Michelle Baty (00:00):
Procrastination is a super collision of different reflexive behaviors pulling us in all of the directions and therefore we move in none of the directions. One part of us is saying, do the thing you must do the thing you should do the thing. Another is saying, gosh, I'm tired and I'm always doing things. And now just another thing, another part of us is saying, well, maybe I'll just rest first because I could get the energy to then do the thing. The other is going, someone's watching you see you've done this before and you've failed before and you're doing that thing again. And another one goes, you know what? Screw everything. This is just a lot. Just like put it on the shelf. Just pause.
Michelle MacDonald (00:49):
Alright, let's go. Let's dive into part two of my conversation with Michelle Baty. In our last episode, we explored the neuroscience behind real Change, how being in a connected state allows us to build habits that actually stick. Today we're going to take it a step further. We'll break down the skills and strategies you can use to get into that connected state more often. Plus why self-awareness is the foundation for real progress. Michelle's been working with thousands of people to help 'em create lasting transformation and I know this episode is going to be packed with insights. You can apply right away. Alright, welcome back to the show everybody. Michelle Baty here for episode two where we are going to dive deeper into the skills and strategies that you can use to get into that connected state. And I want to talk more about how crucial self-awareness is in this whole journey because it is a very important piece if you're going to be able to check yourself before you wreck yourself. One of my favorite sayings, I think Hattie might've shared that one with me, so welcome back to the show, Michelle, and let's dive in. Can we talk a little bit about the skills and strategies?
Michelle Baty (02:05):
It's really interesting. I started becoming fascinated with psychology from the age of seven years old actually. I wanted to run my own business from home, be a psychologist at seven Friends, wanted to be a ballerina or a firefighter, and I was like, no, I'm so fascinated by human behavior. I love human beings so much, particularly pattern recognition. And one of the things I've noticed over the last, I would say six to seven years, which was well and truly into my career and into this field, is there's a lot of sharing and mostly in the socials world of surface level, insta psychology, I guess you can call it that. I'm showing my age here. But in that it's really not quite a clear definition or application of practices to support our system and being able to get the result we want. So what do I mean by this?
(03:00):
When we talk about understanding psychology and self-awareness, which was your question, it's great to know why things show up and also it's just simply not enough. It's a great start to be able to go, yep, okay, this is elicited in my system. I have this thought and behavior because of this experience in the past. This is why, this is why this is. However, one of the number one challenges I've seen over years and years and years working with hundreds and in bigger companies, thousands of women, is that why isn't the same thing as what do I do with this and how do I practice that to be able to get the result? So the mechanisms of why in neuropsychology are really helpful to normalize and give some permission around things that you're not crazy and you're not lazy and your nervous system is doing what it needs to survive.
(03:52):
And also in honor of goals, just knowing that isn't quite enough for us to go, but Michelle, what do I do next and how does that show up day to day and how do I apply specific things to be able to get a better result so I can stay alive, but also maybe move towards my goals too and feel really good about my choices? So I love the question you're asking here around skills and habits. Notoriously that doesn't show up so much in the psychology field, very much in the coaching field, and I'd say more and more over years. The integration between the two is really powerful. We want to understand from a self-awareness perspective, we'll talk more about that in a moment, what that means from a brain perspective and a nervous system perspective, but also that is simply the birthplace for us to then ask the questions with a coach or a community or a support system to go, well what next? And specifically, what can I practice to be able to shift and improve and change that dynamic internally? So I want to impart that piece. Why is great, self-awareness is great and self-management is the piece that comes next and absolutely the piece in coaching, which I value so much, it tends to be missing sometimes in the self-awareness world.
Michelle MacDonald (05:08):
Yeah, that's one of my lines and my clients listening will say, yep, that sounds like Coach Michelle. I'll say, listen, you have your therapist and I know you're talking with him or her, but I'm your coach and my job is to give you actionable strategies so you can move forward towards your goals. And that's, I said, I'm not a therapist, I'm not going to hold your hand. I got to help you get across this river, but I love what you said. I love what you said about that integration and for sure with my coaching team, with my husband, we are so entrenched in this idea of creating space and capacity as well and really imploring the clients how important it's to not just achieve a goal, but to really focus on purpose, on core values, and on this idea that you are becoming someone with the processes that you're choosing to follow. So choose well, don't just chase a goal because somebody else is doing it, and then how do you talk to yourself and who are you becoming along the way? That's so crucial.
Michelle Baty (06:17):
I love that distinction and it's really interesting, the different entry points, working with so many coaches and so many people in the past, the different entry points to elicit that second state we were talking about in last episode, that connective state, when we connect to our values and our principles, when we are tuning into what is most meaningful and purposeful for us, one, to be able to do that very often we need support systems to be able to help us tune in. Not always but the possibility, the importance of that, the practice of that. Very often we need people around us that can let us know it's possible and then also create a runway on how we might connect to that in a better way. How we get clarity on that and that elicits that state. It's one of the things that elicits that connective state, which like we talked about in last episode, you want to revisit this piece.
(07:07):
We get that part of the brain online, the prefrontal cortex, also the social engagement system, which is the prerequisite for us being able to fire and wire new neurons, new behaviors, new habits. So in that there, I also love your sharing of coaches are there to be able to stretch and develop skills through habits absolutely necessary. And also if we're looking at internal awareness, we do need to understand the why of what's there first, get us to a baseline of safety and stability so we can engage with a coach or engage in practices too, and we kind of toggle between those. It's really important that we have both available. So your question around strategies to be able to support and help, it's really going to depend at a particular time what the greatest need is. So I'll share more on this. If for instance, you haven't quite had an opportunity yet to tune in and understand some of the mechanisms behind the why of certain behaviors, certain habits, certain emotional challenges or resistances haven't had any chance to do that, which is fewer people these days I think because we just have availability things, which is so great, but if you haven't had a chance to explore some of those, that might be a great start point can be really, really helpful.
(08:27):
That being said, if you are across some of those things and you've started to notice maybe little ritual behaviors or resistances or that thing, I always intend to do one thing, it always seems to go the other way and I think it's because of X, Y, and Z. That's more common these days can be a really great place to start to practice different habits that build skills. Skills are bodies of work. They are practices of a whole bunch of habits put together. So an example of that, Michelle, is squatting is a skill. It's not a habit. A habit might be setting your alarm, having a stuff ready the day before, getting into the gym, doing the warmup, doing the breaths, doing the warmup set. These are tiny little habits that accumulate to the skill of squatting, which is more complex. So when working with a coach, we want the prerequisites of being able to be just self-aware enough, but then in supporting our ability to grow and get better, we do want to have an opportunity to practice things that are a little bit more challenging, guaranteed they're going to be uncomfortable just by default because they're new and novel and not very efficient in the system.
(09:42):
We're kind of fumbling around and uncertain and it feels yuck, right? Our nervous system doesn't want to feel that way, so it moves away from it. So in that third space between where we are now, where a system is now, where our skill level is now and where we want to go and the skills that we need to execute over time to be able to achieve that, there's a lot of discomfort and a lot of steps in between and in that discomfort. So this is assuming we're in to whatever extent is needed, that second connective state, how do we hold ourselves moment to moment, day to day, week to week in those little practices of uncertainty, tension, challenge, resistance. We know little things add up to very big things and it is absolutely those tiny moments. So I want to zoom us in to go, how do we hold and support and create just enough safety, safe enough when things are uncomfortable for us to engage in the practice that might be uncomfortable, just safe enough is what we're aiming for. I want to check with you, Michelle, if you want to share anything on that, we can keep talking a little bit more in a
Michelle MacDonald (10:51):
No, I'm wondering how you're going to do this magic. I'm like, okay, all right. Let's see. Tell us more, Michelle.
Michelle Baty (10:58):
Yeah, what's safe enough? How achieve what safe,
Michelle MacDonald (11:01):
Right? I'm figuring a beginner trying to squat or trying to meal prep with the kids and the husband and all of that, and how do we create that safe space?
Michelle Baty (11:11):
Totally. And there's so many different ways to do it. An example, I can give some examples, but then I'll zoom out and speak conceptually, which will allow us to apply to anything, but I know examples can be really helpful. So an example of lowest hanging fruit. That's really common in coaching, which is we're not trying to do everything all at once. In fact, trying to do everything all at once is going to be counterproductive because we don't really do any of it very well. That one's super common. So we pick the easiest, most accessible habit that is available to us. We do it as well as we can with whatever limited capacity we have, and then once we get better at it, we're pick the next lowest hanging fruit, which is not super complex and advanced. Our lives are already that. We pick the next one and then we're going to compound and layer upon and layer upon.
(12:02):
So that's a really clear example of if your coach recommends lowest hanging fruit, I know you want to do the fancy stuff, but an actual fact we're going to start with this base thing. Best bang for buck. If you were going to pick one or two things daily or weekly that would give you the best possible result and not overload your system. We want to pick these two things and we want to do it as well as we can, and just right now, forget everything else. That's an example of safe enough in the nervous system.
Michelle MacDonald (12:32):
Why? It sounds like you have to be able to, again, there's almost self-awareness there or you're working with somebody who's able to assess where you're actually at and choose for you it sounds like.
Michelle Baty (12:43):
Totally, totally. The first is it's not too much, it's not too soon and it's not for too long, right? It's simple enough, it's achievable enough on your worst day, especially if you're a beginner, if it's only achievable on your best day, you're probably moving into that territory where your system's going to divert, shut down, and you're going to struggle, right? Lowest hanging fruit, that concept, make sure it's achievable and do it as well as you can. So in that, when we speak to self-awareness, do we need self-awareness for that? Yes. And also self-awareness is built when we are in relationship where people can reflect things back to us. I know that at times there's a bit of dialogue out in the world that says self-love, take care of yourself first. Build your own awareness first. However, and I think it's a great concept. However, when we are born into the world, if we do not have contact with a caregiver or support and help, we will not survive our identity, our ability to regulate our body temperature, our ability to regulate our responses to the world, how we learn language, how we move mathematics.
(13:50):
Then writing then more complex skills as we grow older and older and older only exists when we are in contact with other sentient beings that can help us make sense of what we are experiencing. And in the absence of that, we are surrounded by our own ideas, four walls with our own ideas circling round and round and round and round, and it tends not to be very constructive. We might be able to get some work there if we're listening to some things and reading some things, but that face-to-face contact or one-to-one contact, I love the digital world. We have access to so many resources that we didn't use to that might not be in our local suburb. I love it, but in that environment we are able to build, so the expectation that we know what the lowest hanging fruit is in this case, well, why would you, right?
(14:41):
If you're not a coach and you haven't studied all these years and you haven't had a mentor and you're brand new, the expectation that you're going to know this stuff, it's not quite fair. It doesn't make sense that you would know something that you just simply haven't had an opportunity to learn. So if even for a short time, I'm such an advocate for coaching and mentoring and I've done a lot of work training with psychologists and I always recommend that they might get a coach and then coaches get a psychologist, and I think they should just swap industries and swap services. But any interaction with a very skilled coach that understands the methodology, the periodization understands very acutely what lowest hanging fruit is unique to how much load that person is under and what their stress levels are and is able to tinker with that.
(15:28):
That's how the human being or the client on the other end, that's how they build, which is, oh, I thought this really complex thing was going to be better. It looks fancier and that person got a result and my coach is telling me to do this really simple thing that's like boring and I don't think it's going to do anything. And we learn in those cycles. If we have just enough safety and just enough trust and we notice the result that increases over time and we've done the old thing and it doesn't work, that's where we build that learning cycle, which is, oh shoot, I think my coach was maybe right. That's a hard pill to swallow, but also I'm now equipped with the tool to be able to know better next time as well, and we're going to have multiple loops and multiple iterations on this.
(16:09):
So that's an example there, Michelle, bringing back to the question of how do we practice things that are safe enough, lowest hanging fruit is one example. It may also be that we're in a season of very high stress, or it may be that we have been unwell, for instance, in a smaller pocket, maybe we're sick, we're going to pull back any extras, we're going to pull back complexity as best we can and again, move to what is the most beneficial thing that we could do and we're going to leave the rest and then we build from there. I do a lot of work with athletes post comp. We've got some really cool programs coming out later this year in post comp and the importance of being able to bring in resources specifically for that time where the nervous system is so vulnerable and it's okay for short periods, but how do we restore in all of the different ways that the nervous system might need? So in periods like that, seasons of stress, or in this case seasons of high allostatic load, how do we fill in? How do we resource to be able to come back to homeostasis? Yeah, let's check how this is feeling.
Michelle MacDonald (17:19):
Yeah. Okay, so just to again, reiterate for everyone listening, it sounds like what you're saying is when, and maybe I'm getting this mixed up, but when you are in more of a protective state or you have a very high allo load and you're wanting to learn a skill, going for that lowest hanging fruit, maybe thinking of it in terms of get the basics down and then start stacking winds on top of that. So being a bit more strategic, be where you are now and learn the foundations and then slowly but surely stack up those wins and scale to more technical or more challenging or more involved processes or skills. And then another way of addressing having that high allostatic load is by really looking at your total resources and choosing to kind of refill your cup. Maybe I got that one wrong, but I'm thinking of the post post-show and that's being depleted and people want to, they're so worried about weight gain or whatever, or maybe they walk away from everything, which also can be not a great choice for people. Definitely. And so you've got to refill that cup and you've got to get back to a ground zero. I don't know.
Michelle Baty (18:44):
Yeah, that's spot on. Michelle. What's so interesting in the health and wellness and fitness industry, if we can kind of clump them together is a lot of the prescriptions are for coaches that are very skilled and duty of care and are taking the best care of their clients, which isn't always the case, but I'm going to assume that we're speaking about coaches that know what they're doing, have their clients' best interest at heart, a high number of the prescriptions that are being given, which is a periodization of programs, how much food they're eating, getting your food up before you go into a deficit, building as much muscle as you can, getting as much sleep as you can, making sure that you've got a supportive environment. That's why communities when engaging in the practice of habits that support goals, it's just hard. It's hard to stay with because life is totally bonkers and it's going to distract you a million times a day or it's just tough to be able to stay with.
(19:42):
It's why all of these components of good prescription from a good coach exist. And it may not be that that coach is trained in neuropsychology, but they know for certain that when we bring food up, the system is more resourced and it's going to be more prepared to meet demand over let's say a prep season, right? You're going to have more stores there, your body's going to be in a better position to be able to do that, whereas maybe a coach that isn't as skilled or perhaps doesn't have a client's best interest in mind, it may be that calories go so low for so long and they're cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting. What may show up there is something like peds to try and compensate for that, which is hugely problematic for whole variety of reasons.
Michelle MacDonald (20:29):
So just those people that don't know what a PED is, it's a performance enhancing drug. So that's what Michelle's referring to.
Michelle Baty (20:37):
So we see those cycles there in good coaching that is science backed, that is well placed specific to the client. It is not only more effective to be giving prescriptions like appropriate nutrition, sleep restoration, recovery, periodization of programming. It's not only more effective, but in speaking to the nervous system and regulation here that is keeping us in that second state where our nervous system is safe enough, it also elicits our ability to hardwire new firing and wiring together in the brain.
Michelle MacDonald (21:12):
So do you have another couple of skills that you would recommend that people really double down on that want to achieve more but want to be efficient really, and how they're achieving them and not constantly in this scramble and stuff's just not getting in?
Michelle Baty (21:27):
Yep. Two things that I think are the most important.
Michelle MacDonald (21:30):
Oh, I love two things. These are the two things everybody.
Michelle Baty (21:32):
All right, listen in. Usually it's going to be one thing, but we're going to go two things. Internal, external, internal, external. In light of Lois hanging fruit, if you were to do nothing else, it's going to be these two things. They will give you the best bang for buck. This is assuming you are in a space with a coach or a support system that has your best interest in mind. Okay, so number one is, and it sounds super simple, just notice, so what do we mean by this? Great example is if you are in the gym and let's say split squats is your favorite, least favorite move, it tends to be popular, not popular. You are on rep number nine of 12 or maybe 12 of 15 or three of five or whatever the prescription is, and you were teetering right at that edge. You're swearing in your head, you're just like, really This thing?
(22:27):
The best practice you can do to strengthen your neurological ability to stay in this connected state, which allows you to learn and integrate and repeat that behavior is to simply notice. So in that split squat or whatever move is your least favorite or favorite, we want to tune into the sensations that we're experiencing as best we can and just neutrally notice them. We might tune in and pick up. I just thought, I just swore in my head here. I just swore on my coach and my head here. It might be that you feel heat in a particular muscle, you might feel tension, you might feel movement, but we want to tune in and notice and what's happening there is our prefrontal cortex is sending signals down through our body and our body is sending signals back up to our prefrontal cortex. And this multi-way connection is one of the best possible ways to strengthen and widen our capacity to keep ourselves connected and online in high states of adrenaline.
Michelle MacDonald (23:36):
Brilliant.
Michelle Baty (23:36):
So when we say high states of adrenaline, we go when the stakes are high and when we are about to do the old thing because it's uncomfortable and our brainstem is like, don't worry about it, it's fine. Just we'll do it tomorrow. We'll do it tomorrow. That's one of those tension points and the neurological skill that allows us to do the new thing versus the old thing is the strength of those neurons. So being in the gym, practicing that noticing you are hard wiring that neurology together, what we practice in low stakes is going to show up in high stakes. It's going to become more accessible in the moments that you need it. That's the first thing I want to check to see how that feels. I
Michelle MacDonald (24:17):
Love that when we practice in low stakes, we're going to be able to access in high states. So what about music? I'm sure you get asked that question all the time. Does that mean I can't listen to my heavy metal or whatever?
Michelle Baty (24:30):
No. Listen to the music and you can notice that too. Oh good. Oh good. Right. Are there sensations on the inner ear that you notice when you're listening? Does it make your heartbeat differently? Does it change your posture? There is no condition where you cannot practice this. I will always recommend that you practice it in a space where you feel like if you enjoy training, that's a great start point. We want to start where it feels a little bit safer for us, but it might be noticing sound, noticing sensation, noticing, thought, noticing movement, noticing even what's happening around you, noticing your breath. It doesn't matter. We're just simply noticing it seems so simple.
Michelle MacDonald (25:10):
Well, it is, and I'm wondering, how do we do? We have to be accountable here because you might be thinking, I'm going to notice, and then you start working out and you've forgotten all about this crazy idea of noticing. How do you know if you got, people get amnesia all the time, and you know what I mean by amnesia? You start the day and I'm going to have a great day today, and at two o'clock you forgot everything, your intentions, your affirmations, you forgot them
Michelle Baty (25:32):
All. Totally. Just notice that. Isn't that interesting? I did that thing again, huh? Oh, I notice a voice that comes in that's giving me a hard time for that. Isn't that interesting? Oh, I noticed I'm tapping my foot because I'm kind of nervous about this now I'm going to have to tell my coach. Just notice that. Interesting. I notice I'm not wanting to check in with my coach or I'm wanting to get up from my desk right now. Just notice it's so excruciatingly challenging for the brain to wrap itself around this because we want to try and fix and we want to try and change, and that comes later in the practicing. In the second thing I'm going to introduce that's helpful, and yet it always all roads lead back to this one thing, which is to simply notice. Notice name, notice name. Really great Saint Dan Siegel who's one of, if you've heard of Dan Siegel before, his foremost leader in the area of neuropsychology, he coined the term name it to tame it, name it, to tame it.
(26:31):
We can't name something we don't know. Something exists if we don't notice it in the first place. So this deep curiosity, not with the intent of shifting and changing, that can come later when learn the skills, when we've got the support. But it all starts with simply noticing. We can practice this with mind to muscle connection. That as a start, which a lot of us are practicing already, we double, triple, quadruple down on that and then that skill, the neurological skill, we can extrapolate that we start to be able to practice it more readily in other areas where we might otherwise experience amnesia. As you say, it starts to spill over. So that's the first thing, Michelle, which is just notice sensation, especially
Michelle MacDonald (27:12):
At the gym where you get more kind of bang for buck for noticing because you've got this communication highway between your central brain and the rest of your body, your peripheral nervous system.
Michelle Baty (27:24):
Yeah,
Michelle MacDonald (27:25):
Alright,
Michelle Baty (27:25):
It's a great container. Mindful eating, same thing, listening to music doesn't matter. Just notice. The second thing is, which is if we are noticing and we are picking some things up, what we want to aim to do is in that connective state, ensure that we are naming and engaging and sharing with a person, place, or space that has the skill and the ability to support us in practicing some new habits to shift and change something. So we don't jump from noticing to fix, we go first. We notice and develop that neurological skill as best we can, as often as we can. It won't be perfect, I promise. We're human. Then the piece is who is the person, what is the place, what is the space that has the skill to help me understand what we do next? So going to a coach and saying, Hey coach, I notice this thing.
(28:23):
I notice myself do this thing again. I notice myself give myself a hard time. I just noticed these things. What is your sense on what comes next? That kind of engagement is the birthplace for someone to come back and go, why don't we practice lowest hanging fruit if nothing else, let's do this thing together, practice these habits. We're going to check in again, we're going to build the skill. Then we repeat it. I notice this thing, I name it to my coach, I get some practices, lowest hanging fruit. Then we come back round, I notice this thing, I name it to my coach. We practice some things, we come back round. This is what we call a positive feedback loop. It also when we start to see progress increases dopamine in the system, we are more likely to engage in those behaviors, but also everything that we practice after that, so long as we have a well-skilled coach is going to move us towards increasing practice of the behaviors that allow us to hit our goals.
(29:23):
So the takeaway message is this. First we notice it in our system and we build that skill next we name it to a coach or someone who is skilled enough to help us with what we might practice next time instead. And we do that over and over and over. It is not something you can win at ever. You can't win at skill development. You can grow, you can improve, you can compound, you can layer, but you can't win at it. It is a practice forever. You can have seasons that go up and down. If we were to simplify it, notice internally, name it to a coach, practice the new thing round and round.
Michelle MacDonald (30:06):
It's all very karate kid. I think we want to get all the skills and we want to get to the height of the summit of the mountain as quickly as possible. And it can be a bit of a kind of letdown almost like, oh, we really, we've got to go step by step brick by brick. It's like, yeah, that's how we have to go. But time passes fast when you get into that flow state and you get out of your way. And we have a program wrapping up in the next couple of weeks and I was on, we share collages on every Sunday, Saturday and Sunday and I was on there and it's just like, wow. Far out. Every time we get to the end of these programs, it's just wild. The changes and of course the picture speak of a thousand words. So we see the visuals and that they're jaw dropping, but it's the sharing that you read both in the comment section when people are cheering each other on, but also in the reflections with people with their post-op.
(31:00):
What was their challenge that week? What are they learning? What are they most proud of? What do they want to accomplish next? All of that conversation is incredible. And one of the things I told the girls on the last call that we had, I said, listen, believe it or not, trust me. I know you guys trust me. Believe it or not, where you are now, which is absolutely amazing and it's beyond your wildest dreams and all of that from where you were August 25th, which was the day before the program started, August 26th with the start date, August 25th, who you are now was a wild dream beyond your imagination and you were trepidatious. I don't know what's going to work for me. I've tried a million dials, I'm too old, it's not going to work. I know it. I'm a special snowflake for whom the size won't work.
(31:41):
But here you are now going, oh my god, right? And yet, and yet, trust me on this, look at my mom. She's in year eight, right? If you just keep going with these habits and right now right here, these habits are ingrained and you've got better health, better outcomes, better than you've ever had before. So it should be easier os sensibly if you just keep going with these things that are easier, right? A year from now, this will be your next before picture. And isn't that crazy? Isn't that wild that this amazing outcome is going to one day be a before picture because you're going to have progressed and scaled from this foundation you built. Isn't that wild? You just have to keep going.
Michelle Baty (32:28):
Sign me up.
Michelle MacDonald (32:31):
I just love that. And everything that you're saying is amazing and I know we want all these things now, but slower is faster and going brick by brick is incredible. I do want to talk about procrastination. If you can spare me that time, I'd love to pick your brains on that. It comes up a lot. And the other thing is this piece on self-awareness and when you've passed your limit, you've passed that allostatic load and you've passed your limit, how can you pull yourself back? Can we talk about those two? Procrastination? It's a big one. I think gals get so overwhelmed and they just start things. Electricity start sputtering. Go ahead,
Michelle Baty (33:16):
Love that description. Electricity starts. S spattering. I have never heard a better description to that. Procrastination is a big one. Procrastination is a big one. It's ultimately a super collision of different reflexive behaviors pulling us in all of the directions and therefore we move in none of the directions. One part of us is saying, do the thing you must do the thing you should do the thing. Another is saying, gosh, I'm tired and I'm always doing things. And now just another thing, another part of us is saying, well, maybe I'll just rest first because I could get the energy to then do the thing and it's well intended. The other is going, someone's watching you see you've done this before and you've failed before and you're doing that thing again. And another one goes, you know what? Screw everything. This is just a lot just on, put it on the shelf, just pause. There's procrastination. And it can be hard if we don't have the neurological spirit to just notice. And
Michelle MacDonald (34:17):
What was that other thing too? There's this other thing we often, how many people are listening going and are going to agree with me? You make a mountain out of a mole hill and there's this important thing that you have to do, but in your mind you've created this story that it's so hard and so terrible and how many of us have done the thing and just went, oh my god, that took me three minutes. Why did I procrastinate? And it's a really important thing. I had to pitch that one in there because that's a big one for a lot of people. I'm like, it's just this little thing you got to do. It's not a big deal. I coach myself through that. Michelle, do this little thing.
Michelle Baty (34:50):
So normal. So normal. And that's the internal experience. That's a symptom of that first date we were talking about, which is not necessarily relative to what the actual thing is, whatever, making this call or doing the laundry or picking this thing up or filling in this survey or whatever it is, it might be something small, but the internal experience of there's that term allostatic load means that we're already at capacity and one more little thing feels like the weight of the world. What that indicates is it's a symptom of being in that first state, that reflexive state where the system's like I don't have the resources to organize and prioritize and I'm not sure and everything feels and I just need to know what the lowest hanging fruit is. But I don't know how to figure that out. That's first being able to notice. It's where the second component comes in where you go, Hey coach, this is what's been going on.
(35:51):
And the coach goes, you know what? Forget these things. Just these two things, that's it. Does it feel like that's available? We can practice it in this way. We'll check in this time. And suddenly stakes are lower. That resistance and that procrastination cluster feels more organized, a lot clearer because the perceived demand that's there and the confusion that comes from that starts to reduce. We've got those really strong resources first noticing then checking in. Someone helps us clarify, settle, make sense of things, and it becomes readily accessible, becomes available. We might engage in it in a either better way or more frequent way. It doesn't always land that way. And at the same time, the first way always gets stuck. The second way has huge possibility to be able to support, especially if you're working with a coach or a support space that's very skilled and knowing how to deescalate these things. So I want to normalize procrastination. You are not crazy, you are not lazy. Your nervous system is overwhelmed. And also it doesn't have to be that way with some really simple tools and practices. Just notice safe spaces, social skills, support. It is incredible how much progress we can get, how consistent we can be when we have those support networks in place. It's not just on us
Michelle MacDonald (37:17):
Now, but what about, I'm going to say a but here as a coach, because obviously I have a wide variety of clientele that I work with and of course there's the people that actually do have so much going on. And one of the things we coach our coaches is take something off their plate, take away complexity in their diet, reduce complexity in their training, reduce tempo, reduce complexity. If somebody's got a lot going on, maybe they've got illness in the family or something, but then there's that other segment of the population where there's not an improvement. And if you take something off the plate, then that becomes their new norm. And so you go from five training days to four training days to three training days and then it's like, oh my god, you can't even do three training days. Okay, something else is going on here, right? There's something else at play.
Michelle Baty (38:11):
And again, why I love this work is the overall umbrella and the macro lens. It may be that we've got parts of ourselves zooming into this particular vacuum and this container of training and nutrition in these practices, but the nervous system doesn't know what those things are. It is picking up energetic rhythms. It's picking up every single piece of information. It is filtering that information through every memory, conscious and unconscious you have ever had. It is anticipating every future possible scenario that might come into play. And it's doing this every moment of every day while keeping our heart beating, our lungs breathing. And nobody asked it to do that. It's just doing it for us without any request. Alright? So in those pieces where we start to deload and pull some things away, it may be that it's a very long history of high allostatic load where if we change one little thing, it may not be enough and important that we zoom out and look at the whole picture, relational rhythms, what's happening in the workspace, what's happening with space for play and creativity.
(39:23):
It also may be that that's an environment to start working with someone to help regulate the nervous system like psychologist or a mentor in that area too as a supplement to be able to support. So as always, it's this fine balance of identifying if we pull some things back and we don't see an improvement, we just get curious and we notice that and then start to identify are there some other things at play? Do we want to refer out? Are there some other elements that we can add in or replace that might support better? Just going through that problem solving. And it can be tricky at times when you've had decades of high allostatic load. It may not be as simple as one thing. And yet if we can notice and we can name and we're in spaces that have our best interests at heart and can support us, we have the best possible chance of being able to identify the things that will be helpful
Michelle MacDonald (40:21):
For those that are listening. Is there a book that people can read or do you have some stuff that there other people can tap into? Because I know people are going to get listen to this and think, I want to level up here. I want to get some support here.
Michelle Baty (40:37):
So if you are interested in learning and or developing the habits and skills of being able to hardwire that prefrontal cortex down through the body and backup to be able to understand the mechanisms of the nervous system, how that impacts your ability to regulate emotions, communicate, support yourself, the people you love and maybe your clients or in a workspace, you can always contact me directly. I hop on calls with everybody to make sure that things are very, very clear and we're helping in the best way. But the learning pathway called the art of noticing. The art of noticing is the company that I run. And that is a learning pathway to be able to support women like you and developing these skills. So of course if you're interested, you can reach out to me directly on Instagram. That's the best way I quickly move over to is the best way. I
Michelle MacDonald (41:30):
Get atest to that.
Michelle Baty (41:32):
Yeah, yeah. I quickly move over into a different format, but if you are interested or curious, please reach out. It's not for everyone. And at the same time, if you are noticing that pulling some things back with intention of improvement, it's not quite improving in the way that you thought it might be an avenue at the very least, some suggestions on resources or supports that might help instead doesn't have to be with me. There's some really cool spaces out there too. So that'd be the first thing. The second is for anyone wanting to learn just a little bit more about neuroscience, my very favorite book, it's also a very safe book to read for nervous systems. Most mindful of what I recommend is a book called Mind Site by Dan Siegel mind site that I love the audio book. I love listening to his voice on that. But number one, recommendation helps inform different structures of the brain, the impact that has on a relation relational rhythms as well. So I might recommend that piece. If we've got some readers out there, reach out to me directly on my Instagram, Michelle Baty,
Michelle MacDonald (42:33):
Beautiful. Before we wrap up, and I know I've had you on here for a long time, but I'm curious, you didn't talk about breath and for me it was I think what really helped me overcome my eating disorder and my much more frenzied way of being in the world, that's what I called my youth, was being very frenzied and unable to really auto-regulate at critical moments and the breath helped me. So I'm curious, you didn't talk about that. Was there a reason for that?
Michelle Baty (43:06):
Yeah, breath is such a powerful tool and also when looking at the best possible tools for unique nervous systems, we always want to start with the thing that is safest and most attractive to that person. So maybe that it's breath for some it may be that breath doesn't quite feel safe enough for some, but there might be something else. It might be movement, it might be getting in water, it might be sunshine, it might be being with a puppy dog. Animals are amazing to regulate our nervous system. It may be in the gym. It literally doesn't matter what the thing is. The most important thing is that it feels safe enough and it's something that we not enjoy doing, but something that we lean into. So whenever working with clients instead of prescribing something in particular, I'll always get curious on what is something that you found is helpful already that you're already doing that brings your system down a little. That's a thing that we want to practice and notice it's already established. There's already neurons there.
Michelle MacDonald (44:09):
And maybe even layering things too, depending on where I am in my state. And I think that's where the self-awareness comes in. But I might be, it might be posture, relaxing, tension, half smiling, I smile a lot. It's an antidote to, I'm like, okay, to smile whistle while you work. I might yodel like I might sing or something. I mean that's very rare, but just a big strong outburst to just like, it's very cathartic. So layering on as well is something that I tend to do.
Michelle Baty (44:42):
Yeah, breath can be incredibly powerful. We know that it packs the parasympathetic nervous system in such phenomenal ways. And also sometimes nervous systems might feel that it's not quite safe to tune into sensations around that. So I'm always very open and very flexible like meditation, credible tool. And also if we're new to tuning in and noticing, we may notice at the start or at times it amplifies feelings of tension versus calming. So I always keep it very open to go, what's the thing you're already doing? Lowest hanging fruit, there are already neurons there. Maybe it is breath, maybe it is meditation, maybe it's something else. Nervous system doesn't know what these things are. For me, Michelle has been voice, which also is, I did a lot of public speaking from the time I was very, very little high level competition. My dad was my coach, I love it.
(45:36):
But just the rhythm and vibration of voice is incredibly regulating for my system versus breath or meditation, do those things too. But that is the one go-to, I will know where my system is at based on my voice and I can shift and change it. And that also shifts and changes my state. So in that, I want to encourage anyone that's leaning into tools that might help and support, find the thing you're already doing that you're most likely to do. That's already very helpful. Get really curious about that. Double down notice in that block or in that container might be movement in the gym, might be breath, might be meditation, might be something else. It doesn't matter. It's got to be unique to you. So I love breath Michelle. And also I got to do my duty of care to go. We trust the system. It will know.
Michelle MacDonald (46:25):
It will know. Yeah, the nervous system is never wrong. I love that. Thank you so much. I mean, we're just scratching the surface here and you're an incredible speaker. I just am completely, I'm completely sold and I want to have you on the podcast multiple times. Thank you so much for being here all the way from Australia. I guess it's your morning and have a wonderful day and I hope to have you back on the show soon. Michelle, thank you so much.
Michelle Baty (46:53):
Thanks Michelle. I hope to come back. I hope there was something in there that was helpful. I'm, there's lot in
Michelle MacDonald (46:57):
There, lots of gold.
Michelle Baty (46:59):
I'm wishing everyone in the programs, the transformation experience or if you're out there working to achieve a goal yourself listening to this podcast and wishing you the absolute best. There are people out there doing the same, working at the same things and struggling and wrestling with the same things. And we are with you in that. I wish you the very best.
Michelle MacDonald (47:20):
Thank you. Michelle Baty has given us so much to think about, but here are my top three takeaways from today's episode one, noticing is the first step Before we can change anything, we have to build a skill of simply noticing our thoughts, habits, and reactions without judgment. Two, safe social support is key. Growth happens faster when we have the right people guiding us, whether it's a coach, a mentor, or a strong community. Three progress comes from small, consistent wins. Instead of trying to overhaul everything at once, start with the lowest hanging fruit and build momentum from there. I hope you found this as valuable as I did. If you love this conversation, be sure to check out Michelle Baty's work and reach out to her directly. Until next time, keep building, keep learning and we'll see you soon.