And welcome to another episode of Stuck My Mind. I am your host, w I z e, and I'm excited. My next guest is a, is a it's gonna be an it's an amazing it's gonna be an amazing conversation. She's in she's a a wellness coach. Welcome to the show, Shana Van Moore. It's Shana. Shana. Sorry. Shana. Shana. It's okay. Van Moore. Yeah. I just pronounce that. And and I'm actually, an organic growth marketer who just helps, holistic health and wellness coaches.
Coaches in general. People who deal with the mind and habits and getting shit done, if you will. So what what got you started on on on being an organic growth marketer? Well, that's that's a long story, my friend. So if let's see if I can condense it. Well, now I've always been a very creative mind. I've loved writing. I tapped into my my the writing side of my creativity very young and pursued that throughout, university. My first degree was in psychology, so I got to tap into the human
condition. There's a lot of writing involved there. And then my second degree is, in fact, in rhetoric and professional writing, rhetoric being the art of persuasion. Throughout university, I freelance wrote blogs and other types of content for businesses. And then I realized that my talent with the human condition and my knowledge about rhetoric, the art of persuasion, as well as my ability in professional writing led
naturally to conversion copywriting. After diving into conversion copywriting, I realized that there was a very deep seated need for people to understand their brand messaging and the way they come across to their clients in an effective way, in a way that felt good to them and to their clients, conversion that feels good. From there, it just blew
up. Now we're now we're helping people with all sorts of marketing, particularly organic marketing, so that you can really connect with your audience and convert at a higher rate. So when when you mean organic, you mean where paid. Okay. Yeah. Because that's that's yeah. Because that's where a lot of people tend to go nowadays is the paid mark the paid format. Yeah. And there's and it's interesting because paid ads, you get a
lot of that. I mean, as an entrepreneur, you're being fed all the time. Oh, you should do paid ads. Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Google, all the places, paid ads. But the the truth of the matter is, paid ads only work once you're earning a certain amount and able to handle a certain capacity
and also when you understand how they work. And, usually, that's not until a certain point, and so what really winds up happening is, especially if your business isn't quite at the point where it can actually handle it, you wind up, giving into actually, one of my mentors calls it, Facebook philanthropy. You're just giving Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, you want my money?
Here you go. And then you're then you're kinda stuck. So that's where the organic stuff comes in, and you start to learn how to really leverage your your person, who you are, your authenticity, and the way you can reach out to other people in an effective way that also grows your business. Yeah. Because me as as a podcaster, you don't know how many times I I get messages about, oh, let promote your podcast. It's organically, and then and then the moment you stop paying,
the growth stops. And and so for me, it's I've been growing my podcast organically. I've been busting my butt, appearing on other podcasts, having great guests, having my guests share the podcast. And so it's grown slowly but steadily, and it's grown. And I feel
good because it's done organically. It's done I see the work that I've put into, and and I've found tools that actually have helped me especially in this last year with ChatJBT and and other another apps that I've I've started using, that it's helped me grow my podcast to a to it's taking this past year, I've taken it to another level compared to my first two and a half years, and it's all been done
organically. It's been me grinding and and networking and connecting with different people, And it feels so much better when then when you you hear these stories of people paying other people to promote them and pay and and once they stop paying, the growth stops. And I and I don't want that. I want I'd rather it grow slowly, but it it grows steadily. So I'm I'm happy with what I'm doing. Yeah. No. And I love that.
And that's actually one of the things that I really lean on when it comes to organic growth marketing is that it is that steady growth. It's sustainable business growth. Right? When you're just feeding money into a marketing system, paid ads, which, listen, I have nothing against it. You just need to be prepared for that world. It's a whole different world. And so, you know, when you're when you're actually doing the work, you're networking,
you're growing, it's sustainable. And if you do it right, the way that I know that you're doing here when you're utilizing tools that will help you to not be the bottleneck to your organic growth. And I hope you're not grinding too hard because that's another element of organic growth that people can get caught up in is they wind up do wearing all the hats. And you don't necessarily need to in order to actually have more success as you grow organically. Oh, no. I've I've helped I've had,
a friend of mine feel better. Phenomenal. He's the podcast mogul. He's he's helped me automate my my like, get into automation, sending out weekly emails, and it's all just clicks, little clicks here and there. Yes. And and the emails are gone. So that's something that I like, I that's one of the tools that I've added within the past year. It's automating my is automating my content and sent and collect and learning how to collect emails.
I I use SendFox to to help me create pages that I can collect emails with and all the so it it's I've seen the growth with me using these tools and and really learning to to grow organically, really share my my content and and and see the difference from when I wasn't using these tools to where I'm using them now and and just seeing the response that I'm getting and and engagement I'm getting.
So for me, it's really been something that's, it's helped a lot, and I'm still learning, growing, and and there's certain things that I I talked to him about. And I I I'm I'm someone who loves I love to learn, and I ask questions. So if there's something that I wanna I wanna learn, I'll go out and seek the information. And that's like, I I truly believe that, like, if you've stopped learning, you're dead. Like, truly. Like, what's the point? What's the point anymore if we can't always
learn and grow and evolve and try something new? I noticed that you have shorts as well on your on your, YouTube channel. Like, it's an amazing repurposing of this great content. As long as once you learn how to repurpose the content, utilize the tools that will support you in your day to day so that you're not grinding all the time. Automation tools. Amazing. That's that's what I'm all about. I'm all about streamlining that systemic the the I was gonna say systemic. I guess that's true, but it
kinda sounds medical, doesn't it? But streamlining your your marketing systems. Right? Just to make sure that you're actually living your life while you're scaling your business. What's the point in having a business if all you're gonna do is grind? That's not the point. Most of us start our business to, yeah, sure, earn money, but also to live the
life we want, to live life on our terms. So if you don't have a system that allows you to do that, if you're always, like you said, relying on giving your money to someone else to grow through paid marketing or doing all of the things and wearing all the hats because you haven't systematized your marketing, then what's the point? We wanna live life. We wanna have fun. We wanna make an impact.
Spread the wealth. You know? Yeah. No. It it's it's true, and that's and that's something I've learned this year is to build a system. It's still it's I'm still building it. It's still but it the point of of it is is getting started and implementing things that I and, of course, every time I gain something new to help me improve the system, then I add that. So it's it's it's been, an amazing year this past year, like, with with as far the as far as the growth I've seen in in the podcast and and
what I'm doing. And, again, it it I was gonna say classic Maya Angelou. Right? When you know better, do better every single time. Love it. Yeah. And it is is you know what it is? And when I decided to really shift the podcast more to having coaches and marketing specialists and all these people come on to the show, I'm learning in those in those conversations as well. So it's it's it's a benefit to
me. It's a benefit to the audience. And so I'm when I'm you get you speaking to all these different people and gaining all these insights and all these conversations, it's only helping me. And so I I I love this. I love I love the fact that I get to sit down and have these conversations and learn from some amazing people like yourself and and see the growth and see when you implement these tools and when you implement when you have these conversations. And I I just
I just have a great time. Like, by the time this conversation is done, I'll be wired. Oh, I love it. It's it's just some great energy. I love it. That's perfect. That's exactly the way the way to be. That's actually one of the main reasons why I started my own podcast because I went and said, you know what? I'm having all these conversations
anyway. I'm benefiting from these conversations immensely because there's I I always say, you know, you could be one of the smartest people, the Einsteins of the world, and you only know a grain of sand compared to what is possible to be known. And so to think that you know everything, that to be so presumptuous as to think that you couldn't possibly learn from a conversation with another human being is ridiculous. And so I thought, you know, every time I have a conversation, I stay curious.
I love learning about the world. Right? So I'm like, oh, this is really cool. I really love what you have to say. Wouldn't it be cool if everybody got to take part in this conversation? Yeah. So that's what I did too. I'm I'm with you. We just, like, blow it out of the water. When we invite other people, we create a community of conversation to really learn and grow together. So we're both in the same boat a lot. Oh, yeah. No. It it it's just been like,
I didn't like, I'm not in media. I didn't kept making excuses to why I couldn't do it or why I shouldn't do it. And then when I finally decided to to face that fear and and make myself uncomfortable and and finally record something, and it was, like, 7 minutes long. I don't even think it was that long. And I just uploaded it, and and it was like, okay. I uploaded it, of of course, and I had a 1 or 2 listens. I'm like, okay. Somebody listen to
it. And it but it was just a a introduction to what I was planning on doing with the podcast and and with with each episode, like, with each time I recorded, it just got longer. It went from 7 minutes to 10 minutes to the point where I one of the first shows, like, probably episode 13 17, 18. I had to make it a double episode because me and the guy recorded for 3 hours. Oh, man. That that must have been an amazing conversation. Well, it was it was one of my first he was from India,
and he had a horrific accident. Oh. I'm like, he was on a a scooter, and something happened, and it ejected it just he just threw and ran into this back this this back and just shattered his face. And so to be able to sit down and have this conversation with him and talk about his struggles and everything he went through to where he's at now where and this was, like, 3 years ago, so I gotta actually reach out to him and see how he's
doing. But it was just an amazing story, and we just had a 3 hour conversation, so I split it. And from there, I knew this is what I wanna do. Like, that episode really solidified. Like, this is having these conversations, hearing these stories from people, and and having having and it was, again, it was it was me learning how to master an interview because and if honestly, it shouldn't have been 3 in a 3 hours, but it was me learning my craft.
It was me learning how to and as as I did more episodes, I I kinda improved and kinda, like, this is what I wanna ask. These questions are the ones I wanna ask. Keep it simple. Don't wanna really have it drag on to them because let's be honest. People have short attention spans. So It's true. And that's and that's and that's with, like, everything that you're putting out into the world. I'm constantly reminding people, like, okay. We're creating your
website. This is a really great marketing asset. Remember that you have 3 seconds, less than 3 seconds, to grab the attention of the person who's lands on your website. So if you haven't been really clear in your messaging in the in the banner, in that first banner before they even scroll anywhere, they're gone. Bounce rate, gone. So you're right. You need to really make sure that it's shorter and jam packed with value. Something that people
wanna listen to. Like, what's going on? Get a little cur what's going on here? I wanna join this conversation. How can I explore this for myself? That's how you really create a community using a marketing channel like podcasting because I believe that you're never not marketing. So regardless of the reason why you started this Yeah. It's still a marketing channel. You're still showing up and spreading your word and and being
amazing. Mhmm. And and the thing is it's podcasting right now is is just growing. It's and and and market and marketing is is growing. It's really becoming a major part of of podcasting business, and and and everyone is realizing that podcast is where people right now have the
attention at. This is where. And so to be able to have these conversations and learn about marketing and learning these these thing these skills and and the value and the importance of it, is it's just for me, it's been, like, so much information, but I this is something I wanna learn because I see the value in it as far as far as people view like, just people come catching your content and really consume like, recently,
it's just a lot of people been consuming content. Like, my I've I've been blown away at this past year at, honestly, I was probably, like, 8,000 I was at 8,000, 9,000 downloads a year ago Total. Total. And with the with all the amazing tools and and learning how to use Instagram and TikToks and and all these different things to help grow the podcast, I've jumped up to, like, 25,000. Yeah. Yeah. That's perfect. I love that. From 8, 9000 total to now 25,000
total in in less than a year. And and it's because of to and it's because of the tools that I've I've been learning about and and the conversations I've been having with people about marketing and other things you can do to help grow organically. Yeah. This is a classic case study. Like, if anybody's sitting on the fence, if whether you're an you're an entrepreneur or whether you just have something to say, you're a podcast host. I'm just here because I want to say something. You know? It
doesn't matter what it is. If you want your voice to be heard, if you want, to expand your reach, which is, you know, the marketing term for just getting more eyes on you and your business, then you need to market. Like, there is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
If you're nervous about it, this is where like, my business is called marketing confidence because a lot of people, even if even if they're old hat, even if they're used to showing up on camera or they're used to just being kind of present, there comes a time always where you kinda reach a point where you you become kinda stagnant. You reach a plateau or a glass ceiling, so to speak. You get into, like, a rut and you're like, well,
I'm I'm doing okay, but I'm not really growing. I'm not really doing the same that I wanna do. Well, we need to switch gears and get your confidence up again so that you can actually start showing up in a way that matters using marketing. So no matter where you're at, no matter what stage you're at, marketing is gonna be important. And to have confidence in that marketing is is to 10 x's the importance of the marketing because it 10 x is the results you're gonna get. Eyes on your stuff.
If you're a business owner, conversion. Hello. That's dollars in pocket. Right? And never mind that if you're really, really heart and soul centered. Impact and legacy building. That's massive. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's it's amazing, Rodell. Right? Like, this time this is the time right now where if you really applied yourself and you really started really work, it's it's a digital world at the moment, and learning these skills are it it's
it's game changing for people. For for some people, it's it's life altering. People are built people are building some amazing companies at right now at at this point, and and some of them some of them do it with the way they market. The way like, some of the marketing you see out there now
is, like, amazing. Like, wow. Would it but, again, it's it's for for at least for independent podcasters, it's it's different because we might not have the machine like Spotify and all these other people, like the celebrities who have these podcasts, that they already have the fame, and they already have the machine
backing them up. But someone like me, an independent podcaster, who's not a celebrity and not well known, is able to really if if I market it right and and I and I use the tools properly, can really make an impact. And and that and that's the that's the difference now is, like, I I when I first started, I didn't know where this was
gonna take me. And so once I really started getting into it and and and people started responding and sending messages, and just the response, just people saying, like, I needed to hear that episode or the conversation you had with such and such person. Thank you. And then and recently, it was someone I interviewed a year ago, but I had forgotten to to release the episode. And when I released it, they were going through something, and they read all the
description and the comment. They they they read everything about the episode, and they sent me a message. They're like, this is the episode we recorded last year. Right? I was like, yes. And she's she was like, the words you said in in the description, thank you. Because she says, I haven't been feeling that way in in quite some time, and to read that in the description from our episode helped it was it to me, it was I was I was I I was blown away
by by the fact that something we recorded. It was our episode, and it helped her. The pro so for me, it it was like, wow. It's surprising Yeah. How the small things make such a massive difference. And and this is something actually that I do with my own podcast after we do something like this. We actually do a little live on Instagram so we can talk about it where I'm I'm over there, SLA Marketing Confidence, and we talk about a I like to say we don't talk about Bruno, which means we
don't talk about the actual podcast. We just kinda hint at it, but we talk about some other really important topics that kind of stem out of that. And then I ask a few questions that are designed to make people realize. And I mean, everybody, watchers, but also my guests, realize the amazing impact that they actually have on the world. And the last one I I had asked, I asked the question, he gave the answer. I asked a follow-up
question, and he said, wow. I feel like I'm almost failing based on your question. And I said, okay. Why do you feel that way? And he explored that a little further, and the interesting thing was some of the things that he described as him failing at succeeding at the thing he wanted to do were actually him succeeding, were actually him taking action. And when I got him to put it into perspective, and this is something that I I find is a pretty big superpower of my own. It's that idea of
you think that this doesn't mean as much, that this little thing. Right? It doesn't matter what it is. You don't think it means that much. I'm hoping I'm not blocking my microphone. But I like to show you what that means in the big picture. Without that thing, that little thing that you think is insignificant, that picture, that beautiful mosaic of life, of experiences, of all the people, it's not complete. You can't possibly appreciate the glory
of it all without that one little piece. And this goes to to things as, as tactical as content. Right? Content marketing. People think, oh, well, I don't wanna talk about what do I talk about to my clients? What do they need? I guess I'll talk about this or that or and I I usually it's almost like pulling teeth trying to get these wonderfully intelligent people to pull back the layers, pull back the layers. I want to get to the root of it. They're experts. Right? They're on step
683. Their people wanna hear step 12. So to get back to those basics, oftentimes my experts are saying, but it's too simple. I said, no. No. Those little bits of information are absolutely vital to see the big picture. Stop. You need to you need to share those things. It's it's necessary. And then share them again and again and again until you're sick of sharing it because somebody out there hasn't heard it yet
and they need to hear it. So important. And that's just here's me being all philosophical, but it it it matters. It matters. No. It does. No. It does. No. Listen. It it really does. It it, I've I've realized that, I I I need to do this podcast. This is this is something for me that, is very important. It's it's to me, I'm I'm successful at it because I'm making an impact. And, like, if it's one person, 2 people I help. To me, it's it's a ripple effect because that one person might go on and
help 10 other people. So if I'm able to reach 1 person and impact that one person's life, I am doing what I'm supposed to do for my podcast. And lucky for me that I've built an audience that that is very supportive, that is very, encouraging, and and that's why I kinda went to live because, sometimes when they when they catch it and and interact, it's so much fun. Like, even the guest sometimes, they
ask questions and the guest sees the questions and they'll answer it. And so when I transitioned to live, it was because of the fact that I wanted to make the audience part of the show. And so to be able to, do the live and then just have those have those comments pop up and have the guest answer them to me was was was amazing because now I made the it it it made the audience it it made it their show as well. Yes. Yes. And community building is one of the most underrated elements
of marketing. People often think of marketing as being synonymous with sales, But I'm here to kind of wave the flag that says, actually, marketing is all about relationship building.
We're looking to build a relationship. So if you don't have a clear and and concise message that gets people thinking or gets people emotionally engaged with whatever it is that you're putting out into the world, if you don't create opportunities like you just did for your audience to actually reach out and be a part of the conversation, then you're
not effectively marketing. Plain and simple. If all you're doing it is for the sales, sure, you might be a flash in the pan, but that's not long term sustainable marketing success. We see this actually in big brands today. You look at any ad for Nike or Adidas or Apple, they're centered around the human condition, around the human experience and togetherness, especially this time of year. Yeah.
So this is what sells. We see this actively in these big brands and in the independently as solopreneurs and and ambitious legacy creators, we need to be focusing on those relationships, starting conversations, and building a community. Absolutely. And that that's one thing I've definitely worked on this year is building my community. I've I've built my Facebook group to almost 606100 people members.
And, again, it's it's it's wonderful because you because I I post a, a message every day on the group, and I love the response. I love the response that I get within the group and and the comments and everything. So it's it's being able to build these relationships and and network with these people and and and just to see it grow. It it's been it's been again, this is not something that when I
started podcasting that I thought I would be doing. And but to to really start learning how to build a community and and and just learning how to really open up and and embrace it all and and and just just providing a space where people get to network and connect and and build. And that's my ultimate goal is to is to build a community where we're all very successful and and and doing some amazing things. And, again, success is different for other people.
Mhmm. For me, it's wanting to just help and and just being someone who's there to like, new podcasters. I love helping new podcasters because I know when I started, I didn't really have that kind of support. So when I hear someone someone and when I'm in a group, in some Facebook group or whatever, and someone has a question, I I love to answer it and and provide knowledge that if I have it, why not share it? Kudos to that.
Honestly, that's amazing. And it really just shows your heart. And when when you're when you're leading with your heart in a in a passion project such as this, you're you used your words perfectly. It is that ripple effect. You create such a massive impact on the next person even if it's just 1. Yeah. And I'm grateful that that you're doing exactly what you're doing.
If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm grateful. Thank you. Thank you. But now you get the, because I know we were a little pressed for time, but, now is the time where you get the solo screen, you get to share where everybody could find you, your content, everything. Awesome. Well, goodness gracious. So, yes, as a I wasn't I wasn't expecting the spot spotlight so soon, my friend. Get me all worked up and grateful for you, and my heart's bursting. So, yes, you can find me at www.shawnaleigh.com.
That's shawnaleigh dotcom. Connect with me there. Reach out. I'm on all of the socials. You'll find the links on that website. I really I don't bite. So say hello. And and maybe if you or somebody else, you know, needs some tips and tricks about, organic content marketing, organic, growth marketing, then let me know.
I I also have a Facebook group. By the way, my friends, I also have a Facebook group, and it is essentially the place it's the go to place when you need marketing advice, but you're not quite prepared to pay for a marketer to come in like a fractional CMO, and you just need the next step to break past whatever that obstacle is that's preventing you from achieving the success you're looking for, and this is the place to be. It's free.
It's a community much like we were just talking about because that's something that's near and dear to my heart as well. Alright. Alright. Thank you so much for being a guest. I wish we could have more time. But you know what? This means we're gonna have to have, a part 2. Absolutely. Absolutely. We can dive into and what's really cool about this particular situation is
I'm I'm an open book. I truly am. I'm an open book. So when we have another conversation, for all of the audience members watching this, please leave your questions in the comments. Now I will respond, and I can dive deeper into these questions the next time we have a conversation. I'm here to help. That's kind of what I'm here for. Definitely. Definitely. But thank you so much, Shauna. This has been great. I I appreciate you being a guest.
Thank you for your patience. But, let me close out the show and talk to you for a couple of minutes before you go. But, thank you so much. Love it. Alright, everybody. Thanks everyone who's tuning in later on the replay because I know, it's a busy time of the year. But thank you everyone who's been supportive. Greatly appreciate it. Shout out to my RealWise fan, Poppy j, Brandy j. Love you guys. Shout out to the boss lady. Love you and appreciate you.
Shout out to my guests, Shauna, for coming through and being patient with me, and I'm I'm looking forward to having her back on the show because I think we deserve some more time. I think this can really be a very interesting conversation, so definitely gotta have it back on. And as always, a big, big shout out to all the essential workers out there. God bless y'all. Be safe. You know your boy, Wise, does it. Peace out.