Episode 105 : PBA Legend Mark Baker!

Twenty twenty four is here in full swing, and that means it's time for a new Year's resolution. Check in with our friends that Manscaped newsflash, it's never too late to level up your grooming game and keep your bush tamed. Manscapes New Lawnmower five point zero Ultra is every man's cheek code to look good, feel good, and turn the page on confidence this year. Whether you're going for a trim or that clean shaven look, this trimmer has you covered.

Trusted by over ten million men worldwide, Now is the time to get a grip on your grooming with our exclusive offer. Go to manscaped dot com and use the promo code straight up for twenty percent off plus free shipping. The ball has dropped, but don't drop the ball on your balls. I can tell you this. I am one person that is not usually ever good at holding to my New Year's resolutions every single year. But this year I want to make a point to look better and feel better. And there's only

one way to do that. That's with the MVP of twenty twenty four man Skaves fifth generation lawnmower. It's not just a trimmer, it's your grooming sidekick equipped with two skin safe blade heads, a standard one for taking a little off the top and new foil blade to go smooth wherever your heart desires. It's like having a personal silace at your fingertips or well, wherever you need it. And do we mention it's waterproof because a trim and a shower is

the only way to start today. And for my men who want the full grooming experience, look no further than mans Gave's Performance Package five point zero. In this grooming kit, you'll get the trusted lawnmower, Manskate's ear and nose hair trimmer, and essential aft care products such as the crop Sewer, which is a ball after shave lotion, and the crop Preserver and anti shafing ball de order it. Yeah, it's the ordering for your balls. Bet you

didn't think you needed that. As a gesture for the new year, they even threw in two free gifts, the Boxer's two point zero and the Shed two point zero toiletry bag because they know good and well you're still rocking your boxer from high school. Let's face it. Resolutions might come and go, but a well groomed you is here to stay. Thanks to Manscaped so you can get twenty percent off and free shipping with our special promo code straight Up

at manscaped dot com. Embrace a new you and definitely embrace a new trimmer courtesy of manscaped. Once again, go to manscape dot com complete your order, use our promo code straight Up for twenty percent off and free shipping. We thank Manscape for sponsoring this podcast. The following podcast is brought to you exclusively by the rad rob Radio Network. This is PBA Champion Kyle Trupe, Heyl Jigo Ledger here at Jeff wriggles here from eleventh Frame dot com. Hey,

guys, Chuck Ritchie here formerly a BOWLTV. Hey, this is Ryan Schaeffer of Track staff at Valley Bowling Center in Waverley, New York, and you're listening to Straight Up Five with Johnny Petrackleia Junior, Yo, the boys from Straight Up five, rad Row dot Orcho and of course JP Junior Pick it Out, Fear the Fro Baby. Welcome to Straight Up five with Johnny, a hard hitting, in depth, cutting edge look into the world of bowling. This podcast will not only cover all things bowling, but will also

give you a wrong look into real life issues. You'll get unfettered access into the mind of one of the most gifted bowlers of this or any other generation an they claim it. So without further Ado, Let's introduce you to the hosts of the show, Brad Rob, Rob Francois, Ro Rob Francois, Doctor Ocho, Doctor Ocho, and the incomparable Johnny Petraglia Junior John Petraglia Junior. Hey, guys, looking back to Straight Up five with Johnny Petraglia Junior.

I'm your host, Rad Rob Rob Francois. This is episode number one oh five and we have a very special guest with us tonight. Who isn't here right now are my two co hosts, Johnny Junior and doctor Ocho, which hopefully we'll be here in a second, So hopefully in the next four or five minutes they will be here. Uh, but we are going to continue on as usual. Let's see who's here, Chuck, Richie is here? Good evening, Chuck. Uh. This this is a bucket list thing

for me tonight. I watched this this man that we have here coming on night on ABC as a kid, and uh was just had the total package. So but we're going to show some highlights of Mark Baker's career as we normally do. Hello, John spron what's going on? Dave Picow, what's up? Let's go, Let's do this. Here is a highlight package of the career of the one and only Mark Baker. Bob Hanley is still in it, but he must strike. He as a possible two and thirteen.

This would be a tremendous comeback. Much of the respect I have for your pros as the fact that well, in the case of Handley, three open frames and you come back, don't with your dabber down. You just keep back. We're paid for our performance, not our ability. Right. Trust is a must, and that was just too much. Mark Baker just took

a trip to the fire stone with that shot. So you're looking for a first time winner the Professional Bowlers George telecast from Miami Ploda Don Carter's Kendall Lane's Handley with a one at each three with a Baker's finals hand a chat with him beg victory for this twenty two year old California. The air conditioning popped. Doing it wakes me up at night sometimes. Oh forget who first says shot, We're gonna have a hurling Chris. Okay, let's see what it

is. Here. Here's what happened. The headpin went to the sideboard and knocked out the twopin. Baker apparently thought, now watch the action of the headpin. It goes the sideboard twist line the two four and eight. Now the two pin is standing right Here comes the rack. The five pin has hit the back of the twopin as it rolls around. Now watch if the machine touches the pin before the pin falls over. Here we go. It's rolling. All the benefits of videotype replay. And I see the NFL football

is going to try that, and it's very true. Then look at this. Here's his reaction, and here's the ruling. You cannot have the machine help you in the pinfall. So the pin is reset. Baker will have to shoot the spare. If he makes it, he'll lead by twenty three. In that frame, you can only say proved that he can do push ups. That's about it. What a tough flake, but a man that Turner's two fifty three and three victories, and that frame will long be remembered.

The six last year is he talking to that and he's on the deck. He's going to believe. Even Mark Baker couldn't believe he's going to lose the tournament. Look at Baker's jumped up Walter Ray Williams has to make the eight ten split to win. Watch the pin action. The ball hangs too wide. We said he wasn't playing to fight the correct shot. He knocks the two pin down. Walter Ray Williams must make the eight ten split to win the tournament. He's up in the tenth frame. Here he goes he

has to have it. Baker wins in a bizarre championship match and over on Bark pass one eight or three or one seven? Day six, Mark Baker moved to tears. I thought there was no chance will be back the big one right here, not gonna get there, and Baker is going to be the winner. Yeah, and Baker knows it. Throws the towel down him. Now all he's thinking isn't going to stay behind the file. He's seen the building savoring this victory. Oh for five to the top spot that he

here two years ago. Outstanding performance, just not outstanding enough. Mark Baker obviously enjoying the fruits of his labor. The Baker has fouled before, as he did at the Firestone last year. He stayed behind the line though, leaves only the Tampa and that's just enough. He has no problem, Baker, a possible two seventy nine games in the driver's seat, just has to

pick up his bone ball, all right? Or Steve wonderlike back of a game two thirty here in Portland, Oregon, that's the winner or the winner, Mark Baker, it's a big two fifty five to Steve Wonder Las two thirty. How's a big expanse here filled with people haven't been here since eighty two of PBA event, and they welcomed everyone back and especially the winner, Mark Banker from California. Before we bring in Ark Baker and man, what

a highlight package that was. And I can't wait to talk about that Walter Ray match. But our co hosts are here. Let's start off with our first co host, the man with the shiniest mask and bowling. He is the resident doctor of Straight Up five casually late as always, Doctor Rochow, what's going on out? How am I late? Just just how my late? Though? For real? How my lead? Well? I mean your

agel some timeless so I guess. I guess you're not late. That very sexy hand next to you is the man with the name of the Marquis. He's number seven in the program, number one in your hearts. Mister Johnny Petrachlia Junior. What's going on? JP? You know, just another fantastic Wednesday here with you gentlemen rocking my Bill O'Neill fever hat this week. I hope you guys enjoy it. I like it. Hell yeah, you guys are on opposite side. It's going to mess me up. I know it's

bothering me too. Can we flip that? Well, then we can't see. Man. What's weird is because now it reachs forward to me. You're going to see leto if it's the wrong way. What's up, Zell. Good to see you as you can switch chairs. Pleasure to be here playing

Ocho fans in the chat. I understand why. It's all right. It's the peak seven to seventy six the other night, just you know, throwing a round sphericle bowling ball that played well, yes, yeah, talk about serious serious tear here, Ocho. Like, I don't think you've shot under seven to fifteen like the last month, right, that's not true. Seriously, some times I watched your bowl, You're threw six in there. I threw a six to eighty in there. But it's like I said that,

I I that blue ball, the spherical one. I analyzed it and it was working perfectly with my ball rep which, by the way, again, I'm going to keep talking about my hat because I do have Bill O'Neal fever and love to see him make yet another first cut this week. But thanks to Eric Knaowski for this awesome hat. What perfect timing for me to not only get a new hat from a good friend, but to also rocket during Bill O'Neil's fantastic tear at the start of this season, So thanks Eric.

I absolutely agree he is an early front runner for Player of the Year already, which actually it's not even that long with a seasons, so I mean we're we're almost halfway through, so yeah, Bill's on a tear. But tonight isn't about Bill. It is about our special guest. He is considered one of the top bowllying coaches in the entire world who had a pretty decent PBA career as well. Let's not make him wait any longer, please, welcome to the show, mister Mark Baker. Good evening, Mark you guys,

thank you for joining us tonight. How are you, my friend? I'm doing excellent, see you, sir, Johnny started off. I know you got plenty of questions. Well, first I'll start it off simply by simply by saying, thank you so much for being here, Bakes. I mean, your time is as valuable as anybody is, and the fact that you go out of your way to join us here and spend an hour, hour and a half with us is really really awesome. So thank you extremely

from the bottom of all of our hearts a for being here. I'm going to dive right in, and it's it's no secret your knowledge of the game. You're literally one of the most renowned coaches in all of the world and have been a long time. You've and you just continue to build on your legacy for not only everything you know, but the the people that you have

behind you, that that that are under your tutor, your tutelage. I just want to know when did you decide to sway your When did you decide to sway from actually competitive bowling into the world of helping everybody that was that was a pretty easy decision. I hurt my back in the December of ninety I had a real good year in ninety and then I picked up a trash can lid in the backyard of my house and I knew something wasn't right.

I had an MRI done about a couple weeks later, and I had major back surgery on February fourth of ninety one, which in effect into my bowling career. So the coaching didn't take the coaching I did. I I dabbled in the coaching. People wanted lessons, I'd give them a lesson. I'd never schedule the next one. I didn't really want to do it. I didn't think I was a very good coach, and people kept calling me and kept calling me, and I tried to coach in the a nineties. I

had some personal issues I needed to take care of. Tried it again about fifteen years ago, and it's worked out pretty good ever since. It was never a life calling, but now that I've done it for this long, this is definitely what I've been meant to do. That I obviously speaking from a first hand experience, see the see the way you work and the things that you do and it's a fantastic And was I muted the whole time?

No, no, no, you're good. You're good. I've seen it firsthand, the commitment that you have, and it's pretty it's fantastic appreciation. So yeah, you were at probably what my camp bakes. You were the solid so you were there, so you got to see it in action. How we try to make everything run. It's crazy, and we got it all done. It was always good and good events. Where next ding? You know, April twenty third's the next camp. So by forty second camp,

Wow, my goodness, forty second camp and it's it's crazy. Your your camps sell out as as fast as Taylor Swift tickets. I would not I don't think I would equate those. It's always a little work. I think I'm at four thirty. I lost one or two. I think I'm at thirty four right now, which is a good number. Thirty six is a sellout. She is a joggernaut, that's uh. I'm not a Taylor Swift type music type person, but you have to tip your cap to her.

She works hard, obviously understand social media better than anybody of all time. And you know, the kids love her. So you got to tip your cat. Anybody's made a billion dollars doing anything pretty impressive, damn right, And you know what that kind of sorry, that kind of feeds to my next question because you know, like like her and other Titans, you know, it's it's the progression. It's it's the continuation of building on something

off of other things. So let's talk about aside from the career of Mark Baker, aside from the from Camp Bakes, let's talk about your newest pregression in what you're doing with video series. What's going on there? Well, you know, I have this very cool place, like coach called the Westpac

Training Center. I got a little private two lane center and after about six months of working here, I got to see the game from a completely different standpoint where I'm watching people, you know, the camera set up on strike seeker, and I get spect on every shot the player's coming at me with a camera. I'm seeing a front view, and I just thought, you know, I did a DVD. I did a book twelve years ago or thirteen years ago, and I did a DVD and I swore off I would

never do anything again because those things are in labor. Love you really don't make any money, and it takes a year of your life, and then all people do is take shots at you. I'm like, but two things. I had a very unique view, and I really want to do one more thing. And I really thought that two handers deserve their own instructional video.

I've done the two of the two headed camps in Las Vegas. I've had a chance to work with VI and True and Chris Sloan and Anthony Simonson, and it's those two handed bowlers are that they're fanatical, and I thought, there has to be a video for these kids. We can't just throw them to the wolves because some of the stuff on YouTube, me being nice is crap. It's just terrible. So let's be honest. So I decided to do something. I put my money where my mouth was, and fortunately

I landed on two pretty good models. I got Anthony Simonson and I got Jason Belmany, without a doubt, the two best who ever lived the two handed So we all came together, we put a lot of work into it and it came out unbelievably well. It's a pleasure to watch, and it's cool you talking about the two handers. Other than what they see in front of them, guys like a Simon or abelmore Ra Kyle. They don't have

any literature or like any previous books written about what they do. Like it's like when you know the old school mentality of say, my dad, you know, you got to make sure your shoulders are square perpendicular to the foul line, follow through towards your target, keep the coup of your elbow facing

forward. I mean, even going back to your book, I remember one of my favorite pages in your book was I think it was like page seven or eight where you had eight completely different bowlers in the exact same spot at the completion of their pivot stuff going into their slide. I think Carolyn dorn Balader was in there and let them Manicelli just to name a couple of people in there. But it's crazy that all the other elements don't necessarily apply anymore.

You know, we see Zach Wilkins just because I saw him shot three hundred today, you know his follow through goes way further left across his body than even say I'm Fagan's. And you know a long time ago that was like a big no no. And the same thing with say Yesper's third and fourth steps leading into his slide, like there really is no true way to get to the line at all. We can go as far back as looking at somebody like Mike Lickstein, but they're all in that same spot at the

at the completion of the swing. So my question to you when it comes to the two handers is do you see some similarities there with the bigtime compared to a tradition? So I have you know Simonson and Belmo. Everybdy tells me how different they are, but he will look at my video from the front from their third step on, they're identical. I mean they are mirror images of each other. So my premise was, how can these two guys

have such a great record in majors because majors aren't about reverie. Majors aren't about who can hook at the most. Majors are about who's the most accurate. Because majors tend to be brutally tough, and that stuff they bowl in the US Open now is just nasty. Every day it's worse. And then you know the who leads it, Belmo and Simo one two. So when I got to bring him into the training center, and I also I did a one headed video. I brought in Danie mc keeying, Chris Prather,

and Dave Housted, so I had no slouches involved. I mean, is were all everybody has. I think we had twenty eight majors between all the players. But when you measured who was the most accurate, Belmo and Simo were not by far. They they had better numbers. Here's how good Belmo was. I show this thing called the baker Box. I wanted three shots

from every pro, so fifteen shots to hit this certain zone. Belmo's we had to use his three worst shots, so he hit six one and forty five feet, six four forty five feet and six point seven at forty five feet. Because I showed the other ten they were all six point four forty five feet, I would have looked like we were. It would have looked like I just used the same video over and over. So I actually used three of Jason's bad ones and it was still the three best ones. So

you don't win fifteen majors because your rev rae's high. Everybody has a high reverrae. Now that's that's not a that's not a thing. I mean the average reve rate on tour is just through the roof an average revere when I can watch my son bull JBT and JT's through the roof, so I wanted to show, Yes, they both both complete different from the side, but when he gets to the third step, how they bleed off to the left and their pivost step replaces it, and then then their slides off their pivot

step. When I was showing Jason, I was drawn lines through his eyes from his third step through a slide. His head doesn't move lateral on an inch, so your swing lines up off off your you know, your shoulder swing, so his head's not moving, so his hands are going the same place, So I measure their timing was exactly the same. They dropped their hips exactly the same. The biggest difference is Simonson just tilts really early and

Jason tilts after his swing goes back. After that happens, they're kind of the same guy. Yes, Anthony's lower and he has more neeban and more tilt, but other than that, they do a lot of things the same as they have a different style. Have you noticed anything mechanically that I don't want to say isn't sound because we always talk about this how you know. Look, you said you had back surgery in ninety one. I'm an anatomy

guy clearly who doesn't a mask and having anatomy degree. But when, uh, we we talked to Belmo a couple of weeks ago, and we were talking about how like we don't know the longevity of the two hander because we don't know I mean the mechanics. If anything, they're using their bigger muscles,

which means they're probably more stable than the one handed guys. And there's less torque on the pelvis, less torque on the si joints, less less torque on the plant leg even when you when you stop or or slide or so and Belmo and I'm sure you probably have some some little injuries, you're not none. And I was like, Jesus, you're forty years old, you don't have any. So I'm curious if you noticed anything mechanical that you could pinpoint and say, well, in twenty years, that could be.

But again, we're dealing with the two best two handed bowlers too, so tough to kind of say, oh, yeah, I mean, I mean you can only go by what Jason had the longest run and mean, yeah, he doesn't. It doesn't seem to. It's when you I spent so much time studying the two handers to do the video. I mean literally, you know, fifty hours of just watching them, trying to find what was unique about him and what was the same, And after a while, Jason's

just fundamentally sound. That's all I can come up with. Looks effortless. It's like a Mariano rivera fastball. It looks so effortless that it's like a normal thing, like him just walking to go to the couch and he just throws a bullet ball with it. I think the term is what efficiency of motion? There you go. So if you actually take Barnes and you do you slow Chris down from the side, and you take Jason, and you

just account for a second arm. They're actually their third steps and how their ball swings, and Jason's actually kind of gets the swinging a little bit late for a two hander. Jason and Barnes have a lot of things in common. So I look at like Jason just became the one, the two in version of Chris Barnes, who was the most fundamentally sound bowler I ever had had the opportunity to work with and the pleasure to work with. So Jason

does Simo's unique. Jason's just fundamentally sounds. So when I coach my son Gage, I really do look at Need myself very tall, so I really do look at Jason. I try to. I try to get my son to mimic his footwork, his swinging, his timing. I mean Jason, I mean his record is really good. I mean I bowled on tour for living. I know how it is. I'll put it this way. When they did their videos here, we just put them on specto. I put

tape on the lane. Throw between the tapes, put the eight and nine as many times as you can row, and Jason and Simonson, at separate times, kind of got into their own contest to throw the most strikes. When Jason got to like fifteen or sixteen strikes, he said, hey, mate, how many do you need? Oh? I said, oh, I was done at five. I just want to see all one. You can do this, and he just looked over and he said, you got

the tape in the right place today, I can do this forever. And Dave Houston leaned over and said, I've never said that so and then Simon come in. He did basically the same thing. And I remember Dave saying, I'm so happy I don't bowl against these two guys for a living now because they were they were really impressive in person. So as of as of injuries, just seems to pick it up, walk up, and throw it. He seems to be the most natural of all of them. Jason,

like you said, he's never said he's never had an injury. I know they've had some world series where guys get tired at the end. Jason's like, if you want to do this again, let's go. So as of now, I don't really I don't seem to have any injuries with two hnders. But it hasn't been around long enough, you know, like like you

know, look at me. I was thirty one years old. I was a pretty good athlete at one time, and because of my my over extended to push away and I really leaned on it and driving what the doctor thought was just driving too many miles at the time, just sitting there and that you know, you're in the band, you know, driving My back got bad and I was a pretty good athlete, so I only made it,

you know, nine years. I think the biggest advantage going for the guys at bowl for tour in s a's compared to my era, they don't really bowl very much. They're not putting in you know, I put in a thousand games a year on tour, probably a thousand games of practice bold regionals and PCBs, and you know I was putting in two three thousand games a year on the right way more than I did too. They're not bowling as many tournaments, and they don't bowl that stretch where I would leave home at

the end of January, come home at the end of April. They're not doing that three four months at a time, ten weeks in the summer, seven weeks in the fall. I have both about thirty one to thirty two every year. So I think because they're not as many games that they might that might help them, that might help them not get injured. That's what I was just gonna say. Because you're Robos, I'll send it to you. Just want to close with this. I mean, your shortest format tournament

during your your tenure on tour was forty two games. Shortest ever. You guys are bowling forty two games, forty eight games, or fifty six games in the case of the US Open, and that was but if you made the show, now you got enough time to drive to the next stop before the pro am. I mean, I mean obviously you know I watched my dad do it as well. In the same time, it's you really got to give kudos to guys like yourself and guys that have figured out a way

to manage their lives according to that life. And not to take anything away from the guys out to now, these guys nowadays are ten times even more advanced, you know, mentally, you know they got all the all, the all thing makes today's player better than my player. I didn't have mean a nineteen eighty five. I was high average on tour. I'd say the thirty weeks I bowled, I threw a black angle twenty six and it was the same one, three sst two to two eight, no grips, some

sleeve, no extra hole, same ball. I would walk out the bowl with the ball on my shoulder and a towel. What land am I on tonight? Boys, Let's get after it. And I made twenty three finals that year, and I was the first guy ever to be high average with the most games bowled Walterray after that annihilated that record, but nobody most guys

that went high average at that time were was Mark Marshall. Nur won at like eleven years in a row, and I'd beat I spared in the tenth the last game of the show and the title match to beat Marshall by point zero one for high average. So I threw one ball pretty much all year.

Now they don't throw one ball three games. So the managing equipment and you know, I tried to explain to my you know, the people that bowl, like, yeah, we went from first arrow to fifth arrow every tournament and if you bowl a squad or B squad, you got the end

of a in at night, you would be a fifth arrow. These guys do it in three games, which we took six twelve, so twenty four games for our guys to get from between first second arrow and then you were piping it off fifth arrow with the yellow out of the with the blue dot the last couple of games of qualifying. These guys do that in a round. So we didn't make the moves as fast, and we did switch ball,

we didn't have as many options to switch balls. I mean, I was going to go for my black angle to my yellow out to my white dot. I had negative leverage and I had three quarter's finger and three quarters top, so I had like two layouts the same ball over and over. These guys are magicians with the bowling balls. So I think that makes I think that gives them the nod because the physical games are physical games. I

don't think ours are better and worse in the day. You let Don Johnson loose as nineteen now and give Don Johnson two years, he'd be in the top twenty money winners. Just Dick Weber. I mean, the guys that were talented, it didn't matter what area. And you put Jason Molmony and Chris Barnes back in the sixties, they'd have figured it out. Yeah, we've had that discussion many times on the show about which era was better, who would have been better, you know, with what conditions, with what

equipment, And I mean it pretty much just cancels out. I mean, you're going to have the best of the best no matter what area you're in. They just adapt to whatever. You know, the trend is, you know, whether it's equipment or or lane's you know, going for wood is synthetic from your thing to resin so many different variables and factors. The best are always going to figure it out, and as we're seeing this year,

it's it's always the same guys on top. I did want to ask you, from a coaching standpoint, when you look at somebody like Kyle Trupe, who is a two hander and has a little bit of a different style than Simon and bellmo one thing, I realize that he doesn't have a very high follow through. He just kind of just puts the ball out there. Just from a coach's standpoint, do you think that's I mean, obviously it's right for him, but would you would you kind of try to tweak his fall

through? No, because if you ever, I mean, if you walk up and you mess around from behind and you just grab Kyle, you better be ready. He is super strong because of his strength. I think if he had the full fall through, his Kyle strength is that ability to really change speeds and go dead straight like in the US so many one he got

left through a shiny ball, slowed it down, had tremendous touch. I think his short fall through allows him to really manipulate his rotations or tilts, whatever you want to call it how he gets the ball to shape on the back. I think his shorter abbreviated fall through. He's got so much touch there and he's so strong he doesn't need to get us far through it because he's really got his legs underneath them. Kyle's really strong. So everybody has

their own style. What I would say is Kyle and Vi are more like one handers at both two handed right for Jason is the ultimate two hander, and Simo is just Simon was just a little bit of a you know, he's he's just he's p Webber, right right. Thanks. I want to feed off that because that was a great point, Rob, because you're talking about Kyle's strength when you grab him from behind. So for those of our viewers that that don't know Mark or I've never seen Mark, Mark is a

stud. He's a tall anymore. By Mark's an old dude. Now I'm turning sixty three next month. Man, you don't have to be modest, not here. But because this is a dead serious question Mark that I have for you as a fan and a spectator of your game. For as big and strong and tall as you are, you had a very short backswing comparatively speaking, was that. Because of that, my backswing was a little higher when I went on tour, but my batsman got shorter when I first went

on tour because my ball wouldn't hook. I mean, it was just where I grew up as with a tunnel oil. They had you know, mixed vaseline in there, so I always had a kind of a short swing. I went on tour and the lanes were so hard I had to slow my ball down. Got through it really hard when I came on tour, but

my ball wouldn't hook at the right place. So you know, we didn't really use brake point then, so I had to abbreviate slow my feed down, get my swing shorter, and I had had a lot more rotation because we bowled on such trash would we bowled in places where the Syracuse where you weren't playing out because you played out, your ball hit the nails by first arrow and the ball would chunk. So hey, we couldn't play first arrow. Now I get to play fit therero I finished sixth there, but you

literally couldn't play parts of the lane because the nails were sticking up. We didn't bowl in any palaces. We bowled in some real shitholes. So are the heads hooked so much on tour that I had to change my I had to tuck my pinky. You know, Roth was, you know, the master, I don't know. I took my pinky. I had to slow it down. I had to get way more around it just to compete on

tour because they hooked so much. So my swing got shorter. But then I got right, could really load up with my right leg and get my elbow to bend before it became a thing, and I could really get up on my wrist and just create a different release than what everybody told me was. I had a different reason everybody else. To me, it was just me throwing the ball. Like Ozio is always ennambor with how I threw it. How do you do that? I don't know. It just rolls up

and rolls off. So I never thought about my hand. I was just trying to get the ball to the front and get it to hit. So I think it was just more of a product of the environment because they were so the lanes were really hard on tour. Their scores were so low compared to now. High average now is around two twenty eight. When I was high average on Tour. I was to thirteen. They were dirt every week, I mean one hundred and eighty over. You made the finals every week

average shoo ten. You were bowling forty two games, And like you said earlier, you just didn't have all the tools, like if the lane sucked, you couldn't go drills afresh. You know, after that movie in twenty Minutes and Lichi's polishing machine, there weren't a lot of options, But there were a lot of options after I moved this way, I'm leaving a bucket. Well, it were like when you read older Riverside, I shoot three hundred the first game of B Squad, I come down the low end I

got. You know, mister, I am following Houston. How's this fair? They hook a little bit, like how much he goes a little bit? I just shot three hundred. I give it a quick five and three left. I got one on the left, so then I shoot. I won ninety ninety one ninety, and then I threw when I one of my best fines ever. I got a lot of fines. I bowled a six three hundred four straight one nineties. I bowled the last game at Riverside Bowlington

Riverside VCR. I shoot two ninety nine with seven Brooklyn's. On the twelve shot, I stoned a six pin and label the ball return. I was working on like the last five shots, I ran out the brooklyn they were so bad. I stoned six that still got fined. That's fantastic, you know, would have happened. Happily paid that fine for that one. Here's how man finds. I got. How many fines could you have? Your dad bowled on tour? He was on the tour committee. How many finds

were you allowed to have on tour before you got suspended. I don't know the answer to this. You could have three in the calendar year. Oh geez. I hold on tour for nine years. I had twenty seven fine, perfect game. But what I would do was suit because I am invariably

one of the guys on the term committee. Spigner or Ellenburger would come up, Hey, by the way, you're you're off, you know, probation the next the next nine count, I would light the bar return up to get myself back on probation because that way I'd calm down and bowl good. So I pretty much kept myself. You keep myself that's amazing. My mom would get these, you know, these registered letters in the mail. Hey, what's this one about? Just pay the fine mom I got. I

earned them all. That's one of the best stories I've ever heard. I had no idea that that's tell. It's just I mean, I played, so there's a reason behind it. I was a jock, and I was a pretty damn good high school basketball player. And by the time I was a seventh eighth grader, I was averaging twenty five to thirty points again my entire life. So the other team is gonna stop me. Well, I'm

super intense. I'm sixty three. I'm still intense. So when I came out to play, their job was to stop me by any means possible. So I had some games where I got thirty five points, where I scored twenty free throws. I was lit up, bloody nose, bloody elbow. I loved every minute of it. So I was super intense, ready to drop out a drop of a hat. So I come on tour and all of a sudden, you can't get mad. I'm like, wait a minute, when when Kevin McHale gets tackled by kurrambus in the finals and he turns

around and f bombs him. Tommy Hyson is going, that's the guy I want on my team. I'm like, yeah, that's how sports works. When you get mad, you get pissed, you throw an F bomb, and then you're good Bowling. Bowling did not appreciate that I have. I didn't know how to control my temper. I was a kid. I didn't get to go to I didn't go to college. I went right on tour At nineteen, I wasn't very mature. So as I've gotten older, I've gotten better at that. But uh yeah, the guys now are are very

very mellow. They don't really do anything. We had some crazy hot heeads. It was, you know, we had some legendary guys. But that's that's the difference. In the eras Now what we did would be would be so frowned upon. And all I ever say is, yeah, you make fun of my era, and you guys will say that, I mean, not the players, to the fans. You guys are this. You should never get mad. All I know is we charge money to come into a tournament, and we were standing room only. That's exactly you go. Look

at those shows you show and I make there weren't any open seats. They weren't given away the free seats. We drew a crowd. We may have been a little bit over the top, but you knew how you knew where we stood. That's true, That's true. I grew up in Bradley Bowling wins a locks. I'm originally from Connecticut and in Tennessee. Now. My mom worked there at Bradley, and I would go when the pros had come in and it was just, yeah, you're right. It was just a

sea of people. I mean it was packed, not just for TV day, but I mean the whole the entire week of qualifying and yeah, you really don't get that anymore. Nuts. Yeah, it was a different era of bowling was you know, Dave Houston I talked daily. We wish we knew. We wish in the eighties we knew how good we had it. Right. We were always complaining about the prize fun. We know, there's always something to bitch about. Every pro bowler is a good at complaining.

That's never changed in history. I wish we'd have known how good we had it. I would enjoyed it more. We mean, it was every week it was sold out pretty much every week, I mean especially when you got around the mid at Midwest or back East. I mean there was nothing.

I mean I maybe one of my first finals, like eighty two, I made it in Long Island and I'm from California and about ten guys from New York are Long Island made the finals and the fans were sitting like behind you or you sit there at the what was the name of the bowl alley, Long Island, a little place where you could, oh garden the Garden City Bowl or Garden City. You know, if you drove a small car, you could lose your car in the potholes in the parking lot that place.

Yeah, for one hundred and fifty bucks a night, bed bugs for free. So when you bowl that finals, the people would sit right behind you and mf you in your ear between frames. If you were beating the Long Island guy, that was like the greatest week ever. I beat Most, I beat Janello, I beat BERARTI I beat Roth, I mighty beat your dad. I bowl, I bolt Sammy Z. I mean I both all the guys. You suck Baker, You're gonna miss an x ten pin.

I thought that was the greatest, the greatest event ever, and the crowd was just letting me have it every frame as I sat there, So you couldn't beat that. Or like when you bowl Milwaukee, you could sit in the set tea in Milwaukee on the lanes and actually order a beer for the bartender because the bar was on the lanes. So we had some we had some good stops. You know, Belmo had some comments when we had him on the show about your generation, and I kind of want to get your

opinion of this. He was very critical of how good they had it back then, because you did mention that you guys didn't know how how good you had it. He doesn't think that the previous generation were good stewards of the sport because now they have to fight for for TV rights, they have to fight for advertising, and and they don't. They didn't have a top show on Saturday leading into wide worlds of sports. Do you agree with that?

I heard his interview and Jason is very eloquent and Jason's points when you know, Dave use Night talked about it. We talked like, wow, we never that never even crept into our minds. You know why I never ever had access to the commissioner of the PBA tour. The only time Joan Nora talked to me, he was mad at me. Yes, no, it was not my friend Joe didn't there there was no cell phone. You were going to text Tom Clark and say, hey, what's going on with this?

I want to talk to you. They would say, you know, let your ball be your guide. You're on late six. If you say anything else, we're going to kick you off the tour. So in our defense, we were never allowed to see the books. We were never allowed to talk to anybody in charge. All they told us every year when I bowled on tour, you're lucky. You bowl for what you look for? Shut up in bowl. We had no access to the to the office. We mean, we had no I mean, we had no access to anything.

So it was definitely that the tour was run by this group of akron and we were lucky to be on tour and if you don't like it, go home, because we got we got hundreds of guys that want it. I hear what Jason said, his point of view, It completely caught me

off guard. I went, I never even thought of that stuff, because if people in charge, there was no communication, Like they have these these meetings where these guys come in and they every year in Man, they have a three or four hour spirited meeting up there in the in the up in the mezzanine, and I get to hear, you know, some of the scuttle bubble goes on, like wow, least Tom Clark will actually take your call and Tom Clark will actually listen. We as now just me personally.

I never had access to anyone on tour, so I mean I hear what he says, and he makes complete sense. It was good that it was packed, but I was from a guy's in the California who saw things a little different than the guys. I just didn't understand, like, well, why could we be syndicated. I didn't understand why we didn't have more more because I'm Hollywood's here, I can look at the ratings. I know who

makes the most money. Our ratings were high. But we you know, the guy that ran, the guy that the tour was negotiating with ABC and he worked. So it was kind of weird how that all worked, and we just were given what we were given, so bankes. I guess my question is, since those are two complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Do you have a preference? Again, I said this at the top of the

show. You're a progressive, forward thinker, so you strike me as the kind of person that will at least you know, like way way both sides before you make a decision. So my question is which one do you think is better for the PBA, the access to the commissioner or the do what you're told and to Nora? Oh no, they hadn't made with us. They could do what you're told because of what the tour was doing. No, I wish we would have had more access and we could have helped.

God, how could you not market Marshall Homan and he was worth a price of a mission when Pete was young, he was worth it. I mean, we had guys that were fun. We have the way rock stars and they were legit rock stars in the end. Really weird when you When I room with Mark Roth for about one year, Dave Eustad's wife came on tour, so I had a new roommate. I had Roth. No matter where we went to dinner, they were grabbing him by the hand. Look at

his thumb. Mark Roth. We could not go anywhere without everybody in the building know who Mark Roth was a legitimate rock star. I put that in his post when he passed away. He was a myth, he was a legend. He was a real rock star. And he never wanted it. He never asked for it. He hated it when you grabbed his hand. He didn't want to sign autographs. But he was larger than life and we didn't really do much with that. My biggest complaint back then and now whatever

was so Jason's right. But here's in our defense. One year, Houston and I qualify one two at the play at the Nationals, but they call the players Championship. Now Toledo qualify one two tiny little players. Parking lot, Dave and I come walking in, are driving in with the in my car. You know you got to show your pass to get a parking spot. Sorry, all the spots are gone. I'm like, well, they can't be gone. There's twenty four spots and I'm one and he's two,

and we're here right Sorry. You can go park down Old Road about two miles. Pay five dollars to take the bus back. So we do that. We get to the lanes. Of course, we're late for roll call Dave's not gonna say much. He didn't we you win those naggi ards by keeping your mouth shut. Me not too many naggy votes, Markus Scutts, because all the guys that worked for the PBA took them. That's the tour I bowled on, So no misconstrue what was going on. Jason's right,

we should have had more say so. We didn't realize how good we had it. We should have owned bowling centers. All those things were brought up about guys, but nothing ever. We were never allowed, We never really needed in the Eddie Elias never came to the meeting. The only guy that mattered was Eddie Elias. He was the smart one. He is who he knew all the money was. Aunt Nora would not be considered a very good commissioner. That's I'm sorry. The guys are not there, passed away.

I really shouldn't be saying that. You're bringing up some You know that that big bruise on my forehead went away twenty years ago from banging against the wall complaining about this. But that was the difference. We were. We were just a number. I bowled on tour for nine years. I was in the top twenty money winners. I think seven years a row or pretty close to it. And when I had my back get hurt and I couldn't bowl on tour, and then I said, hey, maybe I could bold a

firestone. I had surgery. You know, I missed all of the winter ninety one and I'm going to bowl a firestone. If I can't boil the firestone. I get a check. You know what they said, we don't trust you, baker. Get a note from your doctor. Prove you're actually hurt. If you give us a note, we'll cut you the check. If we don't get the note from the doctor. Like, I'm not in third grade. I didn't miss because of the flu. Yeah right, you

didn't just skip class one day. You please. I don't have a living I'm staying at home with that had major back surgery joint and you give me a give me a piece of paper saying you're hurt from your doctor when the surgery was, and we'll cut you a check for the fifteen hundred last spot. Wow, So that's how much access I had now, I was obviously you get me going. I had no problem speaking my mind. Sure, And that wasn't very well that was not like at all, So I get

what he's saying, and in hindsight, he's one hundred percent correct. It was great. We didn't know how to. We didn't know how to I mean some of the some of the lawsuit stuff where the players sued, the tour and all that. I mean, we had some guys Joe Hutchinson and Charlie Tapp. They would have been as good as you could get doing a clinic. Two guys that enjoy each other's company, as funny as like Joe

Hutchinson's one level below Robin Williams. That's how fast Joe was. But if we were within five hundred miles in an event, you couldn't do a clinic. Like but it's on Sunday, there's no TV show, we're not bowling, you can't do a clinic. So there were a lot of things that restricted us from expanding. Like what Sean rash does now is amazing. I've done clinics, I've traveled. Sean is nuts how much he's willing to travel to do clinics, and it's great for the game. What Sean does is

amazing. He gets Danielle and gets Ryan Simonelli and he gets some other people to go Stephanie's valla. They go with him. It's amazing all over the world where Shan will go to do a clinic and from what I hear, they do a numble great job. We weren't allowed to do that, so that there's some difference, is what we just were restricting what we could do. When you want to make a living soon later, you keep your mouth

shut. You guys were just cattle, it seems like. And then if you didn't like, if someone will replace you, you know, somebody who can give more milk, basically, like that's just kind of you know, I'm sure there were guys that had a much better relationship with with the home office. I'll take it. I'll take it in general, like obviously you you had a you know, you had your reputation. Sounds like, well, so banks, I'm pretty quick. I wanted to know that I lose

my train and thought fast. So I want to spit a couple of things, uh, based off everything you just said. Uh. Number one, you were talking about the rock stars of your era. And one of my personal fondest memories, which I haven't really shared with a lot of people, was good old kyro Leer Lanes here in North Brunswick. The former owner of the property was Lee Livingston. Obviously you definitely remember Lee. I mean I never walked here there talk about it. You never did? That, wasn't

that? Never? I quit And my last year was ninety oh ninety Well the first the inaugural year of Dad's JP opened, that's right. Shit. Well, anyway, the the former owner of that land love bowling like there's no tomorrow. Lee Livingston, God bless him, fed the homeless every single

weekend, not nothing but great things. The inaugural year of the JP open in nineteen ninety one, they did a little peace where they're talking to her and they actually show a clip of me hitting a whiffleball with Mark Roth catching

and Dad pitching. Well, that particular week, Lee Livingston sent myself, Dad and Roth to the box at Shay Stadium, which was halfway between home plate and first base, just above the dugout, about four rows back box seats, and I remember distinctly sitting in the front with Dad and Roth was behind Dad in the box and the line of people coming from the mesodine level to get both of their autographs. Now, granted this is nineteen ninety one.

This is like after Post and everybody knew who they were, you know, and just kind of remember Mark Roth saig my dad saying John, I'm real sorry, I have to help these people, and Mark saying, here we go again, like he was so youth. They were both so used to it. It's it's crazy like to hear it from somebody like you, and I was so I wanted to bring up that awesome uh. Mark took me to my first March hockey game. We went and watched the New York

Rangers play the Chicago Blackhawks in Chicago. I had never been to a hockey game, and so I was cheering for both teams. I didn't know. You weren't supposed to cheer from LA. Everybody cheers for the opposite team, you know, right, you know, when the Yankees come to Anaheim, more people are cheering for the Yankees and they are for the Angels. I never been to hockey games. I've seen on TV. It didn't make any sense. So we're sitting there. So the first two goals were scored by

the Blackhawk. Now, when you're at a hockey game, you can actually see what icing is like. Oh, Okay, that makes sense, but you can see the play developing, the guy pass and then that guy experience such a different person. But then then the Rangers score and I go ballistic and Rosss like grabbed me, sit down. I'm like, no, that was The Rangers come back and beat him three two. There the crowds get ready. He went for all wanting autographs from Mark, and they're trying to

kill us because I kept searing for the Rangers. I didn't know you couldn't cheer for the opposite team. So when we were there the first two periods and Mark might have signed five hundred autographs, they just lined up. It was like eighty four when Mark was in his prime. He just signed him all. I mean, Harry were like, they're just knocking to that's Mark Rocca. His bowling was, you know, so big back then. But

Mark, he was the real deal. Mark. My comparison to that is when when I was when I was married to to my my ex who I hope she's doing great. She We went to school in Youngstown, Ohio, which was an hour from Cleveland and an hour from Pittsburgh. And my dad is close with Bill Cower and his best man at his wedding was Jim Mueller,

the old announcer for the Browns. God rest his soul. So we always rooted for the Jets, the Browns, and the So when I first got to Youngstown, Ohio, and my former father in law says, so, who's your football team? And I said the Jets, but I rooted for the Browns and the Steelers. He practically threw me out of the He threw me out of the house. But you're not allowed to do that here, dude. That's serious. Like, I know, if you're a Red Sox fan, you don't like a Yankees or vice versa. But I didn't

know that when I got there. So that's funny that you brought that up, rob What do you do? It was a great time on tour, and I listened to Jason's interview you guys, I was like, Wow, Jason sees the world different than every other. I think Jason has a unique look at bowling because of where he came from and how he got on tour and obviously the two handed thing and some of the you know, the garbage that he had to deal with for such a long time. So I think

Jason's take is very unique. He's I don't think he's wrong, but it's he. I wish we had a guy like Jason on tour when Eyebolt and he had, you know, he was the biggest, And if we had Jason's stature a tour, he was whining player the year every year, and he'd revolutionized the game and he made bowling even bigger than it was. And if Jason would have had access to the people that ran it, then the bowling he might have enough game to change some of the things and bring things

up. Things he brought up none of us ever thought about and just never thought about it, so it all made sense. He's a great ambassador for the sport and the PBA is lucky to have him right now for as long as he as it remains, because that you know, as you know he said in the show, he doesn't want to bowl forever. He doesn't see himself going on the PBA fifty Tour and and you know, just because he doesn't want to be away from home that much. And honestly, he has

nothing left to prove anyway, but he does have a lot. He had a lot of great ideas that we didn't even think of about. Yeah, he's really unique. Jason thinks different. I mean, maybe that's coming from a different country or not growing up from when I The little that I know about Jason that he didn't have ESPN, he didn't know who some of the players were, so he didn't grow up and enamored with I grew up not really even bowling. I just kept scoring, but oh my god on Saturday.

Because my dad was a huge Barrier, sure fan. So when Barry was on TV, that was it. I was so naive when I watched TV in the day. If Mark Marshall or Earl wasn't on, I didn't watch the rest when they announced the top five, and then the top five would be these five guys, like, oh, this is a bad week. The good guys aren't on TV. I didn't. They made so many shows that pretty much one of the three made it every single week. So I didn't. I wasn't. I grew up loving bowling, even though I

wasn't much of a bowler then. So Jason has a different take. It's very unique, but he's done something. But you know, as a guy that coaches for a living, that has thirty forty percent of my customers are two handed, you know, I have to tip my cap to Jason. I think he I think it the way the sport was going before COVID. He really kept it going there for a while because if you look at the high school and the junior and the college thing, the two ended things are

real deal. And that's all attributed to Jason. Obviously O Schoo and now Anthony and some other ones. But Jason definitely deserves his kudos for keeping our sport going. It wasn't doing well for a while. No, you're absolutely right about that. And he was I don't want to say a breath of fresh air, but I mean he was so unique and did it so well so fast. I think people were just enamored with him. And uh and

he's he's a true star. I mean they are either enamored or they they didn't like you know, they we they wear pants with circles through two handers. That's exactly right there. Yeah, yeah, that used to cost me two fifty So yeah, I mean it's uh, where's Joe Antenora. That's a fine man. That was. I didn't do good with him, I was, I was always in trouble. Got one year, I got here's

a good Here's what I got. Here's what I got fined for. Do you know that back in the day, they had a service that would clip out all the interviews any pro bowler did in any newspaper in the United States and it got sent to the office. I got fine one hundred bucks for this bow in Vegas, second stop of the tour, and had some really good years. They asked me what was my goals that year as a pro

bowler. I said, the same goal I have every year. I want to make more money than Curtis Strange's Caddy, the guy I printed that cost me a hundred But you're not wrong. Curtis Strange is making over a million year. Caddy got Jim for song one hundred thousand on tour. You're a top ten money winners. I thought it was a legitimate goals I have. I have an off topic question because I'm curious, and I'm sure half of

our viewers are too. Whenever we have the best in the world at their craft, which obviously aside from bowling, is your ability to teach bowlers. Who was your like? Who coached you? I always I always ask people. I asked Fred Borden and Jerry Edwards the same thing when I used to take lessons from them an acron, Who do you model your teaching after? If anybody, I can't really say it's it's it's gonna sound odd, but well, the first person I really didn't model an inning after with John Wooden.

I'm a big UCLA guy. John Wooden was the man. Anybody under the age of fifty doesn't know who that is, Joel John Wooden. He was pretty legendary in his day, you know, before the March madness took over. So John had I mean, mister coach would and had some very specific ways of coaching. But a lot of my coaching was based based on me seeing other coaches do things that I didn't like. Now, I was very fortunate in playing sports. My dad was a great coach, unbelievably good

coach. It's not what he did. He was, you know, a professional banker and did very well for himself. Well, my dad was a good coach. Tough on me, but he was an excellent coach. I had a coach in high school. I did a clinic on how to hit a baseball, how to shoot a jump shot. I had coaches that just would tell me to do stuff, and I was the kid that wouldn't do it. And I had some coaches like, you're five to three as a

freshman in high school basketball, you want to be a good player. If you don't change the angle of your form on how to shoot a jump shot, you're never going to get it off. He spent an hour with me showing me how to do it, and like a light bulbling off. A guy showed me how to hit an off speed pitch by watching the seams of a baseball when I was a junior. If it's a curve, we didn't throw sliders. If it's a curve, the ball is going to spin this

way, then your shoulder has to stay tuck longer. All of a sudden, you threw a curve at me, I was going to hit it. So I got coached by people who had always explained to me why they wanted me to change before I changed. So I've always tried to implement that because I took lessons from golf instructors and it was always so bad. They this kind of made fun of me because I wasn't any good. I was very fortunate to be a pretty good bowler for you know, quite a few years.

I was never the man, but man, I bowled against the man plenty of times, so I saw what it took. I'm like, how I bold is irrelevant to coaching. I got to find a way to communicate better to the customer. And like I said, the kind of an odd thing is I've had such a varied group of people I've coached and some super super super successful people. I actually learned more from the customers I have than anybody else. How they become millionaires? How you know these people are?

You know, I'm very lucky. I have a lot of people that do well, and you listen to them talk and like, okay, that's how you should talk to somebody. That's how they want the information given. So I was really good at trying to figure out how to have eight different vocabularies. So I would do a within five minutes, I'm doing a bowling EyeQ test, a physical eye test, and how athletic are you? Then I give you my number, and whatever your number is, I change more vocabulary

to match that number. And that just makes fun, huh. And you do it with every single like you're constantly on the move with like even your clinics thirty different personalities or even one on ones. You're you have to kind of like enter their world in order to understand. You know why, you know, you know why. There's one specific reason why they're the one paying. It's not my money. I'm not the one throwing the ball. What they think matters more than what I know. What they feel is more important

than what I know. It's not so much how smart am I as a coach. Oh, you know, if that's there you need you have to have enough game to get the person to call you. But once they call you and they stepped through my door of my car, they're in. They're not in charge. I'm definitely in charge. You've been to my camps. I don't. I don't I'm in charge. But what they think and feel

and say do matter. And it really helped me to stop bowling. When I quit bowling completely, I became a much better coach because my ego got out of it. Once my ego got out of it. If you took a lesson on Tuesday and I shot seven to ninety in league, I was in a good mood. If you took a league on lesson on Tuesday and I shot six fifty I was a jerk. I was still trying to be that guy, and I wasn't that guy. That guy left a long time ago. But so once I stopped coaching, I started listening better. And

the one thing I think coach you should learn. I'm not trying to coach anybody because all the coaches do a different doing a lot of virtual lessons. Since COVID, bowlers are amazing on telling you what they do wrong. Bowlers understand their games so well, if you just what are we want to work on today? My timing on every third shot, I'm early, and I measure them and I get these verds like they're exactly right. My release isn't

consistent. I miss every third shot on the bottom, you're right. So if you actually address what they want for when the lesson goes better and number two so I kind of I never have a game plan. I do not believe in that when you walk in the door, we're gonna work on whatever you want. Golf coaches, Today, we're gonna putt. No, I want to hit on. I hit my wedge bed. Nope, today's a putting lesson. It's my money. Why come I can't kick what I want

to do. So I've always tried to really listen to other person, and I've gotten better at as i've gotten older, because I'm still super intense, but I kind of dig what I do and I get you know, I get really good results. But I learned as much from the customer now as I do from anybody else. John Wooden, I would say, I've studied all the coaches. I've got hundreds of mems in my phone looking at quotes talking about stuff I really like to do. That was a coach at Alabama.

I thought he was I thought he was pretty special. He could adjust to anything. So my son gets tired of hearing all the quotes. But you know, I look at everybody in every endeavor, not bowling, just every sport, every walk of life. Why is this person successful at whatever they do? And I try to steal something from that? Hell yeah, why was Why was Bobby Knight so successful? Because obviously you can have explosive

personality. He had an explosive I'm not well true, true, he's a little bit over the top of what do you think Bobby Bobby had in a certain era. Bobby and I couldn't Bobby and I couldn't coach day one. Now the players speak back. That was back in my era we didn't talk back to our parents. So like now, if I go to Starbucks and a thirteen year oldkid from junior highs dropping f bombs and I say, you know, watch your language. If you you're not my dad. In my

day, that person would have landed. But if anyain of that day, I would never done it because if the word got back to my dad that I had told an adult off, I wouldn't be doing his interview. If I did, I'd be talking with a lisp. I guarantee you that he would have let me. I mean the lot of my Somebody telling my dad I did something wrong put the fear in God in me. So it's a different Bobby Knight could not coach today, but it wouldn't work. He wouldn't

get through to the player because of just the change in society. Social media has changed everything. Social media, I mean the access to people. You know, it's hard. It's it's harder to like to sell this video. It's much harder because I'm competing against YouTube, and YouTube has one important thing. It's free. Doesn't matter if the contents that he good or not it's free and there's a lot of it and you can keep watching three four hours.

My charge seventy five dollars. How dare he charge money? Well, I mean that the players didn't come here for free. I didn't rent the place out for free. The guy that did the editing wasn't free, the cameraman wasn't free. So you're trying to recoup some of your your your cost and trying to make something pretty cool. But the whole world's changed. The

social media Bobby Knight at that time could get plus Bobby Knight had. If Bobby Knight didn't have results, he'd have been blown out of the water. Every five years he kept winning a title. They're gonna looking up way and then he by then the players knew what he was right, and I knew what they were getting in you or you want to it to be your friend. I mean, when you get done at the end of day, you

know what they're asking about. I was on the seventy six team that went undefeated, and they wear that ring proudly, and all the stuff Bobby did behind it, they let that slide. If you win, things get to be you know, washed on the you know, under the car still gets a pass sometimes, and he went and choked a guy on the field for trying out loud. Yeah, So I mean, it's it's a different world

how that. I mean, like the big thing with the tight End for the Chiefs when he lost on the coach and everybody's getting mad at him. I'm like, hey, what I mean he became like my favorite player, And then Randy Reid said, he laughed, he goes, he makes me young. So they don't know, they don't people make all these judgments now, and they don't know the relationship between that coach and that tight end. They might have had something. He said, Hey, if we get complacent,

I need you to light everybody up. That's your job. I mean, you watch what Herb Brooks did in the Olympics. Hey, the guy's hurt. Can you get hurt any worse? No, he's basically as hurt as he can hurt. Watch he went and lit that guy up, and that's true stuff. And a team came back and played and he did it on purpose because that guy had enough game to take the heat. Today is a little different world. So what Travis did, everybody's going crazy. I'm

like, yeah, but he was right, they were flat. They weren't flat. They won, you know, hopefully. You know Reed's got some thick skin by now. So I mean, but according to social media, he should be kicked out of football. So I'm an old fart that doesn't get it. I don't get it. I'm not you know, and I don't have sensitive feelings. My poor son has to put up with me. I'm tough, but I also want results and I know what what's right, what's wrong. So you go from there. But social media is, ah,

it's a wild animal, isn't it tell you what? Mark Baker's Twitter and everybody in the chat. Let's go see see how he likes, how he would, how he did in the interview for now. I mean, that's just, you know, it is what it is. I am who I am. I'm lucky that i've been. I'm the same guy every day. One thing I do like that I'm blessing too. That's good for you

man. One thing I do like when people come to my camp. I've had a man from Rafee come from Mexico and he said that the reason why he liked camp was my book and my DVD and how I coach in person I'm the same guy every day, so I really do work on being This isn't me getting wound up. This is just Wednesday. I'm always slightly wound up, so that's who I am. I'm old enough now that I really don't care when anybody thinks you know what they're going to do to you,

I don't care. I know, I know, I know. I'm in clean and sober for a long time, twenty three years clean and sober. I'm a good guy now, but before I had issues, So now I'm pretty scored away that way. So I'm never I'm never saying anything mean to anybody. I'm not trying to be mean to anybody. But I got my own opinion, and I'm allowed to have it. That's part of being American. You're allowed to have your own damn opinion. You don't get to give

me my opinion. That's just how this works, whether you think is right or wrong. I'm allowed to have mine too, as well as you're allowed to have yours. And yours isn't better because you got more feelings. Now, I know that's going to piss some people off, but sooner life you got to stand up tips I'm trying to show because they don't have the mental capacity to do what you're doing. It's the same like I love Arnold Schwartzeger

and his number one thing in life is consistency. If you're consistent, you trump everything. If you're they know, my son, and why everybody loves you is because you're like that, Like Rafe said from Mexico, you are consistent, You're always there and they always know exactly what they're getting. What you do, you know, it is what it is. So it's it's I I shouldn't have said all ye, that's the problem. Now I think I shouldn't have said those things. That's what sorry won't do. What I

try to show my son is the one thing. And I've coached some some you know, people that are almost billionaires. I know one guy in the valley I coach, Harry. What does that guy do for a living? I think he kind of owns the stock market? This guy, you know, this guy is when he starts talking about what he does, I'm like, you do what? I mean? So bright? So what the one common thing of all the people I've coached. I coached Mookie Betts in here.

I've coached a lot of successful people, Chris Barnes, they just outwork everybody. So I knew when Dave Hughes said, and I talked today, when I quit my job to become a coach again, he goes, this time, when you coach, you have to promise me you're going to coach more than anybody else if you put in more hours. The way Dave put it was so basically, if you do more sit ups everybody else, you'll have the stronger stomach. So you have to find a way to get to

more people than anybody else that's ever coached. And I've and I've tried my best. I'm not sure if I'm you know, we don't keep track. But if you want to take a swing at my numbers, you better you better get ready. I did over. I work with over two thousand people fourteen straight years before COVID, so I was getting after with Barry and I were doing the clinics. So I thought the only way to become a good

coach was to coach a ton. How many people can I see? I want to coach, and til there's no style, I can't help because in the beginning, with somebody having unque style, I'd be Texan Barry, you got to come down lane thirty one. You've never seen this before. I have no idea what to do. Well, I don't say that anymore. I've gotten past that. So my idea for me to be comfortable and me to be helpful to people, I had to sort of my brain to be

calm. I had to outwork everybody. There are other other better coaches, I'm sure they are. Are there more technical people? Way more do they know more about bullying balls? Way more do I get out worked? I'm not sure about that one. Banks. I have two quick questions for you.

They're both kind of broad, but I again curiosity number one. When somebody pays you for say an hour or two hour lesson, and thirty to forty minutes through you start to show them, say that your first or second tiper of something, and their answer is, well, no, I can't do that. My body won't allow me to do that. What do you do? That's my first question, and because I'm assuming with the thousands you've

coached, you've run into that a few times. And my second question, and I don't want to shun anybody here, and there may not be a definitive answer, but who is the most talented player you've ever worked with. So the first question, I've never had that problem. I'm good. I will never ask you to do something. Remember this coaching is about me, not about me telling you what's right. Coaching is about me telling you what you can do. That's why I'm so good with seniors. I mean,

you're seventy five. There are certain things you can and can't do. I have one who I had a doctor another and y'all, I coach a lot of the success I've had. Doctor Weissen here today, he's like, I'm down to one sixty. We worked on a few things. We moved him up, got rid of his knee band, stood him taller, got his law longer, and he threw like a first four bagger of the twenties. So I don't let that happen. What you talked about, I can't do

that because I'm not asking him to do something they can't do. Hey, Mark, real quick, did your injury kind of that unfortunately created an injury? Like? Did that make you more aware of somebody's mechanics so they don't injure themselves or making them first question I asked, as anybody, any part of your body hurt. There you go, I was a job. I'm just going to bowl through the pain. I'm just gonna suck down enough to leave the bowl. Not a good move. So yeah, that was I'm

very sensitive. I'll guarantee you had Kane radiating pain radio legs and it was you. I'm sure it's L five S one, L four L five somewhere around there the sitting. I guess that's what my laminectomy was, exactly in those two spots. One hundred percent. Ladies and gentlemen are resident doctor. That's it. That's why he said he was a king of anatomy. He got it right exactly. So I try not just not just a pretty face. So your question is I don't really have that. And by the way,

at forty five minutes the it's the first five minutes. I know what I'm doing right. It takes three suns. I've done this a lot. I'm quick. I'm fast. You do those clinics with Barry, and you've been to my camp. There are thirty six people wanting to get better, and I do all the assessing. So I got to be quick. So one thing that clinics did, it got me to be or I could help between thirty and fifty people in two hours, So you have to be able to assess it fast. So I came up with my own system. I'm

not saying my system is the right system. I'm saying it works for me. It allows me to help bowlers. You know, I guess the easiest way to put it. I see everybody as a jigsaw puzzle. Everybody's a jigsaw puzzle. And how do you build a jig puzzle? Jigsaw puzzle? There's four borders, top borders, consistency, bottom borders, timing, one on the rights, balance one of left, sacricy. If I can fix those four things because they all come for the what they all come for the

release. So my theory on the jigsaw puzzle the way social media telling me all these drills and all these things about the release, release, release, They're trying to build a jigsaw puzzle with the middle piece. First, how's that work out? You can't build a jigsaw puzzle that way. I work on the four things I am very good at, and when I get those four, fixing the release not very hard. Wow. So your second question, you're gonna get me in trouble. So the most talented player I ever

worked with. I don't want to, but I definitely want to know. Man, there there there There's only because I know who you were worked with and they're so goddamn many Mark Yeah, USA allowed me like em USA allowed me access to probably the most talented person. I never got a chance to work with Pete, but I got a chance to spend a little bit of

time with EJ. Tackett. That was special. He how I see a lane and how I teach what I teach is basically watching him bowl in Hong Kong the World Championships, how he saw the lane different than everybody else in the world, and he ran the gold medal over like it was nothing. And he sat down and explained to me how he did it, and it made me see the lane different. So EJ. Tackett is is basically to me, the my mount Rushmore releases was Don Johnson, Marshall Homan, A'manamnicelli,

and Tommy Jones. That was the four best releases I had ever seen, and then then now there's a guy on top. I think Tackett has the best one handed natural release talent wise I've ever seen in Pete's in there somewhere. Most talent, It's it's a toss up, you know. Barnes was the hardest worker I've ever worked with. I've never seenbody want it as bad as Chris. But the most talented probably Tommy. Tommy's just Tommy's Tommy. Man. It's like, hey, Tommy, on this shot, I

want you to slide on the wrong foot. You got to look out of your left eye. You only breathed through your right nostril. It would take him three shots to strike Biggs. I don't think this looks very good, Tommy. This is the new style. We're all gonna bowl on the wrong foot. Whatever you say, Biggs, Chris would say, what if I use every other eye on every other step, and every other step I breathe out of a different nostril? How about that? Chris is never satisfied.

So those are the guys that I thought were the most Bill O'Neil was very easy to work with. I had great get right one with Mika. The smartest guy I've ever coached, by far was Mike Fagan. Mike Fagan was brilliant. He thought on a different plane than everybody else. AJ might be as good as athlete as ever coached. Chris Viiz probably the strongest guy I've ever coached. Oh, probably the hardest worker by far, would be a toss up. I spent more time with Danielle McEwan and then it would be

Shannon O'Keefe. Those two people want it so bad it's scary. Those are the two want it the most. Would be those two girls, Danielle and Shannon. I would say those are the two that wanted the most. The one time I ever spent a day with Danielle was in West Haverstraw. She invited me up to the Stony Point area to go practice, and that's when I definitely knew how shitty I was in comparison to people that work that hard. It was a pleasure to watch her on the lanes and still to this

day. I mean, she's still one of my favorites. So that that's a pretty good crew I just named. I mean, I've been very and then I was just gonna say, but now doing the video, I never coached, I mean, it was all, it was all what they call it organic. I gave no instructions. You know, Jason and Simon and Pray there. I don't really know those guys that, well, so what are we doing? I said, well, there's tape on the lane.

Throw between the tape every shot and split the eight nine what ball? Don't care where you want us to play wherever you want, That's all I said. And then I never worked with Jason or Anthony at all, but watching him in person, it was it was eye opening how good they were. Pray there was super smooth Dave's. I never broke down Dave Houstad's game before the entire time. We never talked about our games, we never worked with each other, we never did any of that. We roomed together for nine

years. So breaking down Dave's game at sixty three, you see why he won the US Open three times. I mean, it was amazing. How it's like if you watch my video Pray, there is almost Dave Housteed. Their games were scary, the same where their ball was in their third step, how they both dropped their hips down the exactly the same time their timing spot. So like Pray, they're trying to become the new Housteed, which you could do worse than that. So they were all fun to work with.

But I would say, you know, Christen, you know here's a good story for working hard. My son's trying to become a good bowler. About a year ago. He's bowling okay, but you know it's it's hard to find lanes. I'm talking about practicing more. Yeah, well, how much practice? Dad? I said? It's like, let's give Uncle Chris a call. So I called Chris. He answers, Hey, what's going on? Hey, I want you to talk to Gauge. My son, I said, Gage said, Uncle Chris, when did you decide to become

a pro bowler? And Chris said around twenty two to twenty three. I wanted to make a living at bowling. He didn't join the tour for a couple more years. He goes, but I knew I wanted to make a living thrown a bowling ball. I didn't want to work for anybody. So how much did you practice to get good? And Chris said, well, you know, for a long time, between fifteen one hundred games a week and my end And my son goes, wow, that's so cool. How

long did you do that for? And Chris said, well, on fifty three, So for thirty straight years and my engagement, you've been practicing fifty games a week for thirty years straight, and Chris went, well, they just don't give you those titles. And my son went, you guys are crazy. You're both crazy. I went, no, you want to get good in something. And you guys all liked that. He has nineteen titles and he's won the Triple Crown and it. You know, for a ten

years run he was as good Ashim Weyver Bold. But man, that stuff doesn't just happen there. You know how many thousands of hours was He's down there working on something to get better. And they everybody in every sport does that. Danielle and Shannon. I don't know who works harder at it than those two. So there's all that goes into it. It always comes down to the same thing. When Eye bowled on tour, nobody practice more than

Ozio, nobody practice more than Patrick Allen. I mean, there's there's not a lot of heat. There's only one Homan. Marshall didn't practice much. Marshall was just Marshall. I mean, there's only one of those. So's to get in that level of anything in life, whether it's coaching or bowling, or becoming the best salesman at whatever you sell, the people that tend

to work the hardest tend to get the best results. It's like Kobe's shooting free throws for twelve hours a day, you know what I mean, Kobe, And then now that he you know, now I'm an LA guy, and all these stories about Kobe and these godly practice sessions. That's how it works. Yeah, same with andre Acacy and guys like that. I mean, the best, they're always going to do what it takes to I mean, obviously they have the talent to do it. But the difference is,

I don't think the best think we're going to do what it takes. They actually like doing it. So when I coach these crazy amount of hours and do these, in my mind, I got to x amount of lessons and clinics and virtual to pay my family's bills. So there's that to come first. I don't see it as a big number. I see it as that's what keeps me sharp. I like is I have to work on my communication

skills every single day. I have to talk clearer. I talk much slower than I ever did before, but I have to be able to communicate with people that amazingly. At the training center at one hundred and forty an hour. I get people to show up all the time without gear, no ball, no shoes. You got to go buy a ball, and you gotta go buy some shoes, take a lesson. So I get people from that thing all the way to the tour players that have been here, so all

these different types. I have to constantly be working at my craft to get better. I don't want to get where yet. I went to a camp five years ago, and that's exactly the same. I take great pride in always changing my powerpoints no matter what. When I get done, I'm like, that wasn't right. That could be said better. So I'm always trying to do it better because I got to keep finding new clients and I got to keep bringing clients back. So I can't get boring. And I'm hyper.

So if I start saying the same thing over and over and over and try nothing new, my effort won't be very good. So that's why I did the one handed video. I came up with my own terms. Somebody's ever talked about sequencing. I invented core management, the baker box, moving the ear forward. I mean, if you buy the video and you watch it like, those are terms that nobody else in bowlings ever used, and I just giving a lot of lessons and explaining how I explain it. So

that's kind of what I like. I like, I want to see how far I could push myself. And it's it's, you know, it's why you're the best, because like you said, you range anywhere from a novice player with no equipment to the greatest talents the sport has ever seen. It. It's it's like it speaks volumes of the way you teach. And for anybody listening, you know, aside from you know, there's great coaches all

over the world. Not going to say that, I'm not going to doubt that or anything along those lines, but I will say when you have somebody like this who's not only willing to go out of their way for the first thing they say is to make sure that you're physically fit to do what he's about to say, to allow himself to treat every bowler, whether they don't have a new bowling ball or their own bowling ball, all the way to

the greatest talent the sports ever seen. That's what makes a world renowned coach. And I'm pretty sure at this point in your life You've certainly recognized just how badass you are for those reasons, aside from everything else. No, I've got a great wife. She keeps me in check. I don't ever see it that way. I don't ever part of it's coaching at a training center. I mean I don't. I'm not in a bowling center. I

don't. I'm not talking to people as much. And then when I go and when I go to bowling center now it's only to watch gage bowl and I really go out of my way not to be that guy. I'm just trying to be a dad. It's such a hard I feel so sorry for my son sometimes. You know, he had a very good point. You know this is this isn't easy with you sometimes and I said, yeah, I get it, and he goes, No, Dad, if you go watch a bowling tournament, there's a bunch of dads in there that think they

know bowling, and there none of them can bowl. You actually won on tour. Okay, you got that. I was pretty good bowler one time that none of the kids know. And he goes. Then all the dads are trying to coach their kids and they don't know anything about bowling. Dad, you're a pretty good coach. So you were a good bowler and you're a good coach, and I picked bowling on it, and you should have

picked a different sport. You pick basketball and you pick bowling. I know basically nothing about anything else in life, so it's got to be hard for gauge. And I really go out of my way not to be him when I'm there, and when I'm here, I don't ever see it. I don't, you know. Barry Asher keeps me in check, Dave Houston keeps me in check, Joe Hutch keys me in check. I don't really see it that way. All I know is today I had six lessons and they

were really good lessons and all six of them re signed up. And Tomorrow I have seven lessons, and Friday I have nine, and Saturday I have nine. Sunday I have six, and I'm going to run those lessons over like I've never done it before. If I do that, I got a chance to see him again. And if I do that, I got a chance to go to work next week. It's always, you know, the clean and sober thing. It's one day at a time for me. It's

one lesson at a time. I have to give everything I got, every lesson because you don't know if that's the person that's gonna take five hundred lessons the next ten years. You don't know who that person is. So I can't. I can't send it in. It's just not fair, and I charge too much. I charge a lot of money, So I try. You know, I have my bad days, but I really go out of my way. Not None of that stuff matters to me. I just want to really do well tomorrow. If I do well tomorrow, it's gonna give

me a chance to do well on Friday. Like I always think, every camp is gonna be the one camp nobody gets better. That's my biggest fear. I've done forty two. What if I get to Friday and nobody got better. Then I get to Friday and better. But every camp I go into it, I'm so worried that what if I lose it? What if I don't have it no more? So I always worry about that because I'm bowling. One day I didn't have it no more. One day I became

a really good league bowler, and that's it. It goes away. So I'm always worried that coaching will go away if I don't keep pushing myself to try to say a little different. Plus, it keeps it fun. I mean, I'm been doing this for a while. I'm sixty three. My son starts, you know, high school next year, so I'll be doing this a few more years. You're how old I am? Sixty two, I'll be sixty three. I'm sixty two, all right to fuck out it.

That's graduated in nineteen seventy nine. My first year on tour is a I went on tour in eighty made a couple of finals. I went on the Winter Tour in eighty one, got my ass handed to me. To me, it was like Mark Roffett, come up one week, Hey kid, I need a new car. Keep going for the earl. Hey I need a new kitchen this week, keep going on tour. I'll tell you what it was my first full year after listen, six sixty two year old

listen. I'm just going to announce this to everybody about being sober. If you want to look that good at sixty two, like Mark Baker or Parker Bone, stay sober. Parker stays sober. Little Parker just stays over the whole time, the whole front. Yeah, i'd go you were like maybe fifty two. Maybe, Oh no, I I I've actually my mind. I'm being down still. I'm trying to ski back and forth really fast. Right now you look better than me and I'm forty seven, So I mean,

oh yeah, I graduate high school seventy nine. I went on tour, and I think eighty one was my first. My first year really on tour was eighty two in my first full year, and then I in ninety I was done. I pulled nine full years. Wow, that's if you saw my father, it's jeans. It's just jeans. My dad, we look eerily the same. He's got a he's eighty three, plays one hundred rounds of golf a year, travels a lot, very you know, we played the card games. He still wins all the card games, plays the

stock market, does all that. And my dad talks like I talk, and we kind of look almost exactly the same same size. So a lot of what is just jeans like, but there's there's plenty of gray on the side that some mornings is pretty rough. But it is what it is. Man, what are you gonna do? That's true? No, that is true. Another guy from California that obviously is very well known and ardadly one of the best players, if not the best ever, would be Walter Ray.

And obviously you got a chance to beat him. And now I believe that was his first year on tour, and I think he had won the tournament previous to that week, so he wasn't really in Walter mode yet. But I mean, you could tell from the beginning that he was very good. What were your thoughts about him early on? And how do you attribute his success over such a long period of time. So I have I have an amazing story. If you got five minutes, sure true story Walter.

The reason why Walter's so good for so long is easy. None of us knew how bad Walter wanted it. I guarantee you wherever Walter is to it, he's watching this. If they got a five gamer at ten o'clock at night to some random bowling center in Florida, Walter's bowling, but Walter's bowling to win. I've never seen a guy that likes winning more than Walter. You got to give him that. He's I'm sixty two, Walter's probably sixty four. I never seen a guy I want to win like he's won.

So I'm bowling. We're bowling in the Southern California. In nineteen eighty eighty one, we both the Southern California Open, which was twelve teams, no league rules because there he need work both any four you could just Mark Ross sub, Dave houstit sub. It was the ultimate, the ultimate Open league. He had to have one regular. You could have three subs every night, including in the roll off. So it was a stud league. And this guy John Keene wanted to get a guy that bowl on his team.

Hey, I got a guy. He's not really two hundred yet, but he's really improved a lot. Do you guys mind if he bowls the league and he's not quite there yet. So this guy was Walter Ay Williams. And I'm like, I see the guy. I'm like, I read the bowling paper. That's the guy that bowls the coffee club at Limbrook on Sundays with the old ladies. Yeah, but he wins all the scratch sideplots.

I'll give him that. So he started bowling more, and he started bowling more so that year, whatever year that was, For some reason, we don't have a tournament on Labor Day weekend, Walter asked me, Bobby Fenton and Ernie Harding to my good friends with the California Hey, I'm playing horseshoes this weekend at the La County Fair. Do you guys want to come watch me play horseshoes. I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes just matter of factly, because Walter was, you know, Walter was Walter.

He goes, well, I'm the best horseshoe player in the world. We're like, come on, you're like on the low man on the sheet and league. Sure. Sure, So we go out on a Monday air a Sunday to La County Fair and Pomona. There were a few beverages involved. By noon, we were hammered. So we go find the horseshoe pit. We come out there and we're allowed, where's Walter Ray? And we want to see Walter Ray? And people said, you know dead Eye personally,

what you actually know dead Eye? Williams like, what are you talking about? He's the greatest horseshoe player of all time. Like no, So then he was seated like into the quarterfinals. We're out there and Walter comes out and he walks down from one end to the other of the horseshoe pit. He's got on the short open, the short opiece shorts, He's got his wall in his front pocket, got the white sox on with the red

stripes to the knees. He walks down the middle of this horseshoe pit and it was like Mark Roth, Marshall, Home and Earl Anthony were rolled into one guy. The rout stop talking and we're looking around like what is going on? And then he started throwing him and all three he was went, oh no, if this guy ever figures out, he's going to beat us. All hero these ringers like it. I mean, it was everybody was

at forty fIF percent. Walter sawing him at eighty five ninety and he's making the ringer go on a certain way and he's spinning on whichever I mean. And the thing was his last couple of steps and his fall through in a little spin out didn't look that much different than his bowling game, and we all went, oh no, he's eating something at forty feet within sixteenth of an inch. Here figures us out. He's going to kill us. And he turned into Waltery Wayams. Jude, Wow, you predicted the future.

Basically, are right there? Huh, getting right? I had no idea he was going to be this good. He grew up with us, he was there, he started winning regionals. Then he went on tour and he made a couple of shows by eighty five, even on tour two or three years. I think what Walter figured out quickly was he was the first guy really to use a spare ball more anybody else. And when he bowled me

on the show, he was trying to really slow hook it. Walter came on tour, he threw it really really slow and tried to hook the lane. He hooked the way. He didn't watch that on a highlight. I'm not doing anymore. I'm gonna start throwing a hard straight. But people forget he lost to me that week, and a week or two later he won in Baltimore throwing a hard straight, and he ended up being Player of the

Year that year, and the rest, they say is history. YEA, his heart, he wants it more than anybody else I've ever met, and I know some bowlers that really want it. Walter is another level of a competitor, and he's super smart too. He's got multiple degrees of cal poly I mean like he's a he's a brilliant. He probably could have been an engineer in some field. No lack of intelligence for Walter. Just ask him. I love. It's fantastic. He're my buddy, Walter. I can

say that I knew you. I knew you win. You mentioned actually before we get to I want to ask you a question about EJ. But before we get to him. Real quick, though, we watched during your highlight package. Uh, you mentioned that was a bad ruling on the pin that that fell, and ABC did a great job of showing a super slow mo of it. I think gravity. I think gravity knocked it over. I came down and it was it was a bad view. I've kind of struck there. I had a shot to seventy. I wouldn't have missed, but

it was already kind of going before the miss year though. It wasn't like it was up right. It was on it, you get it. That was and you know, you know the anatomy of all of body, So that was I don't know. I hadn't won it. A couple of years, I made a bunch of shows. I had him on there. He had nothing. I had a four backer. I had shot previously, I just shot like seven seventy to front three. I was bowling so good. That was. That was the best ever bowl. I carry that. I

don't to this day. I've never taken a run and dobe on an approach. I never did it before. I never did it after. Obviously I was an out of body experience. And then it, you know, I end up winning the tournament. I parlayed that into second place with the Firestone Tournament Champions. If I don't win that tournament, I don't get in the Firestone. I won about forty grand that day, finished the second to home, and so at least I took that. I took advantage of that win

and parlayed it into a good, pretty good event in the Firestone. Yeah, I still think he got screwed over there. I don't care if it's I don't know how many years, you know, thirty forty years ago. Who cares that that that the pin centter never touched that pin. Yeah, I'm to this day, I know if I carry that tu upin I'm off the sheet for two seventy I'd have been There's nothing, There's no way I would have missed. Hello was Harry Golden I just got lucky. Was Harry

Golden the one that made the ruling? I guess, yeah, Harry was in charge, so he made the ruling. And they said that, you know, it's if they rule the other way then then it's controversial. But you still, you still knew you had you had uh Walter that day though, I mean, you just that I wasn't gonna make any more spares. That's true, that is that is very true. Just you know, one of those days, you know, it just it's you know, I was

twenty was eighty six off twenty five. It's just going. So you know. TV was always tricky because I'm going pretty fast as it is, yeah, and TV was faster. So I had a hard time than my last two times I vote for titles when I bowl thoz, Yet when I bow wonder Lich, I shot to fifty both times. Once I got comfortable TV and I knew how to slow it down and really just focus on the one shot, then I stopped making shows. When I made a lot of shows,

I was just wanting to win so bad. I was looking at the result so much because I was supposed to win, all this potential and all that crazy stuff that I couldn't slow my brain down enough to bowl get on TV. Then when I finally got pretty good at bowling on TV, I stopped making TV shows. So what are you gonna do? It is what it is. I won four times. That's not as good as I probably should have, but you know, still four titles is more than most kit

So it was. I made twenty seven shows. It was a pretty good career. Seventeen top five finishes. I mean that's that's twenty actually twenty seven, twenty seven. Yeah, I made seventeen in about three years. I had a pretty good run there in the mid eighties. Actually, yeah you did. I was pretty I mean, I'll be and Roth and the one. If you're talking about guys that don't get any credit for that era,

I think Houstad underrated. But the bowler who was probably the second or third, if not the best bowler for the years I was on tour was Wayne Webb. Wayne Webb was just a killer. You let that guy have a sniff, you know. Pete was Pete. That was pretty easy to see, like the first time you see pee bowl. Marshall was Marshall, and Mark was Mark Alby was by far the best winner. We always talked about if one guy had to throw a ball for your life and the only goal

was hitting the pocket, who would you pick. Everybody in the eighties would have picked Mike Calby, right. He never it never looked different. He always hit the pocket for the money. He never gave away any titles. So the most clutch guy ever roled against, by far was Mike Alby. He was I lost. I think I lost him enough on TV to h I tell you this, this is the true story. I didn't get fine for this. This is a true story. Bowling the Firestone in eighty eight.

I think I'm on the show. I'm fifth. If all be strikes on the first shot in the tenth, he's second, and if he gets ninety's fourth, he's Stone nine. I kicked the ball return because I knew I had to bowl in the first match the next day, and I was like ohing four or five on TV against him, So I went off. When he got nine, I'd never get He laughed so hard he left the Stone nine and I kicked the ball return. I was on the next pair.

He wasn't even bolving me because I knew the next day he was going to send a limo to the hotel to make sure I wasn't late to be on the show, to get my ass kicked. And the next day I had spare Open, Double Open. He had the forensics and he just kept looking at me, shaking his head like if I bowl you, I just shoot to fifty. So all we had my number. He was the guy that beat me the most. What happened to Marshall He had a a I mean he had a really bad slump. That's all it was. Really Oh

it was reactor resident guys like me and Marshall. We were good when the balls didn't hook. Ron Palombi, I mean we all didn't go in a slump the same week. That's the serious guys. Ron Polombi, Tom Kritz, Deave Ferraro, myself, Tony Westlake. I mean we were all pretty good. Now. Then the reactor resin came out, and all of a sudden, guys that we owned, literally owned, were beating us. Because I could always make my ball hook. So when I caught a reactive resin,

I threw it really good, I big ford. Then I would move in and catch it and hit the oil and I'd leave a bucket. So everything I knew how to do was wrong. Then when I would miss five right, think through it like shit, I would strike. So my feedback was terrible, like, oh that was terrible. Whack just ripped it. I'm like, how did that not? Flat ten? That was her? I missed it on the bottom, so we didn't. So the reactive resin you can think about Pete. He changed his entire game. Nobody was better

from out throwing it hard than Pete. What if PD come back? Nobody's better at playing soft, throwing it from the left gut or to the right gutter and back of the Pete he literally changed his entire game. He should be in the Hall of Fame twice pre reactive after reactive, the most talented guy that ever lived. Pete. Ever, EJ. Tackett's starting to make in rows to that thing. And I don't need as much as EJ leads week in week out. Make the scores high, make the scores low,

make it in, make it out. The dude just strikes. And I was gonna ask him every single it's so amazing, and I was gonna ask you about that. Mark just looking at him from from an analytical standpoint or even a coaching standpoint, the things he can do with the bowling ball are ridiculous. The fact that he gets five hundred plus reverie one handed. How how how the thing his lower body? I mean, if you watch him hit a golf ball, there's some similarities, but he I mean they talk

about it in golf a lot. If you watch EJ. He uses the earth the best. He's he's driving out of his leg up like on a golf swing, he catches it max his hand night here if you're you know, if you're shooting in the sixties, like for a month, like he tells me something like, yeah, how was August good? I did? Had no scores with a seven in front? Because that mean I shot sixty year better, sixty nine or better every round. If you got that kind

of hand eye coordination, that's kind of like Walter. So his hand eye coordination hit a golf balls off the chart. So his ability to do things. So he when I watched him bowl and I've talked to him, he's he's got such unbelievable touch and he makes his ball kind of do the same thing from the same place all the time. So I think he just knows

how to He's got about six different ways of doing it. He can roll it, he can loft it, he can stay behind it, then he gets around it, then he gets up in the air, then he really gets around it. He's very very good at knowing which release to put on it from where, And I think he doesn't get a credit for maybe if Brett Speger should get the credit. He understands how to juggle his equipment pretty damn well, because there doesn't seem to be a lot of weeks where he

doesn't bowl good. So I think he's he's this era's version of Pete Webber. Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with that. And it's the best release I've ever seen for a long period of time. He just keeps leading tournaments. I mean, and you know I've been in person winning with world championships. When he gets it, it's on. I mean, it's that. So here's one for Reverie. How should you measure Reverie? I got Specto. I got a different take on Reverie. So there's three numbers.

Let's say we're gonna use EJ. What's his reverree right around five to twenty? Right? Yeah? What makes EJ special? The Spread release Spread, The Spread forget the front number. The front numbers are relevant. It's the spread. It's five twenty five, twenty five, twenty five, twenty five, nineteen five, eighteen five, twenty five, twenty. His spread is tighter than anybody else in the high revere. Because his spread is so tight,

he magnifies the front number because that spread so small. And he's got a five in front. That's unique. What does the average bowler have? Four eighty four forty four to twenty And guess what happens if EJ threw the shot down there and the revue went to five sixty? What wouldes ball do? It probably won't shoot, That wouldn't it. I was trying to give it to these wash out It won't hook. Oh who your revere goes up? Your ball doesn't hook? Says, I'm just using Specto numbers give I

give a thousand lessons a year on Specto and everybody has a revere. It doesn't really matter what the number is. If your reve rate's three forty. Frankie Lavoie was here at my training center. Well, the probably the best session I ever had. Somebody hitting their target three forty three sixty every shot. As soon as he hit three seventy five. He two pin or flat ten every time. Wow. If his reverie went down to three thirty, he went through the nose. Interesting, that's by Specto's numbers. Okay,

let me hear it on. Well, do you know you were talking golf before? So is this almost like this is going to be a reach? How the slower the swing speed, if your driver is a higher loft, you'll actually hit it farther rather than having a lower loft. Because I'm not a very good I don't know, because I feel like the way you're saying it is almost in conjunction with that, because because what happens when your when your reverie goes up, the ball doesn't slow down, right, so you're

pushing it through it rather than letting it know. I mean, every time I'm here and I've had the best in the world, I've had Chris v and aj and Barnes and Stu Danielle. You know, that's when Belmo is here. His revere was right at five forty and I asked my guy that was doing the Spectroo numbers, do we had Specto turned off the film, like how are the numbers? He went like this, like are they that bad? He goes, No, they're that good. How does he get

his break point? His revere to match every time? So that's like that's the first time, Like what happened? He goes and every now and then when the ones that come in light, his reverree goes up. We were just reading the numbers. We weren't watching the ball. I'm just reading them, like huh, And he goes in the one he threw, so the one is revere got down to like in the five tens, he big forward, Like that's completely backwards. When your reverree goes up, the ball has

to hook more. That's not how specto reads. So when you're watching tvve now on watch them see who has the best spread. At least I said what would have happened? Because I said he would have overcooked it? So at least that was half right. I gonna say, is it like for instance, when Chris Barnes leaves a two pin, was he like too clean at the bottom? Did his different? So he missed it on the bottom

when he left the two pin. When we started working together, he would get forward early and then he would come up in his in his because the way his grip is the way he catches it in front of him. He would catch it early and it would roll. It would get the ball to roll sooner, and his core would stand up at forty feet and he would get it. Because Chris is so acriate, his ball would get to the

spot where he wanted to hook. But because the corps stood up early what I call corner management, and his ball would get there and it wouldn't hook. So it's christ to do well. I hit my target. I just stone hit my target. I'm gonna be a little bit right. I'm gonna make sure I catch this one. They need big four because that one would get on the lane. When the ball lands by the foul line, bad things happen. If you want, like I have a my training center,

I have a Brunswick logo on one of my lanes. When the ball hits out between twenty four and thirty six inches out, your hand has to be behind it, and the ball farther hits out, the better you turn it. Later, when the balls hit down, your hand has to be on top of the ball to make the ball lamb by the foul line. So if you they can imagine a ball that's a circle, you draw an imaginary line north of south. If you throw it out, the cores on if

you're right hand and the cores on the right side. But if you make the ball lamb by the foul line, your hand's on top. The core has to lay down early before you see it, so the ball goes dead left, or you get it to your spot, but the core laid down on the wrong spot. There EJ. Tackett's ball, where's this cor land best core management on? Sure? His ball always lays down from the spot. That's why I'm in at the baker box. Everybody does about because bowlers

are trying to figure out breakpoint from the foul line. I'm trying to figure out breakpoint from the pin's point of view. The pins are the same place every bowing center in the world how they want to get hit. The USBC did the study six degrees of entry angle. So I'm like, Okay, where does EJ. Tackett and Jason Belmonti's ball's hook all the time. Let's go the two best of all time right now, their ball's hooked predominantly in the same zone. I can't make anybody in a world bowl like either one

of those guys. But if I get your ball to hook where their ball hooks, the pins won't know the difference. Now I go about a little different just because I have a unique setup and I get to see and on the strike seecret, I get to see the ball go through the pins. So when the ball goes through the pins, I get to watch all the solid tens. I get to watch all the flat tens. I get to

watch all the strikes. Here's one for you. Here's when spending too much time in a training center, when the guy's on tour, or anybody for that matter. Today had a guy the Revere at one eighty and I proved it. When you throw it really really good and the ball comes off five six, seven and forty five feet and you split the eight nine, what pin falls last? I'm gonna go with uh. When you split the eight nine? What pin falls last? That's the I'm watching on TV this weekn

Now it helps that I have slow mo. So what are your guesses? Come on, you got three guys, I'll give you two guesses. I'm gonna I have the falls last. He's not saying which one gets last? Which one ship? I'm gonna go the other, you're close, You're you're going, you're going the right way, Come closer. I'm gonna say the

head head, then head didn't really the head falls last. The headpinn spins, the ball paralyzes in the balls going through the pins, and then all the nine pins are gone, and then the ball goes off the deck and the pin last last. Watch simonbowl Wow all the time his headpin falls last. I'm not saying it didn't move. It's moving back. It's in the it's gonna fall. I've never I had one spin and stop yet close.

But if you I mean, I do it every day. People like which pin falls last, it's always the head when you do it really really well, because all it is is two triangles. The one, two, four, seven, and three six ten hit it right, they just domino each other. Then the balls get ever hit the five and there's the eight nine. Those fall over and the pin. The headpin's still there. It kind of fall, it kind of goes off where the eight pin is. It

spins off the deck. We see it every day watching on TV. Happened last week a couple times. I was watching the I'm a you know, I'm a bowling junkie. So I was watching the uh you know the bowl TV see it every time. Now I get to do it in slow motion. You got to train for it. But watch when you go bow league, when you when you dead nut one son of a bitch. My headpin fell last, but nobody ever looks for that. I feel like, Hi,

wow, that's my mind's blown. I thought the five chopping the ten and ten would be the last one the fall or I thought the same stuff. So we were here. One of the guys, you know, my my, my guy, Anthony Santos is my project manager, went, do you watch when Jason and Anthony's ball strike foot ball pins fall lest I'm like, what's got to be the eight of the nine? He goes, now it's the headpin, Like maybe my rack's bad. So I thought it was my rack at my training center. So they left, so I try to

watch. Everybody came in. I'm like, that's the craziest thing I've ever seen. Now, it doesn't happen every time you can hit flush and the headpin goes left. But a lot of times when you throte really good, when the pins look cool, the headpin spinning and it goes it's the last one to lay down is how I should say it. I guess well, no, I'm gonna watch powl TV tomorrow and I'm gonna tell you you're gonna watch. Yeah, I am, I'm gonna I'm gonna pay attention to that.

That's I don't know the reason. I'm just telling you it's a cool thing to look for. All I know is when people do that, invariably, that's the shot they turn around and say, Coach, that's the one I want to throw every time. And I'm going, hey, did you know what pinfill last weak hes talking about? Like, watch the one you like the best. That's the one common thing all all the people to come here, all the different styles. So it's just a weird thing that when

you watch it, or the revery thing, it's about the spread. The tighter you make your spread. If you're four twenty four, twenty four, twenty four, twenty, you're gonna be a good bowler because that makes your ball hook and slow down at the same place. And now bowling's all about getting your ball to face up in the right place. The only way to do it is have a consistent reverie. So the tighter the spread magnifies the front number. Wow, you're four seventy five, seventy five or seventy five.

That's seventy five makes that four. Big jacket has been able to magnify that five by a spread being so tight, and that's why you're one of the best in the in the game. As far as coaching, Yeah, I got a unique setup and I just like to study. If you get all this data, you've got to do something with it. You got to keep looking and trying to find different ways to and it keeps me. I'm

not bored. Yeah, it really is. It's badass, and it's thank god we have somebody like you and and people like you that give that many shits about the sport. It's absolutely fantastic rob it. I mean, it's all about what the bowlers. It's all about how the bowlers react to it. And they're like, wow, I said, yeah, you you use the lane right, you threw it correctly, the sequencing, how you're the ball, you're you know the lanes, the lanes built sixty feet. The

first forty five feet are just accuracy. The back fifteen feet's the shape. So I look at your arm from your elbow to your fingertips of sixty feet. Your form is way more important than your hand. Your form has it the front target, and your hand hit it creates the back shape. So the sequencing of your release has to match the sequencing the lane. That's the way you have good ball shape. Everybody throws it good, nobody returns it early. It says, oh I hate that one. No, we have

feel. So you've got to get that to come off your hand a sequencing and then when your core lays down the right spot and goes to the pins the right way, that's what happens. So everybody, everybody feels the first one because they want to. There's two fields in bowling. When it comes off your hand, oh that's good. And then when that ball at forty five feel like somebody kicked it, that's the second field bowling, and invariably

that's the one you strike with. So that's my video on the one handers is all about how to create the first feel, where to create the second feel from because every great shot has two feels. That's you know, every every show we learn something new, and it's just you've taught us many money less it's it's amazing hot much we don't know about the sport, and we'd love to have guys like you come on and break stuff down on a molecular level, just just so you know, we can get a better understanding of

the sport that we love. And every and every coach sees it completely different. Right, There's no two coaches that see it the same. We all we're all trying to find a way to communicate to the people we coach to get to get them better because my job is, you know a lot of times, because I do charge a lot, Like today, I had a guy came in. Guess what he said, I get it at least three times a week. You're the last. You're it. If I don't get better with you, I quit, I'm done. You charge, you know

you charge what you charge. I'm fine, I got that happens every day. It's a big deal. Let's go. I'll have you fixed in fifteen minutes. How do you know, because that's what I do. I mean, and it's I've never been I've never been stuck. I've never like, hey, here's your money back. And there's always a reason why things don't go well. There's a reason why I guess that you know what I've never had to ask a bowler to do because I probably because I charge so much.

I've never had to ask a bowler to try hard twenty five thousand lessons. They all try hard. So if you're giving you your hundred percent effort, to me, that means you don't throw bad shots. There's no such thing as a bad shot. If one hundred percent effort, it may not be the right effort at the right place, but it wasn't as bad as when you don't try. If you don't try, I'm not your coach. If you're gonna wine, I'm not your coach that way. And they're getting

what they paid for too. Like if you're you're you're definitely getting what you pay for. Someone charges a dollar an hour. Clearly you're not getting the best of the best. So I mean, I guess you know in this my golf swing, I'm gonna dedicate. If I'm with a golf instructor that say you're caliber, I'm gonna give them my all on every shot for sure.

That's gotta be one of the like like the quiet cool things about what you've done with coaching is because you know the bowlers that come to you legitimately they're all every single time. But you give me JP you work my camp. Was there anybody there not into it? I mean they were. They were every day I got on the microphone. That's enough, you've bowled too

much. Go home, go over. I've never seen a group of thirty people and then they're asking me, Hey, if we want to come back eight o'clock, how do we get into the to the how do we get into the kingpin room? We want to go bowl at eight o'clock? Like, the people are nuts. I look at pay for lineage. It's a big number. Is I know how many games you bowlder? And this is me. My average group isn't like a bunch of twenty year olds. Now, the two anti camp, they were kids. My typical typical camp.

The aggregate average age is forty five sixty. They can't. They're just bowling non stop all day, every day. They're fanatical. That's what's cool about camp. But people like about it is if you come to the room, there's thirty five other people in the group that love bowling as much as you, and you've got seven coaches that love it as much as you do. So that's kind of the cool thing of what my camp does. But I get it. People try hard, so I've never had to ask anybody to

try hard. So if I thought of it that way, like if they're giving me a one hundred percent effort and they're not giving the right result, that just means we're not doing the right thing. It's not that they're throwing I don't like the word bad. You didn't throw it bad. You didn't throw it the way you You didn't get the result you wanted. Let's figure out where it went wrong to get the right result. So that's a different way of looking at it. I don't like saying they throw it bad because

they're trying so hard. That's true. You won't discourage anybody, especially when they're you know, put somebody down with how you're handing you money. You're telling them I'm stealing from his brain. And just in just a niety minutes, we got to do around. We got to do it around to nationals, just like Gulfinger knowledge of Yes, that's absolutely awesome. Rob book this guy again. Oh guys, I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm good at talking. I've been I've been around, I got a million of stories.

Not as many as your dad, but I gotta you're good at being you. Is what it is. You're definitely good at being you. Hence the the the essence of straight up five. We want like a real conversation and a real personality and not I mean whatever. You know, I get it that people have to like, uh, you know, be an ambassador sometimes, but even like like we're saying, like beg, just let it loose,

cut it loose, and it was it was freaking wild. And that's that's the idea of this show, the seriousness that was portray clearly, but uh no, it was, uh this is this is super fun and uh Jesus like I couln't even understand what he was saying, which makes it even that way. Hours, fifty minutes just flew by, and there's so much more we get into. Next time we have you on Mark, we'll we'll we'll title it story Time with Mark, because I do want to hear your

your stories of of your time on the road. And that's it. We we go every single one of them. I'm sorry, I keep looking on They're always the same thing. I just kind of the bar returned and got my way air. I'd say something I shouldn't say and just but I never thought nothing of it, because as mad as I got, as soon as I was done bowling, I was never upset, all right, I got

mad, what are you gonna do? Because in basketball, I mean I was always I could get mad, get technical foul or whatever happened, But then I had to run back and play defense. So all that anger was, you know, spent somewhere else. So by the time the quarter was over, the coach like, what were you mad about? What are you talking about? I don't even know what you're talking about. Bowling was so slow for me that I had nowhere for the energy to go. I didn't.

I didn't understand how to burn the energy. I was way too up and down. But that's you know, that's part of why I probably reis why I bowl good, because I was always in. I was always, you know, I remember being done. How about bowling a lot? I remember being done to the finals so many times? Twenty four games in match play. I made a run Friday night, I get to like seventh, and I looked at Houston. I'm like, why can't we bowl twenty four more? Right now? Just twenty four games? No breaks, I'll run

them. I'll just I'll wear them out. These guys aren't basketball mean, especially when I was my early twenties, I played basketball. We ran and we ran and we ran. I never got tired, so I was always wound up. So that was, you know, the hard part. The fines were all. I should have got more I was. I was not.

I was nuts. Now, I mean, do you find that it's impressive how the guys can keep their calm and their demeanor and like, I mean, you know, each personality is different, like this may shine, but I'm a little high strung myself, so I know, I know, I'll let you drink that in for a second. But no, but like I mean, it does it doesn't, Steve, are you like, man, how did that guy not get pissed? He just rang ten ten times

in a row? Like God, he don't see him there either. But if I could have, if I could go on tour now I heard, you know. I went to Sports Iy College and my last year I was actually doing early good. I think I cashed seventeen eighteen weeks in a row. I got to Sports Eye College and she made huge in roads about why I got upset and how I shouldn't be getting upset. But then I read a thing. I'm a big nick Foaldo guy, So I was reading it about Faldo, who actually had a temper. And so his big thing was

he got kicked out of a tournament. His dad made him stop. So he's one of the old guys. Said, when you hit a shot, no matter how good or how bad it is, before you react, take three steps. And then once you've taken three steps, after he hit the ball, if you want to get mad, get mad. And so I did that when I started. You know, I started bowling more. When I got done, I'm both my son. So now I throw a shot and I leave a ringing ten, and I turn around and take the first

three steps back on the approach. By then I don't want to be mad. So if I would have known that, because I would always react to the situation, ringing ten, solidate, whatever the case may be. In my I was, I was so quick to react. If I would have taken the three steps, then I could have been closer to Dave. Dave was like, this is my job. I threw it as good as I could. I got nine. He would get nine, and immediately his brain

would flip. My job is now to make that spare. My job would be the bitch and complain like I was the only person in history of the solid ten. You know that kind of stuff when you're mature. If I would have known how to take three steps and focus on the next shot, I think my career would have been much better. It had been way more boring. But you know, how to save a couple thousand of fines. But yeah, I wish I could have gone back and do that different.

I'm not. I'm not proud of the fact that I did that. It's a good story. It costs me a lot of money, not the fines how to think. Yeah, but you're also I won't say job career, but you kept a lot of mechanics, you know, working. Yeah, I never really I never really did mean, I never did real I never did real damage. I never broke anything like that. So no vent bolts or nothing like that. No like cave. I mean, that's why I would get probation with any game. I'd be back now with any game.

Mark you even said your probation was your three steps, because that was the only way I knew I wouldn't go off. Because I don't have a job. I mean nice, nice mental picture that was, Huh, if I might, if I'm really in trouble, I won't get in trouble. What do you mean? Hey, look man, some people collect stamps, so look, you gotta do what you gotta do. Mark Baker, the all time leading fine leader in the history of the people. No, there were

guys. I just I had a short career. I would imagine Marshall. Marshall gave me a run. I bet he did. Marshall was worth the price of admission. I'll tell you what though. He was fondable, like Milwaukee the boe Milwaukee got in the first early eighties. Every day worked for Miller got him for free or something. The bar it was a two sided joint, and the bar a little bits on the lanes. There was free beers involved. And Marshall was such a polarizing figure that when he would bowl

match play, when he would split, they would cheer. So most guys would get pretty down. Not Marshall. Then the next game he'd go spare six begger and he would stam at the foul I and yell, I don't hear you now? He would yell at the crowd. Well, then you had to make sure when you bowled Marshall, they had the little hangars where the coats go. You had to make sure you kind of sat in that little cubby hole, because sooner later in every round a beer come firing out

of the stands. At Marshall, you had to make sure you didn't get wet Boone, Homan, Oh, Marshall, Marshall, Pete, maybe Tackett, Belmont, Simo combined. Those are the guys Roth in his prime. I would have paid money to come watch Marshall. I paid money to watch Mark Roth winning. I watched him winning Norwalk. The most cool thing I ever saw in my life was Mark was Mark Roth winning it in Norwalk for three titles in a row. That's what got me into being a pro bowler.

Wow. I paid money to watch these guys both with two bays. Norwalk has that funky fust, lays this way in the lanes this way, and Mark hold. He bowled a legend from southern California named Bobby Fleegman for the title and Mark Mark was up by one pin. There were no TV shows. Mark's on the left flane. They get their four warm up balls in each lane, and he has to finish on the right lane all four shots and warm up miss the pocket. All four shots in the game miss

the pocket, strikes every shot on the left lane. Fleegman needs a double to shut him out. I think I'm not quite hazy. Larry Gray would know. I think Bobby got the first one, let the ten pin and made it, and he thought he thought he won it to twenty one, but he shut you twenty. So Mark hasn't struck on the right lane and warm up more of the game. Now he needs three in the tenth to shoot you twenty to tie the game. He's ahead by a pin to win.

He hasn't been close. He threw three of the fastest shots I've ever seen thrown, and they each kip going farther than the lane and going faster, And he just threw three shots, a real flush, and the whole crowd just stopped talking. Oh and then the roof came him off standing ovation I came home my mom, like, forget basketball, I just saw. I just saw the coolest thing in sports to this day I've ever seen was Mark Roth throwing three in the tenth and Nora walk to beat Bobby Fleiegmann.

So that will always be mind. It's that moment, man, it's that moment. It's it's fun that you have that moment. So Rob taking away, But the last question for me, did you ever expect somebody to throw a gutter ball against you to lose? Never thought? I mean, Bob was hooking the ga, he was playing the gutter he was. He was hanging it on one too. Did he missed by one? Yeah? I mean he came out I had that match one and he you know, he had three in the tenth to make me mark, but he was he was

pretty much hanging it on one too. That one. He I think he just you know, Bob, Bob didn't miss it at all. He pulled the holes out of that one. And he came up just a little early now that I watch the tape, right, he just got right aboard, not any different when del through it, and they're just you know, when you're playing one and you missed by one, it's a bad result. Bob I was more yeah that he just piped it in there, and it was like it took me a while to figure I'm like, I just I just

was too much of a kid. Like so he picks us up and he strikes. He shoots one ninety. I'm shooting two twenty clean. Oh my god, I've won. I kept doing the math, and the math kept coming out way too good. The math kept coming out on my side. I'm like, wait a minute, they're gonna give him shot over. I'm doing this in my head like and then I'm like, oh god, I won. And then the nice part when the show was over the first person after Bob to congratulate me was Don Carter. Hey, kid, congratulations,

I'm glad you won your first dial at my house. Kind of hard to beat that Don Carter class act. Great guy. Always asks us how do he make the ball hook so much? My ball never hooked. Yeah, you don't worry about it, Don, It worked out okay for you? It worked out okay, Don, I've seen your house. I see, yeah, you're okay. But he was always he was one of the older guys that really liked how the younger guy's bold. Don couldn't have been a

nicer man. I got lucky. I hang out with Dick Weber, I hung out with Earl I hung out with Don car These are the who's who bullying. They were all great guys. They really really were. Now I think like Norm Duke has turned into the the Dick Weber of this generation. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, and he's got that much game. He earned our re accolade he's ever got And Norm's just a good man, right absolutely. Earl was my he was my idol growing up as a lefty. So

uh, I'd like to hear some Earl's stories. That's some we have you on. But anything you want to plug Mark, I know, I put the the link video would be great, guys. It's it's you know, it's doing very well. It's you know, if you give it there's a little preview if you give it a chance. I know, in this day of free of YouTube, it cost a few bucks, but a lot went into making this. This was a year of my life. The two ended thing, especially for any two enters out there where there's not a lot there.

I mean, Jason Bellmaney is the best two enter ever lived. He he he started. All his fundamentals are sound. If you start bowling like Jason Belmany, you're going to be a really good bowler. And the one handed one, I mean I did it for this. It's six minutes, it's free. He just can click on and watch a senior section. But Dave houstd that's that's gotten great results. And then Danielle and Chris and Dave

together on the one handed. Like I said, I tried to convince some new terms, try to explain how to create those two feels a little different. So I think both videos are unique in each other. And Curtis von Krueger did the editing and Anthony Santos help me with it. We put our, we put our, we put a lot of effort into this. The pros couldn't have been better, from Jason and Anthony to Danielle. The pros were magnificent for two days. They were all on top of it, professional,

beautifully done. So I'm very proud of the of the project. And if you want to take a look, I appreciate it. I put the link in the chat on YouTube and Facebook and you can go to Vimeo and look up the games changed by Mark Baker. Also go to Mark Baker Bowling dot com learn more about Camp Bakes And yeah, we appreciate you having on here, Mark. Fantastic stories and some great lessons that you gave us. Just shows how good you are and how much you love the sport. Watch

those right that hipin falls last We're gonna watch. We're definitely gonna watch. Right there, Mark is also watching Simon. You'll see it a lot. Mark was also gracious enough he's gonna give us a free code for his lesson on Vimeo for either a one hander or two hander. Uh any anybody that was here in the chat tonight on YouTube or Facebook or eligible, Johnny will pick the winner tomorrow. We'll send you a message with the code and let

you know you one. So we do appreciate you very very kind of you to do that. All right, guys, all right, have a great night. Mark, thanks for coming on to the show, and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Thanks Mark a great Thanks. Bro.

Wow, isn't it crazy to talk to that kind of a coach and like like everybody knows what to say, what not to say, but the fact that he goes out of his way to enter somebody else's world every single time he steps up there twenty five hundred however many times a year he says he doesn't or it's that is we need like at least fifty more people like that'll

save the sports, that'll save the skills just great. And even like the comments now after after two small hours, you know, everybody wanting to that. That that just it's why Mark Baker is who he is. That that's all there is doing. I never have any you know, hopes of how the show is going to go whenever we have somebody on and talk to somebody's the first time. But it's just another banger dude. Every gets we have

on the show. It just shows you the quality of people not only that you're associated with, are associated with the sport of bowling, and Mark is one of those, and every show just they're all just real people, dude, just like you, me and everybody watching. Like he was so constant, like and when you know your ship with it's literally like talking to Tiger's caddy. It's like it's it's you're you're talking to somebody who is literally the

guy that the best in the world go to for help. I've been thinking about that. I mean, just that in itself is crazy, Like they go to this guy for help and they pay a good amount of money, which he said, He's like, I'm not gonna why am I gonna charge a little bit? He's not people wasn't saying he charged. He's and that's because he's the best at it. He's like the real Tomato ketchup. He's the real to nothing but the best, to nothing but the best. Rob.

What's my Twitter? That doesn't do? You want a good job? I do? No, No, I have somebody things peace you get if you want to follow us on X or Twitter, whatever you want to call it. Now you could follow me at rad rob Gaming. Doctor Ocho is the d R o Cho and Johnny Jr. Is at j P j R zero seven. You can also because my arms are better. They did they fantastic? Johnny. I had a chance. He's the product yet, yes

I did. He's not at Liberty. All I did was I used the crop preserver just to see if, if you know, my balls reacted the wrong way, and they didn't. And they I think they smell nice. You know, it's it's a step in the right direction. Smell. He has. He hasn't been yoga. He hasn't done yoga enough to get that kind of flexibility. So what's d DP yoga kicks in and remember March.

The week of March third will be announcing the winner of the free bowling ball courtesy of your purchases at uh Manscape using the code for straight up five, which is straight up there it is blow your screen off your balls for the team. Let us know what his ball smell like. Oh, Baxter, we wrap it up. I'm gonna drive an hour homes man. That sucks, all right, guys, thanks for joining us tonight. Thanks again to Mark Baker for having him on. We're gonna have him on in the future.

Scratch and Sniff. I love Mike McGlenn. He always he always lights up the room. Ken Schneiders, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Thank you. Chuck. No Impissole the Week. This week, our show went a little bit too long, and we'll have plenty to do next week. I think we we're gonna have three candidates for the Empissole of the Week next week. Thank you. Now, Troy a resident US Champion. Thanks Troy. Yeah, we got to get a

shirt. Just fuck docs them. We'll be back next week guys for episode what we Do one O six And we still have a lot to talk about in the world of the PBA. Right now. Uh, there's actually something I want to get into A report by wriggles today of how horrible Bullerro is at promoting anything. Uh and and oh hold on, hold on, wait, wait, wait before we go, before we go, hold on, where's my picture? I want to show you something. I want to show

Mark this, but I completely forgot. Uh hang on, is you eating Popeyes with like Louisiana Cat? Such an asshole? O Joe? Here. I want to look at Mark Baker stats on PBA dot com. Nothing. Apparently he's sixty two and he's a right hander. That's that's all that's reported. He did well, he did say he wond so they probably took that picture in nineteen eighty two and kept it. He literally had probably show that's a good point, that's a very good point. But they won't show his

face. That's yeah, he'd be a lot wider, he'd be more, a little more lower tapered, a little more like more like you know, ej. But anyway, all right, come on, I gotta drive home. All we got to go, guys, we'll see next week. Thanks for being here. Good Night, everybody, Fuck you, Doc Sullivan, tank you, Mark Baker. Good night, everybody, see a peaks, see a balls route, good night. Thanks for listening to this edition of

Straight Up Five with Johnny Petreklia Junior. You can follow the show on Twitter at straight Up five Pod, Follow Johnny Junior at jp j R zero seven, Follow rad Rob at Rad Rob Gaming, and follow Doctor Ocho at d D r oho. Got a question for Johnny, Send your questions to Straight Up five Podcast at gmail dot com. We'll see you next time for another edition of Straight Up five with Johnny Petreklia Junior, right here on the Red Rob Radio Network