The Maier Effect

Don't tell your parents where we went, i'm sort of a spy. Music.

Hey welcome to the street shots photography podcast this is antonio and this is ward and this is episode uh something for some time 214 214 214 area code for dallas texas is it okay we're gonna do we're gonna do area codes now from now on right this is this is directed this is dedicated to dallas texas episode 214 for the end of august 2024 and now it is the end of august i I was, I was talking to, uh, I'm just talking to, I was, oh, I, I got a chance to guest,

teach in a, oh, in a podcast class. I, I got, well, not, I was guest teacher. I was a guest instructor, guest, a guest for a podcast class, but that's actually not what I was talking about. I was going to think of, there was a student, I get my classes all mixed up. There was a student in one of my classes and she was like, August is almost over. I'm like, it's only halfway through. Don't worry about it. But now it's almost over. I asked her, do you have to go to school in September? She's like,

yes. I'm like, oh, I said, I don't.

But if you want to go to school that's good news if you don't you don't want to go to school it's not good yes that's true but yes we're at the end of august and we have our second summer we had false fall already here we are temperatures gone straight into frigid winter something there's no, like uh an hour and a half west of here oh i don't want you know okay i'm gonna buy snow boots this Because if I buy snow boots, that means we're not going to get snow this year.

Okay. Well, do whatever voodoo stuff you got to do. And that's all good. That's just, yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah. It's night. I'm sitting here. Well, now it's 86 degrees, but my, my room is a lot warmer for some reason. So I'm sitting here with a bandana, with a babushka on my head, schvitzing, trying not to schvitz. The schvitz. Yeah. The schvitz. So, yeah, I did get a chance to, this is the, here's my news. Here's some stuff. Here's we're catching up. I was with Antonio.

Yeah. No, I was invited to a podcasting intensive class at Brick. And it was a two-hour class. And I talked to the instructor and I said, I don't know if I've got two hours worth of stuff to talk about. And I offered, you know, to be a guest because of the show.

Show you know i mean i've got i've got some experience doing some podcasting yeah and so i did to put together a quick little presentation and i edited our last show the day the day before i did most of the stuff on it like all the hard work on it but i left the finishing touches for the class and then i actually published and if i actually published i got i got i set up i didn't publish it because it was one day before our regular date. But I did everything up to that. I did the cover art.

I talked about writing the description, which I used ChatGPT to help us summarize because it does all the transcription and stuff like that. I ended up taking more than two hours in class, believe it or not. And they didn't mind. No, they didn't mind. And actually they were all like everybody, they were all sticking around and they really enjoyed it. And I actually kind of surprised myself. I'm like, oh yeah, I actually know what I'm talking about.

And what's funny is that few stories from the trenches. Yeah. And oh yeah, a few, you know, for 10 years, 10 years plus. But, you know, what's interesting is that they're being taught a different workflow than I do. And basically, I try to tell them, like, whatever workflow you end up doing, don't change it. You know, I mean, unless you have a real good reason. I always say that to my photography students, because you have a good workflow.

Once you start changing things, unless you have a really good reason, it's a good way to send yourself into chaos and frustration and stuff like that. So, you know, you may not get the 100% workflow. If you get an 85% workflow in podcasting or Lightroom, whatever it is, I say stick with it.

And, you know, you can gradually increase and decrease the percentages, you know, but don't go too crazy because every time I have a student who changes their workflow in something, they're like, well, I tried to copy the things. And I'm like, no, did you pay attention to what I said? Anyway. So that was really interesting. I've gone from teaching photography to being a guest on podcasting class, which, which got thumbs up.

Apparently I got an, well, the, the next week the teacher emailed me and said that the students were still talking about, you know, the session that I had. And so that was, that was fun. That was, yeah, that was fun. And so, yeah, I've done, I've had like a whole bunch of classes.

I think it's like four between our episodes three three or four maybe three photography classes and then the podcast class so it's been a been a teaching august i'm not tired of it but it's it it takes a lot of work and then i got asked by the live by another library in brooklyn to set up class for teaching kids i think between like they she said eight and twelve year olds with their parents tweeners yeah in the library for doing an hour class three one hour

classes separate classes not not not one continuous class but okay three separate sessions and so i've got to come up with a class to and and we're going into winter and fall and so how to do it with smartphones in a library situation so maybe a scavenger hunt podcast or this is uh photography Photography. Photography. Photography. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not doing any podcasting stuff yet, but yeah, I've got, I've got a few library classes coming up, which, uh, yeah, I'm excited about.

Um, the one with kids should be fun. Interesting. Cause I think we have to do all the photography inside. So, but I don't know. We'll see. Well, you don't have to worry about exposure terribly much. You've just got the phone. No, it's just the phones. Yeah. Which is everybody's got the cameras. It's fine. Yeah. It's just trying to figure out how to, like, what are they going to photograph in there? But I got a list of things like, you know, colors and book covers and portraits

of their parents or something like that. So anyway. Joel Meyerowitz has a really good book for kids. Does he? I don't know if you saw it. Yeah. I've forgotten the name of it. It's very brightly colored is it still is it still oh yeah it's oh yeah got a big eye on it yeah oh shoot let me just take a run through that i mean it's you give me give you some inspiration.

Yeah i've seen it so oh i saw it at i saw it at the apad show i think or it's boy i can't remember the publisher that i saw it but but i did see it yeah yeah yeah or i saw it anyway whatever so So, a lot of news. I don't know. I'll try to keep it short because we want to get into the show. You've been to other things, too. I've been to other things.

Well, first I'll go into, first I finally did receive, I put in an order in for the Fuji X100 VI in February. And I had gotten an email about a month ago saying, oh, don't expect it until October 15th.

15th i was like okay i was resigned to that and i don't care and you know i've got enough cameras to keep me busy but it showed up two months early showed up uh two two weeks ago and and so you you did like a fancy unboxing and all that i did a fancy unboxing because i want to show off that i've got it nobody else has it yeah no i my gosh i'm watching all these people do this stuff on And, you know, on Facebook, I'm part of a X100 VI group,

and people put their pictures of, like, they just, like, the box is there. And, of course, for those of us who didn't have the camera, like, oh, great, thanks. What do you, why are you showing that, right? So when I get it, I said, well, everybody else is posting pictures. So I posted a shot just to be a real pain in the butt here. So, yeah, it is fine. It is an update to the X100 series. is it's, it's got the little bendy screen, which I find kind of useful for doing street photography.

I put a grip on it this time. So I have a little bit more of a handle on it. It's slightly heavier. This is not a real review and I'm not going to do a real review, but this is my, you know, me telling you. We'll put a splashy clicky baby title on this. Yeah. But for the YouTube thumbnail, I'll put up these, you know, we'll make silly faces with the camera. It's just worth buying. Anyway, it, I'm finding it like a nice, the one I have now is the X 100 F.

So it's a nice upgrade from that. The lens is a little bit better, wider open. I'm, I'm noticing it's pretty sharp, wide open. This is a 40 megapixel, right, the VI? It is. It's the big one. And that I'm finding probably the most useful thing because I like to crop into my pictures. And so having that extra space, especially with a 35 equivalent lens on there, means I can pull in a little bit more stuff from shooting across the street or something like that.

And the other thing I noticed that it's really, really good in low light. The the low light the high isos i could regularly shoot in like 6400 or even 12 000 and it doesn't seem to break a sweat i mean it just so there's something about it even with that high megapixel small epsc sensor at least for me and like i'm looking at it and i'm like you know you know for the first picture i took was of opie and it was on my underneath my desk and it was dark and i I think the camera was set to 12,000.

He had a little trouble focusing on his eyes because I didn't update the firmware. But the noise levels, if you want to call it the grain, whatever we're going to call it, I barely noticed it, especially when I zoomed in and did my pixel peeping. And so, yeah, it seems like a nice – it is a nice upgrade for that line, I think. I don't know what more they could do with that camera. you know, for like the next thing.

Right. Unless they, you know, add more film simulations. But I think there's like a, you know, and part of me is like enough with the film simulations, right? Like with the film simulations and then with everybody making recipes for it, you know, so everybody's recombining and stuff. I mean, there's more than enough things to choose from. So I'm not sure how many more internal, I don't know how many more internal film simulations Fuji needs to make. Of course, you know, this is me saying it now.

And then next year they'll come out with the, this and that. And I'm like, Ooh. Well, there'll be, you know, expired super, super double X pan from 1948. Yeah. All the sliders are all the sliders are in one direction. Yes. Yeah. Maybe that's what they'll do. They'll add more, they'll add more, uh, processing features in the camera. Anyway, it, I, I'm enjoying it a lot and it feels nice.

It's a it's a again that that camera that size camera that that form that format all right i'm getting the words wrong that factor form factor thank you that form factor really pulls me into, or draws me into like wanting to walk the streets and do stuff it's just i don't know why that is i mean why that than other other cameras i don't know but it does just has this pull for the way i feel about my e3s my xe3s yeah yeah

yeah it's it's odd that it's camera it's odd that a camera would do that i mean because one would think like it doesn't does it really matter what camera you have because otherwise i could just use my phone or something like that because that's just just as not noticeable as any other camera but there's something about this one that that pulls me and having that bendy screen makes a big difference you know doing that.

You know twin lens reflex style shooting when you're looking down and and shooting that that's very helpful so anyway you know i wouldn't say it's an endorsement i think it's it's a it's a good camera i don't know if it's worth that weight but you know that's what happened it was a long wait and i didn't really care that much and i'm happy to have it i'm really happy to go shoot with it so so yeah i brought it with me last night when i went to see talk with sean tucker cool Cool.

Yeah. He, it was actually a quick invite. Like it was like two weeks ago. I got an invite or, you know.

Email saying that he was going to be in new york doing a talk on his book so the book that we talked about when he was on the show the meaning in the making yeah he was doing a small talk about that and and so you know it was a little coffee shop on just off of sixth avenue a very strange little coffee shop it was a bookstore as well it it seems sort of out of place in a way okay because it's incorporated like sixth avenue in the 40s is all

like banks and these you know tall buildings and there's just little coffee shop off to the side that's full of books where they put the books in color order and i think they're like used book it's not a brand new bookstore it's like used books but okay uh but they're real books i think you can buy them there too you can buy books there but so he had this little gathering i mean there might have been 25 30 people there but it was intimate and he did sort of a encapsulation of his of his

book bringing in his his own voice further to it and so i got a chance to hang out with him for a couple minutes i didn't want to bung up too much but he remembered us cool you know he remembered our show and uh he did ask i was how i was doing which was which moved me a lot because he remembered you know the circumstances and stuff and and what i found about him like in person was that he's very like Like, he is the person, right?

He is the same person in his book that he writes, is the same person that's on the YouTube channel, and in person. And, you know, I, you know, and I think you can get a sense of somebody, especially if you're, like, for me, I resonate a lot with what he talks about. And, you know, he's not the person who's putting on an act, which, you know, you go through YouTube channels and, you know, I think half the people are putting up. It's a show, yeah. It's a show, yes.

And I really feel from him that he's always been sincere about what he's doing and, you know, he's successful at it as well. And he's also very, you know, personable. And so I really had that experience with him. It was almost like I knew him already. ready. I walked in, I was like one of the first people walked in. I'm like, you know, I was like, Hey Sean, how you doing? He's like, okay, great. I was like, wait a minute. I've never met the guy in person.

So yeah, it was about an hour talk and then about a half an hour for some questions. And I did bring up a question. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was, it was really talking about the sort of dichotomy between being, you know, being able to share your pictures. He was talking about social media and how we can share pictures so quickly. But, you know, in a sense, he's talking about photography and sort of what we talk about a lot, too, is slowing down.

Right. And social media is so the opposite of that. So social media sharing pictures is the opposite of slowing down and looking at photography. And I also said, you know, I wonder how we are going to deal with, you know, as photography as an art form has been relegated for the most part into this thing that we look to look at on our phones for two, you know, like one point two seconds, two inches by three inches. You know, it's one of the few art forms that's been compressed into this thing.

So I can't remember his answer, but it was it was a good little talk. So I was really, really happy to to be able to go out into the city.

And after the talk i was a little inspired i actually met up with a couple of people out there who were talking so it was a nice little meet up there and i went to the street corner because i was on 6th avenue and uh 42nd 46th street i think yeah 46th street and that's right next to time square so i was thinking about going to time square because time square at night you know with a camera is a lot of fun but i was like and i started while he was

talking i was sitting And I kept seeing these pedicabs coming by. Pedicabs are, you know, might be modern rickshaws, right? So it was a bicycle in the front and a little cab for two people in the back. And there's a big business of this here for the tourists. But what I noticed is a lot of them now are putting up like little neon signs or glowy lights in the little cabin part. Right. Yeah. And they all have different things. They all have different patterns.

And I'm watching these things go by while I was sitting near the window while Sean was talking. So I'm catching my eye. I'm seeing these things. I'm like, maybe I need to go and grab some shots. So when the talk was done, I just had, you know, when you come out of a talk like that or something like that, that you're getting fired up to take pictures or something like that.

So, yeah, I stood on the corner for a little while, and I used the X100 to do some slow pan shots of these pedicabs going back. And that was a lot of fun. And I realize I haven't gone into the city to do any kind of photography in a while. And nighttime photography is actually a lot of fun, especially with this camera where it just has a little bit more leeway in terms of low-light work.

Work and you know time square or that area is just pretty brightly lit so you can you can do a lot of fun stuff so anyway that was that's that was those are the two things like those that's i've been talking a lot i've been what what have you been doing what have i been doing i just went went to saskatchewan to visit with my mom for a while and help her clean up her garden and help her and my My sister do some pickling of some beans and, you know, cucumbers.

It's like it's very domestic and rural. This is a very city mouse, country mouse thing going on right now. Well, but I'm both city mouse and country mouse, so I can ease. It's not strange to me to go back there. That is true. Yeah. You know, so I guess that's a gift I have. I don't know, whatever. But I also had the opportunity to try to keep my exercise up, to go out in the mornings with the phone and I brought all my Fuji gear with me because you never know.

But I walked around town with my phone and I was sort of inspired by previous work I'd done and by a picture of yours, actually. There's a picture of a cow behind a fence. Remember the cow? Yeah, the cow that just sort of like, I am the cow. You are looking at me, right? It's the thing itself. The picture is about the thing itself. So that was going through my mind and I'm just taking pictures of things. There's a car. I take a picture of the car.

There's a shed by the high school. well i take a picture of the shed uh there's there's the back of a building and it's an interesting shape and it's got a white door and i'll take a picture of that and they're all dead dead centered in the middle of the frame like a four by five aspect ratio i made a point of constraining it that way and did my my black and white my my my trademark black and white processing. I sprinkled my own fairy dust on it, which sounds disgusting,

but it's good. And it's sorry, it's inappropriate. I can't, I'm cranky. I'm a little bit off today. You know, I, I think you're actually pretty on. What are you talking? Okay. Okay. So anyway, so I have five or eight or I don't know, eight pictures of things that are things in the picture. And with this, this is the first time I've really like dealt with the high, the higher resolution and the HEIC format and all that kind of stuff.

And, you know, I'm zooming in, pinching, pulling and looking at these images and like, I could print these suckers. Like they look good. Is this something that you're doing for the first, like you're just realizing for the first time? Is this a new phone or something? I've done this sort of thing before, but this is the first time where, you know, in 50 years previous, you would have set up a view camera practically to do this kind of formal. It's very formal, which I love. It's sort of like...

You know, you walk by these things, they're mundane things. And I'm like, I'm, because they're mostly lighter colored, the way I do my processing, the whites go, they start almost get blocked up, right? So they, I call it glowy whites, right? So they, they almost radiate, being pretentious here, but they, they have a kind of radiation coming from them as a subject. Radiance? Radiance. Yes, radiance. Luminance. Try and find every Ansel Adams word I can think of. Yeah, yeah.

And so they kind of fit the bill there. And so it was really satisfying going around going, oh, I took a picture of this car. And just with your phone, too. Just with the phone, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what was drawing your attention, like, object-wise? Like, what was the, yeah, what pulled you to take a shot of something? Well, it started with a car and it was like a mid-70s Lincoln Mark V or something.

So it was an old Lincoln coupe and it was white. And this time of year where I grew up out there, there are these tiny little bugs. I call them gnats. They're probably not gnats, but they collect on the front of the cars and it's disgusting. It's sort of like it's this field of little black dots all over the front of the car.

And you don't notice it you the car just looks a little gray on the front but if you would see a print of this or you zoomed in you would see the front of the car is just covered so there's a kind of an in joke like a little prairie joke there that here's this car typical of the cars that would have been driven around when i was a kid there you know covered with bugs and this was like there's like jumping straight back to my childhood and then that got me going and then And I'm walking,

and then there's a shed behind my high school, my old high school. And it's just a corrugated metal shed. And I just took a picture of it broadside, and it's like that, you know, corrugated textured metal. And it's white as well. And so it jumps off the page, and it just, or jumps off the print or picture. It just was just the thinginess of it, or whatever the word is. It's presence. Like, here's a mundane thing, and we're jacking it up for this picture.

Things that you walk by every day, now we're turning it into something bigger or with greater significance. And I guess my childhood is coming through. I mean, these pictures kind of remind me of an image that I took earlier this year of a soccer player. The frame of a soccer goal in a field that's just a couple blocks away from the house here. And it's painted white, so it has that glow thing.

And it's, you know, this big rectangle. And so the pattern that I seem to have picked up was I can take pictures of rectangular things. So it's black and white pictures of rectangular things that are glowy. So it's very satisfying. What drew you to use the phone instead of one of your other cameras?

It's just because i was going out for my for my walk and that so it wasn't really a photo thing it was just a no it was like well i was gonna i'm gonna have the phone with me and i would probably take pictures of something and then it kind of coalesced after i had the picture of that car and then i came back to the house after my walk well the car in the shed i'm like okay now there's something going on here i'm gonna pursue this a little bit that's really interesting wow yeah wow and and the

the photos that you're creating on the phone they're obviously good enough for printing and like yeah yeah yeah or would you think of consider printing them well or put them in a book or something i don't know yeah yeah i created a private album for myself called the thing itself really i like that name and i'm going to go back and get the picture of the soccer net or the soccer goal or the the frame and all that and put them in there shovel them in there

and just see if there's something i could do with them whether it's print them or Or make it a zine or whatever. Wow. I mean, I could see it being a horizontal formatted booklet zine kind of thing. Well, that's pretty cool. You don't see horizontal books that much, and I think it would be an interesting form factor. Anyway, so that was my weekend. That is cool. Do you think you're going to do, it doesn't matter what camera you're shooting

with, it's just now it's whatever the subject is. like we'll draw you in. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, if I'm finding them on my walks, I mean, it'll definitely be the phone and I don't, And we talked about this a little bit with, with Gino, which like, doesn't matter that you took it with the phone. No, it really doesn't. No, it doesn't. Pictures are great.

So I do sometimes on my Facebook page, when I post some shots, especially of the neighborhood, I will sometimes put that I photographed it with the phone as kind of an education thing, because in part of my my motivation to that or the reason why i want to do that is because i want people to in a way stop thinking about the phone as some oh well you know you know it's it's not a serious camera or like i really want that to be sort of to go away right right i don't know if i'm doing it the right

way by saying also i i i think that some people think that's a flex like Like, I'm such a good photographer. I can take a good picture even with the phone. Look at me. Yeah, no, I get that could be, you know, I can see where that comes across. And, of course, I, you know, both someone like you and me who have been taking photography, doing photography for a while, we can say that in some way. We just have experience. No, I mean, not to pat our own backs, but we worked hard to get.

To these points where we can use pretty much we understand the limits of equipment and cameras and we know what we can do with them and what we can't do with them and that comes from experience and so we can't deny that you know but my i think sometimes my goal by doing that is to really even though i'm mentioning that it's with a camera i i want people to understand like you can take good pictures with whatever you have like you right if you have a camera you have a you have of a smartphone

fine just learn how to use it just learn how to look look at things you know so in a way that's kind of you know people go oh that's with a with a phone i'm like yeah, duh you know you can take great shot you don't have to buy you know the you know the leica q3 to take great shots with you know also i should say the the in camera processing i use portrait mode with the standard light and now it looks a little bit more view camera-y because the background goes out of focus, which is really.

Really gives them, it helps separate the subject from the background even more. Exactly, yeah. So between the radiance The radiation. The shallow the fake shallow depth of field, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. It really the pictures look more like they're from a large format on that camera. Well, you can either use the portrait motor or import them into Lightroom and use Lightroom's new blur feature on the phone is actually not so bad.

And so, yeah, it's, yeah, we talked about being fake and stuff, but, you know, ultimately it's like the picture that's produced. Yeah. What's being said with it and, you know, at this point it doesn't matter, you know, so. Well, awesome. That's really cool. I, like, I like that you had that experience. I like to see these pictures I know you showed some of the pictures. Did you show all of the pictures in our group? They're all up on my Instagram now.

They're on your Instagram. I think all of them are on my Instagram. Right. So it means I have to actually launch Instagram to see. All right. I'll do that. Fine. Fine. Why would you do that? Fine. What are you going to have to do? I just put them up there. Okay. Well, I thought you might have shared them in our collective group. I know you shared some of the shots of the cars. Oh, I shared the first four, I think. Yeah, I shared the first couple. The first three or four. Yeah. All right. Music.

Sean Tucker wasn't the only thing going to see Sean Tucker wasn't the only thing. And, uh, there is a place in the city called, uh, I'm going to get the name. I'm going to photograph this pH, uh, F O T O G R A F I S T A. It's sort of large gallery, coffee shop, bookstore, all photography related.

And they currently have a show of vivian meyer's work they also have a show of bruce gildens but we're not going to be talking about bruce tonight i want to talk about vivian meyer's because this is the first time i've seen a show of her work in a formal environment and just for a footnote i did I did see a Vivian Myers show here in Calgary in 2019. Actually, was it early in 2020? It was the last public thing I did before the

pandemic. Before the pandemic, yeah. Yeah. This show's been advertised everywhere for a long time, and I made sure that I wanted to go see it because they're also closing down this location, which I'm also very embarrassed that this is the first time I've been there. And what a place it is. is ground floor on 22nd Street and Park Avenue is like, it's a photo bookstore and a cafe. And like, it looks like the, you know, lobby of a museum.

And then you go up on the elevator. They have one, two, they have four floors that I know of. There's a top floor, which is a little gallery, but it's like it, I can't describe it. It looks like it's a 19th century photo studio with giant skylights. It almost looks like the inside of a barn with like wooden beams and stuff like this. And the inside is they have these nice little chairs that you can sit down on. They have a stage and I guess they have presentations there and whatnot.

I'm really embarrassed. I haven't gone to this thing before. I've been always thinking, I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I just haven't done this thing. You know, it's like if you live in New York, how often do you go to the Statue of Liberty? They had a little bit of a show up there from another photographer who I'd like to actually talk about at some other point in the future. I've got some pictures. I'll show them to you later. He was doing expired Polaroid film portraits.

He had portraits on Spring Street in New York City. Portraits of photographers. A shot of Ralph Gibson. A shot of Jamel Shabazz and a few other people.

Anyway but there was two floors devoted to vivian meyer's work and i only thought there was one floor and then i went to it i was like oh there's two floors so it was a giant show of her work and i realized we've never talked about her work you know sort of in depth in the show and i'm not sure how much we can do in a half an hour or how much time we get left for the show but.

I thought well actually i thought it was your idea to come up with the for us to discuss this because now we've both seen her work in person. It was fantastic. And so, you know, Vivian Meyer's work might be divisive amongst photographers. And, you know, there's some people saying it's not so great. And other people are, you know, going head over heels over it. I'm on the latter side of that. I haven't really gotten a chance to look at her work in print form, which was amazing.

Amazing it was an amazing amazing amazing not every shot was great you know there was a there was a selection of her color work not a lot of good not like good stuff because it was like machine prints that she might have had made at a at a drugstore something like that so they were kind of fadey and stuff like that and i didn't see a lot of strength in the color at least i i think they almost should have left

the color out of the show because it just wasn't enough of it and it It didn't make an impact. Compared to the black and white stuff. And the, and the sections were broken down into, let's see. I mean, there was, I'm reading from the, the plaques that they had up. Uh, one was subtle gestures, you know, so closeups of, of hands and stuff, self portraits. They had a selection of her self portraits, which she loved to do. Theater of the ordinary was one section.

And the last one was remarkable identities. And it was just her fixated on faces and stuff. And so this was sort of broken up into multiple sections. They had some of her eight millimeter films that they were showing because she walked around with a, with a film camera and those were, you know, again, there was no style coming out of that. It was just more like of a record of, you know, and she was like photographing people walking like their legs and stuff like that.

So it wasn't the kids that, because in the documentary, which we'd seen from a few years ago, there was, she, she sometimes shot the kids that she was babysitting or nannying. Nannying. Yeah. Is that a word? Nanny? I don't know. But she was looking after, she was responsible for. No, they, they, they only had some audio of her talking to one of her kids, which was really interesting.

It was hard to hear, but you could hear her voice talking about like putting on, you know, of the asking the kids put out their sweater on and stuff like that. And it was so, once I could hear it, it was really, it was touching in a way to hear that voice coming, you know, like her being nanny, motherly, you know, caring. Yeah. So there was that, there was a real personal part that I could, that felt like I could identify with so easily. Yeah.

And we should talk about the documentary a little bit, too, after this, because we should compare notes on the shows we saw. There was some of her work that she had printed, and they had it juxtaposed to whoever had made the prints for their show. And she was a terrible printer. She did not know how to, you know, and this is not meant as a criticism of her, because, like, I can imagine when I remember when I was on The Dark Room, I wasn't the best printer.

You know, even though I was learning with Sid Kaplan, who's probably one of the best black and white printers in New York City, if not in the country, it didn't stick with me. So I wasn't a really good printer. So, you know, whoever printed this show took this. I don't know if we could talk about this, but elevated her work to this point that was just unbelievable.

If it was a show of her work like looking at those machine prints that the color ones maybe this is maybe this is it because those aren't those are straight from you know machine there's no work on them or her own prints which she was also cropping a lot i don't know if you saw any i don't know if you had any of those in your show like no there was none of those no there was just from the the john maloof collection those were.

So they had a few inches across, right? They were, they were a fair size.

10 by 10. Yeah. 11 by 11. Actually, I think they were all about the same size, but occasionally there was maybe like three or four panels that had her original shot or like a contact sheet of her work, which the contact sheet would be showing the full frame, her crop and her print compared to the print and crop that was actually, there was no cropping in this show, by the way, where it was printing, it was printing everything full frame.

So when they made the selections for the show and i'm sure this is the same with the show you saw they're taking the entire image into a into into account and her frame is great her frame is great but she didn't what was interesting is that in the few prints that she had they were all cropped and her frame was not great so if this had been a show of just her work where she had printed the show i think she would have been lost in obscurity you know the the fact that

this stuff was found and appraised and and seen for what it is and then given the the attention that it deserves. Brought her work you know into the into the stratosphere i was blown away by the quality of the prints by the subject matter by what she was capturing again not every shot was great but But, but like when it was seen in the whole context of, of the rest of like the section that it was in, I was just, I was blown away by this stuff.

And I was really, really happy that I got to see this stuff as print. And it was nice. They also had her hat. They had her, they had her Roloflex there. They had this Leica camera, which didn't even have a model number on it. And it had a, I think it's a, I think it was a 90 millimeter lens because it said nine centimeters. So nine centimeters would be 90 millimeters. It was really kind of, it was, yeah. And it was really kind of ugly and beat up.

It didn't look like anything that was, that would be like something, but they had that in a box, but her Rolly was there too. And the, and her hat and I don't know if they had anything else there. So there wasn't a lot of personal stuff there. That would have been nice to see some, some of her personal stuff.

So, but tell me about your experience with it since we, you know, I don't want this to be a one-way conversation well no i mean i was struck the same as you or i was very quiet like i remember we were talking last year or it was last summer about the deanna arbus exhibit and how it was kind of emotionally draining for me because the subject matter what you covered this was different this was like transported back to the mid 50s and early 60s an appreciation for

her ability to use the rollie and the depth of character she gets from the faces and being a woman i think it makes a difference that the way the subject responds to her and how they're being photographed if i mean it looked like most of the pictures that she took of the people that she photographed that you know or knew that they were being photographed or were engaged in conversation with her or whatever but there's a gentleness to her to her observation that i I thought was really good.

She captured the time and her form is good. And, and going to the prints, like the, whatever film she was using. And I don't, I don't know. I don't remember. I think maybe I did, but the negatives that she produced must've been pretty good because just the, there's one picture that you shared with me, a street, basically a street portrait of Lena Horne walking and the texture on her blouse. It's just stunning.

You know, just, just what she was able to capture on film and what the printers were able to do. It was just very arresting. I was very quiet at the end of, I mean, I went with a group, I went with Beers and Cameras group actually to go see it. And we, we chatted a little bit about it and, you know, and my observation was, yeah, not all of them were great. And, but in terms of the history of, you know, American street photography,

I think she fits in there. I don't think there's any doubt of that. Yeah. I think that's, she, she's, you know, she's all the place that way in that. Sorry, I was going to say, you know, I think, I don't know if it was in the show or something like that or I read it, but I think she did, I don't know if she processed the film herself, but I think she was very meticulous about how it was to be processed.

I think there was some indication of notes or something to, to develop her. Like, so she had a very. Desire because i had just seen i just watched the because i had told my mother that you had been to the exhibit and i said have you seen finding vivian meyer the documentary she said no well come on sit down so trying to get my mother to sit down and watch a documentary.

So and i had seen it before and i actually saw a premiere here in calgary at the at the art cinema here saw it when it when it debuted and it was like all of the photo nerds from around the city like i know you i know you it was fun to fun to go to go see that and the you know the the movie i'm sorry that yeah the documentary was as much about as much or more about vivian meyer's character and her relationship with the people and the children that she was a nanny for and all that kind of stuff

but for me the the story is really more about the photography part and, and there was this kind of a feeling that she was constrained and and you know when we looked at the pictures and what i saw on the web when maloof started posting and i don't know if you remember those days and was it 2009 yeah yeah when he started posting the pictures on the website and there was all this traction like and i was going through all these pictures they're great and everything and i'm like she you know

there was a kind of a sameness to all the pictures because it's just what maloof had in front of him you know of course yeah whatever but and then i learned in the in the documentary and what resonated with me again seeing it in the documentary is she did all the all this work as much when she had kids pushing a stroller as when she had free time to herself.

And the whole thing about she wanted a job where she had the freedom to go out on the street and do the photography and the little cassette tape recordings that she was making in the grocery store and all these strange little things that she was doing. Yeah. I thought, you know, went to her character, but her, her way to get her creativity in and picking a job that, that she was able to do. So that was, that was interesting to me.

I like just deliberately looking for that kind of work so that she could do that. What a great thing to like walk around with a kid and a camera because the kid is like your beard, right? Yeah. It's like, it breaks the ice. You know, I know there's that, there's the, there's a self portrait of her that I use Susan, one of my street photo classes is sort of the introduction to her. And it's her and one of the kids she's taking care of.

She's photographing through a storefront. So it's a self-portrait with this child. So I imagine that doesn't show up that much. Although there is a section in there where she's photographing children. Those are actually some of the best shots, I thought, of the kids. And they were just amazing. But, you know, to walk around, her personality is like, you know, she's from France, I believe.

No she was one in new york city but she lived in france i mean i was saying yeah she spent a lot of time there she's got a little bit of time yeah yeah the whole idea of the documentary was they thought her accent was put on and one of the guys that they talked to was a linguist who said was he was very pedantic about her accent that she put on that the vowels were too long or not long enough or whatever you could say the same of katherine heper and they all went to the

no but like no but I mean, or Cary Grant, right? Yeah. They all went to this school of learning how to speak in a certain way. I mean, anyway. But she's got this sort of, I want to say, pushy personality. I mean, I guess if you're going to be a nanny, you have to have some kind of authority. Yeah. You know, and, you know, if you can wrangle kids, you can probably wrangle people on the street, too, to get them to, you know, pose or just approach them to take a picture.

I mean, she's got a picture of Lena Horne, you know, and Lena Horne was pretty famous at the time that she was taking the picture.

Shirt and so you know you can wrangle lena horn for a second to grab a shot apparently she has other shots of other celebrities too i didn't see them in the show but there are other celebrities in i don't know if they're new york or chicago that that she photographed but you know the whole we all and this is not a new story for everybody who's listening to this right there might be some people who are listening to this who don't i'm actually surprised when i when i

teach my class i said how many people know about vivian meyer you know because it was a very social media thing that happened and and maybe it's because some of the i mean it's 2009 so that's a bit of years ago now already which is kind of weird to say yeah so maybe some people are just too young to have paid attention to it but again it's one of those things that like i would think more people would know about like when you think about a photographer more people would know about

her than you know maybe ansel adams started a lot of conversations in in you know in our periphery of people who We're not involved in photography. It's like, what's the Sivian Meyer thing? Or I saw, or there were some teenagers that were around us in the show when we went to. And they were, they were like, they had not been exposed through quote unquote street photography. They thought it was the best thing ever.

Oh, look, you know, the can't, the candid aspect of, you know, so different from what's on the smartphone. Like, and, and, you know, when you think 2009 is only two years into the iPhone, it's happening too fast, man. It's happening too fast. So there wasn't even really an entrenched smartphone, you know, street image.

Culture there but i just remember these young people going this is amazing like look at this guy he's fallen asleep on the train or whatever and this woman and they're like how did she do all this and like that's it was a perfect storm of things like her stuff being found and and the phone just starting off or instagram just starting off at the time i mean yes there's a couple years into the into the uh into the iphone but a lot of people are still using their computers and a lot

of you know websites and stuff but i was gonna say uh damn it what's about the show or the documentary well no okay so i was gonna say that everybody knows a lot of people know her story but not everybody know you know you know the the the elevator speech about her her story is that you know she may have been a hoarder and you know there were things perhaps you know she might have had some mental issues and you know why would she have a storage locker full of you know undeveloped film

and and and stuff like that and so from like you know if you skim these you do the you know the cliff notes version of her you know story it can sound like well you know is is her photography a result of you know some imbalance like you know you know something's going on with her life story that people like to hold onto. And I think that's just the way people are now, or I think always been. Like you always wanna kinda hear the dirt on somebody.

And you know, given our lives, we know that any story like this is more than just that surface stuff. We don't know why she had a storage locker full of film, or in processing, undeveloped film. Maybe it's because she couldn't afford to process it all, right? I gotta. Like me, I've got like, I got this bag of, oh my God, you know, 10 rolls of 120 film that I have yet to process. Now I'm not going to, I don't know, thousands of it, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

You know, you know, it doesn't, all these things don't add up to somebody necessarily who's, I don't want to say mentally imbalanced, which is a really hard. I don't even think we should be allowed to say that because we're all mentally unbalanced. If we want to start adding these things together, you know? So, when people approach her story from that point of view that, oh, well, you know, whatever, whatever conclusions they make from this.

Yes, she did some strange things, but, you know, put anybody's life under a microscope and we've all done these strange things. Well, she's on the fringe or a bit of an outsider. That's sort of an essential quality for a street photographer. I'm sorry, but that's just. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, looking at, you know, the list of, let's go down the list of street photographers. You know, I mean, the other one I was thinking about when I was looking at the show is Gary Winogrand.

I mean, in the sense of just, you know, New York urban, but another one who was more interested in maybe taking more pictures than looking back at what he has done. Because he also passed away with some, you know, enormous amount of film unprocessed and pictures on, you know, no contact sheets and stuff like that. And the list, I'm sure, is going to go on, you know, and on and on and on. So there's an article which I didn't quite read. I just did a little skim of it.

But I'll put the link in the show notes because it was interesting. It's from the New Republic. And it just talks about the trouble with writing about Vivian Meyer. But it's actually a little bit of a critique of a biography of her. So if anybody's interested, you can read that. But that's going down, you know, another way. But when someone looks at it, looks at her story from that point of view, from some sort of like armchair psychological thing, then it can diminish the work. Right.

Like the work has some sort of tinge to it or taint to it or something, whatever you want to say that. Oh, well, OK. okay, you know, in order for you to be a successful street photographer, you have to be a hoarder or you have to be, you know, whatever the label is that Vivian Meyer is. And it's a little aggravating when I see something like that. And again, you know, all I can do is relate to my own life.

And, you know, when I'm gone and someone's looking through my stuff, if ever, but anybody ever bothers that, I mean, what are the stories of this someone going to make up about, you know. My life story. Well, I remember in the documentary, and the discussion was a little bit after we went to the show and we were talking, the morality of publishing this work posthumously anyway, would she have wanted it? Well, I think we are better served by having them revealed and that we know

of her and about her. But that's two different points. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Right. She may not have wanted her stuff published and we're better off for having it. Like, oh, that's true. Yes. Yes. Okay. Well, I didn't say it right. Oh, I don't know. Maybe I'm just jumping down your throat. I'm not, I'm actually not trying to jump down. I'm just, we are better off.

I talk about this again with my class. Like I say, you know, you know, we are, it's great that this stuff didn't get tossed, you know, like, like somebody, you know, went through the, the wrong person might've bought that storage space. They might not have been able to see the potential in this stuff and just threw all this stuff in the garbage. And how many times has that happened before already with other people who have done the same thing?

But there was some indication somewhere that she had reached out to a printer in Europe someplace. So there is some evidence or some thought that she was kind of paying attention to maybe having her stuff.

Enough at some point that was in the documentary it was in the documentary too i forgot i haven't yeah she had made it she'd basically discussed her proposal of she's got boxes and she said and i mean boxes and boxes of of negatives to have printed yeah yeah and then on her notes she would always write even when she had even it was the local lab she'd say please use you know not glossy not glossy she didn't want glossy prints but yeah that was that was just sort of underway in those

final years and then when she died that's who claimed her like how did how did people knew that she was dead that's a good question i mean i i don't i remember in the story early on in the documentary john maluf is talking about he had figured out you know had seen all the receipts for all the film that had it was developed in prints and such and came up with the name you know v meyer whatever and then started calling around the you know figuring out the area codes in chicago

and so on and calling around and and finally got a name and then started looking around searching for and found the old bit of her which was just weeks or months before he did this research. So he just missed her by a short margin and it was just a write-up in the paper. Yeah. That he found. About her death? About her death, yeah. It was a death notice. Yes, we are better off for this. I look at this, again, it's another time capsule of a period that neither you or I were around.

And so there's, actually, I'll just enter, I'll enter. I also went to see the Paul McCartney show at the Brooklyn Museum, his photography show, that he did during, between 63 and 64. So that's the first American tour? The first American tour, right? So it was very limited to that. And part of my experience of going through that was, there was, I mean, I love the Beatles, and there was a nostalgia about that, but I realized it wasn't my history, you know?

It's not my period of time. My history is in the 70s, you know? That's when I was growing up and stuff. And there were, you know, You know, I was getting the second round of Beatles stuff for something that was going on. So it's really interesting for those of us who are not of the time that we're seeing, you know, we're not alive during the shots, many of the shots that Vivian Meyer's taking in the 50s and you and me in the early 60s.

And a lot of people you're talking about, the younger people, certainly are not. And yet we're somehow drawn to this time period of her work. And so it is this open door with her work to seeing places in New York that I recognize and, You know, I just noticed tonight that one picture of the woman standing in front of the public library library. Yeah. I've been on those steps.

Yes. Anytime I see. Oh, I've been seeing actually a lot of pictures of like in places that we walked down Fifth Avenue when you're in town. And I've actually been I think I might have seen the place where we photographed those two women who were taking pictures of each other. Yeah. I think I've seen another picture for someone who had taken in the fifties or sixties. I'm not entirely sure. And I can't remember who the picture was from.

I was anyway, I should have anyway, but yeah, the same thing of the day I was walking by myself at Broadway and canal. There's a picture of a, it's a kind of more of a famous picture and I've forgotten the photographer's name and street guy. And it's like, I know that building. I had shot down canal from Broadway. Cause I, I went to the McDonald's there to have a, have a soda.

So I'm like, I know exactly where that is. And then I looked and I look at the picture I took of a woman who was holding a pair of glasses and her eyes was closed, kind of a fashion, any kind of thing. And it's the same building right there. There it is. That's a, I nailed it. So I always love that. That's so much fun. I love, I love that. Like that triangulation that you can do, you know? Yeah. You know, and I see her, I mean, And she's, you know, photographing in New York, Chicago.

I think she did some in Boston, if I'm not, but not a lot. I think most of her stuff was Chicago and New York. But, again, it all has, there is a familiarness to it. Anyway, I walked out of the show. First of all, they had this downstairs at the gallery, which was full of books. And, you know, I showed you pictures of it, right? I was taking pictures and texting them to you.

And it was all I could do. I actually asked the, I asked the, my whole plan was I was going to go to the show and then it was, I thought maybe I'd go out and get lunch in the neighborhood and. Anyway, my timing was weird. And so I went down there and I had, I had, this was the third day I've had the camera with me or actually this is the first week I had the X 100 V with me.

So I'm already wired up by looking at her pictures. Well, you know, when you come out of a show like that, you're like, I got to start, I'm in the city and I got to take pictures. So I come out of that and I go down to the reception area and I say, look, can I come back in if I want to just buy some books? And they're like, yeah, you can come back in. I mean, the wall was, I mean, I would have walked out with a lot of books, right?

I do want to get the book from the, I don't know if there's a book specifically about the show, but there is a book from, what is it, the company Tashin? Yeah. Am I pronouncing that right? Tashin. I want to say Tashin. I think it's, I think that's the book that has the same prints. And anyway, I said, well, let me go and, you know, I'm going to go walk the streets. I'm going to go find some lunch and then I'll come back and buy some books.

And anyway, I just, I took a one way trip down to union square and I was just taking pictures along the way. I was just like, I set the camera up to black and white and I was like, okay, here we go. And I was, I was fired up in, in my, like just having seen her work and even Bruce Gilden's work after that, and even, you know, skim through some of the books in there. And I was like, so I ended up just making a one way trip to the subway and I'm like, look, I'm right near the subway.

Way let me just get in and save myself a few hundred dollars yeah and and so i did manage to walk out of the books but i have to go back to this place before they close up i think they're gonna they're gonna try to find a new location but that's a good thing but this location was really nice and there's a bunch of books i want to get but that coming out of a show like that or even even the mccartney show which was in a you know this different thing a different well Well, in some way it was.

In some way it wasn't. You know, when looking at Paul McCartney's stuff, it felt very personal. Meyer's stuff somehow also feels personal. I mean, there's a lot of her personality comes out in those pictures. And so it felt more intimate. And also compared to the, I mean, Bruce Gilden's pictures downstairs. I don't want to talk about that too much. But what a, you know, night and day difference of work.

Work and you know i spent a lot of time in the gildan show too it was only one floors where the stuff and the prints were huge and and he's coming across it coming you know street photography or people or portraits in such a different way you know if it was only bruce gildan i'm not sure i would have walked out of that well i don't know i don't know if i walked out with that same kind of energy but but the myers myers work was was really captured something and and oh so this is is what I did.

I went and I saw it on a Thursday and, So I saw it last Thursday. So, so a week ago, we're Wednesday right now. So last Thursday I went to see the show. I had a street photography class at the library on Saturday. Right. And so what I did, was it the library? Yeah, it was the library. What I did was I retooled my slideshow because usually I'm showing a bunch of photographers.

And so what I did was I stripped out a few photographers in there and I took all the shots that I put up in that gallery because it basically went around in the gallery. I took pictures of every one of her prints. Because I wanted to make a slideshow for my street photography students. I said, well, let's do a deep dive as much as we can on Vivian Meyer. Like, go see this show before it closes. But if not, here's what, like, to me is a very approachable style of street photography.

Very intimate, intimate style of street photography. It's also very urban, you know, so I'm in Brooklyn.

And so it's like, I love to show pictures that are, that sort of fit what I think people can do like the class that i'm teaching is in a library that's very art deco on eastern parkway and it's a grand army plaza and there's a lot of you know if you if you just walked out the door you could see like oh myers could have taken pictures here right because except for the people's outfits like everything kind of looks you know the cars but everything kind of looks the

same from like her maybe her time period so i wanted to make it approachable so that someone could relate to it i don't know if i don't know if the class felt the same way but i was like i I was still gushing from that. I was like, got to see this stuff. Yeah. And, and I just did like a little slideshow of her stuff. She was like, I said, you know, I'm not going to talk about it. I'm just going to show you the pictures and experience it.

So I was, I was wired up for that. And I might leave that in for the, for the next time I do a street photography class.

I think, I think her work sort of really is a, her story is really interesting. So if you go and see the documentary where you read about her, all the stuff that's just people want to spend time with, um. There's that, there's the, there's the, I think the stuff that we can all resonate with, the secrets, the person who we are, and then this curiosity of looking with, seeing the world with a camera and recording it.

And then the whole posthumous thing, you know, there's this, you know, sort of, one of the things I like to tell my students is that your photography is going to outlive you most likely, you know, and how you, what you take pictures of today.

What is it going to tell people in the future about the time that you live in now right and i think i think her picture for some reason i know i could say this about a lot of other people but for some reason her work you know really is sort of exclamation point on that on that on that idea that i that i let i tell the students so yeah i would agree completely yeah so i'm glad you got to see that show and uh it's a good thing yeah and i can't remember if i said this like

oh i said this already the prints were you know so for those people who are listening to this show who don't get a chance you might be in some place where you can't you know necessarily get into the city or go to see but if you can ever get a chance to see photography show in a gallery and look at prints there is nothing like looking at you know stuff on a computer or i would say a book you know if you have a really good printed book it's okay

but it's it's still not the same there's something almost three-dimensional about, you know, really well-printed work, and three-dimensional in a way that's not like 3D, you know, Marvel Universe kind of shit.

But just something, you know, brings out, black and white or color photography that's just printed with that with um with care you can just really see that so i i recommend highly if you're in the city or you're going to be able to come to new york city in the in the near future the the meyer show is up until hang on a second. I think it's september photo graph east there we go uh i'm doing this live so sorry All right.

Graphist. Let's see. Okay. Tickets and tours. 20 bucks. Yeah. The show's 20 bucks. And let's see. Oh, darn it. It wasn't their website. Anyway, I think they're closing up shop in September. So try to get there before they have to close up because they'll obviously be closed for a while before they find a new place.

So that's kind of weird. word yeah they're considered a museum so i would i would say that it's a museum 45 000 square feet romanesque revival landmark opened up in december of 2019 so they haven't been around for long so i would just see if you could get there and go see the show and then the the bruce gildan pictures are are also worth seeing so anyway so i think i don't know if that's a deep dive enough or not, but I think, oh, right, here we go. Until September 29th.

So you got 31 days-ish, I think. Yeah, 31 days. Yeah. Cool. All right. Oh, cool. Cool. Are we done? Yeah. We talked a long time. We talked, we talked about different things too, which is good. We had a lot to catch up on. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess so. So yeah. Oh, one last thing. There's the, the, um, I'll put the website on the, the photographist, uh, website on our show notes, but the other show that's up there, the, um, guy I was talking about who did, uh, Polaroids, uh, Jean Andre Antoine, uh, from Prince street with love. So he did all these uh expired fuji uh instant film prints so everything's four by five.

And he shot with a crown graphic camera uh and these great portraits and what's so nice about them is that the prints are really kind of rough looking uh and they're and they're printed at size a few of them are printed large with the picture with the polaroid sort of pasted on the person's face so the face is covered with the polaroid that is enlarged but it's all on prince street in new york city um and it's it's just a nice uh i wish i had a better kind of venue in it because it's a

little bit sort of crammed together but the photos are just really nice made me want to get my polaroid camera out and see if i could find that kind of film again so anyway all right Right. I think we should wrap. All right. Where are we looking for you in the world of things and people and places? Well, you can find me on Vero and Twitter slash X at, uh, W Ross and photo, uh, Instagram, which is where I post most of my stuff, including the stuff we were talking about tonight.

The, uh, the, uh, thing itself, uh, pictures from my hometown. That's at, uh, at Ward Ross and fine art on Facebook. You can find me at word rosin photo and my personal website is called the rosin.ca. R O S I N dot C A and our unofficial show sponsor is Ornis photo or N I S dot photo. What about you, Antonio? Where can we find you in the internets? Ah, well, just, just look for me on Instagram at am Rosario photo and Vero at am Rosario.

My website is am Rosario.com. Just type in am Rosario. You'll find. Uh, Facebook is Rosario photo. So facebook.com Rosario photo are, um, subs. We have a sub stack newsletter. Uh, we put out, we just put out an article that you had written a while back, but it seems to have resonated with a lot of people. So we've gotten a bunch of people signing up, uh, based on, you know, having just read your article. Cool. Uh, some more, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I actually like, uh, like sub stack.

It's a nice way to sort of put, it's a nice, um, I don't know. It's like a nice outlet for, you know, for this kind of stuff. Anyway, our sub stack is streetshots.substack.com. So please subscribe to us. We put out, we're not crazy and putting out lots of stuff, but I think that the newsletters that we put out are gems. Also, if you want to leave us a voicemail or a question, go to speakpipe.com slash streetshots.

And you can leave us a short little voice message. We'd love to have some questions that we can answer on a day that we're recording. And if you want to support the show, and we could use the support sometimes, but you could buy us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash Antonio Rosario. So that's it. And another one in the can, as it were. As it were. Yeah. So I wonder if anybody from the class is listening to this podcast.

You guys subscribe? Did you listen? i hope so sign up sign up yeah so anyway you know uh this is uh we're now gonna our next one will be well not quite fall but uh we're we're moving along here so thanks for listening to us tonight, and uh board thanks for hanging out with me as well always a pleasure and it is a pleasure and i can't wait to run into my other room where there's air conditioning because i'm boiling in here. Do it while you still can.

I will. I will. So anyway, thanks everybody and everybody have a good night and see you in a couple of weeks. See you later. Good night. Music. You got a cold brew going there? Yeah, cold brew. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be the only thing that keeps me cool, I think. Cool and properly caffeinated. Properly Prophesly Prophesly Cabbageated Cabbageated Cabbageated, I can't even talk. Are you a neighbor drunk? A neighbor? No.