move forward. And all of those things and more are very supportive as my clients navigate into and through retirement.

Okay. What advice do you have for those struggling to let go of their work identity after retirement? I think that one of the pivotal pieces is recognizing that it's not a whole new book. You know, we're not like starting all over. There's so much that we can bring with us into retirement. And so rather than a new book, it's a new chapter. And so what do we want to bring forward with us and what do we want to leave behind?

And so when we think about work and think about what patterns and habits are in place and which ones will continue to serve us and which don't belong with us any longer. And so I think that that's a really important factor right there is to recognize that we're not starting over. You've got a lot of skills, passions, capabilities, interests that have been developed maybe in work that you want to bring with you into retirement. And so let's use those as your superpowers.

Let's use those as your jumping off point and also recognize at the same time that there are things that maybe you're doing from a time management standpoint or a focus standpoint or any number of things that just don't fit any longer or maybe aren't fitting even in your career. But now you have an opportunity to let go of them.

I want to highlight too, WISE, that this idea of transitions and that I know for myself personally that as I moved up the career ladder and I changed jobs and then I changed roles, became a wife and became a mother. Became an entrepreneur, those are all transitions. But I always dealt with things until I learned more about it. From that external, that change of roles. And I would jump into the next thing because that was so exciting and, you know, off to the races.

And yet, to really harness the power of a transition when we're moving from one situation to another is to look internally. And there's been a lot of work around this that can really support us in making really positive, successful, empowered transitions. I want to highlight the work of William Bridges, who all of his work was around transitions and what he shares.

And it's a model that we still follow today, even though it was developed right 30 or so years ago, was this idea that we start with the ending when we're transitioning. So instead of jumping right into the new beginning, we start with the ending and we look at what do we need to have closure to? That's why rituals are so important. And when people have, you know, going away party, or they write notes to people that have been important to them in their work life or any number of things.

But what rituals will help us close and have that ending? What else is needed so far as what things do you need to let go of? So you start with that ending, and then you move into what Bridges called the neutral zone. And it's also been termed the messy middle, where we are going through all of these different and difficult and challenging emotions. We might feel stuck, we might feel unsure, we might feel anxious, we might feel excited, but we've got these emotions that are happening.

And it's important that we give them the attention that I mentioned earlier and allow them to surface, say, why am I feeling stuck? Why am I feeling like a deer in the headlights about retirement? Why am I feeling a sense of loss, which a number of my clients have? Where is that coming from and what's needed to help me understand it and either accept it or convert it before we move into the new beginning.

And so I think, and this works for, you know, again, at any age or life stage, if you're any for yourself as well, I've heard you mentioned some of the changes that you've made in your life. And so if we recognize the power of transition and not just on the external, make the changes, but do some internal work to see what is coming up for us and what can help us and support us moving ahead before we jump ahead. That's just very, very powerful.

So, as you know, we're here live and a friend of the show, Corrado, he wrote this. In 1984, my father, who had turned 67, decided to retire. After 60 months of being home and my mom still working, he went into a depression. Would not get out of bed, didn't want to eat. So we took him to a psychiatrist who spoke Italian. And after the doctor's evaluation of my dad, he told me and my mom, there's nothing wrong with your dad.

Your husband needs to go back to work. and luckily a cousin of mine had a bakery because my dad was a baker when he was living in Sicily before coming to the U.S.

Beautiful what a great share from Corrado thank you so much and I think that underscores what Wise and I are speaking about this idea of meaning and purpose you know that as human beings that's that's vitally important to us we all need to feel like we matter and it sounds as though your father when he retired he lost that and fortunately there was family that came to the fore and was able to see, wow, you still can offer up so much and that you have these skills and capabilities

and that you can really make a difference. And so that's important. And the story that Corrado is sharing is not a unique one.

There are so many stories and they're sad ones that oftentimes when people retire, that very shortly after, they end up becoming very ill or even passing away because they no longer see their place in the world. And yet by understanding some of the things that you and I are talking about today and sharing, we can see that it doesn't have to be that way. And that's why I'm so passionate about the work that I do. We all have so much to give no matter what age we are.

Yes, we're going to become older and that's a reality, but do we have to have that anti-aging mindset that says, oh, I got to do everything to not be old? Or do we just step into it and say, I'm of this age, but that doesn't define me. We're not put in a box because of our age unless we allow ourselves to be. And we're not put in a box because we've left work unless we allow ourselves to be. What came up for you when he shared that, Wise? Oh, man, to me, because Corrado's a good friend of mine.

We work together. And for me, it kind of brings back, because I've had co-workers who retired.

You hear months later that they have passed on because after they retired like we've been discussing they lose that purpose like they they find they finally realize that there's no they find they they end up thinking like oh man there's nothing i'm not doing anything i'm not worth anything and it is it's sad to see people go into retirement and then right shortly after i had a co-worker retire and all he was talking about is his home in Florida and going to go live in his home in Florida.

And a few months after he left the job, he passed away. And it was sad to hear that because this is someone who was talking about so much about retirement and all he was going to do in retirement. And it was sad to me. Very, very sad. And there's all kinds of different reasons. I don't know why it happened with your co-worker.

We do know, though, there are some things in our control. And one of the things in our control and what you bring forward to your listeners is that we don't want to just be stuck in our mind. You know, that if it's a matter that we just have thoughts that I no longer matter or thoughts that, you know, now that I have left work, I don't have anything else to offer.

Those are just thoughts. And I've shared a lot of the inroads today, and I have many others that allow us to have that map into a retirement that does feel fulfilling, that does allow us to feel a sense of purpose and identity. We didn't speak about the connection, the connection, and luckily Carado's. Relative cousin had that connection. And so he was able to then bring forward some things that really revitalized the dad.

But we need to also look at our connections as well because we're social creatures. And in work, again, connection is baked in. And when we leave work, we leave those connections behind.

And so, yes, we might think that we'll continue to have those same relationships, but we know that when we don't share that same common goal that we do in work, oftentimes we don't have the same kind of connection with the people we've been working with so it's again important that we look at who's in our life where do we want to deepen some of those relationships where do we want to resurrect some relationships and where do we want to start to find

fresh friends as well one of my clients had said that because she'd been so busy at work and now she was retiring that she felt very disconnected from a lot of people and she really hadn't fostered those relationships. And so I said, well, what would it take for you to reach out and start those anew? And she said, well, I don't know that they'd want to hear from me. And I said, well, let's flip the script and say, what if one of them reached out to you?

Would you hang up on them? Would you not want to take the call? And she said, no, of course I would welcome it. And I said, well, then how about if you're that person? How about I invite you to try it and just reach out. And she said it was so gratifying and she was really able to reconnect. So I want to offer up to you, it's never too late. Again, our minds can make us think all kinds of things, but are they the truth? Are they reality?

And so, so let's make sure that we don't lose those connections because we know as we age, there will be loss in our lives. And so if our, If we allow that circle to get so much smaller, then our perspective is going to get smaller too.

And we can keep it expansive. We can keep it open. And let's stay connected. So how can someone use retirement as an opportunity for personal growth and development? Because that's something that we always discuss here. Just because you're in retirement and older doesn't mean that you can't work on yourself. Yeah. I mean, it's such an exciting adventure, right? Because that's just something that's just so open-ended that we can always be

working to be our best self each day. And each day when we wake up, we have that opportunity again. And so I think by having that mindset that everything's possible and that when things don't end up going the way we necessarily thought, that we can see the possibilities and gifts in that and we can pivot is, I think, a cornerstone to that mental well-being and staying, you know, integrated. I think that really recognizing, you know, what is our mood each day?

Like I know for myself, before I got involved with my coaching journey, I would wake up some mornings already feeling behind. I would wake up some mornings just feeling anxious. And I think I was working in my, you know, in my dreams. And I was, you know, I'd always just wake up thinking, oh gosh, I've got to do this, this, this. And that was something that I really was able to work on. So I would just challenge all of us to look at what does our day look like?

What's, again, serving us? What's holding us back? And what's one little step? Not a big leap, but what's one little step that we can do to help ourselves? So, for example, with me, what I decided to do is before I got out of bed, I would just do a little mini meditation. You know, five minutes of deep breathing. And just, I would, for me, what worked is I would breathe in calm and I would breathe out confusion. Or I would breathe in peace and I would breathe out upset or whatever.

And that just allowed me to settle my nervous system and start the day in a very different way. So that was my first step. I think a lot of times we just think we have to just eat the whole elephant instead of just taking a little time. Yeah, and there's that great work by James Clear around habit building, Atomic Habits is his book. But then he just says, take the smallest step toward your big goal. And I think that oftentimes we can just get so overwhelmed thinking, oh, I can't do it.

That just stops us in our tracks. So I think that that's something that I want to offer up to people at any age, and especially in retirement, is that shifting that mindset, you have the control to do that. Also, the work of Carol Dweck around growth mindset. You know, we're not fixed human beings. We have the ability to change and grow if we're open to it and if we step into things with what's called a beginner's mind.

Oftentimes when we're in career, we are the expert or we've gotten to a level of capability and so it's hard to start over. But I'm the poster child, well, not really a poster child, but I'm an example of going back to school, you know, and like talk about people who have a beginner's mind and things and starting from scratch. And so again, not scratch, but starting at the beginning with.

With schooling at that time. So, so I think that that's something to bear in mind too, is that experimentation, just trying things out. Failure isn't failure, it's learning and just being willing to, to give things a try. Because if we leap into things, that's where some people, and you probably recall when there was that big unretirement and so many people ended up going back to work.

Well, a percentage of them went back to work because they just really had jumped all the way in, like that one client I talked about, all the way into filling up their dance cart. Maybe people make a full-time commitment around volunteering or a full-time commitment around taking care of grandkids or jumping into starting a business. But all in, and oftentimes that can really end up just being too big of a leap.

So let's just take a step in, experiment, see what feels good, be aware of those emotions that are coming up, what's true to you, what really feels purposeful to you before then you make that further commitment. Awesome. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Okay. Um. What are some practical ways retirees can build a positive mindset?

Yeah, well, I think if we allow ourselves to say, okay, I'm feeling stuck, I'm feeling confused, or I'm feeling anxious, or I'm feeling excited, is giving yourself a moment to reflect on that. You know, where is that confusion coming from? And really, really kind of stepping into that and saying, okay, I'm feeling confused because I don't know what's in front of me. Okay, what would help me to know what's in front of me?

Well, if I think a little bit more about what I envision for myself in retirement. Well, I don't know how to do that. Well, let's just think a little bit about one thing that you've been putting off that would make you really excited. So I think that that's what I would recommend is allowing those negative or difficult emotions to surface. and rather than pushing them aside, just digging a little bit deeper.

And that's where a coach can help. That's where a confident can help because you want somebody who is objective and empathetic and is going to be a good listener as opposed to giving you advice and saying you should do this, do this. I didn't bring up that idea of the doing versus the being, but so often we do as human beings, We get so busy with things that we leave ourselves, again, on the sidelines, instead of the being and really thinking about how does this feel to me, what's needed now?

And remember that we're human beings, we're not human doings. And so when we really focus in on those emotions first, then we know that those emotions are going to impact our thoughts, which impact our beliefs, which then impact our actions. So really keying into those emotions.

So what role do hobbies and personal interests play in a fulfilling retirement? Yeah. I mean, I think that when somebody gets into flow, you know, when there's something that's just so interesting to them, like podcasting was for you, I recall listening to you talking about it and that it was just, it just captured your interest and drew you in. And so hobbies and activities that really allow for that where time kind of

falls away and we just feel fully engaged. And it's really resonant with what's important to us as opposed to what people have told us to do. So I think that that's where, whether it's a hobby, it's an activity, it's a vocation, it's a learning, whatever it is, but allowing ourselves to just feel that, you know, that sense of joy and that sense of curiosity, wonder.

And so if, like for me, and I'm not retired and I don't plan to be anytime soon, but I was thinking, you know, I've always wanted to sing better. Just for myself, it's not like I have any further aspirations. But I remember when I was young, like I was five years old, Mr. Fink, the music teacher, said I was sour-noted. And I'm just carrying that with me forever. And so, and then I,

we have three sons who are now all adults. but one of them loved me singing and my twins would just say, no more mom. So, so I just kind of carried that with me. And so I've started looking into taking voice lessons again, just for me, because I would really, I liked the idea of being able to express myself that way. So I hope that kind of gives an example of when we talk about hobbies or activities, having something that's coming from you.

And yeah, it could be that your friends say, Hey, come try pickleball. Sure experiment with it or hey come volunteer here experiment or you saw that somebody in your life did you know woodworking or they did knitting or whatever and you think oh I'll give it a try but again just experiment with it to see if it really captures your interest because we know that when we feel connected to things we'll feel more motivated and we'll continue on.

All right. All right. So final question, and then you get the solo screen and you get to plug away.

Can you explain the concept of realistic optimism in retirement and how can it help individuals navigate this phase of life? Yeah, so I appreciate being able to really spotlight that because I think I touched upon it earlier where oftentimes people come in at one end of the spectrum or the other, that they really look at it at retirement with this idealistic view that's built up in the media.

And we see all these pictures of travel and we see beaches and we see and we hear people going on all these vacations and things and checking off their bucket list. So that's one end of the spectrum. And the other end that a number of people fall in that camp too is this idea that I'm getting old and I can't do this any longer and that I'm invisible. I hear that from a lot of my clients or that nobody's paying attention to me.

And so that's that pessimistic view. And so the realistic optimism is this idea of looking at what I've brought to the table today, having an awareness that, yes. The reality is that retirement can be a struggle for people. The reality that some people, like your friend's father, don't have a vision for themselves, and so things can go very, very badly. Or the reality that, on average, a retiree watches 47 hours of TV a week. They've replaced a full-time job with a full-time job of watching TV.

That's a reality. So we have this reality, but we're also optimistic. So we know, okay, I could fall into that trap of watching TV. That's the reality. But I'm optimistic to note that, you know what, I'm going to do more for myself. I'm going to really spend some time thinking about what do I envision in retirement? What do I want to bring with me? What am I capable of? What am I excited about?

And then make a plan and step into it fully. So that would then give us that realistic optimism that, yes, we have a heightened awareness that we need to be planful, that we need to really look at what's important to us and design a retirement that's of our choosing and take accountability for it and then be excited about it and shift that hope into action.

Awesome awesome thank you this has been a wonderful conversation i've had a great time having you on the show this is when when corrado interacts it's a i it's what it's like one of my favorite episodes because.

That's what i love is when people can can resonate with uh with uh with an interview, have him share this this this personal part of his life for me it it validates what i'm doing here it shows me that by doing the podcast impacted people's lives because now people get to share a part of their this their lives and their stories and and now parado's a part of the podcast because he shared something intimate.

Beautiful. Yeah. I'm very appreciative of it too, because it, it kind of expands our learning and our understanding and also that it takes theoretical things and makes it real, you know, and lets us know that, yeah. And we all know people in our lives that really haven't been able to fully step into retirement or fully realize the, the beautiful opportunities that are there. So like I said, now is the time where you get the solo screen and you let people know where they can find you everywhere.

I so appreciate that. So the name of my company is Conflux Retirement Coaching, and that's C-O-N-F-L-U-X. So you can look at my website, I hope you will, at ConfluxRetirementCoaching.com or email me at Wendy at ConfluxRetirementCoaching.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, Wendy Leggett. I co-authored a book called The Retirement Collective and I'd love you to check it out. I do a chapter in there around uncovering hidden thoughts and feelings.

And so it gets at this whole emotional equation that Wives and I have been speaking about. And then also I'd love to offer for anyone that would enjoy it, a little mini workbook around retirement planning. You know, we've talked a lot about getting some of your ideas down on paper and recognizing what your perspective is and having this roadmap to retirement. And so I offer that for you if you'd like it in this little mini workbook.

And then you're very welcome to follow up and call with me. And that'll be complimentary because I've been on the show as a guest of Wises. So you can find that at BoldNewSteps.com. So that's BoldNewSteps.com or ask for it when you click on a link in my website. On my website. So thank you for that opportunity. And I look forward to connecting with all of you. Thank you once again for being such a wonderful guest. Thank you.

This is a great interview. Hopefully people can take a lot from what we discussed. To me, like I said, when Colorado interacts, I know it's a good episode because he really talks about a lot of personal stuff. So yeah, to me, it was a successful episode. Thank you very much. Greatly appreciate your expertise and you coming on and sharing everything, everything you know. So thank you.

Oh, and thank you for all your insightful questions and your stories as well, because that always, again, opens up all of our awareness and learning. So thank you. Don't leave just yet. Let me close out the show and we'll chat a little bit before I'm off the air. But again, thank you so much. Thank you. All right, everybody. Another episode is in the books.

Thank you everyone who who's gonna catch who's caught it live or if you catch the replay thank you if you haven't subscribed please subscribe hit the notification bells thank you corrado for always supporting and and and being a part of the show love you brother and i appreciate you i can always count on you to to come through and and and share and and be a part of of this journey with me big shout out to my real wise fam poppy j brandy j love you guys shout out to the boss lady love you and

appreciate you and as always big big shout out to all the essential workers out there god bless you be safe and listen i don't care who you vote for go out there and vote make a difference let your voices be heard it's very important so please go out there and vote If it's early voting or if you're waiting for Tuesday, please just go out there, do your God-given right.

And I appreciate you all for tuning in and being supportive and making this wonderful experience for me on this wonderful journey that I'm on with the podcast and all the wonderful people that I've been able to connect with. So thank you all. I greatly appreciate it. And as always, you know how your boy lives, does it? Peace out. We'll be right back. Music. Thank you.