¶ Meeting Domingo Zapata
That is that guest . Well , he actually really , really lives it . I'm sitting down with domingo zapata and he's one of the most in-demand artists on the planet . His paintings hang in the homes of johnny depp , leonardo dicaprio , and he's even painted with the pope . But it didn't start with fame and a million pound canvas for this guy .
This is a guy who once couldn't even afford a slice of pizza , a guy who painted out of raw emotion , not for profit , and someone who built his career not by chasing money but by staying obsessively committed to his vision . We talk about everything from the value of self-belief and creative discipline to building emotional connection through your work .
He's turned his pain into pop art , his struggle into storytelling and his name into a global brand . If you're a creative , a founder or just someone who wants to build something real in a noisy world , then this one's for you . Domingo drops wisdom told you I just can't paint . I can't paint it . My life depends .
I can't draw , I can't do anything , and you said in three days you'd be able to teach me to be able to paint a dog , as if it looked like a picture . Like a picture . Yeah . People often say to me you know , or people often talk about .
Anyone can be an entrepreneur , anyone can be a business owner , and I disagree with that , you know , because you know there's certain characters . People can learn many skills , but there's some things that people just aren't made to be .
But I mean , like when you say , within three days you can paint a dog like a picture , you almost make me think anyone can be an artist . But do you agree with that ?
Everybody can paint a dog that looks like a dog .
How is that different to being an artist ?
Well , because being an artist is about painting what you feel , not what you see . So for me , your dog has more value than you know an imperialistic dog . If I want to take a painting that looks like a photograph , I might just get the photograph . When I take a painting , I want to feel something . It's organic , it's alive , it changes every day .
¶ What Makes Someone an Artist
Light makes a change , life makes a change . I don't know how to make this world a better place , but I think I know how to make it a beautiful place for the people that can make it better . So that's my opinion . So , yeah , I can teach you how to cook , but why . A chef can make something magical and you take the recipe and you can't .
It's not about the recipe , it's about the touch .
And I mean speaking to you and speaking to so many artists . You know they talk about the fact that it's not for the money , it's for the love and loving everything and the do . But I think people listening to that would also say that it's easy for you to say that when you get paid so much for doing what you love yeah , I would like to take them to .
When I lived in the bronx in um bombette with another three people for a couple years , when I started ,
¶ The Struggle Before Success
I would like to go to the day when I had to go , wait for a pizza place to shut down so that I could get free pizza . That's where I could eat . It's not that easy , man . It takes . Like you said to me , how long did it take you to make that painting ?
I said 25 years , because you know this is today and I say , hey , go ahead and do it , but it's not an easy road . It's not an easy road . It takes a lot of effort , a lot of discipline , a lot of hours , I a lot of hours . I didn't have a Cosmopolitan at 12 for the last 25 years , meaning you know it didn't start like that and did you ?
This is only a few years ago that you get to enjoy what you're doing , your moment and your hard work .
When you were living with those three guys and you know you couldn't afford to eat a pizza , did you see success in your future ? Did you ever think there was a big money end , or did you just love what you were ?
doing and you didn't give a . Well , you know what I mean . I . I think that that you , just I mean you dream , you have dreams and then when you dream , you want to make your dreams come true . So , of course , I was . I still have dreams , you know , thank god , I do . What's it ? What do you dream about ?
Now , I cannot tell you , you know , but I do have a lot of dreams , but it's life is about progress . You know , life is about growth and and find yourself in challenges that you change things so that you make them more difficult , so you can , you know , get out of the box and create all the things .
That's my obligation as an artist is to continue doing that , not being in the stability of the money and the . That's not . I don't do it for that , you know , I never did it . For that I am very happy that I get to enjoy , while I'm alive , you know , the profits of my hard work . However , as an artist , it doesn't . You don't .
You're not a better artist because you get paid . You're not going to be a better artist because you get paid more than others . You know , I think the best artists probably are not recognized , unfortunately .
I mean , is it just brand and publicity that gets people paid ? Because I mean , I have , have . I have a terrible eye and you know , I guess , to my naked , non-artist eye . I look at many artists nowadays and say , well , I can't really tell the difference between him and him who you know . They have a similar style .
That's five hundred dollars and that's five million dollars . It Is the difference , just brand .
Well , I mean , let's talk about this
¶ Art, Value, and Investment
Now . Do you know what the difference is ? And you're an investment guy , so the difference is collateral damage . Now , if you buy a painting that is $500 , that is not going anywhere , that you don't like , that you buy just because it's cheap , well then you get what you buy .
If you buy a painting by Picasso that is $50 million , you not only have a piece of history , but you have value . Safety . That's the difference . So what gives you safety ? The trajectory , marketing , is bullshit . Marketing doesn't make people buy paintings for $ million dollars or 10 million or 50 million .
Marketing puts your name out there to be evaluated as anything . But if you put marketing , people are gonna give you a billion dollars just because of your marketing . No , but they might give you half a million to start and then , if you're good , they'll give you everything else that they find is okay . It's just the same . This you know .
Safety is that you have a trajectory that is giving you that . Safety is that you love the painting and you're going to enjoy it and you don't care about the money , because I always say to people but you think it's a good investment . I'm like I thought you were a businessman making a lot of money . Make money in your business .
Don't try to make money on these paintings . These paintings should give you the return on experience , the return on love , the return on safety , the return on love , the return on safety , the return on . You know a passion and you know the return investment . Do it at home , with your , at your office , with your business .
I mean , I've always done that when I you know , and I know nothing about art other than what I like . I was telling you a minute ago that you know , I , over the years I've bought a lot of La Chapelle . I've bought a lot of Gavin Bond and listen , I can understand from the dealers . I can look on Artnet , I can see where some investment value should be .
But I always take the view look , if I lose the money , then am I going to enjoy that on my wall .
And I think that's Gavin Bond pictures of girls in underwear . Listen , I'm going to fucking love that all day long .
I wish it was worth 50k and not the 10k I paid or whatever the figure was .
But if it's worth nothing , then you know at least you're enjoying , and that's the thing that you got to look at when you're buying art right now from a contemporary artist like me that is alive .
You want to make an investment , then go to Goldman Sachs and buy an art investment fund and you have Picasso , ali Ceslebi , foucault , warhol and all these guys and you are invested to make money . But you might as well just invest in something else . If you want to buy a painting and you're not into what are you going to do ?
Trade paintings Now , at the end , the pleasure is to own it , to have it , but also to know that your value of that painting is an asset that has a history . But obviously I mentioned brand and that's very important .
I mentioned brand and just the thing , because wine , I mean , I would consider wine almost in the art class . You know the kind of wines that we drink . A week or two ago , I was with an investor of mine and we drank a bottle of Screaming Eagle . You know Screaming Eagle ? Yeah , it's only the second bottle I've ever drunk of it . Did I love it ?
Yeah , I loved it . Yeah , do I think ? It's probably 10 times more expensive than this Vagas .
Oh yeah , of course .
Do ? I think it's 10 times better than this ? Not at all . I mean , like to me , we're at a level where they're all amazing wines . I'd rather talk about the fact that I've had a great day with you today drinking this and having fun . That's more important than saying , oh , I drank the Screaming Eagle . It's $3,000 , $4,000 a bottle . You know what I mean .
A bottle , you know ? I mean I guess branding does come into play at some point yeah , of course , of course it does .
but you know , I mean , they don't produce many bottles , they're not everywhere . It's more exclusive . This you know . I mean I think in in these things you don't need to concentrate
¶ The True Worth of Luxury Items
at all in what they cost . I go to certain restaurants and I don't care about the bill , I just want to have the experience . So when you start valuing wine , this okay , you can find wines that are 10 euro , that are amazing , incredible . When you drink a hominic on tea , that is 70,000 euro bottle , okay , then what are you really drinking ?
You're drinking history , because that's from Roman times . So these winters are so old that the root is down into the minerals . Everything that is absorbed is so incredible and it's so small that the production is very minimal and is amazing . Now , 200 meters from it , you have other , but they don't have 2,000 years history , they're not deep in there .
So this is what you're paying . You're paying history . You're paying something that almost nobody in the world can have . You're enjoying that experience . You are getting return on experience , again , not an investment . So if you take away the value of things like that , then maybe you will like that wine . But you're saying , is this worth 3,000 euros ? Fuck .
No , but you're just thinking about the money . Now just close your eyes and just drink it and then be like fuck . And then they tell you , oh , it has 2,000 years of history . And then you're like how fortunate I am to be alive and be able to taste this .
Hey , matt here . Thanks for listening to Stripping Off with Matt Haycox , but did you also know I've got another podcast , no Bollocks , with Matt Haycox . Both of these are very different .
If you're enjoying the deep dives with the guests that I have every week on Stripping Off , then you're going to love the quick , short business tips , strategies and tactics I give you on no Bollocks . This comes out nearly every day .
Make sure you go and check it out on iTunes , spotify , youtube , wherever you listen to your content , and I'll see you in a future episode . That's hard as well . No , I'm so with you . I mean , do you feel the same logic with many luxury items ? I mean , obviously , I've noticed your watch when we came in .
I mean , you know the , the rarest of rare pateks . You know , yeah , I , I , I love pateks . I've , you know , had various pateks over the years and it's funny . You know people , I know so many people that go patek patek .
But I think the reason you like it is because it sells in the aftermarket , for , you know , for more than it sells at retail , would you ? Would you ? I'm not saying I , I'm not saying I'm that person , but all these people that love it , you love it because you can buy it in the store for 45k .
If you could buy it in the store for 45k and it sells for 150k , or it's 200k and it sells for a million , that's why you love it . If I told you you buy it in the store for 200k and tomorrow it's worth 70k , do you love it so much ? Or all of a sudden , the arm goes out the window , you know I'll tell you what .
I got this as a as as the . It was $55,000 . Right , you know . But when I got this I didn't know that it would be worth three , four million . So I got it because I loved it and I had an opportunity to get it . So I bought it . But not knowing what's going to happen to this watch Now , I would never sell it .
Even if they gave me 4 million , why would I sell it ? I love it . My business is not selling watches , my business is creating beautiful art . So that's what I mean . I , when I got it , I threw an opportunity because I love the Tiffany color and I had the Rolex that is Tiffany and I collect .
Like I said , I collect art , I collect watches and I like to have it . Art . I collect watches and I like to have it . But I will never sell anything that I collect . What other watches do you like ? You know , I like Rolex , I like Fatech , I like Richard Mille , I like everything , man , I like anything .
And by saying that I love the Omega swatch , you know that they made I . You know about the moon and this . There's so many things that I . It depends on what cuts your eye , but I never consider price . If I like something , I say can I afford it ?
Okay , if I can afford it , then I'm going to buy it , but never thinking about the value , but never thinking about the value , only how . What does it take for me to get something
¶ Setting Prices and Avoiding Mistakes
that I love ? That , I think , is going to make me feel better , because if I this , you have a watch and you can have a sword , any watch , an Apple watch , and it's going to give you the time . But when I look at my watch , I look about my life , my success .
It encourages me , it challenges me to keep doing things , because I'm like , oh , I come from this humble background and look what I got and this reminds me of where I am . It makes me feel good For me , only for me .
Looking at it the other way around . When you sell a painting for a million dollars 500,000 , you know , when you told me earlier you sold a painting for two million dollars oh , no one , A lot . Oh , okay , do you ? I mean , do you look back at yourself and think , fuck , I was that guy that couldn't afford a pizza .
I've just sold a painting for two million . Or if that same guy offered you said to you , I'm not going to pay you two million because you talk about it being for love , if he said to you I'm not going to pay you two million , I'm going to pay you a million , do you still sell it ?
Or do you also have the finance and the science as well , as you are ?
So well , listen , I can sell it for two million so you're paying that two million , like I mean , these special paintings are expensive and you have to respect the price because you respect the people that bought it , you know . So you can't just you know , just think of it .
You cannot , just , you know , change the prices because you like someone , because this that At the end I normally give people that start at the very beginning . I'm like , if you're going to start a collection , then on the first painting I'll give you a discount , but from there on , the price is the price . So we do like and how does the price work ?
It changes every year . It changes with the season Again it depends on the demand .
You know , if I get 2,000 calls to buy paintings tomorrow , then I'm not going to sell them . Yeah , you know , then I'm not gonna sell them . Yeah , you know , I'm gonna . Okay , wait a minute . What have I done so that this is happening ? And so it's about offer and demand , like like everything .
You know , maybe nobody wants my paintings next year , maybe something happens , and you know , and it's over . Then , you know , the prices go down . There's no demand . It's not about there's no demand . It's not about me . It's not about you putting the price or not . It's about what people are willing to pay .
So the same , if you know this rhino beautiful pink rhino is , nobody wants it in five years . Well , I think I might look for a new job , you know . But if every time somebody sees it wants it , well then you know , like everything value , you've got to get paid for that .
Have you made any what you would consider terrible career mistakes ? You know there's a particular painting , a particular situation .
No , I'm not very . You know what there's no mistakes . I'm a very . You know what there's no mistakes . I'm a very normal person at the end , considering everything that you see , but I cannot make a mistake . My only mistake would be to be lazy , not to paint or to drive myself into painting commercially and not exclusively . That would be a mistake .
To sell myself to merchandising , to sell myself to massive , do you think that ? Is a mistake , a huge mistake . Why ? Because you know the difference between a picture of that rhino you can take a picture now and the painting . You know the differences . One's real , one's not right . No one is a picture and one is a painting .
It's a real painting 150,000 euro . That's the difference . So you know , if you want to get the real thing , you have to pay for it . Like everything you want to buy a good watch , a good car , a good meal . You know you can get a grilled cheese sandwich . It can be shit and you can make a beautiful grilled cheese sandwich . That is amazing .
It's interesting what you say about you gotta pay for it . One's real one's not . So I , two or three years ago , I bought a Bored Ape . You know the NFT . Now I bought one . To be clear . If I could have chosen any Bored Ape of the 10,000 they made , it would have been that one .
It was , you know , it was smoking a cigar , it was wearing a jacket , it had a tattoo . It was , it was every , everything about me . Yes , I could have screenshotted and had exactly exactly the same thing on the wall , but I also know it wasn't . In the same way , I could have a fake attack , yeah , and and for me , a .
I knew it was what it was , but being it put me in that club . It put me with the other Bordeaux owners , you know , with the other Patek owners . It's about how you feel .
It's about how you feel . It's what I said . It's not about the price and the value . It's about how you feel when you love something , when something motivates you , when something makes you want to do more , create more .
That's what it is about that you feel okay , I did a good job , I came from here and I was able to achieve this beautiful piece of art that I love . At the end , that's what it is . You look at it and be proud of yourself .
I noticed Keith Richards on the wall . Obviously , we're drinking wine following our cosmopolitans
¶ Creativity Without Substances
at about 12 o'clock , one o'clock in the afternoon . A lot of the , a lot of the most famous , I'll say artists , but I typically talk about musicians , but I guess people in the creative space , a lot of the most creative people , are known for their chronic drug abuse , alcohol abuse , etc .
But these people also cite that as a reason for their creativity , for the reason of their success . You know , I mean I'm a big Guns N' Roses fan and they always talk about that . I know , axl , oh really , I've got tickets . Are you back next week ? Do you want to come with me next week to come and see Axl , maybe ?
So I mean , they talk about the best albums , the best songs . They made they talk about the fact that during their most fucked up drug abuse times they had the best creativity they made . They made the best stuff . How how much do you believe or can you relate ?
never , never . I I , you know what I don't drink when I paint normally , I mean , sometimes I get excited and then most likely I will delete what I did when I , you know , I think that for me the responsibility is so high that I cannot be high when I'm working .
However , I understand that in other , like in music and in other arts , you know , that can open For me . I was always , you know , I was never a big fan of getting fucked up . I like to . If I'm going to have fun , then I want to have fun and do something fun .
Go to a concert , go to this , you know , in New York , especially where you know the freedom is bigger . But for working , I like to stay focused and stay in my place .
And why are some of these people so successful in a state of being so focused ?
Well , I guess practice . Like Churchill said , I like to wake up early and paint and then do my job and express myself in that way , not saying that I haven't experimented with painting , you know , while I've been under an influence of a drug or whatever .
And it looks like one of my stick dogs .
No , no , no , no . I'm sure it probably looks great , but you know , I mean my discipline , and in this world you must have discipline . Maybe back in the day , 40 , 50 years ago , in the 70s , you know , they came from so much repression that you needed to open up , and all that For me , my life , considering the challenges that I've had .
But I've never had to experience what maybe artists in the 40s , during the Second World War , had to experience , or , you know , being exiled , forced to be exiled , forced to be in situations , abuse and immigrants , and we just saw the brutalists . And it tells so many stories about people that have struggled so much .
Fortunately for me , my career has been pretty straightforward . I've struggled , like everybody , you know , and I got to a point where I'm comfortable and then now I can experiment and do different things . But I'm 50 , so I'm not going to get fucked up to paint because it's too late and I have two kids and I have , you know , a wife .
That is , you know , like the policia the police . Where is she ? She's here . She is now here . She comes back and forth from Spain . So you know , I mean at the end when I work , but it's been like that all my life . I just kind of
¶ Meaningful Experiences and Connections
did it straight from my heart , without an intermediary . That's for work , now for fun . Let's just have fun this summer in Mallorca . Cheers , let's have fun . It was a pleasure to meet you .
No , listen , I've genuinely , genuinely loved today so much . I was making a video earlier saying that you know I feel very privileged .
I hope your you know I feel very privileged . I hope this experience doesn't make you quit making podcasts .
Absolutely not . It also is the opposite . I was making a little video when we started saying that you know , I feel very privileged to have a podcast because I get to meet all kinds of different people and everybody's so different . I mean , I could meet the most boring guy in the world with the most incredible knowledge and I love that podcast Literally .
Last week I did a two-hour podcast it's kind of boring , huh . But , but the not , but no , but the knowledge . The knowledge is interesting . You know , last week I did a two-hour podcast with it , with a gang killer for a gang killer from california . A gang killer , you mean , like he was in a gang and he and he , he shot up a car here .
No , in in in california . Oh , you were in california . No , we did it on Zoom . I didn't want to get too close to him in case he pulled out that gun .
Be careful buddy , I know I give you a glass of wine . He might give you a bullet .
He doesn't like what you say . We were talking two hours about , you know , life in jail and killing people , and you know I get to experience these incredible conversations with people that I feel very fortunate to do , but you know , today has been an utterly unique day .
Thank you , it's a pleasure and even though I got my ass kicked at pool I mean I lost on purpose because I didn't want to . You have to give that painting away , but I'm going to look forward to you painting the first boba that's ever been painted by a famous artist . So , domingo , all right , muchas gracias , thank you . Thank you very much .