Discipling Men: The Barnabas Method

But in that podcast Dale spoke about Barnabas , which is the name of the men's discipleship class that he has been using over the years to disciple somewhere around 500 men .

And Dale learned it from me when I pastored in Monterey , california , and I learned it from Cliff Stabler , a local pastor in Monterey who discipled me , and Cliff had been discipled by Ray Stedman , the well-known author , who's now in heaven , and Ray Stedman had been discipled by Harry Ironside and J Vernon McGee .

Well , all that's kind of a lead-in to what we're going to be talking about , because the Barnabas discipleship process really had its genesis with these men .

So I've reached out to Dale to circle back with me to break down the how-to of Barnabas , and the reason for that is that Dale has taken what was a year-long program when we did it together back in Monterey .

He took it and made a 13-week discipleship process for the church that he pastored in the Bitterroot Valley in Montana , and so he's really done a great job with that whole thing . So anyway , welcome to the program Dale with all that long introduction .

A tab there's the Old Testament and the New Testament and then extra teachings . As you go on there you'll see it right there listed Barnabas , and it's not a teaching on Barnabas , it's a teaching discipleship curriculum .

Okay , so before we go any further , dale , I think you and I both agree that there needs to be somewhat of a disclaimer about this , concerning how will a process of discipleship be effective , or what would keep it from being effective ? Specifically , Barnabas , what do you think ?

Our salvation is a transformative process , but our sanctification is one from from glory to glory , degree by degree , and in other words , this is so relational

that it's radically different . Um , you know I said this earlier to you is that it so much of of our learning is mechanical . You know it's getting the right answer . Barnabas is about becoming the right person . That's a whole other level of learning that we must .

It's mandated biblically that we remain that way and continue open to being changed from that glory to glory , being changed from that glory to glory . And then so if somebody is using a material that is latent that way that's what it's really about and then they're not themselves open to that , then they're not going to . This isn't going to work for them .

They're not experiencing the joy of the Lord , they're not experiencing rest , they're not experiencing peace , their lives are caught up in the incredibly demanding and impossible-to-fulfill expectations of pastoral ministry and it sinks them .

It sinks them spiritually and there are also oftentimes , as being discovered , they're not healthy emotionally and a lot of times not healthy spiritually . So you and I had the same experience coming into Barnabas .

I came into Barnabas with Cliff as a pastor , I had experienced an almost total crash in ministry because I'd been operating in the flesh in a specific way of doing ministry that just about sunk me . This was before you started attending Calvary Chapel and I was introduced to Authentic Christianity , a book written by Ray Steadman , and that book undid me , frankly .

And then , when I found out that there was a way to be discipled into these things of Authentic Christianity by Cliff , I jumped at it . I was hungry , I had to go into it , just like any of the other guys that were hungry to grow . You know it was for me . I wanted to grow and I know you had the same experience . It was a different situation for you .

You were a relatively new believer and you know you'd not experienced this kind of thing before . But that's important , isn't it ? To be hungry and teachable yeah , I .

But I was talking about somebody about that very issue , about the sense that we look at maturity and we chronologically base it , don't we ? So if I ask you , well , bill , how long have you known the Lord ? You will say a chronological age Would to God . That was true with all of us . But it's not .

Maturity isn't a chronological age , it is Christ-likeness , it's looking more like him . That's the basis of where we really are with the Lord , which is wonderful to hear because that never ends , but it's also frightening because that means that we can derail it . We can stop that maturing process by not being authentic , not being teachable , not being transparent .

We can prolong what we could already enjoy , and I think that's so just by the stat you just said , by pastors . That's so important that we , our identity and sufficiency is in Christ alone and not in the congregation , not in the denomination , not in your board or your popularity , which is oh , that's a horrible one because it's a vicious trap .

with sharing our personal story however we wanted to . And when I led it , I went first and told my story first . When Cliff led it and I was in his group , he started first .

So that's why I started first when I started leading the groups and you had to be open and real , because not just to perform a program , but because that's the only way that this is going to be effective for me .

If I'm not real and honest , I can't grow , and if I'm not real and honest , the men that I'm trying to work with are likely not to catch that vision and grow themselves . That's how important it is for us , I think .

The risk is that some people know that we're really not all that great and that there's only one that is great and that's Christ Amen , and that at best , every shepherd is just a sheepdog . There's only one shepherd . Every church has the same shepherd His name is Jesus . Only one shepherd . Every church has the same shepherd His name is Jesus .

And I think that vulnerability that moves us off the pedestal that people want to place us on or ones that we want to climb up to , is removed when we're authentic and transparent and vulnerable .

But it proves it to them , you know , and that gives them the ability to be just men in Christ and grow in him . It's just amazing how it works .

At times it's just certainly not biblical , but it has to be broken down if we're going to become more like him . I mean , if there's only one that had the right to be boastful , it would have been Christ . And yet we see his humility and his servant heart and those that were around him all picked up on that . That's why we read the pages of our Bible .

We see men like that that are so authentic and so relatable and yet a lot of times I'm afraid that we don't see it in modern evangelicalism .

If you've got the hunger and if you're teachable , then what we're about to say will be helpful to you and what you're about to embark on will be helpful to you . Is that a fair statement , dale ? I can just say amen , yes , well , good , well , let's talk about , then , the process of Barnabas . We've already hinted at some of it .

It starts with a day-long retreat , but there are things I mean , if that's the way we do it In your case with the 13-week curriculum . It wasn't quite the same , but nonetheless it starts with something like that . So what's the what of Barnabas ? So what's the what of Barnabas ? What's the what of Barnabas ? We've hinted at it already . What is it ?

It's not just having the right answers to becoming the right person .

We preach , teaching every man , warning every man in all wisdom that we may present every man teleos in Christ , or mature , complete . Okay , so it's 13 weeks in duration , the version of Barnabas process that you've put together . It comes by invitation from the pastor .

That's how a man is included , he's invited , and we strongly recommend that that number 12 is a good number , no more than 12 per group .

It's amazing how many of those single guys just really grew in their understanding what marriage was , either because they maybe had been divorced or they had never married and they didn't have good understanding of what marriage looked like . So it didn't matter whether they were single or married .

But I take all various numbers of that equation , so that and pairing the guys up , that was always a fun part too .

So I assume that that's what he was talking to the Father about was who are these men going to be ? So we need to invite men who are what ? What are their characteristics ?

they don't know but now know to other people . Oh , that's great . Teachable , transparent and transference yeah the three . T's . Yeah , Cliff would tell us men of the word people-oriented . They need to have a heart for people . You can observe that about some men and then they have to show some type of pattern of faithfulness . Are they going to be reliable ?

Are they going to do anything with it ? So , before we invite , we're observing men , aren't we ?

I think you'll find these people just hanging around . You'll find these people just hanging around . There's a sense you get about these guys that you're going to invite , irrespective of their backgrounds or all the other things . But you get a sense for them because you're around them . They come to your midweek service , not just Sunday morning .

They're part of the men's prayer group . They're picking up bulletins or whatever else , sweeping the floors . There's something about them that you could tell they want more and usually that comes about you being a part of another group where you begin to recognize that .

Now , in my case and I'm interested to hear what you would say about this In my case I always wanted that invitation to be individual , so I would meet a man for lunch or at his workplace or someplace where we could just talk for about a half an hour at least and I could extend the invitation . How did you do it ?

You know they're just kind of you can't , can't get rid of them and they're just always hanging around . Or another thing that's been very interesting over the years is is that the guys that were married , they were part of Barnabas .

When their wives started seeing the radical transformation of their husband , I started getting phone calls from other wives Please take my husband . And so a lot of times I did , and a lot of times I took guys that would come in to me for marriage counseling . I would disciple the men . So they came in myriads of ways , other churches .

I would get a lot of guys from other churches that weren't part of the fellowship that somebody that I had discipled had started sharing with them . So it's amazing the different ways that they would come .

But then when I got to know them personally or exchange with them personally , there were guys that they just could not learn anything from anybody else , and I was always terrified for men like that . If you can't learn from another man , then that's saying something about how much are you actually going to be learning from the Holy Spirit .

To learn and practice , how to be encouraged by Scripture and how to be better than that transformative work to encourage other people and learning to practice the new covenant , which we explain later to people . And then growing man-to-man , small group learning from each other and passing it on . And then there's actually what is expected .

We even have a commitment level , we have a confidentiality agreement . All that on the first few pages of Barnabas .

And Also they needed to be on time . None of this 30 minutes late stuff Be on time . Do the assignments faithfully , which included meeting your mucker and dating your wife . They needed to share in the group . They needed to be transparent to their comfort level , but they needed to be transparent . They needed to share again their lessons with their spouse weekly .

They were required to teach and we told them they needed to teach their wives within 48 hours . They would all look at me with their eyes rolled back in their head as if I'm being legalistic . I said look , guys , I say this because you're going to procrastinate this to the last day anyway , so I want you to be intentional about getting it done .

Teach your wife . It's your job . You are the pastor of your home . Start doing that and then pray for each one in the group daily , and that was the commitment level that we had with them .

They got to clear the deck and then make the commitment based on that .

It's hard to have a relationship if these things aren't maintained .

The goal , as you have stated already , dale to disciple men in the new covenant , to disciple men in their marriages , to disciple men in how to put on the armor of God and stand against the spiritual warfare that certainly comes against them , how to live authentically as a Christian .

One of them was in our discussion is that discuss where you are , not where others are . Use a pronoun I rather than you . Don't give advice or suggestions to someone less asked . Support each other . Help others to share by being open yourself .

Meet each other where they are . Are not trying to change them . Not your job . That's the Holy Spirit's job , amen . These are accountability questions that we wanted that group to really bond , and those lack of those six things are accountability busters . You know you can't bond if those things aren't maintained . Same thing with confidentiality .

Yeah , men needed to know that what they were sharing with their muckers wouldn't be shared with the group unless permission was given . They needed to know that what was shared in the group wouldn't be shared to their wife or to other guys , right ? So all those things are a key part of that .

I've got an idea right now about what you're saying , is it okay if I share something with you ? And then you've got an opportunity to just say yes or no and I got to be okay with it . That's right . But that's a relational courtesy Boy . I bet you . It's been true of you . It sure has been of me over the years .

That has been all by itself such a huge ministry tool . Yeah , because who says no ? For one thing , and if they do say yes , you can share something with me , it automatically puts them much more in a teachable mode than they had been before .

I've heard this for years in the church that it's the women that are the gossipers . In my perspective , men are far worse gossipers than women ever imagined to be . And again , it's terrible . But we need to have an environment where men especially men , because we're not told to speak about our feelings and emotions and and relational aspects .

So we need we need a safety to be able to do that well .

And the way we've learned to do that is , say , we've got six , six guys on our little lunchtime or our mealtime group , we're eating our sack lunch , and so how many guys are there ? Six guys . We've got 60 minutes , so that's 10 minutes a guy .

You've got 10 minutes to talk and we're going to give you a little tea , a little tea for timeout when you've got a minute left . So you'll know you've got to wrap this up and you can talk about anything you want to , but while that man is talking , nobody else is talking . So what are we learning ?

So , boy , what transferable skills those are .

If the guy was applying the Barnabas material to his wife , she was thrilled and without us saying a word , the baked goods would start coming into the Barnabas meetings Just because they were so appreciative of their husband listening or dating her or teaching her . They'd never seen it before .

And the reality is that we I don't need to anymore . And the reality is , is that we ? I always I told Denise , before we got married , I said don't ever settle for a man that will win you once . Settle for the man who will win you every day the rest of your life , because that's what Christ has done with us .

He's never stopped winning us and we need to be men if we're married to continue . And , by the way , if there's a single guy out there , if you desire to be , feel called to be married , you won't have any problem finding somebody that wants you if you're going to treat her that way every day of her life ?

But I think we we say hey , you know , maybe it's hey , we'll watch your kids for you so you can go out . Or maybe just a date doesn't have to be financial . A lot of people you know they're on fixed incomes . It's hard to financially go out and we understand all that . That's why those we call it 50 ways to lead your Okay , and so pick one of those .

Sometimes I've had guys actually take and read those 50 Things to Wives and that was their date . And I'm just laughing at how crazy some of those things were . And my list came from counseling sessions . I would ask couples over the years what do you consider a good date ?

We want them to think about it , pray about it , talk to their wife about it , and then they can come back with their yes . And after that , then we actually do what the Barnabas process is .

So we start with some kind of an introduction of ourselves to each other , whether it's at an all-day retreat or you take a part of the first session for that type of thing , and then we move on from there . How did it go with you ?

recently that I have done that . There was a group I did the first group I did . I did not do that and that group I mean they made it through the 13 weeks but I wouldn't say it was successful . But then I learned something from that , because getting away from people is challenging at times .

So what I did is I planned a , a meal and had the guys with their wives come to the dinner . I think there was four , so there's eight total plus Denise and I 10 people and we had a meal together and after the meal and during the meal we got to know each other because I didn't know them . It's new in the church .

And then I had fielded questions about Barnabas to the wives as well . And that group man , was that ever a successful group ? All of them just took off on it . So it was matter of fact . One of the guys just called me last week .

He just came on staff at this particular church and he was only two days on staff at the church and they had a pastoral retreat and one of the questions was what was the most successful thing , the most impactful thing that's happened to you in the last year and he said , barnabas , wow , he said it's changed my life , okay .

So I think that kind of connection , like you said , that early connection , is something that I at times haven't always been able to facilitate , because I've done this off of , I've Skyped it to Zoom meetings , I've done a lot of different ways and it's kind of hard to do it when you're doing it that way . I prefer the way that you've described .

We're talking about things Like it would be great , wouldn't it , if we would deliver our teaching on Sunday and then we immediately had a post-service time where everybody could just kind of resonate with the material , talk about it , ask their questions . Well , that's what Barnabas is . Barnabas allows that to happen .

Those are the four key components and they overlap at certain times In a few of those weeks I think week six or seven they've got a lot of stuff to get done , but it's not in the beginning , it's more in the middle part of that and um . So you know they're self-contained . Is the idea , in other words , the questions there , and they're not .

Again , they're not questions that are about finding the right answer . There are questions that are so relatable that what you , what one person , may say is the answer , may not be the answer for another person . They're very specific and then they're even asked at some aspects to dial that down further .

In other words , I you know it could be one of the questions could deal something with I need to love my wife more . I would never let him pass with that . I'd say how , how , yeah , what are you going to do ?

I mean , if somebody's going to be a church administrator , they need training , so we disciple them in admin , whatever . But this was not that he wanted , and of course , the Holy Spirit wants us to be conformed into the image of Christ . That was the thing .

And he knew that if that became the outcome in a man's heart , he'd find out what his spiritual gifts are eventually and he'd find out where he can serve and he'd discover his ministries and his stewardships , and that would happen . And I so appreciated that that there was no well , sometimes , those kinds of approaches .

There was no manipulative approach to it at all . It was just . It was me , the Lord Jesus , the Holy Spirit and the other men in that group . That's what it was , and Holy Spirit and the other men in that group , that's what it was , and my wife , of course .

Timothy Titus , you know , gives you some of the qualifications and a mandate really to go out and disciple people for finding positions .

But again , this is more geared towards becoming the right person and allowing the Lord to direct them to what position he may want them at , and allowing the Lord to direct them to what position he may want them at Instead of saying no , I have a guy that's an elder , so I want you to you know well , no , let's just get the guy healthy spiritually and go in

the right direction . But I will say that over the years for me I didn't have anybody on my board or in leadership that I didn't personally disciple . What an advantage I mean , I use that as a pool basis all the time , but I didn't do it initially because they were an elder . They became that after spending that much time mentoring them .

If you will , you know , I remember first hearing the phrase in this kind of a training , if you will , you know , I remember first hearing the phrase New Covenant Living or something along those lines , and I thought what does that mean ? But it became clear the difference between the Old Covenant and New Covenant kind of living .

Basically it's the contrast between the flesh and the spirit . But these are biblical words . Paul used them in 2 Corinthians , right , Right and biblical phrases . But I remember verbalizing those things among some of the people in our tribe and they'd go what are you talking about ? Is this a cult that you're part of ?

No worries , we're just dealing with something that's in the Bible . So we do the 13-week curriculum and at the end of it there's an acknowledgement that this part of it is finished , and so on and so forth . What's next for the guys after that ?

And so I have guys right now that they still , in all the places I've been , they still contact me on a regular basis . They still meet with their mucker . It's an amazing thing and they still . You know , I call every month the pastor now in Montana every month I call him just to chat and it's sort of the you and the cliff thing .

You know we still have these relationships so that doesn't end as it relates to the body of Christ and to your life . My first wife , donna , said it well , she used to always say to me she goes , isn't it about time you go through another Barnabas ?

And her statement was basically you know , you're kind of letting some of these things slide about dating your wife and teaching her .

And right now on this church that I'm attending here , I think there's about I don't know maybe four or five guys that are discipling other people right now , and so that's what I want to see happen , and so that becomes what I call the 14th week . You know , they start getting involved and doing that .

Some of the guys begin to see , like I said , one guy that I just finished here about six months ago , eight months ago , he is now on staff of this church . He just got put on staff , so some of them go into ministry , which is always wonderful to see .

The other thing I like to do with these guys is and this is again something pastors can have a lead way of doing but if you don't have a men's study or a men's Bible study or a men's group , that can facilitate something really cool as well , because that can be a landing spot for some of those guys that maybe not yet ready , but it also can be a hunting

ground for guys that you might want to grab for the next ground .

So I have a lot of things that I'm always looking for those guys , and if you have a men's group or something you can plug them into , it's just a really , and I facilitate that men's group . I don't teach it per se , I facilitate it . So it has that Barnabas feel to it , but they're familiar with it . Yeah , that's great .

And then , hopefully , I'll work myself out of jobs , I'll turn it loose and say , hey , why don't you take tonight ? So then they can get their feet wet a little bit that way too , if they have teaching giftings or other aspects of ministry .

I'm going to be praying and I'm sure you are too , for this to reach the ears of those that the Holy Spirit wants it to reach , and we'll see what happens . But to access again the curriculum , one must go to scripturesupplycom , follow the teaching

links , special subjects , and then you'll find Barnabas . Click on that and that's the curriculum . My question , though you've also got the entire curriculum in a PDF format . I have a copy of that . I think my copy is probably close to what you have now , but would it be possible for us to include a download link to the PDF copy of the curriculum as well ?

So the material is there , wonderful , and they can grab it .

As you've heard , we've been talking about Barnabas , which is a process of developing men and helping them become more conformed into the image of Christ . So , again , thanks to Dale Lewis for joining us and reach out to him . All of this information will be in the show notes and you can take it from there .

And we'd love to have feedback from you , by the way , as to what the Lord is doing . It would be wonderful to hear some of those stories , because we want what happens to be God things , we want them to be God moments , god experiences .

So feel free to share that with us as well , and the show notes will be available , like I said , and the announcer will give you information as to how to reach out to Poimen Ministries . God bless you and thanks for joining us on Strength for Today's Pastor .

May the Lord bless you as you serve him , His pastors and His church .